Lettum me guessum: you needum more?

>>63799716 (OP)
way more

>>63799903
Six year old me thinks this is very cool anon, he thinks you need to add an M203 attached to the bayonet though

>>63799903
Ah, fuck, who let the KelTec engineers out of safe containment?!?!

>>63799716 (OP)
Let me guess you HEYA HOYA HEYA HOYA HEYA HOYA.

>>63799922
Boys night out.

>>63799716 (OP)
did the natives invent pikes for themselves? pike phalanx would be real effective for them I bet

>>63799716 (OP)
>>63799922
checked and very cool helmets

>>63799958
in a jungle fight? lmao

>/k/ pidgin

>>63799922
Natives on the west coast are very underrated

>>63800262
Arguably the most interesting.
>permenant villages, despite no agriculture
>giant canoes carved from cedars, sometimes armed with stolen cannon
>potentially bulletproof armor
>really intricate weaving traditions
>mountain goat and dog wool
>pretty well developed sense of property rights
>clam farming
>blacksmithing, thanks to iron from shipwrecks

>>63800271
>despite no agriculture
They had aquaculture, and subsistence farming

>>63800291
No, no farming. They did cultivate forests to encourage certain species to grow better, but they didn't really plant.

>>63799716 (OP)
A helmet is a personal hell met by those so hard-headed as to harden their heads against new ideas and experiences.

>>63800179
worked for alexander, there's even video evidence: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cmfzuM-SGzU

>>63800323
What doth helmet?

>>63800301
They farmed potato, berries and sometimes seaweed. Often they would dig out artificial tidepools to farm shellfish and would basically corral select types of salmon into larger artificial pools for medium term holding/breeding and to fatten them. They simply didn't need to farm anything but their staples but still did sometimes simply because not doing so was seen as a sign of being a lazy bum.

>a person who cannot feed himself at least enough to stay alive is considered a fool, perhaps mentally incompetent or suffering from very bad luck. Though eating off the beach could provide a fairly healthy and varied diet, eating nothing but "beach food" is considered contemptible among the Tlingit, and a sign of poverty.

>>63799911
Way ahead of ya

>>63799716 (OP)
>>63799922
Reminds me of the Nootka native allies in AoE3
Love those guys, great melee infantry, ideal for bumrushing the enemy

>>63799716 (OP)
IIRC the Tlingits of Alaska sew chinese coins acquired through trade on clothes to make a kind of chainmail, and picrel is example of that

>>63799903
resonance of fate looking ass

>>63799971
>>63800262
I always loved their aesthetic

>>63801270
Wooden Samurai

>>63801222
mrmm... Nootka...

>>63801985
S2 NEVER EVER. Hardy instead going into VIDEO GAMES.

>>63801222
Wish the guys who own it now would add more natives, if only as villages.

>>63799716 (OP)
>>63799922
This needs to be in a Souls game.

>>63800291
Depends on what part of the west coast that >>63800262 was referring to.

Natives in California for example didn't have agriculture. They took steps to manage the landscape with things like controlled burns, but they didn't plant crops because they didn't need to. The area was so resource-rich that they could take what they needed, and would switch what resources they were using depending on the season/availability.

>>63801995
>he doesn't know

>>63801251
The Russians are unironically still butthurt that the Alaska natives McMassacred aome of their settlements kek.

>>63800323
Perfecto.

weapons to counter this?

>>63804807
Is there anything the russians aren't butthurt about?

>>63799903
Oh Dear God, it's HORRIBLE. My eyes, MY EYES!

>>63806190

>>63806088
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJIiSm6sgrE

>>63806088
The fucking crocs on the ends

>>63799922
Imagine seeing one of those helmets coming out of the woods in the dark. Spooky shit.

>>63801251
Thabks chatgpt. Next time mention their stolen artillery canoes or white women rape spies.
Im sure ur famalr with white woman rape huh?

>>63799716 (OP)
>Pretty much the only natives who figured out wearing hard shit over their heads and chests when going into battle could keep them alive better
Seriously, how did no other chugs realize this?

>>63808982
Sort of got to figure most of native peoples tended to wander around from place to place doing their stuff and having to lug extra crap around for that 1% of the time you might need it was just extraneous shit
Bit like all those crappy xmas presents you get but don't want to regift because someone will get upset
The Haida didn't do that
They just went around from place to place beating the fucking shit out of other people, taking their stuff, hot bitches and went back home
>just need some stuff
>get in canoe
>go beat up some other cunts for it

It's basically hi-vis work gear for spear chuckers, except you're not there for their safety, you're the unsafety man

>>63808982
The Iroqouis did make some use of armor

>>63806418
Everything on that gun has a legitimate tactical application.

>>63801251
Yup.
>>63808952
Anon what the fuck are you talking about

>>63808982
Wooden armor is both bulky and heavy, and not everywhere had particularly good wood for it, so most just settled for hardened leather and quilted armor.

>>63799958
That kind of warfare is great for big set piece battles but not that effective at native tribe scale.
You assemble into a super compact unbeatable pike phalanx and the enemy tribe just...keeps distance and rains missiles on you from all around.
So you lose 20% of the men in your entire society to skirmisher harassment but at least they can't stop your phalanx from inexorably marching forward and conquering their capital like Alexander marching into Babylon. By which I mean you march into the smoking remains of some huts and lodges that they emptied and burned ahead of you, since they don't even farm and can basically pack up their entire society and survive out in the country or go to their nearest allies when they have to.

>>63808982
Most did - see the Iroquois example in >>63809052. We also have accounts of Aztec gambeson-like armour made of packed cotton as well. Most of these body armours were abandoned with the introduction of European firearms (in much the same fashion that Europeans also were no longer using armour). Eastern N. American and Central American tribes had a much longer history of contact/exchange with Europeans starting from the 1400s-1500s, so you have a much longer period of changes and adaptations. The West Coast was in general far more isolated in terms of scale of exchange and so much of this persisted longer.

>>63805009
>Is there anything the russians aren't butthurt about?

I once on /o/ said the Zaprozhets was a cool weird little car. It's an semi-amphibious Ukrainian car with a rear mounted V4 engine. I got spammed by multiple Russian posters about how it's a piece of shit and the Lada is better and I'm a Ukrainian faggot nazi or a British American propagandist and it was actually somehow a Russian car that Ukraine stole but everything bad about it was Ukrainian but it would be good if it was Russian. I wasn't even talking about any having to do with the war. Some of them are just legitimately deranged.

Like this Russian:
>>63808952

Who is chimping out about how the Natives mounted guns to their war canoes and wrecked a Russian trade ship and eneded up with a bunch of Russian wives because all the Russian men got blown up/shot.

>>63809037
>you're not there for their safety, you're the unsafety man

>>63799922

>>63800262
Finally, I have an excuse to post this (I've been saving it for nearly 3 days)

>>63800323
I am relieved to announce that your image didn't awaken anything new in me, sexually.

The potlatch economy was a pretty cool idea too

>>63809510
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>French

Order your Yodel Clown today!

>>63809478
Oh was that real? I was just being retarded

>>63809478
I remember seeing spam threads on /v/ about how all Ukrainian and Polish videogames are shit and Russian games are the best.
Its just neverending seething jealousy.

>>63808952
Extremely rare for Native Americans to rape white women, they considered them to be unclean, and they were right. Europeans at that period were disgusting and didn't bathe often while most tribes bathed every day. The smell would have been horrendous. Why would you ever stick your peace pipe in a filthy, hairy euro hag when you can do it with your freshly washed native GF by an open fire under the stars

>>63811221
Interesting tidbit there, Europeans used to bathe quite regularly. They also used to fuck whores at bath houses. When syphilis showed up the thing that people quickly realized was people going to bath houses (and fucking whores) had higher incident rates. They made the wrong association about how the disease spread, bathing almost disappeared for several centuries, and yuros just fucking lived with it.

>>63811344
"lived" is the operative term, because Europe was a pit of disease way beyond what its population density should have spawned. That's also why modern Europeans are resistant to many old diseases, because the sensitive ones died.

>>63799903
Borderlands 4 looking more generic than usual

>>63799958
King Kamehameha's soldiers apparently used a phalanx like formation during at least one battle, during his wars to unify the archipelago
No idea if it was an already existing tactic, if it was the idea of one of his Western advisers, if it came from his men or if he had the idea himself

>>63811490
The helmets/hats give it a very Grecian vibe.

>>63809250
English colonists of the 17th century learned some lessons about that, the solution was more swords, plenty of shields and as much surplus old chainmail you could get your hands on. Of course the natives didn't have effective extremity armor that was mobile, I agree with you about the issue with arrows and slings/thrown weapons being a problem unless you can cover the extremities in something that turns a permanent disability or fatal wound into a temporary fracture or minor injury.

>>63799716 (OP)
Why chief say he need heap big wampum to let us attach spikes to club or carry knife smaller than hand? Me thinkum day has come for Heyahoya

>>63801251
>>63809478
History Dose on Youtube (great channel, highly recommend) just published a video about the russo-Tlingit War
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDR3pJ9IBEQ
Talk about a coincidence

>>63812037
>Russo-Tlingit war

Thank you, I now have something new to make Russians angry over

>>63812090
>>63812037
>Day 67,525 of the special operation to de-Tligitize Alaska

Hoyahols are finish.... Tliнgit tranny will fall any day... two weeks to Puget sound

>>63812311
>My name is KickaBitch of the SmackaHoe tribe and I beg Chief Red Cunt to stop aid to the Tlingit Churka’s and instead focus on the Wendigo’s of the Haida!

>>63799716 (OP)
i love that this asshole (wearing a dick flute) spent years collecting coins for his gay chink-shit gambison, only to catch a musketball through the lungs

>>63812353
I am Chief Jeep Cherokee of the Ch'ry'tsler tribe. We wasting big wampum on fight with Russian bear. Needum seashells to trade for salmon instead of wasting on lacquer armor. Totem pole so short without Russian lumber.

>>63809478
>Natives mounted guns to their war canoes and wrecked a Russian trade ship and eneded up with a bunch of Russian wives because all the Russian men got blown up/shot
Huh. The Russian ineptness on water goes back even further than I thought.

>>63812592
Lies. The Russians returned to Sitka on their own power

>>63809516
That stock is awesome, holy shit.

>>63809516
I know the Haida and the Mayans both figured out how to make guns from the British. Are there any other natives that made their own guns?

>>63809516
>Remove russ bignose chief merchant
The ironworking of the western tribes was also really spectacular, the Haida and Tlingit shortswords and daggers are almost straight out of northern Renaissance Italy.
Very similar to things like the cinquedea- broad, multiple fullers and similar handle style

>>63812090
I doubt Russians even know of this anymore

>>63812311
kek

>>63812311
>Hoyahols
My sides

>>63799922
Imagine if they actually had an actual medieval society

>>63816392
How would you define a medieval society?

>>63816878
Feudalism based around an agrarian economy.
Which doesn't really seem like it would be in the cards for the tribes up north given the only lands suitable farming are high up in the valley and required a ton of front-loading to make barely viable, and that's with modern crop rotation and fertilizer.
The fact they even got to the iron age is kind of a fluke when it required them starting out with discovering meteorites and using those to build the first tools to mine the old-fashioned way.

>>63812037
>It was called...the Sapling Fort
UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU

>>63800262
The California coast natives were like a weird hybrid of south west natives and Hawaiians culturally. They built similar redwood boats.

>>63816925
Well turco-mongols didnt need feudalism to be great just iron

>>63812037
Kino

>>63799903
New kel tec looks like it finna fire straight bussin fr fr

>>63817325

I already said it,, but i'll say it again
I fucking love how they looked

>>63820936
Why doesn't any fantasy series use their look as the basis for a tribal culture? Their carved wooden armour is stylish.

I already said it and I'll say it again
I fucking love how those guys looked

>>63820947
>>63820950
Whoops, deleted my post and remade one before I saw your answer
Anyway, yeah I agree, they would look great in a fantasy seeting

>>63817325

https://youtu.be/UBVaNS2jGX4

>>63822941
Holy christ never post this shit again you fucking turbo faggot

>>63799922
The look like the Wild Things.

>>63800323
>I'm a survivor. We're a dying breed.

>>63809516
Based>>63809526

>>63816925
define feudalism

>>63813406
>he Mayans both figured out how to make guns from the British.

more info?

>>63828803
Die, killer-slayer!

>>63820950
>two richfags mocking a poorfag
/k/ never changes.

>>63799716 (OP)

pre-columbian north america had some strange warfare going on
>>63808982
false

>>63801222

>>63832220
Basically the Yucatan peninsula in Mexico separated from Mexico and the local castizos/criollos basically tried to start a proto-apartheid style system of seizing land from Mayans and reducing them to landed serfs. Mayans had already been living partly in Europeanized societies and knew how it worked simply said fuck that, and started slaughtering all the criollos and enslaved the mestizos. They had a tradition of making blow guns and copying crossbows. They then got guns from British Belize which had a Mayan minority and started making simple hand made firearms through reverse engineering. The Mayans won then got bored and the peninsula rejoined Mexico later with Mexican mestizo control, but it's the one part of Mexico where the Indigenous (Mayans) still have a lot of money and power because they didn't ever fully back down. Interesting stuff. Their art looks Asian too. Also a chunk of them are now mixed with Koreans.

>>63838109
You're talking about Chan Santa Cruz, right?

>>63839319
The Chan Santa Cruz episode was just part of the caste war.

>>63816925
It's not that they couldn't do feudalism. It's that they actively refused to do so and rejected any attempt to majorly consolidate power above the chiefdom level. There are accounts of Europeans taking natives to Europe and the natives being perplexed at why someone would willingly become a serf and make pennies while their boss would make dollars.

>>63841922
Are there any surviving specimens of Maya produced firearms from that?

>>63809052
There are more instances than the Iroquois, but it wide not wide spread as one would think

>>63799903
>useless bayonet

>>63799716 (OP)
>send smoke signals to my fellow tribesmen about my sawn off thunderstick
>bureau of firewater tobacco and thundersticks breaks into my teepee and shoots my coyote
what spirits must I pray to?

>>63843013
It's not a bayonet, it's a knife holder.

>>63843588
>what spirits must I pray to?
In dark times like this you must pray to dark things, for example the big titty skilnwalker of the painted desert or the Oklahoma Octopus

>>63843588
Thunderbird, lord of boomsticks and kick-ass cars.

>>63809532
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>>63799922
the original frog posters.

>>63799903
What in the Borderlands. Dahl-ass gun

>>63799716 (OP)
>Lettum me guessum: you needum more
Ironic because these guys were the obsessive gearqueer minmaxers supreme of all the native Americans.

If I recall it was one of them who asked every single trading ship be saw in his whole life for a cannon after he'd seen one fire once, and then when someone finally sold him one the very next day he sailed down the coast with it and shot it into another village with no warning.

>>63847389
Unfathomably based

>>63847389
>be me
>fur-trader
>hunting beaver everyday like a drunk college student
>land on some shitty island in the inner passage, looking to buy some pelts off of the natives
>one of them walks up to me quickly, has a weird look in his eyes
>thought he's about to stab me or some shit, fight or flight is on the verge of activating
>stops suddenly, and asks me if I have a cannon on my ship in creole
>lol_wut.lithograph
>reply that I do
>offers to buy it off of me
>not knowing what this retard is capable of, offer to sell it to him, but only for a truly stupid amount of furs
>think there's absolutely no way this guy could possibly have that many
>he does
>being a man of my word, sell the cannon to him, hoping to God he doesn't fire it on some colonial settlement and get both of us hanged on gibbets
>native takes cannon with a crazy, wide grin
>fast forward to tomorrow
>going through usual trading stops, when I hear a loud boom off the aft side
>grab my telescope top look at the shore and firgure out wtf is going-on
>see a Tlingit village that's on fire
>women and children are screaming and wailing
>men are running around grabbing their weapons
>chunks of flesh are all over the place smouldering among burning buildings
>and just off the shore, I see him
>that crazy injun
>in his shitty fucking canoe
>with the cannon i sold him
>mfw he had the exact same crazy wide grin as when I saw him last
god-speed you crazy red-skin

>>63846734
I miss Tim & Eric

>>63847925
Pumped-Up Moccasins

>>63799716 (OP)
Shiiit. Let's go to Anchorage and get a fucking jug

>>63799922
Mogs eastern US tribes BADLY. Those niggas didn't even have permanent settlements after Cahokia fell.

>>63848504
Much like the urbane parts of the Roman Empire, building tall in the RL 4X is always destined to fail, given enough time.

>>63848504
Yes they did. The De Soto expedition encountered several mound-building chiefdoms when they crossed Appalachia in the 1500's, who dealt the Spaniards worse death tolls than the Aztecs. One of the bloodiest fights on US soil occurred when De Soto entered a chiefdom ruled by a strikingly tall Chief (who the modern city of Tuscaloosa is named after), attempted to kidnap/ransom him, and was subsequently lead into a massive ambush at a fort settlement named Mabila.

Mesoamerican (Aztec, Maya etc) history anon here, will try to reply to shit tommorow

if anybody wants to ask questions in advance feel free

>>63848504
Yes they did. The De Soto expedition encountered several mound-building chiefdoms when they crossed Appalachia in the 1500's, who dealt the Spaniards worse death tolls than the Aztecs. One of the bloodiest fights on US soil occurred when De Soto entered a chiefdom ruled by a strikingly tall Chief (who the modern city of Tuscaloosa is named after), attempted to kidnap/ransom him, and was subsequently lead into a massive ambush at a fort settlement named Mabila.

>>63850827

>>63850795
In a fight between a pre-contact Mesoamerican city-state and a post-contact Tlingit tribe, who do you think would win? My money's on the city-state due to their more complex organization and tactics, but it would definitely be tough due to the technological edge the Tlingit have (guns, coin chain-mail, iron-working, etc.).

>>63811344
many of the worst diseases Eurasia went through are a result of agriculture (eg. smallpox originated in cows). Animals were often brought to market in overcrowded cities which helped transmit the disease to humans. Also the idea that people didn't bathe is t entirely true. Having a full bath was rare, because heating a large amount of clean water was expensive. However people did wash themselves regularly with a wash basin. Still dirty by today's standards but it's not like they intentionally wallowed in their own filth.

>>63801270
This is like something out of The Last Airbender

>>63799903
The fucking lever is what does it for me.

>>63848504
>>63850827
It's sad there isn't more left of the Mississippian cities, especially Cahokia
North America could have its very own Chichén Itzá or Machu Picchu

>>63850795
What North American native civilization had the most potential to become a civilization on par with what we saw in mesoamerica or South America? The Iroquois?

>>63853688
they were mostly nomadic because of weather and resources

the ones that werent had become feudal with their neighbors because again, resources

it was on the tier of shouganate tribal warfare on small scale to the scale of about 500 soldiers raiding

you think they got their "scalp collection" and "heart eating" habits after europeans landed?

>>63853742
Iroquois didn't figure out fertilizer so, despite using the Three Sisters to great effect, they still had to move every 20 years or so due to soil depletion. They were close to evolve beyond chiefdom in the social policy tree.

>>63799903
For me, it's the cylinder being backwards, or the toggle switch between auto and buckshot.

I miss these little guys like you wouldn't believe anons

>>63855104
Instead of feral homeless, we could have these rn in the pnw

>>63853675
Look like they were on the verge of motte and bailey fortresses.

>>63842386
b-based?????

>>63847925

>>63855646
There's nothing stopping homeless people from putting on trashbags and animals masks ya know

Aside from violence men are useless

>>63800323
I love Xavierposting so much
>>63809516
That's so fucking cool

>>63801222
>shiggum diggum

>>63850795
What do you know about the weapons/tactics of peoples that resisted the Incans, such as the Chachapoyas and the Cayambe in Ecuador?

I refuse to let this thread die, there's so much more to talk about when it comes to indigenous warfare
>>63850795
Aztec anon, where are you? You still have questions to answer

>>63799716 (OP)

>>63859115
What is your image depicting?

>>63860061
NTA, but looks like Bonglos assaulting Maori.

>>63859207
Go get fucked BBC spammer

>>63855646
in Canada they became the feral homeless

>>63820950
>Native American with a mustache
huh

The development of Red Indian civilization is honestly impressive when you consider that Eurasia had a 30,000 year head start on them and yet they managed to make neolithic civilizations and even bronze age tier empires only a couple thousand years after they emerged in Asia and the Levant

>>63853688
Definitely the Mississippians. They had the perfect geographical setup for the emergence of an early state civilization and also indirect access to Mesoamerica for technological advances. In time they might have started trading with the Mesoamericans via the Gulf of Mexico.

If you want to compare them with old world civilizations, the Mesoamericans were like the Egyptians/Babylonians, the Mississippians were like that Danubian civilization with proto-writing that collapsed during the PIE migrations and the Iroquois were like those neolithic farmers in Germany who spent all their time raiding and cannibalizing each other

>>63799716 (OP)
How much of the native tribes being savages is true and how much is just the colonists dehumanising them as a justification. I've got no doubt that a good number of them were peaceful but it wouldn't surprise me if some were genuinely ultraviolent and killed anyone who wasn't one of them

>>63863573
People are people everywhere, nigga. Natives conquered and enslaved just like everyone else and considered it the natural order of things until it happened to them.

>>63863573
>How much of the native tribes being savages is true and how much is just the colonists dehumanising them as a justification
one of the first group of natives English colonists ever encountered, the Powhatans, would ritually torture captives to demonstrate their spiritual superiority. Even if there were plenty of natives that were fairly nice, it's pretty hard to live down a first impression like that.

>>63856832

>>63863573
It's silly to think any human society were wholly or mostly either violent savages or peaceful hippies: both conflict and compassion are universal, different cultures just express those things in different ways, in different contexts, or to different degrees

>>63861780
>like that Danubian civilization with proto-writing
Erm, what

>>63811490
Hawaiian weapons look violent
I wonder how sharp shark teeth are

>>63869178
It's more about the serrations. Rather than the clean slices and chops of glass weapons, these boys would tear and bleed each other to death.

>>63865614
Vinča civilization had a proto-writing system. the same symbols are found on many different artefacts

>>63869795
Is this loss?

>>63809052
>Malcolm PL
he's a good dude, even if his butthurt kinda permeates most of his stuff
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qmkQS8_MODE&list=PLpvYyTS5dFKE_R_toZT5cQipCMF-S0I2G
He thinks most societies that "didn't have armour" probably had wooden armour, but it wasn't recorded or preserved before muskets made it wholly obsolete, and I honestly think I agree with him

>>63860101
This unfortunately
I'm unironically a fan of chug culture despite this

>>63860101
>>63871837
Why are so many tribes driven to alcoholism?

>>63871871
IIRC native metabolism is horrible for alcohol absorption, and euro settlers sold them vast quantities of the stuff, either because that's what they had on hand for trade or to deliberately make everyone an addict and destroy the tribe from the inside

>>63871915
Good old limey business acumen strikes again.

>>638718710
What you mostly need to understand is that they basically suffered a complete apocalypse. Their whole world was destroyed. Their whole knowledge of how life works and how to live totally and completely destroyed.
And this happened RIGHT as alcohol was introduced to most of them
Many naturally turned to drink, and one generation taught alcoholism to the next and so on and so forth and it persists to this day
Even genetic tests have shown that they have no unnatural predisposition to it; its just the result of being from a totally shattered culture
Putting myself in their shoes I think I and my descendants would also all turn to alcohol

>>63871921
meant for >>63871921

>>63871871
Understand that they basically suffered a complete and total apocalypse with few survivors. Their whole world was destroyed. Their whole knowledge of how life works and how to live totally and completely destroyed.
And this happened RIGHT as alcohol was introduced to most of them
Many naturally turned to drink, and one generation taught alcoholism to the next and so on and so forth and it persists to this day
Even genetic tests have shown that they have no unnatural predisposition to it; its just the result of being from a totally shattered culture
Putting myself in their shoes I think I and my descendants would also all turn to alcohol

>>63808982
Armor only really develops once warfare turns into a centralized, organized business.
When you're dealing with tribals raiding their neighbors, you have low-effort, low-intensity shit like:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JI4uirwxx1Y

But then, when you're dealing with inhumane monsters like the Iroquois, whose legacy is mostly their brutality and love of suffering, you inevitably do find them using simple armor, even though they have no centralization or real civilization. They just loved making others suffer so much, they optimized it on a dispersed, chaotic level.

>>63871871
Because the natives are a lesser race that never developed past hunting and gathering. Fundamentally, North American Indians for the most part were and still are, a race of undeveloped losers.
They never experienced the fruits of organized agriculture, nor did they go through the centuries of selection pushing bloodlines into adapting into civilized manners of existence, with all the vices therein.

>>63871940
>Putting myself in their shoes I think I and my descendants would also all turn to alcohol
You would not, because you come from a race that's inherently adapted to not only agricultural, but also industrial, civilization.
The Native Americans are the equivalent of Yamnaya primitives.

>>63871972
>You would not, because you come from a race that's inherently....
Hence why I wrote "putting myself in their shoes", learn to fucking read.
Imagine if Aryan aliens (Aryaliens) who shared a rough ancestry with us but spend most of their leisure time cultivating Vril came to earth tomorrow, and spent the next three decades destroying our governments, replacing them all with one where the man with the most orgone energy wins (regular earthmen cannot accumulate this), and rapidly supplanting our economy with one where the base form of labour is intercepting errant electrons from the background radiation of the universe using ones spiritual power coupled and that the common nutrient source from now on could only delivered intravenously and that the closest thing to a currency of exchange was social credit good-boy points which were directly stored as happy thoughts in ones mind, and that the only official language of business going forward is proto-proto-indoeuropean and you'll have a rough idea of how great the societal change was when Europeans colonized the Americas
With that all in mind, now imagine they introduce Super-Nicotine Aryalien Firewater to Earth, and it becomes easier to see how this sort of thing could become an intergenerational problem

>>63871972
Ok John Ratcliffe

>>63871972
>You would not, because you come from a race that's inherently adapted to not only agricultural, but also industrial, civilization.
We aren't
agriculture is a near-eastern thing; and industrial civilization is a wretched abomination. If you are of European descent you are best adapted for a nomadic pastoral lifestyle with SOME cereal gathering (just to brew some soma) and NOTHING else

>>63872039
>Hence why I wrote "putting myself in their shoes", learn to fucking read.
Putting yourself in their shoes does not imply you lose your own mind like that, it means that you imagine what YOU would do, if you were in their situation. It's not about trying to imagine yourself as being the exact same as they are, it's about imagining yourself as being in the same SITUATION. Nothing more than that.
>Imagine if Aryan aliens (Aryaliens) who shared a rough ancestry with us but spend most of their leisure time cultivating Vril came to earth tomorrow, and spent the next three decades destroying our governments, replacing them all with one where the man with the most orgone energy wins (regular earthmen cannot accumulate this), and rapidly supplanting our economy with one where the base form of labour is intercepting errant electrons from the background radiation of the universe using ones spiritual power coupled and that the common nutrient source from now on could only delivered intravenously and that the closest thing to a currency of exchange was social credit good-boy points which were directly stored as happy thoughts in ones mind, and that the only official language of business going forward is proto-proto-indoeuropean and you'll have a rough idea of how great the societal change was when Europeans colonized the Americas
I would laugh at the downfall of dysfunctional, retarded civilization.
>With that all in mind, now imagine they introduce Super-Nicotine Aryalien Firewater to Earth, and it becomes easier to see how this sort of thing could become an intergenerational problem
No, it doesn't. We already have our own drugs to use. Why would anyone go for the Aylmaao shit, when you can just drink booze, shoot up heroin, eat some subutex or whatever.
We already have a culture of narcotics, why would a foreign one overwhelm us in any way?

>>63872050
Whoever that man is, he clearly understood Native Americans.

>>63869178
Kinda related but the Kiribati used a shit ton of shark teeth in their weaponry, to the point where a fair few shark species became locally extinct around the Gilbert Islands from over hunting for teeth. I haven’t been able to find the picture for it but I remember years ago seeing examples of shark tooth embedded cestus like hand armour used by them

>>63871972
>centuries of selection pushing bloodlines into adapting into civilized manners of existence, with all the vices therein.

i hate when losers put on their ozymandias voice when talking about how cool their ancestors are.

>>63872093
My ancestors are a bunch of schizophrenia spectrum farmers on my mother's side, and fishermen as well as sailors on my father's side.
There's fuck-all to be proud of in my family.
This whole attitude of yours:
>i hate when losers put on their ozymandias voice when talking about how cool their ancestors are.
Is more a reflection of yourself than it is of me.

>>63872063
>Putting yourself in their shoes does not imply you lose your own mind like that, it means that you imagine what YOU would do, if you were in their situation. It's not about trying to imagine yourself as being the exact same as they are, it's about imagining yourself as being in the same SITUATION. Nothing more than that.
Where am I losing my mind? If I were in their shoes-- that to say, if I were to have lived their experience, from pre-contact to contact to, lets at least say a few decades post-contact, I would probably be shattered by such a dramatic change in my way of life
If you were to take me right now as I am and just put me immediately post-contact, yeah no shit nothing would fucking change, but if I were in the shoes of someone who had my whole world changed in such a manner, as any reasonable person would have assumed I meant when reading my post, yeah I would probably have some issues
>I would laugh at the downfall of our retarded civilization
Sure, but having a laugh about it is nice, but It wouldn't exempt you from still needing to find a way to keep living in this suddenly changed world; unless you were planning to go down with the old civilization's ship you would still have to adapt to life in New Aryanearth
>No, it doesn't. We already have our own shit
The natives already had nicotine and various forms of caffeine, and had a fairly extensive culture of consumption for them-- liquor was something extremely novel and potent.
If Aryanaliens, who now control the largest aspects of our society introduced something novel and more potent to us; and by way of their new colonial presence here made it readily accessible, people would certainly take to it as well, regardless of how much we enjoyed booze or heroin before. Look at crack to blacks, HRT to programmers, fent to blue collar workers etc new waves of addiction could happen to any group with the introduction of any new drug.

>>63799903
>tfw no silenced, compensated, box-fed double-barrel lever bullpup

>>63872143
>Where am I losing my mind? If I were in their shoes-- that to say, if I were to have lived their experience, from pre-contact to contact to, lets at least say a few decades post-contact, I would probably be shattered by such a dramatic change in my way of life
If you were to take me right now as I am and just put me immediately post-contact, yeah no shit nothing would fucking change, but if I were in the shoes of someone who had my whole world changed in such a manner,
It still would not match the natives' experiences, because the definition of what you ARE is genetic and entirely different from what they themselves were.
>as any reasonable person would have assumed I meant when reading my post, yeah I would probably have some issues
Do you feel better about yourself, calling others unreasonable (idiots) indirectly like this, while you yourself show no capabilities of reasoning?
>The natives already had nicotine and various forms of caffeine,
Oh, so they didn't actually have any narcotics? Thanks for confirming it for me. Why are you arguing against yourself, again?
>If Aryanaliens, who now control the largest aspects of our society introduced something novel and more potent to us; and by way of their new colonial presence here made it readily accessible, people would certainly take to it as well, regardless of how much we enjoyed booze or heroin before. Look at crack to blacks, HRT to programmers, fent to blue collar workers etc new waves of addiction could happen to any group with the introduction of any new drug.
This argument is entirely fallacious and wrong, as the vast majority of humans in our modern societies CHOOSE not to partake in heroin, or crack, or fent or trannyism, (are you tranny?). Even alcohol abuse is going down.
This Ayylmao drug would just be another substance to abuse, that the majority of people would choose not to partake in.

>>63871940
>>63871871
>>63871915
>>63871972

Amerindians had less widespread ingestion of refined carbs compared to Eurasians. Refined carbs and sugars overload our systems and either cause an sugar shock or overreaction to alcohol. The flipside is our diets handle certain sugars much better and we can just eat pure fat and high meat diets with little or no cardiovascular issues whatsoever. Most of my family lives into their late 90s and early 100s and all eat red meat 2 out of 3 meals and have small amounts of hard liquor daily. All have been pretty healthy right up till the end.

>>63872168
>it would be a different experience
Certainly anon, because I myself am not literally a chug-- what I was referring to in my original post, was that if I myself were experiencing a change to my life of the same caliber as was experienced by the natives, I might react in a similar way.
>Do I feel better calling you an idiot
Not at all, because it has apparently done nothing to encourage your comprehension of my original post, where the situation of "world is one way->massive shake up->world changed forever" was intending to be the sort of situation I was describing myself imagining myself in. You accuse me of having to capacity to reason, but where is yours to empathize? Or even your capacity to understand that I have been trying describe my own empathy for the chug? Its a capability your average (i.e. reasonable) person develops around 1.5-2 years of age btw
>"erm... so you're saying they DIDN'T t have narcotics?" he asked very basedly
Alcohol is not a narcotic either retard, and getting hung up on this specific word is missing the forest for the trees
>This argument is entirely fallacious and wrong
This Ayylmao drug would just be another substance to abuse, that the majority of people would choose not to partake in.
The vast majority of society, as it sits at this moment, has not been subjected to the same sorts of devastating, uprooting change that chug society was-- you would have to see our society go through something like the "Aryalien" hypothetical for it to be as affected as chug society was at the time that this hot new addictive drug was introduced. Even so, the vast majority of society doesn't need to take a drug for it to become a problem, and not every single native started drinking either before it became a problem in their society either. It's not their whole problem either, but the big world-shattering changes certainly exacerbated their adoption of alcoholism.

>>63872364
Continuing on, if you want a less "fallacious" example of a new drug randomly running rampant, think about the "mother's ruin" in the UK-- fairly potent spirits start making in big in the domestic market during the middle of the industrial revolution, and you have pretty widespread and devastating alcoholism.
Now imagine that, or something like the crack epidemic amongst ameriniggers, coupled with merchants who were more than willing to exploit the substance's properties to sell more of it (as we saw with the Chinks and Opium) to a group of societies which were rapidly, and totally collapsing; can you not imagine that an ordinary man going through that sort of thing might just be a little bit more susceptible to taking up an addictive substance for reasons other than biological race?
I'm not deny that there might be a racial, biological component to chug alcoholism, or that they are anything but an inferior race but set of circumstances surrounding the introduction of alcohol to the Americas could have caused the problem on its own.
If they didn't, they at least carried a lot of the weight for causing native alcoholism-- if we never did anything to the chugs with the exception of trading them liquor. they'd still be heyohoyaing no problem.
Saying its their alcoholism is only because of their race and not their entire society's destruction is sort of like saying lead plumbing caused the Roman Empire to collaps,e its retard-tier pop history.

>>63799922
This could be us

>>63872105
NTA but it's a stupidly arrogant and ill informed take. I don't care how much I get painted as a liberal but anyone who believes in racial superiority/inferiority needs to get their brain tested and pick up a book

>>63863579
I'm only asking because of the conversation earlier where people were saying how the natives in some aspects were more civilised than European colonists. Since that goes against the whole narrative of primitive tribes that barely had a functioning society of their own I was curious how true that belief was additionally in that case

>>63863579
I'm only asking because of the conversation earlier where people were saying how the natives in some aspects were more civilised than European colonists. Since that goes against the whole narrative of primitive tribes that barely had a functioning society of their own I was curious how true that belief was additionally in that case.
Wasn't asking for some whataboutism on slavery

>>63871972
Counterpoint: the natives adapted to firearms usage much faster than the eastern Europeans, to the point they were armed with more modern weapons by the time the frontier closed than most of the Balkans.

>>63869178
>>63872092
I find it fascinating how cultures with small amount of resources managed to make some pretty elaborate stuff with the little they had, Humans are an ingenious bunch

>>63811490
>>63869178
Kamehameha's wars tu unify the Hawaiian archipelago are very interesting to study, especially the military aspect of the unification
The man was one of those rare providential figures who had a deep impact on History thanks to their numerous personal qualities
He didn't take shit from foreigners but was also willing to learn from them and trade with them
He acquired and equiped his men with gunpowder weapons and surrounded himself with Western advisors who teached them how to use them
>At one point during his endeavour to unite all of the Hawaiian archipelago under his rule, King Kamehameha the Great had to fight his enemies in a large and decisive naval battle in the year 1791.
>Kamehameha mobilized his fleet, and they encountered the enemy forces off the coast of the island of Hawaiʻi (the Big Island). By that time, the King had already been trading for some time with the Western powers sailing across the North Pacific. He decided that guns and cannon were more effective firearms than spears and slings; the white man’s vessels too were better than canoes in taking the war to the enemy.
>Kamehameha's fleet was thus made up of canoes with mounted canons and at least one Western ship, the Fair American, a captured vessel. Men on both sides were also equipped with muskets. The roar and the flash of the gunnery used by the warring parties earned the battle the name Kepūwaha‘ula‘ula (Battle of the Red-Mouthed Canon).
>Many of the enemy's canoes were sunk, and those that survived had nowhere to go upon reaching land. Kamehameha’s navy was victorious, and the King was therefore able to pursue his dream of unifying the islands.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kamehameha_I
http://www.hawaiianwarfare.com/pages/battles-big-island/hamakua.php
https://www.usni.org/magazines/proceedings/1945/november/army-and-navy-kamehameha-i

>>63873918
The Inuit/Eskimos are a prime example of this. Their predecessors in the arctic, the Dorset, just fished from iceholes and clubbed seals and then come along this new culture that's fully minmaxxed to exploit marine mammals for food, fuel, building material and tools. They made kayaks from fucking whale bone and seal skin to hunt more whales and seals with toggle harpoons that were also made from bone

>>63874924
also, relevant to this thread, they are thought to have introduced the bow and arrow to the Americas from Eurasia

>>63863573
From what I've heard, a facet of prominent encountered tribes had this idea that the principal of mandom was to capture a man in battle, torture him to death, and if he doesn't make a sound or show discomfort and fear during it, he's pretty cool and the world's just a better place because of it.

>>63801222
>tehgeese
>bathtubwalk

>>63800262
>>63800271
My favorite thing about the PNW tribes is that even though they had life on easy mode with such abundant food sources, they still managed to invent income inequality and slavery. Humans sure are funny.

>>63865588
>mostly either violent savages or peaceful hippies
Didn't mean it like that I meant since others were talking about them actually being civilised I wasn't sure if it was those same tribes that people would also paint as savages

>needum you morrum
Ftfy

>>63853675
What happened to Cahokia anyways?
Like I heard that natives had been through one apocalypse after the europeans brought diseases which utterly wrecked the continent in many places before any settler even came near, but was this city before that? Did they have another apocalyptic event?

>>63881381
Cahokia fell long before any European set foot on the continent, but nobody knows for sure why
This video talks about the different theories on the subject, and on the History of the city in general
The channel overall is great
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iciOvaIm51M

>>63881473
Based Ancient Americas enjoyer

>>63883036
What do you think that shell felt like? I wish we lived in a timeline where the natives managed to domesticate them.

>>63874954

No, the Indians had the bow from their arrival in the Americas.

>>63863573
Trends somewhat towards the dehumanization end. Keep in mind European war in the 1500s-1600s is pretty savage as well in the context of religious warfare, widespread pillage/rape, armies "foraging" for supplies, desecrating symbols of the other religion, etc. There's dehumanization of other religious movements and other nationalities aplenty.

>>63850795
>>63850795
>>63850795
I apologize for not following up on this, I have been busy and still am, but I have not forgotten about the thread

>>63861722
Indigenous Americans could grow facial hair, it's just not as common as for Europeans, both due to genetics and from cultural customs around getting rid of or preventing it's growth.

EX: In Mesoamerica, generally only the elderly or rulers kept beards and mustaches, other people plucked the hair out (or I assume sometimes shaved, but plucking is mentioned more), and/or prevented it's growth via heat treatments. So if you see people trying to point to murals, sculptures, etc of people with facial hair from Mesoamerica or the Andes as evidence of some conspiracy or European contact, know that they're making a big deal out of something entirely normal

>>63883801
Nope, they used atl-atls

>>63887192
>EX: In Mesoamerica, generally only the elderly or rulers kept beards and mustaches, other people plucked the hair out (or I assume sometimes shaved, but plucking is mentioned more), and/or prevented it's growth via heat treatments. So if you see people trying to point to murals, sculptures, etc of people with facial hair from Mesoamerica or the Andes as evidence of some conspiracy or European contact, know that they're making a big deal out of something entirely normal
IIRC the Mohawk plucked the hairs individually from both their face and hair to get the signature hairstyle as a show of manliness because a real man would not wince in pain or cry while getting hundreds of individual hair follicles get torn out in a single sitting
Another fun Injun custom was among the Plains tribes a belief that breathing air through your mouth was impure, and that one should always inhale through the nostrils and exhale through the mouth.

>>63890504
Most NA Injuns also used a common sign language to trade/conduct diplomacy to make up for the fact that they all spoke wildly different languages with completely independent vocabularies. I think there were regional variants used in the PNW and east coast but it was mainly used on the Plains and its peripheries.

The vid below is a 1930s recording of US ret. General Hugh L. Scott who BTFO out of all these guys in the Ghost Dance & Nez Perce wars making them flap their hands around for the vidya camera for posterity:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfT2a5SGDFA

>>63890504
>one should always inhale through the nostrils and exhale through the mouth.
This is also the correct way to breath when running or performing strenous static load movements, and is commonly taught as a meditative practice, it is proven to lower blood pressure, percieved stress, anxiety as well as improve lung capacity and efficency. It's rehab 101 for COPD and similar lung diseases

>>63850795
Bix túun dude! Any tips or tricks on picking-up indigenous girls? I don't care about specific Injun types I dig all red-skins. They're so docile and tight! Can you hook me up?

>>63811490
>>63869178
>>63873976
For anons who would like to learn more about King Kamehameha the Great and the unification of Hawaii, I highlr recommend wtching those videos, they're great
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4fFvFt1kCsk&t=4s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yIfgic6W09Y&t=100s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lY8c8jDPSgE
Also Jason Momoa produced a TV series taking place during this period, it'll be out soon on Apple TV
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-VIAsu_G7so

>>63891326
I'm a history/archeology nerd, not someone with a race fetish, so not really, sorry/

>>63847389
>and then when someone finally sold him one the very next day he sailed down the coast with it and shot it into another village with no warning.
Based.

>>63801348
Ironically looks extremely similar to very ancient japanese wooden armor

>>63890535
perfect reaction image material

>>63898266