Thread 49884268

It sucks.

ZUN has completely lost the ability to make catchy melody and music as he did in decades past. Now all he can make is noise.

do not reply

>>49884271
ok

>>49884271
Truth hurts doesn't it? The songs progressively kept getting worse sometime after TH15 and onwards. I've been keeping a close watch on ZUN's works hoping he'll make some sort of redeeming comeback for TH20 but look at what we got. A steaming pile of disappointing and forgettable dogshit. I played through the game 4 times already and I can't even mentally replay any of the stage and boss songs in my head. That's how bad it all has become.

>>49884304
>I played through the game 4 times already and I can't even mentally replay any of the stage and boss songs in my head
You might be mentally impaired.

>>49884304
good job on your normal clears anon! try playing the game next time

>>49884313
Doesn't take a genius to figure out the general melody of a given song after hearing it once or twice. The new "songs" we got are just forgettable noise.
>>49884315
>implying anyone takes the game seriously
It's not 2008 anymore old man.

>>49884304
Golden State of Prester John, Four Color Labyrinth, Watatsuki's Spell Card (Which isn't even new), Stone Goddess, Fantastic Drift, Hallucination Upon a Bivalve...
Sounds like you're just retarded. All of the songs I listed I can perfectly recall, and some of them aren't even ones I particularly like.

>>49884330
>he needs to play it "seriously" to be able to do anything more than normal
you are shit at everything

>>49884268 (OP)
I have been saying this a lot but the quality of Touhou genuinely got worse from TH15 onwards. The music,n the drawings, character design, even plot.

And something I also want to say is that a lot of fans (even in this thread) are the typical purists that think the game's quality does not matter and that everyone saying that it got worse are anti's or not true fans. Fucking pathetic

>>49884349
i get youre on drugs or something but at least contain yourself to one thread

>>49884268 (OP)
I'm still getting used to it. Perhaps it's just me forcing myself to like it, but with every soundtrack post-11 I've thought that this is the weakest soundtrack ever. I even disliked Cosmic Mind at first, and thought LoLK soundtrack was pretty atrocious, especially Pure Furies. Lo' and behold, a lot of the songs from the modern soundtracks have become my favorite, and I'd say LoLK to UDoALG has some of my all-time favorite songs and my favorite songs to listen to as is, as originals and not just as remixes. It takes time getting used to his songs I've found, and when you grasp the melodies and understand the flow of the song, it becomes much easier to follow and enjoy the song itself. Modern ZUN songs have more unconventional song structures a lot of the time.

I also resent the idea of comparing new songs to old songs, because it's just completely unfair. Whether the older songs are good or not (objectively or subjectively), they are seared into your brain because you've had almost two decades to get used to them. You don't remember whether everything was instantly catchy or not, because of course they are catchy now, especially if you are an older fan, since you've had so much time to get used to them. There's also no shortage of arranges and remixes to bolster those views of old songs being better, as they've gotten more attention overall and been part of the doujin music scene when touhou was at all-time high in terms of popularity.

With that said, I don't really enjoy the drum sample he is overusing starting from Nareko's theme spanning all the way to the extra stage. I enjoyed the electronic vibes and drums of previous modern games more.

>>49884330
You sure aren't a genius, I'll give you that. After playing thru the game twice, I could already recall most of the melodies, even the ones I didn't particularly like. Did you disable the music or something?

>waah waah this is the worst game EVER everything about it is SHIT i want to murder ZUN with my bare hands
People have done this on repeat for every new release since Touhou 10.

>>49884358
You should NOT have to fucking force yourself to like ZUN's older works. No one should have to. You liked those older songs from the start because they were genuinely great with their own distinct characteristics and melody that anyone can easily recognize.

>>49884349
What do you think happened after LoLK that make it worse? Genuine question, because I have seen so many people putting LoLK on a pedestal and to me that game was mediocre as FUCK

The fact is, ZUN is getting senile, the fact he still making new game is something commendable, but at the same time it’s been fucking 30 years, no one can keep staying creative after that long

>>49884374
>You liked those older songs from the start because they were genuinely great with their own distinct characteristics and melody that anyone can easily recognize.
I started playing touhou in the late 2000s. I cannot for the life of me pinpoint what songs I genuinely liked and found memorable. I do remember finding most of the stage themes bad and uninteresting, and only cared for select few boss themes. The fact that I can instantly recognize most songs from the older works doesn't mean I enjoy them either, or would be able to hum them in entirety.

I would say he still got it, but again I just grew out of the older song with the ZUNpets, I realize his old instruments were too loud and drown out the melodies
Modern song are softer, mix better and are more pleasant to my ear

>>49884404
>I just grew out of the older song with the ZUNpets, I realize his old instruments were too loud and drown out the melodies.
Agreed completely desu. I can't stand the loud ZUNpets of the early Windows games even if they are an important part of a lot of songs, songs that I adore to this day too. Necrofantasia's beginning is a genuine jumpscare for instance, just really unpleasant to listen to.

>>49884355
Kill yourself troll

>>49884381
I am going to be honest. I can understand that you thought the game was bad, but I think it leans more towards personal preferences. As why the game is good and was the pedestal, I would say it was because it had iconic characters, a funny plot, was hard as hell, and also gave us some good music. The game that came later, HSiFS was pretty boring, did not have any of that, the music was forgettable, the character designs a bit acceptable and the gameplay was not at the level of the previous works. To make you understand, maybe TH15 was not as good as some people paint it, the problem is when you compare it to what came later. However, I would say that 17 and 18 were enjoyable. I really wish Touhou ended in 18. It would have been perfect. But yeah, a lot of people say that LOLK was the last good game because even thought it was not the absolute best in Touhou, it was way better than what came later.

>>49884414
Necrofantasia is a song that perfectly presents the problem with PCB's overly loud music and personally I find it hard to listen to the original for long periods of time

>2014
>ZUN has son
>2015
>TH15 releases
>2016
>ZUN has daughter
>every subsequent game gets worse
Oh that's why. Happens every time like clockwork lmao. You breed, you lose.

>>49884415
I can see why people would complain, but I would rather attributed it to people getting bored of things over time, especially when it come to the mainline game that is strictly just bullet hell
The only reason I am still around is because Gensokyo as a settings is still interesting to me and I wanted to see how far ZUN could go

>>49884422
I always thought that about old touhou music. Call me whatever you want but I never liked the low quality sound of the old soundtrack, its style is good, but it just was not my type. The thing that made the old soundtrack good was the potential it had for remixes. I did not enjoy the OG Necrofantasia very much but its remixes are such a delict to the ears. The melody and the vibe was so good for doujin music because of how simple but still unique it was.

>>49884414
>>49884422
Not to say ALL ZUNpets was bad, just that ZUN seem to get more experimental with times, the latest game abandoned ZUNpets altogether, that’s why a lot of people think it felt lacking
Did you know there are people actually coping that it’s just because the ZUNpets instrument broke so he did not use it?

>>49884268 (OP)
he's been making the same game using the same formula for over 20 years, just adding a new shot type gimmick won't be enough to keep things fresh. I'm sure he'd like to do new things but he can't code for shit and he has a family taking up his time.

>>49884427
>I can see why people would complain, but I would rather attributed it to people getting bored of things over time, especially when it come to the mainline game that is strictly just bullet hell
I really do not think it is tiredness. I would be pretty happy if a new touhou game released in the usual bullet hell format and actually had good music and good designs. And usually a devoted fan of the franchise would enjoy playing every game. I really do think is because of quality that people complain. Of course some people may get tired, but I do not heard that often, at max I heard people complaining about Marisa and Reimu being the protagonist in everything.

>>49884433
Do people need to keep being reminded that ZUN is autistic about keeping the mainline game a bullet hell series? If he wanted to do other things, he would do it in .5 games, but integer game are strictly bullet hell for branding

>>49884425
He has a daughter? I thought he had two kids. I have never seen any photo of his kids or a link to their social media. I sometimes feel his family is a social experiment.

>>49884439
>good music
subjective
>good designs
subjective

Go into incognito mode on youtube and look up "touhou 20 ost". It's a barren wasteland. Very sad sight to see.

Ah yes, arguments about entirely subjective things. Now this is /jp/ after the release of a good game. (objective)

>>49884467
No it isn't?

Someone make an edit of Two Minutes Hate but with Zun instead of Big Brother

>>49884268 (OP)
It was pretty good.
You can pretty easily trace the trajectory from 19 to TJD to this game's music, which was a pleasant surprise since TJD was also pretty decent, although it suffered from being excessively experimental and having too unorthodox of an instrumentation. This OST fixes most of those problems. It was quite piano heavy, but its presence wasn't overwhelming, since it was balanced by drums, electric guitar, and digital sound. This created a pretty good compromise between ZUN's old and new style, although I have to say, the less electric guitar there was in a track, the more I liked it, with one exception.
To be fair to you, a lot of the tracks in the first half of the game do utilize an overwhelming amount of notes, which you might perceive as "noise," but it was far from atonal.
Even the worst tracks are at least comparable with the worst tracks in LoLK, although a 1-to-1 comparison is impossible since they have different atmospheres they seek to express.
I found myself quite enjoying everything stage 4 and onwards. The stage 4 theme even had some ZUNpets. If you can get past the strange intro, Yuiman's theme would feel right at home with the more piano heavy tracks from EoSD or MoF, honestly.
Many of the tracks, good and bad, has a "hook," a main motif, with the rest of the track bridging the gaps between different renditions of that motif. That was quite reminiscent of a lot of post-romantic classical compositions, which I quite liked. It was certainly unique, as far as Touhou OSTs go, but I personally enjoyed it.
If I had to give it a big, general criticism, it wasn't as focused as the earlier(1st gen Windows) OSTs, and even the individual tracks could have been more polished, but after game after game of pure garbage, I wasn't expecting some Gesamtkunstwerk.
As with all aesthetic discussion, it's mostly down to personal taste, so I understand that it might not fit your idea of a good OST, but I hope we can at least agree that it compares favorably to the 18 and 19 OST.

>>49884450
It's no surprise to see your works go in the shitter when you have kids. Your life is practically over the moment you spawn one into the world as your personal time is no longer your own.

>>49884486
>>49884425
oops

>>49884268 (OP)
The last Decent Touhou Game was UM, after that ZUN just gave up completely.
You may have your gripes with it, it's certainly not a perfect game, but it still manages to be "Good enough"
Everything after that is legitimately in "barely even trying" territory.

>>49884472
>the release of a good game. (objective)
This lack of polish from a developer with almost 30 years of gamedev experience is absolutely disgraceful. You've just become used to the guy producing mediocre games and accept it as the norm.

>>49884467
Ah yes, 20k views in 2 days (not counting jap viewers) is nothing

>>49884503
>UM
lol

>>49884516
>I love cherrypicking!

>>49884467
Anon nobody dare posting official OST yet, you would have thought people would remember it is literally against the guideline to do so

>>49884268 (OP)
I liked
>snek's theme
>chimi's theme
>stage 3 theme

>>49884467
after people were getting copyright strikes and all sorts for the demo ost, people are being more cautious

>>49884530
>the guideline
Ah yes, the guideline. How could I have forgotten about that? You are absolutely positively hecking correcterino! Have a gold mister stranger.

I like it all except the last boss theme which is a first for sure.

>>49884542
Copyright strikes for what? I thought ZUN made his works a copyright free fanwork material paradise. Was I lied to?

>>49884486
What exactly are the problems when you have kids? I have heard often that when you have a girlfriend you now have a great responsibility, and personally thats why I would never have a partner. I guess it is even worse qhen is a tiny living being no?

>>49884543
Leave it to the totally native Touhou fans that are totally not ragebainting to post fucking basedjaks. Totally not obvious in the slightest!

>>49884552
Anon, quite recently there was a copyright takedown of official ost, such as 18 and 19

>>49884561
From whom? Why? This goes against everything ZUN intended his works to be used creatively.

>>49884564
lil bro lacks critical information

>>49884567
>lil bro isn't terminally online 24/7

>>49884517
It sure is better than 19 and 20

>>49884564
You can search in Reddit and in archived threads from time ago that Ruw (ZUN's lawyer) was making some petty statements in Twitter while some OST from Touhou 19 and 18 was being taken down and reuploaded officially into YouTube Music.

>>49884543
Yeah it’s almost like people don’t want to look for trouble for violating rule

>>49884564
Well apparently reuploading OST in full does not count as “creative”, ZUN encourage making remixes of them, not reupload
And it’s not even a recent thing, it’s been a rule since 10 years ago, so everyone just…have no argument against it, since they didn’t read

>>49884564
>used creatively
hmm

>>49884602
So... where are the (((creative))) works of the new songs?

>>49884372
>people shat on SA's OST or girls
I really REALLY doubt that

>>49884652
there was no shortage of people thinking okuu looked fucking ridiculous

S Tier: Ariya's Theme, Nareko's Theme, Stage 1 Theme, Stage 2 Theme, Stage 3 Theme
A Tier: Ubame's Theme, Toyohime's Theme, Stage 4 Theme
B Tier: Ex Stage Theme, Yuiman's Theme
C Tier: Chimi's Theme, Nina's Theme, Stage 5 Theme
D Tier: Stage 6 Theme

The stage themes from stage 4 onwards were sadly lackluster despite being so strong in the first half of the game.

>>49884675
Ooku does look retarded but that's not really shitting on the game as a whole

The game can't be bad because it introduce them to me

>>49884675
>>49884694
>design
We're talking about the music here.

>>49884702
Who said I was answering you?

least obvious bait thread in jaypee history

>>49884268 (OP)
I think it sounds pretty decent and consistent in quality(as opposed to how 19 had two good themes + main menu) overall but I don't like the particular style he used, all these low synths/piano/strings sound somber and sad. It sounds pleasant to listen to in headphones outside of the game. I'm thinking maybe Zun doesn't really want to do boss themes and wants to do BGMs instead?
My favorites are stage 3, 6, stage 6 boss and extra stage themes.

>>49884304
>I played through the game 4 times already and I can't even mentally replay any of the stage and boss songs in my head.
You're mentally deficient.

>>49885501
nah, songs bad

>>49884268 (OP)
Not really, it's still good, but it's rather less energetic this time due to the more somber backstory of the second half's bosses. You'll understand once people start making emotional vocal arranges.
Also you can't even say ZUN was sad because Nina's theme is as much of a clown as she is.

>>49884268 (OP)
Stage 4 and Stage 4 boss theme are kino, final boss theme has grown on me a lot and I like the extra stage songs but wish the boss song was a little more interesting (It felt like it needed something gimicky like the tikatikatika that sounds like insecty in Momoyo's theme)

>>49886132
Lmao take your meds. Hardly anyone is going to bother arranging these rubbish songs. They're just not arrangement material.

>>49886144
If you say so.

Anon you're better than this

>>49884268 (OP)
The music is catchy, it's just not memorable outside of a few songs, one of which (Watatsuki theme) needed an older motif to help carry it. I think part of the issue is probably just overexposure to ZUN's style making it feel a bit generic. 13-15 and 17 got around this by having very strong genre theming but 18 on seems to have dropped this.

>>49884304
Obviously it got worse after 15 because 15 was ZUN's musical magnum opus. 16 was a bit weaker but 17 was also filled with absolute bangers including the most ambitious final boss theme to date.

>>49884349
People have been saying "Touhou is declining" since StB, and the whole idea even became a meme as early as DDC with "Touhou is reclining" images getting spammed across /jp/.

>>49886188
I'd say his music peaked at 11, held firm up to 15, then just fell from grace afterwards.

>>49886352
Not at all actually.

>>49886352
I would agree that it's less inspired and consistent but my favorite tracks are all from post UFO era

>>49886140
It's is like the music is refusing to change, that's why, it's in standstill in essence

I like how the extra songs are lively and quite cute after the rather dark and sad tone of the base game's music.

>>49887833
I don't know exactly how to describe it, but FW's extra stage feels like the most "extra stage" theme ZUN has written in a while. Something about it feels distinctly retro, like it was originally written for some long forgotten unreleased classic Windows era title.

Only Nareko's stage and boss music is good.
Everything else is forgettable at best and outright boring at worst.

>>49888358
shit taste

kuso thread

The paino-violin-guitar combo pull off a tasty sense of mystery and somberness. The bridges in stage 5 are a prime example of this imo. This wouldn't have been the case with the previous approach of electric drums and trumpets everywhere. The percussion is a bit barebones though as it lacks hihats and cymbals.
>>49887894
Hey, I felt similarly, it's like Kirby or SNES game music to me, specially that part with the repeating piano motif with flutes layered on top.

Dogshit thread. OST is good this time around.
I can't get Ariya's theme out of my head.

>>49884268 (OP)
I agree. This was the worst one yet. I'm not a modern 2hu hater. UM was mediocre at first, but really grew on me. And UDoALG was strong even on first listen.
With FW, I've listened three times so far and only the first half sounds good to me. The final and extra boss themes were both lackluster.

>>49890858
Agree with this, the only good one so far is Stage 4 and Yuiman theme, and also Nareko
Also I am glad this shitty lineup of OST make people awakened to the fact that UM OST wasn't bad at all

>>49884349
Ok but genuinely curious, what do you think happened after 15 that caused the decline? Old age? External factors?

The fact is, ZUN is hitting 50 soon, he will never get that spark back, UM was his last hurrah. If you are still following Touhou for the OST at this point then I am sorry you will never get that back.
The only reason I am still here is because I am still interests in his settings and Gensokyo

>>49884304
ZUN was never going to make a comeback 30 years into the series anyway, he is senile now
It happened to the best of us, most musician and author just fall apart when they get old, Touhou was good when ZUN was still a young man in his 20s trying shit out, he lost that ability the older he got

I haven't even listened to the OST yet since I already know I'll be disappointed by it

>>49890969
Don't, I did and it actively ruined the character associated with it for me
It is so bad that I realize we had it good with UDoALG

You know what the kicker? It will only get worse with each subsequent game from now on, I hope that make you feel good about this game
And no, I do not believe for a second that ZUN will ever stop doing Touhou, not like he have anything else to do

>10 years ago we got LoLK
>Fast forward to now we got this travesty of an OST lineup
Genuinely what went wrong? This whole game feel like a spit in the face because it is the 20th game, and also released on 30th anniversary
You would have thought that someone would tell ZUN to lock the fuck in for this occasion but no

Her theme is fucking garbage, Junko could never

Now we wait for 2-3 more years for the next game to bury this one forever

I'm noticing how, in this thread, the anons who say they liked at least some of the songs have clear reasons they give, while those that didn't like anything about it don't actually have any criticism and are just saying it's bad.

>>49891112
Here theme is really really WEIRD, it's not entirely BAD, but it's like this mess of great buildup to...nothing. Like if you just listened to the first 5 second you would expect banger, but then it dropped flat, the whole theme is a collection of this
It have no clear tempo or whatsoever, it's like ZUN just dump whatever the fuck melodies he got in his head atm into it. Even compare to stage 4 theme, it is shit, Yuiman theme mogged her hard

APOLOGIZE, APOLOGIZE RIGHT FUCKING NOW
IT TOOK THIS SHIT GAME TO MAKE YOU FAG REALIZE THAT HER GAME WAS GOOD ALL ALONG

>>49891159
The grand sounding piano intro going into the kind of of weird dissonant synth-y sound is a shame. It's odd because the main melody is actually really good (and sounds nice in the end credits), but the instruments let it down in. It's something I want to hear with full ZUNpets blaring.

>>49891220
The theme itself had a good premise until around 1:20 where that god forsaken weird guitar sound he been experimenting in this game came in
In fact I can attribute the shittiness of this game OST to ZUN trying out a bunch of instruments he clearly doesn’t know how or when to use. It’s experimental (in a bad way)
Let’s hope he actually learn something from this and use it more appropriately next time. Otherwise I think it’s really time he let someone make music for him

>>49884374
I did not like UN Owen Was Her for the longest time. I do now, but it took a long while for it to grow on me. And that's one of, if not the most talked about ZUN tracks ever.

>>49891139
Because those people are insincere. They are likely just buttblasted about the AI backgrounds so they spam about how "bad" the game is. Call it mid? Ok. Literally the worst 2hu game ever? Sorry, you're full of shit.

>>49891112
I really like her theme
Had this quiet rage feel to it for me

Ariya's theme is excellent.. The part from 1:42 to 3:13 (so the end until the loop starts again) mogs several stage 6 boss themes.

>>49891384
>>49891428
Maybe I’ll come around to it. Several character themes have had historically had a shitty initial reception whicg improved over time.
I just feel the track repeatedly builds up energy and does nothing with it leading to it sounding like a like a messy collection of unconnected discordant strings of music. No music expert at all just how it sounds to me. Wish I could like it

>>49884268 (OP)
It's actually over...........

>Old good new bad thread
>Again
Why does this happen with every franchise I follow, am I cursed?

This is the first Touhou game in a while that I replayed just to hear the music again.
Yuiman's theme is probably my favorite. I was ready to hate it because I didn't really like her design and its intro sounded strange, but after listening to it I instantly liked it. It does an interesting thing where the piano lags behind the melody's rhythm to build up tension, and I think it works very well.
Ariya's theme initially sounded really weird, but after listening for it a bit, I found myself humming it at random. I think it utilizes the electric guitar especially well, for accompaniment rather than as a main instrument, just like Sanae's theme.
The stage 5 themes are interesting. I didn't really like them in particular, but it's remarkable how well they manage to emulate LoLK. This makes it fit very well with the stage's gameplay, which elevates both.
If I had to pick one I liked the least, it would be the stage 3 theme. It wasn't awful, but I don't think it fits with Touhou's aesthetics and I get a bit of whiplash every time I hear it in game. If I heard it outside the game, I don't think I could identify it as a Touhou theme, which I think I could with the others.
I've heard a few people call the OST sad. It is certainly dark, but to me, most of the especially dark and moody parts sounded more mysterious than pessimistic.
I wish the instruments used and the ratio in which they were used was more consistent.

>>49884555
A girlfriend isn't the same. You can always leave her and get out of the situation.
Even with a wife you can still leave, divorce rape notwithstanding.
Once you have a kid there's no going back. If you were a artist your #1 priority is no longer being an artist it's being a parent, art now comes second.
It's like tattooing yourself. And like a tattoo it's a messy business to undo your decision and you never really get it off you.

Just last week or so ZUN said on stream that making these game have become something that “he finally get over with”, the old age have caught up to him, just putting out a game every 2 years is unironically a taxing business for him now
You can feel it in the game, don’t lie to yourself. I appreciate that he wanted to keep giving the fanbase something, but this ain’t it

>>49891786
you give away your position on the matter the moment you say 'don't lie to yourself'
at this point no matter how I reply, unless I call the game shit you can claim that I am in fact lying to myself
also that's not really what he said, he said that as he gets older, he gets tired more easily and can't push and push the way he used to when he was younger, not that making games is taxing or that he's uninterested anymore.

>>49891383
>Literally the worst 2hu game ever?
That's 13.5. 19 if you're only counting mainline.

>>49891581
I can only say that the first 1:20 is just the song introducing you to the main melodies of the song, and the "real song" starts afterwards. Afterwards it continues the same but adds more depth to each section. The more ominous, creepy melody that starts the song at 0:11, returns at 1:20 adds a layer of piano that intensifies the ominous feeling. Afterwards we go into the more upbeat, energetic section of 0:34 which returns in 1:42, but now it starts immediately with the more fast tempo drums and the guitar is much livelier and it plays from a higher note. Afterwards we go the actual buildup and the "main melody" of the song, which you can hear in the piano section from the start of the song, which is also repeated in 0:57 with different instrumentation, and we are back at it in 2:06, but this time the solemn piano portion is played in full and the instrumentation used during 0:57 for the same melody comes back at 2:27 as the song builds up to the finale of 2:50 which then kind of takes its own spin on the main melody with a flurry of different instruments doing their own thing with their own focus.

It can definitely feel disjointed as there are different sections that focus on different instruments and they deliver different kinds of vibes, feelings and emotions, but I wouldn't say it builds up and does nothing. Though, I do think I'd like to hear this same song with MoF or WBaWC sound instead, because it can definitely feel like it lacks the punch it needs. But perhaps that's what ZUN wanted all along.

>>49884268 (OP)
>>49886188
>>49886352
Clearly he's going for a different feel like how space-y LoLK was and how dark/moody WBaWC was (relatively speaking).
The most egregious things I noticed about this game is how there are no ZUNpets and a lot more piano instead.
I only liked Nareko and Yuiman's themes honestly. It will take a long time for the rest of the OST to grow on me.

>>49891199
AIEEEEE CHIMATA-SAMA I KNEEL DON'T RETURN ME INTO NOTHING PLEASE

The samefagging is strong in this thread...

>>49884358
>With that said, I don't really enjoy the drum sample he is overusing starting from Nareko's theme spanning all the way to the extra stage. I enjoyed the electronic vibes and drums of previous modern games more.

I like the new drums quite a bit, especially compared to the crap he was using around 16-18, but the mixing is driving me insane.
They sound compressed as fuck and I swear there isn't a single track where the bass drums aren't clipping hard.

Yuuma and Keiki's themes are good enough thar I forgive Zun for all of the mediocre songs from 16.
Also Toyohime's theme is good even if it's a remix (it has a completely different feel). Pyramid girl's theme was nice as well.

Damn I can't believe there could be a worse stage 6 boss theme than Miko's.

>>49892372
Thanks for letting me know you have shit taste so I don't have to bother with you

>ZUN's music making skills have actually improved over time
>Low IQ retards just want more EoSD/PCB "Catchy" tunes like a bunch of children with no attention span or critical thinking

16 has my favorite mood and style overall, I don't understand all the critique it gets. It also has a best House Set made after it before Kuroneko Lounge ditched it

>>49892523
Who are you quoting?

>>49893354

>worst story
>shit soundtrack except for maybe 2 tracks
>literal who characters
>okina ex


that game always felt extremely flat to me. almost like zun only took half the effort he put into Lolk

>>49893664
Could you write a single sentence without redditspacing, you sped?

>>49893354
First of all, it came after LoLK, which was and still is the biggest incident to hit Gensokyo. Anything coming after it would feel out of place, given that game's sense of finality.
The menu theme would actually be somewhat good if not for the choice of instruments, which makes it sound like a collection of wolf notes. I think it exemplifies the problem with almost every track in that game, ZUN insisted on adding digital noises where they don't fit. This makes most of the tracks tiering to listen to, both in and out of the game, and obscures the otherwise decent or at least workable rhythm and melody.
The art is mixed, Reimu looks great, the best she's ever looked, and Marisa and Aya look decent, but all the other ones look either plainly weird or are actual eyesores.
16 is also, I'd say, the game in which a problem that haunts Touhou to this day first fully manifested, the character designs were too crowded(with the exception of Narumi, who pretty closely follows the design of a Jizo statue), and were starting to seriously stray from the original doll dresses characters from the older games wear. This problem was already starting to appear around SA, but in HSiFS, it became clear for all to see.
And then there's Okina.
Had only one of these factors been present, the game wouldn't have been as disliked, but they were all present.
That being said, the mood was generally pretty consistent and pleasant, until the last stage, where it changes, if only a little. I think the mood of the early stages would have been a better fit for a phantasmagoria game.

>>49893724
why do anons hate Okina?

>>49893664
I know it's all pretty suggestive, but i think besides stage 2 themes, stage 3's regular theme and maybe Okina's regular theme (I find it a bit too noisy, it's good otherwise) all the themes are pretty good.
Highlights to stage 1's light excited summer day feel and stage 4's harsher winter. Double highlight on how it's timed with the enemies appearing (past midboss for stage 1, for the midboss and that part with the slow bullets fairies for stage 4).
And I think Okina's EX theme bears no need to justify why it's good, beyond the starting guitar the chorus is very catchy and memorable.
I also just want to mention Aunn's theme.

>>49893757
it always blows my mind to see people dislike HSiFS stage 3
it's one of the most atmospheric pieces in the game. I'm always left mesmerised by that stage with the music and the cherry blossom visuals.

>>49893735
I can only speak for myself, but I've seen a few anons corroborating these ideas.
Just like the game itself, there are multiple small elements that all come together to bring her down. The biggest of those problems is that she wasn't foreshadowed at all. She came out of nowhere. And fair enough, ZUN isn't good at setups, even though he tries, so that's the case for almost all final bosses, but most of them can afford that because they don't try to reframe everything. Okina's reveal is handled with almost a kind of smugness on the part of the game itself.
Another problem is her lore and the obscurantistic references to mythology in it, which drown any unique characterization. Again, it's the smugness of "look at the 10000 gods you've never heard of that she is vaguely related to." She bites more than she can chew in that sense.
There's also, of course, her sidelining Yukari. They are too similar in may regards, so it's hard for anyone not already interested in her to view her as anything else but an attempt at a reboot.
Her introduction also further complicated the already increasingly mangled metaphysics of Touhou. For that reason, she has become for many people an image of this new direction of making everything pointlessly complicated.
Lastly, it's become a meme to hate her, so many people do so just because they're conformists.

>>49893724
I don't know if you could get wronger with this post if you tried.

>>49893830
I could if I said HSiFS was good.

>>49893354
Seriously. The bgm in the second half of the game is all so good.

>>49893595
No no this /v/irgin's speaking facts, I'm with him

Well don't know about you but here's the songs I liked
- this is cheating, all menu themes are great
- An intense Stage 1 boss theme, not exactly catchy but you can really see ZUN making good use out of his new percussion sample
- It's not particularly outstanding as the nature of stage 2 boss themes are however the intentional Heian Alien callbacks are really cool and I find the whole song nice and relaxing while intense enough to keep my energy up. In other words it's perfect music for studying shit to (honestly the thing about Touhou music is sometimes you ought to be focusing on something else like dodging danmaku and not on the music and then you'll realise how good it is)
- Fantastic song, from the atmosphere to the instrumentation. Also it has Space Jam percussion for some reason
- Nice pseudo egyptian sound to it (though Rigid Paradise is more egyptian sounding), a good boss theme heavy on the strings. The climax near the end is perfect for her last few spells
- Very cool percussion. Also that music sync with the "You were expecting a hot woman? Too bad wonder stone appeared!" midboss. Mwuah
- Cool creepy opening. Piano and strings are nice but imo the good part kicks in after 1:08 besides the cool piano riff the song repeats but with more intense percussion which sounds better than the opening bit. Should be noted from this song onwards ZUN completely stops using ZUNpets
- Great stage theme. Hey you fuckers wanted catchy tunes right, cause this has been stuck in my head since release
- I like hearing the LoLK and Lunatic Blue callbacks in here. It's more relaxing than intense and while its a song I like, its definitely the one I like the least
<"Because I'm Used to Being the Last One Left" ~ Stone Goddess> - that guitar man. Overall it sounds very Hifuu honestly, calm but with a quiet rage feel. Fits the boss and character very well but I can definitely see why people wouldn't like it since the final boss themes are usually intense finales (and considering you're supposed to fight this bitch 16 times to end her Higurashi timeloop, no wonder it doesn't have a finale feel)
though pro-tip if a ZUN song isn't clicking for you right away, try turning up your volume. I did mid-bossfight and that's how I won
- Besides the neat robotic ambient sounds, this is a song that screams depression. Probably the most emotional an ending theme has ever been honestly.
- and by contrast this is incredibly uplifting
cheating once again. You can never go bad with a staff roll theme, but it helps isolate the melody of Stone Goddess showing it's pretty good
- Cheating yet again, extra stage themes are always good. To quote ZUN himself a bit the main story tracks are all quite "heavy" but this is that Touhou pep everyone is here for (... hey maybe that's why people don't like this OST they just don't like how heavy it is) It all comes together, the strings, piano, new percussion and the ZUNtar
- My favourite song in the whole game. Already starting strong with an unorthodox slap bass riff and keeping up that same usual Touhou pep from Fantastic Drift and honestly I could just repeat what I had to say about Fantastic Drift at the end It's got me bouncing in my seat. Oh and the glorious return of the ZUNpet, ZUN starved us of it just to make it hit better here, it's one of those bits in a song you kinda get stuck wanting to replay 3-5 times because its so good and thank goodness ZUN repeats it later. Oh, Nina I can't wait to see you inevitably show up in the next fighting game to have 100 lines of different schizo rants against every character, while a sick rearrange of this plays

Honestly relistening to the Extra stage themes made me realise what people really didn't like was the depressing heaviness of the main story soundtrack. You wanted the pep the whole way through, right?

>>49896891
>>49893354
I feel like the soundtrack of the games that get critized the most have this problem of being just good, decent, or trying to innovate but ending weirdly like the electric guitar in HSiFS. I would say that the biggest problem of the most recent soundtracks are that they are not as iconic, remixable, or at least interesting in lore like the ones from at least LoLK. I mean, there are people who even can tell that Junko's theme had this tragic, rage-filled vibe. And that what makes it so great. I really feel like the most recent soundtracks of 16, 18, 19 and 20 make you feel the same thing.

>>49893735
She insists upon herself.

>>49893806
>>49899888
NTA. But from what I have read (because I have never played TH16, that game is fucking crap) She basically feels like a cheap replacement to Yukari, things that could have done by her or related to her are attritubted to Okina. It would be okay for Yukari to have more people helping her and it would make sense, but the problem is that Okina specifically feels forced, more like replacing Yukari than being her own thing. She started the entire TH16 plot because of a childish demonstration of power, which made the story pretty weak, next is the fact that her theme is forgettable, the game she appears in is forgettable, her maids are forgettable, and in general people just want to see her less, BUT ZUN insist that she is important, so it becomes annoying. I personally never liked her personality, and finally that is a meme to hate her, which also helps people notice that she is legit one of the worst characters in Touhou. Other characters are somewhat forgettable but do not get used more, but this girl keeps coming back. WHY? 'CAUSE SHE KEEPS SMELLING THE SYRUP!!!

>>49900438
>But from what I have read (because I have never played TH16

>>49900438
You should
There is a whole funny scenario, a very long one, in Extra Stage after you beat Okina proper. ZUN did not have to write all that but he fucking did, and it make me realize Okina is really fucking funny

>>49900444
Awww maaaaaan...
This hits straight in the head. I have always hated the 2hus by how they are in canon and thought they are all sickos. But when I see an image like this I think about all those fanworks were the characters are actually just cute girls with flaws and good qualities. I REALLY, REALLY WISH, that there was a Touhou were important characters were represented wholesomely, I do not know if Slice of life is the word. But I really just wish there was an official manga were the girls do things together and solve problems, talk about their days, their routines, so I could just remember they are just characters MAAAAAAAN.

>>49900462
(Text above)
Wait, really? I mean, I always thought she was this smug mf. I love girls with sense of humor.

>>49900497
Yeah, this is just half of it, then Reimu stumbling back because she is lost and asked Okina if that was actually the way out

>>49900462
Nice to see an Okina appreciator. The ending where she shows up in FW made me laugh too.

>>49900554
I always say this, but I feel genuinely sad for characters in media who had potential to be better, interesting, worth the readin/watching and etc and were wasted for poor skills.

I would love to see Okina be useful, interesting, funny, and not feel like a replacement for Yukari. I wish ZUN was a better writer.

>>49900554
"Nareko that's right I made her"
"nah I actually didn't but could you imagine lol"
"Was I behind the incident? I really want to say yeah but nah"

TH20 felt like a half-hearted reluctant job where ZUN just wanted to finish it and get it over with without the love or effort he put into previous games.

>>49900438
>>49900590
Severe autism.
>She started the entire TH16 plot because of a childish demonstration of power
And yet when Remilia and Tenshi do the same you clap.

>>49901043
That's 19
20 just could use some more balancing but it's more or less a complete game and the soundtrack is overall more consistent in quality than 18-19

>>49901664
Comparing 19 to 18 is a massive insult to 18.
I feel very comfortable calling 19 the worst, most phoned in game in among the mainline entries.

>>49901724
It is literally a plain phantasmagoria, but without half the effort or lore of TH09

>>49901142
>And yet when Remilia and Tenshi do the same you clap.
I agree that most people get happy for this, but I always thought that the "demonstration of power" plot is quite boring.

The guitars used in Ariya's theme really bring it down for me

>>49900590
I am pretty sure she is a living meme for Japanese fan, since she play the clown role really well

>>49902332
>It is literally a plain phantasmagoria
19 shares shockingly little with 9 or 3.

>>49903266
I thought "Phantasmagoria" was the genre of the Touhou games that were two screen.

>>49903350
I thought Touhou was a game where you shoot bullets and dodge bullets, so HRtP and EoSD are the same game right?

>>49903396
I thought Touhou Project was a Hentai franchise with a LGTB+ fandom that was obsessed with yuri and an obvious fixation with blonde women.

>>49903468
>I thought Touhou Project was a Hentai franchise
yes
>LGTB+ fandom that was obsessed with yuri
No
>obvious fixation with blonde women.
Hell yeah

>>49904062
>No
I am going to tell you a weird thing I noticed that may be just coincidential but anyway. In my main YouTube account I do not search or watch touhou content at all. In fact I spend a lot of time without entering anything related to it except maybe the collection I have downloaded.

One day I started seeing for curiosity videos like one remix I liked a lot of Teufelslied, then other videos of the like like an edit of the Freikorps.

The next day YouTube recommend me three Touhou videos. And they reappeared when I refreshed the page multiple times. This has not happened to me with anything else.

>>49896891
> - Great stage theme. Hey you fuckers wanted catchy tunes right, cause this has been stuck in my head since release
I'm not alone then.

>>49903350
It's a vs game but what it lacks aside of the phantasmagoria in the title is boss reversal among other things like a gameplay that isn't shit. Or you know being actually fun

I liked UDoALG. I abandoned Touhou after LoLK and stayed away for over a decade but UDoALG was what brought me back here.

It's pretty peak actually. The dialogues are hilarious. The sprites are gorgeous. Hisami's theme is very pretty with it's unusual time signature and Tiny Shangri-La is a joy to listen to. The overlapping plots were great with all the twists and turns. The writing was also unexpectedly deep. I gasped when I saw Ran's backstory, 15+ years after PCB. I became a big fan of the WBaWC cast in particular because there wasn't anything like them in previous games. All past bosses never felt truly evil and even during the religious conflict arc the stakes weren't too high. I found refreshing to see characters like the three matriarchs being genuinely mean and ruthless. I hope ZUN keeps adding more evil women, I like what he cooked there.

>>49884268 (OP)
you faggots have been saying the aame fucking things for the last decade and a half. every new touhou game since ten desires has been shit initially because /jp/ are a bunch of contrarians and need to have discourse on why ZUN isn't as good as he used to be, or project your own slaving negativity onto the man, or whatever else. don't like a fame because it's too easy? here, LoLK. too hard? oh well - the card system sucks too apparently and i can only find things to bitch a moan about because i play touhou ritually every triannual release solely to jump on the hate train. i'd bet that near half of you haven't even played 20 or 19 but still wax on about how unfinished or 'souless' the games are despite 19 being pretty well recieved a few years after the fact

in 6 months you'll all love the characters and start having >=1 thread for each of them in the catalogue at any given time. tl;dr what did you like about the game? maybe hols off on the shitflinging for a little

>>49907258
Leave them be, anon. Every time they're reminded that they're retarded they lash out and claim that you're blind because ZUN has clearly lost his charm or whatever other excuse they can pull out of their collective black hole asshole.
You can't argue with the mentally impaired.

>>49907205
That's cool and all but the gameplay was fucking awful and the characters were imbalanced.
>The writing was also unexpectedly deep.
I refuse to use thcrap because it's made by and for faggots and also I'm tired of the fucking animal mafia families.
I also can't imagine the writing is that great if it gave us Ran in a lead position and a yuri baiting grape bitch.

>>49907258
Is that toad yours?

I love all the shithufags rushing in to defend their game

I lo-love all the *poops himself* shithufags ru-rushing i-in to.. *poops himself again* to de-defend their game..

>>49907258
103gger

>>49907258
I haven't liked any character since TH16

>>49907779
So you need a diapey anon?

Sure — here’s a mock "angry 4chan-style" rant/review about why Touhou 20’s music sucks. I’ll capture the tone, exaggeration, and meme-y frustration you’d typically find in that space:

Anonymous 08/24/25(Fri)19:54:37 No.**

What the actual hell happened to ZUN? Touhou 20 drops and I swear to god the soundtrack sounds like it was composed on a toaster running Windows ME with half the MIDI channels unplugged.

Where are the bangers? Where are the themes that make you want to fistfight gods while crying? Instead we get this limp, wheezy garbage that sounds like the BGM from a 2004 Flash dress-up game. Half the tracks are just the same three-note arpeggios on loop with a trumpet sample that makes my ears bleed. It's like ZUN forgot how to jazz. HOW DO YOU FORGET HOW TO JAZZ?!

I used to get chills when hearing "Nuclear Fusion" or "Emotional Skyscraper." Now I just get secondhand embarrassment. Touhou 20’s music has the emotional weight of a half-eaten 7/11 sandwich.

Don’t even start with “it grows on you” — yeah, fungus grows too, doesn’t mean I want it in my ears. This isn’t quirky or charming anymore, it’s just LAZY.

At this point, fan remixes from YouTube randos sound better than the official OST. ZUN peaked a decade ago and now we’re all stuck pretending his honk-honk clown music is “deeply atmospheric.” Cope harder, waifufags.

remember Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom? yeah, that was the LAST time ZUN actually gave a damn. LoLK had tension, it had bite, it had that chaotic genius where the trumpet screamed at you and you felt like you were actually fighting something cosmic. even if the game was brutal, the music carried the experience. that was peak ZUN. after that it’s been a slow downhill ride into this uncanny valley garbage.

tl;dr Touhou 20 music is trash, I’d rather listen to Windows XP startup noises on loop.

>>49909069
>Cope harder, waifufags.
what is grok's damage?

>>49884268 (OP)
strage 2/4/extra didn't disappoint

>>49907258
>in 6 months you'll all love the characters and start having
ariya is just a worse nue anon, even the granma nue is better design wise

>>49884530
there's one guy who got around with it inserting game sounds only in strage 1
>
the entire OST, not said strage

>>49884514
hey, at least isn't like pokemon mainline's, THAT is the prime example you are making

>>49884514
Fuck are you talking about? Touhou only gained popularity because ZUN made game despite not knowing whatever the fuck he is doing

>>49909782
Honestly the shitflinging I keep seeing is some serious speak for yourself
I love Ariya's design and I think she's a very interesting character considering how big she was in old lore like CiLR and FS
>>49907258
if you really are 103anon like >>49907821 is suggesting. I would like to convince you to come to greener pastures. Nu-/jp/ is quickly becoming /v/ilified

I like these 2, fuck the masses for liking le Egyptian girl

i like touhou i thi k its funn and the music is good !
(i dont like 18.5 very much thoigh... but the music is still good !)

>LOLK LOLK LOLK LOLK
Kek, WBaWC and UM cleared that game OST

>>49909805
That is literally how you meant to get around it lol, I remember ZUN once said he made that rule specifically to encourage people altering his OST instead of posting it whole

Never forget, the truth is that ZUN do not need to improve, because he have a fanbase that is willing to fix anything he does wrong, and call it being “passionate”
Shit music? Someone will remix it
Shit character? Hordes of ZUN-style artist already lining up to improve them
AI background? Already patches to replace them

It’s kind of funny that the only part of this game that ZUN delivered was actually rebalancing the game compare to the demo, he didn’t even bother doing that with UDoALG

I geniunely forgot 19 even happened, I was done with the game after 3 hours, the vanilla netplay being broken didn't help either.

>>49910179
That’s how game release felt after LoLK, a big part of why that is a cutoff point for people it’s because ZUN dropped the yearly schedule after LoLK. For the record, the gap between LoLK and HSiFS was 2 years, during which people genuinely wonder if there will be a next Touhou game
The 2 years gap are way too long, so it is really hard to keep caring about game release, especially when fan content have a faster release schedule

>>49910179
No way you beat all the stories in 3 hours.

>>49910202
He did not, it’s likely that he just got bored
UDoALG have like 12 routes

>>49907205
>The writing was also unexpectedly deep.
Everything in your post is fair except this. Come on dude, the writing is not that deep.
I just did a Hard 1cc run recently after forgetting about the game since launch, so my memory of it is fresh:

- ZUN's art is at its nadir here. He did had to draw 19 different characters after all, so everything is very simplified, but it's sad to see considering he did PoFV without relying on a 2nd artist. Some poses are very wild and new for ZUN though so there's some credit there.
- Story mode plotlines are pretty diverse and funny, can't think of anybody whose story mode was weak besides Reimu, Nazrin, Mamizou, and Tsukasa. Insulting you for losing all lives is very funny and I'm glad ZUN added them like PoFV had.
- The VS mode dialogues are very amusing but there is shamefully only 1 victory quote instead of at least 2.
- Ran's inclusion is a mixed bag. It was a surprise to everybody at first, but when theories of T*by F*x's possible influence arose it quickly turned sour. Also her characterization is forever changed which not everybody enjoys.
- The animal bitches showing up again is fun at first, but after playing 3-4 Story modes it gets very tiring to see them repeatedly. Seeing them interact with each other in their own Story modes was indeed proper kino.
- Newhus are tied to the WBaWC arc which gets wrapped up in this game so you'll never see them again.
- Characters being unbalanced is ridiculous. Chiyari got nerfed HARD since launch, but some characters can still cause runaway EX Attack loops which is insane.

UDoALG is a bit under appreciated but it will be maligned for a long time if not forever especially when compared with other titles.

>>49884315
bold of you to assume the musically illiterate are able to no continue clear normal, yet alone easy

>>49910208
Not him but it's only like 20 minutes per route. You can pretty easily beat the game in under 3 hours.

>>49891139
It's almost as if people saying it's bad follow a bandwagon... wait no hold that thought that can't be

>>49910817
19 characters × 25 minutes each on average assuming no fuckups and counting fast-forwarding dialogue, endings, and credits = 475 minutes which is almost 8 hours.
Even if you say 20 minutes then that's 380 minutes which is 6⅓ hours.
Even more if you say 20 minutes with "12" characters which is 24 minutes meaning 4 hours.

Shut the fuck up.

>>49910817
19 characters × 25 minutes each on average assuming no fuckups and counting fast-forwarding dialogue, endings, and credits = 475 minutes which is almost 8 hours.
Even if you say 20 minutes then that's 380 minutes which is 6⅓ hours.
Even more if you say 20 minutes with "12" characters which is 240 minutes meaning 4 hours.

Shut the fuck up.

Speaking of lots of routes, FW is also pretty crazy with 8 routes that lead to 16 different endings, and 16 unique extra stage scenarios.

>>49910876
I don't speak moon so it's actually no time spent on dialogue endings and credits.
If you're spending 8 hours on that game that's entirely on you.

>>49910528
>but it's sad to see considering he did PoFV without relying on a 2nd artist.
alphes did the endings of that game and I'm pretty sure he helped with the coloring of the portraits too.

>>49911577
Whats the point of playing what's essentially a visual novel with boring copypasted scripted fights and shot options that make no damage if you are not even gonna read it?
The reason people dislike Unfinished Game of All Living Hacks as a game is because its a glorified check list of going through all the marks and never touching it again because the netcode is broken and a better vs game in the form of PoFV with a working netcode exist.

Speaking of PoFV it's wild that ZUN STILL hasn't updated the player sprites since that game, only adding new sprites as needed.

>FW was so bad people unironically praise UDoALG
I always thought Phantasmagoria game is a waste of time, because if ZUN wanted to provide a good multiplayer experience, he will have to work with netcode, connection, or even server, all of which not something he can maintain. Also Vs danmaku game is redundant

>>49912412
Fuck off, ESL.

>>49912368
Does he even remember that game exist? I mean I will be surprised if any game dev remember his work from 20-30 years ago, let alone updating it

>>49911577
Technically impossible, retard.
You did not beat the game.

>>49912226
>I'm pretty sure he helped with the coloring of the portraits too.
Now that you put it that way, the portraits did look a bit different than IN.

>>49912419
I mean in the modern games anon. The player sprites in FW are the same ones that were introduced back in PoFV.

>>49910107
those two are getting tons of art though

>>49915538
It's sad that my favorite nuhu might end up becoming a yuri accessory.

>>49915600
she'll be forgotten in around a week, don't worry
no one ever sticks with the newer girls

>>49915538
>>49915600
Same, I was starting to follow Yuiman but now the yurifags have taken hold of her I can only expect gay shit from now on.

>>49915600
She's pretty shit so I hope she does.

rest in piss