Now every manufacturer is going “oh fuck how didn’t we think of that” after the aimpoint acro dropped in like 2021 and pumping these things out like they should’ve been doing in the first place. I have a Holosun EPS for my CZ P10s (not pictured here some random shit I found on Google), and it still just baffles me how it took this long. I can’t think of a single situation where I wouldn’t want a closed emitter dot.

>>63887070 (OP)
when the ACRO first dropped, morons lost their collective minds over its size (pic rel) and that reaction was likely anticipated by industry players for well over a decade while the RMR reigned supreme
its been a few years now and most people have figured out that an enclosed emitter is superior in almost every respect for an insignificant increase in weight and profile

>>63887070 (OP)
>>63887090
I just bought an SRO for my P01, what benefits does the ACRO have over that or the rmr?

>>63887101
you don't get lint and dirt and dust that you need to dig out of it every few days or weeks. When you get rain or moisture on the lens your wiping it off vs digging it out.

I don't think the ACRO does anything significantly better than any other closed emitted dot does but I think closed emitter dots are an overall upgrade over open emitter ones

The benefit of closed emitter is the rain won't block your led light. This matters more on a rifle where you're outside a lot and less for a bedside pistol. For ccw or police carry you can make your own choices about optics, irons or laser.

>>63887090
>>63887113
What baffles me even further is that the RMR was designed as a piggyback optic for the ACOG to score military contracts. Meaning that trijicon
>designed a open emitter red dot
>for military sales
>while we were fighting in a desert
>and often train in swamps

I seriously have no clue how/why the RMR went anywhere. It sucks at what it’s designed for and is pretty mid by comparing even the pistol dots of its day and especially today.

>>63887129
because it was the first pistol red dot to actually be "good"

>>63887246
I guess compared to your other options in the early to mid 2010’s the RMR wasn’t half bad, mostly because your choices were
>rmr
>deltapoint
>or get fucked

I feel like as a whole the market for pistol dots lagged severely until really just a couple years ago. It’s only in the past <5 years or so I’ve seen pistol dots become a lot more common place. It took years for slide cuts to even become commonplace.

>>63887070 (OP)
>aimpoint acro dropped in like 2021
erm, ackshually, the P1 released in 2018

>>63887458
Technically yes but nobody bought them until the p2

no one seemed to give a shit until like two years ago

>>63887306
I'm old enough that I remember when red dots for rifles were a new thing to the regular military, and I heard people say the most retarded shit about them back then. When pistol dots started becoming a thing I heard people saying the same thing.
>What if your dot breaks and then ya don't know how to use yer irons?
>Irons is just as good so don't put clutter on your gun
>If you "need" a red dot you shouldn't be trusted with a gun
>Red dots are for ultra close range only so what if you need to shoot far away huh huh?
>BATTERIES [incoherent screeching]

I chalk it up a to a combination of machismo and contrarianism

Acro P2 is king. I have 3 and prefer shooting in bad weather so I have the range to myself. My RMRs have dot problems in the rain

>>63887514
Red dots on pistols are still a meme. Nobody requires the extra precision at self defense ranges. It's just extra bulk.

>>63887553
Probably true but I have aimpoint tastes and holosun budgets my friend. For me it’s EPS’s and 509T’s till morale improves

>>63887070 (OP)
tacticool garbage, the true mark of any larperator

>>63887514
Very true as well. Any shift in the status quo is, generally speaking, gonna bring out the inner fudd in all of us.

>>63887655
Do you NEED them? No, people have been shooting irons on pistols for centuries. I still think irons are overlooked by a lot of people. But the point of a pistol dot that I don’t feel a lot of people understand is that isn’t to be more precise, when used properly you’re basically point shooting with a dot in space; if you focus too hard like you were shooting irons you’re just gonna see yourself shaking and confuse yourself. It’s basically point —> see dot —> shoot.

>>63887306
>I guess compared to your other options in the early to mid 2010’s the RMR wasn’t half bad, mostly because your choices were
>>rmr
>>deltapoint
>>or get fucked
German made Doctors were available for more than a decade before that

>>63887674
See >>63887680

>>63887680
red dots ARE more precise tho, you can actually zero them.

>>63887681
Maybe I’m just a hater but I consider basically all of these interchangeable. Yes obviously there was other ones on the market but the RMR and Deltapoint definitely had a strangle on the market until budget brands like PA and Holosun made their debut

>>63887695
The Doctor was available a literal decade before the RMR or Deltapoint was. I was rocking one on a airshit glock 18c back in like 2002. rmrs and deltapoints are for people late to the game.

>>63887664
I have an eps carry on my glock 48. It's pretty sweet

>>63887691
They have the ability to be more precise yes, but for their true advantages at self defense distances it’s going to be speed of acquiring a sight picture and way faster follow ups.

I don’t care if you’re 90’s Jerry Miculek, if you put a red dot on your handgun, it will be faster. Especially considering how short the site radius is on most handguns and how little your sight alignment being off can wildly throw your shot off at even short distances.

>>63887709
grandpa was running a pistol dot before I was even born

>>63887070 (OP)
Talk to me when they finally correct the "closed-emitter optics fogging up long-term" issue. To me that's a dealbreaker and I've seen examples of it happening with every single closed emitter pistol dot that's been on the market long enough for real data.
Until then the RMR Type 2 is the most proven pistol optic on the market.
>muh precip muh mud
There's snow where I live 6 months out of the year, invest in a holster that keeps shit out of your dot and it's a non-issue. And even then, needing to wipe rain off an optic is better than moisture getting trapped inside of a closed emitter where you can't do anything about it.

Fact of the matter is that the forces enacting themselves on a reciprocating pistol slide are no joke, and turns out the level of miniaturization needed to mount a red dot on a pistol plus the ruggedization needed to have those miniturized electronics withstand those forces plus having that enclosure stay completely sealed and purged long term is actually a pretty tough problem to solve. We'll see if the coming generation of eclosed dots pulled it off, because again the current and last gen did an ok job but even the good ones fail eventually. Whereas my RMRs just keep running and running, and that's what's more important to me.
Closed emitters are superior to open on paper, I agree. But it's just not a solved technology in this specific application.

>>63887509
it really doesn't matter, it's a luxury. just like barrel length, grip texture, slide serrations, magazine capacity, ergonomics

reliability and parts availability are the only things that matter

>>63887758
Actually really good points, I’ve never personally heard of that issue with closed emitters but i definitely believe it. I’m also tracking that making any kind of optic withstand the abuse of a pistol slide is not an easy undertaking. My philosophy is coming from that of conceal carry because that’s the only time I’m actually carrying a pistol. I’m active duty military, we almost never get handguns anyway (I’m nobody important just a conventional force rock eater), nor a cop, so my belief is that of “if I can attain that much more reliability in split second situations why wouldn’t I?”

>>63887655
Pretty sure the appeal is speed, not precision, retard.

>>63888039
>my belief is that of “if I can attain that much more reliability in split second situations why wouldn’t I?”
Well again it depends on what you mean by "reliability":
An RMR Type 2 has a record for ruggedness that no other pistol dot on the market can touch, though plenty of them are tough ENOUGH even if not as tough as an RMR. The amount of abuse they can take is legitimately astounding.
For me, the above plus the fact that I can solve any moisture or debris (and again in my experience carrying open emitter dots both AIWB and in properly-designed holsters it's a non-issue) with a quick wipe translates to being more reliable than one day drawing that gun with an ACRO or EPS or whatever to defend my life and finding it's fogged up internally, a problem with no expedient field solution.
Conversely, right up until it does that (and it may never) that ACRO or EPS or whatever never has to worry about water or debris getting between the emitter and the glass.

For me, I'll take the first conception of "reliability" over the second. I have no doubt that eventually closed-emitter dots will catch up and solve the issue. The new crop of dots currently being released may even have already done it but we're not gonna know until they're out in the wild for a while. Until we DO know, I'm gonna hang onto my RMRs lol.

>>63888119
>Pretty sure the appeal is speed, not precision, retard.
NTA but it's both, retard. Dots are faster AND more precise. There is literally no downside to pistol dots other than the cost (and I strongly suspect the cost is the real reason behind most dotlet cope), they do nothing but add capability.

Caring about a closed vs. open emitter on a pistol optic is like worrying about a but-what-if situation inside of a but-what-if situation inside the statistically rare occurrence of a DGU.

>>63887070 (OP)
Holosun did it before the ACRO.

>>63887758
>>63888146
nta tou were talking to, but you've made me realize something. the rmr emitter is behind a window, what is stopping the emitter window on the rmr from fogging up? is it just easier to seal the smaller window in a way thats very rugged, or is there some sort of different process that could be applied to the glass on closed emitter optics?

>>63890044
Another NTA, the emitter window isn't like a little LED inside a mini lens assembly with air space inside it, it's a discrete component, encapsulated. Unless it delaminates or otherwise physically degrades, there's no way for it to fog up internally. It could get condensate on it if you go from cold environment to warm and humid environment, like any other piece of equipment, but that's it.

>>63887758
Closed emitter optic seals fail from air travel, so gun “influencers” who travel a lot have issues

>>63887070 (OP)
acro is a piece of shit. chink eps is unironically more durable and cheaper

>>63887758
>There's snow where I live 6 months out of the year,
Doesn’t mean shit when you dont go outside during an active snow storm. Also snow isnt rain, you can just wipe the shit off. Try being outside in an active rainstorm and see how le based your open emitter is.

>>63887758
I've only ever seen EPS fog up after several thousand ft of elevation change and a week of direct rain exposure. It was on the rear window so it was still usable
I'm just done with open emitters and they live on toys for the most part

>>63887719
>speed of acquiring a sight picture
you only need the front sight for self defense which is plenty fast

Test

Listen up dorks, I've said it before and I'll say it again: 95% of carrying a weapon is the aesthetics and throwing a red dot on a pistol goes in the wrong aesthetic direction and makes you look like a beta wimp. Does it give you an advantage in terms of making your target acquisition and follow up slightly faster? Sure. But is that worth looking like a virgin? I say no.

>>63887090
I made a meme years ago with holosun on it and aimpoint x'd out

>>63887509
It's literally because of Instagram operators

>>63890854
Lotta words to come out as gay, happy pride month!

>>63891146
t. red dot dork

>>63887101
Open emitters require more cleaning and can have issues with multiple tickets and other visual anomalies if rain/snow/whatever clogs the emitter.

SRO is also built for competition so it's not all that durable. My favorite optic but don't drop the thing.

I like mine but I ended up buying that shroud thingy for it (Jaeger works BRO Mount) and now it's heavier than it should be and ugly. I'll probably end up putting it on a range only gun someday.

>>63887496
509t was popular for awhile

>>63887758
>>63888039
>>63888146
I've heard a lot of stuff about ACROs fogging up, though they still seem to be in vogue amongst the hyper tactical crowd. Aimpoint also just essentially upgraded the ACRO with the COA, but it's only available attached to a Glock for the first year.

I have high hopes for the RCR, the COA and primary arms new htx-1. I think the htx-1 is the most promising. Multiple footprint chassis system that sits lower than the rest. Built in the US. I live trijicon but the RCR looks meh and the COA is smaller than it needs to be because they wanted it to fit slimline Glocks . I think the RMRHD or SRO is the best choice right now if you're just EDCing the pistol.

>>63890854
All the trijicon dots look sick, though. COA looks pretty nice, too. Everything else does look pretty gay, especially chinkshit.

I like red dots, i think they are neat, but ehh, they are another thing to carry, another thing to worry.
I took off the dot and the light from my edc hellcat because fuck it, it does make the diffrence. And carring is 99.99% of what are you doing with your gun. And if i ever be jumped on by a big black negro and die because ill be an attosecond too slow with my irons? Well fuck me i guess.
By that min-max logic you could argue that driving anything but a fucking RAM 3500 is asking to be killed in a car crash.

>>63890502
I've trained and competed in plenty of weather, including yes while it was actively snowing AND raining. It's a non-issue, and I've had more need to wipe it out in the snow than the rain on the rare occasion it does happen. And I'll reiterate since you seem to be defensive about it: on paper closed emitter micro dots win but data indicates they aren't a mature tech yet and there are still kinks being worked out. I'll take the devil I know in the meantime.

>>63890677
Obviously an anecdotal datapoint but my buddy's EPS failed after about 6 months on his competition gun and I've seen numerous ACROs (P1 and P2) fail in person.

I'll also say: I hike with my gun, and again I live in a place where inclement weather and big elevation changes are very common. My experience has not been that open emitter dots are unreliable, and I have seen enough evidence that closed-emitter dots are still in the "early adopter" stage of development that I'm pretty comfortable waiting a couple more years before switching over ;^)

>>63890156
>Closed emitter optic seals fail from air travel
Yeah again this indicates the tech isn't there yet man, but I've also seen the seals start to leak from thousands of reciprocations. Also, hate to break this to you but there's a very good chance an eclosed dot made in china or sweden probably takes a few trips on a plane between the factory where it was built and your mailbox.

>>63891650
>I have high hopes for the RCR, the COA and primary arms new htx-1
Yeah I'm hopeful about this next/current crop of enclosed micro dots and am looking forward to what the testing shows. I'll reiterate till the cows come home that outside of this specific type of internet autism the potential cons of RMR-style dots are overblown and mostly theoretical but I definitely think that once all the kinks are finally ironed out on enclosed dots (and again, these new ones might be it but we ain't gonna know until they're out for a while) are the way of the future.

>>63892309
You make some great points. I've held out on enclosed emitter dots for now but the htx-1 has me willing to change that. I typically don't get on the hype train for many products but I'm excited for this one over any of the others. I like that it sits low. Who knows if I'll actually like that as much when I actually hold one though?

Waiting around to buy one is certainly a good call, but I am tempted to think that this wave of new enclosed dots are going to be solid. Trijicon to my knowledge usually delivers, and although you could say the same with aimpoint, I think Glock partnering with them signals high confidence in the product. Maybe they figured out the ACRO issues and are just gonna start over and graduate drop the ACRO. Primary arms built a whole facility for their htx-1, investing tons of cash into the product. We'll see, only time will tell.

I agree with you, open emitters are just fine, but enclosed will become the norm if they do in it right this time.

>>63887734
>anon wasn't born yet in 2002
underage pls g-
>kids born in 2007 are 18 now

>>63892309
Wiping snow doesn’t smear like water does. and if it’s snowing AND raining, it’s not doing either one heavily. If you live somewhere where there’s 6 months of snow, you’ve never experienced a legitimate monsoon tier rain storm, ie every day in the southeast 2pm-6pm may-september.

And all there kinks and issues you mentioned are from altitude and pressure changes.

>>63888160
>He doesn't actually carry a gun
Begone zoomzoom

>>63894776
Carrying a standard dot isn’t that hard

>>63894684
Sure man. I did a comp 2 years ago where I was outside in April Oregon rain for 2 14-hour days straight and didn't have to wipe my RMR off a single time. Temp shifts in Montana winter precip are much more erratic and dramatic.

>the southeast
Oh I didn't realize I was talking to an "East of the Mississippi" subhuman, my bad lmao. That also explains why you don't seem to know what snow is like and why you seem to think a thousand feet of elevation is a lot.

The actual adult answer here is obviously that you and I live in vastly different environments, have different usecases, and different priorities. I'm glad your EPS or RCR or ACRO is working for you. Where I'm at and what I'm doing, the pros of the RMR outweigh the cons of most enclosed dots on the market currently until we get some hard data otherwise.

>>63894684
Sure man. I did a comp 2 years ago where I was outside in April Oregon rain for 2 14-hour days straight and didn't have to wipe my RMR off a single time. Temp shifts in Montana winter precip are much more erratic and dramatic.

>the southeast
Oh I didn't realize I was talking to an "East of the Mississippi" subhuman, my bad lmao. That also explains why you don't seem to know what snow is like and why you seem to think a thousand feet of elevation is a lot.

The actual adult answer here is obviously that you and I live in vastly different environments, have different usecases, and different priorities. I'm glad your EPS or RCR or ACRO is working for you. Where I'm at and what I'm doing, the pros of the RMR outweigh the cons of enclosed dots until we get some hard data otherwise.

>>63895249
>>63895119
Lmao phoneposting on this broken website strikes again fuck me

>>63895119
>>63895249
This reads like someone upset that plastic pistols exist, except for red dots
You've probably never had debris in your open emitter because the fat roll covers it

>>63895326
My fat rolls cover the RMR emitter on my Glock 19 while I'm shooting it?
I'm not gonna get into a "post physique" shitfling here but (You) seem to have lost the plot a bit, anon.

>>63894852

Every time you post this setup I have a kek. It's one of the most autistic carry setups I've ever seen on /k/
>$5,000 worth of nice wilson combat 1911 and mags with some of the ugliest grips I've seen on this board aside from that one dude who gouged up some aluminum with a dremel
>nice trigicon optic
>carried in a bubba'd phlster enigma that has a poorly cut up piece of woodland camo bandana glued on it and sports an Uncle Fudd's leather holster

It just gives me a giggle that a richfag is running around out there carrying more than 99% of /k/'s entire armory value in a rig that looks like it was customized by someone who lives in singlewide and has as many teeth as fingers.

>>63895496
Rude, I was thinking of going back to these cocobolo grips. They aren’t as sharp or grippy

>>63895679
>rude
So? You're rich, buy some good taste instead of bubba-izing and using cerbon fiber looking grips that look like they belong in some puerto rican's 2010 honda civic. You can afford therapy if a poorfag barking at you causes you consternation.

>>63895704
I’m not that rich, and the grips ARE carbon fiber or carbon fiber infused G10

>>63895755
Rich enough to carry a gun that cost almost $4k before you customized it, which you know you aren't getting back if you ever actually have to use it since it'll get "lost" (become part of some officer's collection) in evidence.

>>63895968
I got it for 2.3k used, I carry it because I like it not because I can afford to lose it.

>>63895119
>northwest
Surprised you were able to take the dicks out of your hand long enough to type that response.

>>63895496
I guess the camo tape could be done better but his setup looks fine. The only thing to question is why the hell he hasn't upgraded to an SRO, RCR or RMRHD for an optic...

>>63896079
There is nothing I could bantz back that could be worse than living in the southeastern US.
Anyway I'm assuming that since you've stopped even attempting to engage with my reasoning behind my optic preferences, we're done here?

>>63896338
>The only thing to question is why the hell he hasn't upgraded to an SRO, RCR or RMRHD for an optic...
NTA but the reason I still use an RMR Type 2 over those:
>SRO
Literally not better, not a duty optic.
>RCR
Very compelling but jury's still out on the seal+purge long-term. Probably this will eventually be what I change to.
>RMRHD
I think if you're buying new from zero rn the HD is the clear choice but I think if you already have an RMR on your gun there's not really enough there to justify replacing it.

The RMR is also significantly lower-profile than all three, which I personally like a lot.

>>63894776
I literally have a Ruger RxM with an RM06 on it in my pants right now as I type this.

>>63896338
>>63896815
>RMR HD/SRO
too large, how the gun sits on my body it juts the optic out too much
>RCR
haven't tried it on this gun, but it's fuck huge

>The RMR is also significantly lower-profile than all three, which I personally like a lot.
my dream optic is an RMR with a lower deckheight, like how low the Sig Romeo X optics are. If they did a Romeo X with an RMR pattern I'd use it, there is very little stopping them doing it since it's a side loaded battery so the RMR holes are fine.

>>63896954
The RCR does not need to be this huge. There is no battery in the bottom of the optic, if they didn’t do the stupid capstan screws and used an acro rail and just used an adapter plate it would be lower.

>>63896815
Muh duty optic.

SRO is kino for CCW application. It's not as intrusive as it looks.

I do like the low profile of the RMR but the window is so small.

>>63896966
It's not even that large. It's like the same size but a bit longer...

>>63898594
It’s taller, the deck height is significantly higher where Nighthawk back up irons meant for the RMR are TOO low to use with the RCR

>>63887070 (OP)

>>63898590
>Muh duty optic
One time I watched a dude's SRO send its lens out the front of its housing mid-match. There's a LOT of broken SROs out there if you start looking for them, especially in comparison to RMRs.

With the advent of the RMR HD, which keeps all the stuff people like about the SRO but addresses its durability issues, kind of hard to keep arguing for the SRO in my opinion, whereas the RMR still does some stuff the RCR and HD don't, specifically the lower deck height and smaller profile.
The SRO looks cool as fuck though, I won't argue that. In fact IMO the RMR and SRO are both MUCH better looking optics than the RCR and HD.

>>63887758
>"closed-emitter optics fogging up long-term"
Anon if moisture can find its way into the optic, it can find its way out. This is literally middle school physics. Fucking read a book.

>>63902728
>if your optic allows for moisture ingress that makes it unusable (the entire sales pitch for this style of optic is that it doesn't have this problem), simply put it in a bag of rice overnight and try again tomorrow :^)

>>63903857
>optic can have a seal defect that causes it to fog up a tiny bit over a very long time which can be resolved by either letting the moisture escape or simply replacing the faulty optic
vs
>optic has a fundamental flaw that can cause each and every single one of them to quit working within an instant if a drop of rain falls on it wrong, can't be fixed period
Gee Anon, primer failures exist i guess you have to carry a muzzleloader now.

>>63903994
>optic has a fundamental flaw that can cause each and every single one of them to quit working within an instant if a drop of rain falls on it wrong, can't be fixed period
The fuck are you talking about, retard? The problem in your photo is remediated in less than a second with a single swipe of a gloved thumb vs either putting it into climate controlled environment for hours or days or literally needing to replace it.
Defending ACRO seals popping as field-repairable is such a ludicrous position to take that i have to believe you're pretending to be retarded rn.

>>63887090
Found a copy

>>63904197
>open emitter coper pivots again

>>63890677
Curious what that camo paintjob looks like anon, if you have side-on pics

>>63904197
>The problem in your photo is remediated in less than a second with a single swipe of a gloved thumb
>mr assailant please hold as i spend one second (at best assuming i am very lucky fingerfucking that tiny emitter) out of the average two a self-defense encounter takes to make my optic work pretty please thank you very much
lmao
>putting it into climate controlled environment
Yes anon it's called your body. We have already established that you slept through physics at school, now we uncovered you also slept through bio and never learned your body the optic will be in the immediate vicinity when of when actually carried maintains a stable temperature. Please read a book, i beg you.
>literally needing to replace it
Yes that's how it works, you replace broken things. There's even that thing called a warranty specifically meant for situations like this. Unfortunately all open emitter sights are broken by default and you can't even replace them.
>Defending ACRO seals popping as field-repairable is such a ludicrous position to take that i have to believe you're pretending to be retarded rn.
They don't have to be field repairable, because any moisture build up will be visible long before it becomes an actual problem. Unlike you, people who actually own and carry guns take a look at their optic once in a while, often enough to either remove the moisture or get the optic replaced. There is nothing you can do about your optic getting defeated by a rain drop. Have fun swiping it.

>>63904377
What pivot? If you do happen to get water on the emitter (you probably wont), you wipe it off and it's good to go. I've said that idk 15 times in this thread. If you get moisture inside an acro or eps or whatever, it's fucked.

>>63904589
I dont think you own a gun, much less a gun with a closed-emitter red dot on it. Moreover I don't think you've so much as seen an RMR in person. Keep frantically googling "RMR in rain" photos to post though.

In the scuba world we have a little trick to prevent condensation and droplets on your lenses, it's called SPIT. Just spit on the glass of your open emitter dot routinely and wipe it clean with your thumb. Do this over and over. It's like seasoning a cast iron. After a while it'll repel water.

Closed emitter is euroslop. No americans asked for this. It's primarily for euros who are 10 years behind on electro-optics with tight wallets who want to check every fucking box before they make a large purchase order.

>>63904698
>I dont think you own a gun, much less a gun with a closed-emitter red dot on it. Moreover I don't think you've so much as seen an RMR in person. Keep frantically googling "RMR in rain" photos to post though.
I accept your concession. Don't forget to wipe your tears, we wouldn't want one of them to drop into the emitter.

>>63904788
>pulled this one from a review
>RMR dot isn't even particularly distorted in this one, could easily put A-zone hits on a target at 25yrds. In fact even with the distortion the dot is smaller than the EPS's. And if that EPS's seals eventually fail, it'll be much, much worse than the RMR.
Keep googling, dude. In the meantime here's 3 RMRs I own mounted to 3 guns I actually own and carry and compete with.

>>63904233
>WIDE SCREEN CINEMA
I'll never understand the purpose of red dots on handguns outside of vidya... they are practical, for a second then they aren't

>>63904909
You have never shot a gun with them. Instead of lining up front and rear sights the dot is where the bullet goes (if there is no parallax distortion). It is so much faster, red dot sight shooters have to separated in class from irons in competitive shooting as red dot shooters will clear the same stage 25% faster on average.

>>63904698
Idk my eps has worked fine both times it's fogged up in fucky conditions

>>63887655
Back to bed, gramps

>>63905337
....anon, was the fog on the inside of the lenses or the outside?
If your EPS is fogging internally, you should call up Holosun and have them send you a new EPS, because yours is no longer waterproof

>>63904788
so from what I'm seeing you have to wipe both off for it to be particularly useable.

here's my ACRO. Literally the first ACRO p2 ever posted by someone on /k/ btw, I got the very first batch shipped to people who weren't reviewers. Shooting side by side in constant rain I found no practical difference between it and my friend's RMR, except that the ACRO was much harder to see through with water on the rear lens. Both needed cleaned to really use properly.

>>63904505

>>63887070 (OP)
I always thought red dots were for gay people. I shoot fine with irons at 25 yards on my g21.

>>63905826
> from what I'm seeing you have to wipe both off for it to be particularly useable
I can see a nice round dot just fine on the right. The smear on the left on the other hand forces you to guess just which part of it will be closest to what the dot would have been.
>Shooting side by side in constant rain I found no practical difference between it and my friend's RMR
>my anecdotal sample of n=1 did not include a malfunction, therefore malfunctions don't exist
Anon I don't even know what to tell you. I know counterfactual thinking can be an issue if your IQ isn't triple digit but i want to believe you can do it.

>>63907411
>I shoot fine
Why do you retards keep repeating this? The point isn't whether you can shoot fine with irons or not, the point is that literally all available evidence confirms pretty much anyone will shoot a dot with more accuracy and speed. You want to settle for worse because you feel it's sufficent and are too lazy/poor to get and train with a dot, so be it, but quit being delusional.

>>63887681
all those big open emitters came from comp shooting, everyone knew about them, but didn't fuck with them because they were not rugged

like the other anon said, the rmr was just the first to arrive on scene from a reputable name, even if it is a lame product for it's case use

>>63907777
>some picture that isn't focused properly
That's great but you don't have an open red dot and a closed red dot. I'm not going off of some picture.

Fuck do you even own guns holy shit.

>>63901124
You're right, I just like the way the SRO looks. I probably should have gotten the HD. I did put the shroud on it just in case but I'll probably take it off. Adds bulk and weight.

>>63908757
>Fuck do you even own guns holy shit
You can tell he's at best never done serious pistol shooting with an optic of any kind because he's acting like even if that picture was an accurate portrayal of reality instead of just focused on two different planes, the RMR smear on the left wouldn't amount to more than roughly an inch of poa/poi variance at realistic self defense distances, if that.
Another big tell is the fact that he literally just image searched "RMR in rain" and cherrypicked photos he thinks prove his point, pic related lol. His arguments are clearly not based on experience and yeah I'd be surprised if he owns a gun, much less has any hands-on time with pistol optics at all, regardless of their housing design.

Your experience regarding the practical difference between an RMR and an ACRO in the rain are identical to my own.

>>63908757
>I'm not going off of some picture.
>I will just disregard tangible evidence because it makes me uncomfortable
Whatever makes you sleep at night.

>>63909069
>tangible evidence
Tangible evidence is me owning both enclosed and non-enclosed optics. A picture through a sight is never a realistic portrayal of what it is to look through it. The fact you think it is means you have never used an optic.

>>63909069
You should google what the word "tangible" means before the next time you try to use it, retard-kun.

>>63906401
Neat, TY.

>>63890854
i hate that this feels true and always makes me want to carry my Dan Wesson over one of my Glocks
let's see...
Glock 17
+ good capacity
+ reasonable weight
+ duty light
+ duty optic
- looks kinda gay (overrides all pros)
Dan Wesson CBob
- heavy
- low capacity
- no light
- no optic
+ looks kino (overrides all cons)
damn.

>>63909141
>>63909167
>multiple documented instances of something happening are not evidence
>it not happening to me is evidence of it being impossible to happen
sure is double digit IQ in here

>>63909141
>A picture through a sight is never a realistic portrayal of what it is to look through it.
Yes Anon pic in >>63903994 is actually a crisp dot irl, you're very smart.

>>63909722
>multiple documented
Pictures aren't documentation of what the eye sees, they're documentation of poor focus.
>>63909750
Samefagging won't help. You own no guns, no optics, and your opinions are worthless, because you are worthless.

>>63909763
>literally no dot to speak of just scattered light
>just poor focus bro lol
embarassing

>>63909705
>DW VBOB owner
>Never carry it because it costs way more to replace than a Glock brand block even with a red dot on it
>Shoot the Glock better anyways
I'm the exact opposite but you do you, outside of truly stupid/unreliable options the vast majority of handguns in any reasonable cartridge will work fine for self defense as long as you can shoot the thing passably well

>>63909789
>vast majority of handguns in any reasonable cartridge will work fine for self defense
This is true but what is also true but makes mongolian basket weaving forum dwellers uncomfortable is that situational awareness and not acting like a nigger also works fine 99% of the time with no gun involved. We're already autistic, either stay a normie and quit carrying or commit it by either carrying the most optimal firearm imaginable or a sawed off mosin.

>>63909781
Yes. Retard. Here's yet another example. None of these pictures displays what an ACOG reticle actually looks like, because they are not focused. (though it does display how ACOG illumination works accurately).

If the camera doesn't focus like your eyes, which it doesn't, it is not an accurate portrayal. You can post as many pictures as you want, it doesn't matter because you will never own a red dot or a pistol because you are a subhuman sack of shit who cannot and will not ever touch a gun.

>>63909886
>triples down on a dot turning into a dozen irregular dots randomly scattered on the window being a camera focus issue
Is your name Sergei by any chance?

>>63909789
>>63909816
nah i dig, i dont actually carry my DW Cbob
as much as i want to carry a "cool" pistol, the guns i trust with my life are my boring old gen 3 glocks. and like you i actually shoot them better than my "nicer" pistols anyway, go figure

>>63909722
>>63909750
>>63909781
>>63909909
This is getting a little pathetic, anon.
You actually, literally don't know how easy the problem is to fix instantly because you've never actually used the tech in question, and it seems like maybe never even seen it in person. You have both ACRO and RMR owners telling you that you're incorrect both in terms of overstating the issue of RMRs in the rain and overestimating how useable enclosed red dots are in the rain. The thread is full of both open and closed emitter pistol dot owners broadly agreeing that both have their upsides and downsides.
Even OP, who came in pretty hot on the superiority of enclosed red dots, was very reasonable when others gave their perspectives. Several others as well.
Not you though. Because you know so little that you can't even grasp how little knowledge and experience you actually possess.

Post your guns or shut the fuck up you dumb bitch.

>>63909909
I literally posted my pistol with an ACRO on it retard. Russians can't even own pistols-you know that I'm sure. Every accusation is a confession.