Thread 49893384

Now that we've had a few days to stew on FW, how would you rank the mainline games' soundtracks? https://tiermaker.com/create/touhou-soundtracks-main-games-18607819

Honestly, at first, I found FW's music pretty underwhelming, but after giving it some time and a few more listens, it's actually grown on me a decent bit. It's not as immediately catchy and attention-grabbing as some of ZUN's older work, but there's still plenty to like here, in my opinion, and I'm sure I'll come to like it more once the arranges start coming out.

I guess I'll also mention my 3 favorite tracks from each game while I'm at it.

HRtP: Eternal Shrine Maiden, the Legend of KAGE, Now, Until the Moment You Die

SoEW: Hakurei ~ Eastern Wind, End of Daylight, Himorogi, Burn in Violet

PoDD: Reincarnation, Tabula rasa ~ The Empty Girl, Vanishing Dream ~ Lost Dream

LLS: Bad Apple!!, Alice Maestra, Faint Dream ~ Inanimate Dream

MS: Romantic Children, Alice in Wonderland, Peaceful Romancer

EoSD: A Soul as Red as a Ground Cherry, Shanghai Teahouse ~ Chinese Tea, Scarlet Chamber ~ Eastern Dream...

PCB: Paradise ~ Deep Mountain, The Fantastic Tales from Tono, Bloom Nobly, Ink-Black Cherry Blossom ~ Border of Life

IN: Illusionary Night ~ Ghostly Eyes, Retribution for the Eternal Night ~ Imperishable Night, Cinderella Cage ~ Kagome-Kagome

PoFV: Spring Lane ~ Colorful Path, Higan Retour ~ Riverside View, Eastern Judgement in the Sixtieth Year ~ Fate of Sixty Years

MoF: Faith Is for the Transient People, The Venerable Ancient Battlefield ~ Suwa Foughten Field, Native Faith

SA: Green-Eyed Jealousy, Satori Maiden ~ 3rd eye, Last Remote

UFO: At the Harbor of Spring, Interdimensional Voyage of a Ghostly Passenger Ship, UFO Romance in the Night Sky

TD: Night Sakura of Dead Spirits, Desire Drive, Old Yuanxian

DDC: Bamboo Forest of the Full Moon, Illusionary Joururi, The Shining Needle Castle Sinking in the Air

LoLK: The Rabbit Has Landed, The Mysterious Shrine Maiden Flying Through Space, A World of Nightmares Never Seen Before

HSiFS: Illusionary White Traveler, Crazy Backup Dancers, Secret God Matara ~ Hidden Star in All Seasons

WBaWC: Unlocated Hell, Beast Metropolis, Entrust this World to Idols ~ Idolatrize World

UM: The Long-Awaited Oumagatoki, Where Is That Bustling Marketplace Now ~ Immemorial Marketeers, The Great Fantastic Underground Railway Network

UDoALG: Tiny Shangri-La, The Path to Yomi Where None Turn Back, The Deviants' Unobstructed Light ~ Kingdom of Nothingness

FW: The Maiden Sinking into the Deep Sea of Memory, Because the Last One Left is Used to it ~ Stone Goddess, Fantastic Drift

>>49893475
ah, your average touhou fan

Near perfect: IN(Lunatic princess, kagome kagome, History of the moon)
Fantastic: LLS(Alice maestra, inanimate dream, Ice milk magic) PCB(border of life, Necrofantasia, Charming Domination) MoF(Dark Side of Fate, Candid Friend, The Venerable Ancient Battlefield)
Great SoEW(himorogi burn in purple, forest of touno, hakurei eastern wind) MS (alice in wonderland, grimoire of alice, infinite being) PoFV (Fate of sixty years, Flower land, White flag of Usa shrine) SA(dark blowhole, Walking the streets of former hell, Nuclear fusion) UFO (capitan murasa, rural makai city esoteria, the tiger patterned bishamonten)
good PoDD(lost dream, strawberry crisis, dream war) HRtP (shrine of wind, oriental lesson, distant angel) EoSD (Shanghai Alice of Meiji 17, Septette for a Dead Princess, A Dream More Scarlet than Red )
decent LoLK(The Rabbit Has Landed, September Pumpkin, The Frozen Eternal Capital) DDC (Illusionary Joururi, The Shining Needle Castle Sinking in the Air, Dullahan Under the Willows) TD(Night Sakura of Dead Spirits, Desire Drive, Shoutoku legend)

haven't played those in mediocre.

Somewhat related, which song do you think has the best remixes or is the most remixable?

>>49893384 (OP)
NEAR PERFECT

MoF Best 3: The Primal Scene of Japan the Girl Saw, The Venerable Ancient Battlefield ~ Suwa Foughten Field, Fall of Fall ~ Autumnal Waterfall

MoF Worst 3: Cemetery of Onbashira ~ Grave of Being, The Road of the Misfortune God ~ Dark Road, Dark Side of Fate

UFO Best 3:Emotional Skyscraper ~ Cosmic Mind, Beware the Umbrella Left There Forever, A Tiny, Tiny, Clever Commander

UFO Worst 3: Captain Murasa,The Traditional Old Man and the Stylish Girl,The Sealed Cloud Route

WBaWC Best 3: Entrust this World to Idols ~ Idolatrize World,Tortoise Dragon ~ Fortune and Misfortune, The Lamentations Known Only to Jizo

WBaWC Worst 3: Everlasting Red Spider Lily, The Shining Law of the Strong Eating the Weak, Lost River

FANTASTIC

SA Best 3: Last Remote, Green-Eyed Jealousy, The Earth Spirits' Homecoming

SA Worst 3: Corpse Voyage ~ Be of good cheer!, A Flower-Studded Sake Dish on Mt. Ooe, Walking the Streets of a Former Hell

UM Best 3: Where Is That Bustling Marketplace Now ~ Immemorial Marketeers, Ore from the Age of the Gods, The Long-Awaited Oumagatoki

UM Worst 3: The Cliff Hidden in Deep Green, Banditry Technology, Smoking Dragon

LoLK Best 3: Faraway Voyage of 380,000 Kilometers, Unforgettable, the Nostalgic Greenery, Pure Furies ~ Whereabouts of the Heart

LoLK Worst 3: Eternal Spring Dream, A World of Nightmares Never Seen Before, Reversed Wheel of Fortune

GREAT

HSiFS Best 3: Does the Forbidden Door Lead to This World, or the World Beyond?, The Magic Straw-Hat Jizo, A Star of Hope Rises in the Blue Sky

HSiFS Worst 3: The Colorless Wind on Youkai Mountain, A Pair of Divine Beasts, Into Backdoor

DDC Best 3: Inchlings of the Shining Needle ~ Little Princess, Illusionary Joururi, The Shining Needle Castle Sinking in the Air

DDC Worst 3: Thunderclouds of Magical Power, Magical Storm, Mermaid from the Uncharted Land

GOOD

PCB Best 3: The Doll Maker of București, Doll Judgement ~ The Girl Who Played with People's Shapes, Ghostly Dream ~ Snow or Cherry Petal

PCB Worst 3: Hiroari Shoots a Strange Bird ~ Till When?, Phantom Band ~ Phantom Ensemble, Spiritual Domination

TD Best 3: Night Sakura of Dead Spirits, The Hall of Dreams' Great Mausoleum, Omiwa Legend

TD Worst 3: Youkai Girl at the Gate, Welcome to Youkai Temple, Futatsuiwa from Sado

UDoALG Best 3: The Path to Yomi Where None Turn Back, Tiny Shangri-La, The Oni on the Perpetual Mountain

UDoALG Worst 3: Vampiric Cryptid Chupacabra, Magical Beast Scramble, A Brave and Leisurely Beast

FW Best 3: Because I'm Used to Being the Last One Left ~ Stone Goddess, Might as Well Stake Your Life to Solve the Riddle, Sacred Forest

FW Worst 3: Sacred Precincts of the Pyramid, The Maiden Sinking into the Deep Sea of Memory, There's a Monster in the Woods

DECENT

IN Best 3: Voyage 1969, Love-Colored Master Spark, Eternal Night Vignette ~ Eastern Night

IN Worst 3:
Plain Asia, Reach for the Moon, Immortal Smoke, Extend Ash ~ Person of Hourai

PoFV Best 3: The Mound Where the Flowers Reflect, Poison Body ~ Forsaken Doll, Higan Retour ~ Riverside View

PoFV Worst 3: White Flag of Usa Shrine, Eastern Judgement in the Sixtieth Year ~ Fate of Sixty Years, Oriental Dark Flight

MEDIOCRE

EoSD Best 3: Scarlet Chamber ~ Eastern Dream..., U.N. Owen Was Her?, Shanghai Scarlet Teahouse ~ Chinese Tea

EoSD Worst 3: A Soul as Scarlet as a Ground Cherry, Voile, the Magic Library, The Centennial Festival for Magical Girls

>>49895823
Just out of curiosity what was your first Touhou game?
It was MoF wasn't it?

>>49895823
>WBaWC near perfect
Based, fuck the haters, that game's soundtrack is insanely good, you can tell ZUN truly enjoyed making that game.

>>49896190
My first game was Imperishable Night, I remember picking the Hard difficulty and being btfo by Stage 1. Reisen and Invisible Full Moon quickly became my favorite character and theme.

>>49896197
I'm genuinely flabbergasted whenever people say WBaWC has a bad soundtrack. It's very cohesive throughout and every song feels like it adds to the atmosphere of the stage or the boss. Plus just genuinely having some of his best work.

>>49896197
>>49896217
Unironically one of the most boring, lifeless, generic Touhou OSTs

>>49896435
You can call WBaWC a lot of things, but boring and generic it certainly isn't. Pretty much every track is trying something that hasn't really been done before in the series. How many songs can you think of that sound like Joutounin of Ceramics or Seraphic Chicken?

>>49896451
Yeah, it's trying something and failing miserably.
Just because something's unique doesn't mean it's good. And most of them just sound like modern Touhou anyway.

>>49896461
>boring, generic
>Just because something's unique
pick one

>>49896464
I'm saying that Zun tried to sound unique, but ended up only sounding boring and lifeless.
Keyword tried.
It still sounds like every game after DDC.

>>49896474
I can agree that LoLK and HSiFS do sound pretty similar in places, but the games from 17 onwards all have a pretty distinct sound to them, for better or worse. I wouldn't confuse a WBaWC track with one from UM. The difference is pretty clear if you, y'know, actually listen to them instead of making sweeping generalizations.

>>49896496
LoLK has heavier drums while HSiFS uses the guitar more as a lead and uses the electronic drums used in WBAWC. Without looking at the compositions of the songs themselves it’s pretty easy to tell which song is from what game through the evolution of ZUN’s musical hardware and what instruments he takes a liking to in certain eras.

>>49896496
I have actually listened to them, as I actually play the games, and I can tell you this much, I can't for the love of god remember a single track from the top of my head. This is true for all newer games.
And again I'm not saying that they are exactly the same, but they are similar enough.

>>49896505
Yeah. I did say they sounded similar "in places" but they're definitely still distinct enough. Spinoffs excluded, I don't think there are any two games that actually sound the same.

>>49896533
Think that might just be a you problem because I can remember them just fine. Maybe give them another shot at some point.

>>49896606
I don't know whether or not I will give them another shot, as I don't like returning to the games I've beaten, especially when I didn't have fun while playing them(in part because of the soundtrack).
I guess not everything is for everyone after all.

>>49896474
Are you deaf? Like it or not, I cannot for the life of me think how anyone would think WBaWC sounds anything like DDC.
17 has one of the most unique sounding OSTs in the entire series comparatively, which is why some people don't like it, because it doesn't sound traditional ZUN.

Near Perfect:
IN - Fast arpeggios and pianos, the OST. It's my fetish. Alongside another of the ones on the top, this is the most thematically fitting OST of the entire series, with each track sounding exactly like it should for the character and the stage, especially for the stage 4 protagonist bosses. Very wondrous, space-like stage themes, and some insane, impossible piano pieces. Due to how batshit insane fast some tracks in this game is, also one of the most fun things to watch people make covers of. Like, have you seen people try to cover Maiden's Capriccio or Voyage 1969? It's hilarious, it's so hard to do barely any of them can do it properly.
SA - While the games before all had that classic ZUN flair, 11 I think is really the first time where ZUN flexed his music muscles and really started experimenting with weird ways to compose music, and it worked wonderfully. If the other two in the top is thematic to almost perfection, SA manages to sound unique every step of the way, with each stage and boss. Satori Maiden is imo a better and more original version of a "classical gothic song" than Septette, and I like the latter a lot already. Hartmann's Youkai Girl is one of the first really strange tracks that ZUN's composed in the Windows era, and it's also one of his most popular, for good reason. Generally speaking, SA is quite inspired.
WBaWC - This is one of the other most thematically fitting OSTs in the entire series. It really feels like you're in a setting not quite like anything ever seen in Touhou before. It's hostile, it's bombastic, and it's quite metal, and despite all of that, it's still quite harmonic. Unlocated Hell is probably the best example of what I just mentioned. And of course, this spawned Idolatrize World, in contention of being one of my favorite tracks of all time. There's a reason why that thing managed to blitz through the polls, despite being from a new game. I also give props to Seraphic Chicken, for exactly sounding like a song that fits for a chicken, without using actual chicken sounds.

Fantastic:
PCB - Probably the most "epic" OST in Touhou, especially at the latter half of the game. In that sense, it can be overbearing, almost too loud- but when it hits, it hits really hard. Also has the advantage of being the first Touhou game I've ever 1cc'd, and Reflowering led to one of my most treasured epic gamer moments of all time. Like IN, it's quite piano-heavy, but it also has more ZUNpets in it. While EoSD is the first windows Touhou game, I'd say PCB is the most quintessential "Touhou-sounding" OST out there.
DDC - imo an underrated OST lineup. I would consider DDC one of the catchiest OSTs in the series, and it's one of the OSTs where I can listen to it nonstop without getting sick of it after a long time of listening repeatedly. While some people don't like the instruments used, especially the drums, I personally never minded them much. Has my favorite menu theme of all time, probably.
LoLK - It would've been really easy for ZUN to just copy how he composed IN and call it a day, but it sounds completely different. Almost all of the LoLK tracks sound hectic, it's often chaotic, and then Pure Furies hits, which is a very measured, epic, yet sad, track which was quite the journey to end the main part of game on. Also a shoutout to Pandemonic Planet, the best example of a Caesura in a Touhou track: aka, that sudden pause in the middle of a song, just before the ebin release of tension.

Great:
MoF - This is one of those weird ones where I really like half of the tracks, and half of them I don't really care for much. I'd say MoF is one of the most well-rounded OST in the series, it basically has a track of every kind. It has your fast pianos like Native Faith, it has your rock like Faith is for the Transient People, it has your epics like Suwa Foughten Field, etc. In that sense, it has a very broad appeal.
PoDD - I'll say this right out of the gate, I don't listen to PC-98 music much, so I won't tarry on them for too long. However, PoDD generally has my favorite tracks of the PC-98 era, including Strawberry Crisis and Reincarnation, so I'll put this here.
EoSD - I can't really say much about the EoSD soundtrack that hasn't been said before. Sure, there were Touhou games before this, but EoSD spawned the Touhou brand of "sound" most people are familiar with today. It's special in that way. EoSD I think has the problem of being somewhat "samey" in its soundtrack, but its all saved by the rhythm and composition.

Good:
UM - I'll say this right out of the gate, Chimata's theme just gets stuck in my head. I don't even know why, but it does. UM doesn't have the greatest soundtrack, I'd say it's one of the most "it does it's job" tracks of all time in Touhou when you're actually playing the game (mostly, it has one of the best stage 1 themes, same with Extra stage theme), but it does have a lot of unique tracks that sound actually quite great when you listen to it on its own. Perpetual Snow of Komakusa Blossoms doesn't sound like much of anything in Touhou ever, it's like a song you'd find in a Karaoke, but it's nice to listen to. Fortunate Kitten is a pretty fun, meme-y sounding song. The stage 5 theme and the Megumu's theme right after are actually really great, probably the best in the OST. Lunar Rainbow is also one of the weirder ZUN compositions, it's like the modern version of Makai City Esoteria. And then Immemorial Marketeers just, in random parts of the day, gets randomly put in my head and stays there. There's a ldecent amount of eh tracks in UM though, in particular stuff like Takane's theme (it sounds... too lethargic?) and Misumaru's theme (I never found it to fit this ancient, knowing character). Overall though, I still quite like the OST.
UFO - UFO is kind of like my position on MoF, but instead of just half, I only really like a 3rd of tracks, and the 2/3rds I don't care for that much. Fires of Hokkai is one of my favorite stage tracks of all time, At the time of spring is one of my favorite stage 1 tracks of all time, and Captain Murasa is just a fun song. Most of the tracks though are just, fine. Heian Alien is a good kind of intentional weird, but I'd say ZUN has made better intentional weird before and after this. Stage 3 theme and Ichirin's theme is pretty forgettable. I like Kogasa's theme, but the stage 2 theme is pretty eh. It's just one of those things.
HSiFS - If UM is one of those games where most of the tracks don't get elevated much when you're actually playing the game but I can listen to it well outside of it, then HSiFS is almost the complete opposite. HSiFS has one of the best timings ever when you're actually playing the shmup, things just fit really well and stuff like THAT moment on stage 4 is amazing, but I find myself not listening to the track much. Almost every kind of track found in HSiFS can be found better in most games, but when paired with the game itself, it's like 2 tiers higher. And by almost every track, I mean that Concealed Four Seasons is quite great.

Decent:
PoFV - PoFV tracks are quite weirdly... somber, even for characters that don't fit it. Oriental Dark Flight is a great example. Higan Retour also has that feel, although it's a bit more understandable. Some people really like Eiki's theme, but I've never been that impressed how grand it sounds. Overall, it's just serviceable. It's also a Phantasmagoria game, so it has the nerf that it less original tracks than most games. I will give PoFV this, however: it introduced Wind God's Girl. And Forsaken Doll, to a lesser extent.
TD - TD OST is just what I'd consider to be peak average for a Touhou game. Now, there are some standouts, like the very popular Desire Drive, Rigid Paradise, and the menu theme might be my second favorite menu theme of all time, but my biggest problem with TD is that most of the tracks just kinda feels like its lacking energy. I understand that most of the game basically is set stage on a cemetary so it has an excuse to be a bit more quiet, but the game's story and plot doesn't really portray a more quiet approach to the track imo. Like, a track that's titled "Let's Live in a Lovely Cemetary" I would expect to sound a bit more fun than what is shown.

And the two mainline Windows I haven't played:
UDoALG - It sorta sounds interesting, especially the erhu stuff, but I don't really know what to feel about it yet. However, considering the Phantasmagoria game nerf and what I've listened to so far, I'm guessing this'll just go in the decent territory.
FW - 20 sounds a lot more interesting. It's a piano-heavy soundtrack, very rhythmic. Some songs sound creepy, some songs sound sad, some songs sound sad creepy. It's one of the least bombastic Touhou soundtracks of all time, but that kind of makes it special, and it seems the plot for the game makes sense for it to be that way. From what I've listened to, this'll either go in the good or in the great territory.

>>49897364
>it introduced Wind God's Girl
not to AKSHUALLY you, but the superior, uncut version of Wind God Girl actually comes from the Bohemian Archive in Japanese Red CD, which released a few days before PoFV. The one in the game is the sad, (Short) version that's missing the sick piano solo.

>>49897407
Ah right, I forgot about that. That's some points deducted for PoFV then, since Wind God Girl is one of my favorite tracks pre-11. Not like there's points to begin with, so just imagine a -1 in your head.

>>49897359
>some insane, impossible piano pieces. Like, have you seen people try to cover Maiden's Capriccio or Voyage 1969? It's hilarious, it's so hard to do barely any of them can do it properly.
One of the reasons I have soured on IN's ost and why I do not enjoy Maiden's Capriccio that much. I feel like too much of Imperishable Night is nonsense manic piano without actually sounding like a beautiful melody that meshes well with the rest of the track. It's just there because of the flex. Voyage 1969 though makes it work wonderfully, because the "impossible piano" IS the song, and it is wonderfully composed. I think Yuiman's theme is actually a good example of how to make a more intense piano section work as part of a song.

>I also give props to Seraphic Chicken, for exactly sounding like a song that fits for a chicken, without using actual chicken sounds.
Actually, I feel like all the animal-themed girls introduced in the game a very fitting theme that fits the animal they represent. Jelly Stone is very bubbly, youthful and kind of acquatic and jellyfishy. Urumi's theme sounds like a cow that drowns children, the synths used sound like it could be mooing to boot. Seraphic Chicken sounds like a chicken, like you said, and speaking of, it's probably one of the most hectic, layered and intense songs ZUN has produced, especially during the climax. Yachie's theme sounds like a tortoise-dragon, kind of downtempo with the ferocity of a dragon. Saki's theme has very clear beats that reference a horse galloping. It's very clever overall!

>t can be overbearing, almost too loud- but when it hits, it hits really hard.
Yup, feel that. I feel like Stage 3 in it's entirety is PCB at its best. It's not too overbearing and loud, the melodies are infectious, mysterious and foreboding. It's just intense enough without going way too ham, there's a charm in its subtlety. Border Of Life is an amazing song but goddamn if the ZUNpets aren't distracting. They feel good in the moment when playing the game but outside of it, they just hurt my ears. Same with Necrofantasia. Also Till When is one of the worst songs ZUN has ever produced, it sounds disgusting, but that's probably just me.

>DDC - imo an underrated OST lineup.
It has some all time highs but I think it's fairly rated as quite mediocre in its entirety. I still can't for the life of me remember how Stage 4 or EX Stage themes sound. My main issues beyond just those two tracks being unmemorable is that the boss themes for the first three bosses feel.. kind of on the nose in being boss themes? When I was playing through DDC demo for the first time I remember thinking "wow ZUN is really trying to make everything sound like U.N. Owen and Heian Alien sort of" even though that probably doesn't make sense. The songs go a bit too hard and are a bit too intense considering what we are fighting, though that could also be a charm point. In general there's a lack of coherent atmosphere, but I think the worst offender is probably the worst stage 1 in terms of music. The songs aren't "bad" but stage 1 has become important in setting the stage and the overall vibe of the game, and I think DDC has a pretty lackluster start to the journey. With that said Illusionary Joururi and Little Princess are top 20, perhaps top 10 boss themes for me, genuine masterpieces.

>Has my favorite menu theme of all time, probably.
That's wild when there are so many amazing ones... and DDC is not one of them lmao. But tastes are different ofc.

>I'd say MoF is one of the most well-rounded OST in the series.
What makes MoF's soundtrack a masterpiece (to me) is just how integral and fitting it is for the overall game, the characters, the stages, even the danmaku. In terms of storytelling through instrumental music in a video game, MoF is top notch in achieving everything it wants to and elevating the experience to something that's not just a bullet hell game, but an experience. It is also somewhat unique in that it's probably the most joyous and happy soundtrack overall, and it doesn't really take itself too seriously. Native Faith is sort of silly, and Candid Friend is to this day a very unique boss theme. Then there's the absolutely 1-2-3-punch of stage 3, stage 4 and stage 5 themes being some of the most stunning stage themes that are just unmatched in terms of delivering an amazing, fitting autumn-y atmosphere. Even if many songs aren't my personal favorites of all time, the overall experience of the soundtrack is superb.

>>49897364
>Perpetual Snow of Komakusa Blossoms doesn't sound like much of anything in Touhou ever.
I don't think it sounds that odd, it's reminiscent of me to the more cutesy early stage themes from earlier touhou games like Deep Mountain, Chinese Tea or The Gensokyo The Gods Loved, which is why I find it weird that it didn't really end up becoming a fan favorite.

>eh tracks.. Misumaru's theme..
How dare you, that's one of the best in the entire soundtrack. It isn't really complex but when the ZUNpets come out especially during the "main melody" it's so hype and I think it's quite fitting. Takane's theme is definitely pretty whatever though.

> Almost every kind of track found in HSiFS can be found better in most games, but when paired with the game itself, it's like 2 tiers higher.
I can kind of agree with that. There's definitely a lot of songs that are elevated by the stage graphics, the danmaku and the overall fights. I feel like it has one of the strongest stage 1s in the entire game series though in terms of music and vibe though. And stage 4 overall is very reminiscent of MoF overall, which is great.

>Some people really like Eiki's theme, but I've never been that impressed how grand it sounds.
Completely agree. For how much of a big shot Eiki is, I don't think her theme is all that. I've grown to enjoy it to an extent, but I think there are just better new songs introduced that are just waaay better.

>TD - the menu theme might be my second favorite menu theme of all time
Bruh your opinions on menu themes have been the most wild and out of pocket in terms of all the opinions you've shared! I can't say I agree with this though TD title screen is pretty alright.

>"Let's Live in a Lovely Cemetary" I would expect to sound a bit more fun than what is shown.
This is a bit weird too because I find the song to be quite fun, like happily hopping and strolling around a cemetery definitely comes through the overall song for me.

>but my biggest problem with TD is that most of the tracks just kinda feels like its lacking energy
This can be a good thing or a bad thing. Night Sakura of Dead Spirits is the greatest stage 1 theme in the entire series and it's partially because it's more slow and unassuming, just ZUN flexing his melodical prowess. The Hall of Dreams' Great Mausoleum has some amazing vibes as well that can be contributed to the soundtrack being more laidback, not to mention Desire Drive. But then there are moments where you wish the soundtrack went a bit harder and was more ambitious and then it definitely falls flat. I think stage 2 overall is just... MEH personified in terms of ZUN music, I think just overall. In general I think TD's soundtrack is fairly judged as being somewhat plain and inconsistent in terms of quality.

>>49897690
>I still can't for the life of me remember how Stage 4 or EX Stage themes sound
DDC extra stage is my favorite extra stage theme along with Loose Rain

>>49897899
>DDC extra stage is my favorite extra stage theme
Amazing, never thought I'd ever hear anyone say those words! Though now that I'm listening to it and refreshing my memory, it's not THAT BAD afterall. Can't say I enjoy it that much though.

>>49897690
>I think Yuiman's theme is actually a good example of how to make a more intense piano section work as part of a song.

IN and FW are both very heavy on piano, but are fundamentally very different on how they're composed.
FW is generally a lot slower, for one, but that's obvious. It's meant to be sadder, but it's also meant to be creepier and more mysterious. Touhou 20 tracks are quite a bit more dissonant, one of the most dissonant lineups in Touhou I find. It's also a decent bit more unpredictable than INs, with weird tempos and harmony, which all adds to those feelings.
Touhou 8 is more of a classical musical rendition of the concept of space, vast and ever expanding. Piano that goes faster and keeps on, putting the elegance of the night space in center stage.
Now, Maiden's Capriccio I find isn't an example of this. Instead, it's a rendition of Reimu as a character. It's upbeat and challenging, but it's done in such a way where its complicated piano is done in a very natural way, as if doing it wasn't even a challenge. This is done by the complicated piano often just being in the background of the main rhythm. It's not done as if the theme is boasting, it's done as if the impossible is just natural, which is very Reimu.
>The songs go a bit too hard and are a bit too intense considering what we are fighting
That's sort of the point. DDC is all about the little guy fighting the bigger guy. All of the people you fight in DDC are weaker than the protagonists by a significant margin, moreso than any other than Touhou. These aren't the themes of the protagonist fighting the bosses, these are themes of the bosses fighting you.
>That's wild when there are so many amazing ones... and DDC is not one of them lmao.
I'm pretty sure DDC's main menu theme (and TD's) being considered one of the best is a basic bitch opinion. TD's mainly because of the first like 30 seconds.
>>49897758
>I don't think it sounds that odd, it's reminiscent of me to the more cutesy early stage themes from earlier
In progression, sure, somewhat. Not in how it's written down. A lot of people say it's weird that there's a Touhou song in major scale, and that should already give you that some people think it's a strange song (it's a common comment that it sounds like a song you'd find in an idol anime), but it's not even in major scale. It's in minor scale that's meant to sound like major, which is just peak ZUN-ism
>This is a bit weird too because I find the song to be quite fun, like happily hopping and strolling around a cemetery
It sounds a bit whimsical, no doubt, but it's a very low key kind of whimsical. It never really peaks. It might just be because of the instruments used.

>>49900374
>Instead, it's a rendition of Reimu as a character.
That's a very generous read on the theme for sure. Whether that is true or not, and hey it might be, I still do not enjoy Imperishable Night's tendency to include crazy piano sections that feel too overwhelming or distracting, unless the whole song is piano-driven like Voyage. ZUN has included intense piano sections and elements in his song much more naturally and successfully, Demystify Feast and Lunar Rainbow come to mind.

>That's sort of the point. DDC is all about the little guy fighting the bigger guy.
I definitely forgot what DDC was about but overall I just still think they are too on the nose of being like THIS IS AN EPIC TOUHOU BOSS THEME AAAHH with zero subtlety or unique charm. I don't dislike them but they are overbearing and don't offer much variety in terms of boss theme music.

>I'm pretty sure DDC's main menu theme (and TD's) being considered one of the best is a basic bitch opinion.
Are they? Honestly people don't really talk about main menu themes so it's hard to say. I feel like overall they are very much ignored parts of the soundtrack, just like ending and staff scroll themes. I like LoLK and HSiFS main menu themes because they sound like stage 6 themes, they become ridiculously powerful for being just main menu themes. MoF menu theme is insanely atmospheric and perfect for the game, especially the portion of the songs where you can hear rain and individual rain droplets falling to a puddle. SA is another great one that really sets the appropriate mood because how it transitions into the stage 1 atmosphere and music, it's pretty genius. PCB menu theme probably has the best overall melody though, so if I wanted to hear actual remixes, I would want to hear remixes of the PCB menu theme. IN menu theme almost starts sounding like a breakbeat song which is kind of cool. Anyway the point is, tons of good menu themes overall!

>It sounds a bit whimsical, no doubt, but it's a very low key kind of whimsical. It never really peaks.
Guess I don't mind since I often prefer ZUN's lowkey songs. Not that I love the song, it's just good, I just don't have any negative feelings about it.

>>49897929
Not that anon but while I might not call it my favourite extra stage theme (extra stage themes are my favourite type of music ZUN composes overall), DDC's is incredibly good.

>>49900456
I'm probably a bit too harsh on DDC because I was of the mind that I like extra stage themes overall.. but honestly I think extra stage themes in general aren't my favorite. But I'd say DDC's extra stage theme is kind of forgettable regardless. Interesting to see the love for it though!

>>49895823
>PCB Worst 3: Hiroari Shoots a Strange Bird ~ Till When?, Phantom Band ~ Phantom Ensemble, Spiritual Domination

These are some of the better ones in PCB though

>>49902505
Till When is absolutely awful, one of ZUNs worst songs. Phantom Ensemble is completely lackluster after the stage theme and not only that, it's lackluster for bosses that are themed heavily around music. Spiritual Domination is a completely whatever song.

>>49903831
NTA, but you're actually retarded. Spiritual domination is literally the best extra stage theme.

>>49903849
Last Remote dunks on Spiritual Domination lmfao. Stop being a silly goose!

>>49903859
Last Remote is decent, but nowhere near Spiritual domination.

>>49897690
>but I think the worst offender is probably the worst stage 1 in terms of music.
The only bad thing about DDC's stage 1 theme is how reminiscent it is of Bad Apple. It's a great track by itself but feeling like a retread hurts it a bit.

>>49904007
I just don't think it starts your adventure on the right foot. It's not breezy, it's not energetic, it's not atmospheric, it doesn't instill any sense of wonder or excitement. It's just kinda there, kind of slow and heavy and doesn't really make you pumped to see what the game has to offer. But I put a lot of importance on the stage 1 theme in general as they are some of my favorite themes overall, so I'm definitely hypercritical on the ones that don't pull their weight.

>>49904333
I think that's fine for DDC in particular since it's a relatively low-stakes game with a cast consisting of a bunch of goofy goobers in locations we've mostly been to before outside of the Shining Needle Castle. I do get where you're coming from and even agree with you to an extent but to me it's a nice little break from religious wars and the calm before the LoLK storm.

>>49904410
>but to me it's a nice little break from religious wars and the calm before the LoLK storm.
Honestly yeah, I appreciate this sentiment and definitely see where you are coming from. Though I think the issue with Mist Lake is that it could've leaned on being a laidback song even moreso, as there are plenty of stage 1 songs that offer a similar experience like Deep Mountain (an all time favorite of touhou fans I'd say) and Night Sakura of Dead Spirits (my personal favorite stage 1 theme).

>>49903831
Till When and Phantom Ensemble are both great what are you talking about

>>49904410
I wholeheartly think that DDC was a good game. I liked both Seija's and Shynmounmaru's theme. The designs were a bit weird and have that vibe of being low quality at first but at the same time they work. I specially like a lot the Sekibanki, Wakasagi, and Kagerou trio. Raiko is a cool character, the UNIQUE gripe I have is that the Tsukumos are the MOST WORTHLESS characters in this franchise.

>>49904790
I can't fathom people liking Till When. It's just unpleasant and has a very ugly melody, and the instruments used sound like nails on a chalkboard. It might sound better in remixes, but I'm basing my opinions on how good the originals are by themselves, and Till When is extremely hard to listen to. It's no wonder they used Ancient Temple (an actually good song) as Youmu's theme song on PoFV, Till When is just garbage.

>>49900446
>That's a very generous read on the theme for sure.
It's not really that generous, you can listen to other piano heavy themes in the series as an example and contrast it with Maiden's Capriccio. Not very many are composed like Maiden's Capriccio. I don't think many 2hu songs with fast piano all over the track has it in the background like Maiden's Capriccio, and I can't think off the top of my head where the simpler piano is in the foreground and the complicated piano is the accompaniment. Usually it's the opposite for most music.
Just from the same game, Voyage 1969, the complicated piano is the main rhythm. Native faith has piano all around it, and it's the main rhythm. Yuiman's theme Reminscence of the hunt is the same thing, piano is the main rhythm.
There are ones with shorter fast piano sections that have it in the background (arguably) like Charming Domination, but not many where it's all over the song. Demystify feast has two piano sections overlapping like Maiden's Capriccio, but the background piano is pretty simplistic.
>>49895201
Any touhou song in constant common time (4/4) without tempo changes, with the BPM usually at 120 bpm. I can't be arsed right now to give an example, but that's true for every song.
Hardest would be songs like Makai City Esoteria where it's plain weird with lots of time sig changes, or even songs like Hartmann's Youkai Girl where it's hard to innovate when arranging because doing so could make it not sound like the song you're arranging (also mostly because of the 7/8 time signature)

>>49904861
>It's bad because I said so

>>49904861
The SWR version of Till When fixes everything about it for me. Very elegant melody when done right.

>>49908734
It was done right in the original as well.

>>49908740
I like both versions of it but I do understand why people may not like the instruments used. The organ is very... harsh.

>>49908779
I actually like it because of the organ, lol.

>>49908795
It’s not a bad song but it is weaker than most of the OST. There’s the intro and the chorus which both have a determined and serious sound, but that’s it. Compare it to Luna Dial from the previous game, I feel there’s a lot of progression in mood. The swift and sudden intro, mysterious middle part with the choir and sharp climax make it feel like a journey; to me, Till When starts with a measured readying and stern chorus but never goes further.

>>49915509
I understand where you're coming from, but I'd have to disagree. When I listen to both song, outside of the game, side-by-side, I feel that in the terms of progression in both songs are similar.
The difference is that the main part of till when is longer, whereas luna dial is shorter because it's the parts are shorter.
A loop of till when lasts around 1:45, whereas luna dial lasts only around 1:15.
But also, another thing that you have to understand is that something like luna dial wouldn't really work in PCB, especially not for Youmu.

Need to listen to the latest games more

>>49905044
Oh come on man they went out of their way to elaborate on why they think its bad.

>>49893384 (OP)
Bottom is mostly there because the stage themes are super forgettable with like 2 or 3 exceptions, boss themes are good/decent.

>>49904817
>Tsukumos are the MOST WORTHLESS characters in this franchise.
Tsukumos exist as a callback to the Prismrivers which are already kind of pointless and forgettable characters in the "grand scheme" of things to begin with so there's no surprise there.
Still pretty harsh thing to say about them when they exist as direct consequences of DDC's incident and are otherwise cute characters.

>>49904817
They're cool, you're just retarded.

>>49897690
>Voyage 1969 though makes it work wonderfully, because the "impossible piano" IS the song, and it is wonderfully composed
Hard agree.
I love using Droidsound with a GENH* archive of the OST which includes the loop markers in the metadata, so I can play it indefinitely like in game.

* Search for touhou on https://vgm.hcs64.com/

>>49919124
Repeating variations of "it's bad" multiple times without adding anything more substantial is not really elaboration

>>49919849
Oh wait you're replying to >>49904861 not >>49915509 . My bad.

>>49919432
They could’ve been cool if paired with Raiko but she fucked off to be with the original musical siblings.

>>49919849
Till When has no specific mood. It's not beautiful at all, and it lacks in power or any sort of intimidation. The soundtrack up to this point had been pretty great at setting the mood, while Till When is kind of all over the place and hard to understand or decipher in terms of what kind of atmosphere it's supposed to set. There's no buildup to anything, and once you've heard the first 30 seconds of the song, that's really enough. The "main melody" I suppose that comes after the "intro" is just nothing special, and it kind of clashes with the overall pretty good intro. The horrid thing also is that the song now repeats the same damn melody until the intro portion starts once more. It's almost an entire minute of the same melody that isn't particularly strong. Where is the complexity, where is... anything, really? Like I said, no beauty, no elegance, no power, no intensity, no nothing. Just a void of anything that makes other ZUN music good.

Not only that, but the organ used in the song is... grating. It almost sounds like a baby whining and crying, it's that unpleasant.

>>49925270
>Till When has no specific mood
The mood is that it's supposed to be intense and intimidating

>It's not beautiful at all
Subjective and vague

>it lacks in power or any sort of intimidation.
False

>Till When is kind of all over the place
It literally settles for a main intense melody after the intro

>hard to understand or decipher in terms of what kind of atmosphere it's supposed to set
You're fighting against basically the culprit of the incident. It's supposed to be intense and intimidating and it's pretty clear that it does that.

>There's no buildup to anything
The intro is the buildup

>The "main melody" I suppose that comes after the "intro" is just nothing special, and it kind of clashes with the overall pretty good intro.
Subjective

>The horrid thing also is that the song now repeats the same damn melody until the intro portion starts once more.
Video game music in general commonly does that

>It's almost an entire minute of the same melody that isn't particularly strong
Which also varies overtime with differing background/secondary instruments and such. It's also pretty strong and is pretty much the kind of battle theme I want to hear when fighting a stage 5 boss that doesn't give you a break.

>Like I said, no beauty, no elegance, no power, no intensity, no nothing. Just a void of anything that makes other ZUN music good.
False

It's a good theme just like any other 2hu song, the intensity of it fits the atmosphere of the encounter perfectly, and it being a contrast to the calm and beautiful stage 5 theme also fits even more with Youmu being a character about dualities. And the organ feels fitting with how she is half dead and all.