Thread 214502685

How did this happen? Latin had cases, why did the westies drop them?

wtf is a grammatical case?

>>214502711
Something easties made up to feel special

>>214502711
rosa rosae rosae rosam rosa rosa

>>214502719
Latin had 6 cases you absolute dolt

>>214502711
Who, whose, whom

>>214502719
Damn right, just ask any eastie how many iPhones can they buy with their monthly wage, and watch them collapse.

>>214502711
idk, some ooga booga shit

>>214502685 (OP)
>Portubulgariya

>>214502711
in the sentences
>this is mike
>this is mike's dog
the "mike's" is an example of a quaisi-grammatical case changing the word because of its function, in this case possession
in other languages thinks like "with" "of" "about" are connected with cases and change the noun depending on context

>>214502752
This is like trying to explain a 4 dimensional objective using a 3 dimensional shadow of it
>>214502711
anglos are permanently locked out of actually understanding the concept

>>214502881
>>214502903
cases lower a population's collective IQ
see for reference
>IQ of Western Balkans
>IQ of Eastern Balkans(Bulgaria)

>>214502685 (OP)
It's called the Chinkflation, Westoids are turning into bug-men

>>214502903
English is the perfect language, easy to understand with simple grammatical rules, yet can convey meaning very effectively. Much better than Hungarian, which is just an old mess.

>An idiot admires complexity, a genius prefer simplicity.

>>214502711
here's your grammatical case

>>214503091
Bulgarian is basically the English of the slavic languages
It's perfection manifest. You should learn our language...

>>214503115
I don't think care about any dying language, especially not Bulgarian which is like 80% gypsy at this point. Let go of your past.

(I'm aware that Bulgarians invented the Cyrillic alphabet.)

>>214502951
I kneel, Bulguranon

>>214503091
>yes I am a globohomo cocksucker, my own culture is retarded, I wish we were like America
>here's a smart-person quote to prove my intellectual prowess, I am so sophisticated

>>214503140
>80% gypsy
fake news
I haven't seen a gypsoid in 2 years

English should be the first language in every European country. Your snowflake language isn’t special; nobody cares. If you want to indulge in archaic stuff, do it at your leisure and don’t burden society.
English only.

>>214502903
english pronouns use real cases

>>214503156
This is how I imagine an ethnic Bulgarian. I think he only makes up 15-20% of the population there.

>>214503231
Literally everyone looks like this guy

I can’t even differentiate the hungarian from the bulgarian flag

>>214503231
It's the same with hungary, the non-ethnically gypsy population is getting g gypsified rapidly. The youth embraces gypsy culture and music.

>>214503154
Culture is completely irrelevant in 2025, nobody cares what your ancestors did 200 years ago. It's a waste of time and very inefficient.

>Yes, our culture is better because we put the spuckrfen first and then giazzunao second, not like the bromgels who put the giazzunao first and the spuckrfen second.

>>214503264
we are edin narod...

>>214503177
>>214503324
ok cool, but you're still a retard, could you leave my thread please?

>>214503271
>The youth embraces gypsy culture and music.
>>214503324
>Culture is completely irrelevant in 2025, nobody cares what your ancestors did 200 years ago. It's a waste of time and very inefficient.

So which one is it? Is it acceptable to get gypsified and have your culture replaced or is it not? Actually please don't answer, just get the fuck out of my thread, day 3 on the internet zoomer retards are painful, but when they are hungarian slavs in denial then severe retardation is guaranteed.

>>214502711
>>214502685 (OP)
We apparently have 18 and I don't know what the fuck are those either. It's probably some shit where we say a word with a slightly different ending and that's like super special or something because faggots here need to feel special even though most of our language is just a niggerlicious mix of German and Slavic words.

>>214503474
No, you used my mother tongue to bash westies, and I told you it's absolutely hilarious because Hungarian is an inefficient language that barely anyone could write or read before the 1800s.

>>214503540
There is a very big difference between societal and historical culture.

>>214503573
>we say a word with a slightly different ending
Yeah it's cases. The change can be done to somethign else other than an ending too.

>>214503597
This too lol. Hungarian was a total nigger ooga-booga language. Only the peasants used it and even they used German and Latin for anything half sophisticated.
Until the 1800s Hungarian literally didn't have a word for "thought". If you subscribe to the idea that language influences thinking then Hungarians were thoughtless creatures.
It's a fake language made up by language reformers. Being proud of it is like being proud of being Esperanto lmao.

>>214502711
brownoid language thing

>>214503833
>If you subscribe to the idea that language influences thinking then Hungarians were thoughtless creatures.
explains a lot of behavior in this thread
>It's a fake language made up by language reformers. Being proud of it is like being proud of being Esperanto lmao.
It's not just your language lmao, it's your entire identity, you are literally a bunch of Slavs who think they are some mongol tribe, literal insanity tier larp, and you wonder why your language makes fuck all sense, nigga you are all made up.
>inb4 no u
ok, try something else

>>214502685 (OP)
oh no no macedonia bros will be mad

>>214502685 (OP)
I speak with cases, so basically it functions as prepositions but at the end of the root word. We've dropped some cases (as evidenced by Finnish and Hungarian). It's older speech, it predates Indo speech, we are half Western European Hunter-gatherer DNA

>>214502685 (OP)
I think it's natural progression of most languages. The question is why Indo-European were so fusional and had such morphological complexity,. In my opinion fusion is hard and agglutinative languages just do it better. E.g. Japanese and its post-positional particles is cases done right.

>>214503888
>Basques are brown
Post hand, Antonio Jesús Jiménez Triana.

Damn what happened to those Hungarians who were shitting up the thread. I hope they didn't rope themselves.

>>214507232
the most intelligent and creative people come from countries with mixed analytic–fusional languages (English, German, Spanish, French)

>>214507232
>Indo-European
The myth that a group of completely unidentified men variously from the Ukraine, Pakistan or Caucuses invaded and killed everybody in Europe, somehow including the Basques, and then within a thousand years of establishing an empire all the languages of Europe developed and nobody could speak to another. This is in contradiction to all other knowledge of language such as how men in England can speak to an American despite nearly 500 years of separation in parts, and Arab from Morocco when avoiding his local vocabulary can make himself understood to a Qatari and the Slavs of course are another group more similar than they are different.

These facts are uncomfortable to Indo-Germanicists and they have no rebuttal other than "trust the experts".

>>214507557
I can rarely understand slavic words that're not Bulgarian or Macedonian(a Bulgarian dialect)

>>214507615
the average german can't even understand swiss german

>>214502685 (OP)
What is the optimum number of cases for a language to have? Is Finnish better for having one more case than Estonian? Does Slovakian suffer for having one less case than Czech?
Let us answer this question once and for all.

>>214507705
>What is the optimum number of cases for a language to have
0

>>214502711
Cases are where you alter a word to cram more information into it. In English that information is handled with extra words instead.

>>214507705
3 like modern spoken german. nominative, accusative, dative

>>214507705
15 is optimal obviously. No need to explain further.

>>214507705
One, mebbe one and a half.

There are so many other factors that I would put above grammatical features of languages as the basis or deep reasons for these cultures success. I do however quite like, when languages put most of their morphological complexity into verbs, like romance languages do. But don't tell me cases and grammatical gender are good. Especially not for German. At least in Slavic languages or say Sanskrit you can juggle word order and be very expressive, because of them.

>>214502685 (OP)
Are we easterns???

>>214507557
the printing press at large slowed down the divergence of languages by much. E.g. when Portugal became a independent polity in 11th and 12th century Portuguese and Spanish diverged, and most of it happened in a few centuries and slowed down considerably in modern era. The less connect, the less populous a population is the faster its language change and vice versa.

>>214507705
I think Greek has optimal amount. 5 is ok. The more, the more elegant the case formation has to be to justify the complexity overhead. At the very least possessive case is needed.

>>214507705
7

>>214507705
German has 4 which seems a pretty good amount. I had Latin in school and the additonal 2 were not something you need. The vocative is a meme in general and the ablative can be substituted with the other casus. Having no casus at all is unelegant.

>>214508936
we use only three cases

>>214507260
Fine

Ok but no one answered the real question

How come Latin countries, who had the biggest influence from Latin (a language with 5 cases) all dropped the cases in their modern languages? What's the reason behind it

>>214502685 (OP)

That's really cool. So Swedish is like germanic language without cases, and Bulgarian a Slavic language without cases. Does this mean they're easy to learn? I might give them a try on duolinguo.

>>214502903
Niggas with morphologically heavy languages vastly overestimate how complicated the concept is.

Did you know there are languages where affixes can be arranged in any order? Why can't your language do that?

>>214502685 (OP)
Must be weird hearing a Bulgarian speak as someone from a close by Slavic country. I bet they sound like cavemen to them.

>>214509663
Are you retarded?

>>214510092
no?

>>214510014
if you want to get the feeling, search for if English had Chinese grammar on YT

>>214510151
Obviously yes.

>>214509826
The synthetic to analytic progression is a well documented phenomenon

>>214510175
written standard german is a made up language. spoken german has only three cases.

>>214502685 (OP)
I don't even know what cases we have

>>214510205
most written European languages are made up, the dialectical forms retain original speech

>>214507705
The more the better. You have to case-maxx your language.

>>214510301
yup but nobody except autistic nordcucks who dropped their own language because their overlords told them to actually uses genitive in real speech. it's not a natural thing to do.

>>214510205
Stop hanging out with retards who ditch the genetive.

>>214510462
it doesn't exist in spoken german. it's only used by nordcucks who grew up without a real language so they have to imitate the fake written language. you got cucked

>>214510508
Leave your incest southern shithole.

>>214510551
imagine not being able to speak a real language. you are no better than those african tribes whose languages were made up by german autists

>>214502685 (OP)
All those grey countries have other kinds of contextual rules that create a gorillion variations of a word. It's the same shit no matter what you speak.

>>214510575
Stop coping and learn your fucking mother language, fucking ape. I bet you've never seen a university from the inside.

>>214510624
I don't care about the rules of some autistic prussian bureaucrat lol. I bet you drop the genitive in favor of the dative all the time when speaking.
>>214510624
>I bet you've never seen a university from the inside
I attend a real university, something that doesn't exist in the north

>>214510508
>it doesn't exist in spoken german
Trotz des schlechten Wetters
Is Genitiv and standard German people use in everyday language, you're just retarded

>>214510741
>I bet you drop the genitive in favor of the dative all the time when speaking
I don't. I'm pretty pedantic about it. I'm not leaving our beatiful language to decadent apes like you.

>>214510866
not in the area where people speak real languages. it's not real

>no grammatical cases
>no tonal language shit
>no gendered words
>verbs don't get all fucked up depending on if it's I/you/they/we/he/him
>no Polysynthesis like the Germans do

English is so easy
Truly the world's greatest language.

>>214510903
>beautiful language
standard german sounds ugly has hell. no wonder people make fun of it all the time. thank god I don't have to use it here.

>>214510968
Just speak Austrian at that point.

>>214510968
Swiss German aside, do German dialects ever get to the level where they're incomprehensible to other Germans?
I was listening to some Bavarian the other day and it's quite fascinating how much vocabulary actually changes - I think you'd still be able to figure out what that person was saying though.

When the Bavaria minister-president gives a speech, would he ever give it in Bavarian or is that considered too peasant so he'll stick with standardised German?
How about newspapers/books/etc? Does everything have to be standard?

>>214511116
they are just as bad as nordcucks. my area of interest is along the rhine up to the rhineland.

>>214508936
the ablative was the most used and basedcase in latin retard, vocative was retarded though

HRE is still alive

>>214511141
>ever get to the level where they're incomprehensible to other Germans?
Yes. My ex didn't understand incest Bavarians or Swabians. I literally had to translate it to her.

>>214511141
Cologne/Rhinelandish German, Moselle Franconian near Luxemburg/Trier/West Saarland, Swabian, Austro-Bavarian and maybe Palatine German can be incomprehensible if spoken by genuine speakers with some tempo. Younger speakers are more influenced by the standard so I doubt people will have much trouble. Newspapers and books are always standard. Everything else is just gimmicky. The bavarian minister president is Franconian, he wouldn't use that dialect in that way, but he if were to speak bavarian, he would probably do it on some festive occasions.

>>214511332
>Swabians
ay yo wtf

>>214510014
they sound like cavemen to us actually since they don't use definite articles

>>214510947
Kind of true. Orthography however is a bitch, especially for learners. But it's kind of good for me, since I had figured out IPA and various patterns based on etymology and most people won't do that.

>>214507705
the optimal amount is the amount you need to define object states in your language

>>214511332
kek you don't even speak a real language. some autists dictated their fantasy upper saxon language to you and you and your ancestors fell for it. now you have nothing

>>214511270
dialect map?

>>214511270
all dialects north of the red line aren't really used anymore

We almost got rid of the he/him distinction too, but people decided to put it on life support for whatever reason.

"Han gav han boken" (He give he the book) sounds fine in speech, but you write it like "Han gav honom boken".

>>214511541
>language is so unreal that it's considered standard somehow
Finally take meds.

>>214511853
and will you sound like a dork (>>214511332
) if you use honom in real speech? because that's absolutely the case if you use genitive in german speech

>>214511842
why did north germany successfully kill them off?
I assume geography and mountains
>>214511781
goofy niggas
how alien do laplanders sound to you?

>>214511950
>>214510301
any Italian will agree with me too

>>214511979
Nah, it's fine to use "honom" too. Just sounds slightly more enunciated.

>>214511842
Mostly because evrything abobe the red line stopped incest.

>>214511985
initially because their overlords from the east told them so. after ww2 it was pressure from the south to drop low german. /weak/minded people if you ask me

>>214507732
What the fuck

>>214510866
bad example lul, trotz originally commands the dative case (wem trotze ich), it is now used with the genitive due to overcorrection

>>214511853
*gave. Typo. Swedish is not that weird.

>>214512253
bodied that freak

>>214502903
he-him-his is just a straight up instance of grammatical case, not an analogy.

>>214511985
>how alien do laplanders sound to you?
well it kind of depends, Kven feels like it is 50/25/25 between Finnish, Norwegian, and Swedish
Mäenkieli (the Finnish dialect spoken in north Sweden) I can understand maybe 95% when spoken but fully when reading
other laplanders sound bit like American hillbillies sound to you

>>214502685 (OP)
Eh whatever

>>214511842
I grew up just slightly north of the red line and we very much still use our dialect.

>>214513931
where?

>>214513957
Borderland between central and northern Hessen

still don't understand what a case is

>>214514590
"France" in Russian language

Francija (France : subject)
Francii (of France)
Francii (for France)
Franciju (France : object)
Francijej (by France)
Francii (always used with preposition)

>>214502685 (OP)
Fake map
Hungarian doesn't have grammatical cases

It's funny because it seems less complex languages are easier to learn for non-Europeans and those countries are, for the most part, the ones that are more attractive to foreigners.

>>214512011
I agree with you
(I didn't read the thread though)

Cases a shit, I'm an analytic language enthusiast myself. Wish there were more analytic languages without tones like ancient chinese.

>>214514590
It's what you mess up when you say "me like pizza". "I" and "me" could be the same word, but you have to use one of them depending on context.

German isn’t more fusional than Spanish

>>214518133
The God has a plan.

>>214508296
>Especially not for German.
Rude

>>214502685 (OP)
>Latin had cases, why did the westies drop them?
A combination of different case endings sounding the same due to phonetic changes in the language and people using prepositions which make using cases to convey the same information pointless.

>>214502903
>anglos are permanently locked out of actually understanding the concept
not really. english pronouns have the subjective objective and possessive case. but in all other nouns they are formed prepositionally.

>>214503091
>An idiot admires complexity, a genius prefer simplicity.
an idiot admires quotes, a genius prefers his own thoughts.

>>214502711
it's a language thing that changes the wrods in sentences depending on the type of sentence it is, makes some sentences clearer and annoys elementary school children

most of the times when english is weirdly ambiguous a set of different cases would completely fix the issue

>>214503091
english is a functional language, but that doesn't mean it's a good language, it has a lot of issues like the ambiguities that pop up and require an additional set of words to clear up or how there are just no real pronunciation rules