Thread 216147149

How did Latvia and Estonia join EU and NATO in 2004, if they were meeting all the reasons Ukraine was invaded in 2022?
>former USSR state
>bordering Russia
>large Russian minority that needs to be protected from oppression
>warm water ports
>provoking Putin
What did Riga and Tallinn do right that Kyiv didn't?

>>216147149 (OP)
because they have like 7 people between them. it's easy to admit tiny countries

Because they're irrelevant and small

>>216147149 (OP)
That's very simple, you see that's because your mother was a notorious whore

russia was africa tier back then and they were too small to justify a war

>>216147149 (OP)
Not much to be had there or here, 'kraine on the other hand has all sorts of good shit like coal, oil and industry (now bombed to shit).

>>216147149 (OP)
Putin dont care about that, we dont have resources to steal on the border, thats all that matters. Rest is just excuses

>>216147149 (OP)
>2004
I guess, Putin didn't antagonize the sodomic west like he's doing now, so ge didn't want to spoil relations with Sodom and Gomorrah by invading shprots. Also, the majority of the population of Baltica was pro-NATO and pro-west at that time while ukraine was 50/50 or even more 55/45, western ukraine supporting NATO and EU membership while Eastern Ukraine having a pro-Russian stance. Such a divided country could never join NATO.

>>216147383
>>216147422
>>216147461
>>216147621
Then why was Russia involved in wars in Transnistria, Abkhazia and South Ossetia in the 1990s? They are tiny, have 0 resources and Russian people were struggling like Africans at the time

They left at the right time and Putin accepted it because 1) they're small and irrelevant and have always been pretty anti-Russian and 2) he was too weak to do anything about it.

Meanwhile Ukraine is the origin of the East Slavs, was the bread/coal/steel basket of the USSR, and was generally pro-Russian up until maidan, which completely fucked the general Russian plan to become relevant again by funding friendly autocrats in post-Soviet states in exchange for their agreeing to be in the Russian sphere.

>>216147149 (OP)
they are tiny and irrelevant, and russia was in no position to challenge it in 2004

>>216147727
>trannysister
They had a genuine ethnic conflict I think, there was real butthurt between gypsies and russians and russian gypsies there so it escalated to violence before even moscow got involved. Same for churkas, though russia was more involved in the lead up to 08, and it was far away for nobody to really care.

>>216148033
I think Russia could have started race riots in Narva and Daugavpils at a very low cost and stopped EU/NATO expansion without firing a shot and yet they didn't
Maybe EU and USA told Moscow through backchannels that they are under their protection now even before official accession

>>216147149 (OP)
ukraine made a pact with russia so they dont join and wont hold nuclear weapons for securities

>>216148119
They tried setting up a rival governing body/party first here, same as moldova, but nobody gave a shit about it here and no one joined it/payed it attention.
Soviets/russians encourage citizens to not give a shit about politics because "it's all corrupt/rigged and you can't do anything about it, don't bother", and that holds true when you try starting shit like riots/insurrections. I guess in Moldova/Georgia they had real issues to fight over, or just that southern blood. Us balts are more like russians sadly, cattle who only bitch about their lives but do nothing to change it.

>>216148033
Ossetia and Abkhazia also had genuine ethnic conflicts. Abkhazia wanted to separate from Georgia, our country provided them weapons.
As for Ossetia, Georgians literally strike first also hitting Russian military in the process. The fault of Georgia in this conflict was even officially admitted by the westies.

>>216147149 (OP)
1. Ukraine voluntarily stayed under Russia's sphere of influence while Baltic "countries" tried to escape it.
2. Baltic "countries" have zero industry, the EU could afford to virtue signal by adding them because it wouldn't really affect the union. Ukraine is a massive agricultural producer at low costs, giving it access to the EU would kill European farmers.

>>216148491
>As for Ossetia, Georgians literally strike first also hitting Russian military in the process. The fault of Georgia in this conflict was even officially admitted by the westies.
I was talking about the 90's not 2008
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Ossetia_war_(1991%E2%80%931992)

>>216148550
Even Latvia is a more legitimate country than "us" of >a.

>>216148550
>1. Ukraine voluntarily stayed under Russia's sphere of influence while Baltic "countries" tried to escape it.
This is also completely not true, in fact Ukraine resisted Russian aims to reintegrate and dominate it from the get go, even "pro-Russian" politicians like Kuchma and Yanokovich tried to balance EU-Russia ties and refused to ratify the CIS treaty or join the Customs Union. Ukraine also declared willingness to join the EU pretty much at all times but they were corrupt as shit and didn't do any needed reforms so Brussels kept telling them to fuck off

>>216148683
Ukraine thought they could play both sides and profit from it like Turkey.

>>216148717
So did Belarus KWAB. Muh "bridge between West and East"

>>216147149 (OP)
We managed to do it quickly enough, before zigeria got strong enough to properly throw its weight around again. Ukraine was much less politically determined in this respect and spent another decade getting couped back and forth.

>>216148550
>Ukraine voluntarily stayed under Russia's sphere of influence
they literally had a revolution in 2004 over this. the problem was that the pro-russian elite was much more deeply entrenched and they had a larger pro-russian voting block. we didn't let the soviet era illegal immigrants vote without naturalizing and it saved us, for a while at least.

>>216147149 (OP)
>tiny border in a mostly forested region
vs
>giant open plain where the biggest tank battle in history had happened

>>216148717
>Ukraine thought
Ukraine is not a single person.

>>216150473
estonia can bomb st petersburg from it's territory

>>216150473
completely irrelevant in this case, stfu clueless retard

>>216147149 (OP)
Russia didn't really see them as in their sphere of influence. Their sphere is Belarus, Ukraine and to a lesser extend Kazakhstan and the other stans. Some leaked cables made this obvious but neocons gunna neocon and neolibs gunna neolib.

>>216150494
>Ukraine is not a single person.
Ukraine is the president elected by majority of it population that shes the world view of the population

>>216150514
And Russia can bomb America from Siberia...
>>216150531
It is very relevant. Why do you think the only CSTO intervention in history happened in Kazakhstan, which just happens to share the longest border with Russia?

>>216150564
>And Russia can bomb America from Siberia...
with what lol

>>216150608
With ICBMs, obviously.

>>216147149 (OP)
The US strategically supported the Baltic states for geopolitical reasons and abandoned Ukraine.

>>216150564
it's completely irrelevant, russia was not in a position to launch invasions against neighbors in 2004 and the key decider here was the fact that both latvia and estonia had voting populations that were majority pro-EU and pro-NATO, so we joined.

the way we accomplished this was by not immediately granting citizenship to all the stateless individuals who had migrated here during the USSR, and instead restored the citizenship law as it had been pre-war. in Ukraine all the russians got to vote and Ukraine had also been granted significant russian-majority territories during the soviet era, making their electorate much more pro-russian overall.

>>216150724
>stateless individuals
you mean Soviet citizens...

>>216150553
In 2004, Ukraine's dictator stepped down, but not before rigging an election to place his successor in charge. In response, the Ukrainian people revolted and overthrew him.

Literally the opposite of what you imagine. Fucking underageb&s

>>216147149 (OP)
our gov-in-exile based in Washington DC gave an application to join NATO back when NATO was founded

>>216150764
What makes Yanukovich a dictator, but someone like Yuschenko or Timoshenko legitimate? Their political leanings?

>>216150755
if you're the citizen of a state that no longer exists you're stateless. in 91, the Republic of Latvia, an independent nation state established in 1918, was restored, along with its legal control of the territory in these borders. And along its citizenship law. Those who were eligible to receive citizenship under said law received it (regardless of ethnicity, thus including tens of thousands of russian speaking individuals). Those who had migrated to the territory during the occupation of this territory by a foreign power did not. However, to prevent a humanitarian disaster, and prevent them from remaining stateless, they were granted a temporary status with permanent residency and expedited pathways to either Latvian or russian citizenship.

>>216150835
>stepped down in 2004
>Yanukovich
you're retarded, denis.

that's as pointless a question as asking why the us enriched south korea and japan while impoverishing rest countries in east asia

>>216150872
>an independent nation state established in 1918
That state seized to exist in 1941.
>was restored
What the fuck does that even mean? Did the people in charge in 1941 approve of this or what? Can I restore the Roman Empire this way somehow? Enlighten me.
>>216150909
Kuchma stepped down, Yanukovych ran against Yuschenko.

>>216147707
You're an atheist nerd who plays videogames and watches porn, stop the LARP

>>216148571
My bad.

>>216150835
>Yanukovich
2004 was Kuchma my guy, he wasn't a dictator yet but at the end of his term he was turning more authoritarian and there was a leak proving he ordered a murder of a journalist that fucked him up politically

>>216150764
>In response, the Ukrainian people revolted and overthrew him
It was mostly Western Ukrainians, not the Ukrainian people on the whole as you're trying to present it. Western ukrainian bandera nazi radicals dethroned the pro-Russian doctator (Yanukovich), who actually won the elections in 2004 and replaced him with the pro-European dictator (Yushchenko). The Eastern Ukraine always voted for moderate or pro-Russian candidates. Even Zelensky got elected in 2019 because he promised to stop the Donbas war and sign a peace deal with the rioting republics of the East.

timing
ruskies were not in position to fuck shit up yet

>>216150912
>why the us enriched south korea and japan while impoverishing rest countries in east asia
Why though?

>>216147149 (OP)
Because both Estonia and Latvia are useless.
None of them have a significant mineral reserve, their countries offer no natural barriers for defensive purposes, and their populations are too small and aged to be used as cannon fodder.
Basically, Latvia and Estonia are wealth drains...

>>216151027
Don't look it up how many journalists got killed in the Potroshenko and Zelensly times.

>>216151127
>no natural barriers
they’re literally a chokepoint geographically. So much so that every single state on the Baltic coast contested them at some point. Estonia was at one point a Papal German knightly order, a Danish colony, a Swedish colony, and a Russian colony. You can add Poland to that list in the case of Latvia.

>>216151143
Before 2020, every single European news agency pointed out that all Zelensky's adversaries died under weird circumstances. From "falling from his balcony" to "suicide by 3 shots in the head". He only became the "champion of democracy" when he said he was going to join NATO.

>>216151214
Yeah, in the Middle Ages, when all you had to do was close the gates of your castle and wait for harvest season, when enemy troops had to go back or the entire country would starve because there were no people to harvest the fields.
Remember what happened with the German defence of Estonia and Latvia when the Soviet Union started to move west?
They were complete encircled in less than a month.

>>216151526
>mentioning encirclements while shilling for the USSR
Anon, I...

>>216151612
I am not shilling for anyone. I am being a realist.
Ukraine was a big deal for Russia because Ukraine had enough oil to keep Europe with lights and heaters on for 20 years without needing to buy a single drop of oil or gas from Russia.
And Ukraine is fucking huge (as European countries go, we have states bigger than Ukraine). Even if Russia loses 5M conquering it, in 5 years they will have 25M to replenish their ranks in Ukraine alone.

>>216151083
because it's purely geopolitical, a matter of luck
the only reason the us poured money into south korea and japan was purely to screw over communists in east asia
i believe ukraine is the most unlucky country in the europe, purely geopolitically
this has nothing to do with ukrainians being incompetent or lacking insight
ukrainians are just unlucky af

>>216151774
>i believe ukraine is the most unlucky country in the europe
Let me introduce you to the Balkans...
Ukraine has what they can call "a golden age" every other generation. The Balkans never had a golden age in their entire history.

>>216151898
no i was trying to say that no matter what ukrainians do, they can never escape russian interference and violence
russia is to blame for ukraine remaining one of europe's poorest countries despite having all the conditions for prosperity

>>216152240
>all the conditions for prosperity
Such as? Fertile lands? Those fertile lands were impossible to use for agriculture due to constant raids from Tatars. It's only Russia who managed to stop it by rekting Tatar khanates and sissifying the raiders, so those lands belong to us if you think about it. Without Russia, Ukraine would still be "wild fields" with impossible living conditions.

>>216147149 (OP)
Because Kiev is the mother of the Russian cities.
Kiev and Ukraine for russians are roughly what Mecca is for moslems and the Vatican is for catholics.
Estonia and other baltic chihuahuas are some kind of swampy chuds for ruskis and have no such sacred significance.

We can now say whatever the fuck we want and ziggers cant and wont do anything to us. Feels good knowing zogbots will always come to rescue.

>>216152575
>We can now say whatever the fuck we want and ziggers cant and wont do anything to us

>>216152723
Ivan...

>>216152820
It's not me. There are 2-3 other people here posting with kg flag and one of them is a jeet.

>>216148683
Kuchma wasn't pro-russian, he was known for "multivector" and Tuzla incident happened durung his term

>>216147149 (OP)
they applied a decade earlier

Germany and France didn't want us, It was based Dubya who pushed for us
>>216147729
>have always been pretty anti-Russian
The anti-Russian sentiment only began in late 19th century with the Russification policy, and up to 1939 it could be argued that anti-German sentiment was much stronger and deeply rooted than anti-Russian seniment.
It took 1 year of communist occupation in 1940 to undo 700 years of animosity against Germans.
>>216150534
They do, or did, a lot of their soft power used to vacation Jūrmala and I could never understood why until I finally looked at the "beaches" that Sochi has. Explains why they needed Crimea so badly.

This thread was moved to >>>/pol/519718031