Thread 63871591

APOLOGIZE

>>63871591 (OP)
Kino

>>63871591 (OP)
You can see when the missiles go from boost to terminal guidance, the first might've been retargeted, but the second clearly shows a change in guidance law

that's not iron dome

that's not-patriot

>>63871591 (OP)
that's probably Arrow or Stunner or whatever the fuck they call it

what a time to be alive though to see this

>man makes a missile
>man makes a missile that hits missiles
When are we going to see integrated point-defense micro missiles to hit the missile-hitting missile

>>63871591 (OP)
They hit it 3 times too, you can see debris from the first hit before the second cluster. Wow. Making sure. MAD is dead LOL, say goodbye to those assurances hippy negotiators.

>>63871591 (OP)
impressive

From 2011 to 2021, the United States contributed a total of US$1.6 billion to the Iron Dome defense system, with another US$1 billion approved by the US Congress in 2022.

Israel's gonna need more soon.

>>63871767
>From 2011 to 2021, the United States contributed a total of US$1.6 billion
that's like ten hours of social security expenditure
cheap

>>63871740
the first hit on telaviv happened right at the first day of the missile chimpout. if that had been a nuke there wouldnt have been much air defense left in the city. against nukes, missile defense is pure cope.

>>63871610
Stunner is the missile on David's Sling (probably sounds better in Hebrew) and I bet it's one of those

Ballistic missiles always have a big advantage in speed.

>>63871602
>that's not-patriot
What's 'not-Patriot' something German or South Korean?

Here's the promo, hits ballistic missiles at lower altitudes:
https://youtu.be/gXUhkL42bEk

Arrow is for higher up stuff.

>>63871938
>against nukes, missile defense is pure cope.
Not for the reason you think. You only need to get close enough to initiate the air burst. It'll detonate before there's time to engage the middle.

It doesn't matter though because Iran will never ever have nukes or nuke Israel and they're coping.

>muh mrbm
The RV speed is ~1.2-1.5 km/s (estimated using that video with that stupid zoom), not that impressive and those missiles have a shitty range against something that fast.

>>63871591 (OP)
>censor all the failures
>pass a national law to ban posting aftermath
>show a few successes
>buy our product, goy!
How Jewish.

>>63871961
>air burst
happens a few hundred meters above ground, so you need to get past air defense.

>>63871956
Arrow 2, which is just Patriot made for Israel by the US.

>>63871970
it would have been one of the purely ballistic irbms that iran has a heap of. they're not too hard to intercept (though they still get through as 100% pk doesn't exist).

>>63871988
>trust me habibi
>no you may not see the proof

>>63871618
then missile-hitting missile also will have those micro missiles and then they just dog fight

>>63871998
>be Israel
>want missile system
>ask US to make one for you
>want specs to be a little different to suit your needs
that's how Arrow came to be
Its capabilities (Arrow 2) are similar to PAC-2.

>>63871979
The blast causes the most damage at a certain altitude, which for smaller bombs would be 500m, obviously higher for larger ones. But that's purely to optimize the damage, it's not a physical limitation. If you're dealing with heavy air defences at low level, you could just detonate higher. That's what anon is trying to say, a large enough blast at 5km altitude would still destroy any soft target on the ground, it just wouldn't do as much damage nor have the best blast radius. In fact, that would definitely kill air defences that aren't in fortified structures, allowing for a follow up strike.

>>63872043
even if that's true, they're quite different missiles, retard
>Its capabilities (Arrow 2) are similar to PAC-2
wow you're so knowledgeable anon

>>63871973
How many hits, then? Can (you) show them, habibi?

>>63871926
>that's like ten hours of social security expenditure
>For 69milllion peoples elderly care
Not cheap at all, what crack are you smoking that's at least 30 million peoples wages for a day that's a 5th of the countries working people in (low income) wages

>>63872127
>that's a 5th of the countries working people in (low income) wages
yeah
all ten years' worth of US expenditure is literally cheaper than if the nation paused for 1 hour to send thoughts and prayers instead
heck, American taxpayers definitely wasted more time reading and chatting about Iron Dome than the government spent on it

For the retards:
Arrow 3: exo-atmospheric intercepts of ballistic missiles.
Arrow 2: long-range intercepts of ballistic missiles in the terminal phase
David sling: medium-range intercepts of tactical ballistic missiles
Iron Dome: localized protection against rockets, drones and mortars.

>>63872056
This is common knowledge. Israel went with essentially an ugraded Pac-2 with a booster for longer ranfe incercepts, but still relying on proximity fuse. The U.S. developed Pac-3 with shorter range but greater capacity and a kinetic kill vehicle.

>>63871591 (OP)
we always knew that it's just not that effective at it since the interceptors are slow. the radius they protect is much smaller.

>>63872027
pure kino

The smart move by Iran would be to fire their absolute shittiest missiles first to burn through the Israeli interceptors. Not sure what Israel calls it but this looks like a shoot shoot look shoot doctrine on their end, so at minimum they burn two interceptors for every inbound warhead. Of course we don't really know what the stockpile is on either side but this feels like an attrition game.

t. Used to be on a BMD ship, in the olden days

Maybe a dumb question. But why not make a warhead that just shits out HEAT bomblets by the hundreds? Ideally with a fair bunch of duds to make EOD operations costly as hell?
Literally blanket entire cities with 'touch it and it explodes' mines.

>>63871591 (OP)
We should just let Israel and Iran keep doing this forever. Israel need to promise to stop bombing Iran though. Much more fun.

>>63872597
That's just a cluster munition. If you mean dispersing them over a period of time, like a bombing run, they're simply going to be intercepted before significant damage can occur. And remember, most of the intercepts are happening over either empty desert or palestinian homes

>>63872608
I know cluster bombs and shit exist, but why not a cluster MRBM?
Make it so the warhead can detect interceptors and pre-detonate when about to be intercepted.
Or just figure out the average height of intercept and pre-detonate it before that.

>>63871767
>>63871926
>>63872151
That's complete bullshit. The US gives Israel $500 million per year for missile defense. That's not part of the $3.3 billion per year we also give them, or the literal billions (17+) in "emergency" funds Congress loves to give them to resupply interceptors.

>>63872618
This is not going to be effective against the target but if it was high enough and the warheads had a huge RCS it would be bad for the interceptors. They can't really tell how much payload is on a warhead, only how much of a radar return they are getting. So yeah, a high altitude ballistic cluster with a fairy tight choke could cause the enemy to overcommit on interceptors, even if it only did light damage.

>>63872636
I am thinking less about doing direct damage, and more-so just turning entire cities into 'accidentally bump into something and explode' terrifying minefields of UXO nonsense.

>>63871988
Arrow 2 is nothing like PATRIOT. Its lineage is Sprint>HEDI>Advanced Technology Interceptor (ATI). Which for the US got rolled into THAAD, and for Israel Arrow 2. Arrow 2 comes form the original tech demonstrator Arrow system, that Israel and the US developed during the SDIO (starwars) program of the late 80s early 90s.

>>63872625
We give them over 4 billion
they are supposed to spend it on military shit from us
but they only spend a little bit and take the rest and invest it in bonds to earn profit off the interest lol
jews

>>63872653
HEDI launch

>>63872575
Israel uses a Shoot, look, shoot, shoot, at least for their bigger missiles. However they can also redirect the trailing missiles to another target.

The issue for Iran is their shitty missiles can't reach Israel. They have to rely on bigger, more cumbersome missiles which are expensive and easily targeted on the ground.

>>63872653
My understanding is their Arrow 3 is a residual of programs that eventually resulted in GBI in the US, Arrow 2 is roughly of the same lineage as THAAD, and the tech in David's Sling is either borrowed from or contributed to PAC-3.

Basically it's all U.S. tech adopted to Israeli needs.

>>63872644
Yeah I see what you mean. Actually though those UXO and clusters would maybe be pretty effective if dispersed over an airfield.
>>63872671
I could believe that overall, especially as they exhaust their stockpiles. The video looks like a shoot shoot look shoot though.

>>63872688
They may use that for shorter missiles that can only intercept on terminal to frontload the chance of intercept.

>>63872618
Cluster warheads already exist and Iran has used them on Isreal. Can't find the pic of the submunition, but here's one impact of one supposedly.

https://x.com/OsintUpdates/status/1936092557265572267

>>63872644
The clusters would be dispersed over a comically wide area. They'd be useless.

>>63872659
>they are supposed to spend it on military shit from us
Up until this year, they were allowed to use up to 25% of the US funds to purchase domestic military equipment. Starting in 2025, they have to use 100% of it on "US" produced military equipment. Why do you think, all of a sudden, all the Israeli defense companies are building production facilities in the US and partnering with US companies to co-produce and develop systems?
>but they only spend a little bit and take the rest and invest it in bonds to earn profit off the interest lol
No, they spend 75%+ on US military gear. Where are you getting your info from?
>>63872668
HEDI KKV - which is very similar to Arrow, and THAAD KKVs. Though, HEDI used a cryogenically cooled IR seeker window made of sapphire. Arrow and THAAD use a non-cooled IR seeker window made from sapphire that are almost identical in shape, size, thickness and overall design.

>>63872702
Warhead

https://x.com/imp_navigator/status/1664893490386333696

>>63872720
Are those water bottles cheap replacements for the submunitions in the demonstrator or were they inspired by them when they designed them?

>>63871618
>When are we going to see integrated point-defense micro missiles to hit the missile-hitting missile
There are already missiles with decoys, Iskander for example.

>>63872723
I guess the smaller ones just end up looking like that. This one is a photo of the larger submunitions. Google translated from hebrew.

>>63872618
>I know cluster bombs and shit exist, but why not a cluster MRBM?
That would be really crazy if someone made one of those. Just a really out there concept that no one has tried before.

>>63872684
>My understanding is their Arrow 3 is a residual of programs that eventually resulted in GBI in the US
Somewhat, though Arrow 3 is nowhere near as capable as GBI
>Arrow 2 is roughly of the same lineage as THAAD,
Pretty much
>and the tech in David's Sling is either borrowed from or contributed to PAC-3.
PAC-3 comes from the Flexible Light weight Agile Experiment (FLAGE) and Extended Range Interceptor (ERINT) programs of the 80s, so, I highly doubt David's Sling contributed to PAC-3 (ERINT).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXrGXf9sx0Y
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5EXG1UAi2Aw
>>63872719
Seeker Window designs

>>63872757
AIT KKV design proposals

>>63872762
AIT KKV wind tunnel testing

>>63871998
>the burden of infinite proof is on whoever im arguing with

>>63872755
Very interesting, thanks, fren!

>>63872765
THAAD seeker window wind tunnel testing

>>63872767
Well, that anon is an idiot, and doesn't know what he's talking about. Arrow 2 and PAC-3 are completely different missiles, and share no design history. THAAD, on the other hand, is very closely related to Arrow 2.

>>63871591 (OP)
i'm not a gun guy or anything, i saw the thread on the home page and clicked, can you explain what is an mrbm? what makes this webm special?

>>63872794
Medium
Range
Ballistic
Missile

Typically very difficult to intercept for traditional AD.

naw man youre shakin it all wrong

>>63871591 (OP)
So was that 3 missiles to get one hit? Or was the first one aimed at another target?
Typically interceptors are launched in pairs.

>>63871596 (me)
Taking a closer look now, it looks to me like it's using some kind of trajectory shaping guidance with a terminal angle constraint, both missiles sought to intercept the missile with their velocity vector aligned with the incoming missile's velocity vector, probably to maximize damage.

>>63873001
First seems to be aimed at a different target. Missile 2 might've been retargeted.

>>63871591 (OP)
Makes it pretty clear why we should help Israel with Iran. Have our soldier do the groundwork while they defend.

>>63872719
>No, they spend 75%+ on US military gear. Where are you getting your info from?
From the famous, independent, free-thinking impartial sources of /pol/, twitter, facebook, reddit, youtube, rumble etc

>>63872625
I'm just characterising the meaning of 1.6 billion dollars, okay?
>the literal billions (17+) in "emergency" funds Congress loves to give them to resupply interceptors
a resupply they wouldn't need if they weren't being rocketed, one notes

>>63872659
>they only spend a little bit and take the rest and invest it in bonds to earn profit off the interest lol
>jews
gr8 b8 m8 8/8

>>63872522
>This is common knowledge
I'd like to know more
give me a source

>>63872618
M270 MLRS was essentially a cluster SRBM

>>63872767
the prima facie case is that both missiles are from different countries, were designed and procured at different times, and have quite different body dimensions
now, the burden of proof on one side is fulfilled to a certain degree. let's see the case for the other side.

>>63871979
75th Ranger Regiment Veteran here (Served in MW2), I can confirm that an air burst nuke will create an EMP that takes out all electronics on half the globe.

>>63872107
Oh I'm sure those hits on hospitals, apartment blocks, and daycares are very good PR for Iranian accuracy and discretion.

>>63871591 (OP)
That's the coolest thing I ever see.
God, why doesn't US have these?
>money
Just fire a couple or more every year or something, I'm sure people will pay for it.
Even better, slap 100% rate.