let's hear 'em

>>63814676 (OP)
>fuddlore
I get ma 5.56 supersonic ARRRRRR with one dem silencers so is being like call of duwety.

>>63814676 (OP)
>dry firin will break your firing pin, sonny

>Be me
>Go to rural Missouri gun show
>See M1 Carbine
>It's a replica
>Pricetag: $1300

>>63814676 (OP)
>>63814794
You just did this thread >>63801875 but whatever
>>63814800
>>dry firin will break your firing pin, sonny
This is one of the few examples of real good fuddlore: it's something that genuinely was an issue at one point way back when, is not on modern handguns, but there are just enough old ones floating around that it sticks anyway.

Also even though it's completely unnecessary from a gun damage perspective, dummy caps are cheap and worth considering since they'll let you do a few other drills. Laser dummies enable even more and are fun to dry fire with and cost like $18.

>>63814676 (OP)
If you are interested in trains as a child and your parents encourage that interest throughout your development, you will be able to get a job.

>>63814828
>but there are just enough old ones floating around that it sticks anyway.
Same as most things, honestly. Reality is rarely black or white. The idea that "you must never do X" or "Y always works" is always just a generalization with a lot of exceptions.

My personal favorite:
>.50 BMG is so powerful that even a near miss will tear your arm right off from the shockwave

>>63814846
>My personal favorite:
I have heard this from guys that were in the military
they also told me it was illegal to shoot a man with a 50

>>63814676 (OP)
>if you carry with a red dot and extended magazines, the prosecutor and DA office will go after you
I have heard this 3 different times from revolver fudds

>>63814909
this has gotta be somebody mishearing something along the lines of "red dot + ext mags looks way worse in court than a revolver"

>>63814909
>>if you carry with a red dot and extended magazines, the prosecutor and DA office will go after you
>I have heard this 3 different times from revolver fudds
This isn't really "fuddlore" unfortunately, this is flat out doomer/zoomielore too at this point. We've seen plenty of threads on /k/ in the last few years full of anons insisting that if you have anything modern on your gun in home defense that, against all law/caselaw and evidence, you will definitely be prosecuted. Fishfags almost inevitably make an appearance too since it's like the only even vaguely self defense related case anyone can find in 20+ years, nevermind that he won and the circumstances were incredibly specific and had nothing to do with his gun either.

>>63814837
Yes? The railroads are always hiring and pay is often extremely good compared to other fields requiring similar qualifications. The jobs generally suck ass, are dirty and dangerous, and require relocation to some really shitty parts of the country. But with a high school diploma and an autistic love of trains you too can pull 70k to start conducting freight through the middle of fucking nowhere Montana and being on call for weeks on end.

>>63814940
Any DA stupid enough to try and bring up what you chose to put on your firearm is going to get anally gaped by a judge, at least if you have a competent attorney.

>>63814805
>$1300
Walk-out-the-door price that's not that bad, you can get them online for a bit cheaper but then you have to wait and paying shipping/fees. If it was it good shape I'd take that offer seriously.

>>63814905
It's not illegal but it is against doctrine, a 50 is an anti-materiel round, you're wasting it shooting at people that aren't in vehicles or buildings and you should get yelled at for doing so

>>63814828
There are firearm designs and finnicky guns sold/used to this day where dryfiring (without snapcaps) can lead to part failure.

>>63815030
The Mk 211 Raufoss was used extensively in Barretts during the 21st century sand wars, mainly on soft targets behind cover.

>>63815030
sounds false

>>63815030
what if i’m going for a collateral?

>>63815060
You're gonna get yelled at for wasting ammo

>>63815046
>soft targets behind cover.
That is, in fact, one of the canonical uses of anti-materiel ordnance! Very good anon you get a gold star see me after class

>>63815162
>! Very good anon you get a gold star see me after class
back to red*it plz

I daily carry a Colt series 70

>>63815210

>>63815266
literally me. im a cop and I wear hawiians every single day. It pays to have a decent cheif that doesn't care if I get results.

>>63814940
i dont think manysay you will "definitely be persecuted"
just doesnt look good in court to have a "tactical" firearm rather than one that looks like a hunting gun
a minority, if any, of the jurors will be gun people
Paul Harrel speaks to this, btw. He took two lives in self defense on separate occasions.

>>63814676 (OP)
>the rotation of a 5.56 bullet creates a magnetic field that rottens the flesh.
An instructor of italian Air Force in 2002.

>>63815156
>collateral kill
>wasting ammo
sir, that is called efficient shooting

>>63814800
On very old guns and rimfires, it'll do it quickly, but even if modern guns are designed to tolerate it much more, that's still needless damage.
Some manufacturers say that their rimfires will handle dryfiring, but it's up to you if you want to mar up the edge of your chamber and hope that it's fine, that energy isn't just gonna vanish without effect.

The firing pin is meant to dent and deform the soft metal body of the primer (or rim, on a rimfire), which makes the expendable primer the sacrificial wear part in this event, it getting doinked is cushioning your firing pin.
Without that, you are going to wear out your firing pin faster. Not immediately, but faster. I really think that you should get a couple of good snapcaps if you wanna do a bunch of dryfiring, particularly if it's a gun you rely on or you're fond of.

>>63815030
Do you have any idea how many Krauts, Japs, Gooks, and Towlies have been cut apart with Fiddy Browning? The primary appeal with the thing is that you get long range and it almost ignores light cover and light armor, you can trash a halftrack full of dudes and probably kill most of them by perforating the hell out of it, and you can also hit guys taking cover behind many kinds of urban scenery and heavy vegetation.

Sure, the main idea with it in WW1 and WW2 was for defeating armored vehicles and reaching up into the sky to take down planes, but nobody anywhere said you weren't ever supposed to use it on other things, because it works damn well in all sorts of applications. One of the key reasons they started putting them on trucks and jeeps is because it can be used to defend against all sorts of things you might encounter in a war zone, and it's just a generally great force multiplier.

>>63814940
There's also the ever prescient gem where doomers/defeatists/shills insist that if you ever blast a nignog in self-defense it means automatic court rape and riots.

>Fishfags almost inevitably make an appearance too since it's like the only even vaguely self defense related case anyone can find in 20+ years, nevermind that he won and the circumstances were incredibly specific and had nothing to do with his gun either.
He didn't even really win, he got fucked for some pretty arbitrary reasons, he just got exonerate years later. "10mm bad!" is the completely wrong lesson to take away from that case.

>>63815210
I mean, it fucking works, I can't exactly tell you "No, you're wrong to do that!" Statistics are very much on your side, even.

>>63815438
Paul knew from experience, and I don't think that it's a complete non-issue, but people like Massad Ayoob have, uh, propagated some pretty wild ideas about this sort of thing. For a hyperbolic example, if you scribble "NIGGER HYPER-KILLER 69000" on the slide of your Glock 19, that's the kind of thing which would probably look pretty bad in court if you had to defend yourself, especially if the guy you shot was black.

I don't think a carry or defense weapon needs to be completely stock, but it probably helps to view modifications with at least a mildly conservative approach: Is this modification going to be in my favor if I have to draw and shoot? Is this modification going to be needless ammunition if the DA decides to be a faggot?

>>63815806
>reaching up into the sky to take down planes, nobody anywhere said you weren't ever supposed to use it on other things, because it works damn well in all sorts of applications
many such cases

>a faster twist barrel puts more energy in the bullet!

>>63815438
>just doesnt look good in court
>>63815889
>that's the kind of thing which would probably look pretty bad in court
The whole point here is that THIS ISN'T HOW TRIALS WORK GUYS. You can't just introduce any random thing to cast shade when it's unrelated to the offense. Justifiable homicide laws, particularly those relating to castle doctrine, are quite clear. They set out the circumstances under which someone is legally justified in using lethal force. The person's character, beliefs, etc are irrelevant. So is the kind of lethal force used. It doesn't say "guns", it's just "lethal force", it could be a gun (probably will be in america), but could also be a crowbar or axe or furniture or bare fists, whatever is on hand for a person to defend themselves and that can (or did) kill the other person.

Any defense lawyer who isn't committing active malpractice would have anything like what is written on your gun suppressed. It's no different then if prosecution tried to bring up that 20 years earlier you'd written mean letters to the editor or something, your character isn't an element of the offense. If someone breaks into your house without your permission while you're occupying it that's really black and white.

So it doesn't "look bad in court" because it never shows up in court at all. The jury will never hear it, because the jury is the finder of fact not finder of law. Socially you might be "judged" by your community, or not, but it's not a legal thing.

>>63816944
>>a faster twist barrel puts more energy in the bullet!
lol you thinking of that 8.6 memeout? it is kinda sad how ungrounded much of the pop is in physics or else they could reason about shit like that

>>63815030
The vast majority of record distance kills were with the 50 bmg. Clearly it is perfectly capable in this role and no more a waste than anything else the taxpayer buys for them.

>>63814905
In fairness to them it's illegal to shoot anyone with anything except in certain cases.

>>63815889
Well shit am i supposed to cross it out now

>>63815287
I keep forgetting millennials are middle aged now

>>63814676 (OP)
Had a boomer come up to me a few years ago while I was 100 yd plinking with an AK (PSA GF3 Yes I was poor)

>That there AYYKAYY can't hit nothin', when I was in the Army stationed in AGermany them commies would shoot at us constantly!

This boomer tried to convince me there were frequent sporadic gunfights at the border with East Germany

>>63817176
lol

>>63816974
> So it doesn't "look bad in court" because it never shows up in court at all.
insert dust cover of the cop who blasted the retard in the hotel hallway

>>63816987
NTA but that shit has been around for a long, long time. You can find old magazine articles from the 50s and 60s making claims that are practically indistinguishable from the 8.6 marketing material.

>>63817395
Changed to Nigger Hyper Kisser 69000
Think the judge will buy it?

>oh my god look at your gun its got so many doodads and gadgets and colors!
>yes, thats how i like it
>but that statistically doesn't help your case against a jury
>ITS A GOOD THING I WILL LITERALLY NEVER USE MY GUN IN A CRIME THEN
>b-but what if you shoot a b-black m
IF I SHOOT SOMEONE IT WILL BECAUSE I NEED TO. IT WILL NOT BE A CRIME. I WILL NEVER USE MY GUN IN A CRIME.

>>63814676 (OP)
.22 bounces around in the skull because it can penetrate but doesn’t have the power to leave.

>>63815889
>people like Massad Ayoob have, uh, propagated some pretty wild ideas about this sort of thing
That dumb motherfucker still tells people to put those godawful 12 pound New York triggers in Glocks so the prosecutor can't claim your gun had a "hair trigger "

>"Carrying in Condition 1? That just ain't safe, sonny! Just rack in on the way up when you draw!"
I carry because of shitbulls, I don't think I'm gonna get that opportunity if one manages to latch onto my arm

>duuurrrrrr the army brought back good ol' peacemakers in the philippines war cuz them wimpy .38s couldn't do crap against moro warriors but teh mighty .45 ripped them apart like paper
AKSHUALLY, some old .45s were issued to troops but only because they didn't have enough newer .38 double actions, it had nothing to do with .38 being a useless cartridge. it was more of a logistics issue than anything else.

>you want wanna Dem AR-15's whya want one of sem automatic rifles where you hold the trigger down and goes EHEHEHEHEHEH

>>63814909
This is more part of the
>GUN MOD=GO TO JAIL
Fuddlore that supposes that prosecution will somehow just give up if you defend yourself with a bone stock glock. In reality having a fully kitted out (with legal mods) gun with get you into the same trouble with prosecution teams as a regular one.

>revolvers are the most reliable pistol on Gods green earth.
>lean on iron before a fancy red dot
>you don’t need a light on a gun, just break your WW2 tea cup grip and hold the flash light.
>I saw it on NCIS!

>>63815210
>Hammer down
why though

>>63818604
>>revolvers are the most reliable pistol
Despite their obvious draw backs, are revolvers not inherently more mechanically reliable than semi autos?

NAS brim

I unironically agree with fudds that think flashlights on carry guns are stupid and I’m really tired of seeing zoomers shill them so hard cause “YOU NEED EVERY ADVANTAGE YOU CAN GET!” I hate zoomerlore possibly more than fuddlore.
I don’t understand how people can be so concerned with the extremely small chance of needing a flashlight on their gun on top of the small chance of needing their gun at night on top of the small chance of needing their gun at all but they won’t consider simply carrying a normal flashlight in the much higher chance of simply needing a flashlight at night. I’ve heard idiots unironically tell anecdotes of times they needed a flashlight at night but all they had was the one mounted on their carry gun as if this doesn’t make them look like a massive fucking moron walking around at night waving a gun because they didn’t have the foresight to simply bring a flashlight with them.
This specifically applies to carry guns though. Rifles or HD guns I understand.

>>63816987
a higher twist rate does impart energy to the bullet, but it transfers velocity to rotational energy. it's a good way to bleed a little velocity off without subtracting from the total energy

>>63818352
This is true though

>>63818461
Agreed, I don’t want to have to use 2 hands to ready my gun in a rushed situation. That’s why I like carrying a hammer fired gun at half cocked, no safety. It eases some of the weight off the DA of the first shot and I don’t have to worry about disengaging a safety. Carrying without one in the chamber will always baffle me

>>63818495
>UUUUMM .45 was so powerful back in WWI!! The enemy used to throw themselves into the trenches bayonet first, and soldiers using .45s would be able to knock back soldier at full sprint and keep them from falling forward into the trench.
>also we used to give skeet shooters shotguns to shoot grenades flying towards the trenches

Bought this gun and I'm picking it up today when I get off work. Am I a fudd /k/?

I can't wait to go the range with it and get a million Dirty Harry references from fudds. I didn't buy it cause of Dirty Harry I bought it cause it's awesome and cause no hillary hole and cause Lord Hummungus used one in The Road Warrior (better movie than Dirty Harry btw)

>>63815889
>>63816974
>>63817781
>Scribble "Not for criminal use" on the side of my gun
>Shoot a nignog who is accosting me
>Immediately get acquitted since I can only use that gun when it's legal to do so

>>63819838
>ghoul
what kind of boomer faggotry is that

>>63814916
I often ask for a specific court case where somebody obviously got put away because of gun accessories, especial a home defense case since those are weirdly often the source of lore. I've never gotten a citation. It's just a "commonly known fact" floating around in the aether.
You aren't going to end up prosecuted because of gun accessories. Prosecutions go forward usually because of the situation, and sometimes egged on specifically by political pressure. Having or not having a red dot isn't going to be a tipping point in starting court proceedings. If you do end up in court, then at that point everything will be spun against you. You had hollowpoints? Clearly a murderous killer looking to cause pain. You didn't have hollowpoints? You don't care about bullets flying off into the distance. You had a red dot? You're a wannabe military gun nut. You didn't have a red dot? You don't care about being accurate and are wildly firing everywhere. You literally can't have made a right choice according to the prosecutor at that point so you may as well not worry about it.

>>63819957
Tourist spotted, get out

>>63819873
>Am I a fudd /k/?
>I bought it cause it's awesome and cause no hillary hole
>and cause Lord Hummungus used one in The Road Warrior (better movie than Dirty Harry btw)
You are not a fudd, you are a man of extreme taste.

>>63820022
tranny spotted
41% yourself

>>63820017
a lot of people pointed at the Daniel Shaver shooting, but Brailsford got away with that shit, despite having "you're fucked" and "moldy labia" on his gun. granted, cops will always get away with killing people.
I think a lot of this shit came from people like jeff cooper and massad ayoob, who were writing from 20-30 years ago, before every single person alive had an AR with a red dot. I still wouldn't want to have rhodie flags and whatever other dumb bullshit hanging up in my house, though

>>63820053
>jeff cooper
I'll never understand why faggot boomers worship this tool

>>63814794
Boomers are under no delusions that women do not have the natural mental orientation nor physical dexterity to operate a semi-automatic handgun

>>63820076
afaik he wrote (or at least popularized) the four rules of gun safety, did a lot of stuff for concealed carry back in the day, etc. you can still find old gunsite lectures on youtube sometimes
its old and outdated but i'll at least give the guy credit for his time

>>63820043
Correction, cringe /pol tourist spotted, now get out

>>63820017
Unfortunately there is massive legal ignorance, which honestly is partly the fault of the education system. At least when I was in school they wasted an entire fucking semester on greek mythology shit, and zero semesters (or even days) on basics of law which would have been a million times more useful. One of the more helpful life courses I ever took was a random side credit one at a community college, intro to law taught by a practicing defense lawyer. The basic structure of how trials work, how contracts work and so on is good to know.
>Prosecutions go forward usually because of the situation
Right. Prosecutors do not like losing, it looks bad for a number of reasons. So while there are exceptions, almost universally they hate taking a near guaranteed loser. And home defense law in particular is very, very strong in the US, even in states that are otherwise restrictive.

So in general the only way anyone gets prosecuted for it here is if it is a true, unironic fuck up. Like, they actually did invite over guests, who got delayed by a storm or something and arrived late, and the person had gotten drunk and forgot and then shot them when they came inside. Hard to claim home defense for somebody you literally invited in yourself. If mens rea comes into play for sentencing maybe aspects of the guns used might feature as evidence.

But if the person who got shot was in fact criminally breaking and entering? Yeah open and shut. The nature of the weapon(s) used doesn't matter in the slightest.

>>63820053
I mean, I wouldn't have that shit on my gun because it's tacky as fuck in the first place. But any practical accessory choice is not going to be affected by some idea it will get me locked up.

>>63820096
>now get out
or what? KYS

>3814676
Thinking more ft/lbs means more dead.

>>63820078
>meanwhile, in ancient military periodicals
"I sure hope we can get those semi-automatic rifles soon, because, god be my witness, our retarded mouth breathers could sure use a gun that's easier to operate than a bolt action rifle!"

>>63820136
>I mean, I wouldn't have that shit on my gun because it's tacky as fuck in the first place.
Right, and in turn there could be social consequences. That you don't get prosecuted or if so are found not guilty on all charges doesn't mean your family, neighbors, community, coworkers, employer, or clients/potential clients can't think you're a shithead or embarrassing retard. Which can have personal consequences for you. There's no reason to be concerned about going to prison for anything anyone puts on their gun, but if it had THIS WEAPON GENOCIDE RAPES MINORITIES XDDDD and swastika stickers all over it I'm sure that'd come out in media coverage and I'm sure it'd make things awkward in a lot of places, or get someone fired or mean clients won't do business with them.

Holding edgelord faggot beliefs is a constitutional right, but others deciding they want nothing to do with it and tell them so is also a constitutional right.
>But any practical accessory choice is not going to be affected by some idea it will get me locked up.
Yes, anything that is just purely functional is zero concern.

>>63817328
Did you accuse him of being high on meth?

>>63819838
Max Brooks is a faggot.

>>63820237
Yeah

>>63818495
The new .38 wasn't a well liked gun though, because it was pretty weak by the standards of its time, and it was a difficult gun to shoot accurately. Its performance really did influence the development of the 1911 pistol and its cartridge.

>>63820237
>>63820254
>no fun allowed

>>63820301
>>63820301
I love fun, just hate that faggot

>>63814676 (OP)
>fuddlore
>Don't buy them synthetic stocks
>They're hollow and the shock reverberates in them
>I didn't have any hearing trouble till I started shooting them plastic stocks


>never wears ear pro

>>63814905
>they also told me it was illegal to shoot a man with a 50
I got into an argument with a vet about that very thing.
>just trust me

>>63820348
>I got into an argument with a vet about that very thing.
I will bet money he was taught this by an instructor because they didn’t want room-temp IQ grunts wasting all their expensive .50 cal ammo.

>>63820344
Why do boomers take pride in being blind, deaf, and full of lead?

>>63819624
Nope, modern semi autos are pretty darn reliable.

>>63820348
Being in a unit that actually had .50 M107 rifles, the amount of soldiers from other units who saw them and would drop that chestnut is unreal. I've had up to E7s say it, so I know it's a deeply ingrained bit of lore.
The accompanying bit of lore is usually "If you ever go on trial for doing it, just claim you were aiming at the enemy's gun/radio and 'missed'." Which is retarded on so many levels. Like imagine if shooting somebody with a .50 actually was a war crime and you somehow got hauled up on it. I doubt some Well Acktually troll logic is going to amuse a bunch of people chomping to execute/imprison you.
FWIW, our M107s were rarely used as they were for specialized situations, and if you aren't preplanning to use it you won't carry a heavy as fuck rifle like that around "just in case". It mean the opportunities to use it in a firefight were limited but if it had come up we'd absolutely have shot it at people.
I mean M2HBs were shooting the fuck out of people and obviously nobody had a problem with that, but for some reason when the same cartridge goes into a rifle people get mythical about it.

>>63819792
It sounds like you just have a problem with people that don't carry flashlights.

>>63820350
.50 cal machineguns are still common and fired at people no problem. The confusion comes sometimes from a soldier thinking local ROE that limits using in certain areas equals universal laws of war.
The other time is for some reason people treat .50 cal rifles with much more reverence and lore than M2 machineguns. Probably because most soldiers never really touch the rifle so it's like a weird cool thing to make up stories about.

>>63820173
Nah more like
>"Ye gods, a rifle that fires repeatedly without an officer's input being required? The men will burn through our entire stock of ammunition!"

>>63819792
If you can put the light on the gun without it negatively affecting the ability to carry or draw it, I don't see the problem. Better to have than have not.
That's unrelated to people being unprepared by not having a stand alone flashlight

>>63820350
>expensive .50 cal ammo.
the military cares about money?

>>63820348
>>63820372
Speculating here but I suspect this myth probably originates from a memo written by a JAG officer when the Barrett first entered service in the early 1980s and it just sticks.

Part of a JAGs job is to advise on the legality of the use of different weapons in different conditions so one guy probably wrote a doofus memo for whatever command he was supporting, and even though the memo has been ignored because bad interpretation (lawyers make mistakes) it survives in the public phsy.

As for why one lawyer once wrote a bad memo, if you wanna get super technical the Geneva Convention contains rules prohibiting "superfluous injury or unnecessary suffering" so the argument was probably "a non-fatal hit would cause such severe injury that it could be considered unnecessary suffering". It's a technical argument and it has legs, it's just that common sense is a stronger argument.

>>63820350
I know it is. That's when I discovered the vast difference between education and instruction, and how many people instructed on a subject believe they are educated. The military is the worst about it though.
Bonus fudd story, I was at the LGS when a lady walked in looking for mags for her pistol and called them clips, the worker knows what she's looking for and makes small talk about how some folks would bust your chops over calling a mag a clip. I shit you not, this lady pulls out her phone and calls her husband on speaker who then starts talking to the worker like she's a child. "I understand how a civilian can make that mistake but I was in nam and the ammo crates came in saying clips". It was so cartoonish I just had to watch.

>>63820409
And as for the supporting role JAGs provide, it's quite useful. So because of them even though you can't use WP you can use it for ""illumination" and ""concealment"" and "defensively". So they are based and I'm not shitting on them.

>>63814676 (OP)
.22 has killed more ppl than any other cartridge

>>63820409
I've seen the myth self replicate by soldiers seeing that the rifle was adopted as anti-materiel, so they conclude using very limited logic that using it in any other way must be illegal. There's enough consensus among clueless soldiers that makes the idea reenforced.
I've also had soldiers (again those with zero experience with the rifles) that M107s aren't sniper rifles because they are hobbit inaccurate and they are so inaccurate because they are only meant to shoot at big targets and not at people. All of this is wrong, but people cling to myths

>>63820403
They care about giving low level officers shit for needing to spend money. The M5 bayonet was a genuine piece of shit that was broken all the time because it didn't have a tang so officers would just not assigned bayonets or confiscate them rather than deal with the higher ups for needing more when they inevitably broke. This has resulted in a generation of grunts with no bayonet experience and thinking that a bayonet just isn't important.

>>63814905
It will also pop your eyeballs if you fire it with your mouth closed

>>63820435
In 999 out of 1000 cases carrying an extra mag is a smarter choice than carrying a bayonet.

>>63820451
An infantryman not carrying a bayonet is inexcusable. It's not a popular view but I will die on that hill.

>>63820449
Think about it. Your job is to train an 18 year old retard. You could either
>You have to keep your mouth open so that you equalize the pressure in your ear canal and thus prevent damage to your eardrums from over-pressure
Or
>Keep your cock-holster open or your fucking eyes will explode
You don't need them to understand, that's for officers and SNCO's. You just need them to do.

>>63820409
I've also heard people confusing it with the .50 spotting rifles for the 105 recoilless gun and that sounds more like iffy due to it being a explosive round and you shouldn't try and use it when that could invite counter fire to your very unprotected gun

>>63820460
If you'd had an extra mag you might have lived.

>>63820460
Seconding this. Am prepared to throw hands about this subject.

>>63820475
Bayonets don't need ammo.

>>63820475
My life isn't the priority here. Fun fact, your officer can order you to die.

>>63820483
They do reduce you to getting hand to hand with somebody who might still have ammo
WW1 settled the stabby vs machinegun debate

>>63820494
Moments of sudden stabbing have worked for the Brits in OIF and Frogs in Yugoslavia. I think a bong also won a VC for doing a solo bayonet charge of an Afghan fighting pit.

Also, it helps for crowd/prisoner control. Were just monkeys while having a gun pointed at you is scary, a gun with a knife on the end is even scarier.

Look, basically, the moderate position is that if you're against this, you're a gay-communist who hates western tradition.

>>63819792
You're right, nothing ever happens to people at night.

>>63820509
>gay-communis
is there any other type?

>>63819851
>>also we used to give skeet shooters shotguns to shoot grenades flying towards the trenches
I think that someone is supposed to have done something like that once? Not standard procedure I think.

>>63820494
You don't bring a bayonet for machineguns, you bring it for the guys in the hole/box/field. Plenty of opportunities in Ukraine right now.

>>63814676 (OP)
"For Mil/LEO only!":
subsonics
"military calibers" (god's four-five wasn't though???)
muzzle devices
plain uniform shirts or pants
any assisted any opening knife
deactivated anything (only takes a welder y'know)
training manuals (???)
armorer's toolkit issued thing for m16/m4

"Banned by the Geneva Convention":
literally fucking anything

>>63820122
But I was told by a fat Spaniard on /pol/ that I will go to prison for life for shooting a wild Jamal breaking into my house!

>>63820587
What the fuck is the formatting on your post? Are these all list items or is there commentary too?

>>63820595
I'm just like... super fuckin high watching home videos of old gun shows man.

>>63820518
But if you can’t see a person to the point you have to draw your gun and use your gun-mounted flashlight, how do you even know you need to draw on them? I thought you’re not supposed to point a gun at someone unless you intend to shoot.
If you can’t see them, how do they see you?
What about a scenario where you draw on them but they’re not a threat and now you just pointed a gun in someone’s face? This is why a regular flashlight would be preferable.
I struggle to imagine a likely scenario where a flashlight on a gun is necessary or at least preferable to a standalone flashlight.

>>63820604
Night time, now blinded asshole. Can't see gun. Can't see you. Just former easy pickins turned into scary light and shouting.
Run black man, run.

>>63817328
That sounds like some kind of actual pathological liar, that's a wild claim of him to make.

>>63820604
What if you're in a power outage?
What if I don't want to focus on holding a light and holding my gun?
What if I want to blind the guy so I can get a shot while he's distracted?

>>63820608
>>63820626
Why blind him if you can just shoot him?

>>63820651
So I can shoot him while he's blind, duh.

>>63820451
You're an idiot. The bayonet is unlikely to be used for combat by the vast majority of soldiers ever, but that doesn't mean that it will never serve any purpose, and since we already solved bayonets as a whole by just making a soldier's general utility field knife attach like a bayonet (rather than having a special little sword or long spike you had to carry as a separate item, like in the olden days), there's zero reason for him to not have one.

You're probably never going to affix a bayonet in the field, but goddamn if I won't argue to the death that your field utility knife should be affixable as one, just in case.

>>63820460
>>63820478
Thanks, lads.

>>63820475
>>63820451
>>63820483
This is all completely besides the point.

>>63820561
Among other things.

>>63820418
>but I was in nam and the ammo crates came in saying clips
wasn't 5.56 pre-loaded into clips to make reloading magazines easier?

>>63814794
why the fuck are revolvers so expensive?

$650 for a 22lr revolver, or $300 for a 380 semi auto? what the fuck?

>At gunshow (where else?)
>one of the booths is nothing but shotguns
>tacticool Shockwaves and the like with foregrips or that crazy chainsaw handle pumps
>check sights on one of the more "normal" ones
>there is no sight, no bead dot, nothing
"How do you aim this thing?"
>"You don't sonny"
>"Whereever you point that there flashlight on the end that's where the shot is gonna go"

It'd be my luck I'd try some shit like that and the buckshot just goes into the nearest wall. Its not like a bead dot would obstruct anything

>>63820709
Yes they were, I got my hands on the feed tab to do that and makes my life easier.

I also wouldn't be surprised if some dip thought he could just stop issuing troops more than one mag and then just clips to load it.

>>63820738
>I also wouldn't be surprised if some dip thought he could just stop issuing troops more than one mag and then just clips to load it.
I believe that’s actually what Aussies were doing at the beginning of Nam.
A large amount of their ammo was carried in clips.

>>63820709
5.56mm to this day still comes in ten round clips, and the military cans still come with those shitty Vietnam era bandoliers. Not knowing this is a big tell that somebody hasn't seen the inside of a packed military 5.56 ammo can.

>>63820727
For the sake of argument, you really pretty much can point a shotgun and just use the barrel itself for the point of reference.

>>63820681
Military bayonets make terrible utility knives. Anyone who carries and actually uses a utility knife is going to use something else.

>>63820709
Every Nam picture goes so hard. The combination of WWII surplus and high grade explosives never gets old

>>63820758
Very true! Though this fellow is insisting firing it from the hip, I should have clarified in my original post

>>63820792
Wasting a home intruder with a hip fired shotgun is the ultimate boomer fantasy. And of course he waits until the intruder is all the way in the house before firing, otherwise castle doctrine may not apply.

>>63820738
I'm name people were actually loading mags off clips fairly often. At least with M14s

>>63820651
>>63820651
How the fuck did I scare him away because I was brandishing officer, he was fucking blind.

>>63820803
>inside
lol no. Boomers want to shoot someone on the driveway and then drag them inside. They brag about this fantasy so often.

>>63820757
>Not knowing this is a big tell that somebody hasn't seen the inside of a packed military 5.56 ammo can.
this isnt the own you think it is

>>63820891
I think he was referring to the fudd's original claim about 'nam, implying he was just a fridge mechanic or something (highly likely)

>>63820887
They also brag about carrying a revolver so if they shoot in self defense, they won’t leave any brass behind. As if the whole world isn’t being recorded

The boomers and fudds are right you don't really need anything more than a lil revolver for self defense everything else is cope no you're not going to get in a gun fight with 3 armed joggers

>>63820988
>no you're not going to get in a gun fight with 3 armed joggers
Yes I am.

>>63820988
Nice try, jogger.

>>63820760
Depends on the model. Thank you procurement.

>>63820847
Which is fine, depending on the scenario, at base is fine, in the field is sub optimal.

>>63820350
>>63820348
>>63820372
Actually had a Major running a legal briefing on the laws of war repeat that idiocy.

>>63815030
The cost difference in ammo between .50BMG and 30-06 or 7.62 is minimal. Especially when you compare to the risk to mission and friendly loss of life and equipment that might occur if you don't shoot.

>>63821168
>cost difference in ammo between .50BMG and 30-06 or 7.62 is minimal.
You are as high as fuck right now. 7.62x51mm is $0.85 per round
m855 is $0.60
50BMG is FOUR DOLLARS EACH, and thats bulk retail

>>63821223
>50BMG is FOUR DOLLARS EACH, and thats bulk retail
literally just ordered some and it is cheaper than that, it wasn't even bulk

numerous /k/ posters have told me not to load a full mag + 1
not sure what that's about

>>63821227
forgot pic

>>63821230
In capacity restricted states the wording of the law is that the firearms should only have x amount. so if the limit is 10 and you have a 10 round mag plus one they can ding you off of that.

>>63821223
you are penny pinching like a retard. sWe are taking government use, even at 4-5x the per round cost, use the M2 to avoid paying $500,000 life insurance per friendly death and hundreds of thousands in equipment damage.

>>63820727
time to git gud scrubalub
https://youtu.be/1ioRJOALan4?t=147

>>63821230
>don't load full mag+1
…?
Obviously don't overfill your magazine. A magazine might fit an extra, but you are risking bending something or damaging the spring.

For +1 in the chamber for CCW? You do you.

>>63821223
>You are as high as fuck right now. 7.62x51mm is $0.85 per round
>m855 is $0.60
>50BMG is FOUR DOLLARS EACH, and thats bulk retail
Sorry anon, but other anon is correct in a MILITARY CONTEXT though of course would be wrong in a civilian context. In the military context, your figures for cost there don't include "shipping and handling :^)", ie, the cost in logistics to get something 6000 fucking miles into a jungle or remote desert or wherever it is the military is fighting, and keeping those supply lines protected from attack/sabotage/malfunction and so on and so forth, and being able to have flexibility for weapons issues and force redeployment and on and on. It's not coming on the fedex truck to a suburb in "7-10 business days" for your range trip in a month.

It's the same reason the army has completely standardized for fuel on JP8 and the old ideas of running on whatever aren't a thing. Yeah it's more expensive per gallon, but it's absolutely worth it for the standardization, reduced maintenance and so on. The dominating cost is logistics not unit cost.

You could right say though that the reverse is a source of not just fuddlore but tacticool zoomielore: folks looking at what the military does to fight on the other side of the planet at mass scale with whatever recruits they've got, and then thinking that must be the best thing for them to do as civilians defending their house or own land. What makes sense for one isn't necessarily right for the other and vice versa. There's never a substitute for using your brain.

>>63814676 (OP)
>fuddlore
The Sherman was a good tank

>>63821253
I mean filling the magazine to its standard capacity and having one in the chamber. This is how I've always carried my g42.

>>63821276
Also off topic but fwiw you should be able to do somewhat better on both of those anon and save yourself some money. You should be able to get basic bitch 308 starting around 72cpr, or even cheaper with sales from time to time. 50bmg should be available around 375-380cpr, granted that's pretty close.

>>63821227
>literally just ordered some and it is cheaper than that, it wasn't even bulk
It's available a little cheaper but not THAT much cheaper, and he's right that the difference between 70-someodd and 370-someodd is significant (over 400% (five times) more expensive), not "minimal"... but only if it's the full cost, which is only true if you're within a developed country and have access to a functioning normal shipping network and aren't pressed for time. Like the effective cost to get it to you when you want it is 1000cpr, now the difference is just 28%.

>>63821223
The military pays less than $3 each.

>>63819624
Yes actually, but it's only in super specific cases where it's relevant. The chance of a gun just going click in normal operation is so miniscule as to not be relevant. So the only real advantage a revolver has in terms of reliability is that it's much harder to stop it from firing via mechanical force. IN other words, it's fairly easy to push the slide back and cause a failure to fire, either by someone grabbing the gun or attempting to contact fire or shoot through a jacket pocket. It is MUCH harder to stop the cylinder from rotating in comparison.

>>63819882
>>Scribble "Not for criminal use" on the side of my gun
>shoot criminal in legitimate self defense
>go to jail for using my gun against a criminal, violating the terms of service

>pump shotgun for home defense because the sound of racking the slide will make intruders run away.
so fucking stupid on many levels.

>AK doesn't need to be cleaned

dumbest thing I've ever personally heard someone say besides the obvious dumb shit noguns retards say was when I went to walmart to buy ammo like 12 years ago.
>walk up to counter
>ask fat retard if he has any 7.62x39
>fat retard opens every case, looking around lazily
>spends about 60 seconds looking for it
>finally stumbles around back to the counter and says "I don't think I've ever heard of that caliber, is that new?"
>I laughed out loud and just walked away

>>63821468
This seems like you being an autist anon. Wtf do you expect from some rando normie slob working for minimum wage at fucking WALMART? It's not even an american caliber.

>>63815046
bnuyy :D

>>63821483
shuddup

>>63821483
employees at a store should know where everything is

>>63821402

>>63821454
I swear my dad doesn’t believe in cleaning his guns
>going to range the other day
>ask dad if I can borrow his SP101 for funnsies
>yeah sure anon, it’s the nightstand
>the little revolver was so coated in grime, dust, and pet hair I’m pretty sure the DA wouldn’t even cycle
>took me an hour of scrubbing with a toothbrush and oil to get it clean
This was his damn home defense gun and it arguable wouldn’t even cycle.

>>63821546
did the gun work before you cleaned it?

>>63821468
there are a surprising number of people who get confused or upset for some reason if you shoot something they consider unusual. I remember during the shooting test for my ccw license the boomer teaching it was upset that I wasn't shooting standard 9mm. (he had planned to put dummy 9mm rounds in the middle of our magazines to have us practice clearing the bad round. this was not actually part of the test, just some random exercise he decided he was gonna make us all do. I guess he only had 9mm dummy rounds.)

>>63821528
>300bo super: 49cpr
>300bo subs: 56-65cpr
>commiex39 super: 46cpr
>commiex39 subs: 80cpr
lol should have bought american

>>63821546
I had a similar experience with my stepfather.
He's ex-career-navy.
He has one carry gun, a Sig938, I saw him carrying it for years.
He never cleans it.
I asked him to show it to me one day, he pulls it out of his pocket.
>there is one round in the chamber
>there are zero rounds in the magazine
>he had no idea it was empty
this is the man that is supposed to be protecting my mother.
>gun also had so much debris and lint stuck inside the slide and firing pin that I doubt it would have even set the round in the chamber off.
He also has two rifles
>one AR15 with 16" barrel that looks like it was put together but hellen keller, chinese tacticool shit on every inch of it. scope that has pic rails covering every square inch of it, handguard thats 6" on a 16" barrel
>he has a WWII bring-back K98 from his father that was in immaculate condition that he REBARRELED to .308 and then had some absolute retard drill it for scope mounts

>>63821556
I didn’t full function test it, but when I went to empty his ammo out of it(a combination of bird shit and .38 slugs) the cylinder release barely worked and it barely spun with a gritting noise.

>>63821598
Jesus that’s disgusting. My father has a random collection but has the decency never to mess with his guns. Though he recently bought his first AR. This man drives Lexus’s and Cadillacs, had millions in investments, big house, large collection of expensive watches such, and decides to buy the absolute cheapest $40 red dot sight for it. The rifle itself was a decent PSA classic. I swear this man confuses me. He worships the Warren buffet ideology of be rich and still penny pinch.

>>63815030
>wasting it
The US military regularly dropped $30k JDAMs on sand people for 20 years and you want to get stingy the 50cal ammo. Let the grunts have some fun too.

>Go to sell grandpas 1100 at a gun show
>Get low balled at a couple tables
>Fair price but not enough room for me to make a deal
>Fair enough. Have a good one.
>Looking at some classic revolvers when a boomer next to me sees it starts telling me about how he regrets ever selling his and asks me how much?
>Its yours for $1000 cash or transfer
>Ill give you $750
>No thanks I’m pretty firm on the price. I don’t really need to sell it and it’s fair for the condition
>Okay I’ll give you $1000 but I want to make sure it works
>You can disassemble it and inspect the parts
>Only real way to check is-
>Im not taking you to the range
>Why would I buy something I don’t know for sure works?
>How many sellers here are going to let you shoot any of their guns?
>$900 then
>$1000 firm
>Starting to get annoyed
>Fine I’ll write you a check but don’t deposit it until-
>No checks. Cash or transfer
>What about a cashiers check?
>No
>Cashiers checks are as good as cash!
>They were twenty years ago now I can print one off the internet and have to wait for the funds even if it’s real. Cash or transfer.
>You know people used to do business-
>People used to wipe their asses with corn cobs if you don’t want to transfer you can pay cash and I’m done with the discussion. I can meet you at any ATM you want if it’s an inconvenience
>I don’t use a debit card because I don’t trust technology and the government tracks your-
>Sir we’re done here. Have a nice day.
Sold it same day to another guy that brought his German Shorthair and gave her some jerky.

>>63821691
bro you are severely autistic

>>63821716
I work in a bank. I’ve seen these fuckers place stop payments on checks.

>>63821722
yeah if you think that was the problem it's worse than I thought

>>63821716
Eh, nta but while it certainly sounds more autistic to see it all written out like that nothing there strikes me as unreasonable. Some people want to bargain but these days usually that's specified, like "$1000 obro", and it's both common and a good idea to be careful about payment methods. Also may just be that you simply don't feel like dealing with alternates (like making accounts or something). If you're running an actual store or doing enough transactions that it's like, actually a livelihood or something, then you can afford and want to get every last potential customer and accept a ton of payment, but if you're just one dude looking to maybe clear out some stuff you don't use much anymore then "I take X, Y, or cash" is fine. If someone really wants it these aren't high hurdles.

If they fuck around on paying you that's a huge red flag right there, it's not worth the hassle. Somebody else will pay it no trouble, or won't in which case oh well, it didn't sell.

>>63821284
That's not fuddlore.

>>63820988
Waste of the holy dubs. Bernie Goetz just had his revolver to deal with 5 pavement apes in the 80s.

>>63815210
>hammer down
>cross-draw holster
You're a madman, I love it. round chambered?

>>63815806
>Do you have any idea how many Krauts, Japs, Gooks, and Towlies have been cut apart with Fiddy Browning?
Not nearly enough

>>63822137
yea. I've had to draw it twice at work. one time I had the slack out of my trigger and almost ended a very very drugged out man who was about to kill one of my guys. Thankfully me screaming like an autist got him to comply

>>63822183
What do you do for work? I've been on some ghetto ass jobsites but normally just shouting and raising a hammer in the direction of the bums& jigaboos does the trick

>>63821768
First he tried to negotiate and I wasn’t interested in negotiating. $250 isn’t a huge jump but hey haggling is haggling I didn’t get annoyed at that just held firm. Then he wanted to test it which was more hassle than I wanted to deal with and if you’ve ever chambered an 1100 you know it’s a finger biter and I didn’t want to deal with this tard trying to finger fuck the gun and back out when it gets caught after losing range fees for something he might just back out of after taking it for a joy ride for nostalgia. Maybe he was just looking for a new shooting buddy but I have a kid and no time to pal around with crusty grandpa. Him telling me not to deposit the check until a specific date tells me he didn’t have the funds to cover it right then and there and was likely to bounce or give him ample time to put a stop payment in essentially buying a $1000 shotgun for a $30 stop payment fee. Fuck that. Then he offered a cashiers check which he wasn’t going to get on a Sunday which means he wanted to do the transaction later and I’d have rather just sold the gun that day if possible. I’d have considered a standing offer and taken his contact info if he hadn’t been so fucking aggravating leading up to this.

>>63821691
>$900 then
>$1000 firm

You had it in in the bag

>>63822274
No lowball offers. I know what I got.

>>63821768
The problem that he (and you apparently) missed is that the individual in question clearly had no intention of buying the gun at that price. Further interaction with either a scammer or lookie-Lou was just a waste of time and reeks of social incompetence.

>>63820076
>t. wristlet who can't shoot 10mm

>>63819957
Obviously you've never been to South Africa

>>63822349
No that’s what I figured was happening. Either he didn’t have any intention of buying and just wanted to play with it, didn’t have the money, was going to drag me through some boomer rigmarole to drop the price when I was away from other potential buyers, was trying to get me to hold it until payday, or it was a scam. Red flags all over.

>>63822430
Why is it so hard for them to just say “I can only do $750 today but I can do $1000 on Friday if you’ll hold it?”

>>63820348
I was told this in the military as well.
>”shoot the boats, not the sailors”
Seems to nearing a century old and still alive into the 21st century

>>63822627
>Ack-shually in the reports we put down that we were shooting at their AK and missed!

>>63820494
How about shovels vs shotguns?

>>63822022
And it just worked.

>>63822635
This was controversial back when Mush Morton gunned liferafts back in the pacific.

>>63822652
Well, shotguns tend to be really good at killing people, and also animals, and while you can do that with a shovel too, the shotgun is much faster and better at it, and can do it at a distance.
The shovel, meanwhile, is good at digging and shoveling stuff, something that the shotgun is just not any good at doing at all.

It's a wash.

>>63822193
>Offer to buy shotgun at a $100 discount
>Agree to buy shotgun for asking price
>On the condition you get to test it at the range
>Con seller into paying range fee
>Take your new toy out for a spin
>Pay him in check
>Cancel check
>Zoomer faggot just gave you a free gun and afternoon of sporting clays
Basado

>>63822746
>Dudley Walker Morton (July 17, 1907 – October 11, 1943), nicknamed "Mushmouth" or "Mush", was a submarine commander of the United States Navy during World War II. He was commander of the USS Wahoo (SS-238) during its third through seventh patrols.
>the USS Wahoo

>>63821558
I went to my ccw range with a Kel-Tec P32. The geriatric running the class looked at me like I set his dog on fire. I shot 3rd best in a room of 26 people with the cheapest, smallest gun there.

>>63821596
>he defines fun by how many pennies he can pinch
OK, kike

>bullpups are bad because... they just are ok???
>[proceeds to list outdated reasons if pressed]

>>63820726
from a machining standoint, revolvers are more complex to manufacture. more moving parts and stuff like cylinder alignment has tighter tolerances than most parts on a semi auto.

>>63814905
to play devils advocate there, you are losing pretty much any self defense case you have if you use a 50 cal rifle
that gives the other side so much ammunition in court and its going to make you look like a maniac that doesnt belong in society to the jury

>>63824367
I heard they suck to shoulder and fire if you're not a manlet, that true?

>>63820726
>why the fuck are revolvers so expensive?
You have to time the parts to make sure the bullet's in front of the mouth of the barrel every time. Means that all of the lock work need to be timed.
The gap between the cylinder and barrel mouth has to be minimized while it still needs enough room to rotate, so the cylinder axis and the cylinder face both have to be perpendicular to the barrel.

A simple blow back semi, meanwhile, has one long coil spring.

>>63822193
Yes? That's what I was saying, sounds perfectly reasonable to me. He had a firm price, made that clear and other dude still tried to fuck around, and then cause hassle on payment. Not worth it.

>>63824484
HERE WE GO AGAIN

>>63824484
>you are losing pretty much any self defense case you have if you use a 50 cal rifle

>>63822652
Why not both?

>>63814905
strictly speaking there is actually an argument to be made that in the same way certain small arms rounds are restricted from use against personnel due to causing unnecessary suffering (re: hollowpoints) by the hague convention that the law of armed conflict actually *does* restrict use of 50 caliber rounds against personnel because it was in fact adopted for use against light vehicles and other materiel targets.

This is the same reason it's legal in some cases to use WP rounds for obscuration but illegal to use them for effects on enemy personnel. Likewise it's legal to use incendiary grenades or flamethrowers to destroy material or scuttle equipment to prevent its capture but to use incendiaries against personnel is generally regarded as a violation of the "undue suffering" test by most military lawyers today.

Of course there is the practical question about whether that restriction even applies because if your opponent is not a lawful combatant adhering to the LoAC you aren't bound to adhere to the same in fighting them. Likewise, if you're the big swinging dick only superpower in the world killing dirt farmers, nobody's going to actually meaningfully enforce (re: do more than complain about) international laws about armed conflict against you so it's kinda a moot point.

LoAC just exists as a pretense for the U.S. to justify regime change against people they don't like.

>>63824989
HE PROBABLY MEANT TO RESPONDE TO THE OTHER ANON THAT (yOU)'D HIM
caps was on, dont care to rewrite this lol

>>63815889
>There's also the ever prescient gem where doomers/defeatists/shills insist that if you ever blast a nignog in self-defense it means automatic court rape and riots.

Well that technically depends on the state. NY is notorious for fucking people over who engage in self-defense. There are recent examples like Daniel Penny and that old man who stabbed the nog trying to rob his Bodega. Yes, they eventually got away with it, but only after being dragged through the mud. There's also the fact that simply having a charge on your record for felony assault, even if it is later dismissed on the grounds of self-defense, can be used as reason to deny concealed carry permits. Some guy in a rural Republican county shot a black intruder and was eventually cleared of any wrong doing. Yet that shooting was used as a reason to reject his CCW. Bruen means fuck all in NY. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_5Hrks6Md8

>>63814805
no fudd lore but i have a fudd story

>be
>been going to a gun show in my hometown for over a decade and a half
>always see the same old guys with their ww2 collection
>has M1919, transferable MG42, johnson rifles, etc
>everything on the table has been the same every year
>they never sell anything I swear
>make a 100$ bet with my buddy that if I offer him his sticker price that he wont even sell it to me
>sticker price is 6 grand
>friend calls bullshit
>run several blocks away to a ATM I can withdraw from without fees
>take out 6000 cash
>run back to show
>start asking some questions to old fudd sitting at a table on oxygen with johnson rifle on display
>he rambles on for 10+ minutes about muh two world wars
>eventually say id like to buy it and whip out 6 bands
>fudd is speachless
>stares at me for like 30 seconds
>says he would have to think about it
>mfw
>tell him i will circle back later
>look at the rest of the tables and then come back
>sticker is gone and he says its not for sale
>mfw collect 100 dollars and no johnson gun

>>63820372
During my "conscription" (actually just 4 months) in the Danish army, we were told that the .50 cal hmg was an antimaterial weapon only, but that bad guys often tended to cover behind material.

I don't know if the actual soldiers got told something else when the continued after conscription, but us conscripts got told in a lesson on base that particular piece of fuddlore.

>>63821284
It would be the opposite. The amount of times I've seen the "I met a German tanker in ________ and he said we'd always shoot one sherman, but 10 more would show up!". Then there's the "They sent our boys over in inferior tanks, shame on them!". So this post is definitely bait, but I like to hear myself talk-or type in this situation.

>>63829907
I think the Danes did explicitly use AP ammo in their Brownings. It does work on soviet APCs after all.

>>63831801
The Sherman was objectively mostly decent, particularly after the wet ammo storage upgrade, which made crew survivability above average. It was also widely available and easy to keep running, so American soldiers could very often count on some working tanks coming to give them heavy support.

Didn't maybe have the biggest and meanest gun necessary fight a German Tiger or anything, but the Americans fought like, one or two Tigers in the entire war (one which was stuck on a rail car). American tank crew were paranoid about running into one, but fortunately for them they virtually never ever did.

>>63828734
It’s been a while since I heard about it, but did New York ever change their permit laws from “may issue” to “shall issue”. I remember reading somewhere about how they can just say
>nope you can’t have one, you don’t have a good enough reason despite having a perfectly clear background

>>63814676 (OP)
Maaa glawk is with da fibre battery holo sight and ma glawk has muh expendo magazine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwR1-aRTyyM

>>63814676 (OP)
>the kar98 was better than the Garand, because semi-autos jam way more than manually cycled guns.

>>63816944
>>63816987
It actually does. That's why smoothbore guns have slightly higher velocity, imparting spin takes a small amount of linear velocity out of the bullet which is lossily converted into angular velocity. If you impart lots of spin unto a bullet on purpose, you increase it's centrifugal force, to the square of the increase in angular velocity.
Centrifugal force influences expansion, that's why every 8.6 shill makes a clear gel expansion test, to make the round look really good.
But the higher the twist, the lower the yield for a given amount of gas, because the extra friction robs energy. That extra friction also causes lower barrel life.

>>63819624
Yes, and any retard telling you otherwise is a liar.
Revolvers take away the variable of powder burn from the equation of cycling since they are manually cycled. As a result, they are inherently more reliable than pistols, just like a bolt action is more reliable than a semi-auto.
This doesn't mean modern semis are unreliable.

>>63831883
Supreme Court told them to cut their bullshit, but New York continues kicking and screaming about it.

>racking a shotgun is enough to scare off a burglar

>>63822671
He got lucky, they're a cowardly lot and scattered when he resisted. One wasted shot or squib load and it would've been all over for him.

>>63831933
Kar98 did more damage in the original CoD

>>63834889
No bullshit, I was at a gander mountain in Duluth like ~20 years ago and one of the guys at the counter racked a Mossberg. A woman walking by cringed and said she hated that sound. The clerk responded "so do criminals" and everyone lol'd

>>63834969
woman was a criminal obviously

>>63834904
Then the New Yorker should have done a New York Reload.

>>63831883
>did New York ever change their permit laws from “may issue” to “shall issue”

No. The supreme court told NY they can no longer deny permits because an applicant has not proven a "genuine need" to carry a gun. So now NY just denies permits based on "moral character." You were arrested 30 years ago for something that was eventually dismissed? Sorry, no permit for you (this isn't hyperbole, it actually happens).

>>63820988
3 armed noggers however...

>>63821237
the fuck they can, show us a conviction.

>>63832117
NY basically banned concealed carry everywhere except certain sidewalks. 99% of the state is now a "sensitive location."

>>63814837
Trannies?

>>63820518
It's statistically the safest time of the whole day because the sun can't impart his evil rays upon us

>>63820373
I do. I've never had to shoot someone but I have had to beat somone's brain in with my 4-D maglite. Stopped him right in his tracks. Then the maglite can light up a whole room for as long as the batteries last, which with four d-cells in there is quite some time, whereas a gun can only light up a room for a fraction of a second at a time 6 to 10 or so times. gun can only do one thing, maglite can do two, possibly three things if I need to use it as a hammer. I know which one I'm picking.

>>63814676 (OP)
A classic fudd lore people still belive:

"5.56 guns aren't effective under 10 inches"

These same people push 9mm PCCs, MP5s and 300 Blackout. A 7.5" AR-15 in 5.56 is a better weapon than an MP5 with respect to killing people in defensive scenarios. This will make people seethe but look at the ballistic math both terminal and trajectory

>>63836361
The whole "not effective" trend was started by dick guzzling min/maxers and their opinions should be disregarded on principal.

>>63836361
>A classic fudd lore people still belive:
>"5.56 guns aren't effective under 10 inches"
>posts pic of autistically short 5.56 gun loaded with what appears to be 55 gr

you have an effective fragmentation range of 50 yards, maybe less

if you go shorter than an 11.5, you need to choose another caliber

>>63836428
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CpUDT-XLQMc

>>63836428
BETTER THAN AN MP5!
>defensive scenarios
>greater than 50 yards
Nah

>>63814676 (OP)
>Extremely high twist rates (1:5 and beyond) have no measurable - significant - positive effect on external or terminal ballistics of the projectile.

>>63836361
They'll be plenty effective. Even 55gr from a 10.5" barrel is going to kick 5.7mm's ass six ways from Sunday, but you do get a loud and blasty as fuck gun in return.

>>63836428
You are literally wrong on the terminal ballistics, the icepicking from short barrels starts happening at longer ranges than that.
Now, something like a 9mm or .45 carbine can feel more appealing in comparison because you can have one which is short and handy, MP5 or MP5k sized, and it's going to have alright ballistics (for what it is), while not thundering like a beast.

You can suppress a stubby 5.56mm to reign in the blast, but then you've got a longer gun anyway. Meanwhile, it doesn't take much length or volume to suppress a 9mm or .45 if you wanted to make one which isn't loud at all, but even without a suppressor it's going to be a fraction of the light, sound, and shockwave.
There's appeals in the pistol caliber carbines.

>>63820358
Feels good

>>63814676 (OP)
>AR in AR-15 stands for ain't reliable

>>63836383
Go back to your decrepit underground den, you filthy moleman.

>>63836648
Death to skybacks!

>>63836689
I accidentally replied to the wrong post, yet accidentally replied to the same moleman?

>>63836559
you are confusing ice picking and a bullet simply not fragmentating, ice picking is when there is no longer a secondary cavity (below ~2300 fps)

>>63836728
Nah, just been around far too long

>>63836739
Right, but my point still stands.

>>63836756
im not arguing against your point that 9mm and 45 PCCs are fine, they are

5.56 is shit out of anything shorter than 11.5, its just true

>>63836559

>>63836856
note that this is muzzle velocity, and will drop FAST with distance

>>63836361
>>63836856
>>63836864
im not a woman so im not great at eyeballing inch measurements, but it appears as thought anon has a 7.5 on there

which means bro is getting this ammount of fragmentation at point blank, marked in red

and at 50 yards marked in blue

"hollowpoints work via soundwaves" said by a boomer jew ffl I used to work for. Moron also thought you had to be 21 to buy a long gun with an adjustable or folding stock, glock was the most sued gunmaker and that 5.45 worked in a 5.56 cause "it fit in the mag". Guy was also a die hard sig shill who never shot his gun and carried with a empty chamber. Guy also insisted that ammo and even guns bought at other stores like academy was of inferior quality and that we were a "first quality" company. He Believed such "lower" quality ammo was downloaded and would somehow wear out your gun faster. This jew didn't believe in computers and would bitch and moan about having to use a computer for NICS and only bought shit from distributors who he could talk to people on the phone with, insisting that this somehow gave him a special relationship.

>>63836836
>5.56 is shit out of anything shorter than 11.5, its just true
For field operations where you may be trading shots at range with other riflemen, perhaps.

I have mentioned this before, I saw it on a documentary
>One of the main reasons that the German's lost the Battle of Stalingrad was because their main SMG used for clearing rooms was the MP40 which had a long magazine and made it unsuited for prone firing, meanwhile the Soviets had the PPsH-40 which had a shorter magazine and allowed them to go prone and fire much easier

>>63836935
That's perhaps the silliest fucking Silver Bullet theory I've ever heard of.

>>63836929
even at close range, the difference between a 7.5 and 11.5 will be devastating

a long barrel will ALWAYS be more terminally effective than a short barrel, no matter the range, it just works that way, especially with 5.56

>inb4 if you have a 69 inch barrel its gonna create drag on the bullet and slow it down
yeahbut were talking barrel lengths that exist and people actually use

>>63836935
considering submachine guns were issued to maybe one in a dozen men, or perhaps a few more in the case of stalingrad, I dont think a couple inches of magazine length made the difference

>>63836949
Yeah I can't even remember where I saw it. It was one of the famous WW2 documentaries I think. The World At War or The Price of Empire I forget which.

>>63836968
I can't remember exactly what they said but it was something like that kek. That basically German troops weren't really equipped to fight mass urban battles while the Soviets were because they gave SMGs to everybody and Germans mostly had rifles and a fee guys and on top of that the MP40 wasn't designed for such combat so forced them to kneel rather than lie prone.

>>63836976
somebody here probably knows

this may be fudd lore, but I have been told and always believed germans issued submachine guns mainly to officers, NCOs, tank/vehicle crews, military police, special units etc etc

basically if you didnt have a reason to have a smg, you most likely had a rifle

>>63836976
>>63836994
i can definitely see how it is a couple inches higher than the ppsh, but if you have any sort of cover it doesnt seem like it matters, only if you are laying prone in the complete open, and even then if there is any deep snow or tall grass you will need to rise off the ground slightly to take a deliberate shot

>>63836935
honestly if I was in stalingrad I would be stoked to have either a ppsh or mp40 instead of a mosin or kar98

>>63836960
>the difference between a 7.5 and 11.5 will be devastating
Greater difference than discussed, and it's still going to have strong terminal effect at 10.5" within 25yds, which is longer than HD distances.

>>63837047
>home defense

>>63814940
>Use red dot and extended mag in self defense scenario
>Take it off before the cops arrive on scene to assess the situation
Wow, that was so fucking hard....

>>63819537
NTA, but it was designed to be carried with one in the chamber and the hammer down. The Army moved over to cocked and locked due to cavalrymen repeatedly ND'ing into everything within sight by attempting to decock the hammer while simultaneously managing a horse, which is what the thumb and grip safeties were supposed to negate the need for in the first place. Want to safe your weapon while your horse is acting up? Engage the thumb safety (or don't), holster (or don't, that's why the grip safety is there), and get the horse under control and then decock when you no longer need a hand on the reins.

If you're not a retarded cavalryman, hammer down is fine. Note that the early wide hammer with the long spur was made this way to facilitate thumbing it back with the firing hand, so if you have something newer and cooler, you may need to modify your technique.

>>63837033
If I was in Stalingrad, I would have been happy to have gotten a gun or food at all

>>63837090
That's something which people sometimes do, yes.

>>63837090
Lower powered 5.56 out of a shorter barrel is an incredible choice for home defense
In shorter barrels 5.56 isn't a weak rifle cartridge. It's a magnum PDW cartridge

>>63824484
You’re a fucking idiot. Show me just a single self defense case that was turned into a murder because of “too much gun”? Just one.

There’s justifiable lethal force and there’s not. There isn’t a scale that says 5.56 is fine but a .50 means you weren’t defending yourself. Seriously, ask yourself how stupid that sounds.

>>63814940
This. The permanently online blackpilled crowd contributes as much as anything.

>>63837120
This is almost as retarded a canned response as the fudd/zoomielore it's replying to. Here's what you actually do:
>Use red dot and extended mag in self defense scenario
>don't do anything or hide anything because you have nothing to worry about
>call 911
>call family/friends
>cops show up
>identify yourself, show you're home owner, if using an NFA weapon have stamp ready
>say they broke in and you feared for your life/property
>don't say anything else
>don't give permission for anything
>get a lawyer if necessary or they ask for more
>they almost certainly won't
>go on with your life

>>63834904
He shot one of them in the spine leaving them in a wheelchair. If you were only armed with a screwdriver and watched your buddy get crippled for life right next to you, you would run away too. Hell you'd probably run even if you had a gun.

>>63814676 (OP)
>9mm is too small for pistols
>30 cal is perfect for rifles
>9mm is .355 cal
I wish they at least knew what they act

>>63838763
actually like*

>>63838763
>>9mm is .355 cal
It is though

>>63838763
Rifle bullets ≠ pistol bullets

>>63838763
>9mm is too small for pistols
>30 cal is perfect for rifles
Both of these are indeed stupid, however:
>9mm is .355 cal
You implying an equivalency between handgun and rifle cartridges is just as fucking stupid, holy shit. Do you even have any guns? Like, even knowing almost nothing just looking at bullet weights and velocities alone should give you some sort of hint.

>>63838796
>>63838808
>>63838832
Found the boomers.

>>63838975
>merely pretending

>>63814676 (OP)
There are only four calibers, the rest are gimmicks sonny.
.45
.357
.44
.30-06

>>63838975

>>63838997
>>63839126
Nah, you just think that a .30 cal hole is dependent on what makes it. .30 cal ventilating you is good enough, regardless of what is stamped on the case.

>>63839216
Magnificent show

>>63839216
Ah I see, you're legitimately retarded not pretending. Thanks for clearing that up. Feel free to next regale us with stories (lies) about all the deer and bighorn you've hunted with .355"x19mm though.

>>63815438
>Paul Harrel speaks to this, btw. He took two lives in self defense on separate occasions.
and one of those was with an AR in a much less friendly gun climate than today. Paul has no basis for this mindset.

>>63835334
Grim

>>63838738
Pretty much this. If you are in the rare situation of gunning down a home intruder you just have to sit back and go along for the ride. Just clear your weapon, clear your schedule, and wait for the cops to pass you around the court system for a month. There’s a lot of formalities that you’ll have to go through, even when you’re 100% in the right. Shit just sucks. But you’re still better off than the dude bleeding out on the carpet so.

>>63838763
Service pistols by necessity can only really have so much velocity for practical reasons, because they're pistols with pistol length barrels, thus they need to make up the difference best they can with a larger and heavier bullet.

In my opinion, a 124gr 9mm going ~1200fps is really pretty adequate in terms of weight and speed particularly with a good bullet, though I can see why some would want a larger and heavier projectile like with .45 (230gr at 850fps) or something like that.
The smallest projectile I would be comfortable with for a sidearm would be 7.62mm, and that's if you hotrod it, ergo 7.62mm Tokarev, commonly an 85gr projectile going ~1400fps but maybe as high as ~1500fps.
A rifle easily achieves a LOT more speed, so 5.56mm having just a 55gr bullet is ok, because it rockets that fucker out to around 3000fps. For pistols, this diameter of bullet doesn't cut it for me, a 40gr 5.7mm can do 1700fps from a pistol, which really isn't enough speed to make that lightweight bullet really worthwhile to me. At least for combat purposes.

If you want to try to get something that gives you even just comparable energy to a 5.56mm rifle but in a pistol, you need not just a LOT of speed, but also a heavier bullet than that because again, barrel length, thus you're looking at a Dirty Harry style Magnum handgun like .44 Magnum (240gr doing 1450fps), or .45 WinMag (230gr doing 1600fps). Naturally, you pay for that with much more recoil and much more noise and blast, and there's no high capacity options for this kind of handgun, at least that I know of.

Just for the fun of it (to me anyway), if you wanted projectile weight comparable to the .44 and .45, but with projectile speed like the 5.56mm, you would be looking at a big bad Magnum hunting rifle caliber like .30 Nosler, which drives a 210gr .308 caliber projectile to 3000fps, a true Grizzly Bear gun.

>>63840147
Actually, thinking about it a little, I imagine that a hypothetical .44 Magnum or .45 Winmag necked down to .223 caliber could maybe actually match, or at least come close, to a .223 rifle but from like a 6" or 8" barreled handgun, but I've never seen this done, so I couldn't ever say that definitely.

Would probably be unreasonably loud.

>>63839612
>and wait for the cops to pass you around the court system for a month. There’s a lot of formalities that you’ll have to go through, even when you’re 100% in the right
Yeah, though even this is pretty state/region dependent. In some blue state big city? Sure. In a small town rural area of a defense friendly state where your family has been for 3 generations and the chief of police and county prosecutor have been coming over to your father's annual summer bbq for decades, and the cops (who you all know) arrive at 2 in the morning to find you and your wife/kids barricaded on the second floor and the dead not-from-around-these-parts gentleman with a previous felony conviction and active parole violation on the first floor? The "investigation" is going to take a few minutes, a bunch of which will be spent telling you you did the right thing and not to be too shook up and they're glad you're ok, hope to see you at the range this weekend. The prosecutor's review will take approximately 45 seconds, a sizable portion of which will be letting you know that Martha wants your mother's key lime pie recipe.

Not to say at all you should ever treat the situation casually, you should be serious about it. But the blackpillers spend too much time theorycrafting doom fantasies and treating life like a single player postapoc video game. Probably a certain degree of overlap with misanthrope theorycraft larpers who spend 5 figures on fancy gear and zero figures on being involved with their community, making social connections or learning any useful crafts.

>>63834904
>He got lucky
Since you're saying he got lucky, where are all of the cases of unlucky average Joes who were not able to defend themselves with only 5 rounds?

>>63815210
You don't open carry right anon?

>>63814676 (OP)
> ak is undestructible and doesnt need cleaning
> they made mercury laced bullet that exploded to kill elephant, because mercury explode on impact
> there is no such thing as simple blowback and gaz delay

>>63820409
>All this fuckin fuddlore

Real reason was because macnamaras morons were magdumping 106mm RR spotting rifles at soft targets for shits and giggles

a memo was issued by officer tardwrangler "hey cut that shit out" and some rotc butterbar invented a reason that sounded good to retards for compliance

>>63836922
>only bought shit from distributors who he could talk to people on the phone with, insisting that this somehow gave him a special relationship.
This is actually good boomer advice even if it doesn’t work 100% of the time.

>>63818495
To be fair, the old .45s may have been issued as a logistics problem AND also performed better. There’s no debate that they hit harder than .38s.

Was it because of a single action trigger and longer barrel leading to better accuracy or was it due to the round? Who knows. But this case the “myth” has reality with it.

>>63818495
>>63820263
>>63846033
The M1892 was chambered in .38 Long Colt which was black powder with less case capacity than .38 Special. I could imagine it having penetration issues.

>>63820423
I remember seeing something about the "reason" 22lr kills so many people is because of suicide.
Makes sense to me at least.

>>63824500
6 foot 3. 200 pounds here.
I love bullpups.

>>63845109
Sounds plausible, Project 100 was an eminently awful idea, but I'd love to hear a source for that.

>>63829756
>>take out 6000 cash
>from an ATM
sure.

>>63824500
I'm 5'13 and my keltec shoulders and fires just fine.

>>63820372
Got cattle dying for Israel in brother wars have got to be gullible to begin with, so obviously they aren't high on critical think thinking.

>>63820460
A lot of IJA can relate

>>63820078
Yeah they’re right with this one. Most women can’t understand semi autos for whatever fucking reason. It’s easy, but they’re mentally children. Revolvers are more tactile and think that helps.

>>63848312
I find this is true about half the time.

>you need to spend double the price of the rifle on glass

>>63848342
I can see why some people might think that, but I feel like that may be an axiom to people who like to buy inexpensive rifles.