Thread 216470299

Did u know that in the 17th century Portugal and Spain used standardized written indigenous languages for administration and trade?
Sadly 18th-19th century European colonialism was lame and was basically trying to "enlighten" brown people by making them Eurooeanized so all these languages died.

>>216470299 (OP)
Neat.

>>216470299 (OP)
>Did u know that in the 17th century Portugal and Spain used standardized written indigenous languages for administration and trade?
It was the same Spanish and Portuguese that suppressed them eventually.

>>216470299 (OP)
Guaraní is spoken in Paraguay and in some parts of Argentina (it started dying hard though since the 70s at least)

>>216470449
Actually no.
It was the Criollos and mutts who suppressed it after the independence wars

>>216470299 (OP)
i dont get the map, are those ranges supposed to represent where each language saw administrative use? its not close to where the natives spoke those languages at all

>>216470449
Do you have proof of that? I am tired of debating people on this so I would rather you show me proof instead of me giving you information telling you how retarded you are
>>216470299 (OP)
how is this a good thing? It's a good thing if you a modern lefty and think diversity is our strength but aren't you dooming these people to learn some retarded languages nobody cares about? Its like those dumb people who see dumb african tribes and think
>NOOOO WE HAVE TO LET THE NIGGERINOS ALONE AND HAVE A MORTALITY RATE OF 30 AND LET THEM EAT ELEPHANT SHIT INSTEAD OF DEVELOP A COHERENT CUISINE BECAUSE... WE JUST HAVE TO OK?!?
Aren't you condemning those people of having the posibility to create great and competitive things with the false morality of letting them keep their culture? Look at fucking india for fucks sake.

>>216470910
There was an official decree from the crown from 16th century to the 17th to ban any language other than Spanish.

Also those "mutts" were actually full-blooded Spaniards, whom just weren't firstborns.
>>216471069
It was the same Catholic church that considered anything other than Spanish and Catholicism barbaric, even after the independence, since it was the same guys but whom just didn't want to pay taxes to the crown.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bourbon_Reforms

>>216471492
>Guarani
While Guarani, in its Classical form, was the only language spoken in the expansive missionary territories, Paraguayan Guarani has its roots outside of the Jesuit Reductions

Modern scholarship has shown that Guarani was always the primary language of colonial Paraguay, both inside and outside the reductions. Following the expulsion of the Jesuits in the 18th century, the residents of the reductions gradually migrated north and west towards Asunción, a demographic shift that brought about a decidedly one-sided shift away from the Jesuit dialect that the missionaries had curated in the southern and eastern territories of the colony.

(...) The missionaries relied on the agglutinative nature of the language to formulate new precise translations or calque terms from Guarani morphemes. This process often led the Jesuits to employ complicated, highly synthetic terms to convey European concepts. By contrast, the Guarani spoken outside of the missions was characterized by a free, unregulated flow of Hispanicisms; frequently, Spanish words and phrases were simply incorporated into Guarani with minimal phonological adaptation.
>Nahualt
In 1570, King Philip II of Spain decreed that Nahuatl should become the official language of the colonies of New Spain to facilitate communication between the Spanish and natives of the colonies. This led to Spanish missionaries teaching Nahuatl to Amerindians living as far south as Honduras and El Salvador. During the 16th and 17th centuries, Classical Nahuatl was used as a literary language; a large corpus dating to the period remains extant. They include histories, chronicles, poetry, theatrical works, Christian canonical works, ethnographic descriptions, and administrative documents. The Spanish permitted a great deal of autonomy in the local administration of Indigenous towns during this period, and in many Nahuatl-speaking towns the language was the de facto administrative language both in writing and speech.

>>216471725
(...)
A large body of Nahuatl literature was composed during this period, including the Florentine Codex, a twelve-volume compendium of Aztec culture compiled by Franciscan Bernardino de Sahagún; Crónica Mexicayotl, a chronicle of the royal lineage of Tenochtitlan by Fernando Alvarado Tezozómoc; Cantares Mexicanos, a collection of songs in Nahuatl; a Nahuatl-Spanish/Spanish-Nahuatl dictionary compiled by Alonso de Molina; and the Huei tlamahuiçoltica, a description in Nahuatl of the apparition of Our Lady of Guadalupe.
Grammars and dictionaries of Indigenous languages were composed throughout the colonial period, but their quality was highest in the initial period.[74] The friars found that learning all the Indigenous languages was impossible in practice, so they concentrated on Nahuatl. For a time, the linguistic situation in Mesoamerica remained relatively stable, but in 1696, Charles II of Spain issued a decree banning the use of any language other than Spanish throughout the Spanish Empire. In 1770, another decree, calling for the elimination of the Indigenous languages, did away with Classical Nahuatl as a literary language.[72] Until the end of the Mexican War of Independence in 1821, the Spanish courts admitted Nahuatl testimony and documentation as evidence in lawsuits, with court translators rendering it in Spanish.

While it's true it was a decree to be banned, it wasn't fucking followed as you clearly see that the spanish courts still allowed Nahualt. It's funny how the laws of Burgos were never followed but we are supposed to believe that the language bans were definitely followed even though you can see the works previously listed. Come on.

>>216471814
Throughout the modern period the situation of Indigenous languages has grown increasingly precarious in Mexico, and the numbers of speakers of virtually all Indigenous languages have dwindled. While the total number of Nahuatl speakers increased over the 20th century, Indigenous populations have become increasingly marginalized in Mexican society. In 1895, Nahuatl was spoken by over 5% of the population. By 2000, this figure had fallen to 1.49%.

For most of the 20th century, Mexican educational policy focused on the Hispanicization of Indigenous communities, teaching only Spanish and discouraging the use of Indigenous languages.

This is never adressed like how the chileans and argies never adress their genocide of the mapuche.

>>216470299 (OP)
Not all died!

>>216471725
>In 1570, King Philip II of Spain
It was used as a means to an end for Evangelization. Their goal was standardize Spanish anyway. Paraguay and guarani was an unique case, not applicable to the other languages at least in the southern cone.

>>216472141
yeah bro that's why it was used in the administration and in military. Your criollo ruled countries treated the natives like shit and now you want to pass the ball.

>>216472271
>Your criollo ruled countries treated the natives like shit and now you want to pass the ball
yeah, I know that. Those criollos and the ones who rule us even now are no different from Spaniards from colonial times.

In latam they tend to idealize the "liberators" , turns out the whole point was to stop giving taxes to the crown.