I want a PCC and it must be in .45 ACP.
Is the Stribog my best bet?
Looking to be about $1100 new after all fees.

>>63851166 (OP)
Probably. That one uses UMP mags right? Those are good to go.

>240 grain bullets at subsonic speeds without using specialty subsonic ammunition
Sounds like a sensible .300 blk if you ask me.

>>63851166 (OP)
>$1100
price is very low, small arms price is very high now. I don't even know what is possible, mac-10? some blowback shit? some Sten, french sten, some ww2 shit?
Best in class is USW, but $1000? cannot possible.

>>63851166 (OP)
>1100
Maybe used. I have a stribog and can definitely recommend them. Don't get the factory folding brace, get the telescoping with tailhook.

https://gunzonedeals.com/product/grand-power-stribog-sp45a3-pdw-.45-acp-delayed-roller-pistol-with-pdw-brace
1400 shipped.

The Stribog has somehow managed to become the only real rational .45 PCC option on the market. Bizarre, really.

>>63851599
better than 10mm fags who pretty much only have 1) bespoke MP5/10 builds that will rape your wallet and take a year to get to you
2) one of the biggest memegats ever made

>>63851607
The Stribog also comes in 10mm, but I love 45 so I think I'd go with that one.

>>63851618
huh I actually didn't know that, guess things aren't as bleak for them after all

>>63851618
The .45 version takes HK UMP mags, which are good. Regular .45acp is subsonic, so suppresses really well. If you want you could probably shoot .45 super or .450 smc for 10mm-like performance. They’re externally identical to .45acp, but have much thicker internal case heads so can handle more pressure.

>>63851607
>one of the biggest memegats ever made
What is this and what makes it such a meme?

>>63851166 (OP)
The A3, yeah. Not sure if they made a straight blowback 45 but they made a 9mm blowback so make sure not to get one of those.

>>63851599
Because the only 45 stick mags available are UMP mags which, while reliable, aren't an efficient design. So anyone who wants to make a .45 PCC has to use fuckhuge mags or figure out .45 stagger feeding on their own.

>>63851656
The MP5/10 has most of the ergonomic problems of the MP5, but doesn't have it's ultra soft recoil under full auto, nor the ability to run suppressed subsonics which cycle the action without adjustment.

And those two attributes are what made the MP5 the goat.

>>63851734
subsonic 10mm is fucking retarded though

>>63851747
NTA, but if you don't care about it being subsonic then why would you be limiting yourself to a pistol caliber at all? The only time a PCC makes sense is if you're suppressing it. The moment you're not you might as well be using an intermediate caliber rifle.

>>63851599
I suppose there’s also the Ruger LC, or perhaps the CX4 Storm. Does Beretta still make those?
I want to say CMMG also has some designs.
Then there’s the replica Thompsons for the memey boyz.

>>63851747
Yeah, which is why the MP5/10 is a memegat and doesn't fill the same boots the MP5 does.

>>63851765
>The only time a PCC makes sense is if you're suppressing it.
Nah. Just because it's not hearing safe doesn't mean you don't get all the other benefits from shooting pistol ammo in barrels that short. 223 from an 8" barrel indoors is just oppressively loud and flashy, and despite what people claim it's not as controllable.

>>63851790
>CX4 Storm. Does Beretta still make those?
I don't think so, but i picked up a used one last year for $650.

>>63851765
>why yes I am going for the shortest package possible may I please have the option that is several inches longer with a concussive round designed for a much longer barrel
>yes I know this has already been patiently explained to me several times but I'm a troll on a weapons board for some reason

>>63851575
What's wrong with the folding one?

>>63852725
The one I used on the 10mm flexed when I shot it. Still useable, but the collapseable tailhook is a stock in everything but name.

>>63851765
>The moment you're not you might as well be using an intermediate caliber rifle.
there's so many more factors at play for using a PCC hreres like 5
>innability to get a suppressor in the first place
>amount of ammo you can carry
>intermediate being overkill for the purposes in which you're using
>recoil
>reduced concussion
>CPR
>compactness

>>63852871
NTA but,
>innability to get a suppressor in the first place
that more of a reason to get the intermediate caliber rifle, not the PCC. LOL
>amount of ammo you can carry
We aren't marching through a jungle. Most PCCs are either home defense guns, truck guns, or range toys.
>intermediate being overkill for the purposes in which you're using.
You do realize OP wanted his PCC in .45, right? He isn't searching for one in .22 LR.
>recoil
A semi-auto AR-15's recoil is comparable, similarly manageable to a lighter gun shooting a heavier projectile like .45 ACP.
>reduced concussion
Fair enough, you found one valid reason. This is sort of why the other guy wanted it suppressed though.
>CPR
Neither .45 ACP (which OP wants) nor 10mm (the alternative some other guy recommended) is cheap.
>compactness
Fair enough, you got a second valid reason. It's a bit exaggerated, seeing as how one can remove and store two pins from an AR and turn it into a pseudo takedown rifle.

Guns that aren't pistols but are still chambered in pistol calibers have been overrated since the Germans invented the STG-44, even more when our country banned machine guns. They got their 15 minutes of fame when suppressors became common, and they'll slowly proliferate now that FRT and super safeties exist.

>>63853132
>You do realize OP wanted his PCC in .45, right? He isn't searching for one in .22 LR
your wording sounded as it was referring to PCC's overall, not specifically to ones in 10mm or .45 ACP
>Fair enough, you got a second valid reason. It's a bit exaggerated, seeing as how one can remove and store two pins from an AR and turn it into a pseudo takedown rifle.
that's not a very fast deployment compared to racking a collapsing stock back on say an MP5k

>Guns that aren't pistols but are still chambered in pistol calibers have been overrated since the Germans invented the STG-44
for infantry uses sure, although I would contend that the amount of ammo you can carry, weight of a rifle like the STG44 are still factors and there are niche uses for smg's even within infantry rolls. They wouldn't be used by the majority ofc but neither would a shorty AR tbqh
also in reference to handguns, 2 points of contact with a stock will always be superior and if you don't have to worry about concealability as much that's all the more reason

is the vector just a meme?

>>63851166 (OP)
Cx4 storm is cooler. But they are discontinued and the 45 was discontinued ages ago.

What about the Ruger PC Charger? I've heard it's a solid budget PCC. Not sure if it comes in .fuddyfive though.

>>63853132
>>innability to get a suppressor in the first place
>that more of a reason to get the intermediate caliber rifle, not the PCC. LOL
An unsuppressed 9mm, 40, or 45 from an 8" barrel will do significantly less damage to your hearing than a rifle round from that same length barrel. If anything the non-availability of suppressors (possibly soon to change) is more of a reason to have a PDW/large-frame pistol home defense weapon than short rifle.

>>63853217
>your wording sounded as...
I'm NTA remember. Not that anon.
>it was referring to PCC's overall, not specifically to ones in 10mm or .45 ACP
Nobody here was talking about anything else, OP wanted a PCC in .45 ACP and that's what the discussion has been centered around.
>racking a collapsing stock back on say an MP5k
and that's not a very fast deployment compared to just drawing your pistol. There are compromises everywhere.
>the amount of ammo you can carry
>weight of a rifle
Those can be factors only if you let them be. Again, we aren't doing week-long marches in rough terrain, so weight is less of a factor for a civilian looking for a HD gun or truck gun, and as for ammo, we aren't in a platoon facing off against an enemy battalion.
>also in reference to handguns... if you don't have to worry about concealability as much that's all the more reason
Your point as to why to choose a PCC over a handgun also invalidates one of your earlier reasons. In your first comment, concealability was a big deal, and now it isn't. LOL

>>63853251
Kind of; real ones serve their purpose well, but civilian legal semi-auto ones are just overpriced and don't even feel that good. Their recoil reduction system works best on full-auto; it just feels awkward in semi-auto.

>>63853608
>I'm NTA remember
genuinely missed that but THAT anon phrased the sentence in a way that was referring to PCC's universally, beyond the discussion of the .45 ACP/10mm
the whole point of what I was saying initially is that dismissing PCC's as whole is silly because there are niche uses for them and while that original anon's post may have been right in that instance, using suppressibility as the exclusive factor in deeming a PCC worth using is dumb.
>also invalidates one of your earlier reasons. In your first comment, concealability was a big deal, and now it isn't. LOL
in that original comment i said "compactness" which is not the same as concealability and moreover, all of those points aren't supposed to be taken together as a whole, rather as individual points that could feed into one niche or another.

e.g's
>seals despite having access to CAR-15's and suppressors for smg's used unsuppressed M76's during vietnam and SOCOM used MPL's/Mp5's in years beyond
>maybe someone wants minimally recoiling HD rifle because they prefer the stability of having a stock
>maybe someone wants a truck gun that can only fit within a limited compartment and doesn't wanna dick around with a takedown due to loss of time
yes in this specific instance of wanting a unsupressed .45 PCC its probably moot to buy one over AR pistol for muh serious usage. But in the wider world beyond that PCC's/SMG's have use cases for military and civilians alike

>>63851166 (OP)
I am also interested in this

I want a PCC in .380. The Hipoint 3095 is ugly as fuck and I don't want to try and hunt down and weld up a CZ. Anything else out there?

>>63851656
The Hi Point carbine in 10mm?
I think Ruger and S&W make their takes on that style now too.

>>63853840
>I don't want to try and hunt down and weld up a CZ
pretty sure they sell them as completed guns in .380

>>63851599
Is there something wrong with B&T's .45 and 10mm guns, besides the price?

>>63853608
would the vector be worth it if there was a fart trigger for it?

>>63851656
the vector

>>63854301
blowback for $2500

>>63854301
oh yeah i also forgot to add that anyo of the b+t mags other than the 9mm ones are $100 a piece

>>63853840
It's that or get a MAC-11.

The Kuna 40 converted to 357 would be cool.

>>63855288
I don't understand why PCCs don't all use gas-delayed blowback like the P7—it saves weight, it's basically self-regulating, it reduces felt recoil, and on a carbine you've got plenty of workspace to keep the hot spot away from the user's hand

>>63855386
would it work well in a PCC? the MCX is i guess the closest (and only?) gas operated PCC but its a gas piston and it doesn't work that well

>>63855386
I want to see the M&P system in a PDW/PCC.

>>63851599
Wrong.

>>63853796
I'm also curious are there any printed .45 pcc that will work with a super safety?

>>63854362
We'd have to shoot it and find out I guess, but I doubt they'll make an FRT for the Vector; its bolt mechanism is just too strange.

>>63855668
>guntubers when they are forced to recommend a hi-point as the best option

>>63851166 (OP)
In .45? Get a vector or a ghetto carbine

>>63851575
I have a stribog too and I've always thought the factory brace is great. It's one of the only parts of the gun I plan to keep the same long-term.

>>63857501
I just replaced the safety and bolt release on mine. Removed the folding sights, put on a KVP trilug for can. All the mags work even the straight 20s I got dirt cheap. SP9A3S

>>63859891
I'm planning to replace the whole lower so I can super safety mine

>>63857427
>vector
dumb

>>63855386
Cost of manufacture

>>63860753
I guess, although that's less valid on AR9s and Vityazes that are based on a gun that would normally have a gas system anyway.

>>63855340
A MAC-11 would be cool. Once we get suppressors off the NFA I'd want to do a .380 version of the Escape from New York gun.
>>63853840
>>63853966
I'm also half tempted to buy a used Hi Point 3095 and put an ATI stock on it. Maybe do a nice paint job on the furniture to imitate wood grain idk

>>63861412
>Maybe do a nice paint job on the furniture to imitate wood grain idk
fakelite that bitch

>>63851166 (OP)
>Extar (half that price)
>put the rest toward nice accouterments and ammo

It's reliable and it's cheap and it's AR based. Or

>MKE AP5 (MP5 Clone, Turk licensed HK tooling)

Should be just under budget retail, bigger margin if used-- just follow people's HK parts swap recommendations and not mind a potential project piece.

>>63855540
I'd like s&w to just make some small AR 5.7 pistols and sell them for 5-600 bucks

>>63851647
Are there not contamination issues with overpressure with these rounds? 460 Rowland has an extra millimeter or so of case length to prevent chambering in legacy guns not designed for the pressure. No such problem with Super and SMC?

>>63855386
Check out CMMG’s radial delayed blowback. It delays opening of the action in the same way as HK’s roller delay - by mechanical disadvantage - but is a way simpler and more elegant solution. You don’t actually need to lock the action for a low pressure pistol cartridge. Mere delay is enough. 5.7 pistols typically do not have a locked breech, for example.

>>63855540
>>63862067
How is their 5.7 pistol?

>>63862119
Yeah the CMMG thing is very clever. N.b. I wasn't talking about *roller* delayed blowback like the MP5.

I guess this is a PCC thread so im asking. Looking to get an AP5. I dont know about 9mm ballistics, is there any advantage in getting the full size? I'd like the compact -M version

>>63865787
9mm tops out at about 12" so you'd be getting ballistic gains even with a full-size, but even the "compact" is longer than a Glock 17 and (in a post-SBR world) has a stock, so it'd still have benefits over any reasonable handgun.
With legacy platforms like the MP5, it's really down to what subjectively appeals to you. Do you want the Operation Nimrod full size? Do you want a hypebeast MP5K build with all the shit? Do you want an MP5SD now* that it's a 0-stamp gun?
*hypothetically, trust the plan

>>63865799
desu, I'm not sure what sort of aesthetic I want to go for. All I know is I love the telescoping stock and a major point I have for wanting an MP5 is just so I can install a super safety.

>>63865983
If you want the normal collapsing stock (e.g., pic related) that'll be way easier with a full-size build—the alternative would be a "reverse stretch" build (literally pic related) that doesn't correspond to any mil/LE config.
IIRC any MP5(K) receiver can take some sort of super safe trigger pack/housing "lower" so your options are open on that end

>>63865787
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0fgMnKLKLQ

Take his parts swap advice for reliability if it's behaving like a lemon; no lack of forums for reference.

>>63865983
>All I know is I love the telescoping stock and a major point I have for wanting an MP5
The stock sucks ass.
You realize very quickly that it was meant for point shooting, not for shouldering or aiming at all.
It's heavier than every other option, the cheek weld cranes your neck into an uncomfortable position, the toe of the stock digs into your shoulder and prevents you from getting a good connection with the upper half, and it hurts your face when you're shooting.
Best stock for a full size is the A2 stock or B&T adapter/folder, or for the K the B&T adapter + full size UMP stock. The choate is just alright.
>t. havespent$2konmp5(k)stocks

>>63866183
>It's heavier than every other option,
This is good, actually

>>63866213
No, it's not.
It turns what is a light smg/pcc and adds twice the weight or more of other options and brings it to the weight of a carbine/AR.
I sold my A3 and kept the A3F just to own it, but it's basically just collecting dust.
Like someone else said, it's aesthetic, but little else.

>>63866268
The more weight is in the back, the more it handles like a pistol. There's probably an upper limit beyond which the overall weight makes the balance improvements moot but—especially on a stamped sheet metal gun like an MP5—I don't think it's realistically achievable.

>>63862273
IDK, but from what I read it's the 5.7 pistol to get; lowest recoil and the added volume of the gas delay system cuts down on flash a little bit.

Also it's a better suppressor host than most pistols because, although the barrel moves, it's the static barrel shroud which is threaded. So no booster needed, and the can doesn't cause excessive wear on the slide and critical locking surfaces.

>>63866302
The best 5.7 pistol to get is the Five-seveN; it's the most aesthetic and being the best suppressor host is moot when you're chambered in a caliber that's just .22 WMR with extra steps

>>63866319
> it's the most aesthetic

false. The aesthetics of the PSA 57 rock are unmoggable. The grip is also crying out to my hand to come and embrace it, a quality absent from any other 5.7 guns. PSA managed to engineer an actually comfortable 5.7 grip.

>>63865220
Idk why I registered “gas-delayed” as “gas-operated” which typically means “rotating bolt”

Yeah, gas delayed, like in the p7 and I’m pretty sure also the Laugo Alien is a very elegant delaying mechanism. But can you fit this into the ar15 with all its dimensional constraints? Like the piston and its cylinder would have to live next to the chamber, but that space is already occupied by the upper receiver and barrel nut

>>63866327
Clearly this anon is delusional

>>63866285
>The more weight is in the back, the more it handles like a pistol.
This is wrong and nonsensical in every way. Literally video game-tier levels of stupidity.
Again, I own and shoot these guns in all of the stock configurations, the collapsible stock is of no benefit over the others.

>>63866327
>PSA managed to engineer an actually comfortable 5.7 grip.

While that's a very great point, I feel like the 5.7 is meant for SMGs because it's a velocity reliant round.

>>63866183
lmfao this whole post is bullshit

>>63868815
>I feel like the 5.7 is meant for SMGs because it's a velocity reliant round.
100%.
The P90 was always the primary weapon meant for the caliber, the FiveseveN was just the cool sidearm that went with it.

>>63868836
hes right about the telescoping stock being ass compared to a fullstock or sidefolders.
his reasoning is fucked but his main point is not wrong.

>>63851166 (OP)
Stribog good.
Genuinely your best bet if you want a PCC in 45 or 10.

There are more options for 9mm, but I love my 9mm bog.

>>63868836
The A3 stock is heavier and does feel worse to shoot. That said, not being able to shoulder it properly is pure skill issue and it hardly "hurts your face" when shooting. A2 objectively feels better, but the anon clearly just sucks at shooting with the A3.

>>63866183

>The stock sucks ass. You realize very quickly that it was meant for point shooting, not for shouldering or aiming at all. It's heavier than every other option, the cheek weld cranes your neck into an uncomfortable position, the toe of the stock digs into your shoulder and prevents you from getting a good connection with the upper half, and it hurts your face when you're shooting.

Fucking lol. Are you a reporter by chance?

>The recoil bruised my shoulder, which can happen if you don't know what you're doing. The brass shell casings disoriented me as they flew past my face. The smell of sulfur and destruction made me sick. The explosions — loud like a bomb — gave me a temporary form of PTSD. For at least an hour after firing the gun just a few times, I was anxious and irritable.


The recoil bruised my shoulder, which can happen if you don't know what you're doing. The brass shell casings disoriented me as they flew past my face. The smell of sulfur and destruction made me sick. The explosions — loud like a bomb — gave me a temporary form of PTSD. For at least an hour after firing the gun just a few times, I was anxious and irritable.

>>63866183
>You realize very quickly that it was meant for point shooting, not for shouldering or aiming at all.
>the stock wasn't designed for shouldering
You're retarded.
To the original poster, the collapsing stock works great with a dot because you can just float your head around instead of having to get some super cheekweld which won't happen. Luv me collapsible stock. The choate folder is more sturdy and makes a good cheekweld but it's not as compact nor as cool. The fixed stock is a fixed stock.

>>63862076
No such problem. Just know what you’re loading.gsw22

>>63869414
>You're retarded.
No, you are, you half retarded gorilla nigger.
The stock was always meant as an afterthought to how the gun was meant to be fired, which was without the stock, using the 3-point sling to tension the weapon.
That's how the Germans used it, it's how the SAS used it, it's how the SEALs used it.
Read their books and they all used it that way primarily.
>but hurr a durrrrrr I like stock
Nobody cares. Your shooting ability is mediocre and your credentials are even less valuable.

>>63870115
Even this movie kinda got it right.

>>63866183
I prefer A2 over A3 for shooting but holy shit dude, this is a certified bruh moment.

>>63869914
>just know what you’re loading

Nah, you can never SAAMI certify a cartridge identical to another cartridge with 50% higher pressure. If it looks like the appropriate cartridge and fits in the gun and is liable to blow it up, it’s a problem. Shit, guys are still blowing up their 5.56 guns with 300 blackout. “Just know what you’re loading” is not idiot-proof. It needs to be idiot-proof.

>>63868815
Yeah it probably is. It is at home in the p90’s 10” barrel, but nerfed from the ~5” barrel of 5.7 pistols.

>>63870757
It’s a bit more involved since with .45 super you need to change out the recoil spring for a 23-24 pound spring.

>>63870115
>That's how the Germans used it, it's how the SAS used it, it's how the SEALs used it.
>Read their books and they all used it that way primarily.
...because the alternative was mashing their gas masks into the stock and not getting a sight picture anyway. Appropriate stocks and sighting solutions didn't exist at the time, so they made do.
The collapsible stock was always meant for the things collapsible stocks are usually meant for; they just took advantage of the gun's stock being effectively optional to make it work for them.

>>63862076
Just be competent. Know your brass.

>>63870757
>Nah, you can never SAAMI certify a cartridge identical to another cartridge with 50% higher pressure
Who gives a shit? If you're into reloading at all you shouldn't be mixing brass in the first place, if you don't keep headstamps separated you're completely wasting your time. 45acp brass is just fine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3DyJPbQh6I

>“Just know what you’re loading” is not idiot-proof
Guns aren't idiot-proof, it takes no more than a few seconds to completely fuck up your life by killing or injuring yourself or someone else if you're not cognizant of what you're doing. You can accidentally shoot yourself or a relative with a SAAMI factory loading.

>>63870872
>nooo! it was for gas masks!
Wrong (again).

>>63870952
>posts picture of the collapsible stock being used for normal collapsible stock things—not to mention the three-point sling being used for normal three-point sling things—completely undermining the point he's trying to support
wdhmbt

>>63870952
Special forces are glorified drive by niggers, anything they do is for showing off and impressing other niggers

>>63868862
The 9mm is the best Stribog, has better delay, better mags, and the best controls.

I am the autist who always mentions when 10/45 PCCs are brought up that manufacturers are STILL refusing to make a common straight-column magazine for either cartridge. They ALL converge to center-feed, and it makes the platforms just fundamentally worse. And this is done to accommodate Glock mags, thanks glockfags, you're ruining PCCs.

The design concessions in the 10mm Stribog are particularly annoying. The entire receiver is longer than it needs to be so that the Glock mag version can present the rounds correctly. Just look at this dogshit, they've tried to hide it with that absurdly long trigger guard, but the elongation is so obvious.

>>63851734
>The MP5/10 has most of the ergonomic problems of the MP5
It solves one of the main ones by having an actual hold-open and bolt-release.

>but doesn't have it's ultra soft recoil under full auto
Salt Lake City SWAT seemed to have liked them a lot. They'd probably do just fine in semi-auto anyway.

>nor the ability to run suppressed subsonics which cycle the action without adjustment
Who the fuck uses 10mm to run subsonics? Nevermind that you really should be using replacement rollers with ANY of the H&K roller-delayed guns if you want to suppress them.

>>63851747
>>63871075
>Who the fuck uses 10mm to run subsonics?
>subsonic 10mm is fucking retarded though
Yeah, that's the point. That is THE point. That's why a 10mm MP5 is arguably worse than a 9mm one, 10mm doesn't straddle the sound barrier, it's firmly above it. 40S&W would be a better chambering, at least then with one receiver and carrier you could have 200gr subs, 155-180gr supers, and even .357sig with only a barrel/roller change.

>It solves one of the main ones by having an actual hold-open and bolt-release.
The grip is still a retarded angle, the trigger is still dogshit, the safety is still grip-breaking.

>Nevermind that you really should be using replacement rollers with ANY of the H&K roller-delayed guns if you want to suppress them.
It's not that big a deal unless you're converting to integral suppression with the bleed-off holes, or a substantially different barrel length.

>>63871132
>Yeah, that's the point. That is THE point.
It's a stupid fucking point. You want it in 10mm for better terminal effect and barrier penetration, but without the blasty fireballs you get with equivalent sized 5.56mm carbines. If you want a quiet gun, you use 9mm, .45, or .300

>>63871165
>You want it in 10mm for better terminal effect and barrier penetration
40 literally fires the same weight bullets, in some loadings the same exact bullets.
>If you want a quiet gun, you use 9mm, .45, or .300
40 is naturally subsonic in heavy loadings the same way 9mm and 45acp are.

Anyway, to recap, the reason the MP5 is iconic and beloved is because it's soft-shooting, and chambered in a round which can be subsonic without being a cucked loading.
The reason the MP5/10 is a memegat is because it's wearing the MP5's skin while being ill-suited to performing it's varied roles.