>Small navies edition
honest question - when you can barely afford a literal handful of the smallest frigates possible, what really is the point?
can any sailor here from the Low Countries tell me?

if it were me, I'd just have a couple of antismuggling boats. there's no point to something like this being caught up in a shooting war between carrier groups and a hundred Soviet bombers

>>63776224 (OP)
Harbour defence, EEZ, SAR.
Uruguay here.

>>63776224 (OP)
If you are a small country and only got a small number of frigates but then all your neighbors are small countries also bringing a small number of frigates then suddenly you've got a lot of frigates in the event of a shooting war. At least that is how NATO thinks it will go.

Since talking about small navies - Coastal Defense Ship time!

>>63776230
that's what I thought, you don't really need anti-air missiles or anti-submarine torpedoes for that

>>63776243
I'd sooner have put the money into more tanks and jets, don't you think?

>>63776271
Just because you can't afford a 80k truck, doesn't mean you don't need a truck. If you have to make do with second or third hand ships, that's what you have to do. Your requirements, are your requirements. Regardless of budget.

But so do your neighbours.

>>63776224 (OP)
What can a few anti smuggler boats offer to an alliance?

>>63776271
A blue water navy is still quite useful especially if you need to protect shipping coming into your ports.

>>63776224 (OP)
you still need them for sovereignty exercises and you just team up with other small/medium navies when you need to undertake anything bigger.
I've a friend who used to serve on a Belgian frigate, he's trained with the French, British, Italian, US, Spanish and German navy and they are co-based with the Dutch (who like to steal anything not bolted down and if it is they'll also take the bolts).
The moment things where to go hot they'd provide protection for the one thing the Belgian navy is very good at, mine sweeping or they'd be a part in a larger multinational fleet where they can do just about anything else an other frigate can.

>>63776416
>anti-Dutch navy
Everyone seems to hate dealing with the Dutch navy in NATO.

>>63776271
>you don't really need anti-air missiles or anti-submarine torpedoes for that
Anon, it's 2025, relatively modern anti-ship missile are within capabilities of non state actors and rouge states. Unless it's coast guard cutter you install missile-based air defence because alternative is roleplaying sinking of Eilat.

>>63776438
I haven't heard anything bad from other navies about the Dutch.
But the Belgian navy is mostly co-based in the Netherlands and almost all of it are the same hulls and fitting. So when the Belgians go home for the weekend the Dutch used the Belgian ships as a parts depo.
All so they could get their readiness numbers up.
it got to the point where the Belgian navy had to organize informal weekend watches.

>>63776486
>Anon, it's 2025
well yeah shit's different now

we are in the age when point defence anti-ballistic capability has virtually become a necessity, because you can't even operate in the vicinity of a non-state actor who might happen to have scored a Ghadr antiship ballistic missile on the black market

Time for some torpedo boats!

>>63776224 (OP)
EEZs are a thing and countries would often do cost risk analysis on whether or not it's okay to be a retard in someone else's EEZ

Obligatory Spanker

>>63777785
Thanks, daddy

smol euro poor navy

>>63776525

It's time for Ansluss and to conquer EVROPA as the unified Low Lands, brother.

>>63776224 (OP)

honest question - when you can barely afford a literal handful of the smallest frigates possible, what really is the point?

I'm not a sailor, but we (The Netherlands) have an EEZ to guard, as well as overseas parts of the kingdom in the Caribbean. Also, we are part of NATO and we should be able to contribute to wider NATO missions. Just a few anti-smuggling boats isn't enough for that.

How did a destroyer survived 6 kamikaze strikes and 4 bomb hits?

>>63777825
I guess almost all the damage was above the waterline.

>>63777813
Soon to get a whole lot bigger.
>>63777825
It laughed it off.
>>63777839
I had to double check those were warships instead of luxury yachts.

>>63777839
these things are the absolute sexiest

For me, it's the Tone-class heavy cruiser of the Imperial Japanese Navy.
Honestly, all IJN heavy cruisers are pure fucking sex, special runner up is the Takao class as well as the Myokos. I just love heavy cruisers

I miss the time when frigates could get away with looking like this

>>63778094

>>63778136
I missed when they could look like the ships in this show: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ukt18OtJwRY

>>63778094
that forward turret configuration is retarded

>>63778638
no u

>>63778094
Good choice. The amount of Torps these bad boys carried made them absolutely savage in their ideal operating environment (night fighting).

>>63778638
Nah it's pretty good, bigger aviation facility gives more air search options, gun laying and illumination at night.

>>63778094
>>63778843
>>63778859
Just imagine if the Japanese had developed proper radar for their ships. The night raping they could do.
>>63778638
What are you, gay?

>>63778655
>>63778859
>>63779205

Behold a non-retarded heavy cruiser turret config where you can fire all the guns forward and still launch planes.

>>63779277
the New Orleans carried only two planes; the Tones could carry six, AND support a higher sortie rate, which was the main point of devoting the whole aft to flight ops

>>63779277
And where are the torpedoes? How are you supposed to execute a daring charge, send the enemy formation sinking and running, without torpedoes!

>>63779401
I suppose it is just a doctrine/operational difference, US cruisers were jack of all trades, tones were suppose to be carrier support hence the recon planes. also they took all those planes off the Tones by 44 cause they would be shot to shit.

>>63779404
torps are gey and for destroyers, never understood why japan had such a hard on for CA launched torps, maybe because the long lances were hot shit

>>63779458
The Japanese seemed pretty heavily invested into underwater damage in general. Torpedoes and heavier shells designed to be capable of hitting below the waterline.
Flooding is bad for any warship, and maybe the Japanese figured their opponents would have trouble controlling flooding.

>>63779458
>US cruisers were jack of all trades, tones were suppose to be carrier support hence the recon planes
yep
one of the reasons why I love the derpy lil ayy-Tones

>>63779513
the Japs never got the WW1 experience which the RN did get (at Heligoland and Jutland) and shared with the USN, the result of which was the Anglo navies believing that shells were a more consistent way to kill ships than torpedoes
accuracy, for one, is a big point in favour of shelling. a lot is said about Japanese torpedo attacks, which were effective, but they gloss over inaccurate torpedo attacks are and how many torpedoes missed

Always wondered what would have happened if Japs were able to keep their ships post WW2 and they got converted to guided missile cruisers in the late 50's?
Takao and Myoko seem like they could have been very capable in this regards. Hell even Sakawa seemed like she could be refit rather well.

>>63779937
for the 50s all you need is rapid fire 3" and a shedload of radars for pretty decent AA escort
picrel, for example
early-gen SAMs are almost not worth the weight really
by the 60s you can just build new ground-up guided missile escorts

Japanese ships continue to look cool, but their early aviation destroyers really stand out. Superfiring guns and big hangar space on the back.

>>63779937
They at least kept the Wakaba and Ojika (PL-10X series, not PL-0X) Both series got some 76mm cannons post war. Sadly no cruisers or even destroyers were kept. The ones that ended up in Taiwanese hands got taken care of relatively well, but literally any IJN ship that slavniggers got their hands on were basically rust buckets within 4 years after the war ended and had to be scrapped because they are genetically incapable of running a navy.

>>63781147
that's very very nice

I like the Hatsuyukis best of all the postwar Japanese escorts

>>63779277
>no torpedoes
>high profile, easy to hit
>despite smaller air search capability this class's aviation facility was an Achilles' heel fire hazard on the ship unlike those on Japanese cruisers

>>63779277
She is ugly as fuck.

>>63782023
>smaller air search capability
you're comparing a dedicated seaplane cruiser 25% bigger with a standard heavy cruiser
the closest Japanese equivalent to the New Orleans class are the Aobas and Myokos, and they carried the same seaplane complement
>Achilles' heel fire hazard
overblown

>>63779983
>>63781258
Shame what happened to the rest of the boats.
Just dawned on me considering their seaplane decks would they have made good early helicopter carriers hybrids as well?
>>63781147
I wonder how cramped it is inside?

>>63782436
>would they have made good early helicopter carriers hybrids as well?
in theory yes

but the main problem is age. in those days warships were built for no more than an expected 20-year life. no heavy cruiser was worth rebuilding as a helicopter cruiser; the only surviving light cruiser young enough would've been Sakawa.

>>63782487
>in those days warships were built for no more than an expected 20-year life

If the Oyodo was still in good condition, its large hangar and aft deck space would be attractive for repurposing.
However, it took 20 years after the war for the JMSDF to start operating ship-based helicopters.

This talk about about what if Nips were able to keep their ships makes me wonder what they would have done with Nagato outside of scrap her?
Something tells me Nips would have probably have kept her around as long as they could.

>During her major overhaul in 1974–75, her forward 5 in/54 Mark 42 gun mount was replaced with an 8 in/55 Mark 71 gun mount.
>This Major Caliber Lightweight Gun ("MCLWG") was the result of a project dating back to the 1960s, when it was realized that heavy gunfire support for amphibious operations would die with the existing force of heavy cruisers unless a big gun could be developed for destroyer-size ships.
>A prototype gun and mounting had been built and tested ashore during the early 1970s. Hull was its test ship for seagoing trials, after which it was expected that several of these guns would be installed on board destroyers of the new Spruance class.

>>63783417
Was a German made in charge of the guns?

>>63783398
I can see why none of the large Japanese ships were kept. Not just because "We don't want a militarized Japan" also because they wouldn't fit into a larger picture. They were built with different styles of fighting in mind, which would not work alongside American or British ideas.
And "survived" at the end of WW2 is far from ideal. Ships may have been afloat, but they still suffered damage. From attacks, lack of maintenance and poor-quality fuel causing other issues if they were still running late-war. Enough patchwork to run them for demobilization voyages but not much more.

>>63783566
What are the tracks the run the lengths of the port and starboard rails?
> depth charges? if so, they could carry a couple hundred

>>63783566
No. Why?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/8-inch/55-caliber_Mark_71_gun

>>63783718
I wonder this too and my guess is something to do with the ship's boats.

>>63783718
They're rails for mines

Surface vessels exist to be targets for aircraft

>>63783826
Fuck aircraft carriers!

>>63783768
The Germans put 5.9inch guns on their destroyers.
>>63783826
>>63783844
You made the post so you had an excuse to post that webm didn't you?

I got to see the Mistral and Juan Carlos I in person last year
Kinda regret not going to the harbor to see the FS Aconit this year or the USS Arleigh Burke few years back

>>63779277
Hey anon, no need to be discriminatory, I love all heavy cruisers Japanese and American :^)

>>63783954
>You made the post so you had an excuse to post that webm didn't you?
No.

>>63783965
Got anymore pics?
>>63783981
Shame I would have approved.

>>63784055
only couple since I could only get a good view from a single public roof top, Couldn't get any closer since the docks weren't open to the public. Here's Juan Carlos I pulling out (arrived a bit too late to see it docked but view to her(his?) spot was shit anyways)

>>63784243
I'm posting these from my phone so I can't really tell how good any of these are

>USS Harvey Milk renamed during "pride month" by order of the President
Can't stop won't stop winning.

>>63784249
USS Kearsarge also dropped by few years back. It was docked in a better spot so you could get real close.
Seeing these things up close real does hammer home how fucking huge they actually are.

>>63784288
You know that there was dazzle camo meant to disguise what direction a ship was moving? I take one look at that tower and I thought I was looking at it from the wrong angle.

Aside from money, and the RCN actually wanting to do it, tell me why this couldn't/wouldn't work.

>>63784434
Stuck it on a roof you could probably get both.

>>63784434
what enemy threat would you be trying to address with this armament?

>>63784852
Greenpeace.

>>63784911
then what you'd need would be drone jammers and an LRAD, not the RIM-116, because Greenpeace probably wouldn't sling an antiship missile at you

keep the Oerlikon

Anyone else really like Royal Navy ship names?

>>63784948
No.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Cockchafer_(1915)

>>63784987
Cute!

>>63784948
Royal Navy had some excellent names including a Victorian Gunboat named Batman, a former slave ship called Black Joke and a balloon carrier called Canning which I am sure HMS Spanker fan will love.

>>63785233 digits of truth speak
>Royal Navy had some excellent names
Yes they did
> be Royal Navy
> HMS Porcupine
> gets blown in half by a torpedo
> tow the two halves back to port
> repair.jpg
> re-register each half as a barracks ship
> behold, HMS Pork and HMS Pine
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Porcupine_(G93)

>>63785233
Be Royal Navy
> HMS Zulu and HMS Nubian
> Nubian gets her bow blown off by a torpedo
> Zulu gets her stern blown off by a mine
> idea.mp3
> Join the two halves to get HMS Zubian
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Zubian

>>63786222
We should have renamed this to USS Sanolulu after its little whoopsie was fixed.

>>63786219
>>63786222
cheeky bastards
I love it

>>63786480
Kek.
>>63786918
Bongs are masters of the subtle shitpost.
One shudders what they would have come up with if Fisher ideas were fully realized.

>>63787013
As much as I coom over Incomparable, the G3 k designs were more grounded

Emotional support Gearing.
USS Noa - DD-841
SPS Blas de Lezo - D65

>>63786843
Loved visiting her in Wilmington, such a perfect battleship

>>63776224 (OP)
Dutch navy is large and capable, oceangoing esp compared to other European countries, only to increase with >2% norm and new acquisition projects. Hell, it likely even accounts for the Belgians being lackluster but even they're likely getting another frigate. Only issues are in terms of political climate for the long term and personnel shortages.

>>63787443
Interesting note about the G3, it was the name of a notorious homosexual magazine in the UK distributed in gay clubs.

>>63787466
Meant for >>63787025
Reupload as well as I think I uploaded the Kurwa version of the image.

>>63787443
That actually looks really cool. Especially if you want to put a bunch of launchers on the deck.

>>63787466
This gun arrangement is so ass.

>>63787546
>This gun arrangement is so ass.
There probably was an engineering reason behind it that will no doubt likely escape us just like what the French planned with the Lyon. That said the gun arrangement is indeed soggy ass.

>>63787944
And helps if I labelled my images correctly since I accidentally posted a Normandie which at least made sense at the time.

>>63787944
Concentrating main batteries around the widest part of the ship reduces the overall length of the thickest armour and shortens the magazines. It all relates to weight and size constraints in relation to desired speed for the ship in question. The odd arrangement of turrets isn't too much of a downside, most naval battles are fought nearer to broadsides, even during WWII and stern chases very rarely happened.

what are the most successful or iconic warships in all of human history?

Warspite, Enterprise, Yamato...?

>>63789797
USS Johnston made Yamato her bitch so Yamato is immediately in the running for being successful.

Warspite and Enterprise are up there for being full of plot armor and being unkillable.

HMS Victory had a really exceptional career outside of Trafalgar. She was much faster than ships that were smaller than her, could tank a lot of damage and was such a good ship that basically when Royal Navy many decades down the line needed a new batch of first rates they basically took the Victory blueprints and just copied those.

>>63791497
Thanks
What would be good ships from non-Anglo navies?
Bismarck, Tirpitz... that cursed Japanese destroyer... can any Continentals suggest good ships from their navies?

>>63791583
For the German navy there isn't really a surface ship that really could have described as being distinguished that I can think of as its not really a case of the Germans being good but the Brits massively dropping the ball. They spent the majority of wars sitting in dock as they knew moment they went to open sea they'd get clapped hard.

>inb4 le sinking of the Hood, Glorious and battle of ze Jutland
Hood should have never been sent out in the condition she was in. She was literally falling apart and was several years overdue an overhaul. If the Brits could have used any other capitalship at the Denmark Straight they would have.
If the Captain of the Glorious survived he'd have been courtmartialed for gross incompetence for doing absolutely everything he shouldn't have done leading up the ambush.
Jutland was basically Brits not bothering to resolve issues that some of the admiralty were screaming about before the battle and Beatty being a complete tool.

Now there are exceptions for the Germans and that is their Merchant Raiders. They were highly effective, even more so than u-boats in terms of shipping sunk. Kormoran in particular was notable as she not only got a fair few ships but also took out HMAS Sydney. She had to be scuttled after said engagement but it was still an impressive feat.

For the Japanese Mogami was more a hilarious ship than anything for having the worst luck imaginable. She once infamously fired off a torpedo spread that managed to sink 5 transports that all belonged to the Japanese army.

As for a few honorable mentions is that USS Marblehead had an interesting voyage early war and basically did a round the world trip which when she showed up in New York everyone was surprised cause they thought she was sunk. There was also an Ital sub that also did a rather impressive round the world trip as well as it was designed mainly to operate near the coast, not deep water, forget the name of it though.

>>63791677
Eh I would raise SMS Seydlitz for somehow surviving Jutland but imo your right. The Kaiserliche Marine get gaped by getting captured and scuttled so they couldn't participate in WW2 like the QE, Renown+Repulse and the Revenges.

>>63791677
>Kormoran
ooo that's a good one
Atlantis too

the Battle of Coronel wasn't too bad
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Coronel

Yukikaze is the Jap destroyer I was thinking of
the one you DON'T want to be flotillamates with

>>63791691
>Seydlitz
and Derfflinger!

>>63789797
If you're willing to allow u boats, then SM U35 would be up there, it had over 200 confirmed kills.

>>63791751
Coronel is one in that it was heavily one sided against the Germans and could legit pass this as Brits dropping the ball again. Germans had far more modern ships and numeric superiority here so its unsurprising it was a victory.
Meanwhile on the Brit side Cradock was begging the Admiralty for the love of all that was holy to send them more modern ships and kept telling them that the situation they were in wasn't favorable but the retard it was getting relayed through was of course Churchill.

>>63791861
>one sided against the Germans
I meant in favor of the Germans

Should also note if Canopus had been there as she was meant to have been then the Germans would have fled and there would have been no battle.

>>63791677
For the Germans, Emden deserves mention for running her own campaign in the Pacific during WW1. Merchant raiding, naval engagements, shore parties. Then when she was knocked out, some of her crew found their own ways back to Germany. Not a bad run for a light cruiser.

>Mogami
>managed to sink 5 transports that all belonged to the Japanese army.
Glorious victory for the Imperial Navy!

>>63792018
What's better is that Mogami blamed it on the USS Houston and the army bought it, not accounting for fact that the USS Houston didn't carry torpedoes.

>>63792107
I want a source on that, badly.

>>63792209
This is a good write up, slightly embellished no doubt but more or less accurate. Written by David Lippman.
https://warfarehistorynetwork.com/article/mogami-japans-luckless-cruiser/

>>63791497
>USS Johnston made Yamato her bitch
Johnston literally got split into two halves by a battleship shell, probably from Yamato. Pipe down burger.

Stop the Chinese stealing our fish, the Japanese eating whales, to stop the migrant boats and drug runners.

To deter the Indonesian navy having a go, to persistently threaten Chinese strategic supply.... which comes from us. Indo-asian- strategic-interests.

We use them for supporting on shore activity in the north, which is much easier to supply by sea. And also to deny enemy forces shallow water transit corridors.


Because put it this way, if you've got a navy with howitzers, most of the marine vermin won't even bother taking up arms. If they can't challenge you they won't waste money trying. But if you don't have a navy then every bandit in a bathtub becomes a national security threat.

>>63792298
I've found Warfare History Network to put a bit more research into their articles, not a bad resource even if I disagree sometimes

The Atlantis voyage was full of pirate adventure romance, resupplying with fresh water on deserted island in the Antarctic and selling captured gasoline and classified documents to Japan.
However, the final battle was hopeless, as even Kormoran was killed in a draw.

>>63791806
not really
otherwise I'd have nominated U47 and U99 myself

>>63791677
>For the Japanese Mogami was more a hilarious ship than anything for having the worst luck imaginable. She once infamously fired off a torpedo spread that managed to sink 5 transports that all belonged to the Japanese army
All the Japanese ships with Mogami fired their torpedoes, releasing a monstrous salvo of over 50 torpedoes. There's no definitive consensus possible for which ship fired the torpedoes that hit the transports, or even if the transports were hit by Japanese torpedoes instead of allied ones. Yeah the article is embellished as hell.

What's your guys favorite warship?

>>63793859

>>63793912
You posted that ship on purpose, didn't you?

>>63794016
alright alright
I didn't think you'd catch on that quick lol

I do actually like the Yorks, Countys and Leanders - I have always loved the idea of a minimum trade protection cruiser, always fired my imagination somehow - but the Towns are my actual favourite warship class
(KGVs runner-up I guess)

I visited Belfast once and have a hankering to go again

What is a 10 day itinerary through Japan for a naval aspiring enthusiast such as myself?
I was thinking of splitting my time betweeb Tokyo/Yokohama and the Hiroshima area, these seem to be the biggest IJN areas.
Opinions?

>>63793859
Repulse or Warspite, it's difficult to choose

>>63794647
Warspite. Warspite sitting where Belfast is would be interesting.
That'd make conversation in Parliament a bit interesting.

>>63794685
I would rather have her back in her hometown personally

>>63794685
Warspite had a machine spirit. When they scrapped her it was murder.

>>63793859
Carrier: Enterprise
Never built: HMS Incomparable/G3 "K" design with 18 inch
Battleship (Individual): Warspite
Battleship (design): Richelieu, the quad front mount is pure sexo
Battleship (Holistically): KGV class battleships
Battlecruiser: SMS Seydlitz for not exploding at Jutland
Cruiser: Alashka Class
Destroyer: USS Johnston
"Modern": Kirov class despite being Soviet-Rus shit, gimmie modern day Nuclear Guided Missle Cruisers at 30,000 displacement

>>63794693
She'd never fit that far up the Thames anyway.

>>63794735
don't fat shame

>>63793859
>Start trying to think of different categories
>All the answers coming up in my head are Japanese
Oh my kami! I'm a weeb!

>>63794300
Kure is the only place you need to go more than any other.
Huge submarine base, and the Yamato museum which is just fucking amazing. Went there last year.

>>63793859
Shigure
Chokai
Zuiho
Kongo

>>63794778
Bitch would try it. Lots of scenery would get hurt.
Those guns leveled on Parliament would be a sight to see.

>>63778136
>>63778594
muh dikkkkk

>>63793859
She's the sexiest girl I've ever seen growing up and till this day STILL the sexiest girl i've seen.

>>63776224 (OP)
During Operation Praying Mantis, the IRINS Joshan (P225) nearly hit the USS Wainwright (CG-28) with a harpoon missile. The former was about 234 tons, the latter 7,930 tons.
In an era of anti-ship missiles, any vessel that can launch one can be a threat.

Sources,
>The missile passed down the starboard side of the Wainwright—no more than a hundred feet from the ship.
From 'Gulf of Conflict: A History of U.S.-Iranian Confrontation at Sea' by David B. Crist in Policy Focus #95, June 2009, p.8
>Iranian officials correctly observed that during Operation Praying Mantis, a lone missile from the Joshan had nearly knocked out the largest U.S. warship in the Persian Gulf. More small boats and missiles, they surmised, would have made the battle a costly one for the U.S. Navy.
Idib, p.21
>The incoming Harpoon was sighted by the signal bridge and starboard lookout on the Wainwright as it streaked by, forward to aft, 100 feet off the starboard side of the ship. Anxious crewmen on the ship heard the missile loudly roar by.
From 'Tanker War: America's First Conflict With Iran, 1987-1988' by Zatarain, p.235 (recommended read)
>Nonetheless, the Harpoon passed so close over the ship that the personnel on the bridge were deafened by the roar of the missile.
From 'The Iran-Iraq War in the Air, 1980-88', Tom Cooper, p.270

>>63794735
Oh she would have found a way, just like if she had survived they'd pressed her into service for Korea and she'd have somehow stopped the Chinks at the Yalu River.
Warspite doing the impossible is what she does best.

>>63777824
Neen dank je, ik wil geen tikkie krijgen voor de annexatie

>>63776224 (OP)
>smallest frigates
Hier breekt mijn klomp

>>63782746
Carriers are relatively simple compared to traditional cannon-warships. The planes she carried were the ones that underwent rapid change. Plus the Midway got extensively refitted twice.

>>63795988 digits!
>Praying Mantis
>any vessel that can launch one can be a threat
And any vessel that can launch one can also catch many
> P225 gets off one Harpoon
> FFG Simpson responds with four Standard missiles
> CG Wainwright wants some too, responds with one Standard missile
> All missiles hit
> FF Bagley is late to the party and fires its own Harpoon

>>63782746
Only because Midway was practically rebuilt to swell the numbers of the 600-Ship Navy
Look at her sister ship Roosevelt

>laid down: 1942

>>63794979
Yeah, I included that in the Hiroshima cluster

>>63794300
are you going this year?
they're pushing the boat out for the 80th anniversary of V-J day if you are

>>63797837
No, next year unfortunately... wgat boat are you talking about?

>>63797930
"to push the boat out" is an idiom meaning to go all out, put maximum effort
the Japs closed their museums for a month or two last year just to get ready for the anniversary
(as I unfortunately discovered when I went over)

>>63798478
That's quite unique to do that effort for a war you lost, but at the same time it made a big chunk of your modern identity. Bouncing back from that defeat to make a better world.
Now that more war wrecks have been found, I've been hoping the IJN ships would have a lot more images/scans captured.

>>63791583
>that cursed Japanese destroyer
Not that they didn't have successful destroyers and some relatively good interwar designs, but the torpedo stood out more than the ships.

Yamato is fairly iconic, I'd push the carriers Zuikaku and Shōkaku. They don't exactly fill the bill, but Akitsu Maru and Shinshū Maru.

>>63798838
I was referring to Yukikaze's career as the Gump of the fleet

Fake WG ship, but I wish she were real. So sexy.

>>63799463
Sad thing is if she was real she'd just have spent all war in port with no fuel.

>>63799463
>Fake WG ship
>>>/vg/

I've always hate HMS Nelson, its half a ship, where's the back half, it isn't a full ship and I'm tired of pretending it is

>>63801141
meh
it's just swapping the rear turret and the bridge superstructure

>>63801162
No it needs to be completed, three turrets behind the superstructure, instead it just sort of stops abruptly, half a ship

>>63801168
it's got nine 15" guns, it was at one time one of the best battleships in the world, much less "half"

>>63801141
I like how when she was being designed everyone thought UK was building a Battlecarrier. It was the only explanation they could come up with.

>>63796222
>what BMD requirements do to a mf
I don't even want to imagine the unit price for this

>>63801181
She had 9 16inch guns which is more firepower of the battleships of her time. The only ships that came close were the Nagatos and the Colorados.

>>63801185
Battlecarriers are exactly how 1918-era battleships were used. A battleship such as HMS Queen Elizabeth could carry as many as four spotter-fighters. In WW1, a seaplane tender such as HMS Nairana could carry only eight planes at most. So in WW1 a battlecarrier could carry a hefty fraction of an "actual" carrier's air wing, and a design like the Nelsons could, IF it cleared the aft entirely, probably carry as many as six or more seaplanes.
but
>It was the only explanation they could come up with
isn't true. All-forward gun dreadnoughts had already been proposed and discarded before the naval treaty era.

look at our vls cells man, we're so fucking fucked

>>63801403
>VLS cucked
That has to be an edit?

>>63778594
I'm from Argentina and I hate to admit it, but I love the cold war RN aesthetics, sexiest ships ever, we even bought them up to right before the war.

My BBfu is HMS Vanguard.

>>63801424
built for but not fitted anon :)))

>>63801403
WHY IS IS OFF-CENTER!? AAAAAA

>>63801446
But why as anon >>63801458 comments?
This is very triggering.

>>63801431
>hercules
Missing the Sea Dart missile launcher

>>63801468
>why
>>63801458
Room for a second 8-cell set but it's not yet installed

>>63801431
It was quite interesting that the Argie fleet was a mix of US and RN warships and there was legit potential for Type 42's to be engaging each other from both sides.

>>63782017
Missiles on turrets is peak

>>63801477
But even if the other 8 set was installed it looks like it would still be off center?

>>63801497
If the other 8 are installed the current installation would be shifted a bit right as well
Probably the reason why it's done like this right now is to allow more room around the thing for cabling etc on the right, but I'll guess that the access hatch is on the left, so they didn't want to center it unnecessarily, giving more access space

>>63801538
What if they replaced the VLS with containers filled with drones?

>>63801912
Seems odd that they took so long to figure out that the flatdeck as a concept is a good idea since aircraft tend to like level ground to land and take off from.

>>63803494
There was about three months separating HMS Furious having its aircraft ramp installed and the first designs for HMS Eagle including a full-length flight deck.

There is some logic to the idea that half the length of the deck is sufficient for takeoff and landing, especially in the days of biplanes.

One flight = good, multiple = better

>>63803494
as other anon said, it took no time at all really
they spent a really short time mulling over odd thoughts like "will pilots get too disoriented if the whole deck is just flat and there's no island as a point of reference?"
airplane development was the real limiting factor ultimately

>>63803986
I like US carriers from WW2 because underneath the flight deck there's a second sneaky sideways flight deck.

>>63804210

>>63804216

>>63804216
>>63804219
Thanks for the images anon. I genuinely have never seen images of this in action till now.

It would be good for countering surprise attacks at anchorages and for moving pilots and aircraft.
But could the main catapult also be used while anchored?

>>63805201
It was used for launching scouts and the upper deck could be used at the same time

>>63791677
ww1:
one little cruiser, sms emden, was enough to quit 75% of all ship traffic between australia and india.
after the first ships were sunk, all brit. insurance companies opted out and the trade companies left their ships at port.

and dont get me started what efforts were neccessary to keep fleets in being 1.under survellance and 2.enough ships ready in case said fleet in being moves out of her harbor. the german high sea fleet was worth her weight in gold in that regard. most if the rn was bound to sit around because of it.
austrias cosy dreadnought quartet held almost the entire italian, french and most of uks mediterran ships campingbat the otranto strait. the entente even seized the greek fleet and asked the japs for help to deal with that tiny alpine navy.

ww2: the brits always downplay it, but bismarck scared em shittless. tirpitz became the stereotype of a fleet in being, with the home fleet camping outside her fjord. i dunno which of the two had the bigger strategic impact, but both forced the brits to mobilise very large unproportional forces to counter these two ships.

the greeks dominated the turks and half of the mediterrean with their one great cruiser Georgios Averof interwar.

uss yorktown survives the pearl harbor strike and completely disrupts the entire japanese strategy.

>>63805425
>the german high sea fleet was worth her weight in gold
a lot of money that should've been spent on artillery for the front

Bismarck's hash was settled faster and more easily than Tirpitz or any other KM squadron in the war
the only thing that died faster and with less impact was Graf Spee

>>63805437
show me on this hood puppet where the bismarck touched you

>>63805425
The HSF autism started the entire strategic breakaway from the UK for little reason due to the German Empire being a major land power and ultimately resulted in the fall of the German Empire. Despite how they preformed in action they were not worth their weight in anything

>>63805495
so post how much merchant shipping Bismarck sank then

>>63805495
Lot of shit coming from a ship within torpedo distance!

>>63806783

HMAS Vampire
I got to wander around it as a kid but never thought to look up what it actually was.
Definitely a smoll ship but it felt massive to me.

Also have visited the shipyard where it was built, really cool little island. Bit sad to see it all run down though.

>>63807565
As a kid I got to see a gun boat and a missile corvette, both seemed fuckhuge at the time
As an adult I visited a cruiser and got totally lost
That's just how it is
Someday i might get to see a battleship. I'll probably be too old and tired before I even make it to the bridge lol

>HMAS Vampire
Pinnacle of British WW2 destroyer design

Favorite ship in active service? Even though very few probably have accomplishments that will last in naval history?

>>63777825
their artwork is so much nicer than the other game company

>>63809717
Wish I knew more about the Seafire vs Zero dogfights over the Pacific. That must have been a spectacle and a half.

>>63807637
You gotta admire the cool factor of calling a warship fucking Vampire.
I'd have to go to the US to ever see a battleship and that isn't happening sadly.
Was Vampire a ww2 design? it was built post war but ship procurement be weird.

The little sub next to her, HMAS Onslow has some fun history behind it too also. Don't think I ever got to climb around on her.

>>63808718
Shame the game keep getting worse and worse with every patch.

>>63809894
If you are talking about the Daring class that's a post WW2 design even if their origins are based off the Battle class.
There was a fuckton of ships named Vampire btw.
>>63809906
I decided to have a look at the game.
Why the fuck are so many real world ships made as premiums and standard boats just paper boats?
Like the Dunkerque is a premium but they made the Normandie, a boat that never was completed, standard tech tree?

>>63809927
I'm not that well versed on warships, I just think they're neat haha. That's a cool picture though thank you.
Would love to know why they called any ship Vampire though.

>>63809956
Because it was part of the V-class.
>Valentine, Valorous, Valkyrie, Valhalla, Vampire

>>63809975
Ahh, okay. That's cool!

>>63809806
the Seafire barely encountered the Zero, because 2/3rds of the British carrier wing was Martlets or Corsairs, and the Sea Hurricane was preferred over the Seafire as it could withstand more carrier deck landings

I'm still looking for a good book detailing the Spitfire vs Zero duels over Darwin. in many ways it was the "real" baptism of fire for the RAAF as a force, rather than as contributions to the Empire.

>>63809894
the Daring class was designed during WW2 and built towards the very end so what with one thing and another, it didn't see much actual combat
even destroyers took 2 years to fully build and fit out

>>63810040
Based on the book by General Kenny of the 5th airforce, the spitfires performed terribly against the zeros at the start, the pilots all thought they had the best turning plane in the world and got shredded by the zeros, just like the yanks did at first contact. they had to start energy fighting like the americans and not get into turning with the zeros. although this is from a biased american perspective.

>>63810163
Funny thing is I have heard opposite, that the Seafire was quite a nasty shock to the Japs as although they could outturn the Seafire at low speeds, at high speeds it was a completely other matter so they could use a series of high speed dives and climbs to basically rob the Zero of its advantage? This is what I read from the David Brown book on the Seafire in case wondering and does seem to collaborate with some reports on the Spitfire vs the Zero in testing.

>>63810194
I mean it is right there in that text, "do not attempt to dogfight the hap, especially at low speeds" this is what the americans learned, most of their planes had better performance up high and better energy. This is different from the Europe theater where the germans wanted to energy fight and not dog fight. Kenny had tried to warn them but they had to learn the hard way.

>>63809927
IIRC Dunkerque was added to the game before the French BB line.

>>63810163
>>63810194
IMO the complaint that the Zero was a wunderwaffen usually comes from inexperienced pilots like the USAAF and RAAF
Chennault in China and the RAF in India did alright against Japanese fighters, but they had to leverage their strengths as one always does in DAC. One of the tactics was to accept a head-on pass because the stronger protection on Hurricanes and P40s - e.g. engine firewalls and armoured glass - meant they would kill the Japanese fighter first.
They actually seem to have lost most of their strength on the ground, and that's just what happens when you get overwhelmed by vastly superior numbers.

>>63810323
The zero was a very good fighter and in the early days its pilots were very experienced and its opponents were not, as soon as the allies developed counter tactics, like head ons or the thach weave, or just booming and zooming with the more modern fighters like the hellcats, p-38s and 47s that were just way more powerful, then it turned into a turkey shoot. The japs could never build a better fighter at scale and they totally failed to train pilots at scale so once the really good generation was ate up in 1943 they never stood a chance.

I have never seen the lightweight filler defensive compartments of French battleships in other countries.
Based on the lessons learned from the Battle of Seydlitz, the buoyancy compartments seem to be effective.

Poor Johnny.

Anyway if you don't like me posting 3DCG ships just tell me and I will stop.

>>63810340
Yup

>Thach weave
even at Midway, Jimmy Thach had only trained his own flight in the tactic, out of the whole squadron, and at the battle itself had to pull off the manoeuvre with a wingman (not his usual) who had only heard of the move but had not actually flown it
in popular histories of the war, the American technocentric mentality emphasises the hardware superiority of e.g. the F6F over the Zero, but greatly understates the importance of pilot skill and training

>>63810359
Its just about to transform into stage 2.

>>63809927
Sometimes, it doesn't appear like there is much logic in the tech tree ships. Famous individual ships they want as premiums, and the tech tree is meant to be a general representation of a class. Others are just filler meant to fill a space and encourage people to skip using Free XP/money. It is neat to see 3D representations of some planned ships.

>>63810305
Same for Tirpitz with the Germans and Hood for the British. A little taste of what's coming, which in 2/3 of those cases (the German one withstanding) the premiums sit outside of how their original associated lines play.
I still like the game but it's sad to see how every new ship needs a game-breaking gimmick.

Something for Yamato fans who want to know more about how the class reached its final design. Some of those early ones are quite unique looking (and I'm glad we didn't get those.)
https://warshipprojects.com/2018/04/24/the-yamato-class-genesis/

>>63810604
not a Yamato fan but useful website, thanks

>>63810578
I'm still pissed about the nelson, and graf spree getting removed from premium shop

>>63810846
>graf spree
Deutschland and Admiral Scheer are coming in the new German cruiser line.

>>63810163
>Based on the book by General Kenny of the 5th airforce
Into the trash it goes. There's few bullshitters bigger than Kenney in the history of WW2. He regularly forwarded exorbitant claims and reports. Put together, the raids he ordered on Rabaul since the beginning of the war would've destroyed the total air strength the Japanese had in the entire Solomons thrice over, and several hundred thousand tons more of shipping than what was actually sunk. He was also extremely biased and maliciously omitted allied contributions to the war.

>>63810194
The Spits were completely decimated in early war, at near the same rate as Hurricanes and even Buffalos.

>>63810340
The Japanese built fighters better than all of those, their weakness was not in the fighters, it was in the lack of experienced aviators, ground maintenance, and being hopelessly outnumbered. The Kawanishi N1K outclassed the Hellcat and Corsair, the Kawasaki J2M was a match or slightly better, and the KI-84 was a match for the P-51 and even its superior in lower altitudes. Even the A6M zero, in its upgraded iterations (A6M3 with better dive speed and control, and later modifications) were nearly a match for Hellcat, P-38 and Corsair equipped fighters when piloted by experienced flyers. The turkey shooting happened in the Philippine sea against rookie pilots pressed into service very quickly. In Rabaul, even into the early months of 1944, fighting the Zero was still difficult for Hellcat carrier units and P-38/Corsairs from Airsols/Solomons/5th Airforce.

>>63810882
I said it was a biased source, but is he wrong about the European theater aviators using the wrong tactic of trying to dogfight zeros?

Is it wrong about the losses? Wiki says the allies lost 14 fighters: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raid_on_Darwin_(2_May_1943)#:~:text=The%20Japanese%20raid%20on%20Darwin,little%20damage%20on%20the%20ground.

And I did say the Japanese had a two fold issue of building better fighters AT SCALE, they were stuck adapting the zero because they literally could not switch production lines, and the newer fighters, in small numbers they did build were "too hot" for the newbie pilots. That's why they did that retarded shuttle bombing plan for the Philipean sea battle, they did not trust the new pilots to even be able to land on a carrier deck, although they were almost all killed before that even became an issue. The big issue with japanese naval aviation was their training process was too selective, they kicked out everyone who was not perfect, and ground them down to nothing, it works well if you are building an elite cadre in peace time, but terrible in high intensity war. Also they lacked the fuel for training. This is all from the Ian Toll books which is a much more reliable source.

>>63810846
At this point I think I have every ship I've wanted in the game. Continuing to play is just obligation/addiction, even when I get frustrated.
Only other ships I'm really waiting on are post-refit Navada and Pennsylvania, but they would just be mid-tier slow BBs so I wouldn't expect anything special about them. Just additions to a collection. The rework to secondary guns becoming manually controlled might add something else into the game.

>>63810946
>the game
the ships in the game are basically their own thing but with historical names tacked on

>>63810263
Its the debate whether the sources are correct as other sources read on that battle don't put the Ausfags losing nearly that much and whether the losses were down to trying to get into a turn fight or was it another matter?
>>63810456
>greatly understates the importance of pilot skill and training
Honestly is shocking how this is overlooked.
>>63810882
There's sources that say the Spits had roughly a 10:1 K/D against the Japs and there isn't reliable proof of them being decimated. They weren't even deployed till 1943 and there's sources suggesting that the Raid on Darwin in 43 when they did fight the Zero the fact that so many went down wasn't down to enemy fire but legit down to simply running out of fuel.

That's why its a confusing mess to figure out what really went on.
>>63810604
Is this an alternative world where every Battleship is a Nelson?

>>63810941
>The japs could never build a better fighter at scale and they totally failed to train pilots at scale so once the really good generation was ate up in 1943 they never stood a chance.
>The Japanese built fighters better than all of those, their weakness was not in the fighters, it was in the lack of experienced aviators, ground maintenance, and being hopelessly outnumbered.
Did you read the whole post?

>>63811152
meant for >>63810882

>>63810456
>in popular histories of the war, the American technocentric mentality emphasises the hardware superiority of e.g. the F6F over the Zero, but greatly understates the importance of pilot skill and training
I don't believe this has been the modern trend.

>>63811012
>every Battleship is a Nelson?
During the interwar period when tonnage/resources were limited, most major navies were looked at the all-forward gun designs. France and Britain went ahead with theirs. Outside of stuff planned or scrapped on the slipway: Japan said "Fuck it" and did Yamato, while the US found balance in the North Carolina. Though some of the concepts for the first US fast battleships were pretty far out there.

Here's the complete opposite. All guns on the rear and aircraft catapults on the front.

>>63811152
>>63811270
Yeah, again if you read the Ian Toll books, he emphasizes the huge advantage in training naval aviators, it allowed them to exploit the strengths of their aircraft, the weaknesses of the japs and it was a virtuous cycle, they lost fewer pilots in engagements, their air groups became stronger experience wise, the japs became weaker. They were also able to do more difficult missions like night time interceptions. All because they a massive advantage in flight hours before they ever stepped into combat roles.

Its the main reason I argue all the autism about fighter specs is useless. It depends on the pilots and how the planes are used.

By the end of the war the japs turned their pilots into man guided cruise missiles while the american pilots are frustrated by lack of targets that they can use to run up absurd unit wide kill counts.

>>63811352
>he emphasizes the huge advantage in training naval aviators
American pilots of 1943 were not the American pilots of 1942

>>63811270
>I don't believe this has been the modern trend
yeah, it's gotten worse now that everyone's repeating the pop-hist late-war training and experience advantage discussion and applying it to the EARLY war

How's the IJN 100mm DP gun?

>>63811399
Yeah

>>63811399
I don't think anyone disputes the fact that USN aviators started rotating only after Midway and started training stateside pilots

>>63798478
Lmao I get it now, I thought it was a real WW2 ship kek
Sorry for the late answer, I just got back from a 3 day ban on /ck/ lol

>>63811327
True but I just like to imagine some weird alt world where everyone made a Nelson type from Battleship to Destroyers, everything resembled a Nelson
>>63811338
The Battlecarrier concept seems cool till you factor in recoil of those guns basically knocking everything out of alignment inside which would make maintaining aircraft a complete nightmare.
>>63811678
I hear people say it was the best Jap AA gun they had but that bar isn't exactly high to beat especially when the Japs have the Type 96.
5 inch DP honestly seems a lot better and more capable.
>>63812021
>I just got back from a 3 day ban on /ck/ lol
What did you post? Edible food?

>>63812021
ranted too much about sloppa?

>>63811678
the RN at least regarded the 4" as being much too small for surface work

>>63812191
>>63812665
I made fun of indian food heh

>>63813886
kek
triggered some saar mod about mummy's home cooking no doubt

>>63813886
Guess its time to talk about the Indian navy then?

>>63814365
Their new destroyers look kind of cool.
Their one Kiev-class conversion is a hilarious shitshow. They paid more for a rework than they would have for a brand new carrier.

>>63814365
The world's premier brown water navy

>>63814392
Its kind of funny how the Indians basically got scammed with the Vikramaditya despite the ship being free.

>>63814985
>they did not redeem the ship

>>63814985
scammers getting scammed, always love to see it

>>63814365
Their ships are remarkably ugly

>>63815097
Their ships look like a bunch of components salvaged from other navies bolted onto a deck which might not necessarily be too far from the truth in all honesty.

>>63815151
It's the radar dome that really gets me, the mast getting smaller before it and then having to bulge out is just bad looking, like a stop-gap that's been slapped on till the proper smaller one is put on top.

>>63815175
They need to make it ever so slightly bigger to properly accommodate the EL/M-2248 MF-STAR but they won't so all the ships they put it on look bad. Can't say I like the lip around the deck they put on them either, just train your crew to not fall off and stop shitting off the side instead of putting that on it.

i recently learned there were plans to finish the Zeven Provincies class ships with 12 british 5.25" turrets

>>63815175
The euro frigates do that a little aswell, and aren't intergrated masts much better overall? compared to the Burkes that still have it all hanging out?

not to defend the jeet fleet, they do look like shit and probably have dogshit performance, considering they have run from every fight possible in the past few years.

>>63815216
Not all of them do, the ones that do are ugly

>>63815270
nice try ball boy

>>63815308
It still goes up to a central smaller point rather than get bigger again

>>63815189
>EL
Is that Israeli?
Just a reminder from Bharat: DO NOT touch Israel!

>>63815401
Yes, the Israelis incorporate it properly onto their ships rather than bolting it on.
>Israel only uses it on Saar Class Corvettes
Bravo Nolan

>>63815430
>Saar Class
Roll credits!

Any CLAA fans here?

>>63816033
yes, but bugger off with that WOWslop

>>63816033
The most famous CLAA

Ugh... what could have been.

>>63816611
>The most famous CLAA
I thought that was San Diego?

>>63816623
Bottom left, it says "Atlanta"

>>63816630
I mean I thought San Diego is the most famous CLAA.

>>63816690
I read about Atlanta in Neptune's Inferno so my knowledge goes up until late 1942 so... I will evaluate this opion after I read all the way to the end

Plot twist: not actually a CLAA, just a war expedient CL

>>63815175
It's kind of like British/Commonwealth Hull design and sensors, and Russian arrangement on the weapons.

>>63815430
>>63815763
It's Sa'ar!
Also it's multiple classes of different ship with the same name and then a number. That triggers me.

>>63816709
Is that a Minotaur class looking on in disgust?

>>63819066
heh
this photo is supposed to date to 1946
if so, then that is very probably HMS Superb, which was stationed in the Mediterranean at the time, Minotaur now being renamed Ontario and Swiftsure stationed in the Far East

>>63819250
Think it might be HMS Superb based on photos I can find of her?

Thoughts on retro paint schemes on warships?

>>63819379
very probably given the date
this was easy because there are only two possible ships and Swiftsure was posted in Hong Kong

>>63819585
I couldn't care less if it was painted desert dawn pink if only the government could be trusted, which it can't
but whatever

>>63819585
I like it, the River Class aren't meant for any serious combat instead roles were they'll be seen a lot so it makes sense to have them be pretty.

>>63819605
The Thai version is a little bit more capable and suppose could use the helicopter as its main offensive platform but still wouldn't be something want to see in a naval battle.

>>63819756
these days nothing that doesn't have at least RIM-116 if not Seaceptor on board should be anywhere near an enemy missile

>>63819763
True, a pair of 30mm and an OTO Melara just ain't going to cut it for point defense. The fact they stick Harpoons on the thing screams a lot of optimism about its potential capabilities rather than free easy target.

>>63819585
It's neat. I really like that green.

>>63819819
suicide boat is one step up from free lunch, true

>>63819930
Think the Thai version of the boat has merit? Get a couple of hundred of them and throw them in boat meatwaves?

Well that's HMS Bristol just been towed out of Portsmouth to be scrapped.
F to the last Royal Navy Falklands Veteran.

>>63820390
Such a shame that she wasn't allowed to become a museum ship

>>63820466
In this case she wouldn't have been suitable I don't think. With the boiler explosions and all she was basically falling apart and was arguably a bit dangerous.

>>63820390
>the last Royal Navy Falklands Veteran
does Contender Bezant count?

>>63820466
she's been stripped bare, it wouldn't be the same

>>63820315
if you're already defaulting to meatwaves, which is a poor man's naval tactic, then a better choice would be a Korean FACM

>>63820536
Technically she's not a warship.

>>63820536
Although Argus suffered from being a civilian ship conversion, she definitely was a great buy.

>>63820542
That actually looks pretty cute.

>>63820845
ship says NO

>>63821179
>ship says NO
>not NO THANKS
this is because it's a Canadian warship, so it's allowed to be a little rude

Probably going to need a new thread soon.

Hope there are no torpedo boats in this thread?