Possibly the most FUDed gun topic of all time.
So I've spent the past 24 hrs doing research on this given that I'm going inna woods.
My conclusions:
>Any modern handgun will stop a grizzly if you hit the brain. (or heart or spine)
>No modern handgun except extremely powerful meme rounds will RELIABLY stop a grizzly with body shots.

Larger calibers offer no real advantage given that you still need a headshot, spine or heart shot.
the 10mm reddit woods glock offers no advantage over a standard 9mm given that both will work on the brain and be fundamentally useless anywhere else.
So,
>to maximize survival carry a long gun
>if you don't wanna carry a lung git gud at headshots
Am I missing something?

>>63811142 (OP)
Yes breaking news, OP is gay.
You won't even encounter a bear anyway because you'll never touch grass, and this is all a fantasy for you destined to no follow-through.
In the incredibly off chance that you do encounter a grizzly, I hope it eats you.

>>63811142 (OP)
This debate is retarded on the surface. If you actually want to stop a bear attack, you use defense spray

>>63811167
goodnight sir

>>63811155
How rare do you thing bears are kek

>>63811195
Pretty rare inside.
They're also not all that aggressive unless you surprise them.

>>63811142 (OP)
If you shoot a bear in the head and it doesn't penetrate, doesn't it still ring it's fuckin bell? It won't get dizzy, fall over, vomit, any of that?

>>63811142 (OP)
>Am I missing something?
Experience shooting animals with guns.

Large calibers make bigger holes that make an animal bleed to death faster. That's important in hunting. For instant incapacitation, only penetration and shot placement matter. So I would say your analysis is correct, 9mm is probably better than 10 for bear defense if you're not going to carry 3" slugs or something.

>>63811142 (OP)
personally, I'll carry a S&W 500 and be certain that if necessary I can also beat the bear to death with my gun. If five rounds of .500 isn't enough to bring down the bear, I'm fighting megafauna.

>>63812464
If you fire five rounds of 500 you will never hear anything again for the rest of your life. I would sooner carry a sword.

>>63812303
>and it doesn't penetrate
He fell for the impenatrable skull meme

>>63811142 (OP)
Bruh, multiple cases, 9mm and 45acp drop bears if you mag dump them.

Just carry some xtreme penetrators when in the woods either 9mm or 45acp work fine.

You don't need a shotgun or some Smith and Wesson 500 for bearsn

>>63811142 (OP)
There was this elaborate, lengthy blog post from a combat medic who had a civilian medic job in a big city with loots of shootouts and also served in the sandbox.
He had a little book in which he wrote down every incident he ever responded to, which at the time was in the hundreds.
His takeaway was, people shot with a pistol have 90% survival rate, people shot with 5.56 have a 50% survival rate, people shot with 7.62 are usually dead by the time he shows up and he calls a coroner.
Lesson is pretty clear, with a handgun shot placement is everything, with 5.56 you play lottery because it's such a tiny round, and with 7.62 as long as you're roughly center mass it's gonna be dead because you put a baseball sized temporary wound cavity into it and ripped up SOMETHING important in the process FOR SURE.
This is only news to people here because apparently everyone here is 12 and it's their 2nd day on the internet after dad took them to the gun range the first time.

>>63811142 (OP)
Would you please share the cases you researched where bears were confirmed hit in the body and did not stop attacking, vs the cases where they did?

>>63812672
Which 7.62? 5.56 is measurably more effective than 7.62x39.

Just use a drone and program it to scan 3d geometry and charge towards anything that looks like a bear, with AI assisted geometry scanning it's easier than ever, welcome to the future boomer.

>>63811142 (OP)
Imagine if a bear on all fours like the picture was shot center mass with a rifle. All the vital organs are lined up, unlike a human. I think that would do major damage.

>>63811195
He's saying you're not going to go outside and you're just beating your gums like a dude. You aint a real cowboy.

>>63812781
Comparing the best rounds on the market vs each other 7.62x39 has the advantage, if you’re comparing what you’re most likely to find in the average person’s gun, sure, but properly loaded and constructed 7.62x39 fucks.

>>63812898
AK47 is a glorified PCC

The issue isn't about killing the thing, it's about stopping it. Sure, a headshot or heart shot will do the trick, but unless you're hunting you're not gonna get the chance to aim perfectly at the brain or heart. You're usually encountering bears when you're well within their sprinting distance, meaning they'll be on you long before they're dead unless it's a perfect shot. And sure, they'll EVENTUALLY kill the bear, but it's a question of how mauled you're going to be by the time it stops moving.

Big rounds offer stopping power, as in the force they're hitting the bear with is enough to physically stop its forward movement, even if for just a split second. It's why I use a Desert Eagle .44 for my bear gun.

Lastly, the bit about spine shots is surprisingly not true. I live in rural Alaska, and a guy had to shoot a bear that was attacking his dog in my neighborhood recently. The thing tanked 7 shots before it died. One or two of those were directly to the spine and it was still crawling around fairly quickly before it finally took the final shot. Dude was using a .308 Winchester to shoot it.

>>63812781
Do i look like a fucking commie to you?
We shoot 7.62 real fucking NATO dude.

>>63811142 (OP)
For me, it's 12 gauge magnum rifled slugs in a handgun. Just fuck my wrist up.

>>63812781
Fuck off

>>63812672
https://youtu.be/l9nGB8cK1HM

>>63812929
2/10 made me reply

>>63812464
A bear is megafauna. You are megafauna.

>>63811142 (OP)
couldnt you just give them treatos and become friends with the bear? bears are just really big forest doggos when you think about it.

9mm automatic pistol with 15 round mag is all you need. Give your wife and/or kids the bear spray.

I use mossberg shockwave with breneke slugs because I am a cucknadian, although I imagine if I ever have to use it I'll be deaf with a broken wrist (and probably eaten).

>>63811142 (OP)
If you're gonna take a gun with you why not just a fucking 12 gauge?

>>63811142 (OP)
The only real thing you're missing is that you don't have to have a heart or brain shot. Bears in general don't seem to be a fan of anything that can reach deep enough to penetrate vital organs in the chest cavity. On the one hand this does support the fact that surprisingly anemic calibers can be very effective bear deterrents, although you'll want to avoid shot lines with too much bone or that are too oblique. The only post mortems I've seen from a bear shot with hard cast 9mm showed penetration ending at the opposite side ribs on only some shots, and those were simple and fairly straight line ones directly striking the chest cavity. On the other hand it also means that the shot placement needed isn't as exact as you're claiming and moderately more powerful calibers like 10mm and .357 magnum can open up more shot lines to make those acceptably adequate shots to dissuade a bear. Overall I think 9mm is unironically the best bear caliber for 90% of people when it comes to handguns, but 10mm and .357 magnum do legitimately have a place for those who ACTUALLY shoot them enough to perform adequately with them under pressure. Meanwhile I consider anything .44 magnum and up silly, too much power to be shot well enough, not enough power outside of full on meme shit to actually impress a bear, if you want more then get something shoulder fired at this point.

>>63811142 (OP)
is there a teuller drill/21ft rule for bears? assuming the purpose of a "bear gun" is to defend against bear attack, what's the acceptable time to deter or incapacitate a bear before it reaches you?
I assume the rules here are to start shooting once the threat of attack is clear, and that you only win if the bear is dead, incapacitated/dying, or runs away before reaching you. so much time/distance do you typically have to achieve that? is that enough that magdumping with 9mm, 45, whatever "normal" cartridge will actually hurt the thing enough to stop?
any bearanons ITT, I want answers

>>63815524
I've seen such a drill before, involving a grizzly bear target on a track that accelerates from a fixed distance to the shooter at a bear rate of speed. Think some guy who did bear defence classes came up with the thing. Seen some variations on it too. Don't remember the name though

>>63815594
unfortunately I don't think there's a great way to test terminal effectiveness in that time without unit 731'ing a lot of bears.
but I've read so many conflicting accounts on how tough a bear is that I do kind of doubt any ability to stop it inside of say, 30 yards or so. maybe you'll cause it enough pain that it will leave, but I really don't know

>>63815606
I thought you were asking for a shooting practice drill. As far as terminal ballistics go we can only go off of real world results, that would indicate that anything 9mm and up loaded with FMJ or more deeply penetrating ammo is an effective tool for bears assuming decent shot placement. It isn't really a theoretical, that's what the real world results say from bear attacks where handguns were used. We can of course take that a step further, if FMJ in those calibers is effective then rounds penetrating as much or more in a control medium(ex ballistics gelatin) should be effective as well given the same constraints. You're right when it comes to getting firm results of just how effective they are compared to each other, but "will most likely stop a bear if placed decently" isn't a massive hurdle really.

>>63815648
Thanks for the drill, I was looking for that as well. I was just trying to pose some questions about the combined factors of both training and effectiveness on the target. Where the timing aspect came in was trying to add in the consideration that the animal needs to be stopped now, not later, and it seemed like some other anons ITT were doing a poor job of considering that. I'll have to read more accounts/reports of handgun defense against bear attack.
Thanks anon

imagine wanting to shoot this

>>63811142 (OP)
Bonded bullets

>>63811267
What if the bear surprises you?

>>63812303
The biggest grizzly kill ever recorded was done in by .22 long to the skull. Not .22LR, .22 Long.

>>63816164
He's okay, it's his relatives who want to remove my face and scalp from my head I'm a bit more concerned of.

>>63816188
>What if the bear surprises you?
Like with a birthday present?

>>63811142 (OP)
>My report on the Grizzly handgun issue
2nd amendment defends the right to bear arms

>>63816289
Most bear encounters that go south typically involve the hunter/hiker accidentally stumbling upon the bear and surprising/angering it.

>>63811167
>you use defense spray
Great way to get mauled. That shit works on curious black bears, grizzlys are going to fuck you up for it when you should have just shot the bastard.

>>63816358
When that happens you're supposed to raise your hands above your head and shout "RRRAAAAAAHHHHHH GET OUT OF HERE BEAR! GET OUT OF HERE BEAR! RRRRAAAAAHHHH!"

It works, I've had to do it to black bears in the smokies before.

>>63812672
>people shot with 7.62 are usually dead by the time he shows up and he calls a coroner.
Fake and gay
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockton_schoolyard_shooting

>>63816358
>Most bear encounters that go south typically involve the hunter/hiker accidentally stumbling upon the bear and surprising/angering it.
No. This is just most bear encounters are usually stumbling in it. Most encounters that "go south" are hunters who have killed big game and while cutting the animal up get mauled by a bear that wants the meat. In many occasions, they wound an animal and the bear will finish the animal off and then the hunter finds it and the bear is defending the kill.

>>63818751
>I've had to do it to black bears
Cute kid...

>>63815178
http://www.ciar.org/ttk/mbt/papers/misc/paper.x.small-arms.wounding-ballistics.patterns_of_military_rifle_bullets.fackler.unk.html
>Soviet 7.62x39mm
>The typical path through the abdomen caused minimal disruption; holes in organs were similar to those caused by a non-hollow-point handgun bullet.
>The average uncomplicated thigh wound was about what one would expect from a low-powered handgun:
PCC confirmed >>63812929
How slavshit lovers would ever recover?

>>63818760
Kill yourself pedo

>>63811142 (OP)
>10mm reddit woods glock offers no advantage over a standard 9mm given that both will work on the brain and be fundamentally useless anywhere else.
Anon, whether the bear bleeds out enough, to not have energy left to maul you anymore, in 30 seconds or 60 seconds could mean the difference between life and death.

If all you cared for was going for headshots, then why not carry only .22?

>>63818774
>you're supposed to raise your hands above your head and shout "RRRAAAAAAHHHHHH GET OUT OF HERE BEAR! GET OUT OF HERE BEAR! RRRRAAAAAHHHH!"

>It works, I've had to do it to black bears in the smokies before.
>Kill yourself pedo
Preddit spacing by you... Raise your arms for me and say rawwrr and I'll take your picture.

>>63813712
>stopping power
Someone with a 9mm can shoot an entire Bill Drill in the time you get off 2 shots of
.44.

>>63813712
>stopping power
Retard detected
>the force they're hitting the bear with is enough to physically stop its forward movement
Retard confirmed

>>63812672
By this logic 7.62 tok is the ultimate round
>>63812898
Lmao no. Im an ak fag and the best we have is black tip aac or xtap. Both suck cock compared to some of the black arc/nas3 5.56 loads.
>>63812929
I love 7.62x39 ak’s but they are realistically sub 200 yard guns.

>>63818767
>Of military rifle bullets
Yea, m67 is a shit. Now go look at what decent soft points, ballistic tips, and hollow points do in that caliber. 7.62x39 when using comparable loads is more effective than 5.56 at close distances outside of maybe the 77gr TMKs.

>>63819897
For terminal performance at close to medium ranges, the best 7.62x39 rounds are the same as the best 5.56 rounds. Anything with TSX, Controlled Chaos, or other copper monolithic bullets.

Hardcast 9mm should be your go to handgun for bear defense unless you're in polar territory. This argument was solved decades ago, you fucking dweebs.

>>63820265
>>63819944
7.62x39 will till penetrate barriers, IE bear skulls better due to the added mass of the round, regardless of bullet construction compared to 5.56.

>>63811142 (OP)
Agreed. I love my 10mm Glock but I'm not carrying that shit on my hip while hiking. I've carried it in my pack but you can't get to it fast enough. The only gun I carry in the mountains now is my Shield Plus because it's easy enough to carry that I forget it's there. I wish it came with a 4 inch barrel for slightly more velo with hard casts but it is what it is.

The concept of a bear gun exists imo so that guys can talk themselves into buying the magnum caliber gun they already wanted to buy.

>>63815594
I really want to try that sometime with my 454 Alaskan. I’m not really worried about bear defense, just curious how well I can keep it on a target like that. If fired it pretty fast in double action at a distance, and at 15 yards I can usually keep 5 out of 6 shots in the size of a sheet of paper. Which is pretty decent considering the recoil

>>63822057
Tie a black bucket to a quad with ~50 yards of rope.
The quad will randomly take off as fast as he can pulling the bucket towards you.
If you couldn't land three rounds on the bucket my instructor would fail you.

>>63818956
Irrelevant and probably wrong anyway. Not gonna stop a bear in time.

>>63811142 (OP)
these are your most effective anti-bear tools. fucking wear one you retard.

>>63822166
b8. everyone who actually lives around bears know that bear shit smells like pepper spray and is full of bells

>>63822540
less than 1 bear death per year btw

>>63822802
yeah because the people who live around them know to use a gun

I've read about a soldier who had shrapnel in his brain and it took him around 20 to 30 minutes to go from vomiting to falling into a snoring coma.

>>63822161
>Not gonna stop a bear in time
Okay can you provide one example of a bear hit center mass twice with 9mm that killed the shooter?

>>63823527
>hit twice
Average news of killing bears with 9mm is shooting them multiple times and more often then not the bear survived and bled to death later from running away. This is with deliberate aim for vitals and not just blind shooting.
https://www.americanhunter.org/content/alaska-outfitter-defends-fishermen-from-raging-grizzly-with-9mm-pistol/

Just take the L and shoot the bear with the intent to gaurruntee it dies instead of gambling on odds.

>>63822802
Clawed furry hands typed this post

>>63822092
… I need to get a quad…. Wonder if I can rig something up with a couple of pulleys and a winch…

>>63823685
it'd be a bitch to reset but a weight hanging from a tree or whatever that you release to pull the bucket will probably get you close to the speed you want

>>63823703
I might be thinking about it backwards… if I anchor a pulley behind it and put the bucket on a rope I could tie the rope to a recovery bungee with the bucket attached somewhere down range between the bungee and the pulley.. use the winch to stretch the bungee out, then release the winch…. Could probably hook the bungee up to the same vehicle I have the winch on if I can find a light duty bungee…. In theory I could use some regular rope attached to the winch, bucket, and bungee so if I fuck up and hit it it’s fairly replaceable…

>>63823527
Didn't say anything about "killing" the shooter, but you knew that. Most people who get attacked by a bear get mauled, meaning injuries that will cost tens of thousands to heal and likely lifelong damage. And there are plenty of examples of bears getting shot and still mauling the shooter.

I mean, I'm not gonna bash your gun pick. 9mm is considered the bare minimum for bear defense, but it's still on the list. I just don't know why you'd pick the bare minimum.

>>63823854
I mean, the number of recorded incidents where a bear was shot by a service caliber handgun and proceeded to maul the shooter can probably be counted on one hand.

That being said I don't necessarily disagree. Even if >>63818956 were true, 2 shots of 44 magnum legitimately often seems to accomplish more effect than 6 shots of 9mm. If you read accounts of .44 magnum bear defense, it often goes something like

>be retard boomer with hand cannon you've never shot in your life
>le derpington in teh woods
>stumble and faceplant 3 feet deep into a bear's anus
>"RAWRAHHHHRAAAHRAAARAAAAR"
>AHHHH YABBA DABBA DOOO
>pulls out revolver by the barrel end
>trips and drops it and accidentally steps twice on the trigger
>bear faceplants instantly and dies on the spot

Whereas 10mm bear defense often seems to look like
>be USPSA master class shooter
>pay attention to selecting optimal woods loading for better effect
>detect aggressive bear from 30 yards away
>manage to draw and aim Glock 20 in advance
>bear finally charges
>after dumping half the mag, bear runs away and dies 3 days later or gets close enough to knock shooter over who hits their own foot in the process

That's a bit hyperbolic but the point is that .44 magnum wielded incompetently often seems to achieve more immediate effect than smaller calibers wielded competently. Overwhelmingly no one dies or gets seriously hurt even in the latter case, but if you ran a large enough sample size, I think the results would bear (haha get it? shieeeet) out the supposition that large magnums are just more reliable.

>>63818741
But what if you kissed it (on the lips) instead?

I wonder if a full auto Glock wouldn’t be useful against a grizzly bear. If you tricked it out with recoil-minimizing accessories like a brake or a gas pedal, I bet it would be a pretty good bear-country option.

>>63811142 (OP)
You are a fucking retard.

>>63819944
>Now go look at what decent soft points, ballistic tips, and hollow points do in that caliber.
>implying AK fanbois would shoot anything but cheapest FMJ crap they would find in Walmart

>>63811195
The surest indicator that you're entering bear country are the obvious clusters of libertarians.

Whether she dies in a millisecond, dies in a month, or fully heals, that's not your problem. Defending against bears, any incident with no human injury after the first shot is a win.
https://www.ammoland.com/2023/11/handgun-defenses-against-bears-170-documented-incidents-98-effective/
Bears don't like continuing to fight against gunshots of any stripe. 22 vs polar bear is the only matchup that stands out in a bad way.

>>63823854
Okay how many people have been mauled in the manner you describe (lifelong damage, tens of thousands of dollars, bla bla bla) after hitting a bear twice center mass with 9mm in the last 50 years?

>>63823624
>Average news of killing bears with 9mm is shooting them multiple times and more often then not the bear survived and bled to death later from running away. This is with deliberate aim for vitals and not just blind shooting.
We were talking about being killed or maimed after hitting the bear multiple times, not the bear running off.

>>63811142 (OP)
>10mm reddit woods glock offers no advantage over a standard 9mm
are you mentally disabled?
do you live in some shithole where only single shot weapons are allowed?

>>63811142 (OP)
>>Any modern handgun will stop a grizzly if you hit the brain. (or heart or spine)
With the exception of the heart, yeah.
>>No modern handgun except extremely powerful meme rounds will RELIABLY stop a grizzly with body shots.
Nothing reliably stops a grizzly if you hit it in the guts.
>Larger calibers offer no real advantage
More bleeding
>the 10mm reddit woods glock offers no advantage over a standard 9mm
More bleeding, more penetration, can reach vitals from less ideal angles, heavier bullets track straighter once in the body
>Am I missing something?
benis in butt

>>63822166
I am not going to die with my only experience of nature being accompanied by bell chimes.

As someone who has been attacked and ambushed by animal in the wild, you have time to maybe get one shot off before something as large as vear is on top of you. I wouldn't take anything less than 10mm

jesus why do small caliber chuds get so poopy about this? If you're so interested in being able to stop a bear with the most minimal force possible, where's your cross-head spear?
>i can poke a bear before you even draw
>any weapon will stop a grizzly if you hit the brain or heart
>spear heads will penetrate bear skulls better due to the mass of the head
>the biggest mammoth kill ever recorded was done in by a 6"x3" obsidian head to the skull
>Just carry some xtreme penetrators when in the woods either a crossbow or a crossed spear work fine
>For instant incapacitation, only penetration and shot placement matter. So just poke him in the eye real good.

>>63811142 (OP)
This is a fantasy along with handguns for protection in cities. You would NEVER pull it off and they only serve to escalate an issue. Good luck hitting a bear if it’s charging you.

>>63811142 (OP)

>Am I missing something?

>>63812682
There was that guy that mag dumped into the grizzly while he was getting mauled until his buddy blew a chunk off of it with a 300 Win Mag before it ran off and died.

>>63812781
ARG trannies just cannot help themselves. 7.62 fucks harder. 8.6 fucks even harder and is better suppressed.

>>63828334
Who?

>>63828432
MeatEater interviewed him a while ago. I’ll see if I can try to find it.

>>63828173
>"guns are completely harmless because they never hit anything"
OK, this is an argument for them to be everywhere. School kids should have machineguns because they won't hit anything anyway, so what's the harm? No-one has ever intentionally shot someone else because it's impossible.
>they only serve to escalate an issue
Ah yes, zero issues are ever life-or-death unless a gun is involved. It is simultaneously impossible for a 6'5 350lb man to be violent, and ALSO imperative that such people have an absolute monopoly on the use of violence in public.

This extremely female thinking is indistinguishable from mental retardation. It's in large part a severe case of never-been-hit syndrome, they literally do not know what force feels like.

>>63811142 (OP)
Alright everyone advocating for 9mm is a bear and is trying to get you killed so theh can have some extra dinner tonight. Don't listen or pay any attention to them.
>>63828202
There he is, the return of the king, the gun that needs to be posted in every faggy bear thread to mog all 9mm and 10mm kids. The gun that makes all 9mm/10mm kids piss and shit themselves from it's chiseled non fluted cylinder and frame cut. Behold.

>>63824342
reading through these seems to really favor the bigger guns. 9mm, 40, 45, 10mm seem to rely either on luck of shot placement or some form of point blank (in one case putting the gun to the bears head, another the spine) whereas the one or two shot stops seem to come from the magnums, particularly 44.
from
https://www.ammoland.com/2022/04/update-of-pistol-defenses-against-bears-123-cases-98-effective/#axzz84MZyzEdA
>The son yelled at the bear and drew his Springfield sub-compact. He did not have a round in the chamber. The Springfield comes with a 9 round and a 10 round magazine. He chambered a round and checked to be sure the safety was off. The pistol was new. He had never fired it before. His father had owned the same model for some time.

The son noticed, as the bear continued to run at him, that it appeared to be in full charge mode, with its ears laid back. He noticed a cub was with the sow. As the sow came within 30 yards of him, he started firing at the bear and moving to put a small tree between him and the charging grizzly.

The son fired his final rounds as the charging bear approached within feet. The bear went down and slid downslope about five yards where it died. In the investigation which followed. Ten .40 caliber brass were found at the scene. The brass was within 2-3 yards of the dead bear.

I interpret this to mean that from a distance of 30 yards, the charging bear was struck with 10 rounds of .40 of unknown type, and closed to within 3 yards of shooter by the time it died
not really great odds if you're the shooter

>>63829429
How do you read that display of utter incompetence and infer that the son hit all 10 shots? That dumb shit was carrying a brand new unfired gun with an empty chamber in bear country. I'd be surprised if he even made half of the hits.

>>63829582
That's true. I think I was doing a "worst case scenario" reading and thought for some reason the text confirm 10 hits not just 10 fired. I still consider the fact that the bear cleared ~90 feet in the time it took that guy to dump 10 rounds and died just before it reached him.
not a whole hell of a lot of room for error
read some of the other accounts though, the semiauto cartridges don't do great. lots and lots of 44 mag killing them dead though. probably a lot of the same issues with police ballistics, where the amount of rounds you fire is equal to the amount of rounds you have at least with the semiautos.

>>63829609
It seems more likely that caliber choice is reflective of individual skill/preperation. In my mind, anyone carrying a magnum revolver in bear country is a classic boomer type. Hardcast wadcutters, lots of practice with NRA bullseye shooting, more perceptive of bears, etc... On the other hand, the smaller caliber autoloader crowd is probably a mixed bag that ranges from competent USPSA shooter to actual retard carrying an unfired subcompact .40SW with empty chamber.

>>63828985
> This extremely female thinking

With regards to your response to his 2nd green text, “female thinking” is the proper characterization, because the girls can not use violence without instruments. In their mind, violence didn’t exist until weapons were invented, and only then did the killing start.

>>63828173
>only serves to escalate

when the hell are you gonna be better served WITHOUT a gun than with? Assuming hostilities are already underway, it’s always better to have a gun. Merely brandishing one is usually enough to get someone to knock off whatever shenanigans they’re up to.

So…..real talk about grizzlies. Do they in fact SEEK OUT humans because they know they’ll get food off of us?

>>63829685
Not quite.
The revolver user is carrying the biggest calibre the gun clerk had in stock to sell him. They still haven't finished the first box of ammo.
The guy carrying the autoloader bought it for urban pests and considers himself a marksman despite shooting less than once a month at an indoor range.

>>63829751
I choose to believe that at least some people out there are competent.

>>63829741
Anon, we are food!

(Joking, idfk what grizzlies do or why)

>>63829764
Very few.
The average is worse than the lowest chucklefuck in your CCW class.

OP is correct

handguns suck at killing people, so what makes you think they can kill much dumber and aggressive animals

I killed a mountain lion in self defense in the bob 4 years ago with a SW 638, shot in once center mass and it just freaked out on the ground and then stood back up like nothing happened, it stood still long enough for a single headshot

Bear spray.

Even if you miss the bear and hit yourself if will work.

>>63829741
No
They are opportunistic and territorial
Typically you only need to worry about sow+cubs and if the cubs squeak, or an older male with injuries or bad teeth
They may acclimate in parks and raid coolers

>>63829429
A one shot stop sounds like a great end result, but if you properly think about it, not all factors that make it more likely are good. Massive recoil can increase the time between shots and delay the shooter's decision of whether more shots are necessary.
Imagine the timeline of a charging bear reacting to massive blood loss. In the first 200 milliseconds, the bear takes another few steps seemingly unaffected. In the next 200ms, it takes a couple more steps, still towards the shooter, but getting wobbly and droopy. In the next 200ms, the bear's face is sliding to a stop in the dirt.
If the shooter is poorly handling a lot of recoil and takes a full second before being ready to fire again, they'll probably think the first shot worked great and there's no need to keep shooting.
If the shooter achieves the same wounding while masterfully handling little recoil and is ready to fire again in 150ms, they probably will. And again. And again. Having the opportunity for these quick follow up shots makes the legendary one shot stop end result much less likely, despite making the shooter far more capable for other situations where those shots aren't excess. And when they are excess, they might get misunderstood. Perhaps the forth shot hits the brain of the bear that was already falling from the first shot, and now the story goes that those peashooters do nothing until you hit the brain.

>>63811142 (OP)
you have seen through the bullshit of bear gun arguments completely, very impressive for only 24 hours of reading. I'm sure you had to wade through miles of garbage to find the nuggets of real information.
>the 10mm reddit woods glock offers no advantage over a standard 9mm given that both will work on the brain and be fundamentally useless anywhere else.
100% true and real.

I have always thought that a shotgun with buckshot would be good for bear purposes, since it would give you the maximum possible chance of landing a shot to the brain after dumping 50+ pellets at the target.

>>63829820
Fwiw I really, really enjoy big bore revolvers. But every time I run into someone saying they’re gonna get one for bears I usually try to talk them out of it. If you don’t shoot it regularly then your gonna be shit with it.. while this is true with any gun, the low capacity, high recoil aspect of big bore stuff really tends to drive this home…. Second you have to commit to getting expensive ammo. I literally got into reloading because I wanted to shoot big bore stuff more.. I have saved no money… I have shot a lot more than if I’d been buying ammo new the whole time though….


With practice I’m pretty sure a big bore revolver will give superior results to a semiautomatic, even a 10mm with bear defense rounds.. but without practice it’s a gamble…

>>63829890
99% of people who want to buy a gun "for bears" never travel beyond 100yds of their pickup truck parked in the local suburban strip mall. It's literally just an excuse to purchase a shiny new toy.

>>63829429
The 44 being the most common to pop up probably has less to do with 44 mags superiority as a big bore round, and more to do with it just being infinitely more common than most other big bore options.. 500 is a meme… it’s a fun meme, but I doubt many people seriously think it’s the ideal choice as a self defense rounds for hiking. 460 xvr is geared way more towards handgun hunting. 41 mag is unobtanium and no one knows what it is…. 480 ruger is a round that half the people reading this didn’t know existed until this sentence, and 454 casull is in maybe 1 out of 10 gun stores…. Whereas all 10 will have at least a box of 44 mag…. The linebaughs and 500 Wyoming express are only available factory in single actions (BFR and freedom arms) and otherwise require a conversion, also only a few manufacturers make the ammo so your basically required to get into reloading.


Dirty Harry did wonders for 44 mag, and S/W probably still owe Eastwood a reach around and free guns for all the advertising he gave them with that movie…

>>63829899
Using bears as an excuse to buy big bore revolvers is stupid cope at best. I like big bore stuff, and I can afford it. I don’t need some goofy fantasy to justify it beyond that.

>>63829741
Depends on the region. In rural Alaska, they tend to seek out human settlements because lots of people just leave their trash out on the lawn and don't practice bear-safe living. Heavily Native communities also like to dump fresh salmon heads and spines on the beach, which naturally attracts everything from eagles to grizzlies. Plus, there's usually a fuckload of them outside the cities. If you're not a degen and you take your trash to the dump, you pretty much need to take your gun and/or your dog with you because that is ALWAYS where they hang out between spring and fall.

But generally as others have said, you're just startling them randomly in the woods

>>63826433
Despite everyone conceding to you the extremely contrived circumstances of even being in that situation. (The odds of a bear attack are already 1 in 2.1 million btw.) You dare to pull hairs when it is pointed out reported success stories of self defense qwith 9mm isn't two shots on average?

>>63830737
I find it amazing this guy posts the same bear threads week after week

>>63829858
>>the 10mm reddit woods glock offers no advantage over a standard 9mm given that both will work on the brain and be fundamentally useless anywhere else.
>100% true and real.
Flat-nose 10mm (or .40, or .45) will penetrate deeper and straighter than 9mm (as well as bleeding the animal slightly faster). So if you're being charged and miss the brain you can still reach the heart/lungs or major arteries more reliably through the neck/shoulder.

That being said the whole Phil Shoemaker incident proves that heavy 9mm is effective if the bear's reared-up or quartering, but it takes some time for it to incapacitate, and Shoemaker was only able to take his time because the bear wasn't running him down and wasn't actively mauling his clients.

>>63811142 (OP)

>>63830737
That was your fucking scenario dipshit.
Here's a scenario:
How many times in the last fifty years has someone been confirmed to hit a grizzly bear even once center mass and still been mangled or killed like you said?

>>63832450
Some fag used newspaper clipping and completely ignored how percentages worked to claim all pistol calibers were the same. He actually proved one of the most ineffective calibers was the most effective and then ignored that his findings were contrary to actual fact. Then some other fag who worked for an ammunition companies rag did the same bullshit to claim all pistol calibers had the same effectiveness being used as bear defense. And here we the fuck are. A bunch of absolute dipshits running around parroting misinformation that all pistol calibers are the same and 9mm is "just as good" or "proven to work" where we have been shown that they are all not the same, and that 9mm is shit when the situation isn't perfect.
But I say go for it. The 5.7 and 9mm guys are just helping the rest of humanity in the long run by being removed from the gene pool.

>>63838513
We need more retards to go innawoods and gather data by encountering bears and reach that 3% angry bear threshold

>>63811155
Giggles
>>63811142 (OP)
Broski? Its called bearmaze and its more effective than any handgun. Why do you Mudcunts always try to stop everytjing with guns? Do you watch too much movies?

>>63839128
Typed too fast: irritation
> Maze
Mace

>>63811142 (OP)
OP next week

>>63839128
I can deploy a rifle in any conditions
Other than hearing loss, you're not going to fuck yourself up because the bears coming upwind
90% of my bear encounters have been neutral. Shoot bears that aren't afraid of you.
Some guy bakes the same thread every week farming (You)s

>>63811142 (OP)
You make that animal into rage mode it willvgodzilla the shit out of you meanwhile playing dead and spraying bear mace at the last moment has been proven to be effective. You need heavy armory for small black bears but have fun with your glock on that grizzly anon. They might have too strong skulls for shooting it with a normal handgun. Not sure but Americans are the last people on earth who recommend to not shoot it in such a situation. This guy on youtube this its because of "lefties being against guns". Sounds quite stupid anon.

>>63839182
Have fun walking a few miles with a rifle while you not going out for hunting. Sounds like youre not experienced. How is a hiking faggit even going to walk ten miles with hunting equipment

You can hunt bears with a smaller caliber than this.

Have fun anon

>>63839273
damn

>>63839288
He wants walk around for hours or days with that?

>>63839301
Nah, he just want to be some hero. Wants to return to his Texan village and make some redneck pussy wet with his stories about killing bears, kek

>>63839245
Yeah it's great I do it a couple times a week

>>63839347
Just buy a weightvest at a fitnessstore If you want to ruin your body during a hike. More effective. Most bears are neither grizzly's or interrrested in humans. The ones to look out for are the mothers with babies. Actually a baby bear is a sign you have to run for your life. A mom will always see a human as a thread near her babies

>>63839373
The cubs aren't a problem unless you spook them. As soon as they squeak and start climbing a tree the female will come for you
That hill in the background is the location of most of the violent and fatal bear attacks in the state, BTW
Running from a bear is a guarantee to get your ass chewed, the female is gonna catch you anyway. They can move almost 30mph through thick brush. Really amazing to watch

>>63839421
They can climb up but also if they run down hill it will piss of their mom. She wil come at you even climbing in a tree she wil jump at least 5/6 times with full aggression at you

>>63837454
I never said that. I am Not That Anon and I was pointing out that successful self defense with 9mm is more then two shots on average. Not even "you cannot defend yourself from bears with 9mm".

You shot yourself in the foot and it is entirely your own fault.

>>63839524
Yeah the fun part comes after when the resident male comes to eat the cubs

>>63839702
All that matters is the success rate (cases where weapon is deployed, user is not killed or maimed vs cases where weapon is deployed and user is killed or maimed) for reasons that are obvious to anyone over the age of five. If the success rate is 100% it doesn't matter if the average number of shots is one or twelve because the only relevant statistic is "incident including use of tool: failure vs success". Because you're retarded we have to wind our way painstakingly towards this basic fucking logic over the course of a week while you dig your heels in at every potential (intentional) misinterpretation and weasel word manipulation.
Getting you bearfags to talk like regular fucking human beings rather than Talmud scholars is like pulling teeth out of an actual bear.

>>63840693
When the report eliminated instances where the pistol failed and a rifle was used to dispatch the animal, when a rifle was used and then a pistol was deployed and failed, when 9mm cases and pistol was found with dead human but claimed it didn't count because they couldn't be sure if the animal was hit (multiple cases where the human or human remains were found were discounted) then the 100% lol for the four cases they counted out of dozens doesn't really tell the entire fucking story does it.
THE FUCKING BEAR REPORT WAS DONE BY A COMPANY THAT SELLS AMMO AND WANTS TO MAXIMIZE SALES YOU FUCKING RETARD.
"Walmart today announced all cold medicines carried by Walmart work equally as well"
How fucking dumb is society now?

>>63811142 (OP)
Why would I want to shoot my wife?
>>63841321
Most """gun guys""" just repeat marketing points they've been told is true (it just is okay?). Very few people who talk about guns online know anything about them, all they know is advertising.

>>63811155
It's weird how millions of humans in America are plotting the deaths of a few hundred bears in the wild, frantically searching for the best firearms technology to exterminate them. I say bears have a good reason to attack humans given this kind of behavior by humans.

Europeans in bear countries aren't anywhere near as obsessed with killing the animals.

>>63843880
That’s because you have weak pathetic bears

>>63843894
You've never seen a bear. You barely even go out. That's why this is insanity. Practicality is completely gone from this topic, replaced with madness.

>>63843880
>>63843926
>In my country we punch bears or something... WE JUST DO OK???
Anon I...

>>63843963
kys obsessed mutt

>>63844033
>yo onions obsessed o algo
>BBBRRRAAAAAAPPP

>>63844041
Wrong race mutt, I can't wait till trump takes away your guns and genocides you cumskins

>>63844047
>Shitskin polnigger
>Antigun shill
EVERY. SINGLE. TIME.

>>63844058
>Antigun shill
Nobody needs to own a gun brownoid, true aryans use swords. Idk why you mutts obsess over them, good thing you'll die for Israel before you ever use them for anything

>>63844064
worst bait ever award

>>63844064
holy shit shut the fuck up zigger, go back to dying on the frontlines

>>63844067
>>63844074
>Obsessed mutts seething that their only personality trait will be taken from them
The left won, get over it retard.

>>63844064
>true aryans use swords

>>63843926
Were all mad here anon.

Realistically though I’ve been way to close to bears in the wild on 2 occasions, once while on our way back from camping in Canada at a commercial campground we had a huge fucking brown bear run across the road, and once in PA, no clue what type of bear, but I was tent camping at my uncles since we were having a huge family reunion and it freed up beds in the house.. grandma didn’t tell me she and her sisters threw all the food scraps and turkey carcass in the burn barrel 150 feet from my tent…. Found it knocked over in the morning with bear prints all over.. didn’t sleep as well the second night.

>>63844090
>larping /k/fag
>lying about needed a gun
>europoor hours
many such cases

>>63844109
I was a kid both times man, didn’t need a gun either time. I feel like you really want to argue about anything, why is that?

>>63820410
There is no intermediate rifle cartridge on this planet that wont have enough energy to pen bear skulls at an animal's rushing distance. 5.56 is still >1k ftlb at 100 yards.

>>63844135
Large animals=/=people you disingenuous little fuck, who are you trying to bait?

>>63812672
That guy was full of shit and his sources were basically just “trust me bro”.

>>63811142 (OP)
The biggest danger with grizzlies is stopping yourself from going in for the pets.
>>63811155
> You won't even encounter a bear anyway
:(. Dont say that

>>63844144
Still.
1,000ftlb
At.
100.
Yards.

>>63811155
>Bears don't exist because... THEY JUST DONT OKAY?

I really just want to kill bears and it’s super gay they want you to buy licenses and shit. Is there any law against walking around covered in sizzle steaks and female grizzly piss?

>>63844180
>female grizzly piss
oh no haha... imagine the smell

>>63811142 (OP)
>he doesn’t bring his bear mace
Ngmi

Glawk with a switch and extended mag is unironically the best bear blaster. Just spray and pray.

>>63844144
You are aware that 9mm kills bears, and does so with a 350-380 ftlb muzzle energy? Commonly less than that as most people arent running 5.5 inch barrels and +p

>going where bears are
No thank you lol.

you just know

>>63844144
9.5" 77gr 1 shot 30yds btw
Big Brownie I'd still put about 3rds in it's face after it stopped moving

>>63844217
>>63844400
Carry a 22 short then pussy faggot, god 9chuds are so fucking obnoxious

I saw a bear, once, whilst on vacation in Colorado. It was a baby. Sat around for a bit waffling on what to do, so eventually picked it up and took it to the ranger’s office. They looked at me like I shot the pope, but I’m told it made its way to the vet school and would be part of some research project so alls well that ends well.

>>63844135
NTA, I've seen pig skulls bounce intermediate rifle rounds on video before. Necropsy to confirm and everything. Intermediate rifle rounds have the ability to penetrate tougher animal skulls, but if the angles bad it's hardly guaranteed.

i went hiking alone and got growled at by 2 bears. didnt even have a gun but they ran away luckily. now that im packing i bet ill never see one again

>>63847244
Can you share please

>>63847217
If it wasn't weaning you probably made the right call.

Rangers just don't want people collecting animals, understandable desu. To them it's much more likely that a bear is "saved" erroneously than actually spared from abandonment.

>>63811142 (OP)
I killed a grizz with a 9mm. I was taking a piss in the stream is been fishing in and it just kinda ambled up, so I mag dumped and claimed self defense. Troopers believed it. It even made the news.


I love Alaska.

>>63847194
Ok

>>63847729
It was tiny, tiny. Barely opened its eyes, so I assume now that I’m older that it was a pretty fresh newborn that got deemed unviable by its mother.

>>63847904
Yeah, idk whether you were reading too much into the rangers' reaction, or they were just bitches. There's absolutely no reason a momma bear leaves a cub that small alone unless she's abandoned it.

There's a school of thought that leaving animals to their natural fate is always the right call, I think that's just anti-human nonsense. I'm not leaving a baby to starve or be eaten.

I wanna fuck a bear. A sow, but a bear. I don’t really know why but I just want to.