ITT: Tankies apologize to the F-35 for all they have said about it. Bonus points: You accept that the S-400 was a nothingburger.

>>63824382 (OP)
>You accept that the S-400 was a nothingburger
broofs?

>>63824382 (OP)
i'm sorry lightning 2

but you can't blame us that much since it was literally a decade behind schedule and trillions over budget

>>63824388
recent failures in Iran

>>63824382 (OP)
>The F-35 can pull off a perfidious sneak attack during peacetime
Impressive.

>>63824619
>Iran can't do shit against an attack announced days in advance
FTFY

>>63824619
Is this the cope we're going with?

>>63824619
>AD only works when the enemy tells you they are coming

>>63824619
new cope dropped guys

>>63824619
>IT DOESN'T COUNT BECAUSE I WASN'T READY!

How much of it is due to Israel airforce being the best in the world?

>>63824649
They were warned like a dozen of times.

>>63824382 (OP)
Can you imagine how many hookers and how much blow is gonna flow through Lockmarts HQ in the upcoming weeks ?

>>63824807
200%.
I am sure indians flying F-35 into Iran would fail spectaculary. But Israiles flying only F-15/16 wouldn't be able to achieve same effect, they would be biting on the edges not doing strikes across entire Iran in one go.

>>63824824
>Livestream reaction from LM HQ

>>63824619
Ayatollah Khomeini actually declared war on Israel in 1979 and it has never been rescinded. Why this whole “Iran gonna declare war” shit is so stupid

Maybe Iran itself forgot?

>>63824388
F35s dunked upon airspace it defended twice in less than a year.

>>63824824
AF just halved their preorders this week. So unless they got more sales it doesn't matter how good what they already got paid for dies.

>>63824382 (OP)
Too expensive. A rocket with cluster ai drones will do the job better and cheaper.

>>63826882
>weapon system that is more expensive than a few F-35 sorties and would have been shot down by an S-400 battery would have done the job cheaper and better
You are a dronebrained retard. An actually useful deployment of drones in this scenario would have been covertly from within Iranian borders close to their targets, which Israel supposedly did do anyway.

>>63824382 (OP)
You have to admit, Dassault's and Saab's marketing departments did a phenomenal job convincing normies on leddit and SlopTube that their offerings were as good or better.

>>63827112
I'd say it's less so intentional marketing than it is the intersection of their marketing bids with vatnigger/chinese/contrarian hate for the F-35 in the public space.
And even then, at least Saab shilling sort of made sense when the Gripen E was cheaper than the F-35 (not anymore lmao). The Rafale was always ridiculously expensive for the capability delivered and only worth it for the political considerations.

>>63824619
>during peacetime

>>63825376
>AF was forced to halve their preorders this week.
Fixed. Hegseth hates the air force for some fucking reason

>>63828169
It's because he's a retard.

>>63828169
Because the entire administration are russian and Chinese sock puppets.

>>63824382 (OP)
I don’t need to apologize because I’ve always believed in the F35. Only slack jawed faggots hate it.

>>63824619
>peacetime
Israel and Iran have been in an undeclared state of war for decades.

>>63824382 (OP)
Just shows that you should buy chinese, not russian, as a third world shithole.

>>63824382 (OP)
No. The F35 is still an overpriced & under-capable system. And dunking on inferior A2AD networks doesn't change that. Israel had to clear out Syrian airspace before they could undertake these air raids bc the f35's range required that they refuel near the Iranian border. The chinks stole F35 schematics and came up with a more capable design (albeit with inferior engines). The F35 is going to be a 2nd line unit the 10-15 years when 6th gens start to come online.

>>63829724
okay, chang.

>>63824382 (OP)
>fires stand off from syria and azerbaijan
>HAHA F35 IS GOD

>>63829737
>mad

>>63829724
that’s a lot of words to try to explain away multiple successful deep strikes into a peer’s airspace with zero losses
chinkies can try to steal but will never be able to actually recreate

>>63829724
t. Airforce Finance

>>63829739
>peer airspace
we're still talking about Iran, right?

>>63829752
so you admit russian technology is trash?

>>63829755
Yes?

>>63829762
dishonest zigger

>>63829765
Are you retarded? Fucking genocide every russian on this planet. I'm asking under what fucking sun you think Iranian and Zigger trash is a "peer" to US backed Israel?

>>63824619
>peacetime

This isn't even the first time the Israelis have bombed Iran in the past year.

>>63824382 (OP)
Israel is literally proving us right. look at that loadout.
f-35 is not useful for bombing iran. f-35 is merely escorting the strike force which consists of f-15 and f-16.

>>63829739
PRC may not have western training, doctrine, or engine technology. Yet despite this they managed to field a roughly comparable system just by stripping out all the retardation the pentagon baked into the f35 program.
Trying to build 3 distinct bleeding-edge aircraft from 1 program was never going to work and nerfed all designs from the start. The program never actual succeeded in producing cheap multi-role aircraft that could replace the entire 4th gen fleet (as evidenced by the pentagon now buying new strike eagles). Now 20 years after the JSF program was supposed to start fielding aircraft we are finally getting block 4 units that actually have all the capabilities the air force originally asked for.
The F35 is and will always be a remarkable failure of a program that was only somewhat salvaged through economies of scale and endless US defense budges.

>>63829773
Well if that’s not peer, then the chink shit isn’t peer (I already knew that I just want the shills to confront that reality)
F35 is actually good, and it scares the chinese and russians

>>63829818
bugman

>>63824619
>peacetime

Have you been sleeping under a fucking rock for the past year and a half?

>>63824844
>Ayatollah Khomeini actually declared war on Israel in 1979 and it has never been rescinded.

>be Ayatollah Khomeini
>declare war on Israel
>Iraq turns around declares war on you instead (I know they invaded without an actual declaration, just bear with me for a second)
>"WAAAAAAAHHHHHH SAVE ME ISRAEL!"
>instead of abandoning you to the non-existent mercy of Saddam, the Israelis readily come to your aid, risking endangering their relationship with the United States to do so (well at least until Reagan realized it was the perfect means to finance the Contras)
>Israel provides you with invaluable military aid, from advisors to parts for F-14s that they literally stole from the US Navy
>instead of showing the least bit of gratitude, double down on the malding, turn around and start committing terrorism against Jews worldwide instead (ex. 1994 bombing of the AMIA building in Buenos Aires)

The Ayatollahs are the most ungrateful bunch of sons of bitches on the planet, I swear. Now absolutely fucking hating Americans I understand given that we helped overthrow Mosaddegh, made the Shah our puppet for over 20 years, and then talked Iraq into starting a war against Iran that resulted in millions of deaths while arming both sides. But the Israelis went out of their way to bail Iran's sorry ass out of that mess and got rewarded with a spit in the face.

>>63829835
>The Ayatollahs are the most ungrateful bunch of sons of bitches on the planet, I swear. Now absolutely fucking hating Americans I understand given that we helped overthrow Mosaddegh, made the Shah our puppet for over 20 years, and then talked Iraq into starting a war against Iran that resulted in millions of deaths while arming both sides. But the Israelis went out of their way to bail Iran's sorry ass out of that mess and got rewarded with a spit in the face.
To be fair, I wouldn't be grateful to the Israelis either from their perspective since their mentality was explicitly wishing both sides great success trying to kill each other. Saddam's Iraq curbstomping Iran and becoming a potential hegemon of the Arab world was a nightmare scenario for IDF planners in the 80s, since people didn't realize how outmatched their Soviet equipment was against NATO gear until the Gulf War.

>>63829833
THIS PROGRAM WAS STARTED IN THE EARLY 90's WITH THE GOAL OF FIELDING AN AIRCRAFT IN THE LATE 2000'S. Only the most dedicated paint huffer could characterize block 4 coming out in the 2020's as anything other that a resounding failure.

>>63829840
>since people didn't realize how outmatched their Soviet equipment was against NATO gear until the Gulf War
that's absurd.
IDF fought many wars against Soviet equipment and even Soviet pilots. IDF knew very well about their QME.

>>63829831
Ofc it isn't what even made you think that?

>>63829850
The f35 didn’t come out in the 2020’s, so you’re being dishonest.
Clearly the plane is best in class, doesn’t seem like a failure to me. Just because we’re *maybe* making more f15ex to fill non stealth roles means nothing about the f35

>>63829859
nothing made me think that. Again, shills need to confront. Reality

>>63829861
f-35c cannot replace the f/a-18 because it still lacks any capability to carry weapons that can attack ships. it's a failure.

>>63829868
>f-35c cannot replace the f/a-18 because it still lacks any capability to carry weapons that can attack ships

Like what?

>>63829868
it can just carry them on the pylon?

>>63824649
Why yes. The enemy must use the same path dozens of times in which a lucky shot may be achieved. This lucky shot will then be meme'd time and time again.

>>63829870

>>63829873
no, not certified

>>63829911
leaving out the fact the JDAM could also be used to attack ship, both JSM and LRASM are being integrated on the f-35

>>63824394
The utter fiasco that was the first few years of the JSF program cost several years and several billion dollars, not a decade and trillions--the "$1.5 trillion" is the expected total cost of operating 2,000+ of them for 50+ years. For things like this, it's important to be precise.

>>63829868
JSM? It's literally a NSM that's been cut down in order to fit inside the F-35's bays.

>>63827112
It's more exploitation of recent political-diplomatic events since this year at least, I don't think any actual professional is in doubt of the F-35s superiority

>>63829870
F35-C has half the range of the Super Hornet, it can't carry weapons or fuel externally without compromising radar cross-section. The f35 has a higher maintenance costs. The F35-A has similar deficiencies compared to a modern strike eagle.
>>63829861
>The f35 didn’t come out in the 2020’s
You didn't actually read my post. Block 4 is the upgrade package that brings the F35 up to the specs the Pentagon actually wanted. Previous models lacked various capabilities that will have to be retroactively added to bring the fleet to block 4 standard.
>Clearly the plane is best in class
Never has been, unless you come up with some reason to exclude the F22
>Just because we’re *maybe* making more f15ex
No it's a done deal. These planes are replacing old F15-Cs right now.
>making more f15ex to fill non stealth roles means nothing about the f35
The premise of the JSF program was that they're WEREN'T going to enough roles to justify the existence of a fleet of non-stealthy combat jets. That's why it was necessary to build a family of low-RCS jets to replace all late the late cold-war era designs. The JSF was suposed to be an inexpensive multi-role plane that formed the mass of an air-force, not an high-end speartip the way it's used now. If that was the plan from the get-go, it would have made way more sense to build navalized/multirole/export-friendly designs based on the more capable F22 and continue to upgrade the low-end force with gen4++ designs. It likely would have save a lot of money in the long run. The F35 isn't a failure because it's a bad platform per see, but that it hasn't and will never deliver on the fundamentally flawed concept it's built around.

>>63829868
>>63829911
wrong, here's one carrying 2x agm-158c

>>63830018
oops forgot pic, plz don't bully

>>63829724
>No. The F35 is still an overpriced & under-capable system.
Compared to fucking what? For all its flaws and developmental troubles, it still outclasses all alternatives currently on the market, while being cheaper than some to boot in spite of being a 5th gen competing against 4th gens for contracts.
For Israel to perform the same strikes against Iran or to take out air defense networks they'd need several times more legacy platforms and munitions, which would obviously have cost more.
>And dunking on inferior A2AD networks doesn't change that.
>Russian S-400 and Syrian and Iranian S-300
Again, inferior compared to what? It's not like any F-35 users are planning on going to war with countries equipped with Western air defense systems, except maybe Greece against Turkey. I'm not sure about their radar, but Turkey's best and most numerous long range SAMs are their S-400s.

>>63830034
>For Israel to perform the same strikes against Iran or to take out air defense networks they'd need several times more legacy platforms and munitions, which would obviously have cost more.
bullshit.

see the loadout israel used for the f-35 in >>63829807
you aren't striking any ground targets with that.

>>63830059
look at Israel's f-16s actually carrying a bomb specially made for SEAD which naturally the f-35 cannot even carry

>>63830059
>see the loadout israel used for the f-35 in >>63829807
it can carry two gbu-31's in it's internal weapon bays

>>63830090
you do notice there's already something else in the iwb.
gbu-31 were on Israel's f-15s.

>>63830099

>>63830034
>Compared to fucking what?
Pic related. The arrangement could be made the the J35 is a better design, but the PRC can't into jet engines so it's likely inferior in practice.
Essentially I think the JSF was a flawed concept from the start and all time and money thrown at it could've produced more either more capable or more numerous air frames.
>Again, inferior compared to what?
A better funded force essentially. Iran has a defense budget ~$10 billion/y. A 6th of Russia's pre-war military spending. More money gets you more systems, better training, which matter at least as much as the types of equipment used.

>>63830099
i can't tell what's in the iwb of that one tbqh, but there's a precedent for israelis using jdams on their f-35s to bomb gaza

>>63830108
>plane in hangar
What dark technology this is?
t.russian

>>63824644
does that logic also apply to for the defense against the missiles? Iran announced the last few retaliation events too

>>63826882
>thing that doesn't exist would have done better

>>63830218
>>thing that doesn't exist would have done better
not that anon but f-22 already does better

>>63830206
missiles did nothing. Keep coping, turdie

>>63829724
>Inferior A2AD
Hmm let’s see.
>13th largest military by personnel
>Largest in the Middle East
>Long time regional agitator that uses proxy forces in other countries to cause problems
>With the exceptions of China (too closely tied economically to be a real threat) and Russia (known meme nation at this point just with more resources) pretty much every other nation with a better military is an ally
Literally what the fuck are they going to do about it?
>Overpriced
Fair
>Under capable
Show me something better
>Chinks stole-
The Singaporeans gave it to them flat out and we should have sanctioned their asses for it.
>More capable design
No
>6th Gen
Which you will also call over priced and under-capable because you’re a retard.

>>63830471
Yeah that guy is a clown. His whole argument is twisted mental gymnastics
>strikes deep in enemy territory against the top of the line air defense it was built to avoid
Na uh actually that’s shitty AA and doesn’t count, only western air defense is good (who am I kidding he’ll say chinese AA is better)
>has been performing effectively like this for years and is in service in dozens of countries
Ummm the completely untested Chinese plane is actually better
>it’s expensive so it’s bad
at least this one is partially true

>>63830109
>Repsonse is actually babble
We got an ass mad turdie here folks!

>>63824619
>peacetime

>>63829454
Not undeclared. Iran has declared war on Israel multiple times over the decades, most recently about a year ago.

>>63825376
>how good what they already got paid for dies
Has anyone really been far?

>>63829868
But it has literally replaced the F18, except for Growlers

>>63829724
>The F35 is going to be a 2nd line unit the 10-15 years when 6th gens start to come online.
Whoa, thanks Sun Tzu.

>>63829868
>f-35c cannot replace the f/a-18 because it still lacks any capability to carry weapons that can attack ships
It can use the JSM/NSM and the LRASM soon, not mention JASSM antiship variants. What the fuck are you talking about?

>>63832212
Also, there's QuickStrike/QuickSink and L-JDAM if you can safely get close enough. And for that matter, SDB2, while slow, does offer a fair bit of standoff range. And, of course, AARGM/SiAW are coming and would be useful against PLAN DDGs.

>shot down by iran
oh no no no no glowsisters!

>>63832212
LRASM is the JASSM antiship variant dingus

>>63828169
Supposedly it's cause the replacements for the Minutemen missiles are waaay fucking over budget and making sure our nukes are ready to go at a moments notice is more important than more F-35's. How in this day and age when Space X can launch thousands of satellites in a year, yet the federal government struggles to procure a new ICBM is beyond me.

>>63832424
>he fell for it

>>63830090
>>63830059
Or eight SDBs
>>63829868
Quicksinks are just JDAMs. It can carry two 2000lbs internally.

>>63832982
>Or eight SDBs
those are sdb iis and your pic clearly shows test markings. sdb iis aren't certified yet ofr the f-35c.

all those vaporware that the f-35c might be able to carry in the future is getting old. usn just integrates those new munitions for the f/a-18 in no time.

>>63824382 (OP)
Lot of tankies coping, none apologizing for s400 being hot garbage

>>63833368
>all those vaporware that the f-35c might be able to carry in the future
you are responding to a literal photo of an F-35 carrying them.

>>63833400
a fitting test means nothing and is far away from certification

>>63833446
>coping this hard
Iran is winning too i assume

>>63830013
>F35-C has half the range of the Super Hornet, it can't carry weapons or fuel externally without compromising radar cross-section.
And even when using external hard points, which gives it more of both, it still has a smaller radar cross section than an F-18 with a comparable loadout.

>63830089
They could, there's just not much point in having a stealth fighter do Wild Weasle missions.

>>63830206
>Kill generals, nuclear scientist, completely violate airspace without losing a single plane
>Kill 3 civilians and wound a dozen with a saturation barrage
I wonder

I like the A-10 brrrr and I'm tired of pretending I don't.

>>63824388
I think it might have something to do with the brown people operating. White people can shoot down stealth jets just fine with 60s-70s era monkey model SAMs

>>63834001
saarb coping again kekw, you only got it cause the doors opened to drop the paveways

>>63834056
>schizoid accuses me of cope, then immediately follows up with the most retarded of copes that betrays total ignorance of how radar systems works

people have actually worked it out - it was barely within the capability of the radars provided the Serbs were clever (which they were) and the Amis were careless (which they also were)

Amis are still so butthurt to this day that they keep spreading this shitty cope

>>63824382 (OP)

>>63834184
still didn't stop the bombs now did it?
>inb4 he posts the B-2 cope

>>63831354
No I just think the F35 is a faggy program & massive resource sink. We should have stuck with F22 production and maintained the gen 4 -> 4++ fleet.

>>63834001
That had more to do with sheer tactical malpractice of the USAF than the actual effectiveness of the radar. It just goes to show that the technical advantage of any system can be negated by sufficiently retarded usage.

the truth is in opposite direction to what retards say. the problem with f-35 is it's unnecessarily maneuverable and fast. they should have made it bigger so it could carry more fuel with more and bigger payload internally, even to the point it became subsonic only (remove the afterburner too). it would have been still worth it. imagine how much easier bombing iran would have been.

pic related is an example of how much you can gain by not having to sacrifice the design for any supersonic. they could optimize the wing. not only it had fully loaded range that is still unmatched in naval aviation to this day, but also, counterintuitively, it was actually faster at subsonic. thanks to that wing, it could comfortably sustain the high subsonic speeds at full load, where as supersonic fighters actually were slower in that case because the wing was cucked to make supersonic possible.

but at this point it all should be replaced by unmanned aircraft, and the bulk of the technological investment made into durable com links and c&c.

>>63824388
>>You accept that the S-400 was a nothingburger
>broofs?
syria

>>63838197
what f-35 should have been like

>>63824411
2 F-35s got shot down

>>63826882
Elon you haven't made up with Donny yet.

>>63839627
According to...?

https://ummid.com/news/2025/june/15-06-2025/chilean-aviator-passes-as-israeli-f-35-pilot-captured-by-iran.html

>>63830013
>F35-C has half the range of the Super Hornet
The combat range is something like 700nm for the F35 and 800nm for a Super Hornet with three external tanks. Fuck off.

>>63839627
lol
>>63840009
>According to...?
What!? Have you not seen the totally-not-ai-slop Real Life Photograph™ that Iran posted showing the show down F-35s crashed in a field!?? Though to the F-35's credit it's very impressive that the engines were still running fine and they were nearly intact and had swapped parts with an F-16 to hide their secrets while they were crashing and the anti-gravity hover system still worked fine thus not only was their zero crater or skid, the grass wasn't even singed. That's quality craftsmanship!

>>63840368
>Though to the F-35's credit it's very impressive that the engines were still running fine and they were nearly intact and had swapped parts with an F-16 to hide their secrets while they were crashing and the anti-gravity hover system still worked fine thus not only was their zero crater or skid, the grass wasn't even singed. That's quality craftsmanship!
Only the Israeli models have those features. God's chosen get all the miracles.

>>63824382 (OP)

>>63840700
But the air defense was taken down by trucks with drones infiltrated by mossad, not f-35.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/ships-trucks-and-suitcases-how-israel-reportedly-got-its-attack-drones-into-iran/&ved=2ahUKEwir56HQn_SNAxUvWKQEHYJKIQgQFnoECCoQAQ&usg=AOvVaw2YZJZjeGQTykW9qz3XxGcr

>>63841405
So?

>>63841504
So elon told me drones can do the job of fighters kinda has to be taken down from that form...

>>63841521
But drones didn't take the place of fighters. Are you stupid?

>>63841544
Drones, as of now, took the place of planes dedicated to recon, close air support and supression of enemy air defenses. They have not taken the roles of bombers, interceptors, strike aircraft and air superiority, although with the way research is going with loyal wingman aircraft i suspect the later 2 are next on the list.

>>63824388
Iran spontaneously combusting

Americans are upset that they spent a gorrilion dollars on a stealth fighter which is contested by a $35,000 upgrade to the S-300.
Israel stole the engine specs from the Australians, and now everyone can track them.

It's a good multi role fighter, actually a very good fighter. But the cost is unreal, nobody is able to buy enough or maintain them. How many major partners pulled out? Deals with the US are tissue paper these days.

>>63845127
1 "major" (tier 3) partner left but had a change of heart when they realized the gripen isn't a substitute. Another "major" (tier 3) partner was kicked out. Wow, truly an exodus.