Thread 214710734

Why do Lithuanians get angry when Belorusians claim the history of the Grand Duchy (they call it Litvinism)? It's obvious to anyone from the outside that the modern ethnic nation state of Lithuania is not the same entity as the Grand Duchy of Lithuania and that's okay, multiple countries can share its history. Just like Roman Empire isn't just Italian and the old Ruthenia isn't just Russian. It's not just about the territory, it's about the people that made up the nation.

the baltics are very insecure nations in general. i wonder how it can be fixed

being Lithuanian is nothing special idk why some belarusians and poles insist on pretending they are

>>214710734 (OP)
nobody cares

>>214711827
For some reason a lot of great Polish figures came from Lithuania. Very few famous Poles came from actual Poland. Piłsudski (Lithuanian himself) even said that
>Poland is like a bagel, the borderlands are fertile, but there is nothing in the middle.

Idk, Slavs apparently are like that. Russians have been also always ruled by foreigners, since the beginning of their state.

>>214711827
Actually being Lithuanian is very special. YOu guys were the center of a grand civilization and helped civilize multiple slavic groups from barbarism. Stand fucking guard.

Why don't belarussians speak belarusian language?

nobody minds them thinking they were part of GDL, because arguably they were, but you gotta remember that we wuz dooks and they wuz serfs, and litvinists are delusional insecure subhumans who are afraid of admitting that

>>214712190
Because many of them don't even see it as a full fledged language but a dialect of Russian.
It's like asking why Samogitians don't speak Samogitian anymore but switch to "proper" Aukstatijan Lithuanian

>>214712354
Samogitian is widely spoken in Samogitia though.

>>214712275
>but you gotta remember that we wuz dooks and they wuz serfs
you really think that?
90% of people ofboth baltic and slavic origin were peasants
yes there were lithuanian nobles but
lots of nobles were either ruthenian or ruthenized or polonized
>While at the beginning the nobility was almost all Lithuanian or Samogitian, with territorial expansion more Ruthenian families joined the nobility. As early as the 16th century, several Ruthenian noble families began to call themselves gente Ruthenus, natione Lithuanus.

>>214712354
>don't even see it as a full fledged language
that's their problem, insecure fake nation with an identity crisis
>Samogitians don't speak Samogitian
it ain't a language, it's a dialect, they don't pretend to be separate either

>>214712372
By old grannies. Young people speak just TV Lithuanian. And if they accidentally use Samogitian words or accent at school, their teachers correct them. That's how it works with Belarussian too.

>>214712380
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3xJLvcfWlg

>>214712406
>it ain't a language, it's a dialect
Again, many Belarussians think the same about Belarussian. Truth is, what is a dialect and what is a language is always a matter of politics. Various Italian and German dialects are more distant from standard Italian/German than Belarussian is from Russian, so it's totally not about linguistics

>>214712408
>By old grannies. Young people speak just TV Lithuanian.
>let me tell you about your region
Most of the kids I see here speak in Samogitian.
> their teachers correct them.
The teachers in my area speak in Samogitian to their students and one of the school principals is calling for an establishment of Samogitian as a separate mandatory class

>>214710734 (OP)
I usually heard it from Polish nobility that the Balrussians are actually Lithuanians

>>214711898
>Russians have been also always ruled by foreigners, since the beginning of their state.
This is not true.
Besides Russians, Russia was ruled only by Germans (the "Romanov" dynasty after Peter I) and 1 Georgian.

>>214712441
I heard different stories about Samogitian from Lithuanians (from Vilnius) so I don't know who to trust.

But anyway, some people in rural Belarus speak Belarussian too, but still they don't necessarily see it as a real language.

>>214712513
You completely ignore the fact that Russia was founded by Swedes

>>214712517
>from Vilnius
This is like trusting a Western Pole's perspective on what Eastern Poland is like

Rule number 1 of /int/. You do not make threads about Lithuania.

>>214712513
what about hohols and jews? at best that counts as pseudorussians

>>214712408
>>214712517
You're such a fucking retard oh my god...

>>214712190
>Why don't belarussians speak belarusian language?

>>214712452
>I usually heard it from Polish nobility
Are you a time traveller or just that old?

>>214710734 (OP)
Wouldn't the nobility very quickly become ethnic mutts due to political marriages between different territories? The average peasant has a far stronger connection to the land than some noble who is half foreign.

>>214712537
First of all, prove to me that these Swedish faggots exist.

>>214712697
>Kokoko PROOFS???

>>214712538
They say that Samogitian culture is just larping

>>214712545
hohol are the most pure-blooded Russians, without any admixture of Mongoloid shit or subhumans.

>>214712686
> In 1697, in the entire Grand Duchy of Lithuania, at the request of the local Lithuanian nobility, Polish was introduced as the official language instead of the previously existing Ruthenian language.

>>214712730
I'd argue Vilniečiai ar infinitely bigger larpers considering the city was predominantly Jewish and Polish for more of its history than it was Lithuanian

>>214712736
>hohol are the most pure-blooded Russians
Kek they're like 30% middle eastern.

>>214712710
That's right, you have no evidence.

>>214712876
a healthy white man should grow a beard, there is nothing about it that makes him churkas/middle eastern. if you don't grow a beard then you are a mongoloid mongrel.

>>214712876
>left
looks gruzinian
>right
looks UFChurkian

>>214712517
>but still they don't necessarily see it as a real language.
they went mutual understanding with the Ukrainians on TV, their dialects are close

>>214712792
How's life in Telsiai?

>>214712946
Their genes make them middle eastern, not beards though.

>>214713090
Some people claim that standart ukrainian is closer to belarusian than to some western ukrainian dialects. Northern is 100%, but it's rare.
>>214713189
pic related

>>214713119
nta but Telšiai is one of the coziest places i've ever visited

>>214713261
Too many jews

>>214713261
What makes it cozy?

>>214710734 (OP)
That would be like us claiming the history of medieval Hungary because most of our country used to be ruled by them or vassal and we would be using their crown and cross as symbols and using irrelevant arguments like "modern ethnic nation state of Hungary is not the same entity as the Crown of Saint Stephen" as if that would give us more of claim.

>>214710734 (OP)
It's only insane liberahas and nazis, 5% of the population, who like the Lithuanian larp though because it makes Belopidoraha somehow closer to Gayrope. Ordinary people don't give a damn.

>>214713412
Litvinism puts emphasis on the official language being proto-belarusian, often more important than lithuanian. I'm not sure how valid it is.
>modern ethnic nation state of Hungary is not the same entity as the Crown of Saint Stephen
I say this.

>>214713412
The entirety of Belarus was ruled by Lithuania so it would be like Slovaks claiming the history of medieval Hungary, which is plausible considering their coat of arms.

>>214713308
compact, next to a lake, a bit hilly, lots of nature, pretty

The issue is not that we share history, everyone knows Ruthenians aka Belarussians/Ukrainians played a part in GDL history, the issue we have with Belarussians wewuzing that Mindaugas, Vytautas, Jogaila etc were actually Belarussians, we stole their name.

When in letters of Vytautas to HRE Emperor he says Samogitians and Aukstainians are the same people, speak the same language and are Lithuanians.

>>214713584
There was no such thing as official language, it depended on the region what languages were used. West of Vilnius German/Latin was prevalent in diplomatic communications and documentations and in Vilnius and Belarus obviously Ruthenian. In Statues of Grand Duchy of Lithuania, Ruthenian is not named official language, it's even written that for examples local judges must know Lithuanian and or Ruthenian.

>>214713648
It becomes pretty clear fast when their names are pagan Lithuanian. The theory is ok if you want to have a big empire.

>>214713412
did romanian ethnic nobility rule hunagry? was lithuanian language reserved for peasants in small fraction of the country? no

it's not the same thing
it's more like if bulgaria started to claim the history of ancient turkic bulgaria

>>214711057
you can't fix this

>>214712513
The Romanovs were Greeks (Romans/Byzantines), or at least that's what they claimed.

Lithuanians act like GDL didn't exist after 1430s, slavix act like Lithuania didn't exist before 1569.

>Union of Lublin: signed by a Lithuanian king who ruled over both Poland and Lithuania, and decided to unify the two countries
>Lithuanians: REEEEEE NOOOOOOO WE'VE BEEN OCCUPIED AND OPPRESSED BY EVIL POLES, NEVAH 5GET THE POLISH CRIMES!!!1

Why are they like this

Oh and both sides look back at it through a lens of moden ethnonationalism, making it even further retarded.

>>214714871
To be fair Jogaila was a backstabbing shitheel, as was the fashion at the time.

>>214714910
I'm talking about Sigismund II Augustus thoughbeit.

>>214714953
No I realize that, it's like a 100 years later, but you can't have this discussion without me calling Jogaila a shitheel.

VGH... We could have had a dynasty of Świdrygiellonowie...

>>214715053
Do you know the name of the roughest lithuanian duke?

>>214715082
no who is it

>>214715101
Švitripopiergaila

Has Poland ever been ruled by Poles?
They like to talk about how similar we are, but in fact the entire Romanov dynasty before Peter III was completely ethnically Russian.

>>214715136
the Piast dynasty which ruled Poland until 14th century and 4 elected kings in 17th and 18th centuries
Also take into account that the Lithuanian dynasty was pretty polonized

>>214715205
As far as I know, there is genetic data that confirms that the haplogroup of the Piasts was R1b L21, which means that they were originally Celts, or other Western Europeans.

>>214715265
What haplo were Riurikids?

>>214715282
The oldest and most current sample had I2 din.

>>214714871
Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth was the biggest disaster that has happened to our countries. Yes unification was necessary, but giving the corrupt barons so much power over the king is what caused our ultimate downfall. Unironically if the king had more power everything would of turned out better

>>214715265
>that the haplogroup of the Piasts was R1b L21,
There are native R1b's in Poland too.

Also, the bodies of Piasts they examined are late Piasts from 13th century so obviously there could be a lot of intermixing (or cheating) in between. The bodies of first Piasts aren't preserved.

And you need to remember that the king in PLC had mostly representative role. The country was de facto ruled by nobility and that was of Polish or Lithuanian/Ruthenian origin mostly.

>>214711057
>tf
>tp

>>214715966
not the same tier of insecurity

>>214714871
Wait, so actially Poles were oppressed by litniggers?

Kill all haplofaggots

>>214716362
we dindu nuffin we wuz good boys bix nood

>>214715949
of course you can cope it.
everyone understands that the original Slavs were only R1a and I2.
if this dynasty has other haplos then it means it is not of Slavic origin, but most likely from Western Europe

>>214716409
more than half of the population of your country are genetically Slavs, and you know this very well.

>le l2 aee the original slavs
>doesn't even mention n1ggers
even in haploautism you can't be honest

>>214716362
we were forced to be agrarian shithole for all eternity instead of developing a middle class

>>214716483
All romanians are basically slavs who larp as not slavs

>>214716514
because they are not Slavs, and not even Balts.
just a dirty, disgusting consequence of the invasion of Finno-Ugric goblins

>>214716514
There's a near 100% chance that many of your ancestors had a N haplogroup, why are you insulting them like that?

>>214715115
kek

>>214716619
This is so sad.

>>214716822
Because I don't care about haploautism.

>>214716822
>>214716894
I am R1a, besides n1chinks still remain Mongoloid subhumans who once defiled the 100% Aryan genetics of Eastern Europe, regardless of my personal attitude towards them.

>>214716961
based. i am planning to visit vilnius in october, do you have any recommendations for me ?

>>214717415
Yeah, don't come in October.

>>214716483
I don't know if that's what you tried to convey but the way you put it makes it sound as if there are some Romanians who are entirely Slavic and some others who aren't at all, when in fact we're all within the 35-75% range based mostly on geography, but also different from person to person

>>214717415
If you'll have someone to hang with, public drinking in many different overlook spots is great. City looks awesome in the fall. Not legal technically, but odds of you getting caught are low and worst case scenario you'd get a sub-10EUR fine if caught the first time, if any. Way cheaper than bars, which are quite overpriced here, but relatively decent.
There's a high quality ramen place called Sakai Ramen, and a great taco place called Donde which I'd recommend. For local foods any place works decently, but Žemaičių Ąsotis is perfection.
Otherwise idk, check out the Palace of the Dukes museum, it's huge but pretty sick, and the Lukiškės Prison.

>>214717974
>public drinking

Maybe he just wants to go sightseeing and you recommend him an immersive Lithuanian experience. What's missing from your post is a crash course on stealing cars and the phone number to a suicide helpline.

>>214718287
We still want him to have some new experiences when he visits Romania.

>>214718287
when in rome

>>214717415
we are full
>>214717974
Back to plebbit normis pydaravičius

>>214718453
im just trying to help

>>214718623
oh so your a good boy huh? You probably want a pat on the head too?

>>214719279
only from big breasted goth women