Thread 63889706

>Japs had shitty iron
>katanas rust if you look at then funny
>katanas are only good becuase of the autistic smiths

checkmate, atheists

>>63889706 (OP)
B8.

>Japanese blade
>Western blade
The only good swords come from India.

>>63889706 (OP)
>passed down oiled and cared for the whole time
>found in a field
These are not the same.

>>63889706 (OP)
It's a non-acidifying Cammelia oil. Blame the backward European agriculture, not its metallurgy.

>>63889706 (OP)
>Katanas are superior to longswords
>9mm is the best pistol caliber
>ARs are the best rifle platform
>Ukraine is totally winning against Russia
Is there any more classic /k/ope I'm missing?

>>63889781
not much else really

>>63889740
Is that a chainsword?

>metal that has been autistically maintained and preserved is in better condition than metal that wasn't
Stop the presses

>>63889825
>>63889752
That does raise the question of why so few European swords are rarely preserved in as good condition as katanas that can be generations old. I'm under the impression that swords were culturally highly regarded in European history given how common they were (and still are) depicted in artwork. It seems like so very few swords that are more than a few centuries old and good condition that aren't locked up in a museum display. Meanwhile you can find plenty of listings of for old katanas in good conditions for sale by and for sweaty sword autists.

What gives?

>>63889941
Are you stupid or just dense on purpose? Go to any history museum and you'll find thousands of swords of all kinds in excellent conditions.

>>63889706 (OP)
your (You), cretin.
on the flipside, that saber is probably piss easy to restore. dump it in an electrolytic bath, sharpen it a little and coat it in whatever oil you have nearby and it'll be back in working order. if that nihonto hadn't been obsessively maintained it'd be hell to restore.
>>63889941
not really. european swords fell out of favor relatively quick in anything but ceremonial settings, officer roles or as a (mostly decorative) sidearm. compare that with the banzai totsugeki of WWII, and them considering swords family heirlooms and whatnot. also, what >>63889964 said.

>>63889941
Like the other anon said, you can find well-preserved high quality swords in most cultures. The difference is that Europe kept on fighting its many, bloody wars and the pressure was to keep developing and doing the "new" thing. Swords simply became less and less relevant over time. Japan got the Edo period where you suddenly got a huge unemployed warrior class and you needed to do something about it. This is where a lot of the actual romanticized ideas of bushido and the sword as a sacred object come from especially since carrying the daisho was essentially your badge of office.

>>63889941
You preserve something that is rare and requires lots of effort to make.
Katanas were made bespoke by people who spent their entire lives mastering turning pig shit iron into something useable.
Eurpean blades, especially later on like that saber, were essentially mass produced because of availability of raw material.
There's more variables to this, like how the knowledge was passed on, how often there was a war going on, the intensity of combat, etc.

>western blade comes with inherent +50% tetanus chance status effect
checkmate weebs

>>63889941
Because Japan had fuck all iron any blade was extremely valuable and worth passing down for generations.
In Europe iron was plentiful blades were a consumable item, everyone could afford them and it wasn't a huge deal to lose or break one.

As others have said some have been well kept but they were never the near religous artifacts they were in the east.

The lower one was a tool of war used by commoners. The Japanese sword was used mostly for beheadings.

Nobunaga is arguably the most well known and famous Japanese leader in history and the second he had the option to use western equipment over japshit he immediately did so. Your response Wapanesefags?

>>63889740
made in solingen

>>63889941
Europeans had to upgrade their swords due to changing battlefield demands. A sword was still a cool thing sure but it wasn't tied to a single type of sword. King Arthur and d'Artagnan are both sword wielders but their respective time periods had a different understanding of what was a cool sword.
Japan by comparison was very static when it came to military technology. Hence they used almost the same sword types from the Mongol Invasion until the mid 19th century.

>>63890056
Rich people love everything foreign and exotic, especially if they're a huge cultural rebel who thinks their country is incredibly stagnant. He loved guns but he didn't really adopt Western swords or fencing techniques in any real degree, probably because they weren't really adapted for the realities of warfare in the Japanese context at the time. Curious.

Katanas can be polished by a togishi (professional sword polisher) as long as the rust is minimal. This actually increases the value of the blade, unlike with most other historical artifacts.

But the real reason is that Japanese pipo cared about swords a lot more than Euros did. The culture and status around the weapons was different, as well as the construction and longevity of blade designs. A 15th century katana or tachi was still relevant in the 18th century. In Europe, a 15th century longsword would have been completely obsolete by that time. So they put effort into maintaining and preserving their swords rather than just chucking em or reforging them into tools or whatever.

>t. Swordfag

>>63890195
>In Europe, a 15th century longsword would have been completely obsolete by that time.
This nobody wanted to be the loser with his great great grandfather's broadsword while everyone else had a shiny new saber.

>>63889964
There volume and quality of surviving European swords is a fraction of the volume and quality of surviving Japanese swords. Like we’re talking thousands vs hundreds of thousands. Or tens of thousands vs millions if you include weapons of later manufacture.

>>63890195
It is my understanding that medieval tachis were often cut down to be early modern katanas. So they were updated for the times.

>>63890229
Sword "recycling" was done more probably, yes. Usually that involved shortening the tang which usually also means losing the signature if there is one. In some ways this is nice because there's actually some decently cheap (read: 2000 to 3000 USD) blades that show clear signs of use even if they're remounted on modern fittings because people prefer pristine, signed blades. Found one at some point which was 2.40 or 2.45 shaku IIRC and it only weighed 900 or so grams with fittings on due to extensive sharpening and polishing, I suppose.

>>63889941
>>63889706 (OP)
>le japanese reddit culture thinks that blades have a soul and they're holy and if you're a samurai and you lose your sword you have to commit senpai or whatever
>apart from something like caliburn, euro culture not only didn't really attach anything to swords because they weren't huge cultural items, they also aged out of use pretty quickly in favor of firearms
>why euros not have shiny sword?
tools are mostly disposable for westerners whereas for the japanese, a 100 year old tool becomes tsukumogami and gets its own soul.
also the katana wasn't even the samurai's main weapon, naganata and bow saw more use for the samurai than the katana. As time went on, it was mostly a ceremonial piece and personal defense weapon

if the USMC did the whole "this is my rifle, there are many like it but this is mine" but instead of a rifle of theseus ratfucked in an armory, it was the one you got, and it was yours, you'd see more rifle idolatry similar to the katana in westerners despite the carbine not being a huge component of combined arms military doctrine (and the carbine is more or less the modern day katana)

reforging high carbon steel is also more difficult, and I would suspect that the way swords were sharpened in the west led to a fair amount of blade attrition grinding it basically into a rapier at which point it's melted and reforged

>>63889941
>why so few European swords are rarely preserved in as good condition
Because +90% of them went into the smelter at some point just like any other outdated piece of military equipment.

>>63889781
>>Katanas are superior to longswords
No /k/opers say this because /k/ users are extremely racist towards the japanese and will refuse to admit that the japanese can do anything better than white people

>>63890356
>japanese can do anything better than white people
Their animated porn is undeniably superior. Doesn't mean their swords don't suck.

>>63889781
>>63890356
rapiers are superior to both in a lot of situations
katanas and longswords are two totally different things, it's like saying a carbine is better than a shotgun
against japanese armor or an unarmored opponent, you would want something like a katana or a rapier because lamellar armor is resistant to slashing and thick poking, so you would use swordfighting techniques to get under, around, and between the armor
even armored, if you get hit in the head with a longsword, you're getting a concussion or getting fuckin' knocked out. longswords were not finesse weapons

>>63890356
That and being noswords. There's endless autistic arguments about metallurgy but it's entirely seperated from meaningful context on how the sword is actually used. Retards still think that a crossguard or that complex hilts are "objectively better".

>>63889781
All true.

>>63890385
Complex hilts are objectively superior in combat.

>>63890379
>against japanese armor or an unarmored opponent, you would want something like a katana or a rapier because lamellar armor is resistant to slashing and thick poking, so you would use swordfighting techniques to get under, around, and between the armor
>even armored, if you get hit in the head with a longsword, you're getting a concussion or getting fuckin' knocked out. longswords were not finesse weapons
Just complete nonsense here. They were as much finesse weapons as katanas. People just don't understand that sword fighting was actually fencing.

>>63889941
>Country segregates itself from the world for centuries
>Culture stagnates
>While everyone else is ditching sword and adopting firearms you remain shanking eachother with your swords
>Swords become a highly valuable asset and worth preserving
Also
>High militarized warrior elite that fails to adopt newer weapons since the country is cut off from the world obsessively maintains their weapons since it's a point of pride.

>>63889781
I say this and look like this thoughever'st

>>63890404
Depending on the kind they will actively fuck with many balancing and handling aspects of a sword and whilst it's not strictly "combat" a sword is useless if you can't draw it properly when you need it. Not to mention that after a certain degree "extra protection" is just superfluous even assuming that you aren't WEARING hand protection. Never at any point have I felt that a simple disc guard doesn't provide enough protection. Even a crossguard with nagels or side-rings will handle quite differently due to all the extra mass and balance.

>>63890379
>rapiers are superior to both in a lot of situations
Rapiers are not primary military weapons. They're civilian light blades. Long swords disappeared primarily because of the advance of firearms, which led to pike square formations that are not conductive to sword fighting.
Katanas ans long swords are both military weapons. The former was also a status symbol during Edo when there was no one to fight.
t. did fencing with both a rapier and later a long sword (never did katanas though)

>>63890473
>a sword is useless if you can't draw it properly when you need it
I honestly don't know how much of a problem that is. In many situations you would have issues effectively drawing or wielding anything but a dirk. Someone with a short blade can close the distance very quickly.
Crossguards are absolutely amazing for winding. I know a couple of kenjutsu guys are they're absolutely jelly of them.

>>63890473
>balancing
That’s a skill issue for the smith, not an issue with the concept. Even so, adding weight to the hilt is rarely a bad thing for balance, hence why pommels are a thing.
>WEARING hand protection
Most people do not wear armor day to day, and even on the battlefield a guard will protect you better than any articulated gauntlet (if you even have one) while minimally impairing range of motion and dexterity. And of course, you can have both.
>Never at any point have I felt that a simple disc guard doesn't provide enough protection.
Never fenced rapier? Or even longsword? Hell, even olympic epee?
It’s not even just about protection. A proper guard opens up so many options it’s unreal. And hand snipes are a very real issue even with relatively protective guards.

>>63889706 (OP)
>There are no 1000 year old European swords

>>63890532
>There are no 3600 year old european swords

>>63889785
Birth rates actually shot up 9000% in March
No we can't show you the data

>>63890547
>Tfw Zelda is a T*rk ripoff
Kek
>This 2000 year old Japanese decorative sword was so superior, look, no rust!
Pic rel, no rust at all!!

E-Eurosisters? Our response??

>>63890385
>>63890404
>>63890473

The debate about hilts in Katana is stupid because the hilts during the actual warfare periods of Japan were MUCH bigger than for Katanas that survived to our era

During the Edo period the hilts shrinked in size since katanas werent used as weapons of war much and more as prestige pieces
Moreover in the age of gunpowder hilts were not that relevant so its not like they cared much about getting swordfights

>>63890385
>Japan invades Korea with traditional swords lacking a crossguard or complex hilt
>decisive Japanese defeat
>Japan adopts western style swords 250 years later
>invades Korea
>decisive Japanese victory
>Korea conquered and made a Japanese colony
Checkmate senpai ;^)

>>63890547
>bronze
>TURKISH
0 turkic people during that era in that place

>>63890527
>That’s a skill issue for the smith, not an issue with the concept. Even so, adding weight to the hilt is rarely a bad thing for balance, hence why pommels are a thing.

I get what you're saying but at that point you're adding MORE weight to offset the weight you're already piling onto the sword. The balance might feel nice but the sword is still going to end up noticeably heavier.

>Most people do not wear armor day to day, and even on the battlefield a guard will protect you better than any articulated gauntlet (if you even have one) while minimally impairing range of motion and dexterity. And of course, you can have both.

Again, more isn't always better on the basis that it might just be counterproductive until the one fringe case comes up. It's not quite the perfect analogy but take how most people kit their PCs or armor setups where minimalism is all the rage. I wouldn't drop side or back plates like certain others though on the basis of "just dont get shot lmao".

>Never fenced rapier? Or even longsword? Hell, even olympic epee?
>It’s not even just about protection. A proper guard opens up so many options it’s unreal. And hand snipes are a very real issue even with relatively protective guards.

I've played with it. Mean to visit my local clubs more at some point for giggles and that's where "not better or worse but different" comes in. The guard positions and offensive actions you do with a katana and longsword are very different to ensure that you can actually protect yourself and attack at the same time. Whilst the longsword has maximized length in most variants with distal taper and so on, the katana is fairly uniform in mass distribution. This means that the center of percussion on the katana is extremely close to the tip and means that you can use the blade ridge (shinogi) in a way that you can't quite with the longsword. At the same time you can't really thrust and use the crossguard to cover yourself at the same time with it.

>>63890561
I was about to post the chink sword. It's only 2400 years old and tin and copper (bronze).
>The sword was found sheathed in a wooden scabbard finished in black lacquer.
>The scabbard had an almost air-tight fit with the sword body.

>>63890577
I don't really care, it's in Turkey now, some variant of Aryan's then.

Urumi > Katana

>>63889781
You just had to slip that last part in there and hope everyone with at least part of his brain intact will just gloss over it, didn't you?

>>63890585
>I don't really care,
then stfu

>>63890458
look like what? There's no picture, retard

>>63890527
Filtered by post length in my last post but to continue on.

>It’s not even just about protection. A proper guard opens up so many options it’s unreal. And hand snipes are a very real issue even with relatively protective guards.

This is a modern sporting thing. Unless someone lunges super hard then protecting your hands is usually fairly easy and problematic in the sense that in DA STREEEEEETSSSS (real combat) a hand flick is very rarely decisive and you might just be trading your head for that instead. But this is hard to abstract and put into rules but I'm essentially a big fan of "afterblow" rules I think they call it in HEMA. Anyway, one of the easiest ways if you know they like hand sniping is to simply raise your hands out of the way and then crush theirs by cutting back into the center line but armchairing about this usually doesn't go anywhere because it relies on so many stupid things like non-verbals, distance and timing.

>>63889781
>>Katanas are superior to longswords
>>9mm is the best pistol caliber
>>ARs are the best rifle platform
>>Ukraine is totally winning against Russia
>Is there any more classic /k/ope I'm missing?

>Ben Stoeger is a God and all the shitting and pissing he does to anyone is always 100% completely deserved and never to be questioned

>>63890617
Or simply use the correct guard position to protect your hands from such flimsy "cheap shots".

>>63890601
No. The point was only to annoy OP, not to be perfectly accurate as to which specific euro-asian racial group it came from.

>>63890592
>Even museum pieces from India are caked in shit

>>63889706 (OP)
>Not making daggers out of shipwrecked jap and chink metal

>>63890561
>>63890579
this is blatantly fake

>>63890578
>you're adding MORE weight
No you’re not. For a blade of a given length and geometry, you need to move the center of mass a fixed amount of distance for proper balance. It doesn’t make very much of a difference if any if you put that weight in the guard or in the pommel. And a lot of protective guards (e.g. dish guards) are actually quite light.

>katana center of balance
It’s a bit forward compared to most longswords, but not more than any other cutting focused sword.

>not better or worse but different
Being able to attack while protected is literally the biggest possible advantage you can have. It is perhaps hard to see how much of a difference it actually makes unless you compare them directly. Obviously longsword vs. longsword or katana vs. katana is an even playing field.

>>63890617
>in DA STREEEEEETSSSS (real combat) a hand flick is very rarely decisive
I could not disagree more. Hand snipes are debilitating. You are seriously underestimating how easy is it to cut things with a sword. A flick to an unarmored forearm will cut to the bone. To the hand, it’s absolutely a fight ender. And the hand/wrist is almost always the closest target.

But again, that’s only half (or less) of the equation. You simply have more options, and the opponent has fewer lines of attack.
“Just play around it” isn’t an answer, and I think the historical trend towards more hand protection (especially in the context of dueling) proves that.

>>63890804
>>katana center of balance
It’s a bit forward compared to most longswords, but not more than any other cutting focused sword.

Center of percussion. Not balance.

>Being able to attack while protected is literally the biggest possible advantage you can have. It is perhaps hard to see how much of a difference it actually makes unless you compare them directly. Obviously longsword vs. longsword or katana vs. katana is an even playing field.

That's the thing. Most longsword guards simply protect you from other lines of attack in other positions due to the crossguard. An extreme example is that it's effectively useless if you take some kind of jodan (overhead) stance and cut vertically. It will not protect your hands. Nor will it do so if you stand in chudan (middle) stance.

>I could not disagree more. Hand snipes are debilitating. You are seriously underestimating how easy is it to cut things with a sword. A flick to an unarmored forearm will cut to the bone. To the hand, it’s absolutely a fight ender. And the hand/wrist is almost always the closest target.

But again, that’s only half (or less) of the equation. You simply have more options, and the opponent has fewer lines of attack.
“Just play around it” isn’t an answer, and I think the historical trend towards more hand protection (especially in the context of dueling) proves that.

Again, a tsuba or disc guard is quite protective if you use it properly. A longsword crossguard is easier to "cut on top of" if you don't position it correctly. And yes, the hands are the closest.... if you present them. They're also the easiest and fastest to move out of the way. That and you'll find that whilst there was a trend during the arms race to make the biggest, most elaborate and unwieldy rapiers it eventually culminated in the smallwords which feature simple disc-like guards. Even a lot of European "military rapiers" essentially boiled it down to that.

>>63890735
Obviously, China likes to manufacture bullshit history

>>63890532
>>63890543
>>63890547
>highly nicked and heavy oxidization all over

You fail assignment.

>>63890735
>>63890735
The Sword of Goujian is quite real and has been independently examined by many archeologists. reproductions abound, but the artifact itself is real, and we're still not entirely sure how it was made, since it consists of several different composition of bronze that were not brazed together but cast together

>>63890882
>Center of percussion.
This isn’t a thing

>Again, a tsuba or disc guard is quite protective if you use it properly.
Not at all compared to a cruciform or complex hilt.

>the hands are the closest.... if you present them.
No, your hands are the closest target because the hands are holding your sword which you are attacking with…

>An extreme example is that it's effectively useless if you take some kind of jodan (overhead) stance and cut vertically.
No? What??
If you just stand there in measure doing nothing, you’re going to get your wrists cut, but presumably you would want to attack and move your point forward at some point before that happens…

>Nor will it do so if you stand in chudan (middle) stance.
No??????

>smallwords
Smallswords were objectively worse at killing people than their predecessors. A guy with a rapier would absolutely dunk on a guy with a smallsword. Maximum effectiveness was not their purpose.

>>63891114
>Center of percussion.
>This isn’t a thing

Oh, you're just an idiot. I wish you luck on your path.

>>63889706 (OP)
>1000 years old
Masamune swords are no more than 737 years old, and you can see on the nakago/tang how the steel looks without constant maintenance by the owner over the centuries

It’s frightening how these sub 70iq animals >63891142 are allowed to post on this website.

>>63889706 (OP)
Europeans consider patina to be valuable in itself for some reason, patina is usually a fine mix of dirt, oil and thin rust.

Japanese swords shown here were sent to a polisher for maintenance, the polisher will grind the blade down to eliminate traces of rust.

Also the Japanese like to strip down the furnishings of the sword and consider the blade itself to be most valuable.

People complain about swords like these >>63890532 being roughed up, but that's literally the whole point of the scabbard. In Japan the 100yo scabbard would've been thrown away for a new one 200yrs ago.

>>63891089
>but cast together
It was made by wizards

>>63890555
Wait... sending a million men far from their wives makes procreation less likely? I feel like we need several studies on this.

>>63890555
I'll impregnate all of the Russian women for $20 each or whatever a million rubles is worth.

>>63889706 (OP)
One was constantly polished the other one wasn't you fucking retard.

>>63891988
More like one was actually used and the other was a status symbol that an arrogant zipper head used to abuse peasants

>>63891168
That isn't a Masamune, moron.

>>63890478

From the 1700s onward, the dominant western sword became the saber, because the only ones who still used swords as their primary weapon were cavalry.

>>63890499
>Crossguards are absolutely amazing for winding. I know a couple of kenjutsu guys are they're absolutely jelly of them.

I feel that if you're using your crossguard/tsuba for winding you're essentially doing things wrong. Not saying it doesn't work I just don't find it to be ideal because the margin of error by having to rely on my guard means that the blade is physically closer to me compared to what certain kenjutsu styles do which is usually some kind of rolling action (makiotoshi), upwards deflection using the shinogi (blade ridge, suriage-waza) or master cut (kiriotoshi) if we stick strictly more to things that are like deflections. Japanese swordsmanship generally seems to think that you shouldn't linger or seek a bind and religiously sticks to the minutiae of footwork, timing and so on. Especially since the blade geometry of the katana means that it manipulates with the blade exceedingly well compared to a longsword.

What ryuha (style) do those "kenjutsu guys" practice, anyhow?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ndkh8MQw9ZM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TnQgajmbEhE

>>63892320
Why are esl monkeys like this

>>63891168
>you can see on the nakago/tang how the steel looks without constant maintenance by the owner over the centuries
You fucking idiot. The tang is not polished on a katana. What you are seeing is the difference between raw, forged steel with no finish vs a polished blade. Forged, unpolished steel will patina and turn black. You retard.

>>63889941
>why so few European swords are rarely preserved in as good conditio
Ever been in a museum? For every historical katana in good condition there are 10 European swords in better shape

>>63889941
Swords in Japanese culture have a mythical status, with each Katana being its own Kami. Swords are deified, hence the propensity to want to protect and revere them above what you'd normally do for a tool you want to trust your life too.

Also most swords were melted down and seized over the many sword hunts of the past few hundred years, so the surviving examples are naturally going to be better preserved due to scarcity - especially if they're from a famous swordsmith. Many swords are worth more than a house in Japan.

>>63890555
Why doesn't Putin just ban abortion/birth control? He's dictator-for-life.
What, you can send 1 million men to get cubed, bury Wagner scum next to venerated, worshipped WWII vets, and force people to embrace as heroes the psychotic murderers/rapists who terrorized them, were convicted, then locked away, only to be freed for surviving a penal battalion meatwave... but you can't ban contraceptives?
I don't get it, even more churkas can't fill the gap.

>>63891955
enjoy your AIDS

>>63894241
>Many swords are worth more than a house in Japan.
So like $4000 usd?

>>63894241
Fucking bullshit they mass produced during every major war you dumbfuck.

>>63889706 (OP)
>OH MY JAPANESE KULCHA!
I hate summerfags so much it's unreal

>>63894144
>Ever been in a museum?

Uh, that's kind of the point, bud. You have to go to a public museum to see a good quality sword from the 1500s. Meanwhile katanafags have a whole market trading high quality antique swords just because there's so many of them around. You don't have to go to a museum to see a quality katana that's hundreds of years old.

>>63889986
Samurai were extremely associated with horseback spearmanship and archery until the shoguns started being autistic (most of the last millennium).

>>63894494
You can buy antique Europoor swords but they are MUCH more expensive, and a bit harder to find. Not that a quality antique katana is cheap either.

I still want a rotella and a halberd though…

>>63894715
Also, vikang age swords are extremely rare and usually in poor condition. You mostly see later 1600’s+ swords for sale

>>63889706 (OP)
>Japs had shitty iron
This has always been overblown. Trade existed in Japan between China, Korea and India.

>>63890345
This is probably the most correct answer tbdesuyo

>>63889706 (OP)
Euro swords were actually used as weapons and so were damaged and reforged. Katanas were more of a fashion statement and not an effective weapon to be used in combat

>>63889982
>european swords fell out of favor relatively quick in anything but ceremonial settings
they didnt fall into a purely ceremonial role until well into the flintlock era
swords stubbornly refused to leave combat until melee weapons as a whole were already out

>>63896265
tbf, most iron was shit before the industrial revolution. but grades of iron ore are real just like grades of coal are

>>63894488
Yeah, we haven't hit our daily quota of Ukraine slide threads yet we can't possibly allow a weapons-themed thread to get in the way of that

>>63889706 (OP)
>top: the fud with his collectible mint condition $10k 1911 he never actually shot or took out of its case because that would instantly make it lose 30% of its value
>bottom: the guy that goes through so many rounds/year guns themselves become a consumable
If you're not okay with throwing your gun against a wall full force, be it because you're confident in its durability or you can replace any damaged parts without an issue, your gun is a toy and you're a larper.

>>63889941
Collectors in europe: If a nanogram of metal is removed the price goes down, meaning is better to leave them rusted than clean it.

Collectors in japan: If does not shine like a mirror value plummets.

Different markets.

>>63894741
>You mostly see later 1600’s+ swords for sale
Katana are the same way. Most of the antiques were from the Edo period so they likely were never used in battle. They're only like 400yo max. Swords from the Sengoku or earlier command a much higher price, but there's still a shit ton of them around.

>>63889941
because japanese are autistic

>>63898190
this is retarded, I'm not throwing my LTT 92 against a wall. Most likely nothing will happen but I need to dig out and rescue a sheared optic screw like I need a second asshole
don't abuse your tools
a better analogy is
>top: war capture Luger P08
>bottom: clapped out police trade-in glock 23
I'll gladly take both but one has value based on condition and history, and the other is a mass-produced tool

>>63894488
>doubting the superiority of Japanese Culture
First day on 4chan?

>>63897686
I can't quite remember which is which, but I believe one side was issuing socket bayonets for the rank and file around the 18th century, and one side produced shin-guntō for their corporals and above until the fucking nukes fell. think you can help?
>muh cavalry swords
shut up. it's not like I explicitly stated
>anything but [...] sidearm
or anything.

>>63899387
Swords didn't fall out relatively quickly, they lasted more than a thousand years and outlived other melee weapons like maces in frontline combat
The only other weapons with a comparable lifespan is the club and the spear

>>63897866
ruzzia lost, get over it

>>63897689
Japan had, hands down, the most and the best quality iron ore in SEAsia until they used it all up in the early days of industrialization. It also produced (and assaysed and logged) huge quantities of excellent iron and steel and was the biggest exporter of steel goods including weapons for hundreds of years.
The idea that Japan lacked iron or couldn't produce good steel is literally 180 degrees away fro the historical record, and most of it stems from the post-WWI Cool Japan project designed to revise Japanese history from a record of prosperity, acheivement and military dominance to one of humble beginnings and scarcity overcome througfh hard work, loyalty and community spirit.
not even making that up, that's what happened when Japan got its act together post-MacArthur and started to expand globally again.
all that shit- lone samurai in rags, poor dusty village with stout young blacksmith recyling pots, struggling farmers breaking their nacks in the rice fields, 47 ronin, loyal servant betrayed by evil daimyo, pots of rice gruel over campfires -all of it was a work. fake as shit

>>63889941
plently of european swords still cared for and on display, europeans just made so many swords that your likely to find them buried in a field compared to the time consuming handcraft japanese swords made from harder to find materials

>>63899417
russia is winning though. russia controls 20-25% of ukraine while ukraine controls >0.1% of russia.
>but russia had a bunch of casualties and people casualties don't determine who wins, just look at the winter war. also ukraine lost far more people than russia due to refugees fleeing alone

>>63894282
>>Why doesn't Putin just ban abortion/birth control?
like thats ever worked. if a dictator wants to improve birth rates he needs to take away women's right to vote, work, and go to school and i am not joking.

>>63899892
>take away women’s ri- ACKKKKKKKKK
Sorry chuddy, try again.

>>63899614
Fact fact, only good post in the thread

>>63899828
>russia is winning though. russia controls 20-25% of ukraine while ukraine controls >0.1% of russia.
Not according to russia lmao, they annexed a bumch of land they haven't even taken, so according to russian law Ukraine is occupying russia.
Coincidentally, that also makes your post in violation of Article 280 part one of the russian criminal code by saying those lands aren't russian

>>63899925
>russia doesn't control all of ukraine
it controls more of ukraine than ukraine controls of russia, and controls the majority of disputed territory. russia hasn't won but it is winning by any metric
>article 280
who cares i dont live in russia

>>63899614
Japan is not in SEA first of all.

Secondly
Japan didn't export katanas. They exported some double edge bladed sword.

The swords Japan made for export were different. Also that's not why the Ming imported Japanese swords.

The Ming emperor didn't understand economics and thought importing products and materials woud bankrupt the contries of origin from those products and materials.

The Ming placed large orders for swords from Japan and horns (for bow making) from Korea because the emperor thought that meant there would by no swords left in Japan and no bows left in Korea

It had nothing to do with Japanese words being better.

>military dominance

Japan lost every war with foreign powers before the Meiji restoration.

Look up battle of Baekgang and noryang.

>>63899614
>>63902074

The Mongols slaughtered one third of the Japanese samurai on the beach in the first invasion and the rest of the samurai fled in panic.

The samurai were calling out individual challenges for duels, while the Mongol forces laughed at them and closed ranks as one unit and defeated them on the first day.

Then they returned to their ships for the night and the kamikaze storm wrecked the fleet.


Japanese bows are absolutely inferior to mainland Asian composite bows like the Mongol bow, in both power, range and unwieldiness.

Have you seen the size of Japanese yumi compared to compact composite bows?

>>63899614
>Japan had, hands down, the most and the best quality iron ore in SEAsia until they used it all up in the early days of industrialization.
Japanese iron ores are sulfuric garbage and always have been, which is why ironsands have always been important.

It also produced (and assaysed and logged) huge quantities of excellent iron and steel and was the biggest exporter of steel goods including weapons for hundreds of years.
>The idea that Japan lacked iron or couldn't produce good steel is literally 180 degrees away fro the historical record
They produced steel in bloomeries using ironsands and their yields were god-awful. Blooms were a huge mass of pig iron and wrought iron with mild steel a bit farther from the center and a tiny bit of good sword steel around the fringes.

>>63889941
I'm Swedish and one of my classmates was part of an old noble family.
One time he invited the whole class to his family's "castle", more of a really big mansion really, and all of the walls were covered from floor to ceiling with stuff that you would think are supposed to be in a museum.
Centuries old swords, pistols, muskets, maps, flags, armour, war loot etc.
Even the history teacher was shocked and asked his father if these things weren't better kept in a museum and the father just said "they are ours".

Apparently a huge amount of European history and artifacts are kept in private hands.

>>63899916
Compare to Afghanistan.

>>63894282
>Why doesn't Putin just ban abortion/birth control? He's dictator-for-life.
Misunderstanding of Russian social culture (which to you is probably surprisingly liberal and rabidly so if anything) & women, it'd never work out and if anything you'd only see even further emigration.
Women will desire children if it's rewarded with social status.

>>63889941
Most Katanas are from the 17th-19th century.
They aren't that old

>>63902588
>a huge amount of European history and artifacts
A little known secret until you've ebtered the upper classes, is that Musuems have all the broken dug up dirty old shit nobody wants except for brainless tourists to gawp at and archeologists to spooge over, and all the beautiful, non-broken, well kept old shit belongs to the wealthy, who hoard it away from the public forever, unless it gets broken, in which case the give the pieces to a museum.
I remember walking into a school friends brownstone and they had a goddamn 4000 year old Assyrian temple wall relief in the foyer

>>63902588
>and the father just said "they are ours".
Based dad telling that libtard to suck a cock.