What’s the point of Russian air defense systems? The recent Iran bombing showed they don’t work. Iran had the world’s 3rd largest air defense network and it failed to defend anything at any level.

Is it just a way to scam gullible third world countries for money?

>>63892006 (OP)
no it's to make air operations more difficult as part of a combined arms war fighting operational system.
complete denial of enemy air operations by surface to air missile complexes requires a great quantity of anti air systems. more than anyone can afford. one must pick which targets to guard and with improper positioning it often happens that the system as a whole can be dismantled piecemeal if there are not highly mobile threats to enemy air war fighting operational vehicles.
basically you need more than just a bunch of missiles you need plnes in the aerial war fighting area

>>63892066
Were Israeli air operations over Iran more difficult to the point of relevancy? They seemed to hit anywhere they want at any time.

>>63892006 (OP)
They only work against other turdies, nothing can stop the f35.

>>63892081
you forgot civilian airliners

>>63892006 (OP)
>>63892066
>>63892073
it was relevant in the 80's when it was developed, but stealth tech kept advancing in the west and russia shit out the S-400 which obviously doesn't really do much against things developed in current year

overall, it's a great defense against things made by russia and that's about all

>>63892006 (OP)
If you have money, buy American.
If you don't have enough money, buy French.
If nobody will sell to you and you don't want to get tut-tutted about human rights, buy Russian.

if you want to shoot down Rafales, buy Chinese

>>63892006 (OP)
>The recent Iran bombing showed they don’t work.
they might have worked if the Israelis didn't send in commandos to do a synchronized strike with NLOS spike missiles on 7 air defense batteries

>The recent Iran bombing showed they don’t work
the recent iran bombing showed that iran didn't have nationwide integrated air defense system. just the launchers. the russians have suggested integrating iran's ad network with their own, but the iranians refused. they might reconsider now.

inversely, we've seen that israel has the most overhyped air defenses in the world. outdated, faulty, easily overwhelmed, and very very very short on interceptors - which is the main reason the us and israel have copped out of protracted war with iran.

>>63892618
so.. if the israelis defense systems don't work, why were the iranians unable to inflict serious damage?

>>63892006 (OP)
What the fuck is that image quality?
Here, have a better image, ya poor bastard.

Here's another. Take's like two seconds.

>>63892632
the iranians were able to inflict plenty of damage. israel's energy infrastructure has been hit hard in particular. refineries, oil storages, import facilities. the iranians did a precise strike on israel's main refinery and oil tanks in haifa, due to which israel power plants have switched to coal, from oil/gas. had the war proceeded further, iran would have had israel by the balls. hence, the ceasefire.

>>63892707
yeah

>>63892006 (OP)
>The recent Iran bombing showed they don’t work
Air defense needs low-frequency radars and ARH missiles to shoot down a B-2. Iran’s export model of the S-300 might have not had that but Russia might have systems that do.
Also, most countries don’t need to worry about amerigolem deploying its stealth bombers in support of its greatest ally

>>63893008
My more retarded take is “iran didnt shoot down the bombers on purpose; they knew that the MOPs wouldnt do shit and wanted to avoid provoking the usa”
This is retarded but still worth bringing up

>>63893008
The Iranian air defense system had already been gutted by the time the US got involved.

iranians were hitting strategic targets through sm-3, thaad, and not-patriot layered defense with 1980s ballistic missile tech.

it's all relative.

>>63892006 (OP)
>What’s the point of Russian air defense systems?
They are a Finnish foreign intelligence operation to make Russians absolutely defenseless against any western aircraft. Their only function is to shoot down Russian built planes. That intelligence operation got inadvertently even more successful as the ziggers started selling the systems to other belligerent shitholes.

>>63892618
>Muh Iranian monkey crew
>Muh non-existent integration to Russian AD network
Explain why your venerated Russian AD models get regularly splashed in Ukraine to

>>63893215
it's the same reason patriots have been getting destroyed by iskander (with both sides being somewhat competent).

nothing is invulnerable and a wonder weapon.

>>63893220
>nothing is invulnerable and a wonder weapon.
Finally a slavaboo who is at least somewhat honest. Will you concede that the rates at which Russian AD manned by Russian crews gets splashed means that the AD itself might be a bit shit? Or do you concede that it means that Russian crews are monkeys?

>>63892707
>had the war proceeded further, iran would have had israel by the balls

we learned this last time Trump was in power. The US somehow mysteriously disabled all the russian air defence to do the tomahwk strike

>>63893286
>It can't be that Russian AD is just fucking shit
>It can't be that Russian AD crews are just subhumans
>It must be that the God Emperor Trump magically disabled everything

>>63893295
>russian made AA just conveniently stops working every time the US does any sort of strike in the ME.
Im suggesting that its as simple as walking up to the things and pressing the off switch.

>>63893329
>Russkies conspire with their geopolitical rival to destroy their own shit
>from Iraq to Syria to Ukraine to Iran
kek you delusional slavaboos are hilarious

>>63893329
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Outside_the_Box
It is a known fact israel glowies bought exploits avout russ ad to strike sirya

>>63892523
>they might have worked if
Ah, the eternal Moskal mantra.

>>63892618
>inversely, we've seen that israel has the most overhyped air defenses in the world. outdated, faulty, easily overwhelmed, and very very very short on interceptors - which is the main reason the us and israel have copped out of protracted war with iran.
It's the most advanced in the world technologically, but all of that is also true. I mean just for relative comparisons sake, pick another country and launch more than 500 ballistic missiles at it. It's pretty amazing that only around 30 people died. (Of course the safe rooms or "mamads" in people's apartments lowered the death toll too.)

Or imagine what the war would've been like without the interceptors at all. Just saying.

>>63892006 (OP)
Iran need to revamp its BMS as their AD is operating independently


Also most of its AD are AAs and Buk M1 with S400 being kept out of the picture. Prolly because none of israeli planes fly inside iranian airspace and they rely on standoff weapons launched from Syria and Iraq

>>63892707
>had the war proceeded further, iran would have had israel by the balls
Oh I get it, you're retarded.

>>63892523
>be in a state of war
>don't protect your important AD from ground strikes
What did the shitskins mean by this?

>>63892006 (OP)
>What’s the point of Russian air defense systems?
To make westerners and their vassals seethe online over downed airliners.

>>63893659
You're in a thread about the specific AD system, not ground strike prevention you retarded brown monkey.

>>63892618
>>63892707
What ever helps you sleep at night I guess.

I believe results would've been the same if it were western AD systems. Having long range AD doesn't magically make you immune to getting blown the fuck up. Aircraft would just operate outside the system's range and throw ordinance at it and depending on the AD system and missiles it carries it's going to struggle to intercept.

Having an airforce in patrol would be leagues better but also WAY more expensive.

>>63892006 (OP)
Russian strategic air defense systems are all designed for a world where the XB-70 and Project Pluto weren't cancelled. The idea frightened the Soviets so badly it mindraped their entire air defense planning for decades after the US cancelled it.
Some of their smaller tactical defense systems are actually quite good and sensible, however, if a bit outdated now. Why everyone buys S-400s when Tor is a rare Soviet product that actually works continues to baffle me.

>>63893564
and most(all?) deaths were from the first 4 days when people didnt take it seriously and all go to their safe rooms. Though at least 1 hit an old building from the 50s or 60s that didnt have one or a cellar

>>63893887
People dont appreciate what a massive operational undertaking it is to conduct a successful SEAD/DEAD campaign.
Those AD systems are more than enough to deter most regional adversaries from trying anything. but whjen youre up against 2 of the only countries on the planet who have a proven track record of successfully conducting such operations , then everything looks a hell of a lot different.

>>63892707
haha
that was a good one

>>63892680
OP just wanted something that matches Russian weapon quality.

>>63892006 (OP)
>Iran had the world’s 3rd largest air defense network

Bullshit. They had like 5-6 s300 batteries (most of which were destroyed even before mossad killed the rest during the initial strikes) and a bunch of ancient soviet crap and flak guns

>>63892006 (OP)
Thirdies don't do live fire training and Russian SAMs are much more manual in operation than their western counterparts.

If you gave an american/european crew a few S300/400 batteries i bet you they would perform flawlessly

These things “fail” constantly because they are manned by drunken russian subhumans or brown people with an i.q of 80 that barely understand electricity

>>63894139
If they counted every single DShK on a tripod as an 'air defense system' their numbers probably looked very impressive.

They work as long as losing even one attacking plane constitutes a reputation hit.

When strike fleets are converted to unmanned, low-throughput missile air defenses cease to be relevant. But so do most of conventional "tank" or "ship" type vehicles and vessels, since they are merely elaborate life support onions of metal and insulation, and have no place in a robotic battlefield where their only application is getting destroyed.>>63894507

>>63892006 (OP)
At this point the only country that unironically trust russian AD systems is India kek .

>>63892006 (OP)
First of all, Iran doesn't have an airforce, very weak C4ISR
>3rd largest air defense network
Mostly garbage knock-offs of outdated Soviet hardware. Only a handful of their ADs are considered modern

>>63892680
>>63892684
why does the way that truck's front look make me hard

>>63894719
And that's only because Pakistan CHOSE to shoot down Indian Rafales from their own airspace. Of course India's S400s would be completely incompetent at interceptions as well.

>>63894154
No, they are also made by drunken minimum wage Russians. Their electronics are shit. Their manufacturing processes are garbage. They are inferior.

>>63892066
>you need plnes in the aerial war fighting area
or baloons permanently stationed in the stratosphere each carrying an AA missile

>>63892618

>>63892006 (OP)
This is like the Gulf War all over again. Everyone expected Iran to put up a tougher fight, and now Ziggers and the rest are scrambling to find a means to cope with the fact they severely underestimated the quality and quantity of American air power and the entire world (read: potential export buyers) saw their supposedly cutting edge AA reduced to junk by a mere limited strike.

>>63893008
You do realize the lower the frequency the worse a radar is for fire control.
Because the lower it is the larger the antenna has to be, the worse the resolution is, the more problems you have with noise, the higher the power requirements are, and lastly is extremely weather dependent.
So basically the magic low frequency radar everyone talks about is a radar so large it probably has to have a fixed site. It can only tell you a very approximate location, and that is only if you can distinguish anything in that very noisy part of the spectrum. And you better hope there are no clouds or rain. Because you know what else is a low frequency radar? The weather radars.

>>63892006 (OP)
Indenturing countries via contracts for maintenance.

>>63892006 (OP)
>Iran had the world’s 3rd largest air defense network
Is it true? How many units did they have? I'd expect the top 3 to be USA, Israel and then either South Korea or Taiwan. Then maybe Japan. Top 3 seems far fetched.

>>63892006 (OP)
>The recent Iran bombing showed they don’t work
Are you retarded? The israelis were flying on the outskirts of iran launching ALBM"s and cruise missiles. There is not one shred of evidence that a single israeli manned aircraft flew over tehran. That's either due to f14's or SU35 or the air defense, you decide. THe b2's flew over fordow after a deal was made because trump begged iran to let him put on a show.

>>63898452
Impressive alternate reality you've built for yourself, anon

>>63898467
perhaps you have some evidence of your "definitely real" reality

>>63898452
>THe b2's flew over fordow after a deal was made because trump begged iran to let him put on a show.

In modern warfare, it seems difficult to compensate for losses and consumption with production.

>>63898480
no one is gonna do any effort posting for you, now fuck off back to /pol/ shill

>>63892618
Integration or not they had four batteries with four launcher each. Complete joke numbers for a country that big. Couple that with the fact that they are big ass targets with essentially zero forest cover where to hide them and whose movement can be monitored near real time. If they even bothered to relocate them periodically.
There is also no evidence of them attempting any large scale decoy shenanigans. And even if they did you still got to radiate if you want the system to be any use and that will reveal the real targets.

>>63894603
I mean, "they" were hyping some downed recon drones at Yemen, they won't change, which is all the israelis can ask for.

This isn't really that on topic but... I wonder what aerial warfare would have looked in this war if stealth wasn't a factor and EW was limited

>>63899517
Realistically a much slower SEAD/DEAD campaign creeping across western Iran probably lacking most of the decapitation strikes in favor of more strikes against their missile launching capacity. Most of Iran's problems don't stem from stealth or EW issues.

>>63892006 (OP)
their systems can work, if you have the right saturation. they're not useless, but russia opened too wide a front which caused gaps to open up that left them vulnerable, further increasing the gaps as the AD systems were struck down and isolated rather than being able to overlap and support eachother. iran couldn't protect itself or properly prepare against a SEAD campaign, and thus immediately began to suffer from losing AD and having a similar problem as modern SEAD wiped out what they had and stretched it too thin to provide defense. they work, it's just that nobody who's trying to use them has the numbers, or the doctrine to make them work.

crimea actually proves this point. while russia AD was heavy, it could defend against the majority of attacks, but as the rest of the front line struggled, and they began to face strikes at home on infrastructure and military installations, they cycled more and more AD away, and eventually ended up weakening the defenses so much that suddenly the ukes were blowing up AD with impunity, causing the defenses to rapidly collapse and open the door to further and further strikes until they cycled more defenses back in. it's become a dangerous balancing act though, as if the bridge gets fucked, they cant get the AD out or in easily without risking it getting struck, and if they dont have the AD there, the bridge can definitely get struck.

>>63892006 (OP)
they are good against other soviet systems, turdies and civilian airlines. ah also they look good in camera

>>63898452
> because trump begged iran to let him put on a show
And they would agree to that because...

>>63899759
Something something, Jewish tricks.

>>63892006 (OP)
Well, it's unironically skill issue, S300-400 are good system but they are limited, their shortcomings must be offset by other systems and experienced crews. It wasn't a case. I am not even sure they had proper communication between crews

>>63898073
Low-frequency radars should be able to tell you where a B-2 with a few miles of error. This should be able to get an ARH missile close enough for it to get its own lock and finish the job. You might even be able to do this to a limited extent with SARH missiles: the transmitter will still be on the ground but at least the receiver will be in the air

>>63893220
>patriots have been getting destroyed by iskander
wat

>>63892006 (OP)
they were clearly just fucking lying. That's all there is to it. They are all just the shittiest soviet tech they had and they just kept them around. f-4s probably get shot down them though.

>>63892142
French is the worst of the lot in terms of bang-for-buck