Touhou lore/writefag/worldbuilding thread.

Most people just tend to look at pretty pictures, but I realized in the downtime that few actual readers or writers don't have a place to discuss their stuff. So here it is.

AI-assisted or not, I don't care. If you're into this niche then you at least have some interest in Touhou lore, and you'll fit right in.

I'll post my interpretations in due time. Anyway for now, taking worldbuilding questions or requests.

>>49320790 (OP)
Isn't that why touhou-project exists?

>>49320790 (OP)
How did Kasen build her house

>>49320802
I didn't even know that place existed. Thanks for the tip.

>>49320812
Many ways. But my ideas:

- First: Finding a suitable spot. Someone like her (having the authority of a Sage and the powers of a master hermit) should know. She wouldn't just pick a random spot; she'd use her heightened hermit perception to locate a place on Youkai Mountain where natural energies converge optimally. It should be potent yet secluded. This might even be a location naturally resistant to scrying or intrusion.
- Construction via beastmastery and her own Oni strength. This is the easier part, with the small catch that she needs to supervise most things. She probably didn't inquire about outside help because, again, her mansion's location is supposed to be secret. Hermit spatial arts could allow the mansion's interior to be larger or have different properties than its exterior suggests. Rooms might shift subtly based on principles, or corridors could lead to contained natural environments suitable for specific animals. The climate control itself is a function of this managed space, with Kasen setting the parameters and the Senkai's boundaries maintaining them, like a perfectly sealed terrarium. In canon, even when a blizzard occurred outside, the area around her house was in a clearing
- Applying Fangshu (方書) to hide the mansion and turning the area into a Senkai. Fangshi (traditional fangshu practitioners) were often known for their ability to manipulate visibility, perception, and environment, both metaphorically and literally. So the idea of someone using fangshu to conceal their dwelling fits well. Examples include “path-changing” illusions (linked to Daoist control over reality/perception), “world-within-world” magic (Senkai), and control of qi flow to mask presence. Kasen utilized a combination of this to both obscure her home and turn the area around it into a pocket dimension anchored to the chosen location.

>>49321008
Thank you Kasen pro, that makes sense.

I'll mention this: I'll even do Outside World-related worldbuilding. Be warned that since there isn't basically any hard lore for it, most things outside will be headcanon/schizo.

>>49320790 (OP)

Now let's talk about something familiar inside. The village, its' roles, and its infrastructures.

Most interpretations concerning the Human Village stage it as a really tiny thing. Having the wrong sense of scale really irks me as a hobbyist, and it doesn't help that canon interpretations are also rather humble. The whole village should be at least comparable to a self-sufficient town, with access to bodies of water and farmlands. While taller buildings aren't depicted in canon, the village technically can have underground complexes.

Despite being militarily weak, the Human Village SHOULD be considered by far the most important out of the settlements in Gensokyo. There are reasons for that:
+ The most important thing is faith. Humanity's faith, fear, and belief are strong and feed youkai and gods, keeping them from fading away. This is why villagers are educated in a lot of gods, traditions, and youkai in general, for both parties' benefits.
+ It serves as an accessible place for commercial trading. The settlements in the Youkai Mountain, or the Former Hell underground, are either territorial to almost anyone, a hassle to get to, or just don't have the more common goods.

The Human Village's supply of faith and belief is crucial to the youkai and gods' survival within Gensokyo. It is because of this that assaulting, attacking, or conquering the Human Village with malicious intentions to depopulate humans is massively frowned upon; it's like poisoning a shared well. This is also probably why youkai and gods also help the Human Village from time to time. In addition, canon-wise and as noted in PMiSS, the Human Village itself is under the secret protection of the Sages.

Humans give faith, and others give back their fantastical gifts. Stories of 'humans weak and defenseless, youkai strong' are surface-level grimsokyo edge, as the real deal is obviously more nuanced than that: it's a spiritual balancing act and a symbiotic relationship. Implying that the human village is a zoo is not true. Humans in the Outside World, considered dominant beings outside of the Barrier, can live on fine without zoos. Youkai and gods, considered dominant beings inside Gensokyo, will not just die but cease to be without human faith. And the Human Village gives the most amount of faith by far because it's the main human settlement.

For casual relations, because of the above, things are more positive than they seem. For instance, we know that non-human beings can meet inside the village itself and socialize with the human populace (Hopeless Masquerade mobs support this). However, there are also multiple outside parties spying inside the village (Mamizou's staffing agency, for instance). That's completely logical because it's a very influential area.

ETIQUETTE: While visiting the Human Village, more monstrous beings want to be in disguise. Beings that look like humans are exempt from this.

MILITIA: The village should have its own militia, with guards tending to the outer perimeters and the gates. Some say that it's a thankless job in front of more powerful beings that Gensokyo is full of; others swear by their duty.

Example notable exports of the Human Village:
+ Paper and printed materials: Mostly from Suzunaan and affiliated print shops. Paper is produced from wood gathered from elsewhere.
+ Food and agricultural/aquacultural products: The primary exports. By logic, the Human Village should hold the most tangible (and conventional) farmland out of all notable settlements, making it Gensokyo's breadbasket.
+ Talismans and charms: The village's education on youkai and faith suggests a deeper knowledge of spiritual tools. While not as powerful as Reimu’s own, mass-market charms are viable.
+ Traditional crafts and goods.
+ Histories and records: The Gensokyo Chronicle counts as this. The Hieda clan is tasked with recording the history of Gensokyo. Copies of their works, or commentaries on past events, circulate in scholarly or bureaucratic circles.
+ Human-centric religious lore.
+ Festival organization and performance.
+ Booze: Popular destination for drinks because of varieties, although the Oni often dismiss their offering as swill.
+ Outsider trinkets: Forgotten or intentionally left behind as gifts. Some of them are scavenged from outsiders who met unfortunate ends.

>>49322583
Nice, I love this worldbuilding. How about something related to the farmers in the outskirts of the village?

>>49321008
sounds legit

>>49323324

Ah, the farmers.

The farmlands on the outskirts stretch outwards from the relative safety of the Human Village proper, often bordering the edges of nearby forests (like the Forest of Magic or the Great Youkai Forest) or the foothills leading towards Youkai Mountain. These lands are often more expansive and potentially more fertile than plots closer to the densely populated village center. Some areas benefit from nutrient-rich runoff from the mountain (that is also an inactive volcano) or the unique soil compositions near magical forests. However, proximity to the wilderness means increased exposure to feral youkai, wandering spirits, mischievous fairies, and, occasionally, more significant threats that stray from their usual territories. The protection offered by the village's core defenses and patrols is thinner here. Weather patterns can also be slightly more erratic, influenced by the mountain or adjacent magical zones.

These laborers’ lives revolve around the demanding rhythm of agriculture but are dictated by Gensokyo's own colorful laws. Farming is labor-intensive as always, plowing with oxen (if they can afford them) or by hand, planting, weeding, irrigating, and harvesting. Families work together, often from sunrise to sunset during peak seasons. They cultivate the staples needed by the village like rice, various vegetables (daikon, carrots, onions, cabbage, cucumbers), basedbeans, and perhaps some grains like barley or millet. Due to their location and sometimes divine assistance, they might also grow hardier root vegetables, specific types of mountain greens, or even experiment with slightly more unusual crops that thrive in the transitional zones. Some specialize in fruits suited to the climate.

Raising chickens, ducks, and perhaps a few pigs or goats is common for eggs, meat, and manure. Larger livestock like cattle are rarer and a sign of relative prosperity due to the demands of space for grazing. Aquaculture in small, managed ponds might exist, focusing on resilient freshwater fish.

While primarily using mundane techniques, the human farmers may incorporate practical folk magic and rituals. Simple protective charms are common on property lines and buildings. They observe local traditions tied to planting and harvest cycles, often involving small offerings to local spirits or deities.

The challenges they face are varied. Youkai encounters are their most significant daily concerns. While powerful youkai rarely target the village directly (due to the balance and Reimu's enforcement), the outskirts are fair game for lesser, opportunistic threats. Feral beasts might raid crops or livestock. Mischievous fairies can cause endless minor annoyances (tangling tools, spoiling small amounts of food, leading travelers astray). Occasionally, a more dangerous youkai might wander through, requiring farmers to hide or rely on patrols/protectors. They face not only mundane pests (insects, rodents, birds, weeds, etc.) but also their supernatural variants (crop-draining spirits, for example). Village guard patrols are less frequent this far out. Farmers rely more on self-sufficiency, community watchfulness among neighbors, basic self-defense knowledge, and robustly built (though simple) homes and fences. Loud noises, bright lights (lanterns, bonfires), and specific talismans are common deterrents. Some can even have basic spell or danmaku training. Being further from the village center means slower access to markets, aid, and social life. News travels slower. During bad weather or minor incidents, they can be cut off temporarily.

Their proximity to Youkai Mountain and their vital role in food production make them recipients of attention from certain deities, like the Moriya Shrine duo or Minoriko Aki. Kanako and Suwako’s influence is invaluable, but the Goddess of Abundant Harvest is perhaps the most personally involved deity for farmers. They hold her in high regard, especially during autumn. She is invited to harvest festivals where she personally blesses the yields. Farmers cultivating specific crops she favors (like her beloved sweet potatoes) might receive extra attention, resulting in exceptionally high-quality produce sought after in the village market. Her presence is believed to directly ward off blights and ensure bountiful harvests. Her relationship is direct, approachable, and deeply tied to the success of their livelihood.

How does the SDM's trade with the Human Village go? I imagine they have to get their luxury food and stuff somehow.

>>49320802
>>49321008
>that place existed
?

>>49326206
canonically? the very unimpressive answer is just that sakuya does the shopping (as presumably you can't trust fairies to do that)
she can manipulate time and space, so it's probably not too hard for her to accomplish shopping for a mansion that big just by herself.
you can try and come up with fanon explanations, but the problem is when you've got a character with powers like sakuya's, basically every fanon explanation ends up being less efficient than the canon one

>>49326221
Well, do they produce anything and sell it at the village then?

>>49322583
What's the population of the Human Village, and how are the population numbers kept in check?

>>49326231
Also, what's the economy of the SDM? Do they have any income or is teh Remi's inheritance that big? Does Sakuya pay at the village with XIXth century Francs, gold or her body?

>>49326290
(misquote, this is the real one regarding population)

While no concrete census data is readily available (record-keeping, while present thanks to the Hieda clan, isn't quite up to Outside World bureaucratic standards), estimates based on the village's description, importance, and observed activity place the population somewhere in the low-to-bottom myriads (or, if you find that too many, mid-to-high thousands). It's substantial enough to be the undisputed center of human life and culture in Gensokyo, capable of supporting various trades, at least one temple school, and shops and sustaining its role as the primary source of faith, but it's not a sprawling metropolis by any measure.

There isn't a single, top-down edict controlling population numbers like in some modern states. Instead, the Human Village's population is kept relatively stable through a complex interplay of factors inherent to Gensokyo's nature. For instance, the faith economy is paramount. The youkai and gods need a stable, believing human population to sustain themselves. Wiping out the village or letting it dwindle would be self-destructive for the supernatural inhabitants. This creates a powerful incentive for non-interference or even indirect protection. Humans provide faith; the supernatural provides the fantastical reality and, implicitly, a degree of security from total annihilation by rogue elements.

Beyond the main element...

Despite Gensokyo's magic, the village operates largely on traditional agriculture, aquaculture, and trade. Land is finite, and while farming methods might be enhanced by proximity to magical energies or borrowed techniques, there are natural limits to how many people the immediate surroundings can support without significant (and currently unavailable) technological leaps in food production or logistics.

The presence of competent healers like Unshou Takatori provides a significant improvement over truly historical settings, reducing mortality from common injuries and illnesses. Access to Eientei's advanced medicine, while expensive, offers solutions for more severe cases, further bolstering survival rates. This prevents drastic population collapses due to disease.

Reimu Hakurei's strict enforcement against Human Villagers willingly becoming youkai serves (Jinyou) as a crucial, albeit harsh, form of population control. It prevents a drain of humans into the youkai populace, preserving the vital human element needed for the faith balance. It reinforces the fundamental human/youkai distinction upon which Gensokyo rests.

While primarily bringing objects, occasional outsiders are spirited in. While most are returned after memory wipes, it represents a minor, unpredictable influx. Some individuals might integrate, slightly offsetting losses.

And last but not least, while not micromanaging birth rates, figures like Yukari Yakumo undoubtedly monitor the village's health as part of maintaining Gensokyo's overall balance. Her recent proposals for unconventional land expansion might even suggest an anticipation of future population pressures or a desire for controlled growth zones.

>>49326231
>>49326290
(repost to fix formatting.)

This is easy enough.

The primary income and cornerstone source of the Scarlet Devil Mansion’s economy is the highly successful Western-style wine business. Canonically, the household should have access to their own wine and even gardens producing fruit for it (taken from official print works' depictions).

This success is largely thanks to Sakuya Izayoi. Her unique ability to manipulate time allows for perfectly controlled and accelerated fermentation, essentially enabling mass production on demand. Given Gensokyo's deep-seated culture around alcohol, the demand for high-quality, unique Western wines is substantial. The SDM, being the exclusive producer of such beverages in the realm, effectively holds a lucrative monopoly. This venture is so profitable that the mansion's coffers are described as overfilled, allowing Remilia to fund her extravagant lifestyle, import modern gadgets, and even procure "gourmet blood" from the Outside World.

While not explicitly quantified, it's strongly implied that House Scarlet possessed significant ancestral wealth before arriving in Gensokyo, allowing them to build and transport the mansion initially. However, Remilia and Flandre’s share was cut very short by circumstances regarding the House’s rapid decline and eventual fiery fall back in London. This comparatively meager share was used to sustain their journey and escape across the globe to the East, and it was also leaned on to build the original Scarlet Devil Mansion in honor of House Scarlet's main estate along the way. The building and transportation were, again, handled by Patchouli, with numerous renovations and repairs afterward overseen by Remilia (as Flandre was still too broken to function normally). Meiling's eventual recruitment deep within China's mainland helped the younger mistress open up again, largely because of the gatekeeper's friendly company.

The ongoing financial stability and extravagance appear to be primarily sustained by the active wine business. Not even Remilia's wasteful whimsies are capable of denting it. Beyond wine, the SDM leverages its unique residents and resources to offer several niche, high-value goods and services:

- Potions and spell components crafted by Patchouli Knowledge. These are potent but sold under strict non-liability clauses. Commission slots are rare.

- Arcane papers repurposed from unstable or damaged books within Voile, suitable for enchanting or holding spells.

- Enchanted incense and candles used for rituals or high-end atmospheric additions to parties. Smells like forbidden tomes and old aristocracy.

- Luxury Western confectionery made by Sakuya, with a rotating selection of sweets, sometimes with unique (vampiric) twists.

- Private arcane consultation. Access to Patchouli Knowledge's expertise in magical theory or even Sakuya's knowledge of time manipulation. Extremely expensive.

- Carefully selected, safe-for-public Voile-licensed reprints from the vast Voile library, aimed at aspiring magicians or scholars.

- While primarily served during parties hosted (making them a draw rather than a direct export), the quality of the high-tier Western cuisine of the mansion is renowned throughout Gensokyo.

Patchouli officially serves as the accountant, though she delegates much of the day-to-day work to her assistant, Koakuma.

Sakuya Izayoi is indispensable, not just for production but also for managing the wine cellar and likely logistics. Few wonder where her monstrous stamina comes from.

>>49320790 (OP)
Excellent, just the thread I needed, will use every post posted here for the fanfic Im planning, and will probably make another one when I finally get to actually write it in a year or so.

Right now I only have one specific question, well, technically 2. Which youkai are the ones that dont feed on human flesh to survive? And what is the "moral" allignment, if they have one? Taking as example Kogasa because shes a pivotal character in the trashfic, she uses humans as substenance, yes, but she feeds on their spooks, or "fear" as she gaslights herself to call it, and shes a fairly "good" character for youkai standards, maybe not that good with kids but is actually reasonable and can get along with humans if they feed her the attention she wants (still researching though, those are so far the notes I have on her, subject to change and feel free to correct my interpretation).

>>49327491
Sakuya truly does everything, the Remilia and Flandre are useless NEET parasites.

>>49327516
The idea that all youkai must consume human flesh to survive is a misconception, especially within the context of modern Gensokyo. While predation was more common before the Great Hakurei Barrier (the forming of 'modern' Gensokyo) and the Spell Card Rules, many youkai species sustain themselves through entirely different means. Youkai who don't know of the rules (due to being feral, being too uninformed or being newly born) aren't expected to uphold the status quo, and thus, might eat humans (if their hunts succeed). It mostly depends.

Kogasa, a karakasa obake (umbrella tsukumogami), feeds on human surprise or fear. Tsukumogami, being born from discarded objects, often seek relevance, attention, or vengeance related to their past treatment. Their sustenance is tied to emotional responses or fulfilling the purpose implied by their legend (like Kogasa trying to spook people). They don't need physical flesh in the usual depictions.

Nue Houjuu, who also stays under the Myouren Temple's roofs, is similar. A Nue (at least based on her) thrives on ambiguity and confusion. Her ability makes things unidentifiable, causing unease or fear derived from the unknown. She sustains herself on this conceptual disruption. But since she's more ancient, it's unknown if she is capable of (or if she needs) physical consumption or not.

Someone outside of the Myouren Temple altogether is Urumi Ushizaki, who has a legitimate business at the Sanzu running a renowned fishery concerning prehistoric fish (canon). Based on the more bloody legend she came from, though she was once a fearsome youkai who attacked humans, she now leads a peaceful life. She might sometimes turn lost travelers back from the river, serving as an outer perimeter guard. She sees this duty as a civic responsibility to turn foolish individuals back before they meet a worse fate.

Assigning human D&D-style "alignments" to Gensokyo residents is tricky. Morality is highly contextual and often based on maintaining the balance between humans and youkai, upholding traditions, and adhering (even loosely) to the Spell Card Rules. Many youkai simply act according to their inherent nature. A fear-eating youkai needs to incite fear; a trickster youkai needs to pull pranks. This isn't necessarily "evil" in their context, just fulfilling their existential role (like animals serving as prey and predator in an ecosystem). The greatest "sin" is often upsetting the delicate balance. Youkai range from those actively seeking coexistence (like the Myouren Temple crew, allegedly) to those indifferent to humans unless provoked to those who might still pose a threat if encountered outside safe zones (though outright killing is heavily discouraged and punished).

Kogasa is driven by a Tsukumogami's need for relevance and attention after being discarded. Her desire to be useful (blacksmithing) points towards integration rather than destruction. She has prankster tendencies (attempting scares) but is ultimately harmless and even pitiable when she fails. She also engages positively with humans through her craft. She most definitely leans toward Good (by youkai standards).

>>49327580
Remilia and Flandre being useless NEETs is one of their charm points.

>>49326220
touhou-project.com
It's pretty quiet but back when quests were being clamped down a lot of writers went there.

>>49327628
Yuyuko is implied to eat human meat in AFiEU.

>>49327753
Ah yes, and Aya is very well known for incredibly unbiased and truthful reporting.

Anything presented in AFiEU should be taken with barrels of salt, and even Aya was implied to find the whole thing too much and left it eventually cancelled and unpublished. Maybe Aya left it unpublished because she fears being eaten like Mystia.

「肉丼」could simply be written as 肉丼 without the 「」(she totally would twist things). This phrasing is deliberately ambiguous and open to interpretation, a veiled, dark-humor reference to human meat, playing on Yuyuko's deathly nature and immense appetite. The print work is written by a youkai in-setting, after all. "That meat" is also left ambiguous and can be left as normal without the additional emphasis, but that's not how Aya plays. It's entirely possible Aya included or phrased Yuyuko's column this way specifically to create speculation and controversy for her publication.

Another note: supposedly, Yuyuko got the recipe from Sumireko (a human), and Youmu made the dish. Outside of fanon context (zounose), those don't give out canonical hints that they eat human meat, thus lowering the chance. While Yuyuko is a ghost (a former human) and not technically a youkai, her role as administrator of Hakugyokurou implies a level of responsibility. In addition to normal rules regarding indiscriminate killing, she also serves under Eiki.

>>49322583
>Stories of 'humans weak and defenseless, youkai strong' are surface-level grimsokyo edge, as the real deal is obviously more nuanced than that: it's a spiritual balancing act and a symbiotic relationship. Implying that the human village is a zoo is not true.
You say that, then immediately support grimfaggotry introduced in WaHH, SoPM and FS, as if it doesn't make the village into a holding pen: >>49327481
And here I thought this thread was going to be good.

>>49327946
>>49327481
Guys...the Grimsokyo argument was settled for good when ZUN!! decided we needed to see Mizuchi getting brutally raped, murdered and eaten while still alive. Quit fighting over it already, it's done.

>>49327946
GrimsokyoGODS won, cutesokyo lost, lewdsokyo lost, KEKsokyo lost harder. We are canon and you are NOT.

>>49322583
average human village militia

>>49327946
I didn't contradict myself if you're focusing on that part. I think you're angry at me for acknowledging the fortune teller debacle. I'll bite because I anticipated the grimsokyo argument, but one time only, and to clarify my interpretations.

Reimu’s role isn’t just to maintain peace. It’s to maintain the balance between humans and youkai. That balance depends on the belief that humans and youkai are fundamentally distinct. The rule isn't just about keeping humans human for the sake of it. It's about preserving the fundamental distinction between human and youkai. If that line blurs significantly (humans becoming youkai en masse), the entire faith-based system that sustains Gensokyo could collapse. It's a drastic measure to protect the ecosystem's integrity, preventing a metaphysical catastrophe that would harm everyone, youkai included. It is population category control vital for the realm's specific function.

Let's have some examples when this topic is touched upon. For Marisa, she isn't really considered a Human Villager in my opinion. The same goes for cases like Rinnosuke. They had been living outside of the village even before the Spell Card Rules were made. Marisa left long ago and met Reimu before the whole danmaku thing came to be. Kourin also didn't choose to be born half-and-half, while the fortune teller left his humanity behind by his own will while explicitly living inside the village. It’s about origin and intent, specifically for those tied to the Village. The act of a villager willingly becoming youkai is the transgression, and their personal motives after the fact don't change the initial breach. Marisa and Rinnosuke were already outside that specific context when they became what they are. They weren't abandoning the Village's side of the pact because they were never truly part of it in that same way, not by the time their paths diverged.

Lack of malicious intent and retained humanity also warrant mercy. Kosuzu's near-transformation into a youkai was driven entirely by the Night Parade of One Hundred Demons scroll’s power, not by any conscious choice on her part​. People even worked together to ensure the youkai fragment could be expelled safely so that Reimu could save Kosuzu rather than slay her.

The core idea remains: Youkai and Gods need human faith/fear to exist. Humans, in turn, live in a world shielded from the Outside World's disbelief and benefit from the unique reality Gensokyo offers (incident resolution, relative peace compared to pre-Barrier times, access to unique goods/services, longer average lifespans due to healers like Unshou and Eientei). It's a managed symbiosis. A zoo implies a one-sided benefit for the keepers; here, while the power dynamic is skewed (as Gensokyo was made initially for youkai and fantasy preservation), both sides derive something essential for their existence.

I somewhat understand this: that loaded sentiment spawned from later works' introduction of darker, more controlling elements is accurate. This doesn't necessarily erase the earlier whimsical tone or reduce the setting only to grimness. It adds layers. Gensokyo can be both a place of playful danmaku battles and a place with harsh, necessary rules for its survival. The "grim" elements aren't there just for edge; they explore the consequences and costs of maintaining a fantasy paradise. How do you preserve belief? How do you manage coexistence between fundamentally different beings? The answers aren't constants, involving controversial choices and strict enforcement. No black and white here.

>>49328080
I don't wish to derail this thread further, and it seems I unfortunately opened the gates for dbscucks, sorry about that.
All that I'll say is that I disagree with you. The new lore made the setting shallower, retroactively made previous and following whimsical elements seem darker or not enough to compensate, and made the conflict more black and white instead of less. I just wish more people utilised the freedom to ignore ZUN's bad takes, like they claim to do but never deliver, at least the way I see it.

>>49328136
Understandable, I happen to have a few personal irks myself.

As a hobbyist, I think ZUN's original writing has much to be desired. It is expected because he uses the setting to deliver the music and the gameplay, which, from what I can tell, he actually enjoys making. Plot and story are secondary from what I can tell, as he leaned on using the aesthetics and meaning of danmaku gameplay and music as the primary vehicle for storytelling and character development. However, because of that, his 'serious' storytelling skill suffers (evident from both SSiB and CDS, both 'serious' print works that were perceived like they were experimental pieces).

I sometimes think about what would happen if he focused more on building up the world outside of the Great Hakurei Barrier instead of the random pivots in recent years. I even have a personal digital lore shelf containing notes of my own schizo headcanon for the U.S. (with Florida being the containment zone), Russia (weird magitech), or China (extremely stereotypical cultivators). Even the Vatican is there.

>>49320790 (OP)
2hus drink tea all the time. Does Gensokyo have a large enough plantation to support all that consumption or do they somehow "import" it?

>>49328467
They drink tea as much as booze. Gensokyo features varied environments, including mountains (like the Youkai Mountain), forests, and the Human Village which engages in agriculture. Rather than one vast “tea estate,” Gensokyo’s tea comes from the entire realm itself, most locally grown

The Youkai Mountain, with its fertile volcanic soil and varied altitudes, provides suitable conditions for growing a large amount of high-quality tea, particularly unique high-altitude varieties enjoyed by the tengu and potentially traded elsewhere. The kappa, again, can grow their own variants inside watery territories, quality and quantity supported by their technological innovations. This likely caters to the tastes of youkai and those living on the mountain.

The Human Village cultivates common tea varieties, particularly those for Japanese green tea (which seems to be the most common type depicted), that can thrive in such environments. This would form the staple, everyday tea consumed by many residents. The availability of cheap tea supports this idea of readily available, locally produced common tea. There are families raking it in just by producing specific brews.

The Scarlet Devil Mansion, known for Western luxuries and having vast coffers, might "import" specific European tea blends (like Earl Grey or others suited for Western-style tea service) for their own consumption and parties.

The underground's environment seems less suited for standard tea plants compared to the surface conditions preferred by the Human Village or the specific high-altitude varieties grown by Youkai Mountain denizens. Its' culture, heavily influenced by the oni, emphasizes strong liquor. While not mutually exclusive, the primary beverage focus appears to be alcohol rather than tea.

The Spiriting Away phenomenon could occasionally bring in packets or tins of tea that have been forgotten in the Outside World, but this is minor.

Gensokyo isn't solely reliant on imports for its tea, although the option should be available somewhere. It must have robust domestic production; else Reimu wouldn't be chugging it without killing her wallet even more. Reimu drinks tea like water. She’s broke. Therefore, tea must be cheap. Cheapness implies local production, not expensive imports.

>>49322583
I wonder how much do the human village know about this symbiotic relationship between humans and yokais/gods and the whole faith thing, i'm pretty sure they are mostly clueless, I also wonder about if it's possible for a human from gensokyo to go to the outside world somehow, I believe outsiders can go out by going to the hakurei shrine but I'm not completely sure of everything.

You guys got anything regarding moon capital life? Especially from the perspective of a moon rabbit? I am considering writing a fanfic revolving around Rei'sen but I also wanna establish some worldbuilding setting that doesn't deviate much from canon. For example, since ZUN said that the moon capital was inspired off China, I was thinking of making it like a Chinese hyper-surveillance megapolis but I don't know if that fits well.

>>49328763
The hyper-surveillance concept fits quite well within the framework of the Lunar Capital's culture, which values absolute Purity, order, and control above all else.

Imagine a city of breathtaking beauty, gleaming white and silver structures blending hyper-advanced technology with traditional Eastern architecture. Everything is impeccably clean, orderly, and seemingly perfect, reflecting the Lunarian obsession with Purity [Purity/Impurity]. However, this perfection feels sterile and unchanging. There are no seasons, no decay, just an eternal, static present within a Pure Land. For a rabbit, it's less a home and more a meticulously maintained, beautiful enclosure. Technology is seamlessly woven into the environment, often invisibly. Surfaces might subtly monitor passersby, atmospheric regulators ensure constant Purity levels, and soft chimes or lights guide movement and enforce schedules.

A Moon Rabbit's life is defined by duty. They exist to serve the Lunarians. Days are highly regimented, filled with tasks like farming specialized lunar crops, compounding medicines (perhaps under Eirin's old systems), maintaining equipment, cleaning, or military training under commanders like Yorihime. Activities like pounding mochi in unison for the imprisoned goddess Chang'e are both a cultural ritual and a reminder of their collective identity and subservience. Chang'e is likely the only high-status figure most lunar rabbits feel genuine affection for, given her kindness from being born as an earthling (thus, she doesn't have the usual Lunarian prejudices for moon rabbits). Rabbits on the Moon might have designated communal areas, but true privacy is likely non-existent (mirroring surveillance states on Earth). Their innate telepathy fosters unity amongst themselves but also potentially facilitates oversight.

Surveillance wouldn't just be cameras. Advanced sensors are embedded everywhere, tracking movement, vital signs, and perhaps even basic emotional states via subtle energy readings. Access to areas is likely controlled by biometric or identity markers. Every action might be logged in vast data repositories. Lunarian overseers are a constant presence. Rabbits are conditioned to report any deviation from norms, either out of ingrained duty or fear. The Watatsuki sisters, particularly the stern Yorihime, represent the ever-watchful eye of authority. Toyohime's softer approach might offer rare moments of leniency but doesn't change the system.

The shared telepathic network is a double-edged sword. While it allows efficient communication and coordination, it's conceivable that Lunarian authorities (perhaps specialists or even the Watatsukis themselves) can monitor the network for widespread dissent, strong negative emotions, or 'impure' thoughts. Rabbits likely practice a form of mental self-censorship.

The goal of this surveillance isn't just political control; it's intrinsically tied to maintaining the Purity of the Capital [Purity/Impurity, Lunarians]. Any thought or action deemed 'impure,' like expressing strong negative emotions, questioning authority, showing excessive interest in Earth, or slacking off, could be flagged. Punishment might range from re-education and harsher duties to, in extreme cases, being 'reprocessed.'

Given their ongoing effort to spy on Earth (leading to some sort of shadow war?), the history of exiles (like Eirin, Kaguya and even before), and the single successful invasion by Junko/Hecatia, paranoia about external threats and internal dissent would be high, justifying intense security measures.

These combined can have very notable psychological impacts on a Moon Rabbit:
- Rabbits are raised in an environment where conformity is paramount. Individuality is suppressed in favor of the collective good and service to Lunarians. Expressing unique desires or dissenting opinions is dangerous.
- The instinctive duty to serve Lunarians clashes with any nascent personal desires for freedom or self-determination. This internal conflict could be a major source of angst.
- While their telepathy smooths over internal conflicts (among fellow rabbits only), there's an underlying fear of their masters and a quiet resignation to their second-class status. They know they are tools, albeit valued ones in some cases.
- For some, the pressure cooker of constant surveillance and suppressed desires would fuel a deep yearning for escape not just physically, but mentally and emotionally. Earth, despite its Impurity, represents chaos, change, and the freedom the Lunar Capital denies. This is why some moon rabbits, like Ringo and Seiran, deserted.

Rei'sen, being the pet of the Watatsuki sisters and presumably a competent soldier, likely experiences a slightly elevated status but will still be subjected to the same system. Perhaps her proximity to the command structure gives her glimpses of the system's true extent or its inherent unfairness.

>>49328748
Important figures like Akyuu or Keine definitely know. They should possess a clear, explicit understanding of the fundamental relationship between human faith/belief/fear and the existence/power of youkai and gods by being historical intellectuals.

Village elders like Kosuzu's grandfather, Marisa's father, and Unshou, through their long lives, experiences, and positions, would also grasp these concepts well. They understand the necessity of this balance for Gensokyo's stability.

For the general populace of the Human Village, the understanding is likely more implicit and practical than deeply theoretical:
- They grow up with stories, festivals, traditions, and warnings about youkai and gods. They know visiting shrines, offering prayers, and participating in rituals is important. They know disrespecting sacred places or powerful beings invites trouble. This knowledge is baked into their culture and daily lives.
- They understand the consequences of the system. If faith in a local deity wanes, perhaps blessings become scarce. If fear of a certain youkai diminishes too much, it might become bolder or weaker, potentially upsetting the local balance. They see the results without necessarily dissecting the intricate "faith-as-fuel" mechanics.
- The Hieda Temple School, where Keine teaches, likely incorporates basic lessons about Gensokyo's nature, the importance of the Barrier, the roles of gods and youkai, and the need for coexistence and respect (which translates to maintaining faith/belief). The Gensokyo Chronicle itself, while having a human bias, documents many youkai and gods, implicitly reinforcing their reality and dependence on perception.
- Finally, it's part of Gensokyo's unique "common sense." You don't question why praying helps; you just know it's the proper thing to do for certain outcomes. You don't analyze how fear empowers a specific youkai; you just know not to provoke it needlessly.

So, while most villagers might not articulate it like a scholar, they operate within the rules of this symbiotic relationship daily. They understand their role in maintaining the balance through their beliefs and actions, even if it's just "how things are done."

As for the Gensokyo humans going to the Outside World part... this is significantly harder and rarer than outsiders entering Gensokyo:
- The Great Hakurei Barrier's primary function is to contain fantasy and separate it from the mundane Outside World. It naturally resists passage outward for beings native to or fully integrated into Gensokyo's reality.
- The Hakurei Shrine, while being the main gateway, functions heavily towards managing incoming elements (like spiriting away) and returning outsiders. Reimu can escort outsiders back out, usually after a memory wipe. It's not depicted as a standard emigration point for Gensokyo natives. Theoretically, could Reimu allow a native to pass through? Perhaps, under extreme duress or for a specific, vital purpose related to the Barrier itself, but it's far from a casual option and likely goes against the fundamental purpose of her role and the Barrier. Perhaps she could be convinced to do so with an exorbitant bribe?
- As beings with clearance to traverse the Barrier, Yukari, Okina, and Kasen could transport a Gensokyo human to the Outside World. Yukari is the most capable, but her motives are inscrutable. She would only do it if it served a specific, likely complex, purpose within her own grand designs. It wouldn't be a simple taxi service. Kasen might consider it if she believed it was ethically necessary for an individual's safety or destiny, but it would be an extraordinary exception. Okina would likely only do it for reasons beneficial to herself, wrapped in layers of manipulation or obscure bargains.
- Special cases like outsiders (Maribel, Renko, Sumireko) pulling a Gensokyan into their world.

A Gensokyo human in the modern Outside World would be completely out of place, lacking understanding of the technology, culture, and the lack of ambient magic/faith. They might even suffer physically or mentally from the disconnect. Leaving is technically possible, but it's exceptionally rare, requires extraordinary circumstances, and runs counter to the very reason Gensokyo exists. The average villager has virtually no means, knowledge or reason to even consider attempting it.

>>49329056
This is great. I recently beat LoLK as Reisen and in the ending, Eirin mentions that Rabbits can be used to overthrow Chang'e which is why the events of LoLK must not be told to other moon rabbits.
This, combined with that one chapter in Cage in Lunatic Runagate where Rei'sen was reminiscing about her days of being a nameless moon rabbit pounding mochi who realized the sterile lifestyle without purpose she had which lead her to attempting to flee, gave me an idea on a story where Rei'sen has to face some kind of moon rabbit revolt as the pet of the Watatsuki sisters, and at the same time a fellow rabbit that sympathises with the feelings of the rebel rabbits but must place her duty as a soldier first.

What is Patchouli's actual weight and why is it at least 250 pounds?

>>49328080
> It's a managed symbiosis
It's not. They would have all of that if they lived outside Gensokyo. The only real benefit they have was avoiding World war 2. They have way, WAY bigger selection of goods in the outside world. Their lifespan is probably equal if not higher considering Eirin is the only doctor around.

> Gensokyo can be both a place of playful danmaku battles and a place with harsh, necessary rules for its surviva
It can be... if you assume the main characters are awful terrible people keeping people trapped against their will for their own benefit. I don't quite believe that, at least in the case of Reimu and Marisa (The sages other than Kasen are monsters, Youkai are nearly all sociopathic and evil on a fundamental level, the gods are selfish and cruel). Otherwise, I don't entirely disagree. The issue to me is that Gensokyo is just bad nowadays for Humans. This isn't like Perfect Memento where you could almost make a case for Gensokyo not being a bad place for your average human villager. What really doesn't help matters however is that most of the human village just isn't characterized period. The closest we really get are the two regulars in manga. Even then, how their society functions simply isn't really something ZUN cares to write about.

As somebody who personally does I basically ended up with "Anarcho capitalist ruralism". With powerful merchant families tied to Youkai being the closest equivalent of a central government and generally being the people keeping everything going. It's also very corrupt, with poverty and illiteracy being fairly epidemic and nepotism being the only path of social progress. At the same time, I also kept a bunch of old stuff that is currently in canon limbo like magician being a viable career path and the two actually having youkai exterminators. So, frankly, I would honestly say it's less grimdark than canon.

>>49329513
>The sages other than Kasen are monsters
Kasen is just as evil ad Yukari and the Aki sisters or any other god don't kid yourself.

where's Mima...

>>49329273
Where did ZUN say that outsiders have their memory wiped before being returned?

>>49330832
nowhere, it just the very logical conclusion in the case the outsider returns to his world. the sages don't want loose ends concerning the existence of gensokyo.

>>49330856
Sumireko seems to remember Gensokyo. Then again, she entered through loophole using her dreams rather than physically appearing there.
Doesn't Mamizou exit and re-enter Gensokyo multiple times though?

>>49330875
>Mamizou
pointless, she is a greater youkai, not a clueless outsider Salaryman

What are the fruits and vegetables that grow in Gensokyo? Besides potatoes, what other things from outside japan grow there?

>>49330875
>>49330856
What about outsiders that choose to stay and live there for a long time? We know there are a few of those madmen that dont go back when Reimu catches them, if they return, would they too have their memories erased by Okina (the only useful sage)?

>>49331388
Persimmons at plums at a bare minimum exist, they've both been depicted before.

>>49328028
>>49327963
>>49327946
The line of argumentation that:
>Mizuchi got trapped and brutally killed by Youkai, therefore Grimsokyo is real!
Doesn't make sense to me.
Nobody is saying that Youkai didn't do horrific things prior to the founding of Gensokyo and Mizuchi was killed because she was running a red flag operation ATTACKING HUMANS.

I like to imagine that Mizuchi tried to possess Youmu but couldn't because of pic related's case

>>49331518
My wife is so cool she would be able to use the Muramasa without being driven mad by its bloodthirst.
Girl is a natural bhuddist and doesnt know it, tremble with terror Byakuren, you are finished.

>>49331391
They simply integrate but face curiosities and mistrust. While the villagers provide immediate safety, long-term integration is difficult, having to fight against systemic design, cultural and ontological differences, and social acceptance. An outsider is an anomaly, potentially attracting unwanted attention or suspicion. Integration isn't impossible, but it would require highly unusual circumstances or a combination of smarts and luck from the outsider.
A normal outsider can potentially choose more radical paths of integrating, like living outside of the village. Without the innate protections or learned skills of Gensokyo residents and lacking the initial protection of the Spell Card Rules, an outsider remains significantly more vulnerable than natives. He might want to keep his outsider status a secret because of this and find suitable strong patrons to work under in the early years.
There shouldn't be anyone actively hunting down outsiders to boot them out. Reimu and Yukari have other priorities, unless Reimu is being paid handsomely to be ICE.
Now that I think about it, a Gensokyo ICE would be hilarious.
>>49331476
A lot of people (intentionally or not) missed this fact, yeah. Mizuchi even pretended to be a youkai herself, launching false flag (correct term) attacks on the humans to incite humans into militarizing against youkai. This detail makes her case significantly less sympathetic. She was simply a radical.

>>49332151
>They simply integrate but face curiosities and mistrust. While the villagers provide immediate safety, long-term integration is difficult, having to fight against systemic design, cultural and ontological differences, and social acceptance. An outsider is an anomaly, potentially attracting unwanted attention or suspicion. Integration isn't impossible, but it would require highly unusual circumstances or a combination of smarts and luck from the outsider.
>A normal outsider can potentially choose more radical paths of integrating, like living outside of the village. Without the innate protections or learned skills of Gensokyo residents and lacking the initial protection of the Spell Card Rules, an outsider remains significantly more vulnerable than natives. He might want to keep his outsider status a secret because of this and find suitable strong patrons to work under in the early years.
So my hunch and research was correct, good.
I still need a clarification on the memory wipe thing though, its important for me specifically.
Assume an outsider managed to get away with living in Gensokyo, mostly hidden from anyone important (lets pretend for a second here that Yukaris crows arent a thing anymore), and that outsider knows how to cross the barrier (I know its impossible but bear with me), does leaving the barrier as a normal human erase your memories? Like because its a barrier of common sense or something like that? Or is it someone like Okina that sees you and says "nah mate this aint happened, now fuck off" and Men in Blacks you into forgetting everything?

>>49332346
My take here.

The Great Hakurei Barrier is often described as a "boundary of common sense." Its primary function is to separate the mundane, scientific reality of the Outside World from the fantastical realm of Gensokyo. It actively prevents unauthorized passage, particularly for those trying to leave Gensokyo. They often find themselves looping back, unable to breach the boundary. This suggests the barrier's main effect isn't passive memory erasure upon crossing, but rather active containment and reality separation.

If an outsider did manage to cross back into the Outside World without undergoing the official evacuation process, he wouldn't necessarily suffer an instantaneous, clean memory wipe solely from passing through the barrier. However, the return to a world operating under strict "common sense" would create cognitive dissonance. The memories of Gensokyo, a land of magic, youkai, and gods, would clash with the mundane reality he has returned to. Much like a vivid dream fading upon waking, these fantastical memories might become suppressed, fragmented, or rationalized away by the individual's mind as unbelievable delusions or dreams to maintain coherence within the Outside World's framework. It would likely be a gradual erosion or compartmentalization rather than a sudden blank slate. It should not and would not be just as seamless as a portal transition or going through a revolving door. It must require an enormous will or drive to retain those memories. Maybe you can brainstorm up some plausible reasons why someone like Sumereko is able to maintain her psyche.

Active intervention is the far more likely outcome. The Sages, particularly Yukari Yakumo (as the barrier's creator and maintainer) and Okina Matara (with her ability to appear anywhere via back doors), have a vested interest in maintaining the separation and secrecy of Gensokyo. An unauthorized individual successfully crossing the barrier back into the Outside World with his memories intact represents a significant breach of the masquerade. It's highly probable that such an event would be detected. While the Great Hakurei Barrier isn't a digital firewall spitting out log files, thinking of it as a highly advanced, magical security system with detection capabilities is an accurate analogy. It's almost inconceivable that a significant event like an unauthorized individual breaching the Barrier outwards, especially one carrying the "contaminant" of intact Gensokyo memories, wouldn't register at least on one Sage's senses.

- Yukari, with her deep connection to boundaries, would likely sense such a transgression. She's essentially the system administrator with root access.
- Okina, with her own network (the zashiki-warashi for instance) and penchant for observing things unseen, might also notice.

In such a case, intervention would be swift. It wouldn't necessarily be the barrier itself wiping the memory, but rather an enforcer, like Yukari, Okina, or perhaps even Reimu if alerted, actively stepping in. A direct confrontation, a subtle manipulation, or a gap/door opening unexpectedly. Leaving loose ends concerning outsiders doesn't mesh well with maintaining Gensokyo's secrecy. Things must be resolved one way or another.

>>49332528
You make some good points indeed, I will take those into consideration, but I have to apologize, because this only gives me more questions.
>Maybe you can brainstorm up some plausible reasons why someone like Sumereko is able to maintain her psyche.
You just gave a good solution, the dream explanation, Sumireko believes everything she sees its a dream, thats why she doesnt take anything seriously and its so willing to get along with everyone. Or something like that, I really need to research Sumireko more.

How true is it that Yukari warps people from outside to the inside just for funsies? I remember reading that but I dont know if that holds weight anymore.
And what is the current situation with the holes of the barrier in the Muenzuka region? We know thats where Rinnosuke gets his shit from, but since there are actual holes in the system there, maybe traspassing them wouldnt trigger the alarms as opposed to directly going through the barrier?

What is Meilings first name??? Is it Hong or is it Meiling?????

>>49332632
It's Meiling.

>>49332528
>highly advanced, magical security system with detection capabilities is an accurate analogy. It's almost inconceivable that a significant event like an unauthorized individual breaching the Barrier outwards, especially one carrying the "contaminant" of intact Gensokyo memories, wouldn't register at least on one Sage's senses.
this explanation have to contend with several barrier breachers in canon, the kappa(heavily implied to get salt), kasen, mamizou, hell even the mysterious contacts of remilia in the outside world. Okina "surveillance system" function in the village and Yukari did not was to quick to respond to sumireko shinenigans at the beginning. so the security of the barrier is not a thigh early warning sistem.

now the question that will never be touched by ZUN. what happen if a Catholic Filipino or a South korean Protestant, or an islamic Indonesian or a Hindu happen to cross the barrier? it will be the gensokyo equivalent of DEFCON 1?

>>49332673
I think a Black Hawk Down scenario would be interesting.

>>49332619
Muenzuka is indeed a special location regarding the Great Hakurei Barrier, but it's not usually depicted as a simple backdoor out of Gensokyo.

Muenzuka is a place where the barriers between Gensokyo, the Outside World, and potentially the Netherworld intersect or are unusually thin. Maintaining one's presence in Muenzuka is difficult due to these overlapping boundaries, suggesting instability rather than a stable passage. Muenzuka acts more like a porous membrane where outside elements can sometimes slip in (like random mundane outsiders) rather than a reliable exit route. Attempting to leave Gensokyo through Muenzuka would likely be hazardous and disorienting due to the unstable, intersecting boundaries, and it probably wouldn't bypass the barrier's fundamental design meant to prevent escape. It's a place where borders mingle unpredictably, not a designated exit door. However, similar to what I presented before, with a combination of knowledge and luck, an outsider can essentially 'game' this location and transform it into an extreme, secret way to exit the Barrier. On the other hand, the destination once he is outside might be extremely random. It's up to chance if a higher power can detect this outward breach, but if found out, the outsider might even get congratulated for his audacity in exploiting this loophole.

I remember that Yukari warping people in just for funsies is a popular opening for self-insert fanfictions. In canon, however, she isn't explicitly stated to gap people in just for entertainment, although she definitely would do it. Discussions mentioned she might target those who wouldn't be missed, and a line in WaHH implicitly suggests that there are some man-eating youkai left within Gensokyo. While darker, I think that few meat-eaters are still allowed to live as predators to gather fear regarding youkai.

>>49332711
Yukari gaps in people who are okay with being raped so youkai can violate them without getting TOO evil, meanwhile Reimu tolerates this because it means villagers don't get forcibly dragged off and married. Canon btw my uncle works at Team Shanghai Alice.

>>49332619
>How true is it that Yukari warps people from outside to the inside just for funsies? I remember reading that but I dont know if that holds weight anymore.
in PCB she makes this joke in picrel.

>>49328080
>It’s about origin and intent, specifically for those tied to the Village.
This is something often left out in these arguments. When Reimu told FT to do more research I think she was sincere. Had he done more research he probably would've gotten the hint that this kind of deep magical research is not something that belongs inside the Village. Much like Marisa, his studies might have left him with little other choice than to leave and pursue magic elsewhere, at which point what happens to him is of no one's concern. Furthermore, having more time to devote to the craft, maybe he wouldn't have taken the shortcuts he did and risk being transformed into a Vengeful Spirit. As well as gaining a deeper understanding of what it actually means to be a Youkai and have a plan on how to live after surrendering his Humanity. Without that research, well, it ended just as could be expected: a newborn Youkai born in broad daylight, scaring a shitload of people, and ran from the cops. His "oh well it worked out fine in the end" excuse doesn't cut it, what if he did lose his mind and become a Vengeful Spirit? A lot of people could've been hurt or killed before anyone could respond to stop it. It's like dropping a silverback gorilla into a mall.
Kosuzu could've gone down the same path and met a similar fate, that's why Reimu watches her. She's a curious girl and surrounded by books with forbidden knowledge, what if she pursued magic further instead of a fleeting fancy with fortune telling?

>>49329056
There's a few things I wonder about. During SSiB Youmu and Yuyuko were able to 'infiltrate' the capital and walk freely, but were pretty conspicuous from Youmu's recollection of it. I think their surveillance is less physical like what we'd expect of an advanced police state, and more metaphysical with regards to monitoring kegare. The Udonge tree seems to me as the perfect device for that, it only blooms with impurity and is functionally similar to a canary in a mine. But it could still be as you describe and buns gawking at pure beings isn't a deviation to record, nor are actual pure beings watched since they are that protected upper class and can be trusted to not disturb the peace.

The other thing was with Hourai individuals. It's a sin because of the temptation to be removed from death and associating with the idea, but the result itself seems like it fits just fine with the Lunarian's theme of stagnancy. If a third sip is too much of an existential risk, would the second sip protect them from the effects of kegare?

>>49333146
You got it right on the FT part.

For Youmu and Yuyuko, there could be other systems: localized purity wards, energy scanners tuned to detect the "scent" of impurity, perhaps even Moon Rabbits psychically sensitive to it. This layer is crucial for detecting external threats (like Earthlings) or internal contamination. Youmu and Yuyuko, being non-Lunarian and non-Rabbit, would likely trigger this layer immediately, marking them as anomalies.

However, the system might have alert thresholds. Their kegare signature might have been enough to make them conspicuous and trigger alerts, but perhaps not high enough (or not identified as an immediate threat) to warrant instant detection and red alarms. Perhaps, they were even chalked up as false positives. After all, Youmu and Yuyuko are denizens of the Netherworld, which itself is a natural Pure Land. That must have counted for something? That, combined with hidden ghosty tricks, should enable them to sneak around a bit.

The act of drinking the Hourai Elixir, in my opinion, is the primary sin. It represents hubris by seeking forbidden power and defying the natural (or Lunarian-defined) order of existence. Lunarian longevity/amortality comes from living in a Pure Land, maintained through societal effort and adherence to strict rules. The Elixir might have been perceived as an external, artificial means to achieve a similar but superior end, bypassing their cultural and metaphysical framework. It's seen as impure in its method and origin. The result (eternal, unchanging existence) superficially aligns with the Lunarian ideal of escaping the cycles of life, death, and decay that create kegare. Still, it's the 'wrong' kind of stagnancy (if that makes sense). Lunarian amortality is tied to their environment and collective Purity; Hourai immortality is an individual, irreversible state imposed upon the natural order by a forbidden artifact. It breaks the rules of their carefully constructed reality.

It's highly plausible that a second sip only will still grant resistance to Impurity. Illness and bodily decay are significant sources of kegare. Removing susceptibility to illness would logically remove a major pathway for kegare to manifest or take root within an individual. A person who cannot get sick might be inherently more resistant to the biological aspects of impurity. Even so, kegare isn't just biological. It includes contact with death, sin, violation of taboo, and the general ambient impurity of impure lands like Earth. So, while a second-sip individual might be more resistant than a baseline human, they likely wouldn't achieve the state of a third-sip immortal. They would still be vulnerable to external sources or severe concentrations of kegare, just less susceptible to internal generation through illness.

True immortality (the third sip) removes the concepts of life, death, illness, and decay entirely from the individual. This should, theoretically, grant near-absolute immunity to kegare, as the fundamental processes that generate and attract it no longer apply to them. This fits with Kaguya and Eirin being able to exist on Earth/Gensokyo without apparent ill effects from kegare.

There are some complexities in the equation, though. Both are extremely powerful figures, with Kaguya being able to replicate Pure Lands' effect on Earth with her abilities, so it might be possible for her to find a way to stem or cancel kegare's effects on her and Eirin. I assume she would be able to figure out how to do this while she was still living amongst humans (The Tale of the Bamboo Cutter).

And Eirin is an ancient Lunarian sage with immense power beyond just the Elixir, and since the Hourai Elixir is named that way, she might have been on Mount Penglai/Hourai before herself to get ingredients. She might have been on Earth even before the making of the Hourai Elixir, in protection spells or advanced Lunarian exosuits shielding against Impurity.

>>49331476
>>49332151
Mizuchi trying to get humans to fight tyrannical maneaters is bad? Being mindless, powerless fearcattle is good? I think you got it backwards, Mizuchi is the only sympathetic character in Touhou as of right now (that isn't a mindless slave like Yoshika or the backstage dancers)

>>49334075
All I'm trying to point out is that just because a group of Youkai killed a human at the epoch of Gensokyo, whom was doing violent things to begin with, doesn't mean modern-era Gensokyo is grim.
But to answer your other questions:
>Mizuchi trying to get humans to fight tyrannical maneaters is bad? Being mindless, powerless fearcattle is good?
No, but she chose to rashly fight on her own and was outplayed, caught out, and killed. By Suika's description, Mizuchi was one of the few humans who was capable of playing the long game, lucky for her, one of the better outcomes occurred since the Village has a very high quality of life and Youkai were reverse-domesticated.

But whether or not they're 'powerless' is an open question for me. They are more ignorant then the average Youkai on a whole, and the average Youkai probably knows much less then someone like Mamizou or Aya, so they can't really advocate for themselves. However, Marisa is proof that a determined human can learn magic from a young age and explore relatively safely and there's like four or five other ways to become strong enough to do danmaku that doesn't involve going Youkai.
Such humans aren't going to get whacked because that's not what the Youkai are worried about, like Mizuchi correctly identified, they don't want humans to organize because if you can get enough humans together you can do just about anything you want.

You guys think Reimu knew Yukari prior to PCB? I always thought it was funny if Yukari never revealed herself to Reimu prior to that incident and was guiding her by leaving cryptic notes around the shrine.

>>49335547
>doesn't mean modern-era Gensokyo is grim
In fanon, maybe. Meanwhile all the official material for the last 15 years has been telling the exact opposite. Villagers being spared is the exception, not the rule.
>one of the better outcomes occurred since the Village has a very high quality of life and Youkai were reverse-domesticated
So she went for a greatest risk with a greatest reward: all youkai dead, and the Village free from their yoke. Can't blame her for it, she just underestimated the human desire for comfort. Now that she failed, youkai are free to torture and kill to this day, while she's being presented as a villain for trying to stop that.

>>49335612
>Villagers being spared is the exception, not the rule.
Right Youkai go around killing villager all the time, it's not like Aya complains about not being able to do that.

>>49335800
Reread my post, villagers ARE the exception. Everyone else is free game.

>>49335846
>Villagers being spared is the exception, not the rule.
Villagers is the topic here, sparing villagers is thus the exception, implying the rule is killing them.
Write your posts better retard.

>>49335892
My point still stands, Mizuchi did nothing wrong. Whether going along with the system like Marisa as >>49335547 suggested was even an option she could consider is up to debate.

>>49335950
I don't care about you're point, format your sentences correctly you fucking esl.

I like the idea of a grimsokyo where even humans with magic or hermit training are still potential prey to youkai. The kind of world even Marisa if she lost her broom or mini-hakkero would be fair game for any youkai that could beat her or strike at an opportunistic moment of weakness.

>>49336817
I don't, the main reason being that Makai seems to fit the description of Grimsokyo far more than Gensokyo actually does and it would be far more interesting to get Makai stuff on that. It pisses me off because Makai was brought back in UFO and nothing has been done with it since. It also doesn't seem like Fossilized Wonders will bring anything Makai either.

WOoHS made me want to see more of the characters that humans fear most that have a darker side. More things like the story of the men who got lost in the woods and never returned all meeting mysterious fates.

Like a story of a naive young craftsman's son who didn't listen in the temple school and brazenly dismisses youkai stories as exaggerated or made up to scare kids because village life is sheltered from the true nature of most youkai. He doesn't take caution around certain youkai. One day while at the village market he stopped off at Hina's stall to buy a nagashi bina for his younger sister for an upcoming festival, but he recklessly approached her and made skin contact while paying for a recycled doll. Now cursed with severe misfortune several days later he has a freak accident just outside the village limits while running an errand for his father to borrow some tools from a rice farmer. No-one else is on the road with him to witness or come to his aid as he has a severe wound, likely to become fatal. But in the distance he hears faint, light footsteps and turns to see a kasha slowly approaching him, eyes laser focused on his wound...

>>49335975
>you're point
Your*

Tfw you want to write a time travel story about 2hu but you can't write social interactions for shit

>>49336954
Threats, insults, random obscure references. Then you'll write dialogue like ZUN.

>>49336954
I suggest practicing maintaining a "lore shelf" if you ever like writing things or worldbuilding. It helps solidify your own ideas instead of having to open up wiki articles.
What are you having trouble with? What's the premise?

>>49336817
I like the idea of a grimsokyo where the Youkai aren't allowed to murder and have to find different ways of tormenting humans as well as when they're forced to clash against each other for territory.
I want to be a solider trained up by Oni to be used in a proxy war against the Tengu damnit!

>>49337212
>I want to be a solider trained up by Oni to be used in a proxy war against the Tengu damnit!
Also realized, this would be a GREAT way to filter out ambitious humans from the village before they start causing problems in a way that would ALSO placate Youkai who want to start shit.
Come on Yukari, let me die in battle!

>>49336831
Second this, Sakuya commented that Makai is scarier than hell.

>>49337077
>What's the premise
A saga about hifuu, a christian apocalypse destroying the western world physically and causing the conditions for hifuu, anon (the hero) being a resurrected corpse of another anon who god chose to reside into during that final conflict and effectively died which fucked with the devil (idk if shinki or if shes an aspect that gets possessed later yet) bad because why would god sacrifice himself for an unworthy man? The devil unsatisfied spent a lot of time and effort helping create the hifuu setting in the east and setting the stage for new anon to grow into a stronger opponent (worthy in their eyes) to defeat god proper by proxy. Shinki from here learns of gensokyo (maybe with okinas help?) and sets the stage for apocalypse 2 with the monsters on the torifune satellite, unknowingly setting up a proto lunarian kingdom that will later go back in time making the japanese creation mythos and becoming who they are now.
Anon becomes friends with the hifuu pair, mostly merry (by design by shinki and okina) shortly before apoc2 kicks into full swing, monsters are going about causing a ruckus and anon manages to kill a couple awakening into a fightfag, merry turns proto yukari with anon trying to keep an absurd promise of some kind to renko (fails) fights proto yukari and loses. Attempts to chase yukari through a gap (yukari goes much further into the past) while right before a new pathway (likely yukari's backdoor) that anon rushes through trying to follow yukari sends anon to muenzuka leading to the beginning of gensokyo misadventures as remilia's personal scarlet knight (she had no interest in refusing shinki's demand) with the hakurei shrine maiden suddenly falling into a coma (nobody can crack shinki's magic since she's head and shoulders above everyone else faith wise) and our scarlet knight being forced to act as local incident resolver creates a lot of chaos in gensokyo with the scarlet mansion becoming the most prominent force and everybody blaming remilia for reimu's sleep.

By the end of everything reimu would wake up after a semi successful prevention of apocalypse 2 in real world, scarlet knight forcefully taking shinki into himself, and with the agreement of gensokyo's residents causes a faux long term incident to train reimu back up to speed from the few months to a year(s) coma and committing epic suicide by shrine maiden finally defeating the devil completely leaving a safe gensokyo and an unwritten future for the real world.
Alas, I can't write for shit and I'm a wagie with no time to write lmao

>>49338515
NTA, but I suggest starting out with something small and unrelated so you can get a grip on how to write in general. I have been stuck on the first chapter of my dream fic for over a year, and I have no clue on how to do anything, all because it's literally the first piece of fiction I've wrote in my entire life. Don't be like me.

>>49336817
wtf you can generate that fucked up dying Marisa but when I try to generate slightly battle damaged Reimu GPT nags me???!

>>49335846
and why should I care about anyone else besides the two old men who frequent Geidontei? GAIJIN OUTSIDERS GTFO

Anyone feeling like writing yuri here?

>>49337212
>I like the idea of a grimsokyo where the Youkai aren't allowed to murder and have to find different ways of tormenting humans as well as when they're forced to clash against each other for territory.
That's kind of what I do, except they use human proxies rather than directly getting involved with humans. Also lethal clashes are rare and it's closer to gang violence.

>>49339894
No. Touhou Yuri is boring and all of the ships are obviously made up. I genuinely prefer OC x canon character every time.

>>49339883
Old men care about outsiders.

What seems to be the hinted current state of Makai? It seemed to be pretty orderly and civilized in MS but hints starting from PCB seems to describe it as a horrifying place. UFO showcased it as a hellscape too.

>>49339883
You're disappointing the kind ojisans...

>>49338686
Just be careful with the prompts and don't be too explicit with gore or violence. I did a couple of grimsokyo inspired series of gens it allowed despite featuring death and mild gore.

Yuyuko backstory triptych:
https://files.catbox.moe/mfb1h7.png
https://files.catbox.moe/9lidmg.png
https://files.catbox.moe/2qhjfc.png

Previous Hakurei Shrine maiden triptych:
https://files.catbox.moe/ecozgv.png
https://files.catbox.moe/brbf9v.png
https://files.catbox.moe/b2rsx9.png

What do the old men at Geidontei ACTUALLY think about Miyoi? Considering her love fortune slip

>>49335950
The fact that you're still at this despite going all "oh I don't care about 4chan that much, I hate the modern touhou fandom" speaks volumes

>>49338515
>another SI fic
holy shit anon props for typing that out without dying of cringe but seriously be more original

>>49338515
I think it's telling that you lore dumped this whole bit about the outside world 'hifuu apocalypse' instead of just saying something like:
>A strange knight arrives in Gensokyo and is picked up by the SDM, at the same time Reimu is afflicted by a curse and is incapacitated. Now this new 'Scarlet Knight' is coerced into resolving incidents in the Shrine Maiden's stead to win glory for his new master, while a more sinister force follows in his footsteps.
Granted, this is more toward my tastes, but I would start this story where the knight enters Gensokyo, and dull out details about the apocalypse piecemeal, if at all.
Like this anon said: >>49338624 You should scope things down before trying to write your epic, complex magnum opus.
E.g. Make one 'book' where:
- The knight arrives and Gensokyo, Reimu enters a coma
- While resolving incidents and winning glory for the SDM, the Knight discovers something followed him into Gensokyo: A beast made by Shiki to hunt him
- The Knight, presumably with some help, owes up to some personal failing and slays the beast, causing Reimu to revive. Why Shiki sent the beast is left a mystery.
You got a beginning, middle, end, and a future hook if you WANT to do all the apocalypse stuff in another book.
>>49336954
>but you can't write social interactions for shit
What helps me is to consider a character's Sex, Health, Emotional State, Disposition toward the other party, and body language. Usually nailing two or three of these things will make conversations interesting and fun to write. The actual dialog is much better if the reader can envision how the character says it.
>>49344730
Everyone does Self Inserts at the start, in fact, I'd argue writer projection is the best way to make a protagonist feel 'real'.
That said, I think it's a problem when a person's attachment to their Self Insert is too strong, because that causes them to be passengers in their own story and prevents them from making REAL mistakes.
For Remilia, the common fantasy is becoming a butler at the SDM, but why would she pick up a human when Sakuya already does a perfect job? Maybe she needs an innocuous spy, or a blood bag of a particular type, perhaps she just wants some morbid entertainment. How the MC reacts to these things will say much about him and it's fun to imagine how different kinds of people might approach the situation, then deducing how Remilia would react to their actions. It's should be like a billiards game where characters and scenarios are bouncing off each other. But if you're too attached to the MC it can feel less like a chain reaction and more like they're being strung along through all the things you'd dream about doing if you were a butler at the SDM. Fantasy is fine, it's just that writers should let the story take hold and guide things at some point rather then making something completely gratifying.
Now, for mistakes, characters should be bastards at times. They should lie when they feel insecure, shirk from responsibility, be hateful to people who don't deserve it, and do other horrible things that make readers say "Oh, you dumb motherfucker...", all in moderation of course, but it really is the Nutmeg of writing which no good story goes without. The problem is that, as a writer, you have perfect knowledge and are too attached to your Self Insert, so they don't act out of anger(unless it's righteous) and are always well-mannered and kind! Because that's what you'd do if you were your idealized self. Any mistakes the character does make will feel superficial and only in service of the plot, not a true product of THEM, but an allowance to allow the story to happen.

Shit. Just wrote a bunch about writing instead of writing. I should really get back to writing...

>>49345483
>trench crusade Paladin and imagery
>in the SDM
"Put on the whole armor of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wilds of the devil, for we don't wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against rulers of darkness in this age, against Spiritual host of wickedness in the heavenly places, where you find the serpents... Crush its head, and where you find the Demon... Strike its heart. Ascend now thee to hell, to carry the light of Christ into the vile heart of Darkness"

A being of this Caliber is wasted on a brat irreligious vampire like the Scarlet sisters.

>>49345483
>why would she pick up a human when Sakuya already does a perfect job?
Same reason why she picks fairies, no reason.
All the fairies in that mansion play pretend to be working while the only one working is Sakuya.
There could be a lot of reasons that you could make up as to why would Remilia pick a human, hell, you could delve into the jokesokyo route and say that Sakuya just wants someone that actually does something to make her job easier and would be able to convince her.

>>49341422
She reminds them of their daughter. Their lives have been inherently hollow and meanigless ever since the kids left their home. As if all that remains is waiting for death.

>>49342392
Eh? That's not me, anon.

>>49335950
I think both of you are writing fanfiction, Mizhuci was just as selfish as the bitch ass youkai and died like the bitch she is.

>>49326206
Sakuya takes care of that, but I bet that Remilia and her gang have some sort of way to get in and out of Gensokyo as they please.

>>49336817
>I like the idea of a grimsokyo where even humans with magic or hermit training are still potential prey to youkai
It was said in canon that Hermits are the equivalent of Big Macs/Whoopers for youkai, their flesh tasting much, much better than normal humans. Seiga would be an exquisite, finger licking, menu for Rumia, to put an example.

As for magicians, their bodies are still human, so potentially they are still on the menu. Its funny how Patchouli likes to larp as a fearsome youkai, when she would get eaten by her "brethren", like Rumia, if they had the chance, with maybe tasting a little bit sour due how unhealthy she is

Also, magician's main habitat in Gensokyo, the Forest of Magic, is extremely lethal to both human and youkai alike, only fairies also living there because of their connection with magic (and reviving after every death does greatly help) so it provides natural protection for not becoming youkai food for locals like Alice and Marisa.

>>49345483
>why would Remi keep a human around
Remi is one of the easy ones to justify because she is whimsical and does things just to be entertained. If a human shows enough backbone it wouldn’t be too much of a stretch for her to decide that that human is allowed to live at her discretion and pay off their ‘debt’ by working at the sdm, Or alternatively take on someone who actively tries to get hired, just for the sake of amusing herself with their struggles. It’s also not that out of character at least in fanon for her to get attached unintentionally pretty quickly.

>>49347226
I think PMiSS also mentions monks being more desirable than normal humans too, at least for the purposes of beast youkai.
Going on a tangent, but I think there's a solid case to be made that the bottom line for youkai food is human spiritual energy. Human flesh is preferable since it contains a lot of it. Animals turn into youkai should they eat enough, so youkai devouring countless humans would naturally be stronger like Ibaraki Douji. In a way it's similar to the chinese belief that suffering in an animal makes the meat taste better. The stronger one is spiritually the more filling their flesh is. Humans are one thing, but monks going up to hermits are delicacies. Of course, the stronger the human, the harder they are to kill. Meaning it would be worth the risks provided you could adequately defend yourself, and in modern Gensokyo the ones who'd pose a threat to you know better than to pick fights of life and death, or are kishin who's job is to claim your soul.
That said, modern Gensokyo doesn't allow for that kind of diet to be the norm. So we look at Kogasa as a case study and the general metaphysics behind youkai. Kogasa sustains herself through scaring people and youkai exist based on the nebulous fear of humans, this means fear is a catalyst for spirit to be consumable. Fear of youkai "offgasses" spiritual energy for youkai to consume and passively subsist on, and only with widespread fear can they grow stronger from the beliefs directed at them. What this boils down to is that youkai can survive off of fear and occasional spooks, but if given the chance free of consequences (or any self imposed morality) they would take the opportunity to eat you because it has the fastest gains. It's like living off of potatoes for most of your life and stealing a ham roast every so often.

>>49346482
I heard 'knight' and 'apocolyspe' in the same sentence and that's what my mind leapt to.
The idea of being Remilia's anointed knight is kind of cute.
>>49346521
>>49347266
The question was rhetorical, but the answers are interesting nonetheless.
I have discarded draft where the reason is that Remilia enjoys collecting people and filling out the mansion with them. The MC had to find a way to stand out in order to not be fired, which he does by getting desperate and making a meal utilizing the same methods that advertisers employ to make food look tasty, such as using motor oil instead of syrup on pancakes, to create a super appetizing looking meal, that's actually lethal. Remilia just about chokes on it and is so stoked that she, a powerful vampire, was almost poisoned, that she promotes him to head chef and deems him "Vizier of Poisons". The rest of the story would revolve around him struggling to keep up the lie that he knows what he's doing while an ongoing, seemingly unrelated, water contamination incident makes him look guilty of something.

Has ZUN ever explained how the outside world lost their belief in youkai?

>>49347434
I think Forbidden Sorcery explained it as basically science explaining Youkai effects away as natural phenomenon, like lighting a dark corner.
Then again, the Outside World in Gensokyo isn't necessarily the same as ours and there could easily be a more nuanced explanation.

>>49347434
Loss of faith in religion and emphasis on material and fact. Rather than believing in the stories and myth, the natural response is to doubt them until proven true. As >>49347446 said, it's science explaining away Youkai. Yamabiko is notable because their echo was reasoned to be natural echoes instead of a yamabiko returning your shout. People stop shouting into the mountains and yamabiko lose their purpose and meaning which is death for a youkai. There's still pockets of superstition, and urban legends are just the modern youkai, albeit far weaker and fragile.

>>49346903
Fox paws typed this post

Is Tewi planning a keikaku to overthrow the Lunarians in order to free Daikoku?

>>49348552
>Is Tewi planning a keikaku to overthrow the Lunarians
Yes, probably, Reimu basically concludes as much.
>in order to free Daikoku?
This part is much more open to interpretation, it's unclear if she knows he's imprisoned or not. In SSiB it's unclear if she's unfamiliar with the Lunarians or is putting up a strong face in front of the Inaba when Reisen2 comes down and gives her the letter.
Either would be in character for Tewi since she seems to be someone with a calculated outward appearance.

>>49349077
If it were real and it happened, would Reisen side with Tewi or be against her? It would pretty much mean turning against Eirin but Reisen does seem to be against the Lunarian hold over the moon rabbits, she just helped them in LoLK because it was Eirin's orders.

>>49349573
If it came down to it, I think Reisen would choose Eirin in a heartbeat, she seems to mainly regard Tewi as some annoying granny that's mysterious and gives her a more work.
But Eirin seems to consider herself done with the moon, the only reason she intervened in LoLK is that the Lunarains where attacking earth and she thought they would trying to also root out her and Kaguya. She's willing to answer questions the sisters of Sagume ask of her, but they're personal friends(?)
So I don't think Tewi and Eirin would end up on opposite ends of a serious conflict.

>>49349952
True. It's likely that Eirin and Kaguya would remain neutral, only willing to help the Watatsuki Sisters and Sagume. I guess Reisen would just continue being a guard for them in that scenario.

I wonder, if an outsider showed up in gensokyo who was genuinely and deathly afraid of monsters, would it cause nearby youkai to grow drunk on the fear and start breaking gensokyo rules over time causing gradually more lethal incidents and making gensokyo more grim until it implodes?

>>49350141
they'd just milk the guy (not literally!) going full KKHTA would be ridiculous

MS show them but I always wondered how demons work in the current Windows Touhou setting. A lot of spellcards mention demons or demonic powers, Alice's spellcards in SFW/Hisoutensoku do mention them but youkai are spirits which can be both benign or malevolent depending on their source (folklore or human fears). Demons meanwhile are inherently evil in concept.

>>49350188
(yes, literally!)

>>49350141
I don't think being deathly afraid would be that different from the average villager and, based on some of the supplemental material, a happy human is more delicious(probably in both terms of fear and body).
However, if they somehow caused a fear surplus, I think the Youkai would just grow fat and lazy since they're too satisfied. It would be a whole different problem.

If often happens in fanworks and Youkai monster girl manga were the MC has something about him that causes monsters to go nuts such as "you smell like the country", "I had an unrequited love with your distant relative and now I want to fulfill it/get revenge on his bloodline.", and of course "The scared/shocked look on your face is delicious".
It doesn't do much for me usually, feels like it's just generic for the sake of wide-market appeal and doesn't provide much characterization. One idea I had to solve this is to introduce a human who's incredibly easy to possess and doesn't remember what he's done while inhabited. I would call the series "Highly Vulnerable to Possession" and make it a mystery story where he often is made out to be the culprit for crimes.
Sort of like Yuyuko's ability, the trait should seem like a curse, but the truth is that it's actually a sort of ability. For the Possessed, I would reveal that the reason for his weakness is because he has incredibly talent as a medium, borne out of his love for hosting meals, so he's a good host because he's a good host.
It'll feel more like Touhou when the character has a troublesome, esoteric ability the reader can reason about is what I think I'm trying to say.

And with the translation of the latest chapter, grimsokyotards lost bigly.
Don't worry, grimbros. Maybe one day you'll get some Makai content as a consolation prize.

>>49351380
>grimsokyotards lost bigly
How? I need to see this.

>>49320790 (OP)
Gensokyo + Wrestling = Perfection.

>>49351387
Reimu straight up says that while it's true that the humans in Gensokyo exist so that youkai can, humanity reigns supreme over youkai and as long as they stay human they can get away with everything. That as long as you're human, you're completely unmatched (Fortune Teller should've done more research). Reimu then proceeds to deal with Mizuchi her own way, without following Yukari's suggestions of disposing her like the previous Hakurei shrine maiden, in the end helping her pass on peacefully.
Youkai only exist thanks to the MERCY of the humanity residing within Gensokyo.

>>49351420
So, Reimu is delusional and lacks empathy for the villagers and outsiders? How does this help with the grimfaggot menace?

Do you think Kyouko and Mystia have a band rivalry with the Primsriver Ensemble?

>>49351426
The villagers are on top of the youkai, dumbass. That's what she means. Outsiders get fucked but the human villagers are on top, over all youkai. Any youkai trying to fuck (figuratively) with the human villagers gets exterminated.

>>49351437
So? They're still cattle. They have no say in this. Cows don't rule over humans.

>>49351437
>Outsiders get fucked
that's the important thing here, how much more centuries gensokyo will parasite the Shinano Prefecture?, how much until gensokyo fucks with an outsider who should not have fucked with?

>>49351437
so it was this all along?

>>49351479
>that's the important thing here, how much more centuries gensokyo will parasite the Shinano Prefecture?, how much until gensokyo fucks with an outsider who should not have fucked with?
I dunno, but society has always had endless amounts of scuicidals and people who won't be missed.
Even Sumirenko was too high profile for Gensokyo, and yet the Youkai stay fed.
So I think it will continue to exist for a long time.

>>49351434
Honestly, I hope so. This is the kind of small things that I wish ZUN would elaborate on.
Thats an easy slice of life manga right there, a musical manga.

>>49351723
Choujuu Gigaku vs Prismriver
Youmu Gardening manga featuring Yuuka
Aya vs Hatate newspaper rivalry

Easy multimillion dollar ideas

>>49351771
And best of all, they get to be small self contained stories that dont disrupt any deep lore so ZUN cant screw himself over.

>>49351420
>Zun-sama retconning grimsokyo... in a grimsokyo manga
Very based, or the biggest hack in history, you name it

>>49351828
Both.

>>49320790 (OP)
You know, seeing us arguing about youkai total death, changing them for the best, or otherwise, I wonder if lunarians also have their 4chan equivalent where they also engage in rather heated discussions about if earthlings should be genocided because they are evil, or not because they can improve

>>49351926
>earthlings should be genocided because they are evil
Toyohime.
>not because they can improve
Yorihime.

>>49351830
He has been telling us from a decade now that Gensokyo is a backwater realm with none of the fun, all of the trouble dark type of fantasy... and then, he suddenly makes a 360 degrees in a manga which whole premise is that Gensokyo is a bad scary place...

In the end, fanonfags were right: just imagine Gensokyo whatever you feel like, the setting is just too inconsistent to have a canon at this point

>>49352001
>In the end, fanonfags were right: just imagine Gensokyo whatever you feel like, the setting is just too inconsistent to have a canon at this point
ZUN-sama your plan worked

>>49351970
Most gentle elder sibling vs least rude younger sibling

>>49352001
>none of the fun
you literally had the most fun incident for the ordinary person just a few years ago

>>49351437
>The villagers are on top of the youkai, dumbass.
Which is why the Tengu and kappa live in modern urban cities with amazing amenities and the human villagers aren't even allowed to have a leader.

Reimu is a spoiled bitch with no understand of how normal people think or act. What else is new?

>>49358278
>Bitcoin invading Gensokyo is fun?

>>49360198
Take it to the CDS thread, you gigafaggot.

>>49360203
too green

>>49360319
I'm pretty sure he's camping both threads due to being incredibly butthurt LOL

>>49360337
I can see him trying to shit stir in the latest Th20 thread but he's being completely ignored by all the tourists
beautiful.

do the human villagers have guns? they need something to defend themselves right, especially before spell card rule

>>49364906
I've been away all day.

>>49350212(me)
Well, apparently Fossilized Wonders directly introduces a demon, and she's Nue's ancestor


>Houju Chimi
>Species: Demon.
>Ability: control the energy of mountains and rivers.
>A youkai of unknown identity. It is generally thought to be a monster with long ears. An ancient spirit that existed before the modern concept of youkai was born, she has always lived in the sanctuary. If you encounter strange phenomena in the mountains or forests, there is a chance that she is nearby. It is not that she is trying to play pranks, but rather that strange phenomena occur when she is hiding. In that sense, she is more like a spirit or a god than a youkai. She can only live in places with a lot of nature, such as mountains, forests, and rivers, and is destined to disappear as development progresses. It is not a coincidence that she appeared this time within the anomalous barrier of the sanctuary. This is because she only appears in places with few people and other youkai.

>>49370403
>Houju
I think that's just a title of descriptor as it literally means 'sealed beast'

>>49366141
there might be a few flintlocks around as antique pieces of collection, but its not like a M16 would do much against yōkai

>>49349981
Yeah although talking about that really makes me wish for fanworks, that explore a less typical Tewi.
Not just the trickstaer angle of her, but the matriarch we see her act like in SSiB and LoLK, who's looking out the Inaba clan first and foremost.

>>49370403
IIRC, her species is listed not as mamono (demon), but as mononoke, which is how youkai were called before Heian period.
So, she's the closest thing to a "generic" youkai we've had since Meiling.

>>49371341
She does share the same kanji as Nue. Could also be a title for both of them as you say.

>>49371810
Not if it was blessed by a priest or the user enchants it with magic.

>>49373976
NTA, but I always figured whether a physical object could harm a youkai or not was determined by the strength of its souls, of course bolstered by the faith and emotions attached to said item.
But with a ballistic weapon, you'd have to individually bless each bullet and the rifle so it just seems inefficient. Danamku is largely made from magic, but in the cases its not such as Marisa's missiles I figured that was due to them having a magical energy source.
Although Reimu does her disposable talismans and needles, but her needles are Youkai made and she is Reimu Hakurei. Her standards are not exactly the standards of normal people, so for someone weaker then her just fining a ball of magic or whatever is probably more time efficient.

>>49373976
>Not if it was blessed by a priest
You would need the likes of a living saint for that. Any priest won't do
>or the user enchants it with magic.
They can still regenerate and heal pretty fast, and are durable enough to endure the magical bullets. You're only pissing them off at worst.

Use guns against your fellow humans, who are more likely to kill you than youkai by stadistics, and let your local shrine maiden, or mage, take care of them

>>49374592
>Any priest won't do
Literally any priest will do, because every one have a covenant with god and the right to bind on earth and heaven.
>They can still regenerate and heal pretty fast, and are durable enough to endure the magical bullets. You're only pissing them off at worst.
The Regeneration we have seen in the series is a slow prosses (even Satori got bandaged) surely more fast than a normal human. but not fast enough to be blown again. and if for a reason they use more magic to regenerate faster that mean they are burning energy faster and get more tired. Also they feel pain so that's another window of attrition

>>49374686
>Literally any priest will do, because every one have a covenant with god and the right to bind on earth and heaven.
christianity isn't even canon to touhou

>>49374764
>Kasen literally mention the "saint attached to the flesh that he committed the act of resurrection"
>Rumia lifting her arms in imitation at that Crucified person.
>Seiga blaspheming around the concept of being born in a stable concerning miko.
Anon...

>>49374686
>because every one have a covenant with god and the right to bind on earth and heaven.
To perform miracles, like blessing something, you need to be directly influenced by a god. This is how it works in real life (well, if you believe in that), and most certainly in 2hu
>The Regeneration we have seen in the series is a slow prosses (even Satori got bandaged) surely more fast than a normal human
Satori is extremely sick and weak even for youkai standards, and despite the lethal wound she received (by a giant flaming sword wielded by a vampire, mind you) she managed to be just fine shortly after, a minor setback at worst. Now imagine an average youkai.
Oh, and don't forget Satori is also bringing in danmaku and her mind raping abilities.
>and if for a reason they use more magic to regenerate faster that mean they are burning energy faster and get more tired
That would be magicians, youkai can do that naturally
>Also they feel pain so that's another window of attrition
Anon, you aren't surviving a youkai encounter even with blessed bullets. It would be like shooting at and leaving holes to a brickwall, just that it will rush you down and crack your head open
>>49374794
I think that the other anon meant that christianity isn't canon in the sense that Touhou cosmology does contradict it quite a lot, not that it doesn't exist in the setting
>>Seiga blaspheming around the concept of being born in a stable concerning miko.
Seiga is so raw, you just have to find her endearing

>>49374143
What if i truly, truly believe with all my heart that my 12 gauge slug could vaporize Tenshi with one shot, will it be effective?

>>49374965
It means you have been blessed by Gork and Mork.

>>49374959
>To perform miracles, like blessing something, you need to be directly influenced by a god.
which by the covenant they are. all the time, by the Properties of the God they invoke.
>Satori is extremely sick and weak even for youkai standards, and despite the lethal wound she received (by a giant flaming sword wielded by a vampire, mind you) she managed to be just fine shortly after, a minor setback at worst. Now imagine an average youkai.
Oh, and don't forget Satori is also bringing in danmaku and her mind raping abilities.
Not Lethal yes, which put into question the effectiveness of magical attacks. instead Reimu with her Gohei one shot FT (divine properties) and Yorihime one shot remilia (even if they agreed beforehand to a non lethal duel and Amaterasu seems to know this)
>That would be magicians, youkai can do that naturally
Not really, in SSiB Remilia had to put a minimal concentration to regenerate her burn hand. which implies a willful action not an unconscious one, also Suika gourd proves that even in Magical Land, Nothing comes from nothing as it uses humidity of other gourds in gensokyo to produce the "unlimited" sake.
>Anon, you aren't surviving a youkai encounter even with blessed bullets.
the lore and logic of the setting says the contrary.
>I think that the other anon meant that christianity isn't canon in the sense that Touhou cosmology does contradict it quite a lot, not that it doesn't exist in the setting.
If Gensokyo is necessary and have to exist, then the chain of causality that create the world that is anathema to youkai existence had to come from Christianity, you would not have the scientific method if you don't have the will to truth, believe in an ordered universe which is set with laws that can be knowledgeable. even the secularism of the outside world is an expression of the linear (non cyclical) march of progress and history that birth from the worldview of the old monasteries and universities (founded by the Catholics)
>Seiga blaspheming around the concept of being born in a stable concerning miko.
funny, but seiga is the designated asshole of gensokyo and nobody wants to associate with her

TLDR: this is the Worldbuilding thread, Know-Your-Theology. I guaranty you that the Shinto/Buddhist/Daoist in the setting take their ideas seriously in the same way is in the interest of the youkai in demoralizing potential individuals so they don't get Lunarian/Yuuma level threats. (in universe)

Genuine lore question. Do the tengu have some sort of disguise magic or some shit? I ask explicitly because of Aya. Or more specifically Ayas ears. Modern Aya (like other Tengu) has elf-like ears right? Its been a while since I've read FS so do forgive me if I'm getting details wrong but. Aya sells the Bunbunmaru in the human village with a news cap that does not cover her ears. And yet nobody seems to even notice she's a youkai in spite of it being incredibly obvious due to her elf-ears.

So that makes me wonder if the tengu have some form of disguising magic because there's no way in hell normal people in Gensokyo have natural elf ears.

tldr of autism;
Aya having elf ears and nobody noticing in the human village noticing makes no sense. So do the tengu have some form of disguise magic?

>>49375141
I think they just know the Tengu print and sell the newspapers and don't really care, Suika walks through the village in a paper thing disguise so as long as they follow the minimum courtesy its probably fine.

>>49375113
>which by the covenant they are.
When a priest can levitate, heal wounds with his touch, and other things, then we're talking about them blessing a magazine
>Not Lethal yes, which put into question the effectiveness of magical attacks.
You put into question the killing effectiveness of a fire sword through a heart (if Satori has one)?
>instead Reimu with her Gohei one shot FT (divine properties)
Reimu is the Hakurei God's direct chosen, and its implied the Gohei doesn't have divine properties by itself, its just when Reimu uses it that it suddenly gains youkai killing machine abilities. The rod here is more of a channeling catalyst for Reimu to perform her divine duties, also the FT wasn't being hostile towards her
>and Yorihime one shot remilia (even if they agreed beforehand to a non lethal duel and Amaterasu seems to know this)
Yorihime used her main weakness against her, so of course she one shot her
>Not really, in SSiB Remilia had to put a minimal concentration to regenerate her burn hand
Vampires aren't exactly youkai, and I didn't say that they didn't need to concentrate to heal, just that they are naturally able to heal those kinds of wounds, like a lizard regrowing their tail. Someone using magic would be more in the line of using medicine to heal themself up
>the lore and logic of the setting says the contrary
They say that if a flying, super fast, directly appointed by their god guardian of humanity can struggle against them, Dick Cumson and his blessed M4 carabine might be in a tiny bit of trouble
>If Gensokyo is necessary and have to exist, then the chain of causality that create the world that is anathema to youkai existence had to come from Christianity
Let's assume this is true: The God of Abraham would still be another god, a very succesful one, yes, but another one in a world with many. The whole creator thing would essentialy be propaganda made to attract as many worshippers as possible, which is quite offensive for abrahamanics. Gods operate like mafia bosses in 2hu, and big hebrew man in the sky would be no different
>funny, but seiga is the designated asshole of gensokyo and nobody wants to associate with her
that would be Seija, Seiga can prove to be beneficial... sometimes

>>49376778
>When a priest can levitate, heal wounds with his touch, and other things, then we're talking about them blessing a magazine
In touhou they may as well can specially those trained from Rome and Mount Athos for the eastern Orthodox.
>You put into question the killing effectiveness of a fire sword through a heart (if Satori has one)?
the fact that a magical attack did'n work put into question, yes. again. Holy attacks seems to be more effective
>Reimu is the Hakurei God's direct chosen, and its implied the Gohei doesn't have divine properties by itself, its just when Reimu uses it that it suddenly gains youkai killing machine abilities. The rod here is more of a channeling catalyst for Reimu to perform her divine duties, also the FT wasn't being hostile towards her
again. the same is for everyone who makes a covenant. and every priest does. if the case is that the gohei which doesn't have divine properties by itself (which i dont believe it because it goes again stablished setting of belief = potency/power) that's a problem for her, because to bless something is to confer special properties, to set it apart. also FT doesnt need to be hostile. the characteristics implied in the gohei is enought.
>Yorihime used her main weakness against her, so of course she one shot her
Yes, and that implies a holyness (east and west) which "short-circuit" the proprieties of youkai physiology
>Vampires aren't exactly youkai, and I didn't say that they didn't need to concentrate to heal, just that they are naturally able to heal those kinds of wounds, like a lizard regrowing their tail. Someone using magic would be more in the line of using medicine to heal themself up
It still does not disprove nihil ex nihilo. if she have to burn mana/magic/vitae/whatever to accelerate regeneration, that "enegy" is expended elsewhere. she can be tired. besides she doesnt escape the propierties of a youkai very much. imagine enter gensokyo and suddently get a weakeness to roasted basedbeans just because Takeshi "Welcome to the rice fields" Generiko can't bother to make a language distinction between Oni and Vampire.
>They say that if a flying, super fast, directly appointed by their god guardian of humanity can struggle against them, Dick Cumson and his blessed M4 carabine might be in a tiny bit of trouble
"the first will be last and the last will be first" yes, Dick Cumson will not have much of a problem in the weapon department outside his wits and tactics. its literally a doctrinal property of the faith.
>Let's assume this is true: The God of Abraham would still be another god, a very succesful one, yes, but another one in a world with many. The whole creator thing would essentialy be propaganda made to attract as many worshippers as possible, which is quite offensive for abrahamanics. Gods operate like mafia bosses in 2hu, and big hebrew man in the sky would be no different
I hardly call a God, with just one dude barely believing in him, another one of the pile when he totally flex against the whole Egyptian Pantheon with the full Faith backing of the state. it should have been extinct after the Crucifixion and the Diaspora. but it goes to conquer and influence the whole world. "Propaganda" cease to be when you can back it up.
>funny, but seiga is the designated asshole of gensokyo and nobody wants to associate with her
Seija is just a Delinquent begging for delicious Correction. Seiga is a black widow in all meaning.

Again, this is the Worldbuilding thread. a character have all the resources, theology and History to draw from. the main problem of rifle anon is not weapons or combat, instead is getting Hitman'ed by Okina before it becomes a Lunarian/Yuuma/Existencial Threat.

>>49377585
>the main problem of rifle anon is not weapons or combat, instead is getting Hitman'ed by Okina before it becomes a Lunarian/Yuuma/Existencial Threat.
nta but I think the threat of a magic rifle is being oversold, danmaku already exists and youkai have all sorts of odd abilities that would level the playing field.
Even weak Youkai like Mystia and Wriggle have abilities that can cripple a human with little to no effort while leaving them at minimal threat of being hurt. Like let's just say their a outsuder who lands on the Road of Reconsideration or anywhere with a high density of man-eating youkai who would attack on sight. Realistically I think they're getting eaten due to not being able to deal with all the Youkai, Okina, Yuakri, or Reimu need not get involved.
And in the situation they land in an area where there's a smaller density of hostile Youkai like around the Hakurei Shrine or Yukari's home where the barrier is weak. Yukari or Reimu could just gap them back to the outside world. I think the only situation where Reimu, Okina, or Yukari would step in is if they land in an area like the misty lake and run into Rumia, who's the only hostile Youkai we know of in the area. They break the spell card rules and kill her, but I don't think anyone would really care and the outsider would still be returned to the outside world, if they try to tell people what happened they get called a crazy person.
I the outsider is really hostile, goes out of their way to kill youkai like wriggle who would try to befriend him then they would probably get killed. But in that case it's because the outsider is a murderer and killed without reason.

I have some ideas for a board game about Touhou...

>>49377902
Let's hear it.

>>49378009
Alright, but I need to sober up!

>>49377704
The Main point is that rifle anon need blessed bullets and inbued atributes granted by faith and belief.
>youkai have all sorts of odd abilities that would level the playing field.
this also goes for Inbued Individuals and equipment.
Outside of this. I fully agree with you. Rifle anon is not getting spirited away with an Antimateriel rifle 50BMG explosive ammunition. he will not explode in half a feral Youkai in order to buy time (one or two days) with normal medium caliber. and i am charitable and assume he will not go full retard and begin antagonizing the civilized youkai that have human form and use language.
>>49377902
Don't be shy anon, for that we come to the Lore/worldbuilding thread.

>>49377585
>In touhou they may as well can specially those trained from Rome and Mount Athos for the eastern Orthodox.
We dont know about barely anything about the Outside World, but if its the same as ours, it would add the question why faith is dying all over there when the pope can send holy imbued men to any problem they have
>Holy attacks seems to be more effective
Accomplished magicians can drop youkai just fine according to Akyuu
>the same is for everyone who makes a covenant.
Not everyone who joins a god gets to become a super soldier like Reimu or Sanae, thats what I'm saying
>(which i dont believe it because it goes again stablished setting of belief = potency/power)
It was stated in DDC that the Gohei, after being used by Reimu, keeps its holy properties for a time, but eventually becomes a simply stick with papers. Faith is power, yes, but there are people who can use it better.
>because to bless something is to confer special properties, to set it apart
Reimu can bless things just fine with her gohei. Hell, she might as well use a simple plain stick for it and it might even do the job still
>Yes, and that implies a holyness (east and west) which "short-circuit" the proprieties of youkai physiology
Yorihime brought the very same goddess of the sun into a fight with a vampire. Magical bullets aren't going to replicate those levels of one shot
>It still does not disprove nihil ex nihilo. if she have to burn mana/magic/vitae/whatever to accelerate regeneration, that "enegy" is expended elsewhere. she can be tired
I don't know, do I get tired after I cut my nails and they grow back?
>imagine enter gensokyo and suddently get a weakeness to roasted basedbeans just because Takeshi "Welcome to the rice fields" Generiko can't bother to make a language distinction between Oni and Vampire.
I think the setting's reason for this is that Onis and Vampires are related. What an interesting family tree that one is
>Dick Cumson will not have much of a problem in the weapon department outside his wits and tactics
Against a superhuman being that moves faster than his bullets?
>I hardly call a God, with just one dude barely believing in him, another one of the pile when he totally flex against the whole Egyptian Pantheon with the full Faith backing of the state
In real life, Ramses the Second was one of the most succesful pharaohs in Egypt's history, however... Someone fabricated a few events here and there
>but it goes to conquer and influence the whole world.
Europe, America, Africa, not the whole world. The hindues, buddhists and shintoits are still going strong, and lets not even enter in the rather brutal inside fighting they have. Heresy must negatively affect gods in some way if they are so into punishing it
>Seija is just a Delinquent begging for delicious Correction. Seiga is a black widow in all meaning.
A black widow is still a pest controller

>>49378949
>We dont know about barely anything about the Outside World.
That's why you are in a Lore/WorldBuilding thread. you can infer and deduce logical conclusions and expanding the setting.
>it would add the question why faith is dying all over there when the pope can send holy imbued men to any problem they have
You don't send exorcist with a detachment of the swiss Guard to deal with mortal political affairs, also concerning belief, the outside world is not "faithless" for atheistic secular materialism is also a religion with tenets and axioms which can be enforced.
>Accomplished magicians can drop youkai just fine according to Akyuu
yet we see holy maidens have a total advantage for they also fight youkai witches. remember when reimu broke a seal in a book that not even patchy could crack? and reimu don't even study.
>Not everyone who joins a god gets to become a super soldier like Reimu or Sanae, thats what I'm saying
why not in lore? every faith has its ways of training and contingency, if anything Christianity was the most succesful in giving methapysical defences to the peasants with crosses and rosaries which can be catalyst for belief. another example is the Papal Bullia of 1484.
>It was stated in DDC that the Gohei, after being used by Reimu, keeps its holy properties for a time, but eventually becomes a simply stick with papers. Faith is power, yes, but there are people who can use it better.
ok
>It was stated in DDC that the Gohei, after being used by Reimu, keeps its holy properties for a time, but eventually becomes a simply stick with papers. Faith is power, yes, but there are people who can use it better.
>Reimu can bless things just fine with her gohei. Hell, she might as well use a simple plain stick for it and it might even do the job still
so again, the Priestly Class can bless and set apart elements and even implies that it can be maintain from the faith of the user
>Yorihime brought the very same goddess of the sun into a fight with a vampire. Magical bullets aren't going to replicate those levels of one shot
yes and we aren't talking about magic attacks but holy charged powers and we are showed they are more efficient in dealing with youkai properties.
>I don't know, do I get tired after I cut my nails and they grow back?
You don't get tired by running 25km? you don't feel pain when sweat and lifting accumulating heat and breaking muscle tissue so in can regrow after a day of muscular exercise. now imagine all the heat waste, accelerate metabolism that goes with regenerate on spot a limb, arm and 3/4 of your destroyed torso.
>I think the setting's reason for this is that Onis and Vampires are related. What an interesting family tree that one is
Thats conjecture of Rinnosuke, even if we grant it, it does not explain why Onis dont burn under the sun or why they dont have chiropteran wings. what does an oni have to do with a Vrykolaka which is the prototype Greek vampire. (that may very well be hidden in the outside world)
>Against a superhuman being that moves faster than his bullets?
most modern bullets are supersonic so it even the field anything else comes down to the feral, Dick Cumson and his skill and wits.
>In real life, Ramses the Second was one of the most succesful pharaohs in Egypt's history, however... Someone fabricated a few events here and there
and even then they cease to be and became Christians and later absorbed by Muslims but since Sanae Mentions those miracles and in touhou the supernatural is real if "allowed" then it reasonable the plagues happen.
>Europe, America, Africa, not the whole world. The hindues, buddhists and shintoits are still going strong.
they are not, if we take the Merry and Renko time they still live under a dreary Materialism hell, Merry in itself is a rebellion at that situation. the diference is that the Christians, Buddisth and Hindu have Backup Theologies and sacred writings (Goes double For Catholics and Hindus with their Central Hieropantic class) the classical Pagans don't.
>A black widow is still a pest controller
Yes, to bad that the kishin exterminator send against her was a lacy fuck who don't check the water tornado.

I will repeat myself, we are in the worldbuilding thread. are you gonna build something or keep arguing in pessimism and bad faith?

>>49379217
>I will repeat myself, we are in the worldbuilding thread. are you gonna build something or keep arguing in pessimism and bad faith?
I think I won't continue with this. You're getting aggresive from nowhere, and these wall texts are not only leading us nowhere, but are also killing the thread.

I will refrain from taking the Youkai side in case Mr. Catholic Space Marine Wannabe, AKA YOU, is around especially to avoid unfun situations like this. I'm also sorry to everybody else who had to endure this

Anything that can be touched can be kill with a 12 gauge slug. Even hourai immortals fear the shotgun

>>49378949
>A black widow is still a pest controller
Seiga really isn't that useful to anybody, even Miko seems a bit ashamed of her.
But I think Seiga and the Taoist hermits are somebody a normal human could technically kill since their souls are in physical objects ala a lich.
Futo's souls is in her plates, Miko keeps her soul in her sword, and Seiga keeps hers in either a hair bow or her pin.
Mind you all of them are Shikaisen, which is the lowest level of hermit, and why Miko calls Kasen a better hermit, she literally is of a higher order of hermit while also being an Oni. Seiga being Wicked in this context doesn't mean anything like being holy, unholy, or evil in nature. The powers granted through understanding of the tao, while sometimes distasteful are a form of enlightenment and understanding of the truth of the universe. Seiga is wicked by virtue of only being able to think of committing petty crimes.
Also as a Shikaisen, the 'human' body you do see is flesh and blood, not made of an exotic type of matter like Youkai are. But as she is still a hermit she can probably reinforce that body and can definitely regenerate it infinitely as long as her soul remains in its vessel.

>>49379616
Seiga isn't a shikaisen, where did you get that?

>>49379622
Dunno I'm just repeating what I've had explained to me elsewhere, but I'm pretty sure Seiga is flesh and blood so you should be able to shoot her.

>>49379647 (me)
Wait I just remembered, Seiga I make describes her going through the process of becoming a Shikaisen through faking her death using a piece of bewitched bamboo and cutting off her family. But does t specify where she moved her soul or explicitly calls her a Shikaisen, but given as it describes her using that methods and she teaches Futon how to become a Shikaisen, her being a Shikaisen is likely.

>>49379660
So it's implied rather than stated.
>cutting off her family
Correction: she cut off her husband's family, while embracing her birth one through becoming a hermit with her father. IMO, original Qing'e > Seiga, ZUN did her dirty.

>>49379980
>Correction: she cut off her husband's family, while embracing her birth one through becoming a hermit with her father. IMO, original Qing'e > Seiga, ZUN did her dirty.
I think metaphorically embracing or rejecting family isn't really the issue here, rather your family literally thinking you are dead. She still uses her husbands last name after all and only left him after eight years which were depressing for her.
We also don't know if she reconnected her father afterwards, he had been missing since her childhood and we never hear of them meeting again.

I know most of it is just cutesie art but do youkai even have infant forms? I know at least the tengu do given that they seem to reproduce like birds and some are former humans turned into youkai but I assume a bunch of other ones just spawned with their current forms.

>>49378009
>>49378687
Well, I would like to make stuff like adventure roleplaying because it is funny to play it while wasted on cheap mead. Same shit as DnD but Touhou with magic being Danmaku and shit like that with high levels of awesome! I'm fucking drunk again...

>>49331388
Maybe they have a few extincted plants and animals over there

>>49379217
Man, being a christian and wanting to talk about the setting from a christian point of view is so impossible for things like this, I just like to ramble about things dammit.

>>49382825
There's that one shadowy youkai Marisa killed, the one who stole shoes. There's also young Shou, in her omake it describes her as something similar as a Youkai with a indistinct form who could vanish at any moment.
So there does seem to be a infant stage, but its something that isn't a 1:1 human analogue, more like an unstable stage where their existence is weak.

>>49382825
I assume they'd mostly be formless weak spirits, something like pic related. Beast youkai may have a traditional infant forms but IIRC most of them were normal animals who later became youkai because of mistreatment during their lives.

Is there any worldbuilding about the new TH20 settings? What's the deal withe the "sanctuaries"? So the pyramid was inside youkai mountain all along? Did ZUN forget about the super sekkrit advanced Tengu city that was implied to be inside? What's with the Tengu vs mountain hags rivalry?

>>49390537
>Mistreatment
Murder. They typically murder somebody and then become a youkai.

>>49390979
That's the case for the man-eating shapeshifting snake youkai in FS but there's also the Eientei inaba in WaHH who became youkai because their owners abandoned or neglected them. Speaking of, I like this portrayal of Tewi, it's one of the rare times she's shown acting as >>49372253 says

>>49387716
OP here. I actually find Christian lore fascinating after finding out that there is an actual prototypical druid in the Bible canon.

> Elisha was the successor to Elijah the Tishbite, a prophet most well-known for his explosive and fiery miracles. Unlike his predecessor, the prophet Elisha seemed to specialize less in firestorms, preferring gentler acts of healing and restoration such as the cleansing of poisons and the purification of waters. Yet when roused, he too could pray forth the most dire punishments. Nowadays, his only legacy remembered among younger thaumaturges is this particular curse.

> As the records state, the prophet Elisha was on his way to Bethel when a group of 42 youths jeered at him, shouting "Go up, baldhead! Go up, baldhead!". In response to this egregious insult, Elisha cursed them in the name of the Lord. Immediately afterward, two female bears came out of the nearby woods and mauled all 42 of the youths.

> This famed prophet summoned two entire ursines just to viciously maul 42 youths for mocking his baldness. The miracle is considered one of the most ridiculous tales ever transcribed.

>>49391207
That's a bit excessive of a punishment, no?

>>49391246
>That's a bit excessive of a punishment, no?
It's old testament punishment, meant to put the fear of God into bratty children and teach them not to heckle and mob old men. Sort of like telling them not to tell lies because an Oni will tear out their tongue.

>>49391246
Do not make fun of balding ojisans

>>49391207
you should see Saint Dionysius of paris. how metal would have been for the Gauls to see a strolling Dullahan of a Priest.

>>49387716
>>49391207
This is a touhou lore thead. Not a jewish fairy tales threads.

>>49391207
Yet another Bible story taken completely out of context due to a bad translation.
The "youths" here meant young people from late teenagers to young adults, not children. "Go up" here meant something akin to "go meet your maker", as in they were threatening to kill him.

>>49392535
>touhou lore thead
Lore/Worldbuilding thread Fag, so get out there and build Fanon, i give you one for free, If kitsunes and Fox Ladys are Canon in touhou, that means the Shang Dynasty did really get fucked by Da-ji

>>49391054
Yeah that's probably one of Tewi's best apperanes, you get to see all sides of her in equal measure. You have her matriarch side, her trickster side, and her business woman side. It's a really great appearance and I hope we get more in the future, fan work or not.

shameless bump

>>49387716
Christian lore is too depressing what with the concept of an eternal hell for most of humanity for never having heard of Yahweh or Jesus and also the fact that every supernatural thing that isn’t an Angel or God is a demon and evil by default. Very “absolute” which just doesn’t fit Touhou. Could work as it’s own series though after all we did have a game called Dante’s Inferno in the past.

>>49392563
summoning two bears to murder 42 people for that is still a massive overreaction
is this that 'turn the other cheek' stuff that christians love?

>>49404924
funny how you bring up another Bible misinterpretation.
>turn the other cheek
has nothing to do with pacifism.
In the Roman Empire, when a master wanted to punish a slave, he'd pimp slap him. But, if you turn the other cheek, he'd have to either slap with the inside of a palm (like a woman, thus lowering himself), or with a fist (as an equal, thus also lowering himself).

FOOLS.
YOU FELL RIGHT INTO MY HAND, THE SETUP IS COMPLETE AND MY PLAN IS IN MOTION.
ALL OF THIS CHRISTIANITY TALK WAS TO BRING ABOUT THE MOST NON DESCRIPT CHARACTER IN THE FRANCHISE.
SARIEL.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
minus antiban

Whats her deal? Is she from christianity, judaism or islam? The only mention of that angel is in a non canon book, did ZUN took the character completely? We know he did with Hecatia, or did he just take the name and made some new lore for her kind of like what happened with Kanako? So many questions that will never have an answer because anything related to God is a no no for Touhou.
Banger theme though.

>>49379616
>Miko calls Kasen a better hermit, she literally is of a higher order of hermit while also being an Oni
After her ability was revealed in detail I feel like it makes a lot of sense why Kasen was able to accomplish this while being clueless of Taoism as a religion. The stranger thing is if she's somehow able to use her ability on herself or maybe used it on humans (they should be animals if touhou 17 is supposed to make sense) to help her discover the qualities of becoming enlightened, so either she's a prodigy by nature of her ability or she learnt from helping others. It also explains the gigantic tiger and eagles that are quite bigger than real ones.

>>49406765
Also if she's learning the ways of a hermit by using her guidance ability on people then her talk about "getting closer to people" in a weird sense works out. Or rather, if she guides anything that is an animal.

She's not that powerful. Fearsome, threatening, yes, but not to the point of being invencible. Hell's probably filled by weak unorganized jobbers who got crushed the moment an actual competent being , AKA Hecc, came around

>>49410693
the onis under her command aren't exactly weak, but I bet that ZUN was referring to her being above gensokyo and lunar capital more in a collective power way, than anything else

I readed some anons saying that hecatia might only be ruling some parts of hell, and that the actual place is much, much, bigger than that, so hecatia can just send onis (who she might be bribing with alcohol) and hell fairies (these fairies idea of fun is torturing you, by the way) at any place smaller than her domain (almost all) in an attrition war

i wonder if heaven and the celestials would manage to hold their own against an assault of hell, considering that the place is already filled up

>>49410748
>considering that the place is already filled up
Its not.

Considering the names like Pandemonium, would Shinki be Touhou's equivalent to Satan? Could Makai be a place that is close to Paradise Lost's depiction of Hell?

>>49370403 (me)
Also this description went through MTL and there's parts that are wrong. Chimi is not a demon, she's a mononoke. Basically a youkai before youkais.

Why is Yukari smelling like someone who sleeps a lot? Well, she does sleep a lot but surely she showers too.

>>49417701
Ran drags her body to get washed while she's hibernating

>>49416168
Shinki is pretty clearly based on SMT Lucifer which is based on the actual Lucifer
The lore for PC98 was never really thought out too much, if you go with the mythological/folklore basis of Modern Touhou, someone like Sariel would be closer to Shinki's sister, but since PC98 lore says she created makai and everything in it she's actually a creation of Shinki's when that doesn't really make much sense.
Personally I just prefer to avoid PC98 unless the main series mentions it in a way it can fit in.

>>49320790 (OP)
>https://powerlisting.fandom.com/wiki/Regeneration/Absolute
So I'm just Kaguya/Mokou/Eirin but without any additional powers? This is bullshit

>>49423613
Oops wrong thread

Anon-tachi, are there any black touhous?

>>49320790 (OP)
The World of Darkness tabletop series fits Touhou like a glove. You should give it a read sometime

How do you think Youkai feel about their far-off lives?
Urumi used to drown people, but now helps them instead and runs a fishing business. Does she ever look back on her history and victims and regret what she did or maybe she just sees that past as being a different person? Youkai have been around for many centauries after all and many of them don't act very sagely, so I don't think they have perfect memories or mature over time like humans do. Perhaps they look back and don't even understand why they did certain things because they no longer have those impulses? Are there any examples of Youkai that became more evil over time instead of less and do they feel the same way as when they were good?

It would be kind of funny if they saw being murderous and violent as a sign of immaturity.

>>49430915
Good question, m8

Urumi in particular seems to be nostalgic of those times, however. It's akin to a viking missing the times when he was a ferocious warrior and went around killing others like him, and sacking villages. It's difficult for more tame people like us to understand that, but its something that cannot be explained through reason. I guess that this is the case for youkai like Urumi.
>so I don't think they have perfect memories or mature over time like humans do.
The other way around: They have seen so much, experienced so much, that anything at this point is just another day for them, so they act aloof and uncaring. While humans are fragile beings, so every success is as glorious as the heavens, and every failure seems like the end of everything for them. As a species, humans are like excitable kids/early teens, while youkai and superhumans such as magicians and hermits are like chill middle aged/ old folks, knowing that everything, good or bad, will come and pass by like everything else at this point

>>49431039
>It's difficult for more tame people like us to understand that, but its something that cannot be explained through reason.
I think we're both 'tame', since there's not a man alive who doesn't want to die in glorious battle, defending their loved ones, but we can't because those are not the times we live in and the same goes for Youkai. Perhaps it isn't easily reasoned about, but I can understand lusting for the glory that lived in the past.
>while youkai and superhumans such as magicians and hermits are like chill middle aged/ old folk
Maybe.
I always think this is a boring way of portraying a long-lived species. It's more interesting if they forget crucial things and lose parts of themselves, like a Ship of Theseus. I don't know which model is closer to actual humans, the idea that we mature and see the same things over and over so we're used to them or that parts of ourselves are replaced slowly over time so we're completely different then we were a decade ago. The replacement theory is less explored, so I prefer that.
Per fragility, the comparison is flawed. Humans, on a whole, benefit from acute stressors like strength-training and social disorder, but Youkai, especially those in Gensokyo, like long, drawn-out stress. This explains why the sudden cultural revolution of rationality worldwide was such a blow to them beyond them being mythological creatures, the times changed so radically and quickly that they had no way to cope. Gensokyo seems built for long-term stability and relatively consistent peace, with incidents being a release valve, but overall very little impactful has happened since the vampire invasion, which brought out spell card duels, in my opinion, this is why humans don't flourish in Gensokyo, it's too peaceful and there's no bridges to defend with our lives.

Anyway, I'm sure I can come up with a pickup line or strange enough gift that'll surprise Urumi, even if she is a centauries-year-old hag.

>>49431238
>I think we're both 'tame', since there's not a man alive who doesn't want to die in glorious battle, defending their loved ones
I meant in the way of vikings casually going into sea raiding and causing terror on who they raided
>It's more interesting if they forget crucial things and lose parts of themselves, like a Ship of Theseus
That would be basically ego death. Long lived youkai can still change some things about them without losing their essence
>Humans, on a whole, benefit from acute stressors like strength-training and social disorder
Humans don't benefit from social disorder. The fact we are having scientific and technogical booms every single year is because we are living in the most peaceful era ever on the face of earth (if you live in the first world, anyway...)
But good point about youkai having a cultural shock over things changing too fast.
>Anyway, I'm sure I can come up with a pickup line or strange enough gift that'll surprise Urumi, even if she is a centauries-year-old hag.
Calling her a hag behind her back might make things harder for you. Oni can smell craven things like that, you know?

>>49431656
>Humans don't benefit from social disorder. The fact we are having scientific and technogical booms every single year is because we are living in the most peaceful era ever on the face of earth (if you live in the first world, anyway...)
I'm not so sure, like drone technology, as an example, has probably advanced greatly in the last three years due to the war in Ukraine alone and it's not just things like war that push technology, competition in the marketplace disruption as some people might say, drives companies to produce better goods, when the government choices winners in the market, such as with healthcare, we don't get nearly the same amount of advancement.
But troublesome topics aside, What I'm trying to express is that, for humans and their society, it's better for trauma to happen all at once, rather then over time. It's like a buffalo choosing to run through the storm because it'll get through the rain faster and it'll be stronger for it then if he just waited for it to pass above him.
Considered from another perspective, Youkai can effectively live forever, so all risks become way more costly because they have eternity to lose, while a human who lives their young life ignorant and wants to pass on a legacy as they grow old will have a much greater sense of risk taking. Higher risks tasks are much more rewarding in terms of strength, experience, and value, so humans would naturally be favored by an environment that was volatile while quasi-immortals would quickly be out-competed, which is what I believe really happened to Youkai in the outside world and a big reason Mamizou fears them.
I've drafted a bunch of stories about Humans who have to adapt to Gensokyo and I've noticed the inflection point, where they go from being aliens to accepted, is always when they take some principled risk, like the difference between saying "oh man, a business that did this would make so much money!" and actually trying it, I've always thought of it as just a way to make the story interesting, but now I think it connects to a more primordial need of man to be engaged in turmoil, or in it's absence, create it.

>Calling her a hag behind her back might make things harder for you. Oni can smell craven things like that, you know?
She's a mature lady and probably appreciates being teased a tad. Push and pull.

>>49431238
>It's more interesting if they forget crucial things and lose parts of themselves, like a Ship of Theseus.
This idea is explored in A Beautiful Flower Blooming Violet Every Sixty Years. Memories are associated in 60 year cycles. But it's debatable whether it's true for all youkai or if Yukari is just senile. I can't find it, but I also recall seeing something about Cirno having similar recall issues, but again, is that a common trait or is it because she's an idiot? It's at least introducing the concept as a possibility, which is more interesting for the reasons you said.

>>49431851
>But it's debatable whether it's true for all youkai or if Yukari is just senile
She is talking a bunch about boundaries so maybe.
It distinguishes between "memories" and "history" and how humans think of things, so it might be that Youkai are defined by history rather then their own memories because of Human perception.

This also has given me a sort of epiphany. Stronger emotions make more impactful memories, so Youkai, living peaceful lives in Gesnokyo, probably don't have many impactful memories, because being bereft of trauma would cause them to lack such things. We gotta help them make some memories!

>>49431870
So we need to rape them more often?

>>49431809
>I'm not so sure
While war (in all of its facets) might push for some quick changes, its a self eating beast that will eventually consume itself, and its not like advancements weren't on their way during peace
>Considered from another perspective, Youkai can effectively live forever
You treat them as if they were long lived humans, which is not the case here. Youkai are very willing to get into bloody fights out of boredom
>but now I think it connects to a more primordial need of man to be engaged in turmoil, or in it's absence, create it.
Maybe man is the ultimate youkai... But aside we disagree in certain things, your posts are rather cool.
>Push and pull
Careful now, push too much and she might pull your ribs open

>>49374965
You better prepare that 48 ponds of cokaine to get ready to believe to your fullest.

I'm inclined to believe from all the in-universe interviews and observations that Rumia is actually far more intelligent than she lets on. She gives the impression of being dumb as bricks by making her surroundings too dark to see causing her to bump into trees, but at the same time she also shows that she actually does have a very good control of the darkness and can really see at such dark places that not even Aya could see anything in.
It's also ironic that the man-devouring hunter youkai reputation went to the one character who has stated that she finds it a bother and boring to hunt humans.

>>49320790 (OP)
Reminder that Doremy is canonically one of the prettiest girls in the setting, based only on ZUN seeing her portrait in 15.5 (which is much prettier than everybody else in that game) and approving it

>>49436611
She finds it a bother to put effort into hunting humans. She's basically a pitcher plant that moves.

>>49430915
>How do you think Youkai feel about their far-off lives?
They don't think. Youkai are pure id. They do stuff because it amuses them. When they get bored of that, they move on to do something else. They are incapable of true maturity, with even ancient Youkai still being petty little shits incapable of kindness or morality.

The closest equivalent to a Youkai who seemed to have made a turn about of her own volition is Suika. Who went from terrorizing Japan to being mostly chill, outside of ZUN's recent attempt to ruin her anyway.

>>49442829
I dunno that's kind of boring, Koishi already exists so I don't really see a reason why to give all other Youkai her gimmick.

>>49442836
Koishi really doesn't act that differently from most Youkai. If anything the biggest difference is that she's just inherently less sadistic. Most Youkai, if they had Koishi's power, would go around stealing children rather than pretending to be their friend.

>>49442842
I don't really see the appeal, I like to characterize youkai as having more motive. I think it's more interesting if more motive is attributes to youkai, I get that some people like to focus of their inhumanity from a writing perspective but I think that can be a bit reductionist and compared to them being able to have complex motives that inform their actions over their long live. Of course there are more simplistic and animalistic ones, like Wriggle and Mystia, but I think extending that to all youkai is a bit boring.
Also I don't understand why you'd choose Suika of all people to be a youkai who doesn't act like other youkai when she seems pretty archetypal of what you describe.
Her entire introductory game is about her mind controlling people to have parties just because, and Yukari's story is all about Yukari being worried about her friend Suika, who's acting reckless.

>>49442890
I agree it's more interesting, I just don't think it's rooted in canon. Most youkai just seems to be little shits with no grasp of morality or common decency. Yukari is the most complex one and she's 1: Constantly mocked by other youkai both old and young. 2: Possibly a former human.

>Also I don't understand why you'd choose Suika of all people to be a youkai who doesn't act like other youkai when she seems pretty archetypal of what you describe.
Because she's one of the three terrors of Japan and by all measures her mind controlling people to throw parties is incredibly mild compared to the kind of shit she used to do. She's clearly mellowed out considerably and that does indicate Youkai are capable of change to at least some extent. Granted, it might be another Kasen situation.

>>49442890
NTA but characters like Komachi directly go against the stuff that should affirm her existence as a shinigami by slacking off in WaHH and this is highlighted. Some youkai go along with their nature, role or "work" because that simply makes them what they are. Oni display behaviors and take part in traditions that they should by all means dislike probably for similar reason (depends on the oni and the pribt work, WaHH Suika is excited for setsubun while Kasen has a psychological reaction to beans, LE Suika dislikes beans if I recall)
Youkai probably have varying levels of attachment to their nature depending on what kind of youkai they are and because of circumstance. Youkai can turn into other youkai, like Eiki being similar to Narumi before she became the yama. Similarly they can probably varyingly think of the future.

>>49442907
I agree with Suika having calmed down, but I don't she she acts unlike how you describe other Youkai asking.
If anything she's entirely archetypal
Who knows how she'd act in a situation where she's allowed to attack humans, but when we do see her she doesn't act with much forethought and just does what she wants.

>>49442997
> but I don't she she acts unlike how you describe other Youkai asking.
I think most other Youkai are way more malicious and selfish in their idea of fun. Less "Brainwash people into having parties" and more "Keep young maidens around as maidservants until they get bored and eat them".

>Who knows how she'd act in a situation where she's allowed to attack human
Well, we kind of do. Again, I'm assuming she's more chill than that. I can't see that Suika ever just enjoying the company of people.

>>49443055
I would describe brainwashing people due to wanting to have a part as
>>49442829
>being [a] little shit(s) incapable
And also being immature, literally forcing your ideas onto people like that is pretty childish. So I think she mostly fits the criteria you described, but personally I'd decouple kindness and morality.
Is Mystia moral? No, she attack and ate humans than when Tewi convinced her to start a business she started scamming people. But I don't see her being mean to Aya or a friend of her's like Kyouko. I'd argue Wriggle isn't moral or mature either, but she's not exactly evil, all she does is come up with failed business idea to get humans to like insects more.
Likewise with Suika her mind control is clearly immoral, and you could probably characterize any altruism of hers up to wanting to entertain herself or wanting to preserve the status quo to protect her own life. Neither do I think a youkai that attacks people wouldn't be able to enjoy company, or just want to mooch off of them during a party. Especially if she was very youkai-like and be immature, and thus, not think anything of harming humans.
So I think if youkai are being characterized as universally immature and evil, a Suika who's more typical of that behavior is more believable than one who's not.

>>49436611
>finds it a bother and boring to hunt humans.
Why would anyone feel this way?

Does anyone have a good map of Gensokyo? I'm working on a Touhou lore powerpoint to explain the setting to my irl friends and I plan to post it here on /jp/ when I'm done but that's probably a week or two away.

>>49460825
I like this map

>>49460871
This is probably the best map out there, its the one Im using for my fanfic.

Has anyone in Touhou ever remarked on the fact that you can reach every afterlife on foot from Gensokyo? I know Yukari just sort of... left the portal to the Netherworld open, but Old Hell physically underneath Gensokyo, and the Sanzu River is similarly just sitting there. I think you can go to Heaven by just flying up from Youkai Mountain too. Was Gensokyo made that way? I always figured Gensokyo's border with the afterlives was weak on purpose in order to herd apocalypses somewhere they could be snuffed out by a yook exterminator.

Have any of you ever repurposed old fanfic you wrote into an original thing or at the very least based something new on an old fanfic of yours? If so, how much did you have to change before it truly became its own thing?

>>49464311
I have, sort of, but not with Touhou stuff.

>>49464298
No, you just learn to accept everything at face value, Gensokyo and Touhou as a whole is quirky like that.

>>49460871
>The path towards Hakurei Shrine from the Human Village connects deeply with Youkai Trail
>Also Forest of Magic so close to it
No wonder Reimu barely gets donations. She should take notes from Kanako and find a way to make it safer for humans

>>49455208
She said that in the interview Aya gave her likely an effect from the ofuda

>>49475041
That sounds like a very weird side effect from being sealed off, humans are normally portrayed as the ultimate prey.
>>49470218
I think her shrine has more problems than just the location, anon.

What is the main source of inspiration of the Touhou depiction of Hell? It's not quite Abrahamic.

>>49480862
True, she comes across as a total slasher villain in the games.

>>49486504
Japanese? Hell seems pretty bhuddist to me, hell exists in some shape or form in a myriad of religions.

>>49464311
the Otherside Picnic guy originally wrote Otherside Picnic as a Hifuu Club fanfic, realised "hey wait a sec" deleted it from the internet and then Otherside Picnic got published

as for me, no I don't really write but I definitely would if I did

Interesting thread anons
>>49464298
Unsure if the borders where made weak on purpose. At least in the case of the Netherworld, that was Yukari literally sleeping on the Job and the whole reason of the Phantasm stage is to tell her to fix it. We all know how that went.
I was under the impression that the Sanzu River was "infinite" and you needed special abilities (such as Komachi's) to traverse it.
>>49460871
Everyone likes this map
>Youkai Morals
One thing is what Youkai are and another is to say if they are "good" or "bad" Youkai. Lets take >>49442920
example with Komachi. The concept of the shinigami is the one who takes you when its time and transports you through the river. That would be a "good" shinigami. With this logic, Komachi is a terrible shinigami. Things having a spectrum is not unheard of, you will always have good of X and bad of Y.
As for why would man-eating youkai would stop behaving like that and accept the current code? Two reasons: 1st, Self preservation. If you dont follow the rules, you get gohei'd. 2nd, necesity. Those that are capable of abandoning violent behavior towards humans (or at least tone it to a minimum) can simply adapt. The rest had a nice invitation from Yukari to join the first lunar invasion.
>Effectiveness of weapons on Youkai
That was a long discussion. Now I dont want to get into christianity, but into the limits of Youkai damage threshold. Lets say that two Tengu clans have a little skirmish. You have Momiji with her sword and shield for clan A and another wolf tengu for clan B. In the event of war, it is understood that the battles will be to the death. How much punishment a wolf tengu can take before it becomes lethal? And by lethal I mean either wolf tengu B or Momiji are not coming back again.
One final question that is linked to the last one. Let us say Rumia misbehaves and get's gohei'd. The fear of the dark will never cease. A new youkai of dusk should eventually take form. Would that be Rumia or she gets to see Eiki?

>>49410693
Okina, Keiki, Shinki, and Tenshi's dad could give her a run for her money. Fight me!

>>49493261
Is Hell in Touhou supposed to be eternal? I know that the buddhist equivalent to Hell is just temporary but I wonder if that's not the case here.

>>49501390
Heaven isn't letting any new people in, but it's a reincarnation deal. You do your time in hell then get reincarnated.

>>49501390
Touhou hell is not supposed to be eternal, but due to how much of a shitshow bhuddism is as a religion it might as well be eternal.
>>49506386
WHY are celestials pulling a pools closed on mortals anyways, are they that much of a piece of shit? Ive never seen anyone actually talk about that, just memes about it.

>>49513047
It does sound extremely weird
Imagine living your entire life as celestials intended just to be told "sorry, you're going to hell eitherway".
I guess there is a reason of why Hecc is doing her hell expansion proyect

>>49513294
This sounds like something that could serve as the basis for an incident in a future game or manga.

>>49320790 (OP)
I’m very glad to see this thread. I was actually in the middle of writing fanfiction about Jo’on’s time at the Myouren Temple, and I’m considering whether it’s possible for her to really have lasting personal change, as a god of pestilence. I know that the nature of youkai is to some extent fixed, and so the work of the Myouren temple is somewhat an exercise in futility. But could it be possible for such a being to change fundamentally without depending on humans to *observe* that change and speak it into being, so to speak?
I know that Shou was able to change her identity, but that was only because tigers had been forgotten in Japan for so long and so it was easy for her to change as she was relaxed from the “zeitgeist”, if that makes sense. But could it also happen in more mundane circumstances? I think in the end I’ll have to stick to the canon of Jo’on losing interest in the luster of jewels, hiding out in human society but only stealing from those with excess so she wouldn’t be disadvantaging the poor. But I expect such a change would be painful, especially for a “being” (god, youkai, whatever) whose identity is already pretty crystallized in the minds of the humans in Gensokyo.

>>49515352
Yeah, totally, Kanako mentions offhand in SoPM its way easier for gods to go that sort of thing and gods do engage in mythbuilding to change their nature.
Suwako emphasizes frogs instead of the horrible curse god aspect, Kanako wants to become some sort of industry god.
In the first place nothing Jo'on does actually has to do with disease so she's not even a particularly pestilent pestilence god.
And when her dream is described by Doremy, she says that Jo'on only dreams about being able to live the simple life while Shion just wants to eat good food to her hearts' content.
I think the bigger issue is Shion, Jo'on doesn't want to leave Shion and is also too comfortable in her current way of life. While Shion has a kind of useless personality resistant to change, while also not having anybody there that's really trying to get her to change.

>>49515398
Thank you anon. This is very helpful. And yeah, it does seem that Shion is holding her sister back. I’ll have to figure out how to write that into the story.

>>49513047
>>49513294
I envision Heaven as pretty much Columbia from Bioshock, minus the steampunk

>>49515352
>I know that the nature of youkai is to some extent fixed
Youkais, not Gods, Kanako is changing her own nature to survive.

>>49387716
That moron is more focused on wanking his shit than on creative writing. I mean, does he even know the lore where he wants to insert his faggotry?

Foreign saints function in exactly the same way as the gods we know. Saint Nicholas had to become Santa Claus to expand his reach and gather more faith, and even then, someone as universally known and successful as him is at best compared to a Kami (Sarutahiko, a tengu god and leader of the earthly kami). If ordinary Shinto priestesses are not particularly powerful, and that is all that a St. Nicholas can achieve, what hope is there for priests? Especially modern ones. Not to mention that Sarutahiko is so successful being worshipped only by tengu, a much smaller number of followers, I suppose it's because youkai have much deeper faith than humans.

According to a MoF ending, in the outside world, people's faith in gods was weakened by the appearance of "bad cults and religions". If gods wish to regain the faith of humans, they must swallow their pride and be friendly. Christian lore is very absolute and its god too arrogant, so that explains why they are on the verge of disappearing in the outside world.

>>49523091
I'm no religion expert, but is any of the religions inside Gensokyo that is monotheistic? Common sense tells me that any monotheistic religion (Christianity for example) is highly incompatible with Gensokyo in the long run. Then again, something something there is no common sense etc etc

>>49528782
When monks recorded norse and irish myths, they changed the gods to be powerful kings and saints. They would probably try to convert the gods along with the humans and yokai.

>>49320790 (OP)
let's play a little with racism

fairies are very annoying, to the point that every species dislike them (magicians seem to get along with them, however), but is the industrialistic kappa where they find their natural enemies. in the print works, is noted that kappas contaminate nature with their activities (ironically, the rivers they are so fond of get don't get a special treatment. zun not pulling the punches there), and fairies are avatars of nature magically given form, so they will get weakened, maybe even killed, if kappas would get free roam. even if fairies might be a little too stupid to realise the menace kappas are to them, they absolutely understand that sabotaging their super complex technology is a thrill that dirtying a human's house up, or just breaking their simple tools, won't give them.

>>49515398
It's ironic how people see Jo'on as the bad sibling and feel pity for Shion, when its actually in the reverse. Don't judge a book by its cover

>>49533853
This happens with the Watasukis too.
Although I feel pity for Shion because its my fetish and Id fuck the living daylights out of her, I know very well that putting my dick in her would be the last thing Id do, but what a way to go would that be.

>>49533853
She's just the more outwardly dysfunctional one in their first outing so the impression kind of stuck.

>>49533565
>in the print works, is noted that kappas contaminate nature with their activities
Really? I had no idea. Can I have the source? I was under the impression that since they live in the river it was of their highest interest to find to keep it clean somehow

>>49515398
>nothing Jo'on actually does has to do with disease
This is actually a case of Jo'on already having undergone change. When she first cake into existence, she was a god of infectious disease, a literal pestilence god. Her role just changed over time. I imagine Shion has always been the way she is though. Poverty is as old as humanity.

>>49533565
>kappas contaminate nature with their activities
yeah... about that anon...

水に強い機械で、外の世界よりも恐らくエコな河童の技術は、幻想郷のパワーバランスの均衡を破る恐れがあります。しかし、河童は権力には興味が薄いようで幻想郷は助かっています。

"Kappa technology, which is water-resistant and probably more eco-friendly than that of the outside world, can threaten the power balance of Gensokyo. But since the Kappa have little interest in power, Gensokyo is spared."

Whispered Oracle of Hakurei Shrine/Nitori Kawashiro.

I wonder if kappa tech is more vulnerable to EMP or Electrical Attacks, given it function with water.

>>49534690
there.
>>49535701
emphasis on 'probably'. don't forget that the fortunes are in-universe written by reimu

Can't wait for the fanfic of singyoku origins.
Mortal priest becomes intertwined with the 4th legendary oni and yukari makes said priest the main instrument for the creation of gensokyo as a whole and final sacrifice for its barrier as ordained by dragon sama, becoming the new god residing in the hakurei shrine. Seething eternally at reimu for not making a bloody mess out of youkai wherever they pop up.

>>49536550
Oh right, that. I don't know how did I forget it. Thanks anon

>>49391318
Except for the fact that the Oni are the bad guys and God is not.

Just how "good" are the oni anyways? Onis were supposed to be these honest men that liked straightfowardness and no tricks, but 2 out of the 3 names onis we have go against that.

>>49539029
I think all 3 generally hate tricks and want their opponents to be more straightforward though? Suika and Kasen can't stand Yukari half the time because of her mustache twirling.

>>49539029
Suika is a genuine trickster and is pretty unlike other oni, Yuugi is pretty honest about being a fightfag. I don't know enough about Kasen to say anything but she is definitely more honest than Suika

>>49533565
Talking about racism, Patchouli herself introduced the very same beans that are harmful to onis into Gensokyo.

And I personally see magicians and tengu not liking each other very much, for some reason. Maybe because tengu are seen as constantly breaching the privacy of others, and so far the magicians seem like a hermitic bunch with a lot of secrets under their hats. At the same time, the latter are obviously implied to be a very curious bunch, and many more than just one magician would try to sneak around into tengu territory to satisfy their curiosity, with the inhabitants not liking it one bit

>>49544509
Total tengu death.

If a modern special forces operator learned danmaku, what spell cards would they have?

>>49545332
None because danmaku is for women and no special forces operator is a woman

>>49545821
Danmaku is not exclusively for women, its an activity that mainly interests women, but men can learn it too.

>>49544509
>I personally see magicians and tengu not liking each other very much
I don't see anyone liking the Tengu very much, not even the Tengu liking each other. What I see is respect and mutual benefit relationship however.
Any group that can amass the power and territory the Tengu have while at the same time being so full of themselves are guaranteed to not be liked
You also have to take into consideration which Tengu you usually get to interact with. You have 3 options: Reporters that are annoying by default, border security who have to be hostile towards you for contextual reasons or some higher up that wants to strike a deal (which I imagine are a rare occurrence)
At best I imagine people being indeferent towards them, which is why I would expect from someone like Luna who reads the bunbunmaru, but doesn't really interacts with the tengu
>>49545332
Definetly not a timeout one. Special Forces usually are all about doing whatever they are tasked to be done as quick as possible
For the same reason, expect "burst type" attacks and not constant streams of bullets

>>49544509
>I personally see magicians and tengu not liking each other very much, for some reason.
Funny because in Patchouli Case, she lives in the SDM which is stated in lore that nobody likes Devils, youkai and humans alike. (yes, stated by Zun, Magician are like devils)

>>49548868
The whole "no one likes magicians" situation can be explained by their kind of innate curiosity and attempts to do something new.
Marisa is always doing some dumb experiments, I bet patch does her fair amount of experimentation too, Alice research on live dolls and even Byakuren starting a temple (granted, there is nothing magical about the last one, but it is something "new" regardless).
Since Gensokyo is more stable by not changing at all, creativity can be a dangerous game. By extension, magicians are not liked... or so I think.
The same logic should apply for the Kappa and Yamawaro imo

>>49548959
I think it's due to magicians, and what I believe to be an interchangeable title of alchemist is the fact that often than not they achieve immortality or extended life by reaching the absolute endpoint of their knowledge and straight convince themselves of whatever it is they believe and the world cannot argue and agrees. Doing this while still retaining a greater relative portion of that unnameable human essence that allows the common man the ability to influence the beings of less density like youkai, demons, and djinn far more than some youkai and possibly even some hermits. Makes sense why youkai stay away from them

>>49548959
Kappa lack that 'oomph' that would make them threatening. They can manipulate water, which is a death sentence to non-youkai, but anybody else will just be like.. ok? They also have guns, but... There was a discussion above here that nobody wants to repeat. The tengu probably also petitions them to keep their inventions their side of Gensokyo to avoid problems. So, the youkai of Gensokyo see them as weird shy nerds and nothing else (unless we get the Moriya ending where Kanako industralises Gensokyo)

Magicians, however, are another beast completely. With wannabes like Marisa mastering an orbital cannon spell that erases anything that touches it, one can wonder what the likes of accomplished ones can do (that aren't jobbers like Alice or Patchouli). So they are kind of a threat to Gensokyo's status quo. Luckily, none of them are interested in changing things, with the exception of Byakuren, but she doesn't want to mess with youkai, so there's that

>>49555294
So far I can agree that the Kappa keep their inventions to themselves. And the times they don't are because they are either asked to (Moriya Ropeway) or they conceal them as magical objects (weather prediction machine disguised as a dragon statue in the village), keeping the wonderous things wonderous.
However, you only need one rogue kappa or missing equipment for a human to pick up and instead of deeming it as a magical item, study it and maybe reverse engineer it. Granted not every item can be easily understood by humans with their current education (like the invisibility cloaks they use), but easier-to-understand inventions can be harmful for youkai if understood by humans.
As I was writing this. I remembered Kourin already sells outside world stuff. Meaning there is already human exposition to higher tech. I guess that the humans in Gensokyo are just that uninterested in researching technology.

>>49533565
>magicians seem to get along with them, however
You're thinking of Alice and Marisa, in Marisa's case she's so fairy like they end up becoming attached to her like she's their cool big sister or something
and in Alice's case like that story of the king who drank poison until he became immune, she's tolerated the presence of Marisa for so long that she can't even register 3 mini-Marisas as a problem

I started brainstorming and the very early development process of a Gensokyo tabletop campaign. It's going to hit the major incidents somewhat out of order minus EoSD and DDC because they're boring and I don't care about them, culminating with LoLK, with extra bosses and various scenarios heavily lifted from various non-h doujins for side quest padding.

Basically it's going to be jumbled together fanfiction of fanfiction with my personal interpretations on things. I also haven't done any creative writing in like 10 years. I might have bitten off more than I can chew but the vision in my head is clear.

>>49555402
Which begs the question: Aren't kappa suicidal in a way? They push for things that make youkai die

>>49556806
It's fanon, but in the game Genso Wanderers, theres a item which is a drawing book. If you check the description, it would say that Patchouli personally gifted it to Cirno, which is very cute.

>>49564928
Maybe there is a cycle that resets them to the stone age every 60 years

>>49320790 (OP)
Seeing PC98 Marisa as a redhead, then a blonde... Maybe the use of magic in touhou makes your hair change for some reason? Patchouli's hair colour is an unnatural one after all.

time to close up

>>49572172
There's still a little bit more time left

>>49539029
>>49540865
despite lying her ass off about being an oni for her entire manga, Kasen definitely dislikes lies more than Suika. A pretty big part of Kasen's character is that she's still more oni-like than she'd like to admit.

>>49573584
Kasen is a complex character and I like
Suika is just an ass and I don't like
Fight me

>>49573818
Kasen is probably one of the very few complex characters in Touhou. IMO, even more than Suika, Mamizou, or Aya despite their constant appearances in the mangas.

>>49324853
I don't know about Minoriko Aki being that important, sure, she is known for being the only goddess of harvest we know of, and everything related to the farmers, the problem comes when you dwell into why she isn't as powerful as she should, there is big competition between godesses of harvest themselves.Maybe she would be seen as a nuisance by those who don't put their faith on her and farm on stuff she does not favor.
As it says on SoPm, she sees those who emply non-traditional methods on their farming as her enemies, if she so wishes she will come and trample on your crops, making her more involved approach with humans as a form of conflict more personal than a simple curse by a god atop the mountain. A grudge that will not settle until you size her up on a fight. It should be fair to assume that the quantity of people who do not favor her on top of other gods is significant enough that she does not even have a half of the faith of the farmers.