Thread 214569045

the eu is the most antidemocratic union of oligarchs

>>214569045 (OP)
>the goburment is evil because it won't let me burn plastic o qualcosa cosi.

>>214569176
You Americans would be mad too if a bunch of foreign oligarchs forced you to buy a fucking electric car and renovate your house for energy efficiency reasons

Cletus do they even have mcdonalds in italy or are you left starving?

>defending the eu after what Germany did to you

Greeks are natural-born slaves

europe is a threat to democracy

>>214569045 (OP)
At least they seem to pass pro-worker and pro-consumer policies far more than our system does.

that the people participate directly in EU decisions (?) and that these decisions are the result of equal sharing (?) between governments (as if Italy or Spain counted as much as Germany and France!) and are also transparent, not opaque, is a lie. It is very difficult to argue that the public is able to know and critically debate what happens in the halls of Brussels. Only less than 50% of eligible voters voted in the European elections precisely because European voters know little or nothing about what happens in Brussels, and know they do not count in EU decisions.
The EU is not and cannot be democratic. As anyone familiar with the basics of political science knows, the EU, being an intergovernmental organization, is not and never can be democratic. This is the central point of a radical critique of the European Union, which, however, few intellectuals and politicians (unfortunately, especially on the left) recognize: the Union is not democratic by its very nature, because it is an expression of European governments.

>>214569669
The European Council, by far the EU's most decisive body, is composed of heads of government elected in their countries but not by European citizens. In practice, only the government leaders are in charge. The European Parliament is elected, but only on a national basis and has very limited powers: it can approve or reject laws only on certain matters. The Commission, which has an executive but also partially legislative role, is appointed by governments. The intergovernmental Union overlaps with democratic nation states and is immune from the social conflicts that are the essence of democracy. In practice, it is impossible to oppose EU decisions. Thus, the democratic institutions elected by citizens in individual countries are disempowered and deprived of accountability. The EU's decision-making power brooks no opposition (aside from street riots, like the recent ones by farmers across Europe). Hence the resistance and protests of the European people, skillfully and demagogically exploited by the more or less fascistic right. The Union does not have a real government, but has a system of “governance” very similar to that of joint-stock companies.

>>214569045 (OP)
europoors actually think they vote for the people that take the decisions at the european level
now that's hilarious

>>214569702
In particular, as is well known, the EU is governed by two main shareholders, namely the Germany-France diarchy, a diarchy currently in serious crisis and on the verge of disintegration. The EU is now leaderless.
The fundamental problem with this Union is therefore that it is not democratic. It answers to itself. The European Central Bank is a prime example: it is completely independent not only from European governments but even from EU bodies, and is therefore totally unaccountable to any form of democratic representation and to politics. Monetary power within the Union is therefore uncontrollable. Large financial corporations and the markets are the true rulers of this European Union.

after poland break from communism we got very big industry
when we joined EU well... they said industry is no longer optimal for us
People from germany and allover they place bouth everything...
and after few years it was all gone they close it
But hey we got FREE money FROM EU! wow

>>214569729
The paradox is that 27 (more or less) democratic states and over 450 million Europeans have been governed for over 20 years by so-called supranational institutions, unelected and not subject to democratic control by European citizens. The EU is much more influenced by business and political lobbies than by the people of Europe. Only thanks to the EU's authoritarianism has it been possible to impose harsh and counterproductive austerity policies (restrictions on public spending, tax increases, reductions in labor costs and wages, devaluation of national capital) on European states and peoples, as happened not only in Greece but throughout the entire area of so-called "peripheral" countries, the so-called "PIGS" (Portugal, Italy, Greece, Spain: PIGS).

>literally have same gdp same wage same everything as Germany when the french idea euro is introduced
>fuck up enormously
>Germany is living proof that it's your own fault
>20 years later: GERMANY DID THIS!

>>214569669
>>214569702
>>214569729
>>214569759
>b-but Russia and China! THEY are antidemocratic!
Maybe, that doesn't change the fact that what I wrote is pure unfiltered truth

And they are coming for more now
they gonna kill our fields to be sure we cant grow our own food
in the 1990+ poland could feed 2,5 times our country populaton
guess how much its now? its gonna be nothing soon becouse, cheap food south america is coming (they are doing it so germans can sell shit for them)
everything in EU is about germany, i thought they lost he war, but look like we did

>>214569811
>Germany is living proof that it's your own fault
lmao don't try to sell me that Germany is a fucking paradise, you are full of rapefugees thanks to the eu and close to economic crisis

>>214569870
Italy has been full of rapefugees for thousands of years... or are these identiarians?

>>214569855
>i thought they lost he war, but look like we did
based. The bigger Germany is, the happier I am

>>214569915
>annihilated by facts and logic
>takes refuge in trivial insults
lol barbarian

>>214569933
im kinda half but we lost also, my other past i s prussian.i got good life so far. so fuck it

>>214569915
The irony if a german throwing refuge insults to other countries

>>214569945
you're not arguing in good faith and on Putin's payroll anyway so the best course of action is making fun of you HIVan

>>214569982
>you're not arguing in good faith and on Putin's payroll
I'm Italian, I don't give a fuck about Russia

>>214569977
I've been to Lisbon so don't try to talk to me, I know what a piece of shit country you live in. 700 euro wage, 1 room rent 1500 euro, streets full of 50% pajeets 50% instagram anglos and the locals reduced to serving them cerveza and bolt rides LMAO

I see the russian gore crap got stale so you kicked in this EU dogshit.

>>214570016
That doesnt change the fact that you are the capital of refugees in europe, and imagine thinking that the literal Disneyland part of the capital is a reflection on the entire City.

>>214570038
I see that years of propaganda have had an effect, how brainwashed you are. I don't give a fuck about russia, fuck them all.

>>214570070
I am gonna dump this jar of pickles right up your astroturfing clanker ass.

>>214570064
>magine thinking that the literal Disneyland part of the capital is a reflection on the entire City.
take a guess if anything remotely similar happens in Heidelberg, Munich, Berlin or literally any other place in all of Germany: no

>you are the capital of refugees in europe,
seems like it's only a matter of time until 25% of Germany moves to Luxembourg then

They really hated us when we did it manually, so let's shit it up even further with AI. That'll work.

The pic in OP's post is notoriously used by VPN trolls

this thread is invalid

>>214570324
I took this pic from this board, I don't care about russia and their little war

>>214570106
lmao sure thing subhuman

>>214570440
I have not mentioned Russia, you have

>>214570465
yes and?

>Thread about the EU being a retarded gay shithole
>Faggots start seething at Russia out of nowhere
It's always so good to see scum crying

Very subtle stuff

OP is a Russian schizo spammer on VPN btw

>>214570728
we know

>>214570728
my point still stands

>>214570728
Cocoк cнoвa в cтpoю

>>214570231
Brazil confirmed White

>>214569542
90% of Greece hates the europoor union, that guy is probably a government drone

>>214569045 (OP)
BASED

>>214571125
we should make a mediterranean union, we have no weight in the eu and we have to suffer the decisions of France and Germany fags

>>214569542
>what Germany did to you
We did that to ourselves after voting for retards for 40+ years

>eurobro
>eurocuck
>europoor
>eurosister
>eurotranny
>eu flag
>ack
>soyjak
>clitty
>unflattering ursula or starmer pic

>>214571150
We had it and it lasted over a 1000 years

This piece of shit corrupted feminist cuck union won't last even 100, fuck those assholes
>>214571157
Lil bootlicker over here gets mad because people insult his masters

Τσίμπα ένα μωρή γαλάζια ακρίδα

>>214571227
>it lasted over a 1000 years
What happened to it??????

>>214569594
You sad, sad yankee fool.

>>214569855
They were not forced to pay reparations after the war. On the contrary, Americans pumped their economy with their Marshall plan and opened their market for their Nazimobiles.

>>214571266
It stopped existing and some kraut larpers decided to name themselves "holy" "roman" "empire" because they were jealous of it

>>214569433
that basically did happen. We are mad.

>>214571377
You're saying that ancient greeks don't exist anymore because they were replaced with Dreckskanacken? True, true. The vacation me and my parents did to Greece when I was a child still traumatized me for how shitty everything was. I thought I was in a warzone and that was 2003, don't want to imagine how fucking shit it is today

>>214571413
At least they don't force you to welcome endless illegal immigrants without the possibility of repatriating them because they are not "safe and democratic countries"

>>214569515
it’s a yid hiding in Italy

EU member countries decide their own immigration policies.

https://www.svt.se/nyheter/inrikes/uppgifter-till-svt-lagsta-asylrelaterade-invandringen-pa-40-ar

In case HIVans haven't updated their script and are gonna say Hungary: That was about not following procedure, which is a separate issue. They could still have denied all asylum applications.

>>214571443
in the united states of mutts you would have a civil war

>>214571432
didn't read, lil raghead under white man's flag

>>214571550
https://www.rainews.it/articoli/2022/11/la-ue-e-i-migranti-sulle-ong--salvare-vite-in-mare--dovere-morale-e-obbligo-legale-b71bb469-ce2a-4429-980d-dc6369eaded0.html
>The EU on migrants on NGO ships: "Saving lives at sea is a moral duty and legal obligation."

>>214571572
Did you drink the greek tap water?

>>214571588
Has a court ruled on this

>>214571633
The Court of Justice of the EU has ruled that a Member State cannot designate a migrant's country of origin as "safe" without an assessment that ensures the safety of the entire population. It has prohibited the use of accelerated procedures based solely on national decrees, because the designation must be verifiable by judges. The Court specified that this rule is valid until the new EU regulation on immigration comes into force in 2026.

>>214571641
Thats not the answer id like, but its good enough
Also, what are these 2026 rules

>>214571668
Member States will be required to register arrivals in the Eurodac database and share the responsibilities of hosting migrants through a new solidarity mechanism.

>>214571693
Based, get fucked you cant just wave them through to western EU anymore
The seethe will grow exponentially next year

>>214571740
>Mamma mia noo we'll actually have to do our duty as outer schengen country and not just make everything germanys problem
Free ride is over manlet monkey

what a fucking retard

>>214571550
>it's da ivaaaans
Holly obsessed swedish muhmed, the one and only defender of EU maneee

>>214571588
That's procedure as well in the sense that they're still asylum applicants. It's also voluntary, hence "Voluntary Solidarity Mechanism". Member states have to opt in.

>>214571706
>to western EU
Nice euphemism

>There are close to 3.5 million migrants in Germany with some form of international protection

Germany is the reason my nonna got her kidneys stolen by the mob o algo

>>214571852
Say germany then, sure. All that matters, the rest of EU wont just keep making it our problem.

>>214569542
It's a Russian on a VPN you can recognize him from his shitty wojaks that he spams in every thread each time with a different flag, and how he keeps complaining about the same shit every time (US, EU, Western degeneracy, birth rates, how Russia is unfairly treated by the West, etc). If he's not getting paid to do this then he's the most gigantic no-life loser I've ever seen in my life.

>>214569433
we paid for all your house renovations, be thankful.

>>214571911
wtf are you even talking about

Friendly reminder that Russia's biggest supporters are brown hellholes.

>>214571884
None of them will stay here

They'll all come to you :)

>>214571919
>Italy will be one of the main Next Generation EU beneficiaries and it will receive, from 2021 to 2026, about € 208 billion euros divided in the following way:

>Recovery and Resilience Facility: € 193.1 billion, (€ 65.5 billion with grants + 127.6 € billion with loans)
>React-EU: € 13.5 billion
>Rural Development: € 0.8 billion
>Just Transition Fund: € 0.5 billion
>Other programmes: € 0.7 billion

>>214572032
We're already sending them back to you retard, your govt is pissing itself
Dont take them, EU fines and even less of an economy for u
Free ride over brown man

>>214572072
we will see

Why has there never been a Slavx president of the EU?

>>214572072
Thoughts on this?

>>214572072
You'll do nothing

>>214572043
Do you think these funds are intended for home renovations? They'll give them to businesses (aka the mafia)

why are western brothers pumping so much money into subhuman 70 iq wiggers that we are
is it just past guilt

I wish I was American, unironically.

I could make fun of inferior countries like the Europoor countries.

>>214569045 (OP)
EU is not perfect but it's a net positive because it's good when it comes to privacy and consumer rights. Yes, it's not very democratic but nothing is.

>>214572523
Why are french posters often such pathetic cucks? France and French people have a lot to be proud of. Many would agree that: "No smart person wants to be american."

>>214572534
>privacy
Lol this nigga hasn't heard about Chat Control and the upcoming EU forced ID laws hahhahhahahh, they literally keep bringing them into the EU parliament until they'll pass them as law

Look at this FUCKING fool, net positively speaking

>>214572549
>France and French people have a lot to be proud of.
Oh yeah, we are #1 for the taxes. You work, you are punished to help the parasites.

>>214572559
Even if it's voted in: It's still much better privacy than anything we have in Sweden. I'm very thankful for the EU overall.

>>214569433
>he doesn't know
They passed a law banning gasoline cars by 2030 but Trump overruled it.

>>214572562
French people should be proud to have industries that actually produce real products with value and not just slop.

>>214572567
You're a eurofool, I bet you think banning plastic straws and internal combustion engines will also save the earth LOL

>>214572581
closer to truth than what you are trying to push here LMAO

>>214572607
pay denbts

>>214572595
Even LVMH and Michelin want to move to the USA.

Total Energie is almost an American company as we speak.

The few companies France still has left are mostly relics from before the 21st century. We hardly produce anything anymore, burdened by the highest tax rates in the world, excessive regulations and standards, and constant green propaganda.

>>214572607
>banning plastic straws
Good, we need to ban most things that are plastic because of microplastics. I don't agree with everything the EU does but it does a lot more good than harm.

>>214570643
>>214570231
it's not only Russia.
USA also have an interest in keeping europe weak and divided, even before the orange conman became president

>>214572729
>USA also have an interest in keeping europe weak and divided, even before the orange conman became president
True. The US has been doing this for a long time.

EU isn't as bad as (((they))) want you to believe.

>>214571483
SIIIIIR IT'S ZAINICHI JEW

>>214572714
That's the US pushing for it. You have to understand that the US is an adversary in some ways. France has many great new companies like Mistral for example. I have used some of their models and their chatbot and it's been good.

>>214571227
βρε σαλτα και γαμησου καραγκιοζη που θα μου πεις οτι ψηφιζω ΝΔ
Ευτυχως που υπάρχει η ευρώπη και σε έκανε ανθρωπο τουρκαλβανέ σκατόβλαχε.

>the EU made me start a war with ukraine and transformed me into a BBC receptacle after swallowing a french mortar shell
Why are ruspigs like this?

>>214572791
nobody said that, gyppo

>>214572781
foreskin status?

>>214572873
2

>>214572784
>That's the US pushing for it.
No, it's the French politicians destroying France for 50 years with
>Highest tax rates in the world
>excessive regulations and standards
>green propaganda
We are not competitive anymore. We are not holding any card anymore.

>decent living standards and not dying for oligarchs making russia bigger is oppression or however the krokodil is injected
ZA RODINUUUUUUUUUUUUUU

>>214572900
No, the core problem is that France isn't doing more to protect its companies against American interests.

>gypsies believe being the US's bootlickers improve their lives
lmao

>>214572969
>AACK MY ASSS

I don't understand this association between EU skeptics and supporters of the Russian regime

>>214572788
>βρε σαλτα και γαμησου καραγκιοζη που θα μου πεις οτι ψηφιζω ΝΔ
>Ευτυχως που υπάρχει η ευρώπη και σε έκανε ανθρωπο τουρκαλβανέ σκατόβλαχε.

>t.

>>214569045 (OP)
i have a long fucking list of criticisms of the EU but it being an unelected oligarchy is not one of them
the fuck do you mean by this? almost every level of EU governance is directly elected, while the rest gets elected by the elected officials

>>214572935
did he or the drone detonate?

>>214572935
oh OP is an ivan
thank for fact checking based romanian
also congrats on getting married, some anon told me you are getting married

>>214573000
how is it hard to understand? almost every time an EU "skeptic" party gets investigated you find russia in their ass
russia wants to get rid of the EU, as per their guide book the foundation of geopolitics
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundations_of_Geopolitics#In_Europe

>>214572692
>>214572722
Thoughts on DONALD TRVMP sodomising our unelected queen?

How could this HAPPEN to us, lads? I thought we were powerful and shit and mutts would beg us not to countertariff them!

>>214572722
a lot of people don't know that plastic is made from petrol, if they did they'd realize a lot of the pro plastic shit is from oil lobbies

>>214573167
wow that's a terrible trade deal, good thing it's not passing till members approve which they don't seem to be

>>214573105
thanks bro

>>214573139
McCarthyism is when you're not allowed to have an opinion because you will be accused of being secretly in alliance with the enemy.

>>214573000
It’s unironically not that complicated. Russia doesn’t like the EU and would like to get rid of it, as such they fund anti-EU parties and anti-EU propaganda which mostly aligns with chud rhetoric as well. This works in the west, but not so much in Eastern Europe / countries that border with Russia where chuds are both anti-EU/anti-immigration/anti-globalisation and also vehemently anti-Russia due to their shenanigans.

Only people who don’t have to deal with Russians on a daily basis support them.

>>214572229
not him but my thoughts are that this pig should be bred because it can replace cows with udders like that holy shit
imagine the carbon emission reduction from no longer using cows

>>214573279
you can say that when those parties are not blatantly sucking off russia constantly and getting caught in the act of recieving funds
you can voice hatred of the EU, hell even those parties are still operating today but you can't cry when someone calls you out

>>214573306
nobody said anything about any parties, dude
criticizing Ursula doesn't mean automatic support from some random grifters who also criticize the establishment.

>>214572791
your posts are always the same yet they never cease to reveal how you are the lowest of the low

>>214573046
all the European institutions are elected, directly or indirectly
(You) elect the represetatives that elect the officials

even the Italian President of the Republic is elected indirectly by the elected members of the Italian Parliament
does this make him an oligarch?

>>214573395
ursula is a faggot, the OP is not making fun of ursula but making a statement about the EU being an undemocratic union of oligarchs which is false
again the EU has a fuckton of problems, too long to list in an entire 4chan thread almost but that is not one of them but just retardation spouted online

>>214573464
I am not disagreeing with that, not sure why you replied to me with that

>>214573477
>undemocratic union of oligarchs
>which is false
It's almost entirely undemocratic. How is that false?
The Americans choose their president. Europeans don't choose the EC head.
And that's just step 1 towards a democratic EU.

>>214573496
I forgot to write "this" as the first line

>>214573507
see what the italian said >>214573464
how is this undemocratic? it's delegation
not everything needs to be a flashy US style presidential race, most european governments are like that to avoid too much power in one hand due to populism
>>214573510
happens

>>214569045 (OP)
ok lets it more democratic...
>"NOOOO.... WE DON'T WANT TO GIVE UP OUR SOVEREIGNITY TO EU BUREAUCRATS!"
this is literally how everything ends.

>>214573507
there's direct democracy and there's democracy with elected officials that elect other officials

if you want direct democracy in the EU you should push for reform as it is feasible in theory
imho the current model is working fine in the current stage of evolution of the EU institutions but who knows about the future?

>>214573580
I don't see how that will work, a US style presidential race would cause a lot of unease
no candidate can speak all our languages, and they will cause a lot of problems only campaigning in populated countries like germany while ignoring low population ones like finland

>>214573464
read
>>214569669
>>214569702
>>214569729
>>214569759

>even the Italian President of the Republic is elected indirectly by the elected members of the Italian Parliament
does this make him an oligarch?
In my opinion, yes, the president of the republic should be directly elected by the citizens

>>214573614
I'm not advocating for it: I only said that it is feasible in theory

>>214573167
krasnoff should yap less and work more on fixing this

>>214569045 (OP)
Yes. It runs by the trust of the people, not the opinion of the people. Because such plutocratic organization requires far more insight and specialized experience than people have.
The risks are many at different levels with such a huge pyramid of power if the individual should get to develop the awareness and responsibility that is necessary to determine the path forward for one's community.

>>214573507
All EU bureaucrats are elected, some indirectly and some directly. People who call this process "undemocratic" have either swallowed too much Russian semen or are underaged faggots who doesn’t know how democratic systems usually work.

>>214573580
that's not how the EC president is elected,
most EU countries get no say and are told to just shut up and fall in line,
only France and Germany decide who the head is

>>214573614
votes would obviously have to be proportional, based on population,
as for campaigning in different cultures, well, that's the whole problem with the EU in the first place

>>214573640
Well I disagree my friend, I love the Italian Constitution as it was written with an anti-fascist spirit among other things.

Presidential Republics often elect silly guys who happen to have too much power in their hands.
I prefer the Parliament to be the real seat of the power and the President acting as powerful arbiter to ensure the correct functioning of the institutions.

>>214573643
in 2-3 generations when everybody speaks english on the planet or whatever lingua franca they choose maybe it will work

>>214573698
You do not understand how representative democracy work. Shut the fuck up and pay more attention in your social studies class, you moron.

>>214573040
not an argument
I accept your concession

>>214573684
lots of weasel words,
end result,
we have an EC president that is neither competent nor impartial

>>214573658
Krasnov has made europoors to pay for this, thanks Ursula!

>>214573698
the EC president is elected by the same mechanism as most Prime Ministers in the member states = parliaments has a vote on it after the popular elections and the largest block gets the position

>>214573734
Not my problem if you're too cuck brained to understand freedom and democracy.

>>214573745
>le passive aggressive galazia akrida

Τσίμπα άλλο ένα

>>214573750
us tariffs are paid by us consumers ivanopoulou...

>>214573756
the degree of separation makes a big difference,
in parliamentary democracies the PM is sort of implied by whoever wins the election

>>214573746
>weasel words
You simply don’t understand what a representative democracy is because you’re an underaged faggot.
>neither competent nor impartial
Don’t get me wrong, most EU bureaucrats are neoliberal faggots. However, not having competency or impartiality doesn’t mean that the system itself is undemocratic. Now you’re just moving the goalpost.

>>214573811
>implied by whoever wins the election
same as the EU

>>214573769
Pay more attention in school kid. You might learn something so you don’t have to embarrass yourself on the internet.

>>214573684
When >50% of the laws in your country and municipality are "democratically" legislated by only 2% of the people they concern it's not really like you and I have much influence on our own lives, is it?

>>214573841
this applies to every functional democracy and is better than the alternative of having the 0.1% legislating as feudal lords

>>214573841
You elected those people. I mean if the argument is that representative democracy doesn’t work then make that argument instead. But that’s a different argument. Any representative democracy has this exact problem, it just the EU. Just spouting brainless memes saying «the EU is anti democratic because the Russians told me o algo» is fucking retarded.

>>214573882
*not just the Eu

>>214573882
>You elected those people.
So did the 98% of the EU that doesn't know or care about how the law affects your community.

>>214573803
Check the trade deal a bit more (and pretty soon, enjoy your nice AMERICAN bleached chicken)

>>214573956
I mean what the fuck did you expect from a democracy. If 98% of people want something you don’t then you’re gonna get btfo’d. This is just the age old city vs countryside issue at a larger scale.

I'm glad eurotrannies are going extinct

>>214573841
direct democracy is superior but it's very difficult to implement as you need Swiss levels of civic sense and management to make it work
also it's even more difficult the larger the country is

>>214574044
when the Western European nations will be an Islamic outpost and the Eastern nations a Russian periphery, you will cry. It is in your best interest to support and defend us,

>>214574044
Because it owns the libs or however the amazon delivery driver is worked to death?

>>214572549
No its an ugly nigger infested degenerated failed state.
Anyone here cheers for its complete destruction.
>>214572595
Theres no indutry in france.

>>214574007
I did it sounds like you didn't LMAOO

>>214572784
>mistral
Useless irrelevant collapsing bullshit that will move to the US soon.

>>214569045 (OP)
i though oligarchy and corruption only exist here

>>214572969
it does thought, pretty much all eastern european countries relies on EU gibs from western europe

>>214574034
You can't have a good argument for letting Germany, Poland, France, Hungary etc such a huge influence on our local communities. It's a matter of TRUST and since you believe in not having close to a majority say in the majority of laws... Well, I'll ignore the insults.
It's not right feeling a "victory" getting to keep a cultural tobacco product. It's not right having to pay fines for feeling forced to limit the free movement due to abuse of it.
It's not democratic. I don't want to take the will of rest of the EU into consideration for getting to live my swedish life in Sweden.
Concerning outside threats, the EU has not concerned itself with collaborative defense. I feel no trust in that lobby cult accomplishing anything beneficial for us on that front.

>>214574054
That is why I'm stating the EU is just diluting the citizen's power over his own community. It makes ZERO sense claiming we get more power just because we cast a vote. Ridiculous!
The EU gives to deep-reaching power to to many people outside of the affected area.

>>214574347
>its not democratic to consider the will of 98% of the people, aka "the rest of the EU", against the will of 2%
Literally the entire purpose of a democracy…

>>214574489
Please consider why you are not even a full member.

>>214574347
>don't want to take the will of rest of the EU into consideration for getting to live my swedish life in Sweden.
applies to everywhere, why should the will of someone in Lyon affect my life in Nantes etc etc
>the EU has not concerned itself with collaborative defense.
every time Europe tried to get serious about it americans freaked out, including this year after the hundred billions of weapons programs were announced. Start with this (the pdf)
https://www.iss.europa.eu/publications/chaillot-papers/united-states-and-european-defence

>>214574554
I know why we’re not a full member, but considering how we have implemented every single directive ever, we could as well have been. We’re vulnerable for pressure by china and russia and the us as outsiders, which is constantly demonstrated.

>>214574570
>applies to everywhere, why should the will of someone in Lyon affect my life in Nantes etc etc
They are both French. I guess they have democracy at different levels just like in Sweden. The EU as more than a trade union is just absurd.
I will never become "European". There's nothing to gain from more influence by less concerned people. That kind of arrangement is submission.

>>214574823
Feel free to vote swedexit. Like UK has demonstrated nobody is holding you against your will you dumb hillbilly.

>>214575312
Italexit soon, mark my words