Thread 213811343

Could the Spanish empire have actually conquered China or was it never really possible?

They were planning on using divide and conquer tactics like they did in America

no because the chinese weren't going to drop dead after being exposed to european hygiene practices

>we could have had chinitas the same way we have latinas
VGH

>>213811392

Spanichink hybrid girls would have been solid

>Empresa de China
We were so entrepreneurial back then. Liberalism and socialism were a mistake.

>>213811392
You only think about rape?

Both China and Ancient Mexico had similar if not outright identical modes of production, i.e. asiatic mode of production

However, the chinese had a superior elevated form, due to the fact of them possessing metallurgy & wheel-based transportation (which didnt exist in mesoamerica/andes only in very limited form)

Thus the gap between European feudalistic mode of production and chinese asiatic mode was not as pronounced as european feudalistic and mesoamerican/andean asiatic mode of production

Thus I dont think the Spanish Empire could had conquered China.

Unless they became the new dinasty and rebranded as Chinese like that Manchu, no.

>>213811343 (OP)
No
China was significantly more developed and had stronger central governance than the native kingdoms in the Americas

>>213811392
Devuele el loro, Juanito

>>213812119
No.

>>213811993
>Thus the gap between European feudalistic mode of production and chinese asiatic mode was not as pronounced as european feudalistic and mesoamerican/andean asiatic mode of production


Notice that it took capitalist Britain to actually conquer India & China

Only steam-powered machines could conquer these gigantic countries

>>213811993
>>213812115
>Some poor manchu horse riders peasants took easily over all of China but the Spanish empire with he strongest army and navy at the time wouldn't be able to do it because i'm retarded and i eat crayons for breakfast

>>213811993
Marx and Engels eventually dropped the "asiatic mode of production" thing you fucking pseud

fucking kill yourself plebbitspacer

>>213811343 (OP)
>Conquered
Yes
>Governed
No

>>213811343 (OP)
Maybe if Nobunaga hadn't died so soon they would have got a foothold in continental east asia with the conquest of Korea.
But I don't think it would have worked as it was written anyway.

>>213812660

They didnt

Only latter revisionists would try to "debunk" AMP, with no avail

Ming China was a powerful centralized state with a large and advanced navy, which was no stranger to clashing with encroaching European powers, including Spain, at the time. The Spanish Empire was already a declining power by the end of the 16th century, and the Ming Dynasty would last until 1644 and be replaced with the even stronger Qing Dynasty—until the early or mid 1800s at least.

>>213811343 (OP)
No sé, pero una vez le lamí el coño a una chinita y fue la primera vez que lamí un coño agradable al paladar. Creo que es porque no sudan o algo así. O igual era una chinita limpia y yo estaba mal acostumbrado a lamer coños de chonis y panchitas del tipo pordiosero e higiene mejorable. Por cierto se enamoró de mí pero yo de ella no así que estuve una temporada haciéndome el enamorado hasta que me cansé.

>>213812606
Those manchu riders were in the right place(directly next to China) and right time (1 in a century time of political upheaval), Spain half a world away couldn't do what they did. Also, the Manchus becoming the rulers or China required them to Sinicize themselves, they adopted Chinese language and Chinese culture, they became Chinese, which is why the rest of the Chinese accepted them, even if Spanish conquistadors managed to conquer China (and that's a big if), unless they Sinicize themselves the Chinese will see them as foreigners, "barbarians", and they'll rebel constantly.

>World population is now 2.5 billion Latinos

Holy fuck. Just imagine. 1 billion more Latina haps.

We were ROBBED of this future.

Why China and not Japan?

>>213812606
I also forgot to mention, China was immunised to the Eurasian diseases of the time, so when Spanish Conquistadors arrive in China, there won't be the epidemics that occurred in the Americas, where 90% of the Native American inhabitants of an area would be killed by Eurasian diseases.

>unless they Sinicize themselves the Chinese will see them as foreigners
Would have been kino.
>>213813884
Check the map again.

>>213811343 (OP)
Still embarrassing defeat for Malacca

>>213813884
Japan was a separated project. It was why all the important clergy during the Sengoku was spanish.

>>213811993
desu Chinese state was far more efficiently run than feudal Europe. That's why Prussia who adopted their model was so successful later on.

Most elite Spanish soldiers (Tercios) were fighting in Europe in 10 different wars against those that protested about the holy trinity.

It would have been 2nd rate Spanish soldiers the ones that could have been sent to Filipinas or China.

If there were no protestant wars, or anti-ottoman wars, or anti-berberism wars or some nations would had not being attacking our ports all over America, then we could have sent elite soldiers to Asia.

>>213811993
>>213812660
Dirty Trot

>>213813746
Yeah this. Spain *maybe* could have pulled it off, but it would have slowly made the entire Spanish Empire an extension of China instead it vice versa.

It was an absolutely impossible mission, and rejecting it was the best option. Spain should have devoted all its efforts to conquering all of South America and as much of North America as possible, and continued the Reconquista throughout the Maghreb with the help of France, Portugal, and the Italian states.

>>213814559
>It was an absolutely impossible mission
Cuck

>>213813746
Also because a third/half of the imperial army defected to them as the Ming crumbled.

>>213811392
Global demand for white cock would rise 5000%

>>213811343 (OP)
>stage 3: conversion and miscegenation
VGH

What covld have been…

>>213811850
It was consensual

>>213811343 (OP)
There are way too many chinese people to mix race with them en masse like spaniards did with precolumbians

>>213811343 (OP)
too optimistic, nigpaniards were misled because the Philippines was a failed shithole with no leadership, and even that foothold in Asia was extremely costly and dangerous

>>213811343 (OP)
they tried and got beheaded by Han BVLLS

>>213815355
It never started, closest thing was the port they did in Taiwan.

>>213815336
I still cannot believe Spain got defeated by Cambodians while they were experiencing their shittiest time in history (except the khmer rouge)

>>213811343 (OP)
The world doesnt need spanish speaking asiatic mongrols THOUGH

>>213811343 (OP)
the Ming or early Qing would have bodied them in a defensive war, it was only by the late 1800s that the gap in technology and organization between Europe and Asia got big enough that Europeans could beat the Chinese

>>213813746
Spain was also directly next to China with Macao and Philippines, blocking the entire China coastline would have been easily done with the vast difference in navy power and would destroy Chinese economy, in fact Chinese economy was very reliant in Spanish silver at that point with an invasion through the south and manchus in the north Ming wouldn't have lasted very long, also this doesn't say but some Japanese daimyos aside from obviously Portugal and Filipinos would have joined the invasion too
Spain could have just used a Viceroyalty system akin to latinamerica and place a pro Catholic Chinese warlord in control of China or just capture the emperor and convert him to Catholicism as Spain expansion has always been through religion not annexation, obviously a full occupation would have not been possible but a vassal state with Spanish protection in exchange of taxes and convertion to Catholicism (Asians have historically been easy to convert) should have been perfectly doable
But then again for this to have happened the Spanish Armada should have succeeded and in that scenario a Spanish ally Catholic England would have probably been part of this too

>>213815570
It all comes back to the Eternal Anglo and his satanic master the Jew

>>213815570
This is still pretty infeasible and some of the info is wrong. I hope not all Spanish Empire irredentists are like you.

>>213811392
>we could have
you have nothing retard

>>213816385
>muh joos
>muh anglos
>muh leyenda negra
>muh we wuz kangz o algo
we are spics so cringe? China would've genocided spaniards if they tried anything both in the past and present, also imagine shilling for a dystopic future where china is filled with dysgenic spic moorish mutts that worship la virgencita instead of the world super power that it is today

moors never stood a chance against anyone except backwater spear chucking tribes, there's a reason they constantly lost to france and england

>>213817486
>there's a reason they constantly los...

ACK!

>>213817816
>>213817486
What a fucking ass raping
The British outnumbered the Spanish 7 to 1 in troops and they still got fucking massacred

>>213817924
>>213817816
you're not spanish sanchez you're an indio raped into existence by them

>>213816612
>0 counterarguments
nice useless take chink

>>213817966
Fats are facts

>>213817142
isn't your "country" pretty much owned by Israel?

>>213817486
The British definitely won the battle, the propaganda battle. Otherwise it is impossible to explain why the episode of the Invincible Armada is better known than that of the Counter Armada, being even more spectacular and being more decisive.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_Armada

>could 5 million people take over 100 million people
There's a reason why this was considered a LARP even by the people at the time

>>213818283
Around the late 1800s, when the British presence in India was at its peak (about 100,000 Europeans, most of them British), India’s population was roughly 250–300 million.

That means the ratio was about 1 Briton for every 2,500–3,000 Indians — a microscopic minority ruling over a vast population.

The imbalance was even bigger during the initial conquests in the mid-1700s, when there were only a few thousand British in the subcontinent.

>>213818368
India was a deeply divided subcontinent filled with religious groups that hated each other, China was a unified empire that spent more of the past 2000 years united than divided.

>>21381557
Those are remote colonies, not the spanish heartlands.
Ming pirate remmants managed to kick out the dutch out of Taiwan, the spanish would at best just make the Jurchen's take over of china a bit easier.

>>213818051
>>213815570
> blocking the entire China coastline would have been easily done
It’s generally accepted that the Spanish Armada had around 130-ish ships at this time period, even with allies ships who are willing to use their whole navy along with the Spanish to patrol the area and whatnot that is still a thousands of kilometres to cover with plenty of merchant ships being able to escape undetected.
> vast difference in navy power
They were about equal in this time period, with the Chinese lagging behind only in the mid-18th and 19th centuries. Even with gunpowder weapons perhaps the Europeans were ahead slightly but that alone isn’t enough.
> would destroy Chinese economy, in fact Chinese economy was very reliant in Spanish silver
True but trade goes bothways, the Spanish economy also relied on these Chinese markets to sustain itself and bought chinese goods too. I think it’s like how the US and China tariffed each other now, it would hurt both sides.
> at that point with an invasion through the south and manchus in the north Ming wouldn't have lasted very long
When will this invasion take place? why would the Manchus stop at where the Spanish conquered China when they still had much of their banners and parts of the imperial army and already established themselves as a dynasty in Manchuria called the Later Jin? They were fully emboldened to hold all of China. Anyways if the invasion were during the Ming’s collapse its fate is sealed already, it was likely to be suceeded by the Shun were it not for the Qing.
How successful would a naval invasion be? the battle of Macau the Portuguese successfully fended off the dutch while outnumbered despite it being a small tradepost.
> also this doesn't say but some Japanese daimyos aside from obviously Portugal and Filipinos would have joined the invasion too
I don’t think the Daimyos would lend much support when they would be more busy with the political landscape back home. I don’t know about Portugal.

>>213819042
That guy thinks having colonies bordering china is the same as the manchu heartlands bordering china.
This is your brain on the leyenda rosa.

>>213812660
That's not reddit spacing you stupid fucking wetback spic

>>213818082
Anything is better than having anything to do with Spain. They only brought misery here. The only good thing about this country is thanks to the British Empire.

>>213815570
Habsburg obsession with the Netherlands destroyed us all

>>213813249
>Nobunaga
It was Hideyoshi and if he hadn't been so hostile towards Christianity, he would have gotten a couple Portuguese ships, at least

>>213814031
>That's why Prussia who adopted their model was so successful later on


I dont think Prussia adopted the AMP.

Characteristics of AMP:

Centralized authority
Divinity granted on single person, who represents the state
Communal ownership of the land
Agriculture-based economy
Surplus value is extracted in the form of taxation on the communities

Prussia-Germany was chiefly speaking a capitalist economy, with semi-feudal relationships still existing in the country.

The main difference I believe existed between Germany/Prussia and other capitalist states such as Britain or Holland was the fact that the german/prussian bourgeoisie didnt carry out the popular revolution, instead, those who implemented capitalist mode of production were the landed aristocracy & the military bureaucracy, thus the military nature of the german economy in the XIXth & XXth, which was run as a top-down hierarchized structure

>>213813998
>Spanish
No, it wasn´t
Majority was Portuguese, then Italian and a couple token Spaniards
The Spanish were in the Filipinas

>>213818283
Fucking retards thought we would just sit back and allow them to ruin our monopoly. Their presence in the Filipinas was already in violation of the treaty of Zaragoza

>>213814253

That statue makes no sense

Stalin literally slaughtered all the old leninist-bolsheviks

Stalin was by far the most disgraceful thing to ever happen to marxism, he did more damage than any american reactionary state agent could ever do