Thread 216612028

I'm not a Christian, nor religious, but I'm happy to be able to experience such a historically significant moment

they are afraid muslims wanted to conquer the most they can, again

>>216612028 (OP)
Don't ask questions and trust me, kid.

>>216612028 (OP)
I don't know what he means by that specifically, but the general statement "tradition is not conservative but creative" is generally true. Successful traditions usually adapt to changing circumstances while trying to remain true to the spirit of the tradition rather than being bullheadedly resistant to all change.

>>216612122
And thats the problem with tradition

I don't see how they're going to overcome their differences. It's not just feelings be real doctrinal issues where I don't think the Eastern churches would ever accept even the old position of Rome as a first among equals.

What I can see instead is in a century or two something like what's going on with the Anglican church and Catholicism where there's a slow cohabitation going on as the congregations stop caring and start flittering between the two churches.

>>216612249
Arguably, there's less doctrial differences between Catholics and Orthodox than Catholics and Anglicans.

>>216612028 (OP)
They are only doing this because they know they are irrelevant in the modern world and nobody gives cares what they think anymore. Should have reunited in the middle ages if they wanted anyone to give a shit.

>>216612028 (OP)
United in the fundamental heresy of the Trinity

>>216612142
whatever you do don't ctrl+f παράδοσις in the gospels

>>216612249
>I don't think the Eastern churches would ever accept even the old position of Rome as a first among equals
i daresay russia would prefer it over constantinople

>>216613001
what is The Spirit of God in genesis 1

>>216613178
The apostolic tradition is the proclamation of the risen Christ confessed in the Apostles’ Creed and contained in its entirety in the Holy Scriptures. There are no unwritten doctrines. That’s gnostic heresy.

>>216613001
This nigga still pissed about the Nicean Creed.

>>216613221
>There are no unwritten doctrines
i am not concerned with doctrines. i am concerned with truths. i hold that Christianity is an accurate description of reality. certainly there are many truths that are not in scripture; scripture does not speak to the melting point of nickel, or the number of highways in michigan. there is no reason to presume there are not any spiritual truths also not in scripture.

>>216613245
You cannot bind consciences to spiritual truths not revealed by God in Holy Scripture. Your speculative investigation into the hidden counsels of God should not be used to terrorize simple believers consciences with demands of good works beyond what is commanded. You cannot demand assent to understandings of God on pain of damnation beyond what is revealed. You cannot bury the Gospel message under Aristotelian moral philosophy, making the righteousness of God an infused virtue.

>>216613240
They never resolved it. Or rather they did and papal heretics have just been ignoring it.

>>216613281
New presbyter is but Old Priest writ large.

>>216612028 (OP)
ive been meaning to read him, maybe ill have time next year

>>216612249
orthotrad larpers would tell you that theological issues are the biggest dividers, that is not true.
the biggest issue is the orthodox define themselves as not being catholic. even if ecclesial authorities could work something out what would be in it for them? half their members would schism. where as everyone on the catholic side would be happy or ambivalent about it.

>>216612028 (OP)
how do orthodox cope with technically being the archetypal heretics, they caused all the splintering before even Luther, not even paul with all his issues with litirgical friction would sanction this shit

>>216613374
Have you been meaning to go back too?

>>216613522
The Oriental Orthodox split off first. Despite what the various church-idolater denominations will tell you, there was never an ancient undivided church. The gnostic crisis was immediate. The devil has never stopped attacking the Gospel.

>>216613556
peter was always head, of course there was conflict but no one overrode his authority, those who did were pariah

>>216613596
Neither the Bishop of Rome nor Alexandria had universal immediate jurisdiction in the early church. If there was an inherited Petrine office it certainly took quite a while to develop into recognizable form. Peter himself also did not seem to exercise any kind of monarchical authority during the Council of Jerusalem.

>>216612028 (OP)
Yeah I like the idea

>>216613635
*Antioch, not Alexandria

>>216613635
I'm not going to accuse you of historical revisionism, but ill ask you this instead, who's in charge of the church? How does the church stay unified with central authority? You think having 7 new denominations after a Bible study splits up has always been the norm? (theoretically speaking)

>>216613694
>who is in charge of the church
Jesus Christ.
>how does the church stay unified
The Holy Spirit.
>but what about denominational splits
The church is wherever the word is preached and the sacraments are rightly administered. It’s not a particular jurisdiction. Are the Gospels read, and Holy Baptism administered? It’s the church.

>>216613731
so how do you explain all the doctrinal diversity/contentions among denominations? there is a unity of spirit ideally, but theologically there is much division, thats why Christ instituted his church, the Catholic Church and the future papcy by way of peter, if no one has authority, we are all equal in credentials, which is what caused this scatter, what denomination are you btw?

>>216613694
>who's in charge of the church?
God

>>216613796
I’m a confessional Lutheran. There is division in the church for many reasons. It has been a feature of Christian history from the beginning. Gnostics, Marcionites, Montanists, Arians, Copts, Syrians, Greeks, Latins, Protestants, Pietists, Pentecostals… it never stops. Fundamentally it comes from a refusal to submit to and rest in God’s Word. Men trust in new prophets or continuing revelation, private visions, reason, anything but what God has clearly stated in His Word. Thankfully God is gracious and as long as the Word of the Triune name is attached baptism is efficacious for the forgiveness of sins. God does not damn people for being in error in non-essentials.

>>216613281
you are talking about your religion as if it is a game.

>>216613856
Your argument basically narrows down to accuracy in teaching is not very important, which is not a good principle, of course we're judged by our conscience, but the point is to be totally correct not marginally correct, or else the rrom fir error is endless

>>216613913
Doctrine is very important. I subscribe to a very thorough confession of faith. I believe the teachings of non-Lutheran churches are in many cases quite dangerous spiritually. But that doesn’t mean they’re not churches, or that we need an infallible man in Rome to teach us things that the prophets and apostles did not.

I prefer Catholics over Orthodox because they tend to be more hardcore

Orthodox allow divorce for example whereas Catholics do not

>>216613943
how do you not see Christ's appointment of Peter as something to combat specifically that, there are infinite people who will bring infinite interpretations to scripture, you're implying there is no one person or group that has authority to teach definitively, so why should anyone listen to anyone? That's the genius of the Catholic Church, it's not based on man but on the aegis of the holy spirit, protected from teaching error definitively, anything outside of it has no technical credentials

>>216614012
God has provided the Holy Scripture as the criterion of truth. We are commanded to test all doctrine against the Word. You cannot escape the Christian responsibility of discernment. Should even an angel from heaven teach another Gospel he is to be regarded as anathema. What was inspired in Peter’s teaching is recorded in Scripture.

>>216614051
And who put together scripture? Who taught you to read it? To whom do you listen to definitively to protect from error? Your method sounds like gambling, no offense

Every road away from Rome is a dead end.

>>216612581
You're out of your mind

>>216613913
>totally correct not marginally correct
You'd make a great wahhabist

>>216615346
Imagine unironically believing in Papal Infallibility

Luther was right about everything, keep your corrupt pedophile wizards and their gay castles

>>216615664
The irony of so many catholics who were enraged whenever pope francis's teachings went against their opinions. Pope is infallible <-> I don't really like the pope's teachings

>>216615664
>>216615702
>be soytestant
>doesn't know what Papal Infallibility is

>>216615761
So you agree there's no need to listen to some peed in rome? Good, you're learning

>>216612028 (OP)
>authentic tradition is not conservative
What a retard.

>>216612581
Mainline Anglicanism is just Catholicism minus the Pope. There are many branches which would make Evangelical Americans blush from how gay and libtarded they are. Anglicanism is a dozen different churches pretending to be one.

>>216615788
No, I support the idea that retarded nunfuckers don't make shit up. Papal infallibility was created in 1870, becuase that Pope was seething at the Catholic Italians for taking his land.

>>216613856
Concentrating all religious authority into the hands of one mortal and corruptible man never ends well. See all the warmonger popes and folks like John XII who were whoremongers and invited prostitutes to the Vatican, committed murder, gave out "sin exemptions", and raided their fellow Christians' land because they wanted more shekels than they already had. Protestants mog even though they have like 1000 denominations because no man has all the power so no man can beat the others over the head with his religious authority to defend his corruption and pedophilia.

Or you could just be a Muzzie and make every kind of degeneracy including pedophilia, rape, murder, theft (if they're infidels), fucking and owning slave girls, and kissing prepubescent boys' penises (Momo & Hussein story) perfectly clean and Halal and then you won't have to worry about power abuse because every kind of abuse is already legal.

American Orthodox here.
Basically all serious Orthodox see Bartholomew as a heretic.
If anything if it were to happen, the Greek churches would unite with catholicism while the rest of orthodoxy would remain. Basically another schism

>>216612028 (OP)
Nobody gives a shit.

whats the difference anyway? we all believe in Jesus

miracles don't exist
nobody has ever resurrected

>>216617973
Not all churches are equal, some are better than others.

>>216618067
SEX WITH COPTICS

>>216612028 (OP)
does this mean you will get trad wives now?

>>216617828
To elaborate on this, nobody gives a shit, thats why you try to squeeze out some dumbass who gives a shit no matter where you find him, hemce your "reunification" that nobody gives a shit about.