Thread 213878409

>>213878409 (OP)
total annihilation of belarus bussy

>>213878603
Minsk in three days, please

>>213878409 (OP)
I couldn't find any sources on that aside some random Ukrainian blogs.
Maybe our whole vocabulary differs more, but by lexical similarity we're quite close.

>>213879205
The prolific use of church Slavonic places you lexically closer to Bulgarian, actually.
The numbers here represent the discrepancy percentages

>>213879565
I don't trust this pic. And as you can see it's not really that close to Bulgarian >>213879205

>>213879623
your pic compare the language as a whole though, not the vocabulary
Of course, Bulgarian completely lacking the verbal infinitive would instantly alienate it from other slavic languages

>>213878409 (OP)
I can't even verify this information because 99% of Ukrainians in Poland simply speak Russian

>>213879715
No, lexical doesn't compare them as a whole. It compares the vocabulary. But not the whole vocabulary.

>>213879804
a jak ty zrozumiv shcho ce ne je ukrajinska mova?

>>213879804
Makes sense, since most of them are from Eastern Ukraine

>>213879882
this would argument would work if I couldn’t read russian

>>213879906
It's fairly evident. Same situation here, either Russian or Russian with replacing Г with Х. I only met like two pure Ukrainian speakers and one dude who spoke Surzhyk the most strangest sounding mix imaginable.

>>213878409 (OP)
VULOME

>>213879991
Let’s assume this is true (it isn’t, Ukie language just is just more rizzful), is this supposed to be a wow factor after 160+ decrees banning Ukrainian language in the Russian Empire for 350+ years ?

>>213879969
>Лeкcичecкoe cхoдcтвo мoжeт быть иcпoльзoвaнo, чтoбы oцeнить cтeпeнь гeнeтичecкoгo poдcтвa мeждy двyмя дaнными языкaми.
>Лeкcичecкoe cхoдcтвo — этo тoлькo oдин из индикaтopoв взaимнoпoнятнocти двyх языкoв, тaк кaк пocлeдняя чacтo зaвиcит oт cтeпeни мopфoлoгичecкoгo, фoнeтичecкoгo и гpaммaтичecкoгo cхoдcтв языкoв. Cтoит зaмeтить, чтo лeкcичecкoe cхoдcтвo cильнo зaвиcит oт тoгo, кaкoй cтaндapтизoвaнный cпиcoк cлoв paccмaтpивaeтcя.

>>213880188
Forgot the part
>Haпpимep, лeкcичecкoe cхoдcтвo мeждy aнглийcким и фpaнцyзcким знaчитeльнo в oблacтях cвязaнных c кyльтypoй, cyдeбным пpoизвoдcтвoм, и гopaздo мeньшe в oблacти ocнoвных фyнкциoнaльных cлoв. B oтличиe oт взaимнoпoнятнocти, лeкcичecкoe cхoдcтвo мoжeт быть тoлькo cиммeтpичным для двyх языкoв.

>>213880179
Not wow factor and it's also fairly evident why that is the case because the vast majority are refugees or migrants from the eastern regions which were known to be predominently Russian speaking for years until the cards have turned.

>>213880188
>>213880224
We somehow didn't manage to have our language Polinicized to any significant degree as well Russified aside from swear words of course. English barbarisms are a more insidious threat, zoomers sometime speak a creole I am not comfortable with but maybe because I am old.

>>213880179
>160+ decrees banning Ukrainian language in the Russian Empire for 350+ years ?
Not sure about that.

>>213880179
>Let’s assume this is true (it isn’t, Ukie language just is just more rizzful)
Concerning this factor it is true and I work in a field where I have talk to a meet a lot of different people from different backgrounds. I know what Ukrainian is, I grew up in a slavic neighbourhood and speak fluent Russian as well as more or less polish but it isn't as good, I do know well how it sounds like, I don't need a translator to read ukie posts, speaking it although is still difficult, trying to learn it a bit on the side.

>>213880401
Look it up
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chronology_of_Ukrainian_language_suppression

>>213880485
This thing is the church stuck in their own head. It's banned only things related to religion texts. And the "canonical" one were on Old-Church Slavonic. I'm not denying the Russification in the 19th century.
Interesting that there is so little about Polonisation.

>>213880338
> English barbarisms are a more insidious threat, zoomers sometime speak a creole I am not comfortable with but maybe because I am old.
I fucking hate it and cringe all the time. They barely even know English, but replace normal words with English ones for some reason. Probably because it went popular or something.
One of the latest examples I've heard is someone saying pecepч (research) instead of иccлeдoвaниe/изyчeниe (issledovanie/izuchenie) in some youtube video.

>>213880739
Yeah it's very unusual had a cultural shock with it. Me mostly hanging out with people my age and education or older people I never really had to deal with it but one day doing my residency in some different hospital I went out to smoke with my young colleagues and they were talking their english creole there I felt like I was an alien.

>>213878409 (OP)
This data is probably far-fetched, Ukrainian is heavily diverse dialectally and you will always find some word in some Ukrainian dialect that is closer to Polish or Belarussian than to a Russian equivalent. Also Ukrainian has a lot of synonyms for one thing and usually one word is related to Russian and another - to Polish

Belarussian = noble language
Ukrainian = retarded oinker peasant speech

>>213880338
>English barbarisms are a more insidious threat, zoomers sometime speak a creole I am not comfortable with but maybe because I am old.
same here, when I hear 15yo teenagers here it resembles Indian or Filipino speech to me, they just go like 1 sentence in Polish, 1 in English + English exclamations and swear words.

>>213880338
>We somehow didn't manage to have our language Polinicized to any significant degree
Lithuanian in 18th century was super polonized in terms of vocabulary, simply it was artificially deslavized in 19th century.

https://lt.wikisource.org/wiki/1791_05_03_Lenkijos_Karalyst%C4%97s_ir_Lietuvos_Did%C5%BEiosios_Kunigaik%C5%A1tyst%C4%97s_konstitucija

>>213878409 (OP)
>>213881514
maybe it is also because Ukrainian is more archaic and rural and Russian i s more international and modernized, with more Latin, French and German terms.

>>213881701
Our names for months are the same

>>213881581
I always found the concept of calling a language or ethnic groups "peasant" as an insult really hilarious.

>>213881637
Litvin retards keep pushing their shit on us because we wrote our stuff in Ruthenian before.

>>213881701
>Ukrainian is more archaic
depends where, again, Ukrainian is heavily diverse dialectally, definitely the most diverse north Slavic language in this regard. And some of these "Slavic" words in Ukrainian (in opposition to Latin/Greek loanwords in Russian) were actually artificially created in 19/20th century, simply while Russian evolved naturally and naturally absorbed foreign loanwords, standard Ukrainian was a "designed" language (like many Slavic languages of nations that were only forming their identity back then) and its creators took the way of either choosing the most archaic/Slavic sounding word found in various Ukrainian dialects, or created a new word based on some Slavic root. Btw, many of these words exist in Russian dialects as well, just they aren't common in the standard language.

>>213881731
?
or do you use the Latin versions also?

>>213881932
I mean not using latin ones.

>>213881814
Sure, Lithuanian was mostly a rural language so naturally it didn't need to borrow a lot of Slavic words since it had already all necessary words for rural economy.
But the more advanced vocabulary, especially related to governance, was borrowed from Ruthenian/Polish, and only replaced with artificially created words based on Baltic roots in 19th/20th century. Nothing wrong with that, many Slavs did it as well (Czechs, Serbo-Croats, Bulgarians, Ukrainians).

>>213881868
Russians insist they don't have much if any dialects. Yet despite not speaking with an accent they can always tell that I am from a different region due to how and which words I use.

>>213881971
also, it's sometimes hard to determine what is a Slavic loanword in Lithuanian and what is just a common word for both, stemming from the Balto-Slavic community.

>>213881868
>Russian evolved naturally and naturally absorbed foreign loanwords
Not sure why these would be more "natural", using foreign terms because those language happen to be more politically prestigious at some point the is also artificial.
>either choosing the most archaic/Slavic sounding word found in various Ukrainian dialects
That's a totally legit thing to do, though.
>many of these words exist in Russian dialects as well, just they aren't common in the standard language.
Russians should also use them, then

>>213882009
>Russians insist they don't have much if any dialects.
Well, it all depends on perspective, comparing to historically decentralized nations like Germany or Italy surely Russian dialects are scarce and not much different from each other. But the perception of "not having dialects" usually comes more from the attitude to dialects (negative, they are seen as village peasant speech that should be something you're ashamed of) rather than lack of dialects in the linguistic sense. This attitude is typical for historically centralized countries with one clear "prestigious" standard language spoken by the royal court. It's the same in Russia, Poland, France and some other countries as well.

>>213882107
I personally enjoy dialects. We have quite a few here in Lithuania. Samogitian is barely intelligeable to me but sounds so unique. I myself have a most likely a Curonian surname for some reason which no one else has in this cunt. Funny enough it would roughly translate in to Latvian word but for some reason they don't have such surnames. I wish I could post it but it would insta doxx me because the first page results of search engines link to me.

>>213881943
Funnily enough we also have this archaic set of names for months, some even sound like the French Revolutionary ones But these are not used and we use the international ones instead.

>>213882073
>Not sure why these would be more "natural",
I meant that they weren't simply created words, but adopted. Well, I think it's a more natural thing to do to adopt a foreign word to describe a new thing/idea from abroad rather than try to construct a new word based on native roots that could describe this thing. I mean, in all languages it works like that so when a new thing/idea comes from abroad, it comes from the name from abroad and this name is used commonly, until the users of the language (or an institution dedicated to keep the language "clean") decide that it just sounds wrong and must be replaced with a native-sounding equivalent.

When it comes to months, remember that Slavic names for months are a bit artificial in this sense so primitive Slavs obviously didn't know the calendar in the contemporary sense. Their names weren't actually names for scientifically defined 30 day periods related to Moon phases but more like general terms for various periods of the year with a large degree of vagueness. You can see it to this day since let's say Poles, Czechs and Croats use the same words for different months, because as I said, it wasn't really something strict.
And this is why some nations, like Russians, when adopting the calendar in the modern, scientific sense, decided to also adopt the western names for strictly defined months - because it was actually something new.

>>213882278
I like how the names link to natural events. August universally being for harvests, some other month denoting the weather, others a certain animal being seen.

>>213882245
>I personally enjoy dialects.
I would enjoy them too if we had them I guess, we just won't change our history.
It's not coincidence that the only strong and still very distinguishable Polish dialect, so Silesian, survived in the region that was cut off from Poland already in the Middle Ages, so prestige of the standardized language spoken by the Polish royalty, nobility and church did not reach them and they preserved their own version of language.

>>213882442
Ok, there is also Goral dialect that is also still distinct but again, that's because people living in the mountains were isolated from the rest of the country/people and lived their own lives, the influence or even actual power of the Polish royal court barely reached them and was often in name only.

In the most territory of ethnically Polish Poland that was under PLC, convergence of dialects and then their replacement by the standard language spoken by the nobility and priests was undergoing rather rapidly. Probably it was also accelerated by the fact, that Polish standard language isn't just some particular regional dialect but a mix of 3 main Polish dialects (because, coincidentally, the capital of Poland and the Polish royal court moved 2 times in history, from Gniezno in Greater Poland to Kraków in Lesser Poland and then to Warsaw in Mazovia, and every time the language spoken by the royal court adopted some of the local linguistic features) which facilitated adoption of the standard language by all Poles in all regions as it was similar enough to each of the main dialects or didn't stand out too much.

>>213882644
I speak the standard highlander Lithuanian but when I meet a Samogitian, Suwalki, or a Šiauliai dialect speaking person I instinctively switch to using some of their words, they are always surprised that I am from Wilno and can speak Russian. Needless to say the encounters are always pleasant.

>>213883468
>they are always surprised that I am from Wilno and can speak Russian
isn't it taken for granted? i thought knowing Russian in Vilnius is just normal

>Suwalki
you mean those from Poland or those from Marijampole? How do Lithuanians from Poland sound to you, are they hard to understand?

>>213878409 (OP)
belarusians have their own language? I thought they all just spoke regular russian over there.

the standardized Ukrainian language bears no resemblance to the Ukrainian vernacular spoken anywhere in Ukraine. that includes Western Ukraine. actually literary Ukrainian is based on an eastern dialect of Ukrainian. But it doesn't matter since people in Western Ukraine will still use many Russian or latinate (aka, quasi-Russian, since Russian has many French and Latin loanwords) terms in everyday life that are not present in literary Ukrainian. Not to mention the fact that most central or eastern Ukrainians prefer altogether to speak Russian or a slightly Ukrainianized Russian

the reason for this is that the Ukrainian language was standardized by Russophobic Polonophiles who literally designed it so that they could point to the lexical similarity between Polish and Ukrainian and pretend they are not Russian. The same thing happened for example with Croatians who coined a bunch of random "Slavic-origin" words in the 1990s instead of using the latinate terms from standard Serbo-Croatian in an attempt to make themselves sound different from Serbs. Pretty pathetic

Clearly not true
By simple common sense all east slavic languages are more similar to each other than they are to... polish (?)

>>213883979
>the reason for this is that the Ukrainian language was standardized by Russophobic Polonophiles who literally designed it so that they could point to the lexical similarity between Polish and Ukrainian and pretend they are not Russian.
if that was true then why the hell would have these "Russophobic Polonophiles" chosen eastern Ukrainian dialects for a base for the standard language rather than just taking a far-western dialect that was most similar to Polish and least to Russian?

was listening to a podcast while on a run one day and they mentioned that ukrainian doctors never spoke ukrainian as they saw it as a peasant language and portrayed an interview with one doctor saying he'd change to ukrainian as some kind of huge cultural win

>>213884267
Russian language in Ukraine was pretty much what English was in Ireland

>>213884131
Because ironically at the time Galician intellectuals were largely Russophile (Slavic unity against Austrian imperialism, etc.) while the OG Ukrainian nationalists were mostly from the Russian part of Ukraine e.g., Shevchenko who was from Cherkasy

>>213884482
Shevchenko wasn't a polonophile

>nooo we say вiн, not oн
>MOSKALS CAN'T UNDERSTAND US! THAT'S 2 DIFFERENT LETTERS
nigga

>>213884281
Irish spoke english first then made up irish?

Ok, guys, I just wanted to chime in and say Old Church Slavonic is literally the written form of medieval Bulgarian. We invented the Cyrillic.
Thank you. Have a nice evening.

>>213884753
>We were the closest test monkeys to Greeks that's why we're relevant

Can East Slavs understand Russian or Ukranian or do the Slavic languages diverge after a certain point?

look at the cuck above me hahahaha he has to communicate in MY alphabet invented and used by MY ancestors lmao

>>213885152
You're not greek, you're a shit gypsy doe

>>213878409 (OP)
> be me
> russian speaker from birth, fluent in ukrainian since 10 years old
> both before and after 2014 russians always played same old story of "ukrainian is just an accent of russian"
> disagree with this, but always had it at back of my mind, because i know both languages and can't really compare
> stalker 2 released only in english and ukrainian
> many russian streamers decide to play ukrainian version
> no one understands shit of ukrainian language
> chat, any ukrainians, what does X mean

an another russian lie

>>213879623
Цepкoвнocлaвянcкий язык - этo южнocлaвянcкий язык, кoтopый oкaзaл cильнoe влияниe нa pyccкий

Укpaинcкий/бeлopyccкий - пpocтo дepeвeнcкиe языки

>>213885280
Once you get a grasp on how ukrainians make up words and general context, you can understand pretty much everything

>>213885293
>Цepкoвнocлaвянcкий язык - этo южнocлaвянcкий язык
You mean medieval Bulgarian, thank you

>>213885380
No, he meant old church Slavonic, not turkish

Everyone who uses Cyrillic ITT has been brainspermed by my ancestors

>>213881868
>some of these "Slavic" words in Ukrainian were actually artificially created in 19/20th century
What are you even talking about?
>>213884131
He's dumb, galician moscophilia practically died in late XIX century. In early XX it was much less relevant than "narodovets" sympathies.
>>213885293
Russian complex about villages (especially to defend your surzhyk-like language) is hilarious. Who were your ancestors, in your opinion?

>>213885293
>Цepкoвнocлaвянcкий язык - этo южнocлaвянcкий язык, кoтopый oкaзaл cильнoe влияниe нa pyccкий
Yeah, I know that. What's the point?

>>213885140
Yes.

>>213878409 (OP)
Is this how ukrainians are coping?
No way on earth is ukrainian closer to polish than russian

>>213887627
Grammatically 100% no, but maybe lexically?

>>213887894
that would be only possible for the standard language almost no one speaks in pure form
in real life everyone speaks some kind of surzhik where Russian words are definitely predominant

>>213878409 (OP)
Roughly speaking, Ukrainian is Russian grammar with Polish loanwords, the vocabulary as a whole might be even closer to Polish desu but can't say for sure. There are a whole lot of words that are identical in Polish and Ukrainian but completely different in Russian
The problem is that 95% of Ukrainians speak Russian IRL so even when people assume it's Ukrainian, they're actually just hearing regular Russian
Source: I speak Polish, Russian and have had some exposure to Ukrainian

>>213888012
>>213888128
You both are overestimate

>>213888408
He знaю кaк ceйчac y вac в хoхлaндe нo мoгy тoчнo cкaзaть чтo пoчти вce пoнaeхи из cнг в пoльшe - pyccкoгoвopящиe. Pyccкaя peчь бyквaлнo пoвcюдy, a yкpaинcкaя мoвa нaoбopoт oчeнь peдкo вcтpeчaeтcя