Thread 63865329

>oh no, we can't do anything without the American B-2s to deliver bombs that penetrate 50 meters to the core.
Like just destroy the entrances until they're useless bro, it's easy

>>63865329 (OP)
But the contamination

>>63865329 (OP)
>2021
I imagine it's much more now

>>63865495
Who cares?

>>63865329 (OP)
I don't see air defense

>>63865329 (OP)
Unless you collapse the main facilities, you're only inflicting temporary damage that can be fixed relatively quickly.

>>63865508
By what, all the big, fat, slow earthmoving equipment that you can just keep blowing up? And even then what, if everyone in the country that knows what the fuck an enrichment centrifuge is and how to use one is a rotten corpse in the lab by the time they get to them?

>>63865514
I'm just saying. Blow up the entrance, you end the nuclear program for a month. Collapse the tunnels, you end the nuclear program for a decade.

>>63865329 (OP)
>tfw your brother-in-law got you a comfy job there as a janitor just a couple of months ago

It is uncharacteristic of Israel to delay acquiring and developing the bunker buster despite knowing about the existence of these underground facilities.

>>63865542
Right now it's more about not having the bombers for that but yeah they should have developed something independent

>>63865329 (OP)
how are CIA and Mossad djinn going to conduct BDA and exfil when the entrances are covered in rubble?

>>63865329 (OP)
>Like just destroy the entrances until they're useless bro, it's easy
Here is a man who has never kicked anthills.
>>63865508
He doesn't get it.

>>63865548
>>63865542
USA only has 20 MOP btw at around $4m a pop. The decision is not based on 'can we do it' but more 'is it wise to do it'. If you hit it, you've played your hand, you've crossed the Rubicon so to speak. So you better make sure everything is destroyed. Remember, in the 70's, the US drew up plans to bomb Cuba and despite all their planning and resources they came up with the result of maybe knocking out 85% if sites, meaning 15% could potentially be launched. Additionally they planned a ground invasion while the bombing was still going with the sole purpose of making sure there was no other missiles and occupying it for a long time. Expensive. So Kennedy did blockade + diplomacy and got away with it because a Soviet officer refused to turn his arming key when ordered to nuke the blockade with nuke torps.

>>63865567
I think the relevant question are 1) how much Iranian powder is dry for retaliation and 2) if the regime will respond to rational pressure.
Iran is going to lose its nuclear enrichment capability one way or the other The problem is your dealing with an aging Shiite theocracy that knows it is probably on its way out anyways.

>>63865562
They'll never dare to put boots in Iran

>>63865329 (OP)
the unspoken question is how many russians are down in there assisting the iranians

>>63865594
China seems pretty pissed now, they probably have some interchange students stealing stuff there too

>>63865567
I think this guy who believes the Cuban Missile Crisis was in the 70s is the one we should be listening to

>>63865600
>DID YOU PRESS 6 INSTEAD OF 7?? IS THAT A TYPORINO????? WELL HEH SORRY CHUD YOUR ENTIRE POST IS IRRELEVANT NOW
Fuck off retard.

>>63865598
>drop the bunker bomb
>end up killing a global casserole of various state sponsored actors

>>63865587
I don't think they wear boots

>>63865600
I mean what I said was objectively true and me accidentally pressing the 7 key instead of 6 key doesn't change that. You can read about it in plenty of books. I recommend 'Bombing to Win' by Robert Pape.

>>63865329 (OP)
who knows, maybe all the talk about bombing it is just a distraction from what's really planned

>>63865612
>5000 nork slave workers die and no one even reports it

>>63865627
Five minutes ago, I lost 5,000 Best Korean slave workers in the blink of an eye, and the world just fucking didn't notice. Tomorrow there will be no shortage of propaganda, no shortage of angry red flags. I know you understand, inshallah.

>>63865621
Whatever they're planning then better be more /k/ino than bombs or I'm going to be pissed, and being more /k/ino than a US air campaign is a really fucking tall ask.

>>63865627
Jucheing ain't easy

>>63865548
The B2 program costed $200B+, Country the size of Israel cannot fund something like this.

>>63865696
maybe not bombers but something more earth-to-earth

>>63865696
maybe Ted Cruz should see to it that US aid to Israel include the B-2

>>63865696
why can't America just sell or even gift them the bombers?

>>63865567
>USA only has 20 MOP btw at around $4m a pop.
>double tapping targets would be enough to wipe out all of the nuclear facilities in pic related
So, all it cost to permanently cripple the Iranians is 20 MOPs for $80 million, basically?

>>63865726
why on gods green earth would we do that

>>63866231
We owe them that much

>>63866237
lol

>>63865594
Considering the lack of catastrophic meltdowns, probably none. Besides, it would be extremely hard for any Russian scientist to remain in a country where alcohol is in very short supply because getting utterly and comprehensively hammered to the point that independent locomotion, reflexes. speech and higher congnitive functions are impaired isn't looked favorably upon.

>>63865587
Do not underestimate this government’s stupidity and it’s contempt for it’s own people. Talking to nafo people on here has me fully convinced these people would bomb their own countrymen if given the chance.

>>63866231
It would be antisemitic not to, ok?

>>63865587
The Mossad already has boots on the ground. Had for a week at the very least if not for much longer. They have been merrily sniping VIPs and a radar installations with ATGMs and drones.

>>63866281
If only. You whining lolbertarian commies should be gunned down like hippies should have been in the 60s. The world of comfort and luxury you ingrates live in is thanks to neocon policy and the efforts of our greatest ally, Israel, to make the world a better place. Be thankful for once in your meaningless lives and shut up.

>>63866307
>Be thankful
I have a better idea.

>>63865508
They have air superiority. Just fly over there once a month and drop another 2000lb bomb on the entrance again

>>63865508
Ive heard claims that there are quite a few IRGC members trapped underground right now in some of those facilities since he IAF just keeps bombing the entrances.

>>63865567
>got away with it because a Soviet officer refused to turn his arming key when ordered to nuke the blockade with nuke torps
tbf: if Arkhipov had of consented and turned his key, it wouldn't have been a failure of US policy, it would have been a limited nuclear exchange and an invasion of Cuba.

Kennedy already blinked somewhat when the U2 was shot down and he didn't order an attack, which it was had already been agreed would be the response to a shoot-down.
It turned out to have been shot down by Cubans though and Kennedy basically correctly read Kruschev's mind about his intentions and what really happened and went with his hunch.

>>63866231
>why on gods green earth would we do that
Beats me but you seem to do it all the time.
Maybe just one B2 between friends?

>>63866382
>They have air superiority. Just fly over there once a month and drop another 2000lb bomb on the entrance again
That's probably what they'll do except that they'll also have ground teams on site eventually and when someone digs their way out, the ground teams will just slaughter them at that entrance and then work their way in.
IRGC who've been in the dark, living on dried food and bottled water rations for a month should be much easier to kill in the beam of a high-candela under-barrel LED flashlight.

>>63866487
Comfy.

>>63866307
Yeah man Reagan did a bang up job with the rest of them to insure that the future has 0 domestic manufacturing capabilities and that wealth could continue to be transferred from the bottom up. I’m hoping in the next 20 years that I’ll never have the opportunity to own property as well.

>>63867489
>IRGC who've been in the dark, living on dried food and bottled water rations for a month should be much easier to kill in the beam of a high-candela under-barrel LED flashlight.
This is just getting pathetic my guy. You're larperator raids aren't gonna happen.

>>63867509
What if he recorded himself clearing rooms and posted it to tik tok with trap music playing in the background? Also hes wearing vans when he does it

>>63867509
>This is just getting pathetic my guy.
Odd way to start a sentence, it's like you think this is some ongoing conversation and not a random post on an anonymous forum.

>You're larperator raids aren't gonna happen.
By definition they wouldn't be larps since they'd be done by actual operators.
I'm confused by your confidence though, how do you know with such certainty that no ground action will occur?
Israel has literally already done this in Syria with great success and have the pieces in place for something similar here.

>>63867540
>Israel has literally already done this in Syria with great success and have the pieces in place for something similar here.
They quite literally waited until Syria collapsed and bombed every single piece of equipment before sending in their commandos. Iran is not collapsing and they're too scared to even fly jets over even after damaging their AD, they aren't gonna be sending helicopters in to get slaughtered even though that would be hilarious.

>>63867579
>Iran is not collapsing and they're too scared to even fly jets over
They don't seem very scared at all and are routinely bombing anything they want, seems like they can secure a perimeter around a site if they want. Or will be able to do so soon enough.

>>63867608
>They don't seem very scared at all and are routinely bombing anything they want
With expensive PGMs launched from Iraqi airspace, not JDAMs directly overhead. They most definitely do not have air superiority.

>>63867618
>With expensive PGMs launched from Iraqi airspace, not JDAMs directly overhead
Shit man, I've seen some footage of Israeli jets zooming right over Iranian targets.
Not sure where you've been looking, or how carefully you had to look to avoid finding what you claim doesn't exist.

>>63865683
>>63865670
>>63865627
https://youtu.be/qebyXS-lt0A

>>63865616
No like the idea of a timeline based on your typo better than objective reality and choose to entertain that line of thought.

>>63867579
Do posters not understand Iran still has MANPADs and can easily show down helicopters? Iran has 650k revolutionary guardsmen, who are effectively Taliban guys with better gear and bombs. Going in on the ground would be insanely expansive, and either very slow, or very costly casualty wise.

>>63868008
>what are cluster bombs?
>what are GATOR mines?

>>63866281
But enough about ziggerstan

>>63867618
you again

>>63865502
Exactly. I don't see why Iran doesn't at least try to take out Dimona. They're such pussies. It pisses me off.

>>63867618
>not JDAMs directly overhead.

>>63867618
>With expensive PGMs launched from Iraqi airspace, not JDAMs directly overhead.
No, they're doing that.

>They most definitely do not have air superiority.
I think they basically do at this point over a large part of western and central Iran. Also having air superiority doesn't mean you're operating risk free and there's no chance any planes get shot down, it just means a high level of advantage and control (i.e. superiority). They appear to have unhindered access into Iran over northern Iraq in a cone heading right into Tehran.

>>63867509
>You're larperator raids aren't gonna happen.
Jews already train extensively and field one of the few SOF units that's publicly known to have launched an operation similar to what'd be required with the raid of the Syrian missile factory.
>>63867579
>They quite literally waited until Syria collapsed
The collapse of the Assad regime didn't by any means create a less dangerous, dynamic, and fluid situation regarding potential hostile forces that might engage them.
>bombed every single piece of equipment
IAF and assorted IDFand Jewish intelligence air assets are and have been doing this unimpeded for a week.
>Iran is not collapsing
Neither was Syria, until it did.
>they're too scared to even fly jets over even after damaging their AD
This is literally, and easily verifiably false. The IAF has - by all accounts and with no serious evidence to the contrary - Air Supremacy over at least the Western/West Central portion of Iran, including over the capital. Only low-flying drones have been reported downed, and very sporadically. No fixed-wing or helos have been downed.
>they aren't gonna be sending helicopters
They very well may, or even wackier shit. The presence of a threat doesn't automatically checkmate the use of that which it's supposed to counter, otherwise no one would've bothered with tanks after HEAT rounds were fielded.
>>63867618
>With expensive PGMs launched from Iraqi airspace
False
>not JDAMs directly overhead
HILARIOUSLY false. The IAF's been dropping SDBs, JDAMs, and SPICE from with Iranian airspace for at least the last 5 days. How are you this wildly ignorant about the war's developments? We're talking about stuff not even Russians or other multipolar simps deny.
>They most definitely do not have air superiority.
Simply declaring things contrary to reality doesn't undo the reality you find upsetting.

>>63868008
>Do posters not understand Iran still has MANPADs
Yes, we do.
>and can easily show down helicopters?
Yes. That doesn't mean you wouldn't see an operation using helicopters all because the threat nominally exists. Also doesn't mean you would, but simply declaring "Iran has MANPADs" is an empty statement.
>Going in on the ground would be insanely expansive, and either very slow, or very costly casualty wise.
Just like when America took fearsome losses when they violated the sovereignty of the fearsome Pakistani Muslim BVLLS to kill bin Fuckhead, who was housed less than 5 miles from the Pakistani West Point. But they did have to scuttle that one stealth helo, thus gifting the tail section to the chinks, so complete thirdie victory, I guess.

>>63867618
>With expensive PGMs launched from Iraqi airspace
What is the CE in SPICE short for again?

>>63867879
That dyed hair looking a little counterrevolutionary and western

>>63865329 (OP)
>Like just destroy the entrances until they're useless bro, it's easy
I would bet the entrances are a backup solution in case trump cucks out/MOP does not work/the factory is deeper that expected. As in, given that the god chosen people likely want to destroy the centrifuges, plan B will likely involve sending commandos. Making them to dig into the destroyed entrances under the possibility of artillery fire is likely suboptimal.
Entrances to the missile bases seemingly shall be destroyed unconditionally though

>>63867489
Iran still has ground forces anon. Snipers camping the entrance will be confronted with opposing infantry at a minimum at some point.

Iran has as much right to nuclear deterrence as Israel does. Ask yourself whether a nuclear armed Iran would be any more dangerous than a nuclear armed Israel. One of these countries is doing an ethnic cleansing and launching an unprovoked invasion, the other is not. And if Trump hadn't pulled out of the Iran deal absolutely none of this would have been necessary. There's nothing that makes Israel having nukes inherently safer than Iran having them, they are both debauched sand people countries and between the two of them, Israel is a bigger threat to US interests since they're meddling in domestic politics and leeching our money.

If you actually believe this is about proliferation, you should unironically seek mental disability services ASAP. This is entirely so that Bibi could dig himself out of the grave he dug himself in Gaza with the Haredi conscription. He's betting that Americans are stupid enough to die for him so that he can avoid going to prison for multiple corruption charges that he is facing.

The jidf shill brigade and their complicit tranny faggot Zionist dick-sucks who moderate this site will undoubtedly ban me again for pointing out this blatantly obvious truth. Others will say I'm a brown /pol/ fag who hates NATO, Ukraine and Jews or some similar nonsense. In reality this is the only reasonable opinion. Let them destroy each other, don't moderate or de-escalate. Pull American money and all military assets out of Israel and let them fight on an even playing field for once, let's see how well they do without their 4 billion dollar insurance policy. Maybe the cowardly faggots won't take us for granted and try to use us as their shield when they have to face consequences for endlessly starting wars. In turn let Iran get clapped, since they serve Chinese and Russian interests and a good portion of the population is sick of religious retards running to government. Win-win, as long as orange man isn't retarded enough to get involved.

>>63868610
>Making them to dig into the destroyed entrances under the possibility of artillery fire is likely suboptimal
There won't be any artillery left by the time the commandos start digging.

>>63868616
>Snipers camping the entrance will be confronted with opposing infantry at a minimum at some point
That assume contested air space which doesn't seem to be the case.
CAS should keep the snipers nice and safe.

>>63868486
US ground troops are not going into Iran. The political will at home just isn there. The left is against it, a huge part of the right is against it. If they did it, there would be domestic paralysis. No one wants another war in the sandbox. So israel would have to send in their own ground forces, and they just dont have the logistics for that. Or the stomach for high casualties.

>>63868630
As you maybe could have deduced from it failing to surpress the Taliban and ISIS, even air supremacy cannot supress infantry to the point that they make their operations completely impossible.

>>63868627
>Iran has as much right to nuclear deterrence as Israel does.
You are brown and stupid. No state has any "right". The world isn't fair, kiddo.

You'll understand when you grow up.

>>63868627
>Iran has as much right to nuclear deterrence as Israel does.
there are no rights beyond those backed by violence

>>63868753
By might is right logic Iran really has no reason not to try and get nukes.

>>63868790
By might is right logic Israel has no reason to not try and stop Iran from getting nukes. Guess which of the two's plans seems to be working better?

>>63865542
My conspiracy is that they're Jewish, so they can tell when they're being scammed. Meanwhile, American procurement readily believes B*eing's statistics that their bomb can go through 200' of concrete because it has a hard tip.
>>63865556
Easily doable. Boeing is renowned for its quality avionics that were absolutely not programmed in India and never, ever fail and kill hundreds of people.

>>63868486
You are talking about a raid, which would be hard as Iran is very big. The Bin Laden raid was only a 190km flight that no one expected. We are talking a 2,000km flight with everyone on high alert, Osama was just chilling in a house, Iran's uranium is chilling in a knockoff of Cheyanne Mountain. So imagine how many choppers that would be, that had to sneak into there without cave dwelling Iranian MANPADs sniggers popping off rockets successfully at.

>>63868627
>Iran has as much right to nuclear deterrence as Israel does.
this might be true in an absolute vacuum, however, then the Iranians decided to join forces with Russia their military defeat became our military necessity and denying them the nuke became very important

>>63868867
Why? Russia already has nukes, anon. If they really "joined forces" they would be covered.

>>63866278
Iranian law allows Christians (Small Armenian minority + Russian expats) to make, sell, and drink alcohol, alcohol is only illegal for Muslims in Iran.

>>63868900
their alliance is offensive, not a defensive one, which is enough reason to wipe them out without mercy

>>63865329 (OP)
The bombs have dropped. The facility was destroyed by an Israeli tactical nuke.

>>63867497
How about you get off your ass and work harder, sonny? Should have gone to college too.

>>63868941
Looks more like Iran just ran a nuke test

>>63868981
This. Also, if anything Trump is going to Zap them just like Bush did the North Koreans in 20005. If you're a believer, we've literally been through this exact scenario at Ryanggang. The North Korean nuclear weapons facility at Ryanggang was magically destroyed in a criticality accident with zero airborne radionuclides to indicate any kind of nuclear incident in 2005. Plus, Trump literally won't shut the fuck about "muh superweapon". He's mentioned it several times in his first term and recently as well.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ryanggang_explosion

>>63865514
How are you gonna blow it up when it's inside and can just push out any rubble you create by trying to bomb the entrances?

>>63865514
>if everyone in the country that knows what the fuck an enrichment centrifuge is and how to use one is a rotten corpse
How you gonna do that when a whole bunch of those are inside that very bunker complex you can't knock out?

>>63866382
>once a month
Congratulations, you managed to impede operation of the facility for approx 12-24 hours a month.

>>63867489
>ground teams
Have fun getting those overrun and annihilated by iranian forces because you can't project enough aerial firepower to actually protect them and don't have the power projection to even get them there and sustain them there.

>>63869042
That's what the North Koreans thought until they got a sunburn on their livers 1500 feet underground.

>>63868469
>that's publicly known to have launched an operation similar
Except for the part where it wasn't similar in any real way.

>>63869022
>>63869066
Cool story, bro. Here's your tinfoil hat.

>>63868753
>>63868761
>>63868790
"Might is right" is a hallmark of low IQ subhumans and is antithetical to the underlying principles of western society. True strength based on a principled approach, which is what made America the greatest empire the world has ever seen. Societies based on no other principle other than blind aggression historically don't end well. Not surprised since you're clearly a lowlife shill who doesn't have any values or moral compass and is not an American.

>>63865329 (OP)
Why can't they set up drilling rigs and fack the hell out of the mountains. They can horizontally bore into the facilities and disrupt them remotely since they're shallow in oil drilling terms.

>>63869149
"Might is right" is how America, west of the Appalachians was claimed.

>>63869082
What happened then, fag?

>>63869149
all laws are backed by violence. study your realpolitik

>>63869172
I think hes merely pointing out that the people who most loudly proclaim might by right are also the ones who cry the loudest when they get hit back (muslims, russians)

>>63865542

Probably because they weren’t actually planning on war with Iran until very recently and Netanyahu launched it half-cocked in a bit to stay in power more than anything else.

>>63865514
The real problem is that you can never know if you got ALL the entrances in the first place.

>>63869236
steal the blueprints

>>63867618
>With expensive PGMs launched from Iraqi airspace
Kek, if that was the case the bombing woudl have ended three days in with Israel running out of ammo.
Iranian incompetence and shitty soviet AA in combination with an airforce fit for a fucking museum have unsurprisingly lead to absolute Israeli air superiority,

>>63868627
The issue is that Iran has an explicit policy of eliminating Israel, with nukes being a means to achieve this. Other countries like Pakistan and India also have bombs, but they don't have a national policy of using them to eliminate another country.

>>63869301
>but they don't have a national policy of using them to eliminate another country.
Yeah they do, each other.

Heh nice tunnel kid but how about I collapse the entrances? thats right the steel that makes up the uranium enriching turbine will decay into ore dust in only 6 thousand years without maintenance, tik tok Iran
Owned

>>63868674
>failing to surpress the Taliban and ISIS
It suppressed the Taliban very well. They had to go hide in villages until it was all over.
ISIS was simply blown the fuck up by it.

>>63869170
>What happened then, fag?
Who the fuck knows?
Not you.

>>63869515
Not what they say happened, that's for sure. Riddle me this, faggot...what's Trump talking about? Do you think he's just being hyperbolic?
https://youtu.be/8Mok46F7LgQ?si=pXmyyCrE_m7Bqa_2
https://www.businessinsider.com/experts-struggle-trump-claim-about-using-force-greater-than-nukes-2019-9

>>63869312
nope

>>63869542
>what's Trump talking about?
Not even Trump knows what he's talking about.

>Do you think he's just being hyperbolic?
Narcissistic is the word. Attention seeking if you prefer a non-clinical term.
Nothing he says tells you anything except what he wants you to currently feel about him or his actions. His words convey only his desired response from you, that's it.

How do these long nose small hat niggas keep finding out about these secret innamountain sites. Are the durka durkas just really bad at hiding secrets? They should have been more sneakier and kept less people in the loop.

>>63865329 (OP)
>>The B61-11 can penetrate and detonate below the earth's surface, creating a massive shock wave capable of destroying underground targets. In tests the bomb penetrates only 20 feet into dry earth, even when dropped from altitudes above 40,000 feet. But even this shallow penetration before detonation allows a much higher proportion of the explosion to transferred into ground shock relative to a surface burst. It is not able to counter targets deeply buried under granite rock. Moreover, it has a high yield, in the hundreds of kilotons.

>The GBU-57 uses a BLU-127 series bomb as the explosive component... for a total explosive payload of 5,342 pounds (2,423 kg)... There is debate regarding the penetration capabilities of the bomb. The US Air Force has stated that the GBU-57 is capable of penetrating up to 200 feet of unspecified material before exploding. Others are claiming penetration up to 60 meters into 5,000 pounds per square inch reinforced concrete, and 8 meters into 10,000 psi reinforced concrete while others arguing 60 feet into 5,000 pounds per square inch reinforced concrete, and 8 feet into 10,000 psi reinforced concrete.

Is it just me, or are the U.S. bomb engineers some trad retard boomers who learned 0 lessons from anti-tank round design? Why are these some stubby steel-casing bullshit instead of a sleek, long, tungsten-alloy, rocket-powered bomb-missile hybrid with many conventional explosive stages ahead of an optional nuclear stage?

>AS AN AMERICAN TAXPAYER, I DEMAND ANSWERS WHY R BUNKA-BUSTA INJUNEER SO DUN FULL 'TARD

>>63869563
>Pedantic TDS fag has pedantic response
What did they photograph out at UTTR? Is that imaginary too?

>>63869564
Yes, Iran is a joke and has been CRAWLING with Mossad for decades. Also, nuclear enrichment requires a lot of power generation and with modern satelites you simply can’t hide it — where the power plants are the enrichment facilities won’t be far away.

>>63869590
>nuclear enrichment requires a lot of power generation
I read it only took 1% of 1942 US electrical production

>>63865329 (OP)
Large ground-penetrating bombs will not be available for this mission.
One pilot in a fighter will have to: bypass air defenses, blast the door(s) open, fly through the access tunnel, make a precise hit on the science labs and materials storage, and exit through the other side. All in one pass.

>>63869608
The pilot who achieves this must be in touch with the Force and have a very high midichlorian count.

I wonder why Israel can do SEAD while Russia and Ukraine can’t.

>>63869620
perhaps israel has penetrated iran so deep they know locations of iranian assets better than the iranian command does

also they have the materiel advantage

>>63869613
Alternatively, they must be flying the lone remaining F-14 and have won a game of beach volleyball earlier in the week.

Just nuke these pussies. And China. And Russia. And Canada. And invade Mexico. Fucking tired of the blue balls and working in corporate America. Let’s get this party started.

>>63869620
>I wonder why Israel can do SEAD while Russia and Ukraine can’t.
Nobody else does, the reasons are obvious to us all.

>>63869567
Sure you can make a super bomb, but you need a super bomber to deliver it, the GBU-57 is about the longest thing that fits in the B2 bomb bay.

>>63869670
>Just nuke these pussies.
see >>63869567 some retards made the nuclear "bunker buster" that can barely bust the adit of an 1850s gold mine.

>>63869709
even with the current length and weight limitations, a thinner higher density design would penetrate better. but why not carry it outside the aircraft and make it more bigly? the Next Generation Penetrator is going the right direction with rocket power, but the wrong direction with a smaller design.

>>63869790
Because most of the times you're hitting a hardened target like this, you're in the middle of a war and need it to fit inside your stealth plane so it can deliver it without getting shot down. The fact that Israel has such control of the skies that they could fly C-130s over and shove it out the back, Rapid Dragon style, while being incapable or unwilling to just commit ground forces to demo it from the inside, is not what you design weapons around.

>>63867476
You want we should be gifted only one B2? Oy Vey, I can’t believe my greatest ally would only give me 5 b2 bombers. How dare you try to cheap out on me with 10 free B2 bombers? What can we even accomplish with 20 B2 bombers? You’ll be hearing from your AIPAC guy!

>>63869695
…what? IAF is the only Air Force on the planet that does SEAD….?

>>63869842
No one else wonders why Israel can SEAD while Russia and Ukraine cannot, dumbfuck.

>>63866281
Only if they were brown.

It's easy to bomb a lab under a mountain if you just use enough explosives.

Are Iranian AD systems so bad that after 1 week they haven't got a single IDF kill?

>>63869808
>oh wow waht stratergeric values does it has to BTFO bunkers over 300 feet underground from da air!? ain't nobody got time to study all that refractory metals shit! just make it super-compact!

>>63868439
Well Iran is huge, they cannot control their entire air border, they don't have enough AA.

>>63869862
>they don't have enough AA.
sounds like a kind of problem you're supposed to solve before shooting starts

>>63869827
For me, it's the F-35. The best Joint Strike Fighter. I even ask for extra AMRAAMs, and the US Government is so friendly and more than willing to oblige.

One time I asked for one billion dollars in F-35s and they gave me three billion dollars worth of F-35s. I said, "Wow, three for free!" and the nice friendly American Congressman laughed and said, "I'm going to call you 3-for-free-Is-rae-li".

Now Congress greets me with "hey, it's 3-for-free-Is-rae-li!" and ALWAYS gives me three billion dollars worth of F-35s. It's such a fun and cool atmosphere here at the Israeli Ministry of Defense. I go beg Congress at least 3 times a week for advanced fighter jets, 1-2 times for Patriot missiles on the weekend, and maybe once for high powered laser systems when I'm in a rush, but want a great networked defense system that is affordable, fast, and can match my daily sandnigger destruction needs.

I even sell their weapons technology to the Chinese! it's highly classified! What a great country.

Seems more appropriate now than ever.

>>63869857
>why yes, I can fly a giant "shoot me" sign over the vital strategic structure that the enemy invested massive amounts of time and money to put hundreds of meters under the ground with impunity
>but sending in some dudes with c4 is hard, m'kay

>>63869636
Awaiting that pilot on the other side will be the Ayatollah, in the sole functioning Q-313. With the plane controlling the launches of Iran's nuclear arsenal- set to begin in 10 minutes...unless he's shot down.

>>63869608
We are going to Zap them or nothing at all. Thanks to the Cold War DoD, even the fucking North Koreans know to put your bunkers <1500 feet below ground to avoid someone ruining your burgeoning nuclear weapons with a B-61. Even the Mod 13 can't get to that depth. Even if it can, you're not guaranteed to destroy the target. Trump doesn't have the political capital to get away with dropping an actual nuclear weapon anyways. So there is only two ways to play it.
>Zap them and play it off like our bunker busters are fucking amazing
>Zap them and start a new arms race because unlike NK, Iranians have Twitter
There was back to back earthquakes coincidentally right near a known Iranian nuclear facility in the last two days. Iran has subsequently withdrawn from any additional nuclear disarmament talks today. Either it's a coincidence or it's not. Magnitude indicates that it COULD be construed as a test of a multi-stage nuclear weapon. An MOP, or even a few, definitely won't do the job. So the options are...
>Drop multiple 400kt+ nuclear weapons a couple hours from Tehran while the entire world is watching
>Zap them and blame it on some serendipitous "criticality accident" or crow about how fucking amazing our MOPs are in action
>Inb4 this retarded faggot saying it's not real
IDGAF. Explain to me how anything but an earth penetrating, multi-megaton nuclear weapon is going to definitively do the job

>>63869982
>Trump doesn't have the political capital to get away with dropping an actual nuclear weapon anyways.
but he has *my* authorization and personal approval, that has to count for something

>>63869942
>found a reason to fight yet...<
>habibi?<

>>63865329 (OP)
I was taught by media that attacking a sovereign country is evil and something only russians do

>>63870013
Invading for conquest is bad, bombing durka durkas back into the old hallucination caves is based.

>>63870013
>I was taught by media that attacking a sovereign country is evil and something only russians do
Iran joined forces with Russia, making Iranian military defeat our military necessity, knocking Iran out is literally an extension of anti-Russia policies

>>63870004
[Tar and Daf music intensifies]

>>63870013
>i was only doing proxy warfare as a prank
>you're not allowed to actually hit me

>>63865329 (OP)
why do the only build military bases underground? why dont they build cities? iran barely has any flat land to build on. imagine having to invade an underground city that is carved through mountains.

>>63870105
>imagine having to invade an underground city that is carved through mountains.
people don't like me saying this but sieges and starvation are real weapons of war

>>63865514
>By what, all the big, fat, slow earthmoving equipment that you can just keep blowing up?
You can't though anon, or rather, Israel can't. It tends to get ignored in low effort threads like these on /k/, but aviation combat is really fucking expensive. An F-35 is like, $10k/flight hour, minimum, and that's a good price. Armaments are expensive. Missiles are expensive. This little excursion will probably cost Israel something like $10 billion. And Americans can easily forget but for most countries that's real money. Israel has a GDP of around $580 billion, which for their population size is extremely good, but war is about absolutes as much as relative. In contrast the GDP of America is about $30 trillion. In terms of percentage of national GDP, it'd be like this was a war costing America over half a trillion dollars. No joke.

So Israel cannot afford to just keep it up indefinitely, they've got a pretty fixed window. Anything the Iranians can wait out a month isn't much value.

>>63870105
1) Normies will soiface and go insane if they don't see the sun for 12 hours
2) In some places, it will get very hot due to the geothermal gradient and exposed surface area
3) You have to continually drain the thing. If power fails, or you stop dewatering for a bit, the city will start to flood.
4) You have to manage your own atmosphere. Poisonous gases can accumulate easily underground, either from natural sources like radon or unnatural things like vehicle exhausts or chemical offgassing. Sometimes these can blow up.
>t. has worked in an underground mine before

>>63870152
>1) Normies will soiface and go insane if they don't see the sun for 12 hours
what we do in the arctic circle is eat vitamin D supplement

>>63869998
Mine as well. He won't shut the fuck up about it, so that's something. The dismissive fag above has been conspicuously absent from commentary thus far. Everyone thinks he's just a retard, but he keeps mentioning SOMETHING. If there wasn't documented evidence of something fired at UTTR, the tard might have a point. Unironically this is one of the most well documented "UAP" sightings of all time. Not only are there photos, but Dave even got the local Fox News affiliate to call UTTR and ask them about it. They even confirmed something happened, but it's just a "live fire exercise". Sure...okay

>>63870152
Yeah it's not remotely trivial, also the sheer cost of that much volume extraction. Amusingly (given the topic) it's actually the sort of thing nukes would make a lot easier, way back in the heyday of Atoms For Peace and all that they gave serious thought into using specifically engineering nuclear demolition devices for all sorts of massive underground works, cross continental giant subways and so on.

Also on thread topic, a lot of the things you mention can be ameliorated, but the easy ways to do so just leave the underground city militarily exposed again in different ways (cheap, naive massive air exchange is an obvious target point for example). That too can be mitigated, but you start talking so much money and then have to weigh that against
>"hey wait a second why not just put 10% of that into military and air defense instead which is useful all the time"
and it's pretty obvious why no one has bothered.

>>63870165
>what we do in the arctic circle is eat vitamin D supplement
Normies aren't in the arctic (or antarctic) lol. And look at the suicide rates in the far north.

>>63870152
3 and 4 sound like real killers, especially since iran gets alot of snow

>>63870192
>And look at the suicide rates in the far north.
I probably get fewer than handful minutes of sun on average per day and I have never felt really depressed, but my people have lived here a long time

What drives leaders in the middle east? How do you wake up and keep your sanity knowing your life is a real game of civ? Is religion that powerful when you go down the rabbit hole that much? Is having that much responsibility some surreal feeling where your mind is on some plane of existence beyond this place?

>>63870206
I mean sure, I'm a northerner to and I fucking love it. Already looking forward to darker days and winter. But we're talking about iranians here right? Not exactly polar people. I mean shit, I remember long ago having some family come to visit or are pure coast people, coasts their entire lives. We thought it would be a fun little thing while they were visiting to just drive to the top of a medium mountain I've been hiking since I was like 9yo, 6000' or so, just driving up an access road not hiking. Beautiful view and nothing crazy. They couldn't make it to the top, got altitude sickness, blew my mind because if it was 10k yeah I'd be careful but 6k didn't even register to me. We all live in our little bubbles. They'd probably laugh in turn if we got sea sick over a "light storm".

>>63870042
israel?

>>63870147
That's an extremely good point and I hadn't considered it.

>>63869920
As good as anti-anti-air offenses are getting, such as with Israel on Iran, flying a giant "shoot me" sign around is pretty viable these days past the initial wave. The real smart move is developing a specialized anti-bunker ICBM that goes hypersonic though, not something you drop from planes.

>>63870222
You have the money and power to indulge in whatever most vile and depraved whims you have, and all it costs is trying to keep a populace of 70IQ mongloids from rising up and deposing you. It's hardly a Middle East exclusive thing, just they get more publicity about it then Africa because the world needs the region to be stable to buy oil.

>>63869982
trump wants to use it though, he flaps his mouth all the time about it "better than nuclear weapons"

>>63870280
>That's an extremely good point and I hadn't considered it.
I'll add then fwiw that math all changes if they DO manage to get America involved. And in turn they're probably extremely serious about trying to make that happen which we should all keep in mind. It's easy to get the feeling that it's like when America wanted to get its allies onboard for Afghanistan or Iraq: sure, it'd be NICE to have more help and more burden sharing, and sort of a rah rah, but nobody thought for a second we couldn't just go it alone indefinitely if we really felt like it, or that we wouldn't be doing most of the heavy lifting either way. We wanted the show of solidarity and maybe some payback for everything America spent on NATO etc etc, but if some allies made kinda token efforts it never really mattered that much either.

But that's definitely not the case this time. Israel can do a sizable amount alone, but this is no America vs Shitholestan situation, Iran has a GDP of around $340 billion and that's being per capita 15x (fifteen fucking times) less than Israel due to being an astonishingly retardedly run corrupt extractive theocracy. They're punching way below their weight because they're shit, but that's not the same as Israel actually being able to conquer them or sustain a long term campaign. So we can expect Israel to try really, really hard to get the US involved, and involved in a way that costs the US lots of money. I'm not judging (though I personally don't want to be involved the ME ever again), just observing the raw national interest. They have true reason to push any buttons and pull any levers they've got over America pretty hard.

>>63870307
Bro, he's totally going to Zap them. He literally will not shut the fuck up about it. American hegemony began when we dropped the first nukes, so why wouldn't he want to flex now? Literally no one, me included, wants fucking boots on the ground in Iran. Destabilizing a country that has 99% of the capability for high sophistication nuclear weapons that just happens to border every "istan" seems like a shitty idea. I feel the same way about Russia, but the DoD seems to give zero shits about that potential scenario . At least there is a potential moderate government option in Russia. There is no real moderate option for Iran.

>>63870345
I get where you're coming from, I'd prefer the US never going back into the sandbox again as well. Wilsonian intervention has proven a failure, the success of the Marshall plan and the rebuilding of Japan and Germany gave foreign policy makers the mistaken belief that you could just go "liberal representative democracy!" and it would stick while ignoring the reality of how unique the American experience has been. So what happens if the US doesn't get involved in any capacity besides the obvious continuing weapon shipments because of course that's not going to stop? Does Israel say fuck it and keep going no matter the price? Russia is lurching on despite the economic disaster they've made for themselves and the impending economic collapse, but they're also functionally a dictatorship. Or do they decide if they can't prevent the Iranians from developing a nuke by destroying their ability to do so they'll make sure they're too poor to do so and start destroying oil infrastructure, consequences be damned? Even then OPEC has about 1.8 mbd surplus production capacity outside Iran if reports from a month ago are to be believed. Or are they hoping to cause enough disruption the Iranian government collapses, or gets weakened enough to have to redouble internal security and worry about an ambitious faction gaining control of any nukes and using them to seize power?

>>63870454
What would the Israelis even do? Hope for foreign intervention and boots on the ground? They don't have the force projection for that alone, and it's certainly palatable here in the US where we definitively know the Israeli government started it. A handful of well placed nuclear weapons could effectively end the state of Israel. Even if they won, what then? Let all these sensitive technologies and equipment proliferate to every "istan" you can imagine? Sounds like a shitty idea.
Unironically the foreign policy "experts" should watch the FX show "Tyrant" before completely destabilizing a nuclear capable theocratic government.

>>63870528
>Let all these sensitive technologies and equipment proliferate to every "istan" you can imagine?
>the foreign policy "experts" should watch the FX show "Tyrant" before completely destabilizing a nuclear capable theocratic government.
I am not crazy I swear, hear me out

do the Mongol thing, depopulate these areas completely

>>63870572
you mean ethnic cleansing?

>>63870580
make a desert and call it peace

>>63870453
>99% of the capability for high sophistication nuclear weapons

PAH-LEEZE

They got like half a ton of 60% U235, a cuck-ass megawatt tritium production reactor that got mothballed and bombed to oblivion, and some French-Pussian-Whatever former-gigawatt gigachad reactor that is decades behind schedule and giga-cucked down into the low hundreds of megawatts of predicted theoretical capacity by shit-tier thirdie inshallah injuneerun.

Iran has the a few of the most basic bitch nukes out there, if any nukes at all.

>>63870572
Literally the only solution. There has been wars over the regional control for thousands of years. I would be on board with this if we actually did it and made most of the Arabian Peninsula the 51st state. Fuck you Israel, you're Lakewood, NJ now.

>>63870592
Possibly, however
>Back to back 4.6 and 5.2 megaton earthquakes yesterday and today
>Withdrew completely from nuclear talks today
>Seismic activity could POTENTIALLY be a test of 100-200kt nuclear weapon
>This indicates either a shit load of plutonium (unlikely given the current climate) or a solid hydride boosted 2 stage nuclear weapons test
I think they are farther along than what we know. The Israeli government embarked on a suicide mission without the hope of US intervention. It's gay that if it was a nuclear test, they didn't do it out in the open. However, anyone watching would know. They have had IAEA reactor inspections. I would be curious to know if any KC135s were airborne and the time of the "earthquake".

>>63870672
it doesn't matter, even if they had a nuke and a working launch site it's basically a coinflip if it would even land without being intercepted and then they've blown all their weapons material and still lost

>>63870734
>even if they had a nuke and a working launch site it's basically a coinflip if it would even land without being intercepted
what if they use a ship or train to deliver it?

>>63870672
>https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/5-1-magnitude-quake-rattles-northern-iran-amid-israel-war/
>A 5.1-magnitude earthquake shook northern Iran, the US Geological Survey says, as Israel pounded the country with repeated waves of airstrikes.
>The quake, which Iran’s Tasnim news agency says measured 5.2, struck at a depth of 10 kilometers (six miles) some 37 kilometers (23 miles) southwest of the city of Semnan, the USGS says.
Damn, them Uraniums dun mining six miles underground to test their nukes!? I'm not saying it's the world's deepest hole, but definitely the world's deepest nuclear test if that's what it is.

>protip: probably natural earthquake

>>63870764
they couldn't even sail greta thunberg into israel what chance does a bomb have

>>63870766
Also...
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_Beirut_explosion
>On 4 August 2020, a major explosion occurred in Beirut, Lebanon, triggered by the ignition of 2,750 tonnes of ammonium nitrate.
>Yield
>Despite inefficient transmission of the shock waves into the ground, the United States Geological Survey measured the event as a 3.3 local magnitude earthquake, while the Jordan Seismological Observatory reported that it was equivalent to a 4.5 ML earthquake. A study of seismic signatures of the explosion by the Federal Institute for geosciences and Natural Resources in Germany produced a yield estimate between 0.5 and 1.1 kt of TNT.

>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_North_Korean_nuclear_test
>The United States Geological Survey reported an earthquake of 6.3 magnitude not far from North Korea's Punggye-ri nuclear test site.
>Max. yield ~50 kilotons of TNT (210 TJ) based on Korea Meteorological Administration to ~260 kilotons of TNT (1,100 TJ) based on ISRO synthetic-aperture radar analysis

If this was actually a deep-ass nuke test, it's a coin flip between a sort of bigly boomer uranium package and some kind of shit-tier more advanced fusion design that doesn't work too well, even worse than North Korea's.

>>63870766
Initial depth listed on USGS was not 10km

>>63870782
its boosted fission goes up that high thirdies can't into fusion

>>63870779
>they couldn't even sail greta thunberg into israel what chance does a bomb have
Greta wasn't invited, I was thinking along the lines of managing to hide it aboard a ship expected to dock in target area

>>63865567
>USA only has 20 MOP btw at around $4m a pop
The initial order was for 20 MOPs, however the MOP program is an iterative design and we know they're on at least the fifth version as of 2024, estimates put the current stockpile at ~30-50 MOPs, and they're likely more modern variants than the initial GBU-57A (with the originals likely being updated to a later standard and or potentially used in training/testing).

The most recent iteration we're aware of is the GBU-57F.

>>63868469
>Jews already train extensively and field one of the few SOF units that's publicly known to have launched an operation similar to what'd be required with the raid of the Syrian missile factory.
you mean they have AMERICAN SOF doing it in their uniform

>>63865329 (OP)
is this another bin ladens GI JOE TALIBAN MOUNTAIN PLAYSET fantasies by spooks?

>>63870734
>it's basically a coinflip if it would even land without being intercepted
Nukes don't land, lmao, you fucking pseud. Intercepting a nuke needs to be done at thousands of feet, which is one of the reasons why systems like THAAD exist. The optimum detonation height for a 5 mile wide soft target with a 1MT nuke is 10,000 feet. The wider your target area, the higher you detonate.

>>63870801
I'm not sure Iran should be trying sneaky beaky stuff with how clearly Mossad has infiltrated them.

>>63870823
just saying, I wouldn't use easy to intercept method for a weapon I only have few of

>>63870802
The more I hear about this "bunker buster" program, now that the U.S. only even has like a few dozen with a unit cost of millions, the more it seems like the single biggest Achilles' heel in its military.

somehow it's a little disappointing that the conversation is between big bomb vs. nuclear bomb. i was hoping israel would pull out more looney tunes stuff like with the pagers or the drone factories

>>63870812
That doesn't happen any more

>>63870841
Would you rather gamble on the technical ability to intercept or the ability to keep the entire operation from the ears of the jews? If I was Iran, I would be much more willing to bet on the former then the latter, but I'd also be smart enough to realize that using a nuke means that my entire country turns to glass.

>>63870846
It's one of the only ways to get through deep underground hardened structures.

You don't want to use a nuke if you can avoid it after all and going in on foot is stupid.

Also there was talk about tripling the MOP production line capacity which would potentially allow the US to produce dozens per year if they decided they needed them.

At the moment there likely only a few dozen targets across the entire planet that would warrant using this type of bomb in the first place, so "only" having 30-50 isn't really a huge deal when you hopefully only need 2-8 of these per facility.

>>63870852
I wish i had a comfy underground mountain fortress

>>63870852
did we ever find this place?

>>63870854
>Would you rather gamble on the technical ability to intercept
I was taught that with a weapon like this you need redundancy with both the weapon itself and the delivery and I personally agree with that lesson
>the ability to keep the entire operation from the ears of the jews?
yeah in reality Iran has already lost

>>63870868
>this place

Rumsfeld went on tv and said there were multiple fortresses.

>>63870851
>>63870855
If Israel had put high-level Jewish alchemy wizards on this one, they would have targeted the ventilation buildings near Iran's underground nuclear facilities with many tanks of silane, borane, triethylaluminium, and acetylene instead of explosive material. The ventilation systems would have turned into gigantic firestorms. That ship has sailed now.

>>63870882
Based Rummy

>>63865329 (OP)

Well they have many tunnels so missing one is possible and it's not so hard to clear the rubble if the equipment is safe.

The US in Vietnam regularly blew up vietnamese tunnel entrances but it would just cause the Vietnamese to rebuilt them in the following fee days.

Israeli could likely bomb the crap out of area and send in a demolition crew with helicopters while planes prevent forces to get there like they did in Syria.

>>63865734

They won't blow up the rectors because they are too close to Saudi and Kuwait.

Getting a Chernobyl affecting the friendly gulf states would cause other issues.

So the Iranians by putting the reactors next to their neighbors they effectively made them really tricky to hit. And with those they can always make a dirty bomb if so they wish as dirty bombs have no need for high enrichment and just one going through would cause the entirety of Tell Aviv to be evacuated for years of clean up even if it would cause very few to none immediate casualties. Also we know their new most advanced missiles can get trough Israel air defense in about 1/4 or 1/5 ratio while older missiles are 3/100 ratio and Hamas style fireworks grande missiles are less than 1/1000 ratio.

So they can only blow up the enrichment facilities, research areas, universities teaching nuclear science, launchers and nuclear engineers homes.

>>63866307
well that's all the confirmation I need. You retards got a small recruitment bump this year after trump got in office and actually hit your quota. Enjoy it because it will be the last one you ever get.

>>63870147

Didn't the US give Israel 30 billions on free taxpayers money when they approved one of the last big aid package for Ukraine? Till Bibi owns the majority of US politicians the Americans will foot the bill.

>>63871212
>They won't blow up the rectors because they are too close to Saudi and Kuwait.
Israel already BTFO'd the Arak reactor that Iran claimed was decommissioned.

Binkov just did a great video that explained the feasibility of attacking the Fordo facility. The gist of it was:

>Israel has the weapons to take it out, but they are nuclear.
>The facility is a long hallway that runs directly beneath and parallel to the ridgeline of the mountain, divided by blast doors and linked by multiple parallel side hallways in case of cave ins.
>Assuming a sloped tunnel, 90m of hard rock is protecting the hallway.
>Multiple american bunker busters would be needed to reach and collapse the whole structure, at least 36, but maybe 90.
>Bunker busters must come down vertically because diagonal impacts would cause the hole to self seal via cave-ins.

Basically, it's not gonna happen. America stands to lose a lot from getting involved, due to the expenditure of munitions and the real chance that they might not even be successful.

>>63870179
what are you talking about and who is dave

>>63871335
Time to send in the commandos

>>63871350
Binkov covered that scenario as well. It's somewhat possible, but it would be a humongous undertaking. There's only two roads to the facility and Israel could realistically lock them down with air cover, thereby cutting off reinforcements.

However, there's likely a whole brigade of royal guard at Fordo by now, and you can bet that they've fortified the shit out of the facility, with multiple pillboxes in the tunnels. It would take thousands of airdropped soldiers to capture the facility, and after the job is done, they would need to be extracted by lots and lots of choppers.

>>63871212
I don't think there's any worry of that. Enrichment conveniently is already safely underground. They have a heavy water reactor which should naturally shut itself down relatively safely if it loses cooling with nothing to burn (the coolant is the moderator so it's passively safe).

>>63871363
Israelis are well experiences now fighting in tunnels. I assume they have flying and ground based drones which can be sent into the holes.

>>63869942
Suffocated my own coke reading this

>>63865329 (OP)
What a load of bullshit. US/Israeli intelligence is blind and incompetent.

>>63870105
>why do the only build military bases underground? why dont they build cities?
They suck to live in and are difficult to keep liveable.

Life support mechanisms are mostly automatic on the surface, living below ground requires extensive technology to make work because we're really not evolved for extended subterranean dwelling.

>>63871380
Well yeah, but these tunnels would have blast doors, sandbagged positions, and unless the Iranians are retarded, they'd at least have some nets hanging from the ceiling to stop flying drones.

>>63871387
Actually, we've seen termite nests that use the sun to provide natural circulation. You have an above ground mound that heats up the internal air and makes it rise, which draws in fresh air at the bottom.

>>63871388
>unless the Iranians are retarded

>>63870179
>The dismissive fag above has been conspicuously absent from commentary thus far
Because debating schizos is a very poor use of one's time.

>>63870280
>That's an extremely good point and I hadn't considered it.
Probably why you see Germany saying things like "Israel is doing our dirty work".
They might be foreshadowing some gibs to keep Israel's campaign going, which is obviously in the west's interests regardless of any lobbying.

>>63871335
Why don't we just sent a fighter jet into the tunnel?

>>63871422
There'd be no room for it to turn around. It would make more sense to airdrop a tank and use a fulton recovery system to retrieve the crew afterwards

>>63871335
>>63871345
>>63871363
Seeing how just fucked the bombardment "bunker-busting" situation is, I think Israel's best shot at BTFOing Fordow now is dropping commando teams with two drill rigs, penetrating the facility at opposite ends, then putting liquid oxygen down one hole and liquid dicyanoacetylene down the other, finally some sparklers.

Trying to capture the tunnels with a firefight would be very challenging compared to a drill and blast strategy.

>>63870846
>the more it seems like the single biggest Achilles' heel in its military.
There's a reason people build bunkers, it's not (usually) cargo cult defences.

>>63870868
>did we ever find this place?
Did it even exist?
Some dug-in bunkers/tunnels were found but they were never as sophisticated as that I don't think.

>>63871392
>we've seen termite nests that use the sun to provide natural circulation
That would be the technological part. Architecture is technology.
Replicating that on a city scale wouldn't be practical, the upper mound is too vulnerable to air strikes, defeating the purpose of going underground in the first place.
If you scaled a termite mound to city size, you'd have a kind of hollow and very tall mountain above the city which probably suffers from some cube-square constraint preventing it from being city-sized to begin with.
You need the density of the mound to be low enough to support its weight without collapsing on to the city but low-density means ineffective as shielding from air strikes.
I suppose you could have a few km of what is effectively city-scaled spaced armour which would absorb a lot of punishment.

It wouldn't look like an underground city though, it might look something like an ultra-compact, high-density city covered in a giant concrete sponge the size of a small state with sparse structural elements to keep the whole thing together.
You'd use a network of high-pressure reinforced concrete which supported a lot of low-pressure concrete which is just lighter-weight filler material, the overall contrast map of the structure should look like a foam with lots of low-pressure concrete bubbles.
Then just connect a bunch of bubbles together to make air channels for your circulation I guess.
You'd still need a lot of external surface area on the structure to capture enough solar energy to heat the air to guarantee circulation even in extended bad weather, the ideal structure for that might be more of a mushroom with the entire city located inside the base of the stalk and the mushroom stalk and head being all energy capture, shielding and respiration in the form of a concrete mushroom body.

>>63871422
>Why don't we just sent a fighter jet into the tunnel?
The ace selected is under investigation for treason.

>>63865329 (OP)
months away from enrichment hey shlomo

>>63869709
>Sure you can make a super bomb, but you need a super bomber to deliver it
Duct tape wings to it.

>>63869542
Any time Trump does something loud for headlines you should look at what's happening behind the scenes, it's all part of the cover.

>>63871409
>They might be foreshadowing some gibs to keep Israel's campaign going, which is obviously in the west's interests regardless of any lobbying.
This. Even if Trump TACOs he'll be supplying the Israelis with all the munitions and spares and intel they need to keep bombing Iran either indefinitely or until they completely cry uncle and give up the nuke program entirely with on the ground verification. Israel won't run out of money or arms before the job is done one way or another.

>>63871445
>drill and blast strategy

>>63871538
>Israel won't run out of money or arms before the job is done one way or another.
And guess what China and Russia/NK are gonna do? You think that the lessons learned in Ukraine dont apply here? Proxy wars go both ways buddy.

Not to mention that the world is shockingly anti-Israel on this one. Haven seen this much aversion to a regime, since Apartheid South Africa.

>>63871562
>guess what China and Russia/NK are gonna do
Seethe? They're probably having a "Why doesn't my barbecue look like that?!" moment.

>>63871572
Theyre gonna keep sending missiles, just like the US and if things keep going as theyre going, not gonna end too well for Israel.

But here I am arguing with a literal government paid shill.

>>63865527
lol

>>63865734
what's "yellowcake"?

>>63869236
Simply look out for any areas that suddenly have a lot more traffic than they did before.

>>63871562
>And guess what China and Russia/NK are gonna do?
Russia can't do shit, they're tapped out on arms, money and blood. Iran doesn't need their oil or gas.
China/NK can't send weapons because ships will explode in Iranian docks.

>You think that the lessons learned in Ukraine dont apply here?
They do but you've learnt the wrong lesson.

>Proxy wars go both ways buddy
It's some kind of triple-edged sword here actually.

Russia kicked off a great Middle-Eastern chimp-out to distract from the proxy war in Ukraine, now it's burnt out of control and become a drag on Russia instead of The West and munitions of all kinds that Russia used to buy from Iran are being bombed in warehouses and factories without ever getting to Ukraine.

The Gaza proxy war has metastasised into some kind of triple agent, set on fire by Hamas, exploited by Israel and turned against Russia by Iran's incompetence.

>Not to mention that the world is shockingly anti-Israel on this one.
No, that was Gaza.
The west is fine with Iran being pounded and any noise about Israel is just Gaza-related.

>Haven seen this much aversion to a regime, since Apartheid South Africa.
You child, even Bush got this much hate.

You're clutching at straws to tell yourself everything is fine when it's very, very bad for you Ivan.
Your eagerness to believe that the world will turn on Israel just shows how desperate you are because you're depending on impersonal global politics to save you, like making a burnt offering to unknown, unknowing gods and you have no ability to know if your prayers are being heard or if there's anyone even listening but you don't have anything else you can do so you just keep on praying to the gods.
The gods of public opinion, the gods of wunderwaffen, the gods of "the west getting bored"...you keep finding new gods to pray to because each in turn has failed to answer your prayer and it probably never even existed to begin with but you just keep searching for new gods to pray to.

>>63871588
>what's "yellowcake"?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellowcake

>>63871592
I started replying, but then I got to this part:
>You think that the lessons learned in Ukraine dont apply here?
>They do but you've learnt the wrong lesson.
You should probably take your meds or cash that shill paycheck, either way have a nice day.

>>63871592
>Russia can't do shit, they're tapped out on arms, money and blood. Iran doesn't need their oil or gas.
>China/NK can't send weapons because ships will explode in Iranian docks.
Russia borders China and North Korea. China and Iran both border Afganistan. China drinks oil like a maniac. China has every reason and ability to help.

>>63871182
>vietnam
Was half a century ago in a jungle with people burrowing through dirt anywhere they felt like. This is a mountain, in a desert, that everyone on the planet knows where it is, and is under constant surveillance.
>relatively easy to repair
There's a whole different world to repairing a tunnel collapse in a mountain than just "move rocks"
>>63871212
>chernobyl effect
Chernonbyl was as bad as it was because the russians used graphite control rods which just burn forever once they're on fire and spread radioactive graphite ash everywhere. And what was the overall effect outside the immediate casualties amongst the first responders? Did anyone evacuate any cities outside the immediate area? Did anyone not exposed directly to the worst of the shit die from radiation poisoning? I'm glad people are cautious about shit like nuclear waste and potential radioactive fuck ups but there's a point where it becomes hysteria.
>>63871335
>expenditure of munitions
Oh no the US used some expensive bombs man it sure is a shame the US can't just make more to replace them if it wanted.
>>63871576
Why would russia piss of the people that own it?

>>63871576
>If I call them the shill, they surely won't notice that I'm the one doing the shilling

>>63870454
>Does Israel say fuck it and keep going no matter the price?
I think so. There was some talk in the Israeli papers that this would be a two-week thing but I think that's B.S. and they are steeling themselves for a long war with Iran. They bombed Syrian military equipment for months after Assad fell, and there were quite a lot of Israeli air strikes there before Assad fell targeting AD and Hezbollah and missile inventories, and a nuclear site some years ago. What's to stop them from continuing to bomb Iran six months or a year from now? Iran can't stop them. Trump isn't stopping them.

It's common in Western countries to think in terms of a rational system, like a railroad that's built according to a logical timetable. The Middle East isn't like that, it's more like a perpetually unstable ecosystem so small changes in one area can lead to unpredictable changes throughout the entire system. So when they beat up Hezbollah and killed Nasrallah, that had bigger effects on the whole system, which was Assad falling, which cleared the path for Israel to strike at Iran.

>>63870528
>What would the Israelis even do? Hope for foreign intervention and boots on the ground?
The Israelis want us to bomb Iran. I'm sure they'd like for us to invade it but that's not going to happen. Basically I think the Israelis are crazy but their enemies continually underestimate them. I don't think they have any "nation building" plans either, it's not how they think. It's way more of a strong horse kind of mentality over there, and what matters is power and strength. Also just being able to smash up the Iranian military and nuclear program to delay them is seen as worth it. They launched multiple wars with their Arab neighbors because they didn't like them building up their militaries. This was the approximate cause for the Suez war in the 1950s. And even between wars with Egypt, they fought "wars of attrition" of artillery duels, air strikes, and commando raids.

>>63871690
I've heard they estimated civilian casualties in the hundreds during the first few days. We're at about 30(?) now and Iran has expened a good portion of their long range munitions. No shit will they keep going.

>>63871562
>Not to mention that the world is shockingly anti-Israel on this one. Haven seen this much aversion to a regime, since Apartheid South Africa.
I don't think this will do anything to the Israelis. They really don't care. I don't even mean like someone saying "I don't care" but they actually do and they're coping, I mean they. don't. care. Caring about this is physically impossible for Israelis. It's like Americans caring about military parades. It's something embedded deeply in the culture, they can't do it. They don't care about Kanye's Hitler song. American Jews get up in a sweat up about every goddamned thing being antisemitic but I don't think Israelis are like that at all. They don't tend to think, "we can't do this because it's right/wrong" in some moral sense. Like, is it "wrong" or is it "terrorism" to do the pager attacks. In the Western countries, we constantly moralize about everything and have absurd, idiotic arguments all the time.

>>63871592
>The gods of public opinion, the gods of wunderwaffen, the gods of "the west getting bored"...you keep finding new gods to pray to because each in turn has failed to answer your prayer and it probably never even existed to begin with but you just keep searching for new gods to pray to.
Exactly. Israel is more like a character in their own moral story. This how the Abrahamic offshoots of Judaism relate to it but they keep getting rugpulled.

>>63868627
>Iran has as much right to nuclear deterrence as Israel does
I agree that is to say they have 0 right to nuclear weapons.

>>63868627
I do agree though apart from Iran having the right to Nukes

>>63871562
>Not to mention that the world is shockingly anti-Israel on this one. Haven seen this much aversion to a regime, since Apartheid South Africa.

In the West Israel's Gaza war is very unpopular, but it's war against Iran is actually very popular. People can hold both ideas simultaneousyly.

Also Russia doesn't have anything worthwhile to spare for Iran, and anything NK might want to send would have to go through Russia and Russia would like that equipment for itself.

why is it my problem to pay for a kike war?

>>63871629
>China has every reason and ability to help
Sure but what can they do?
Send weapon shipments through Afghanistan?
Are you use the Taliban are that willing to piss off the west again?
They're well aware of what a JDAM feels like and they're not in caves now, it could be a return to jihad for them.

Even if they come in by truck through Afghanistan, there's still nothing stopping Israel from just blowing those shipments up. They'll be very obvious to surveillance and easy to strike with a drone.

>>63871866
asking questions is anti-semitic

>>63871711
>Exactly
You're a schizo.

You thought that post talking about prayers was about what exactly?
It was about zigger magical thinking and appealing to deus ex machina to save them.

The reason you thought it is connected to your post is because you have no critical thinking and don't question things that you think support your opinion.

>>63865329 (OP)
Man if only the Israelis hadn’t killed the guy who was negotiating with the US to get rid of their nuclear program-they wouldn’t have to bomb anything and they could disarm Iran for free. Those silly Jews

>>63871866
>why is it my problem to pay for a kike war?
Because the kikes can't afford to pay for it forever and we (western tax payers) will profit significantly from Iranian regime change and profit somewhat by permanent Iranian non-nuclear status.

>>63871925
>Man if only the Israelis hadn’t killed the guy who was negotiating with the US to get rid of their nuclear program
Is it possible they failed to accurately gauge his sincerity?

>>63865696
>The B2 program costed $200B+
You can always instantly tell the poster is a Pajeet when he writes "costed" instead of "cost". Just like they are unable to form a grammatically correct question sentence. It always comes out like "Why USA spend so much money on their airforce?"

>>63871588
Powdered uranium that is 99% U-238

>>63871931
>we (western tax payers) will profit
significantly from Iranian regime change
ROFL
>we
You’re Jewish

>>63871690
Assad fell also because Russia was tied up in Ukraine, though. Hezbollah fighters being castrated by their pagers did help, but Hezbollah couldn't provide air strikes even at its peak. Russia could, but they had no ability to do that while focused on Ukraine.

Could this fix the middle eastern problem

>>63872188
>You’re Jewish
No, Iran's shit-stirring just hits way beyond Israel.
They hack and manipulate and propagandise all through the western world, they're a plague.

>>63872247
>They hack and manipulate and propagandise all through the western world
Rofl

>>63872230
>Could this fix the middle eastern problem
Fix isn't the word I'd use but if you think that after thirteen nukes, they're not going to drop two more just to make this possible, you're out of your fucking mind.

>>63872247
>>63872270
why are you making it so complicated? its ok to bomb Iran because they want to get involved in our war by joining forces with Russia

no other reason needed to wipe them from being a strategic player permanently

>>63869853
They have swatted at least one but possibly two drones. A poor showing when your skies are full of JDAM carrying strike fighters.

>>63872310
>why are you making it so complicated?
There can be multiple reasons why fucking up Iran is a great thing for the west, don't get hung up yourself on why your reason is better than someone else's reason.
Especially when you share both reasons.

>>63872273
How about this

>>63872320
no, you're actually overcomplicating it by arguing over something thats irrelevant

>>63865495
Contamination of what, a fucking mountain in the middle of a desert?

>>63865495
>But the contamination
will keep the site unsalvageable

>>63872325
>you're actually overcomplicating it by arguing over something thats irrelevant
So are you.
That's why you don't argue it and just accept that there are multiple non-exclusive motivations.

>>63872340
>will keep the site unsalvageable
That's not how work gangs of political prisoners work.

>>63872321
Not so bad but you need to invert Iran, Tehran is where the cool Persians live.

>>63872310
>its ok to bomb Iran because they want
to get involved in our war by joining
forces with Russia
>Our war
You’ve earned yourself a third ROFL

>>63872321
Leave Alexandia alone, faggot. Cairo is fine but Alexandria is rightful Roman clay.

>>63872369
>Our war
The thing about divide and conquer, is that it requires everyone watching to have no memory of past events.
Chip away at one neighbouring country and suddenly everyone else thinks your wars might eventually become their wars too.
Plus, why let people suffer as victims of your wars?
Why not help people who need it?

These might sound like riddles to you but they make more sense to westerners, it's just a cultural divide, enhanced by functional memory.

>>63872356
>So are you.
no, if I was to accept
>They hack and manipulate and propagandise all through the western world, they're a plague.
as a reason for bombing them the US embassy here would be a smoking crater, I know exactly what all players are doing

>>63871913
have you heard of the ho chi minh trail? Iran falling would be a catastrophe for Afganistan, they'd be overwhelmed by Iranian war refugees and filled with Iranian militants arming up for guerilla war back home. They might gamble that supporting Iran is in their interest.

>>63872369
I don't understand this tactic at all

why do you think *you* not understanding something frightens *us*?

are you an actual prey animal?

>>63870147
Why are flight/hours so expensive? Does it count plane’s amortisation?

>>63869862
>they don't have enough AA
Sticking the "export Jihad" service branch in charge of everything might have had some unintended effects on budget priorities.

>>63872423
What a bizarre ESL post

>>63872439
>ESL
thank you for outing yourself as a tourist as well as a retarded propagandist who cannot even successfully fool people into thinking he supports the other side

>>63870591
Tacitus

>>63870013
But Israel isn't attacking Iran. The bombs are being dropped by a group called Judaic Jihad. The group's URL redirects to a gardening website and their mailing address is a PO box rented by a "B. Yahunetan" but I can assure you they are an Iranian dissident movement with no affiliation with the Israeli Air Force whatsoever.

>>63872443
>thank you for outing yourself as a tourist as well as a retarded propagandist who cannot even successfully fool people into thinking he supports the other side
So...schizo ESL? Probably Ukranian. Sure as shit aren't a white westerner either from Europe or the US talking about what's in the actual interest of these peoples

>>63872547
you don't have IQ points for this retard, your operation is an absolute failure, you have *never* convinced a single person you support iran or russia, all you do is make it clear *you* cannot tell your ass from a hole in the ground

>>63870672
Iran's one of the most earthquake prone regions in the world since it sits in between the India, Arabian, and Eurasian plates. Going off wikipedia, over the last ten years they've averaged a magnitude 4 or greater quake once every 4.5 months.

>>63870846
There's not that many extremely deeply-buried/extremely hardened sites out there, most of them belong to other nuclear powers and are somehow connected with their nuclear deterrent, and most of the scenarios where we'd need to destroy multiple ones on short notice would likely involve the use (or serious risk of use) of nuclear weapons by the enemy anyway at which point we should probably just bite the bullet and go nuclear ourselves.
If you need to blow up Saddam's personal bunker, you can use a pair of MOPs. If you need to take out five air defense command nodes, you can use twenty MOPs. If you need to take out 50 ICBMs in hardened silos, either break out the B61-11s or don't bother trying.

>>63872422
>have you heard of the ho chi minh trail?
Sure and it got bombed a lot too but you're not moving Dongfeng missiles and JY-14 air defence radars on mules over a trail that runs through Afghanistan.
Iran is running out of missile stocks and will soon be depleted and their air defences are being buried or burned across their country.
Any attempt to restock that will be visible from orbit.

>>63872422
>Iran falling would be a catastrophe for Afganistan, they'd be overwhelmed by Iranian war refugees and filled with Iranian militants arming up for guerilla war back home
The Taliban can deal with militants just fine, neither Taliban nor warlords nor the people stuck in the middle care about Iranian militants.
They don't care about Iran turning western, it's nbd to them.

>>63872433
>Why are flight/hours so expensive? Does it count plane’s amortisation?
I don't think it includes the airframe amortisation (could be wrong) but I think it definitely does include the engine amortisation.
And the maintenance hours of course.

>>63865587
Dumbest post of the thread award

>>63865329 (OP)
I remember seeing a post that shows /k/ is one of the lowest iq boards and this thread proves it.
Reminder that these are the type of people who post here. Don't waste your time with them.

>>63872554
ROFL

>>63872754
the shills truly have childlike magical thinking
>if I pretend not to understand the argument, they think I am russian!

>>63872742
I stand with Israel.

>>63872789
Are you talking about me? I've never pretended to be Russian or Iranian nor do I want people to think that you fucking cretinous ESL

>>63872805
I am talking about the shills who pretend not to understand things so they get called russian shills

those posters are 100% focused on making killing russians socially acceptable, they've never even seen a russian

>>63872247
>They hack and manipulate and propagandise all through the western world, they're a plague
That what Jews do. They are the biggest threat to western civilization. They stole France's nuclear technology and blatantly lied about their nuclear program. They sold American military secrets to China.
Iran is just a camel peddling shithole and would have been similar to Saudi Arabia in terms of political alignment had the Shah been around

>>63872742
Whiter than your average /pol/ meetup that's for sure. I remember seeing one polfag gathering where like 80% of the anons were spics or some flavor of mystery meat brownoid kek

>>63872817
Iranians being willing to attempt to arm Russia is orders of magnitude above manipulation

>>63872822
The one with the Brittany Venti simps?

>>63872840
God damn i'd love to suck on those mulatto mommy milkers

>>63872825
Nothing compared to what Jews have done in the west.
You literally have kikes like Blackrock CEO who championed multiculturalism and wokeness in the US but support an Isreali ethno-state.
Most Jews in Israel are Russians btw.

>>63872849
nah, when you attempt to manipulate me I can just call you lesser

when you attempt to arm my enemies I have to act violently

>>63872849
>support an Isreali ethno-state.
>Most Jews in Israel are Russians btw.
Doesn't seem like much of an ethno-state then.

>>63872853
Trump administration don't consider Russia the enemy. You're an IDF shill

>>63868981
>>63869022
It's reported as being 6 miles deep, so no, it wasnt a nuke test

>>63872917
you're the only IDF poster in the entire thread bro, your operation sucks ass, your culture is inferior for you thinking your tricks work on superior civilizations

>>63870846
>the biggest weakness of the US military is a weapon only they have because they dont have a million of them
Wat? Is our B-2 fleet not being big enough our second biggest weakness?

>>63871690
you realize the jews believe all non jews are subhuman cattle right?

>>63865329 (OP)
just fucking VX the entrances. its not like anyone will actually condemn israel for it.

>>63873007
they're certainly right about prey animal cultures like the iranians and russians..

>If you need to blow up Saddam's personal bunker, you can use a pair of MOPs. If you need to take out five air defense command nodes, you can use twenty MOPs. If you need to take out 50 ICBMs in hardened silos, either break out the B61-11s or don't bother trying.
The B61-11s have just awful totally-shit-tier penetration, like roughly 10% of what GBU-57s have. Everyone got all wrapped in "le nuke" meme, I guess, but this "deliver shockwaves" bullshit does not work for deeply buried hardened targets in the least bit. You try to "just nuke" a facility like Fordow and quickly realize you're wasting multiple nukes just making some craters and shaking apart some poorly designed equipment with a few third-style tunnel collapses. This was a role for a special-purpose ICBM, not a bomber.

>>63872934
uh...
>The Kola Superdeep Borehole SG-3 (Russian: Кoльcкaя cвepхглyбoкaя cквaжинa CГ-3, romanized: Kol'skaya sverkhglubokaya skvazhina SG-3) is the deepest human-made hole on Earth (since 1979), which attained maximum true vertical depth of 12,262 metres (40,230 ft; 7.619 mi) in 1989.

It could have been a nuke test intentionally done so deep that everyone thinks it's just an earthquake, but that does seem sort of unlikely.

>>63872917
>>63872955
Free protip for IDF: just YOLO a bunch of liquid butane down the Fordow entrance tunnel at this point, probably does the job. These bombs are are scams.

>>63873013
>The B61-11s have just awful totally-shit-tier penetration
Because you're not counting on the warhead itself for massive penetration, you're counting on the nuclear explosion for that.

The GBU-57 requires far more penetration capability because it only has conventional explosives inside. It is generally quoted as up to 60 meters of penetration before it explodes.

The B61-11 only penetrates 3-6 meters before exploding.

And it's frankly not worth the development effort to make a deeper penetrating version of the B61.

>>63872853
>when you attempt to arm my enemies I have to act violently
Oh you mean like how Israel sent China the specs for the Aegis system? Or the F-16 avionics by way of giving them the IAI Lavi prototype? Have you ever even met an Israeli? If there's any people who deserve to suffer, it's them.

Israel and Iran are both threats in equal measure. One arms Russia and terrorists, the other commits completely barbaric war crimes and turns Americans against each other while pretending to be our friend and selling our secrets. They've subverted our domestic politics to a massive extend, control of our government is the ultimate aggression and we cannot allow it to continue.

There's a beautiful potential future if we decide to pull all US support from Israel and leave them holding the bag. I'm thrilled at the prospect of Iran no longer being able to supply weapons to Russia. At the same time, watching Tel Aviv get bombed brings a smile to my face, since they completely deserve it for cheering the bombing of Gazan hospitals and schools. They have enough weapons to keep destroying the IRCG for a bit, but if we cut off the supply they will have to grovel at our feet-- which is where they should be. It's long overdue to bring Israel to heel and remind them who's supposed to be in charge.

It's in America's best interest to remain an neutral party. Russia gets fucked, China gets fucked, and backstabbing Israel gets fucked. Do nothing. Let them all reap what they have sown.

>>63873057
Iran needs to be wiped out right now, they're *arming our enemies right now*

Israel can be dealt with later, you can deal with their manipulation attempts buy calling them inferior cretins

cretin

>>63873060
Israel has strong ties with Russia. And large number of them view Russia favourably because they're from Russia
In fact, right now Israel and Russia are on the phone, trying to mediate the Iran conflict

>>63873038
>Because you're not counting on the warhead itself for massive penetration, you're counting on the nuclear explosion for that.

Uh...
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sedan_(nuclear_test
>The explosive device was lowered into a shaft drilled into the desert alluvium 194 m (636 ft) deep.
>Yield 104 kt
>The resulting crater is 100 m (330 ft) deep with a diameter of about 390 m (1,280 ft).
That's what I call some penetration. Compare...
>The first Ivy shot, codenamed Mike, was the first successful full-scale test of a multi-megaton thermonuclear weapon ("hydrogen bomb") using the Teller-Ulam design. . The bomb was detonated on November 1, 1952, on Elugelab Island yielding 10.4 megatons, almost 500 times the yield of the bomb dropped on Nagasaki, resulting in the total vaporization of the island.
>The detonation produced a crater 1.9 km (6,200 ft) in diameter and 50 m (160 ft) deep where Elugelab had once been
CAN YOU FUCKING BELIEVE THE LARGEST U.S. NUKE TEST EVER HAD WORSE FUCKING PENETRATION THAN A GBU-57!?

I'm telling you, DBHTs are SPECIAL SHIT. These bomb designers are also just some foam helmet scammers ripping off Uncle Sam.

>>63873013
>The Kola Superdeep Borehole SG-3
The Kola Borehole is an historic project that took over a decade and had numerous technical problems that halted it repeatedly as well as requiring all sorts of innovative technology to perform.
Nobody is digging one of these surreptitiously.

>>63873132
Uh...
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castle_Bravo
>The explosion left a crater 6,500 feet (2,000 m) in diameter and 250 feet (76 m) in depth.
Little better than a GBU-57 LOL.

>>63873132
>DBHTs
I'm not familiar with this acronym.
Double Bomb Height Test?

>>63873140
>Nobody is digging one of these surreptitiously.
...without figuring newer technologies like flame-jet drilling, such as Earthgrid is doing?

>>63873156
Deeply buried hardened targets. There is a whole body of military literature about them, and a lot of people point out how generally shitty existing "solutions" are.

>>63873132
>>63873144
because the primary point is to use ground shock from the nuke to collapse the bunker.

At least learn how these weapons are supposed to be used before acting like you've found some GLARING flaw.


B61-11 can supposedly destroy a hardened bunker at depths beyond 500 feet.

>>63869942
I would watch this movie.

>>63873174
>B61-11 can supposedly destroy a hardened bunker at depths beyond 500 feet.
It depends tremendously on local geology. The mountain Fordow is under looks like sandstone with a lot of iron staining, so hard but not the hardest. The Iranians have been publishing stuff on steel fiber reinforced concrete for decades though, so expect a very hardened structure. Have any tests been performed on bunkers that deep?

>>63873254
>Have any tests been performed on bunkers that deep?
The US hasn't done any physical nuke tests in decades, as you're well aware (or at least SHOULD be well aware).

Everything these days is simulated.

>>63873172
>Deeply buried hardened targets
I see, thanks.
There is one possible solution though.

>>63873216
>I would watch this movie.
It's clearly an Ace Combat DLC.

>>63873327
>Ace Combat
I feel old
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nnyxROwdI8

>>63873306
I think you can safely assume most posters in this thread have no idea how any of this shit works. We do t know how nukes are used. We do t understand the logistics of carrying out a ground or air campaign. We do t understand how difficult it would be to raid a hardened facility in a hostile nation where your raiders have to be delivered and supplied by air. We don't know how these bunker busters work. If you do know what you are talking about about, please go elsewhere. You won't find a positive exchange of ideas here. Just posturing and schizos.

>>63873362
>I think you can safely assume most posters in this thread have no idea how any of this shit works.
When the largest surface nuclear tests excavate as deep as the best conventional bunker busters, I think you can categorically say ain't nobody got any real good ideas how to deal with DBHTs.

>>63873443
>the super computer simulations are lies actually
oh okay

>>63873447
inb4 Iran signs a treaty, slurpies all the UF6 out of Fordow and has it running again by next year.

>>63871562
>And guess what China and Russia/NK are gonna do?
BRICS isn't third world NATO

>>63873132
>Hurr a crater 160ft deep means the bomb didn't have any effects beyond 161ft
Try thinking before you start typing in all caps.

>>63873524
nuclear spalling sounds exotic

>>63873144
Anon, if you set off a bomb 100ft below ground it doesn't produce a 100ft deep crater. It's an explosion, not a teleporter.

>>63873562
Problem is, B61-11 can muster all of like 20 feet.

>>63873570
drop the nuke in crater made by multiple bunker busters

>>63873586
this is indeed an infinitely smarter strategy here than "just drop a nuke" considering this isn't some 50s boomer concrete any "bunker simulations" are probably based on

>>63873570
I was talking about the MOP. Just because it can reach a certain depth before detonating doesn't mean it will produce a crater that deep, so your comparisons to the Sedan or Castle Bravo tests aren't relevant.

>>63873601
Conversely, just because a nuke delivers a "shockwave" underground doesn't mean it'll be widespread destruction far below the crater; these devices make maybe 6.0 magnitude earthquakes and lots of shitty structures survive those.

>>63874004
A shitty structure surviving a large shake isn't a good comparison. It's more like spalling, the solid material transmits the shock but once it reaches the opposite side it bounces a tensile pulse. If the whole thing was filled solid nothing would happen, but because there's a tunnel the concrete is forced into bearing tensile stress. If enough of the concrete flakes off the roof it loses its strength and caves in.
Point being, shit doesn't work via shaking the ground until it collapses. It *hopefully* transmits forces through the solid material until it reaches a void and forces the concrete into tension rather than compression.

>>63874282
Fiber-reinforced concretes are by far the hardest to spall, though, so this is an awful target to optimize that effect if that facility lines up with what they've published on that topic.

>>63874314
Presumably why they went in for that research. They've got a lot of interest in bomb-proofing bunkers.

>>63874326
>https://ijcsm.springeropen.com/articles/10.1186/s40069-021-00485-6
>Publishers from Department of Civil Engineering, Faculty of Engineering, Pars University, Tehran, Iran and Department of Civil Engineering, Imam Khomeini International University, Qazvin, Iran
>The inclusion of steel fibers in concrete is one of the measures to retrieve the loss of tensile strength.
>The results indicate that an increase of compressive strength from 20 to 84 improves the tensile strength by 169.4%, and the incorporation of 0.25 and 0.5% of steel fibers can improve the tensile strength of normal concrete by 58.48 and 80.29% on average at the tested temperatures, respectively.
I saw some subsequently scrubbed analysis claiming they have up to 50,000psi compressive strength concrete-fiber mixtures.

>>63865587
The US doesn't have a say, only God's chose people can decide for you

>https://apnews.com/article/israel-iran-war-nuclear-talks-geneva-news-06-21-2025-a7b0cdaba28b5817467ccf712d214579
>https://www.aljazeera.com/news/liveblog/2025/6/22/live-us-joins-israels-attacks-on-iran-bombs-three-nuclear-sites
>Fordow status: BTFO?

This is definitely a historic moment for anti-DBHT warfare. I'm itching to see some after picture of what the hell exactly happened, and a little skeptical on the exact extent of BTFO here.

>>63871931
woulndt a better use of our money be from destroying the mexican cartels on our border? we would profit from not having 100,000 young mostly white americans die from opiods every year

We have an initial damage assessment independent of Trump's bigly gaslighting

>https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/international/us/irans-nuclear-infrastructure-not-defeated-after-the-us-bombings-new-data-reveals-iran-vows-retaliation/articleshow/122000685.cms?from=mdr

>tl;dr lots of surface shit got BTFO'd, looks like centrifuge halls suffered only partial damage at Natanz and still unknown at Fordow

>>63876364
>india times
>aljazeerra
No. They literally wouldn't know shit.

>>63876500
Imagine if Trump came out and said...

>We collapsed 17 feet of entrance tunnel, burst 3 centrifuges, release a few dozen liters of UF6 gas! It only cost the taxpayers $279 million! It was was so bigly, so firery, more firery than Guy Fieri so bombly, spectarular explodings Saar, such beautiful, very DOGE, wow!

Seriously though, what the fuck really happened? Are all the centrifuges "obliterated," or does Iran need a few bulldozers and electricians to get it all running again?

>>63876547
Centrifuges are super resilient and not delicate. Just dust them off and they're good as new.