Okay so what is the deal with EU intelligence agencies warning about Russia attacking NATO in a few years?
Sure Russia might have better drones and more men overall but at this point the war has burned through so much of their equipment that they will not recover for a long time. If they are running out of tanks, how can they threaten an attack a few years from now on?

I'm thinking that the states and media in Europe are slowly trying to acclimate the people to higher military spending (and eventual social cuts that it entails) because they still refuse to confront the reality that they are stuck between roostering for the US and making the painful political reforms and sovereignty sacrifices for an effective EU-level defense not dependent on the US.

>>63903997 (OP)
>russia might have better drones
lol
>and more men overall
not even that lol
other than that it's exactly as you said.
unironically a more competent russia not fucking up would have gotten the ball rolling a lot faster, now we basically have to pretend that russia could totally do another retard rush on another european country to justify immediate action and get normalfags to understand that getting more independent militarily from the US is not optional.

>Okay so what is the deal with EU intelligence agencies warning about Russia attacking NATO in a few years?
If you read the reports it isn't
>"OMG 6 MILLION ZIGGERS ARE PUSHING THE FULDA GAP"
Rather it is more along the lines of
>"Ok we think they'll try someing covert, but more serious than cutting undersea cables, and agitate in the Baltics to potentially excuse a "police action" to "control the boarder situation" for "oppressed Russian speakers".
ie. A repeat of DNR/LNR nonsense is what they're worried about, but localized to something like Narva.

If there were a ceasefire in Ukraine today, yeah, Russia probably would do something like that in a few years. Not surprising.

Even Trump "gets it" at this point.

Russia would get absolutely fucking assblasted if they attacked neato. They'd lose every single refinery, harbor, airfield, Kalinigrad, bakery, hospital, rape center and lada factory in the first week.

>>63903997 (OP)
>so what is the deal with EU intelligence agencies warning about Russia attacking NATO in a few years?
Vaccinating against disinfo, basically doing their job to counter enemy psyops by preseeding defensive memes that will prep the immune system when confronted with enemy propaganda.

>>63904069
true but every human life that gets lost due to ziggers is a tragedy and these mongol rape babies will try to attack anyway.this why europe needs to be ready

It's standard russian behavior since 1000 years ago. Others changed, they didn't

>>63903997 (OP)
for how shitty the russian army is, the 30 small euro armies are even worse. plus the populace is largely neutered, patriotism is seen as bad and nazi, a lot of young europeans are immigrants with little connection to the country and tons of euro politicians have been on the russian paylist and want to get on that list again. then you have traitors like hungary, slovakia, possibly austria and maybe even bulgaria and romania turning to russia. even germany is compromised with their right wing and the left wing party being russia-friendly.

so tldr a lot of euro countries will not put up much resistance and then the usa might opt out again. trump will say if they dont fight for themselves why should we fight for them? and thats it, europe is wide open.

>>63903997 (OP)
>Country that is getting beaten to death by a smaller army composed mainly of volksturm armed with older versions of their own equipment
>Is going to attack the most powerful military alliance in the history of man
I doubt it.

You have to understand that the Russian decision makers are not playing with a full deck of cards. Invading Ukraine in the first place was idiotic, and turned out to be even dumber than people thought it would be. "Thats retarded, they would never do that" is not an argument you can use when forcasting Russia.

>>63904091
>30 small euro armies are even worse
you're delusional

>>63904093
the ukrainian army is probably the best equipped army in europe right now.

A lot of Euro militaries have a few shiny toys but(t) fuck all in terms of stores. Remember back in 2011, when a couple weeks of bombing Libya caused the bongs and the frogs to run out of ordnance.
Building proper supplies takes a shitload of money. Euro military chiefs are pushing the retarded politicians to remove military spending from the Stasi Angie-imposed spending/deficit limits.

>>63904108
Lol no.

The only viable strategy for an unstable/unpopular autocratic regime is constant outward aggression to justify its antisocial policies and present a veneer of legitimacy. Russia will never "invade the EU" like the Germans did, but it will continually provoke minor hot spots and take incl4ment actions against smaller, weaker targets of opprtunity, including sabotage and fomenting civil unrest with provocateurs and undercover agents, until the regime has fallen.
this is science.

>>63904102
>"Thats retarded, they would never do that" is not an argument you can use when forcasting Russia.
This. Take the dumbest, marshmallow experiment-failing, future engineer from Chi-raq, make him about twice as retarded, and you'll get close to the level of retardation exhibited by vatniks.

They seem most likely to try weird operations and pretend it didn't happen. Maybe frogmen with USV blowing something up. The Baltic countries work on their borders with all sort of mine and obstacle, perhaps novel ones too, should be enough to make conventional, undeniable operations suicidal.

>>63904108
no lol
that's a russian and thirdie coping mechanism to deal with the fact that russia's in a stalemate with ukraine and some additional monetary support and equipment donations.
again:
THEY
HAVE
NO
COUNTER
TO
A
WESTERN
AIRFORCE
they would lose air superiority quickly and get pummeled.
they would also lose on the ground due to less accurate fires, far worse intel, and less independence at lower tactical levels of decisionmaking.
i know this is gonna piss a lot of people off, but a ukrainian infantryman who's been a veteran of this war for 1 or 2 years is still much less well trained than the average guy in most of the european armies, who have had years to do complex large scale training simulations that involve actual maneuver warfare and not sitting in a trench. real life is not a game, you don't magically gain xp points just for being in a war and rank up.

>>63903997 (OP)
it probably wouldn't be the most competent attack, but it could happen in theory, so it's better to prepare as if the russian army is taking notes and learning from experiences in ukraine. russian generals are under great pressure to lie to their boss and pretend that they could conquer europe at any time if they chose to as well, making it a chimpout a possibility when the man they're lying to actually believes them

also
>roostering
this really doesn't mean shit in english dude

>>63904106
>>63904112
compare the slovakian, hungarian, lithuanian, czech, moldovian, austrian etc. army with the ukrainian and russian army. they get completely dwarfed.

>>63903997 (OP)
They have to somehow sell the billions of euros that are going to be wasted on overpriced wunderwaffe to the taxpayer cattle.

>>63904091
point taken but i think the assessment of russia retard rushing ukraine from 2022 to now is even a positive statement

russia had literally no excuse not to annihilate ukraine and their ongoing operations arent any better than a wet fart, their army is filled with old men and goons, they have no real navy anymore if they ever did to start with, even if they did start shit in the baltics i really doubt they would be able to definitively occupy anything

they are a death cult with no real future

>>63904141
>they get completely dwarfed
individually, sure.
>wunderwaffe
that's more of a thirdie thing

>>63904135
only america has a WESTERN AIRFORCE, the balts dont even have jets. the romanians are flying mig21s. nobody in east europe has himars, cruise missiles, ballistic missiles or even just an air defense that is worth something. they didnt have much of that in the first place and gave most of it to ukraine. the only one in east europe that i would trust to actually fight the russians would be the poles, czechs, romanians. everybody else wouldnt put up much resistance and russians would just bribe their politicians anyway to sabotage the resistance even further.

>>63904140
>so it's better to prepare as if the russian army is taking notes and learning from experiences in ukraine.

personally i am really wondering about this. i sincerely doubt it

>>63904147
Switchblade, Javelin Excalibur etc.
Btw have you ever wondered why have there been no HIMARS strikes in over a year. Ukraine was all so happy to film those and spam them everywhere, i wonder what might have changed?

>>63904152
>the romanians are flying mig21s
Not after the crash in March 2022. Their combat airforce is now composed entirely of 3rd hand F-16s bought on sale from various West EU countries. Sort of like their cars.
>nobody in east europe has himars
8th Field Arty Bde. Did training a year ago with US advisors.

>>63904135
And then the US cucks out as usual and you have NATO countries in Europe talking about protecting their own borders.

>>63904135
>i know this is gonna piss a lot of people off, but a ukrainian infantryman who's been a veteran of this war for 1 or 2 years is still much less well trained than the average guy in most of the european armies, who have had years to do complex large scale training simulations that involve actual maneuver warfare and not sitting in a trench. real life is not a game, you don't magically gain xp points just for being in a war and rank up.

i do agree with the gist of what you are saying but there is a large tradeoff when you are comparing someone who has proven that they capable of fighting and shooting at the enemy versus someone who has been essentially on welfare and at peace. there is also alot of what we practice in NATO that is simply doctrine and will change and morph when it goes into actual implementation. ukraine's army is really the only western army at the moment that is fulfilling its purpose in entirety. afghanistan/iraq armies were doing this to an extent but the proliferation of combat experiences and tasks is nothing like the state ukraine is, even at the height of iraq invasion.

>>63904158
none of those are wunderwaffe you simpleton

>comparing them to HIMARS
lol

>>63904152
>the romanians are flying mig21s.
Uhh ackshually we're flying 2nd hand f16s that would otherwise have been scrapped if not for the colonial puppet government in București paying 21mil$ a piece for these rust buckets from poortugal and norway.

>>63904152
>only america has a western airforce
no lol
>let's only talk about romanians and balts because anything else would hurt my argument
lol
>poles, czechs and romanians
those ones alone would absolutely demolish any russian attempt at invasion
>everybody else wouldn't put up much resistence
retard-kun, they'd be formed up with all the other troops from other countries present, we're not forming moldova into a single army group and sending them in alone.
>russians would just bribe their politicians anyway
didn't even work against ukraine except for literally one instance where it got them across a bridge they would then evacuate through later, wishful thinking at best.

>>63904180
HIMARS is the wunderest of waffes rendered totally useless by russian EW

>>63904158
>>63904158
>switchblade
not wunderwaffe, never touted as such
>javelin
not wunderwaffe, extremely good weapon used in numbers that absolutely annihalated russian armored columns and continues to do so.
>excalibur
used in decent numbers, was very effective until deliveries stopped, not wunderwaffe, never touted as such
>have you ever wondered why there have been no HIMARS strikes in over a year
there have been, maybe you're not very smart but just because you're not seeing them, doesn't mean they're not happening
>have you ever wondered why the sky is purple?
no, because it isn't.
>ukraine was all so happy to film those and spam them everywhere
ukrainians just film to do BDA and tally kills, russians very desperately want good video propaganda like ukraine does, and whenever they do get a good video they spam it endlessly over and over again, even years later.
one side is showing more videos because they have more to show, because they're killing more things, which corroborates the well known fact that ukraine enjoys a very favourable attritional ratio against russia.

the fact that you tried to insinuate HIMARS is a wunderwaffe means you're either retarded, in bad faith, or just don't actually understand what wunderwaffe means.

>>63904141
Austria is not even part of NATO you know nothing mongoloid.

>>63904200
>wunderest of waffes
confirmed retard
>totally useless by russian EW
it was certainly made a bit less deadly due to it's somewhat larger CEP, but it's still continuing to blow zigger heads off regardless
i'm about 70% certain you're a seething zigger who doesn't like the fact that it's mostly delusional thirdie countries that foster wunderwaffen, and the west doesn't engage in that behaviour much.

>>63904190
The gov't bought 32 ex-NorAF F-16s for 388 million yurobux. That comes out at just a bit over 12 million per plane. There are a dozen shitty corpo puddlejumpers which cost way more. RoGov is a retarded shithole full of grifters, but the blind fucking squirrel sometimes does find the nut.

>>63903997 (OP)
>Okay so what is the deal with EU intelligence agencies warning about Russia attacking NATO in a few years?
Well, it is obvious trajectory where russian society is currently going. They are currently basically brainwashing the next generation of kids as nationalist soldiers, while the country itself is becoming increasingly isolated from the rest of the world and tyrannical. It is a fucked up situation, and intelligence agencies know it.
>Sure Russia might have better drones and more men overall
Nah, even without US assistance EU has easily more and better of both, problem being that it is fragmented and difficult to utilize effectively.
>they will not recover for a long time
That depends. They still have natural resources they can turn into money, and Chinese production capacity to turn that money into weapons, especially after Ukraine war ends and the West loses an excuse to impose sanctions against china for rearming russia. That is without mentioning that USA also has nasty tendency to fund their own potential enemies.
>I'm thinking that the states and media in Europe are slowly trying to acclimate the people to higher military spending
Sure.

>>63904201
Yeah okay delusional buddy

>>63904223
>no arguments left
>just seething
lol, so i was correct.

>>63904212
>it's still continuing to blow zigger heads off regardless
May we see it?

>>63903997 (OP)
They will attack and bet that Europe will not go to war by the Baltics
And they might be rigth

>>63904200
EW sure helped the 2S7 here

vid is from 7 days ago btw

European MIC knows that the bumfight is winding down and that Russia has proven to be a paper bear, so they have to keep the fear mongering going or risk losing their shiny new budgets.

>>63904192
>>russians would just bribe their politicians anyway
>didn't even work against ukraine
how do you think half of europe ended up being reliant on russian natural gas? that was a glowie operation with thousands of politcians and administrators getting bribed and coerced. why do so many countries in europe have a party that sucks russian cock? money money money.

https://warsawinstitute.org/follow-petro-roubles-european-officials-go-russian-business/

>>63904223
Your concession is accepted and your defeat noted.

>>63904239
you can look at any of the telegrams that regularly post ziggers getting dunked on.
>b-but it's happening less than before
sure, nobody argued otherwise
still a highly effective weapon used in large dosage which fits literally zero of the descriptions of the word wunderwaffe.
i can tell by how hard you're fighting this that this is a particular painpoint for you.
do you not like it when thirdie stuff is called wunderwaffen?

>>63904127
>incl4ment actions
This perfectly describes how /pol/ was subverted.

>>63904239
see >>63904244 you can stop seething now, i know that wunderwaffe is a word you don't like and desperately want to project onto the west, but you're being a bit too transparent.

>>63904249
A lot of young folks don't know about this shit.
And they especially don't know how the Russian state apparatus stole the dozens of billions of dollars in Western economic aid, back in the early-90s, when the average Russian was literally freezing to death (hence the modern-day aghitprop about West Europeans freezing), to keep their intel network afloat. It was something which got quickly submerged, once Western politicians found out they got played for fools, and the Cold War didn't actually end.

>>63904153
i mean i think some russians are taking notes, but they're not the kind that are actually going to result in actual improvements and refinements of their doctrine and planning. i think it's more of the 'here's how i keep my ass off the front line' kind of notes.

>>63904244
inb4 no aftermath, pion returned to base on its own power

>>63904276
everything i read about the whole organization of the russian army today suggests it is a doomed one, it is simply institutionally unwell and there is no period where they are taken out of operation and fixed

putin simply rides it into the dirt and farts on it, it is extremely sad to see

>>63904141
You said best in Europe. So the line of comparison is with Germany, France, UK, Spain, Italy, Greece etc.

Ukraine has some nice toys but they are not in the same realm as the above as most have modern full-spectrum capabilities.

>>63904296
do the ukies even still get himars missiles or has trump stopped that too?

just because it's a dumb idea doesn't mean they wouldn't do it. They might convince themselves their experience in Ukraine means they can now blyatskrieg a baltic country before others mobilize a response the next time a right wing party wins in a major European country.

>>63904158
HIMARS are up and running, what do you mean, Rajesh? Last week a convoy got turned into nutella. Do you actually believe the "HIMARS is jammed the HATO is over" bullshit? The best Ziggeria ever managed to do to HIMARS is lower its accuracy by UP TO 15m if under heavy jamming. Which, let's be honest, this thing can take a football field, nobody gives a shit whether Ivan would get a headshot by the main body or the balls.
Jesus, you browns...

>>63904300
only france and maybe uk. the rest is has beens and largely defunded paper tigers. germany doesnt even have atacms and their only cruise missile is taurus, which is no longer produced and of the 700 they have only 70 are actually combat ready. no stealth aircraft, no stealth bombers, no glide bombs, hardly any artillery, patriots and himars largely gifted to ukraine with no replacement. same with iris. almost no drones. an ifv that has been in development hell for 30 years and mbt that gets wrecked by fpv drones and is a turret tosser, no electornic warfare whatsoever, no jammers, no protection against operation spider web like attacks and a people that are ultrapacifist and their youth is more loyal to erdogan than merz. europe is a total shitshow defense wise.

>>63904342
>half of the post is literal fanfic
kinda invalidates the other half too, don't slip in bullshit.

>>63904314
they might wait for china to strike taiwan or turkey to strike greece. america will be distracted and europe caught in a 2 fronts war and then they will have their chance to strike.

>>63903997 (OP)
At some point, someone in russia will do something about the crazy old uncle

>>63904152
Nordics are coordinating their militaries and do have a sizable air force between them.
https://www.defensenews.com/global/europe/2023/03/24/nordic-countries-move-toward-linking-their-air-forces-250-planes/

>>63904135
Why are you presuming western air force will even be in theather

>>63904297
part of the problem is the culture they directly imported to the military, there were attempts to try and undo the damage prison culture did to the military, but when they started recruiting directly from prisons, and merged wagner in(who mostly recruited from prisons), they fucked the whole thing. you'd need to do a deep clean top to bottom, but you can't do that in an active war, and it's not effective until you clean it up. it's a catch-22.

>>63904360
Dis nigga is pretty smart in not letting any actually young guy get anywhere near power. All his inner circle ballwashers are 65+. The kind of people who think more about their prostates impeding their pissing, instead of car bombs, poisons, or tripping and falling into a passing bullet. They don't want to rock the boat, because they'll fall out of it alongside him.

>>63903997 (OP)
>what is the deal with EU intelligence agencies warning about Russia attacking NATO in a few years?
Because even tho russia is weakened and will eventually die, it still has the will, the means and the time to do some pretty big damage
A good chunk of the russian leadership and populace is delusional and/or apathetic to try something even more retarded than the invasion of Ukraine on another country
russia isn't an existential threat to Europe anymore (has it ever been?), but they can still very much be enough of a painful nuisance to justify the suspicion and preparations
If they ever feel like they have an opportunity, they'll try something again. It'll be retarded, but they are retards

>>63904152
Balts will be fighting them tooth and nail with whatever they have tard. They dont have a choice, it's either that or complete genocide. With their reserve armies they have enough bodies for their terrain, but they need air support from poles, swedes and finns

>>63904376
>Nordics
arent europes weak spot. the weak spots are slovakia, hungary, moldovia, romania, serbia, austria, bulgaria for their political leanings and the balts for their isolated position.

>>63904207
>Austria is not even part of NATO
that makes it even worse, nobody is obligated to defend them, if russia does a little green men coup there and turns it into a puppet, nato isnt obligated to do anything about it. and austria has control over the trade and transport between italy and germany, basically the russians would be able to split europe in half.

>>63904091
Posts like this worked before 2022

>>63904342
https://theaviationist.com/2025/03/26/germany-doubles-down-f-35-procurement/

Even Romania has stealth aircraft on order... You have absolutely no idea of the industrial might of Germany on its own. Not even counting the carrier strike groups and ballistic missile submarines lurking around Europe. Lest we forget France and their schizo nuclear policy of nuke first warn later.
Your psychosis is truly RIA novosty-tier.
If you ziggers were to attack, you are not gonna be facing hand-me-downs in a ground war, you would be facing an actual high-tech war with whatever remnants of USSR stocks you got lying around. Provided burgerland doesn't lend any help, things on their own are looking like a country-shattering disaster. If help is provided, it would be a 17-hour flight to Kremlin.

>>63903997 (OP)
>Okay so what is the deal with EU intelligence agencies warning about Russia attacking NATO in a few years?
The Vatniks already staged a number of sabotage acts and assassinations inside NATO member states.

>>63904399
because they're fighting against western armies, perhaps?
i don't understand the point of this post, do you not understand that there are currently already european F35's patrolling the border near russia?

>>63904360
Nah he'll be at the helm till natural death

>>63904425
>weak spot
is a retarded turn of phrase since all european armies will all be basing troops along the border with russia
>no you see we'll attack this european country and they'll only have their army and nothing else
not how NATO works.

>>63904425
I don't see how nordics not being a weak spot makes them less relevant for defending baltics using among other things their WESTERN AIRFORCE.
>Austria
Nigga Putin can barely supply troops 50km away from the Russian border. How the fuck is he going to supply an armed rebellion in NATO surrounded Austria?

>>63904465
It was real in his head. On every level except physical.

>>63904360
Ziggers won't do shit to their beloved tzar. Once a cattle, always a cattle.

If anybody is going to successfully ack the real monke, it's going to be ukranians. Only thing that can break the stalemate as the new king shit is going to have his hands full securing the state assets for his relatives, family and friends. He would want a cease fire asap in exchange for lifting the sanctions. as the goal is to leech off the host, not break it in some pointless grinds trying to resurrect dead and forgotten empires.

The thing is that Russia wants to attack a NATO country but doesn't want a war with NATO. The whole plan is that they attack some remote uninmportant part of NATO like the Åland islands, Gotland islands, small part of Estonia or whatever and then lay claim on it. Unless if NATO reacts with actual unity and lethal force it de facto means the dissolution of NATO after which Russia can wage actual large scale wars uncontested.

>>63904481
>russia will magically take gotland islands and then everyone will magically not do anything about it
this is the kind of wishful thinking i expect ziggers to have, i hope they try it.

>>63904102
>Russia decision makers
Figure they work on the simple principle of seeing something they want then going GIBSMEDAT

>>63904492
Still waiting on Dollar Tree D-day into Odessa.
Can almost picture Russia sailing assault ships into NATO Sea towards Gotland. With every single submarine around laughing their assess off.

>>63903997 (OP)
The point is that Russia wants to undermine the security guarantee of NATO membership, via an endless tide of slowly escalating micro aggressions. Everything will continue to be plausibly deniable for a while, like the undersea cables stuff and other "na na na we're not touching you bullshit" to avoid providing a crystal clear justification for a combined response. They will use sabotage and every deceptive option at their disposal to attack and antagonize NATO members while denying everything and using the threat of nuclear retaliation to keep the threat of a full scale Article 5 response at bay.

The objective is to make the public and politicians of these democratic NATO nations lose confidence in the efficacy of NATO as a deterrent against Russian aggression, so they can sow disunity and attack the weaker members individually without a collective thrashing.

They still believe their nukes provide an immunity against large scale military retaliation by NATO powers within Russian borders and for its still working.

Just because NATO has the capability to do as >>63904069 says even with strictly conventional weapons doesn't mean they have the will, and that's what this is all about. Everyone is too afraid of a Russian nuclear chimpout and continues the naive attempts at appeasement when only total disarmament of the Russian state will solve the problem.

>>63904360
Putin isn't a person. He is a talisman. Perceived as having single-highhandedly stopped the troubles of the 1990s. He did not, of course, as we know western firms for oil and gas exploration and servicing did.

Russian do not know that. Or at least pretend not to. Either way he will die of natural causes and nothing else.
He successor, however, may not be so fortunate.

>>63904506
>slowly escalating micro aggressions
Except now everyone became paranoid and jumpy, as an Europoor I can confirm. Now these microagressions are stepping into a minefield, especially with the prospect of kicking Russia while it's down.
NATO in Europe has never been more united than now since the 70s-80s. Thanks to Putin.
Nobody believes in appeasement anymore. Poland on its own is probably having wet dreams of taking Minsk and Kaliningrad should a chimpout begin.
Most Russian nukes no longer work, and their delivery systems seem to be more inclined to head back home and take a nap instead. Or turn the silo into a 150m wide crater. And Russia knows this. The dog can bark only for so long. Every single TEL, every single silo, and likely the nuke subs, are all under watch. And we all saw that the strategic planes are not really a force in the modern days. They are no B-2s
Russia is painfully aware of this. Of all of it.
NATO is jumpy, angry, and paranoid. All of what Putin was trying to prevent. But now we have a credible monke threat, so the alliance has a renewed purpose.

>>63904465
>How the fuck is he going to supply an armed rebellion in NATO surrounded Austria?
when putin wins in ukraine, he is right at the hungarian border. when hungary caves in, he is at the austrian border. then austrias russia loving party will cry some bullshit about a stolen election or a coup attempt by the opposition or something and ask russia for help. and then its done. basically if ukraine falls these scenarios that now seem outlandish become more and more realistic and possible. i personally think the biggest threat isnt even russias military, its the russian glowies. the fsb is 400.000 people strong and loaded with oil money that the euro politicians will happily take, as they have done in the past. expect a lot of russia friendly parties and candidates asking for russian help and russia being very willing to help.

>>63904425
>if russia does a little green men coup there
That sounds unlikely, considering the lack of land borders and the role a neutral Vienna plays as a staging ground of Russian intelligence operations inside NATO.

>>63904479
>If anybody is going to successfully ack the real monke, it's going to be ukranians.
Problem is, wectoids are blocking ukies from performing the ultimate kino, because they are skeert somebody in the zigger gov is going to break the tapu regarding n00king, if king monke gets got. Which would cause no end of headaches, because they would have to respond in kind, which they really don't want to (maybe except the frogs).

>>63904342
>NAFO Ukraine fanatics are complete retards with zigger-tier takes and HYPE
Sad!

Cope as you may, the Ukrainian military is wholly incomparable to Western nations. They have great soldiers and some modern *units* but as a military (army, navy, air force etc) they are more than a generation behind the big dogs in NATO like the UK or France, Poland, Germany, Italy and (to a degree) Spain.

>>63904560
>when putin wins in ukraine
Found the problem with that strategy.
Also, Orban is on his way out next elections, Hungary is now EU's poorest country because of that retard.
Vid related, what vatniks actually thought would happen, mirroring the fanfic about Ukraine and Hungary. Up until Ukraine didn't surrender in three days.

>>63904604
>Hungary is now EU's poorest country because of that retard
Honestly, deserved. Fuck H*ngarians. Hope they and starve and kill each other en masse.

>>63904465
>How the fuck is he going to supply an armed rebellion in NATO surrounded Austria?
Fairly sure anon is going off of the fact that all of ex-Austria Hungary is pro-Russian.
Some project a better veneer of nonretardation since they keep the rural majority (which sadly includes most army/police recruits, people with actual power over others) off the cameras like the Czech Republic, but all of these places would open their borders willingly if things got really heated and they'd be choosing between shedding some blood for the alliance or rolling over and spreading their legs for Russian troops.

>>63904623
>Honestly, deserved. Fuck H*ngarians. Hope they and starve and kill each other en masse.
What the fuck

>>63904623
*all starve
Either way, looking forward to hungarians killing their women after raping them and uploading it to porn sites to make a buck.

>>63904632
I hate them.
Not as much as serbs and russians but I hate them.

>>63904633
>Either way, looking forward to hungarians killing their women after raping them and uploading it to porn sites to make a buck.
someone's a little upset

>>63904639
Seek help ya fuckin weirdo.

>>63904546
Honestly I'm glad to hear this anon. I'm rooting for you, and I know I'm not the only American who feels this way.

Over the last two years I've spent time in Italy, Switzerland, France, Germany, Belgium, Netherlands, Luxembourg, Austria, Czech Republic, and Poland and I found each country beautiful and charming it it's own ways. I have high hopes for European unity and see your people and nations as the closest culturally and morally to my own values.

Godspeed

>>63904665
Thanks burgerbro. It's actually shocking how a monke's three day special military operation might unite the continent so much as to spook even Germany to drop a fucking trillion in defense spending. Waiting on them to rename the Bundeswehr to Wehrmacht any day now.

>Russia will attack any day/week/month/year now
>regardless of the fact that they're suffering from sanctions for over a decade
>regardless of the fact that they're bogged down in the Ukraine, fighting a second rate army
>regardless of the fact that they've run out of all their best tanks and all of their tank warehouses are empty
>regardless of the fact that their air force is way smaller than ours, gradually running out of resources and is getting increasingly smaller
>regardless of the fact that their fleet has never been the focus of the Russian military, has never been overhauled, is in disrepair and tiny compared to ours
>regardless of the fact that the Russian army does not have the equipment and material, is run by incompetent and corrupt nepotists, using outdated strategies and tactics, with all of the prewar soldiers becoming a casualty
>regardless of the fact that the Russian nuclear program is in disrepair and at single digit strength
>regardless of the fact that literally everyone in the Russian chain of command knows it's retarded
>regardless of the fact that the only one that benefits from this is the CIA and DoD looking for a bigger budget and the lobbyists of the military-industrial complex

>>63904560
>when putin wins in ukraine
if, big if at that lol
the idea here is that after western intelligence had it's big wake up moment, because of russia chimping out, they're somehow still going to let ALL of that past them, yes very convincing.
if russia tries to start shit in hungary, there WILL be military intervention, but this is pointless as they will literally never beat ukraine, at very very worst case scenario they just get stopped at the dnepr, getting further than that is essentially impossible at this point.

>>63904670
All that giganigga retard had to do back in February 2022 was LITERALLY NOTHING. LITERALLY FUCKING NOTHING. If he had withdrawn his troops after their little trick with blood to the frontlines, he would've been able to clown on the entirety of the West, sowing permanent disunity among HATO. Meaning he would've had a real chance to roll over Ukraine in 2024, if he went for a repeat performance.
Instead, he got spooked like an utter moron by his post-rona domestic approval numbers, and decided to go for the classic "short, victorious war". Leading to the current shitshow.

>>63904665
thanks burgeranon, wishing you guys best of luck in your own political squabbles as well.

>>63904799
Maybe his yes-men just told him their version of yeahposting the moment he mused about a second invasion, and he misunderstood what a yeahpost is. Or everyone including him legit thought that Ukraine would fold in days.

>>63904585
Tough shit. They will just going to have to cope with it. Just like they coped when moskva was acked, or the bombers or the zegroid general with the electric scooters.

What could they even do in retaliation? Abandon ukraine? That would be suicide with their audience as supporting ukraine is popular and nobody of the wider populace is going to mourn the seething monke manlet. With the exception of a certain orange asset that is. Macron would congratulate ukranians in secret and the like of merz and brit pm would remain neutral at the very least

>>63903997 (OP)
>2 more weeks

>>63904817
yeah

That would be too kino to ever actually happen. I dream of fields of dead French and Russians as far as the eye can see.

>>63904786
>>63903997 (OP)
Russia is gay and retarded, but the Baltics are really, really small countries with tiny militaries. Russia would absolutely take them even with their tardedness if the EU/NATO didn't get involved.
And if they think they can get away with it/intimidate/co-opt Trump into sitting it out (a very real possibility) then they absolutely will try it.

>>63903997 (OP)
>more men overall

Russia has like 140 million?

The EU zone has about half a billion.

>>63904876
if russia had 140 million men they'd be extinct within a generation. unless they can do mitosis.

>>63904876
>Russia has like 140 million?
That's their total population.

>>63904342
>only france and maybe uk.
France + UK would suffice.
France or UK + the Nordics would suffice.
If either France or the UK went against Russian, they would not go alone.

>>63904918
Not to mention we are actually looking at air superiority, something that neither side managed to achieve in three years and counting. Whatever is left of Russia's ancient aviation would be facing hundreds, if not thousands, of competent planes, stealth fighters, at least four carrier groups... This is not even a contest, this is a suicide attack.

>>63904425
Dude, if russia attacks austria NATO will get involved no matter whether it's obligated or not. Matter of fact, the EU contains its own mutual defence clause so most of european NATO would in fact be obligated.

>>63904928
At this point how could the Russians even use their localized numerical superiority? What "microaggression" can these pull off without just committing themselves on the ground? It'll inevitably escalate into an actual war.

>>63904546
>Poland on its own is probably having wet dreams of taking Minsk and Kaliningrad should a chimpout begin

No. Russians just need to stay in Russia until they unfuck themselves (which will take a century at minimum), that's what this world needs instead of more land grabbing

>>63904604
>Hungary is now EU's poorest country because of that retard.
No they aren't. You might be retarded if you really believe this.

>>63904822
>What could they even do in retaliation? Abandon ukraine?
I didn't make my point clear. Literally nobody would care (except for Xinnie the Pooh, his orange counterpart, and The Fat Un) if monke got got. Everybody else would breathe a badly-needed sigh of relief.
The real problem is if they try, and fail. Then all hell breaks loose, and there's no more brakes on the train.

>>63904786
The worst case scenario is actually the war going on for so long it bankrupts Russia
They might chimp out then and achieve nothing but a chimpout would still cause a lot of destruction

>>63904425
Please look at the map and tell me how exactly is Monke going to deliver military hardware to Russian minority in Austria.
Mind you these constitute whole 0,025% of total Austrian population.

>>63903997 (OP)
nice try vatnik, but you gave yourself away

>>63905022
Was it that "roostering"?

>>63904091
Ukraine was wide open too

>>63904425
> if russia does a little green men coup there and turns it into a puppet
"Green men coup" works only when 1)they already have a military presence in there 2)significant percent of local politicians/population eager to cooperate 3)disarray in government(of "we're not really sure who is actually in charge here" level) 4)everybody is scared shitless of provoking "le mighty russia" into a full-scale attack(so, additional requirement - you have to border russia), and advices you to not take any action - just look the other way and pretend its not happening.

>>63904988
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, Viktor.

>>63905054
This. It's absurd to think they can sneak in soldiers and tech in the heart of NATO and the Schengen area. If even a handful managed to sneak in, they are 40 minutes flight time away from Rammstein base in Germany. And generally in striking range of almost all NATO countries in Europe. Fuck, they are maybe even in Bulgaria's F-16 range. Maybe only Turkey will have hard time closing such a distance.
Did he think nobody would respond to such a threat if asked to, or just conduct a "special military operation" of denazification of the Russian forces regardless whether Austria wishes for it?
The Austrians are not that retarded in any case. Even as a hypothetical this scenario makes no sense.

>>63904670
His adventure has even caused the Irish State to consider defence seriously for the first time in its history (its going to be a long fucking road to generating any military capacity and has the possibility to derail at any general election) and is one of the few things I'm optimistic about for the two main parties. Small Regional Power by 2050

>>63905222
Fortress Evropa is rising. Instead of the world becoming multipolar (lol BRICS), NATO will have two strong cores.

>>63904817
>Maybe his yes-men just told him their version of yeahposting
The meeting was (according to Larov); Putin, Larov, Shoigu and Gerasimov.
Larov said he was outvoted.

>>63905222
>caused the Irish State to consider defence seriously
Imagine world events causing people of whiskey to become car bombers on par with ambassadors of the religion of peace.

The warnings are because it will be very easy for Russia to take Estonia, which is in NATO, and you're not going to die for it. So you won't and your alliance is going to look like a bunch of fucking clowns because they just didn't come to the aid of an ally. So then the whole thing will come apart and there will be more special operations in east europe.

This is why they are sounding the horn, they want to somehow prevent it but they just can't. Want to make sure they can't take Estonia?

Just enlist then. Something tells me you won't though.

>>63905229
>Fortress Evropa is rising.
I'm for it.
https://youtu.be/1VjFYm7ZNKk

>>63903997 (OP)

He is saying that Putin may take the Baltics because they are easy prey and, if the far right wins in countries like France and Germany, Europe may lack the will or the balls to do anything about it.

>>63903997 (OP)
Right now Europe is not fully prepped for war while Russia has a big standing army and as much heavy hardware as it'll ever have again for two generations. The danger point isn't 15 years from now, or right now, it's the mid-term of 4-5 years.

>>63903997 (OP)
>more men overall
They have 140m people whereas the EU has 440m, pozziya's are all old as fuck, all the professional soldiers are thoroughly CUBE'd and all the expendable young ziggers have been harvested for the same fate

>>63905405
Rajeet who just got arrested and put on a counter terror watch list for breaking into RAF Brize Norton is more likely to bomb big men than comply with conscription in the event of all out war. NATO must rely on force multipliers because the civilian population of Western Europe will eat itself in the event of war.

>>63905367
Holy shit a 2142 cosplay of the EU forces, thanks for that, had no idea cosplayers could be this based. The Panasian Coalition will freeze.
>>63905383
>as much heavy hardware as it'll ever have again for two generations
Bro, they lost tens of thousands of tanks, artillery pieces, and ungodly amount of assorted vehicles, their economy is at 40% GDP towards the war chest. They are running dry in both materiel and money.

There is this autistic youtuber, Covert Cabal.
https://www.youtube.com/@CovertCabal
The madlad actually goes about counting hardware in their bases by purchasing satellite flyby photos. You have no idea how bad things really are.

>>63905383
> as much heavy hardware as it'll ever have again for two generations.
Did you send this in 2022

>>63905429
Exactly, do you not understand English. Russia is not going to have more tanks in the future much less the farther future. If they want to do something with all those mobiks which isn't let them come home, they have an option.

seriously why can't NATO just assassinate Putin? If they fear him so much and consider his individual ambitions as the deciding factor, then just do Mossad style operation and get over this drama. I'm sure CIA could pull off something like this if they really wanted.

>>63905470
It would just be a rallying cry for the Russians. Some other monke would take over.

>>63905457
Disregard that, I suck cocks. My reading comprehension suddenly dropped from Europoor to streetshitter level, apologies.

>>63905470
World leaders don’t attack other world leaders. Sets a bad precedent.
The only exception I can think of to this was the CIA’s 6 trillion loony tunes tier assassination attempts on Fidel Castro.

>>63905470
I am almost certain that in case of a chimpout, there are already plans and deep plants for just that purpose - decapitation of the regime.
Even monke tried that in the opening hours of the invasion. From which we got plenty of kino, thanks Vlad.

If anyone were to take him out now, the power would stabilize around the next monke in time of his own attempt at Peter The Great 2.0 The key is to take him out mid-stride, during the initial attacks, where no plan survives the first contact with the enemy, and they would not be anyone prepared to draft the second plan.

>>63905485
Israel proved that taking out the leadership is putting your enemy 1-2 steps closer to surrender, And that's against opponents much more psychotic than the Russians ideologically speaking.

I think NATO isn't taking that path because it signal that targeting leadership is fair game, thus possibly self-sacrificing decision for the politicians. In other words, NATO leaders are pussies.

>>63905519
>World leaders don’t attack other world leaders. Sets a bad precedent.
Putin tried to kill Zelensky multiple times.

>>63905470
Only Ukraine(and Russia) benefits from a dead Putin. That guy alone did more damage to Russia's power than the fall of the Soviet Union.

>>63905544
Actually, you might be correct on this point, him being alive does a lot more damage.
Now, assassinating Kadirov, THIS would be a brutal meltdown. Chechens hate the Kadirovs, and the region is a separatist one, a new Chechen war especially if Russia is stuck in Ukraine would be crippling.

>>63905528
Zelensky isn't even the head of a regional power, him getting deposed or killed is the same as some middle-eastern or african leader getting popped as far as setting precedent goes. Putin is ostensibly the head of a world power, and the other heads of such states don't want it to become a thing where they're valid targets of assassination.

>>63905201
After the green men in Austria are gone, could we have it ba- I mean, could we integrate it into NATO as new German Bundesländer according to the wishes of the 1919 plebiscite?
Asking for a friend

>>63905561
Back to your old Lebensraum tricks, Hans? Fine, you can have them, but just this one time. Stop looking at Poland like that.

>>63905555
Fair point. Not sure whether Russia is even considered a world power anymore. Sure, they got nooks, but what else? Vassals to China in constant fear of bad ebil HATO and the Nips nipping their islands back. While their retarded leader listens to shamans and sootsayers, and reads about old prophecies of a dead Bulgarian mystic. This is some cargo cult shit.

>>63905589
The nips are never getting their islands back. China would jump on the precedent.

>>63905589
It was apparent when Iraq was the third strongest military in the world and got trashed in a matter of weeks that manpower and slavshit don't add up to more than a regional power.

>>63905633
China would likely jump eventually regardless, and the dog eaters have been building artificial islands and expanding control.

>>63905589
it's better to pretend they still are, else china and the norks could get ideas about moving borders around too with russia, and that raises the possibility of more wars of conquest, something the western world is hoping to pretend can't happen anymore(despite current events).

>>63903997 (OP)
Fear mongering for gibs

>>63904069
lmao
>russia attacks finland
>every single russian refinery is blown up with a long range strike, the economy tanks overnight and every single russian is jobless
>Eu announces they are now resettling russian refugees, for free
>send 'em to iran
>israel nukes them
this clown timeline will be redeemed yet!

>>63905568
>Back to your old Lebensraum tricks, Hans?
No, and we have to re-Europeanize our cities first.
>Stop looking at Poland like that.
The only thing I'm looking at in Poland are the cheap things I can buy there. Turrns out free trade and travel beats war.

>>63905681
>israel nukes them
The most common nationality in Israel after Israeli is Russian. Putin is Jewish, by blood. Putin's daughter married a Jew. He has Zionism awards from Israel. Israel has sent no aid to Ukraine. Israel told Ukraine to surrender to Russia. Israel did nothing even though Iran was helping Russia.

There is no way that Israel would nuke any Russians, for they are their chosen people, just like them.

>>63905555
I mean '''Ukrainians''' tried to kill UK's PM by fire bombing his shit.

>>63906063
You are mistaken. There is only one nationality that russians hate enough to nuke out of pure spite, and that is russians.

>>63906063
I remember there was a twitter post or something about somebody asking why Russia hadn't helped Iran by attacking Israel and Putin or somebody important said
>10% of the population of Israel is Russian why would we do that?
Or some shit. I can't find it though.

>>63906076
Why do Russians keep using Ukrainian passports for their glowie shit? It's like a giant red flag.

>>63904244
>ukraine flag with "deep state" watermark
Unintentional irony?

>>63906134
https://www.ynetnews.com/article/bywoxtn4ex
>Putin said on Friday during a news conference that the Kremlin “traditionally enjoys good and friendly relations with the Arab world. It has been said here that we must show a certain solidarity—and that is true. But in any case, every conflict is rather unique. I want to draw your attention to the fact that almost two million Russian speaking people live in Israel; it is almost a Russian‑speaking country today.”

>>63907375
Special denazification DLC when

>>63905331
>and you're not going to die for it
correct, russians are going to die instead, and fail to capture it, because NATO is defending it.
>t-this is why they are sounding the horn, t-they want to somehow prevent it but they just can't.
you're a demoralized retard.

>>63905419
>will eat itself in the event of war
you keep falling back on this wishful thinking but sorry fren, that's not gonna happen.

>>63904013
>not fucking up
In an alternate timeline Ukraine did not get any help from EU or US after 2014 and they got steamrolled in 2 weeks, as planned.

Now, that would have really scared NATO and the whole of Eastern Europe and put the EU MIC into actual full gear.

Fuck you russians for being so utterly incompetent that you don't feel like a threat anymore.

>>63904506
>The objective is to make the public and politicians of these democratic NATO nations lose confidence in the efficacy of NATO as a deterrent against Russian aggression, so they can sow disunity and attack the weaker members individually without a collective thrashing.
That's pretty stupid though, all it does is wake them up. If anything, Krasnov does a way better job at this.

>>63903997 (OP)
The point is to fracture NATO.
here's how they want it to play out.
1. They attack a small region of a nation like Estonia, pushing some bullshit claim of protecting Russian speakers.
2. They get their shit rocked, predictably. But they don't let up.
3. Article 5, some countries want to make it a full war, others are doing all they can to not join.
4. This creates distrust in NATO. Note that Article 5 DOESN'T MEAN everybody dog piles the aggressor. Some countries always shirk responsibility will drag their feet, Trump will actively question why we need to do anything. Hungary will be ziggers as usual.
6. Russia disengages. The day is saved!
But now everybody is shaken. A lot of NATO members didn't want to act to defend Estonia. What's the value of NATO? Why can't we have a united action? Why are Poland and Britain doing what they can while Spain and Germany are looking for excuses? Is America even an ally?
7. Members start leaving, as the alliance seems shaky.
8. Russia comes back in 30 years and steals back its Soviet clay.
I'm not saying this will happen, I'm saying this is the logic behind it.

>>63903997 (OP)
He's right, if Russia is successful in Ukraine, they will gain more resources, but they will also have to start a new war because now their entire economy is based on war, even if they have no hope to succeed. Its the same trap Hitler found himself in. If Russia is unsuccessful in Ukraine they basically collapse. But I doubt they invade a NATO country, they'll probably in Kazakhstan or a CSTO member. Vatniks of course will justify this wholeheartedly.

>>63904152
>russians would just bribe their politicians anyway to sabotage the resistance even further.

Good politicians stay bought. These guys aren't good politicians. Monke's head will spin when he realizes how little what he's bought is worth

>>63905331
Do it. I want you to fucking try it.

>>63903997 (OP)
Its not bullshit, the Russians want to expand the war and do a incursion into the Baltics to test NATO and see if they'll respond. They're betting that they wouldn't.

>>63908276
Spain and Germany have troops permanently stationed in the Blatics.
whatever probe the russians get up to they'd be involved
and even if they'd like to stay uninvolved they are EU members and shirking on their NATO duties also involve shirking on their EU duties.
EU integration is far, far to important to their economies to risk the EU collapsing.

>>63904080
This was a critical function of the Armatard meme. By convincing /k/ that Russian influence actors were all a singular Chris-Chan persona, it provided a persistent immune system against Russian influence on online spaces. It is critical that EU and UK intelligence services continue to provide oversight and threat mitigation on American websites where there may be a lack of fact checking resources due to the first amendment in US law.

>>63904425
You have a point...
Which is the reason why I advocate for Total Zigger Death!
Cobalt bombs over Mosquew and Pidorsgrad now! 1 or 100 million, it matters not, kill them all.

>>63903997 (OP)
How could Russia function of the Euros started sinking/seizing their shadow fleet tankers?

>>63909568
Russia would lose a good part of their income revenue, but its a bit of a legal mess to do so, due them being registered into various shitholes around the world, and the crew are generally indians or such. Not to mention that sinking tanker full of oil is quite an environment hazard.
So you need to catch the ships on the way to russia (which has been kinda happening due those tankers not having required insurances and/or having other issues, but those are enough only for delays)

>>63909474
I'm going to spew zigger propaganda purely to spite your totalitarian tendencies.

>>63910469
>implying you have not been doing that every day all day long

>>63909474
>morons attempt moron influence operations in a forum where people are educated on the subject matter
>this forum resident asshole concentration is102% with a 2 % margin of error
>a one-sided intellectual beating occurs
>morons being morons dont give up that easy
>it becomes a conga line of tardism
>Mocking these morons becomes so popular that some assholes pretend to be morons just to farm rage yous
>like batman countless copycats emerge
>this fat wannbe jack boot hallucinates a whole alternate reality head cannon
Go back.

>>63905229
>Fortress Evropa is rising. Instead of the world becoming multipolar

One is the result of the other.

Fascism is empire building being turned inwards. The reason central european states in the 20th century turned fascist is because all global land was claimed. They couldn't to traditional empire building. So they had to turn inwards and divide their country and neighboring countries into the "british" and into "india". This is why fascism always fails, it eats itself alive.

EU can't do neo empire building overseas again because the US has claimed a lot, and BRICS is fending off the rest.

EU is eating itself alive to stay alive, but it's assuring its death.

>>63910753
Lots of land in russia for divvying up

>>63910469
>>63910730
>crying that Russian influence op failed
Kek

>>63909564
>Rep. Bloodfeast sheds a single tear

>>63903997 (OP)
You know, I seem to remember a bunch of people poo-pooing the notion that Russia would attack Ukraine because the intelligence agencies were obvious lying to... I don't know, spread globohomo or something and turn all the frogs gay through a gay war with Russia.
Funny how the agencies turned out to be right, isn't it?

>>63904051
If he gets it, he should really do something about it.
If only the tsar knew!

>>63903997 (OP)
It's to scare their own people into supporting increased military spending and accept higher energy costs as permanent. Most people don't see the uncensored, daily Russian fuckups we see here.

>>63904273
A lot of them think that, somehow, the third world will save them from having to see things that annoy them on TV. The modern culture warriors are all-in on the third world to the point where they don't even want to try and fix the real issues, and only want to focus on strongmen solutions for cultural ones.

>>63904546
I sorely wish that the US could be involved in this NATO renaissance.

>>63904604
>Orban is out
I doubt it. He tickles the right cultural nodes to stay in power indefinitely no matter the economic damage.

>>63908334
Whatever he's done with Trump has stuck far longer than one would think it capable of.

>>63904069
The fear is that NATO members, Germany included (but mostly France and the USA), will try and work out a "deal" with Russia and throw the Baltics to the dogs.

>>63904546
>Except now everyone became paranoid and jumpy
Everyone? Eh, life in Finland is business as usual.
It's been funny to witness how Sweden and even finnish expats are in panic mode but Finland is taking necessary actions in a calm and collected manner.
I wish more people would learn from finnish preparedness and resistance to russian propaganda. Less hysteria and more pragmatism would do the world a lot of good.

They're too fucking scared to think logically for a moment; we've seen the pics of cardboard cartons inside of the packs on the outside of their tanks! And they're throwing people into the meat grinder who have no idea what's going on, and some of them were told that it was going to be a series of exercises. It has been 11 years since Russia has tried to take over Ukraine and they haven't been very successful w/ the exception of some cities. And I put emphasis on "some".

>>63911188
>Whatever he's done with Trump has stuck far longer than one would think it capable of.
A combo of literally owning him (Trump was 1.5 billion in debt at some point, and he got out of the hole with Russian money), plus videos of him applying secret sauce to a bunch of 14-y.o.s during the Crocus City inaugural orgy.

>>63904506
But is total zigger death truly the only solution?

>>63907501
Honestly this. Several generations of vidya and kino, wasted.

>>63910463
They should sink a couple of the empty ones (easy to tell by how they're sitting in the water, full ones are way lower) and claim they refused to stop when hailed. Basically do what the Russians have been doing thus far: manufacture a situation and see how the other side responds.

>>63903997 (OP)
I doubt they're gonna launch another SMO into a NATO country.
More likely they'll do another "short of war" attack. The line of what counts as war is so blurry these days. We already know that cutting undersea cables, burning down buildings, and diverting a plane to arrest a political opponent don't count as a declaration of war, so they'll likely try more to see what else they can get away with.

>>63909474
>It is critical that EU and UK intelligence services continue to provide oversight and threat mitigation on American websites
And that's why I'm shitposting on /k/ at work, boss.

>>63905201
Austria's also federalized, so the Cobra from the rest of the country will happily pile on whomever the Vatniks managed to buy off in Vienna.

>>63905561
Kek. If we tried, the German migrants in Austria would probably start an insurgency to prevent it.

>>63904604
>russian invasion of poland!
>*60km traffic jam*
At least they got one thing right.

>>63904135

Being bloodied in a war does give a nation staying power and a capacity to endure human suffering that westerners would blanche at. Can you imagine the millennial Twitter critters and zoomedtroons being told to go back to the trenches after losing a leg and receiving a wooden prosthetic?

>>63904051
>ie. A repeat of DNR/LNR nonsense is what they're worried about, but localized to something like Narva.

This. Estonia and Latvia have sizeable russian minorities which are in many cases not integrated, in the case of Estonia many dont even have citizenship. This gives perfect pretext for operations the USSR/Russia have been doing since Poland '39, intervening on behalf of Russian/Belorussian people 'in distress'. This is actually plausible and requires preparation. as the Baltics cannot possibly defend themselves in such a case, this has to be done under a NATO umbrella. As all eastern/central Europeans have a lot of skin in the game, they have major incentives to deter russian agression through regional military buildup. It's either massive conventional overmatch or the entire region will have to get nuclear, which creates a lot of new issues that make it less desireable than conventional expansion.


>If you read the reports it isn't
Most people do not read reports. They also do not listen to what people are saying.

If Russia defeats Ukraine one thing that's overlooked is their access to new soldiers to attack NATO with. If they force Ukrainians to walk into Poland, that accomplishes multiple things, one is that they'll get rid of many Ukrainians, who could be a problem if they are let live, another is that it allows NATO to pretend Russia isn't responsible, it's Ukraine, so they can avoid a direct conflict between Russia and NATO, formally it'll be between NATO and Ukraine instead. And using Ukrainians instead of Russians to attack also protects Russia from having to do more unpopular mobilizations inside Russia. And it could cause resentment among Ukrainians towards the west, they may think that with how NATO is killing them by the hundred thousands, maybe Russia isn't so bad after all and they could become more accepting of Russian annexation.

>>63903997 (OP)
They probably can't pull it off but they also couldn't pull off the kyiv rush so they're assuming Russia might act irrationally.

>If they are running out of tanks, how can they threaten an attack a few years from now on?
Easy. They are okay with losing a million of pidors. Europe isn't okay with losing even 10k of its people. Thus that million can even go on foot with small arms, being supported by bikes, scooters, donkey and assault sheds. While retards in say Bundeswehr have no ammo, have no concept on modern drone use, and the training is based on some 1960s soviet manuals. And while US is an unreliable ally who's more concerned about saving face and making some retarded deal.

Thus, russia doesn't need to capture everything all the way to the English channel, it would be physically impossible all things considered. It would be enough for russia to just bumrush the Baltics, even if that would case 40:1 losses for them, and cause a fait accompli before western countries, since "why die for Tallinn" and "ook-ook nook-nook" would be reproduced by every faggot running out of the woodwork. Nobody will engage in a land war to push the russians out. US cucks out, NATO is proven a paper tiger and the whole thing collapses, leaving individual countries exposed for further attacks. Which probably won't even happen because everyone will be so scared to death that they'll just go with "making a deal" with russia, turning part of Europe into various forms of Belarus or Hungary 2.0.

>>63907501
>Ukraine did not get any help from EU or US after 2014
MREs and tents isn't military help. Please cool it with the revisionism, before 2022 there was no major military aid for ukies.

>>63912120
that's delulu, if they attack the baltics they're going to get gigafucked by NATO
lotta people making the weird assumption that what was done for a non-nato ally is the same thing that will be done for a nato ally.
like, i believe that russians think this is a good idea to bank on and are retarded enough to try it, it just wouldn't work.

>>63905038
ukies had antibodies for russians in their immune system due to russians prematurely attacking them in 2014

>>63904135
>a ukrainian infantryman who's been a veteran of this war for 1 or 2 years is still much less well trained than the average guy in most of the european armies
Delusional shit. Even ukies sent for training into Europe mention how naive a ton of western training is. Like sure, you have good trench clearing training or specific elements like that. But there's no understanding of realities of modern battlefield where enemy has NVGs, thermals, drones and shit. Decades of not doing anything to running COIN pussified the armies.

>>63905367
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fX-icW7sctc

>>63912133
>delusional shit
it's true, sorry.
>how naive
naive for retarded sub-brigade size movements and trench war, sure.
that's not the kind of war that western armies fight
>b-but ukraine is in a trench war
correct, it's a consequence of circumstance.
this weird notion that we will be "forced" out of mobility warfare because we just will okay is silly.

>>63912138
Frankly speaking the only thing missing from the puzzle for EU armies is readiness. With more munitions, training and so on there's not much of a question that Russia will buckle in a fight between armies. Especially since they'd need to suddenly deprioritise Ukraine and spread out their entire frontline from Finland to Ukraine to take care of everything.
And Europe has its fair share of F-35s, which will be very useful, even if the US doesn't wanna help us maintain them, as long as they can crack the nut that is the Russian air defense. Something that's pretty much the only thing they're needed for.

>>63904354
He's still partially correct

>>63909564
>Pidorsgrad
bruh, it's pidorsburg

>>63912147
i agree with his sentiments that we are unprepared for drones, but i still think drone warfare is overstated mostly because of the lack of any real aerial contesting due to both side's shitty airforces, and the static lines making it easier to just fill the blank space between both lines with drones.

try sending a drone team against a western OPFOR, they're not going to be able to sit comfy in a building somewhere and shit out FPV drones, forces will be moving closer to them and airstrikes will be called on their position.

>>63904546
>Except now everyone became paranoid and jumpy
Not really. The main powers aren't close to russia and thus they use their power to cuck out the less pussified parties which are in fact closer to russia. E.g. how Germany and France stopped Poland from blockading Kaliningrad in 2022 (2023?) which would be legal and based on recently approved sanctions.

>>63912155
>has to pull out an example from 2022
wew
i agree there's still some pussying out here and there but on the whole everyone is pretty paranoid and jumpy now.

>>63904560
>when hungary caves in
It would need to cave in, Hungary is rules by a domestic Yanukovich 2.0, Hungary was almost guaranteed to be involved into the 2022 invasion, planning to move in and attack Ukraine from the western side when Kyiv would be taken under the guise of "we're protecting the local Hungarian minority and shit". Hence why recently ukies arrested some Hungarian glowies in the region.
Those retarded maps of dismantling ukies in between other countries that russians made since 2014 or earlier aren't just propaganda, they've literally approached other countries with that offer. Ex-president of Poland confirmed that in 2014 or 2015 IIRC.

>>63904604
>Also, Orban is on his way out next elections
What's stopping him from doing some election fraud?

>>63904918
>UK would suffice
How much does UK have? Like 50 tanks? Or less?

>>63905201
>This. It's absurd to think they can sneak in soldiers and tech in the heart of NATO and the Schengen area
Germany alone has 1+ million russian emigrants who'd live there for 20-30 years and are mostly pro-Z. Hence the recent military base attack.

>>63905201
>The Austrians are not that retarded in any case
Their former foreign minister emigrated to russia, stop coping.

>>63905681
>every single russian refinery is blown up with a long range strike
US will forbid it because it will make oil more expensive, gas prices will go up, Trump will be sad

>>63907066
They've captured a ton of blanks in 2014

>>63912125
>that's delulu, if they attack the baltics they're going to get gigafucked by NATO
Nah, the countries further away from russia are too comfortable and delusional to engage in full war. Recent history has shown time and time again that countries like US and Germnay don't have the guts to face russia and its bullshit, so not only they cuck out themselves (Taurus where?), but also force others to cuck out (remember the Polish MiG situation?). Simple as.

>>63912217
a bunch of weird assumptions with no basis, but sure
AT WORST maybe spain and portugal wouldn't get involved, maybe.

>>63912138
Bruh, western armies literally don't understand that in a modern battlefield there will be thousands of drones above them: from doing recon of their every fart to dropping grenades to flying in an FPV drone and so on. And that will happen up to 50 km from the contact line. There's literally zero understanding about this.

>>63912138
>this weird notion that we will be "forced" out of mobility warfare because we just will okay is silly.
The battlefield being transparent and using the mother of all minefields throws quite a big wrench into the whole mobility thing. That even before combat drone usage is taken into account.

>>63912154
The drone teams which would decimate tanks, ifvs and other transport won't be sitting in designated HQs that are easy to JDAM into the ground. That's the fun part, those worms can be anywhere.

>>63912015
Isn't it obvious why Russia invaded Ukraine? Because they could get away with it. It doesn't matter about the diaspora populations in NATO countries they know full well if they made any meaningful move against NATO they would get ass-raped. All this paranoid talk about Russia "not stopping at Ukraine" is so tiresome. They've literally been firing US made missiles deep into Russian territory and Putin has been turning a blind eye, just stop with the mellow drama please it's so ridiculous
>Most people do not read reports. They also do not listen to what people are saying.
And the smugness in this

>>63912223
I provide concrete examples of previous behavior, which all things considered is a better indicator of future actions than "it will happens just because I feel so"

>>63912217
>>63912243
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

>>63912243
you provide concrete examples like us not intervening in ukraine because they're not in NATO
the baltics are in NATO
end of story.

>>63912226
>to dropping grenades
good luck doing that against an enemy with good EW

>>63904108
Fucking retard
It is a large armed forces but is reliant soley on outdated shit, outdated gibs and random trial shit, trying to fight and ape a doctrine they don't fully understand using equipment not designed to do that job with much of its leadership still stuck in their brainrot soviet retardation
They were at their best in early war ambush tactics because they had the gear and know how to ape NATO
They cannot do airland battle and that is painfully apparent

>>63912168
Whats stopping glowies from funding violent uprising in Hungary?

>>63912262
EW isn't some mythical "wunderwaffe" (god I hate russians for popularizing this term), retard. Russians were sure of their own EW before 2022 and were confident that it's even better than western EW, yet they are routinely fucked.

>>63912272
Who's glowies?

>>63912303
it isn't, but western EW is a lot better and it's why even though we've already had to deal with tons of FPV nonsense in sand wars, it hasn't been much of a problem for us.

>>63909564
I propose turning every russian man, woman, child and eldery into environmentally friendly cat food and erase russian identity forever. Concentration camps for all of them, kill on sight

>t.canadian liberal

>>63912311
a. EW is limited in range, you can't flood a 1000x50 km front line with EW;
b. sandniggers used retails stuff, even russians know that you have to jailbreak it and change frequencies;

>>63912316
>into environmentally friendly cat food
but... but the aids?!

>>63904152
>europe is made up soley of balts and romanians
Kill yourself
>>UK
>100+ typhoons
>40/50 F-35
>>FR
>150 rafale
>roughly 100 mirage 2000

Then we consider their AWACS
Their reconnaissance fleet
Their airlift capabilities
Then the helicopter fleets of all types
Then we can think about the entire rest of their armed forces
Then we can start to consider every other European nation
Kill yourself stupid cunt

>>63904481
>>63904492
It reminds me when China soft annexed some islands in the Philippines economic exclusive zone. Technically it was illegal but they took risks and gambled on the Philippines not reacting and the US chickening out and succeeded. They knew they would dare to go in a all out war for some shitty island but the precedent has been made and I am convinced the russians will try something like this and will win. Do you think Spain would ever send its military to defend some backwater <100 population village in eastern Estonia? Never and Russia is banking on dissolving Nato, which already partly succeeded with the soft withdraw of the US

>>63912320
Cats are the niggers of pets
>but...but my le caterino needs to go le outside so it is not le bored and lives happily free like his ancestors
Doing catastrophic damage to bird and local fauna as it's an invasive species with no predators
>but le humans worse!
Face the wall and prepare to be pasted

>>63903997 (OP)
With fucking what?

>>63912341
>Cats are the niggers of pets
No, you're just a karen of environmentalism

>Doing catastrophic damage to bird and local fauna
Animals get hunted and die every day, cats are not a factor in this whatsoever

Also, please tell any southern country how cats are le bad and they should allow the local snakes and other crap to run wild instead.

>>63912341
brown post

>>63912331
Well, Finland would not back out and would be bombing those russians on daily basis. And if Russia acted threatening towards finland, it would immediately pull in other nordics, which would pull in Brits and Germans because they are dependent on Norwegian oil.

>>63912347
>you're just a karen of environmentalism
Not an argument, cats are well known to wreck havoc on local fauna like Australia and Hawaii

>Animals get hunted and die every day, cats are not a factor in this whatsoever
Respectfully, think for a moment. This is blatant appeal to nature without even addressing the problem. They are invasive species brought by humans where in most places animals have no answers to cats. They are very effective hunters, kill for fun, few natural predators (especially in urban areas), very numerous and reproduce very fast. Anytime there's imbalance of predators vs prey, populations collapses and balances itself. Not in this case as cats will not run out of food and will not be hunted by other predators as we shelter them resulting in population collapses and outright extinction of local fauna

>>63912369
Not an argument, you are well known to spew bullshit

>>63912369
>They are invasive species brought by humans
my retarded brown friend cats were and are a staple of european life for centuries, for both practical uses and companionship, they didn't just appear yesterday, stop with your retarded peta ass faggot bullshit

>>63912331
you forget that the EU also has it's own collective defense clause.
not honoring that clause risks EU integration.
Losing EU integration would crash every economy in Europe. Just looking like it could be lost would hit them all hard.
So not acting on the collective defense clause would cost them more then doing so.

>>63912373
>>63912355
Not an argument, must be non-white with such low cognitive thinking

>>63912378
>companionship
Just say you're a weak beta bitch boy faggot lmao. Yeah they've been in europe for centuries and caused unknown amount of damage because they are an invasive species and even worse now coupled with all the habitat loss, pesticides, harmful chemicals and just about every household having

Enjoy being infertile with your toxoplasmosis faggot lmao

>>63912355
Browns love cats and hate dogs though?

>>63912396
Browns hate animals overall

>>63912394
>Just say you're a weak beta bitch boy faggot lmao
Found the roastie

>>63912381
No I didn't forget and I still think the EU will chicken out because "nothing ever happens". As much as I hate faggot MIGA Trump, he was right. You guys cozied up to russians too much and neglected defence spending (western europe at least). And btw yes we (Canada) are the worst at this but now we are talking about the EU. What value does this clause have when every few years europe needs to hold its breath when a country goes full retard eu-skeptic, pro-russian government? Take a look at Romania, Hungary, Slovakia and all other european countries, most of them have their main opposition party having those views and are only a few % off of being in charge. The ruling party makes a mistake, people are unhappy and then gets replaced by a radically different government not upholding the defense clause, look how easy it was for the US

I will not believe this defence clause until I see active pogroms, violence, deportations, concentration camps of russians and countries restarting their own nuclear programs

>t.extremely peaceful canadian moderate

>>63912417
>I will not believe this defence clause until I see active pogroms, violence, deportations, concentration camps of russians and countries restarting their own nuclear programs
Oh well, I guess we need to start those earlier than projected.
Shame. Concentration camp creation takes time and resources.

the russian boogeyman is always a good way to distract from terrible domestic policies like mass immigration leading to ethnic replacement, authoritarianism in supposed free democracies, and similar things.

russia isn't a military threat to anyone but ukraine.

>>63912433
At this point, Ziggeria has attacked everyone it managed to, Chechnya, Georgia, Ukraine, steps on Armenia's necks, etc.
All of those, they attacked twice.
The only way to stop a rabid dog is to put it down. Russia is a credible threat to anyone unprepared for their sudden monke spergout.

>>63912417
>You guys cozied up to russians too much
Ahem, should I really point to the "chicken kiev" speech and "hillary reset"?

>>63912433
>p-please don't worry about Russia
>worry about these Russian propaganda talking points instead
Russia is fuelling these problems you nigger retard.

>>63904627
>the Czech Republic

>>63904855
>the Baltics are really, really small countries with tiny militaries. Russia would absolutely take them even with their tardedness if the EU/NATO didn't get involved.
They're already there. There is no way for Ruzzia to attack without NATO getting involved.

>>63912369
cats have been on every major continent before humans even domesticated them
>>63912394
>>63912396
>n-no u
cats are the white man's pet, end of story

>>63912489
Shitskins love cats and hate dogs
Dogs hate shitskins
This is factual lmao

>>63912417
>if there are a few countries in Eastern Europe that aren't TZD that means that the rest of Europe won't defend it's self
I expect no more for a country that puts milk in plastic bags
you also don't understand how the EU works
the collective defense clause doesn't require a vote or anything. There is nothing that say Orban can do to stop the French from getting involved.
Even in the things that do require a vote, most of those don't require unanimity and a qualifies majority is enough. Even if al the countries you mention where to become rabbit zigger suckers they couldn't block those because there are to few countries and the represent to small a share of the population.
those few votes that still require unanimity are hard for them to block. Because with being ziggers comes corruption and if you are corrupt with Eu money you will lose your vote like Orban's Hungary.
And even then you get the degree of ziggerness wrong. Those political movements aren't all out ziggers, it's them doing opposite of other party" politics. Being contrarian isn't worth the money they get from the EU. Orban's Hungary is a clear example for them and above all else that once the EU starts withholding funds your political career is in danger.
Even if they win their respective elections and they are the hard on raging ziggers you think they are. Oh no we have to fight the russians without the Slovaks, Hungarians and Romanians, what ever shall we do? We only have France, Finland, Poland, the UK, Italy, Spain, German and the other countries left.
>but you didn't spend enough on defense
you don't need to spend much on defense to be able to offer a credible deterrence against russian capabilities.
Besides now Europe is ramping up and russia is burning it's capacity to wage a future war down to wage it's current one

>>63912497
>t-this is factual
niggers do have a tendency to state bullshit as if it's facts, like you're doing right now

>>63912091
>implying it won’t be a ira situation

Legitimate question: why has neither side made an attempt at destroying the others government or at very least their ability to function? We've seen that Ukraine can get explosives anywhere they want inside of Russia, bombing the Kremlin would severely hamper the war effort, no? Same applies to the Russians, why don't they use one or their oh so scary missiles to hit the Ukrainian government?

>>63912539
ira crap works when it's against uk, not against zubhuman animals

>>63910469
>I'm going to spew totalitarian propaganda purely to spite your totalitarian tendencies.
You fool no one bydlo

>>63912601
it looks like the russians tried at the start of the war but failed.
the main reason why you don't is that if you can the other side probably can as well.
so you blow up their leader and then they blow you up. Most people don't like being blown up.
but other third party leaders also don't like the idea of just blowing them up getting out.
Besides both sides know that even if you blow up the leader and the upper echelons of the other side, they can regenerate it just like you can.
So you are taking a huge risk as to your personal safety, take a big hit to your PR and the opinion of other leaders to do something that won't have that much effect.
And there's also the possibility that they guy replacing their leadership is better or hates you more

>>63912601
russians can't do it
ukies are forbidden from doing it by partners

I don't really know if I genuinely believe that this is MIC fearmongering to get finded, politicians fearmongering for rally-round-the-flag unity, or me just trying to fend off fears of being interned or shot for potential treason when shit pops off
>t. Belarusian in Poland

>>63904091
Honestly I think the losses would doom any Euro cooperation against Russia. How maby Germans have died in military action in the last 80 years? How maby lives would modern Germans be willing to sacrifice for Estonia? I hope if NATO has a war in Europe we force Euros to do the heavy lifting even if I know 90% of the NATO casualties will probably be Americans.

>>63903997 (OP)
>1949
>Russia may attack in next 4 years
>2025
>Russia may attack in next 4 years
Does Bibi have another chart to show us?

>>63912795
the Europeans have 2+ million troops
the US has less than 100k troops in Europe

The worse the situation is in Russia the more likely they are to do it. The country is in war mode churning out mountains of guns and ammo and the population still has the mythos of the great patriotic war. If they finally topple Ukraine they will 100% reach out for the Baltics and probably Poland. If Russia does a real mobilization they can fairly easily do it especially now that they have experience in modern drone wars.

The sad fact is that neither you, me and generally anyone from the original NATO zone is really willing to go die for Estonia or Poland, nor will we risk nuclear armageddon for these countries

>>63912954
>easily
Haha good one

>>63912891
>the Europeans have 2+ million troops
on paper. how many of those could be effectively fielded on the other side of a continent where the fight actually is? Even with euro politicians currently lying out their ass about how they will spend gorillions more on military in two more weeks, every euro based military analyst is being put in front of cameras for news segments saying that they would struggle to deploy even low 5 figure numbers of troops outside of their borders for longer than a month. UK defense types have been saying for literally months now that an all out effort on the part of the UK army would result in 10-15k soldiers being fielded outside of the UK. And the UK is a contender for the biggest military in europe. The much hyped JEF organization between the UK and literally every nordic country also amounts to only 10k troops able to be deployed in any kind of useful timescale.

Don't lie to yourself about the sad state of european militaries. Unironically most european militaries at this point amount to basically a jobs program. The German military in particular is exceptionally pathetic, they probably would be unable to bring any appreciable force to bear at all in a war situation with how underfunded and disorganized they are STILL.
Europe has what I have heard amusingly called bonzai militaries. Very shiny, expensive and capable toys and effective training programs, but zero strategic depth from absolutely tiny amounts of both of those things.

>>63912891
Doesn't mean shit if the Euros half ass their own contributions out of fear of casualties which wouldn't surprise me in the least. Euros will demand Americans be grateful for their limited aid in Afghanistan when Article 5 was activated but 2/3rds of the casualties were Americans and 17% were Bongs and Canadians. When push comes to shove I'm highly doubtful that Germans, Italians, Spaniards, Finns, Swedes, and Poles are willing to die in the thousands to defend another country.

>>63912999
if the world wars have proven anything, it's that small european militaries can suddenly and quite rapidly become massive and formidable

>>63913012
>if the world wars have proven anything, it's that small european militaries can suddenly and quite rapidly become massive and formidable
Pretty bizarre understanding of history there, considering hilter knocked over all of western europe short of britain over a lazy weekend and it wasn't liberated until the US came to the rescue. And that was with the french military being supposedly the best army in europe at the time.

>>63913023
and not even hitler expected france to fall on a fluke. but it's beside the point, we're talking about russia being the aggressor, not germany

>>63912801
Well yes, russia was the main organized of the Korea War

>>63913034
>we're talking about russia being the aggressor, not germany
how is that relevant at all to your claim about the world wars? fyi, russia was allied with western europe in both world wars.
>and not even hitler expected france to fall on a fluke
Seems to me that would reinforce my point, not yours. It shouldn't even be possible to "fluke" your way into a total conquest and capitulation of your country. The fact that happened at all would suggest that historically europe is even less effective than you might expect of a generic country.

>>63912891
>the Europeans have 2+ million troops
Aren't you counting "people in the military" instead of troops?

>>63913012
There's a big difference between WW2 and the present. It takes a lot more time and specialized individuals to make an F-16 or Abrams over a P-51 or Sherman and technology has diverged too much for factories to be reasonably retooled in any meaningful amount of time. Unless you want everyone to fight as light infantry riding around in sedans and shitty towed tube artillery than you won't be able to field armies of millions of men for years.

>>63912795
>90% of the NATO casualties will probably be Americans.
they way things are going, soon there won't be any US troops east of the Oder

>>63913063
That would be nice. Hate the idea of Americans dying for ungrateful Euros.

>>63913049
half of germany's gains were due to german populations being okay being taken over by germany. nobody wants to reunite with russia. and russia has already proven that they can't even make it to kiev, much less dunkirk. and you're completely ignoring the first world war

>>63913074
>half of germany's gains were due to german populations being okay being taken over by germany.
And damn near every country in europe is currently battling right wing parties that want to go back to making nice with russia and barely beating them by single digit margins despite the egregiously heavy handed meddling in elections by the EU.
>and russia has already proven that they can't even make it to kiev, much less dunkirk.
The question wasn't about russia conquering all of europe, it was about what europe would be willing or even able to do if russia tried to conquer estonia or someplace similar, and currently every indication militarily, politically, industrially and historically says that their response would be feeble.

>>63913007
>but 2/3rds of the casualties were Americans
Only because murricans were retarded to sit there for 20 years

>>63913069
You are brown or russian

>>63913094
>I love the idea of being a slave to my European betters

>>63913090
You say that like Euro casualties at any point were equal or proportional to American casualties.

>>63913108
the comparison probably even shows a disproportionate amount of casualties for EU armies vs a conventional war, because the casualties of the afgan war were so incredibly low in general it meant that a country losing like 2 guys to a random IED or car crash makes their proportion of casualties go up by a noticeable amount. The casualties in the afgan war were so fucking low that it was literally safer to be deployed to afganistan than live in detriot over the same timeframe.
And even to that incredibly low risk, low effort conflict europe barely lifted a finger.

>>63912331
Yes you retard nevermind their immediate neighbours, your 1939 invading poland wont trigger anything tier of thinking

>>63913126
The only country to suffer more per capita casualties than the US was Georgia.

>>63913007
The US invoked art.5, it was the US's war not theirs.
But they showed up. The problem being that all their armies where desinged to fight the Soviets in Europe. They lacked the force projection and air born logistics to send much more than what they did. when they offered to send more if the US would provide the logistical support it required they where turned down.
So then the US invaded Iraq out for no good reason and stretched it's own military thin having to contend with two insurgencies at once.
So the US started to bitch about the Europeans not pulling their weight in fighting the US's wars.
So they got rid of their tanks ect to get more useful stuff for the US's war because they had to contend with very tight budget constraint because these weren't their wars and they had to deal with the shitskins those wars displaced.
and now the circle has come round, the US is bitching that they have armies meant to do expeditionary stuff alongside the US and they no longer have armies meant to fight to fight the russians in Europe. So they may or may not honor art.5.
1/3 of the casualties in Afghanistan being other NATO members is a fraction several times higher than the US casualties will be fighting the russians in Europe.
>>63913051
Well the US has 100k "people in the military" in Europe

>>63913152
I guarantee to that if you looked at the casualties for every country with 10-20 total casualties that all of them were from stupid shit like training accidents or vehicles crashes, aka shit that would have probably happened anyway if they were sitting on base at home.

>>63913152
and Denmark, and Spain
but that won't change zigger shils mind

>>63913157
>Well the US has 100k "people in the military" in Europe
AFAIK most of the "non-soldiers" military of murrica stays within the US, so there isn't that many of them in Europe.

>>63913157
>The US invoked art.5, it was the US's war not theirs.
You are just reinforcing his point, why would it be viewed any differently for estonia or poland? It's estonia/poland's war not ours, right?
In fact it would probably be even worse, since for afganistan european countries probably felt like that had to do something if only for appearances sake since the USA is the sugar daddy for all of NATO. If it was a pissant nation like one of the baltics on the hook they would find any excuse possible to get out of their obligations just like they avoided their spending obligations for 20 years.

>>63913157
>The US invoked art.5, it was the US's war not theirs.
So if Estonia invokes art.5 it's their war, not ours. Good to know we don't need to do more then send a few dozen forklift and truck drivers.

>But they showed up. The problem being that all their armies where desinged to fight the Soviets in Europe. They lacked the force projection and air born logistics to send much more than what they did. when they offered to send more if the US would provide the logistical support it required they where turned down.
Great they purposely refused to reorganized their armies along modern lines to avoid being of any use, and in a war with Russia they would do the same.

>So then the US invaded Iraq out for no good reason and stretched it's own military thin having to contend with two insurgencies at once.
Iraq is irrelevant, it wasn't a use of article five and whoever joined us is appreciated to some extent.

>So the US started to bitch about the Europeans not pulling their weight in fighting the US's wars.
The didn't fight in the one war where they were bound by treaty to so why should we fight in their war when they call on us?

>So they got rid of their tanks ect to get more useful stuff for the US's war because they had to contend with very tight budget constraint because these weren't their wars and they had to deal with the shitskins those wars displaced.
Could have just not taken in refugees. Besides the refugee crisis didn't begin until around 2011. Also could have funded their militaries.

>and now the circle has come round, the US is bitching that they have armies meant to do expeditionary stuff alongside the US and they no longer have armies meant to fight to fight the russians in Europe. So they may or may not honor art.5.
Good. Fuck Europeans

>1/3 of the casualties in Afghanistan being other NATO members is a fraction several times higher than the US casualties will be fighting the russians in Europe.
LMAO!

>>63913185
>They showed up to a war that didn't affect them against a country that couldn't threaten them
>This means they'll just sit by and do nothing when a country that has been openly threatening them for the past 100 years invades their allied neighbor

>>63913163
Country.........Deaths...Population...Deaths per million
Georgia........32.........3.8 million.......8.42
USA..............2461.......309 million.....7.96
Denmark.........43.........5.5 million.......7.82
UK.................457........63 million........7.25

>>63913198
>They showed up to a war that didn't affect them against a country that couldn't threaten them
They didn't show up, that's the issue.
>This means they'll just sit by and do nothing when a country that has been openly threatening them for the past 100 years invades their allied neighbor
Probably, I doubt their willingness to bleed for others. Again if Europe won't bleed for America why should America bleed for Europe?

>>63913198
>They showed up to a war that didn't affect them against a country that couldn't threaten them
They barely showed up with a token force to the easiest non-war in the history of war. What would they do for a real war when the aggressor is also the country that they buy all their fucking energy from with no alternative.

>Denmark.........43.........5.5 million.......7.82
jfc, all the kvetching about poor heckin denmark. 43 people over 20 years. 2 people per year lmao, they probably died from fucking heatstroke or falling over and banging their head with numbers that low.

>>63913182
you are aware that most of the troops the US has in Europe are logistics right?
the US has two brigades and assorted elements in Europe that's 20k trigger pullers max
>>63913185
>You are just reinforcing his point
no it isn't he's claiming that the US shouldn't fight for Europe because Europe didn't bleed enough in the sandpit.
Europe isn't expecting the US to bleed more than it's self in any war in Europe no more than the US should expect them to bleed more than them in their wars.
Europe went to Afghanistan over a terrorist attack by a non state actor.
that's pretty low escalation wise even if it was a mass casualty event.
The US sovereignty was never under any threat and yet Europe showed up.
>muh spending obligation
the US was going just as hard on the peace dividend as Europe was. Until it got stuck in the sandbox for 20 years and then started to bitch about Europe not doing enough to help them in the sandbox.

>>63913210
>They didn't show up, that's the issue.
Lol. lmao even.
>>63913213
>They barely showed up with a token force to the easiest non-war in the history of war.
And yet they showed up.
>What would they do for a real war when the aggressor is also the country that they buy all their fucking energy from with no alternative.
Ah yes, I'm sure Europe is going to freeze in a mere two weeks.

>>63904051
Trump has been completely right from the beginning and it's been eye-opening how heavily botted this board is by organizations trying to stop him.

>>63913217
>And yet they showed up.
if that counts as showing up then you will have no complaints when the US sends a few hundred advisors and some get well soon cards right?

>>63913226
Really at work moving those goalposts, huh.

>>63913217
>Lol. lmao even.
Yes thank you Germany for your 62 dead. We can make sure that if Russia invades Estonia 62 Americans will die for every 2461 Germans.

>>63913224
the amount of obsequiousness the euros showed to trump at the nato thing was hilarious, bordering on sickening with how pathetic it was. I bet trump had a fucking rock hard boner the entire time with how much he could rub it in their face.
the man is so based it's unreal.

>>63904997
>The worst case scenario is actually the war going on for so long it bankrupts Russia
Their own reporting indicates a "credible possibility" of complete domestic banking collapse in 12 months. Coincidentally, this would also coincide with about when the Soviet armor stocks are believe to be fully exhausted by various OSINT estimates.

The RU MoD (Putin) has been able to order non-stop offenses since Summer 2023 on the largess of Soviet stockpiles and pillaging the state's coffers. What do you suppose happens when both those disappear at roughly the same time?

Turns out trading hundreds of thousands of men, tens of thousands of pieces of armor, and trillions of rubles for depopulated and UXO contaminated Ukrainian farmland + ruined rural hamlets may not have been so strategically wise long term.

>>63913226
Those advisors come with the locations of Russian generals and targeting data for missiles. Don't sell American aid short.

>>63913193
>So if Estonia invokes art.5 it's their war, not ours. Good to know we don't need to do more then send a few dozen forklift and truck drivers.
well art. 5 doesn't say how much a county must contribute so you could.
>Great they purposely refused to reorganized their armies along modern lines to avoid being of any use
see
>So they got rid of their tanks ect to get more useful stuff for the US's war
since you did quote it it just shows that this isn't an honest discussion
>Iraq is irrelevant
Iraq is why the US didn't have enough troops to adequately deal with Afghanistan. This leat to the US demanding a larger contribution from Europe. While it wasted any public support for the war in Afghanistan in Europe.
>joined us is appreciated to some extent
well all the Baltic states and Ukraine joined you so I expect the US will do all in it's power to thank them by committing their own troops when they need them.
>The didn't fight in the one war where they were bound by treaty to so
riddle me this zigger, how are you 1/3 of causalities if you didn't fight?

>>63913216
>Europe went to Afghanistan
Do not compare creating more work for the countries that actually tried to the US singlehandedly keeping vatnik rape orcs out of your villages despite your natural Eurocuck love of rape orcs from all over the world.

>>63904249
I think more than being bribed or coerced, it was the naive hope that trade would keep the peace through financial incentives and maybe could change russia and build a lasting peace, but that was a misguided hope as we all know now. This was probably the largest failure in Merkel's legacy.

>>63913247

>>63913240
They whined and screamed and in the end they all knelt.

>>63913243
that, some munitions and the troops the US already has in Europe is all it would take to beat the russians

>>63905551
god please let this happen because it would be so fucking funny

>>63913245
>well art. 5 doesn't say how much a county must contribute so you could.
And I'm saying hopefully we will.

>see
>since you did quote it it just shows that this isn't an honest discussion
Being a generation behind isn't an excuse for not contributing.

>Iraq is why the US didn't have enough troops to adequately deal with Afghanistan. This leat to the US demanding a larger contribution from Europe. While it wasted any public support for the war in Afghanistan in Europe.
Afghanistan was never undermanned, we wanted Euros to help because we called article five. Why the fuck would we waste trillions defending Europe for free?

>well all the Baltic states and Ukraine joined you so I expect the US will do all in it's power to thank them by committing their own troops when they need them.
Sure, a similar amount they contributed. Nine Estonians died for American interests so nine Americans can die for Estonian interests.

>riddle me this zigger, how are you 1/3 of causalities if you didn't fight?
Great and if Europe is invaded will Euros be the majority of the casualties? I highly doubt that.

>>63913242
Putin is pulling a George R. R. Martin. Die with your work uncompleted so it can't be remembered as a failure. All he has to do is die before the collapse, and he will be remembered as the leader during "the good times" "when we were strong and taking clay" while his successors will have to endure the slings and arrows of being in charge during the hard and humiliating times to come.

It's a transparent strategy. Even Trump who came into this seeing Ukraine as a Democrat tax dollar laundering machine and Zelensky as a pompous little brat caught on to it when pointing out all the lives lost and certain economic ruin for Russia only made Putin shrug. Trump's big problem is that he's a human, not a politician, he sees wars as bad and human death as heartbreaking, while every other politician on the planet only cares when it affects them staying in power, so you can see the abrupt tone change when he realized Putin doesn't care about dead Russians.

>>63913259
>Troops
Could but we would never set boots on the ground. We don't want Europe as part of our empire, and it isn't our job to defend or rule it.

>>63913254
You are, yes, Piotyr.

>>63913216
>the US was going just as hard on the peace dividend as Europe was
quite literally did not however. A majority of european military budgets were literally scraping 0% before the russian war. US military spending never dipped below 3.5% since the fall of the soviets which is the current benchmark for eurofags that they are screeching their guts out over about being impossible.

>>63913269
retard-kun
again there's 2 million European in uniform nearly all in Europe
as of march there are 1.25 million Americans in uniform of whom there are 100k in Europe with just two brigades
how is the US going to bleed more than them?

>>63913323
see
>>63912999

Aid from the US to Ukraine got to the battlefield faster than aid from fucking continential europe got there. And not by a small margin either.
European armies are totally dependent on US logistics to actually get anywhere and do anything, and their forces are so woefully underfunded that they would be lacking capability even if they did manage to get in the fight.

>>63912954
>If Russia does a real mobilization
if they did that it would just be over for them even faster.

>>63913007
dont forget the japs that got sent there without guns, lmao.

>>63913323
>how is the US going to bleed more than them?

Who do you think is actually going to do the fighting? If it's not anglo, it's not shit

>>63912999
how many of those could be effectively fielded on the other side of a continent where the fight actually is
somewhere between 400-550k which is a better tooth-to-tail ratio than the US has
>being put in front of cameras for news segments saying that they would struggle to deploy even low 5 figure numbers of troops outside of their borders for longer than a month
they aren't tough. they where saying that they would struggle with the munitions expenditure in the scale seen in Ukraine. But US defense officials have said the same so I guess we are in the same boat.
>And the UK is a contender for the biggest military in europe
that's not even close it's 5th at best 6th depending on if you count Germany's support troops as full soldier or not
>JEF organization
isn't their complete military, just a rapid response force
>Don't lie to yourself about the sad state of european militaries
it isn't great, but it doesn't have to be to contend with the russians
>>63913337
>Aid from the US to Ukraine got to the battlefield faster
the Poles got their aid in firt
>European armies are totally dependent on US logistics
they don't have to get to Afghanistan to fight the russians.
>>63913362
probably those 400-550k European troops since the US has less than 15k combat troops in Europe now and won't be sending many more because it's holding them back to deal with China.

>>63913284
>Could but we would never set boots on the ground
>we
sure mister Alexandorf from Texas oblast
>>63913294
the US was planning on cutting defense pending to below 3% before 9/11

>>63913404
The EU actually did cut their defense spending below 1% despite every president since eisenhower telling them to spend more.
You're right though your imaginary unsourced scenario justifies europe blowing off the commitment they themselves made for 20 years even after putin took over crimea in 2014. Guess they figured it would all blow over.

>>63913430
>The EU actually did cut their defense spending below 1%
May I see it?
>INB4 the Vatican is used as a representative of the EU as a whole
You said the EU, show me the EU having spending below 1%.

>>63913444
https://www.macrotrends.net/global-metrics/countries/euu/european-union/gdp-gross-domestic-product

https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/policies/defence-numbers/

between 2005 to 2017 EU defense spending was ~1%.

>>63913467
>Conflating GDP and expenditure

>>63913404
Yes, we. Americans. Which we are and you aren't. Because we don't want another sandbox and have repeatedly said we aren't sending troops, you seething retard.

>>63913484
The percentage number regularly given is in PERCENT OF GDP. You divide their amount spent on military by their GDP. So yes, it is relevant. For that entire period and well before it to the fall of the soviets the europeans spent pathetic amounts on military.

Guess who came along in 2017 and finally forced them to do something about it.

>>63913467
2005: 1.25%
2010: 1.03% and that is with the Euro crisis triggered by the 2008 American housing crisis
2015: 1.1%
2017: 1.1%
your own sources contradict you

>>63913494
>The percentage number regularly given is in PERCENT OF GDP. You divide their amount spent on military by their GDP. So yes, it is relevant.
No, it's the percentage of total government spending. That's what the NATO *guideline* is.

>>63913502
>ERM ACKSHUALLY WE SPENT 0.1% MORE THAN 1%

Making my case for me here.

>>63913505
>No, it's the percentage of total government spending.

https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/topics_49198.htm

>At the 2025 NATO Summit in The Hague, Allies made a commitment to investing 5% of Gross Domestic Product (GDP) annually on core defence requirements and defence- and security-related spending by 2035. They will allocate at least 3.5% of GDP

>GDP
>GDP

You homos LITERALLY don't even know what you are talking about.

>*guideline*
If you want to play that game, article 5 is a *guideline* too. Have fun with that.

>>63913485
because you don't want an other sandbox you are current being led into an other one by Israel and are preparing for welcome to the rice paddies 2.0 in Asia.
but the idea of honoring your art. 5 commitment in the slightest is what really concerns you
If there's anyone seething it is you claiming that Europe can't defend it's self only to be proven it can and claiming that it would be the US that bleeds for it the most proven it won't.
you are confusing Europe wanting the US to make it clear it will honor it's commitment because it would deter the russians from doing anything funny to begin with for us wanting to free ride you all the way to the grave.

>>63913515
>At the 2025 NATO Summit in The Hague
>2025
I'm talking about the 2006 commitment (which, looking it up again, was actually GDP not spending, I misremembered).
>If you want to play that game, article 5 is a *guideline* too. Have fun with that.
>A bunch of politicians saying they'll commit to try to do something is the same as a signed treaty saying you HAVE to do something
Holy fuck you're a retard.

>>63913507
see >>63913430
>spending below 1%
you moving your goal post doesn't make your original claim any less false

>>63913529
>treaty saying you HAVE to do something
https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/topics_110496.htm

>The Parties agree that an armed attack against one or more of them in Europe or North America shall be considered an attack against them all and consequently they agree that, if such an armed attack occurs, each of them, in exercise of the right of individual or collective self-defence recognized by Article 51 of the Charter of the United Nations, will assist the Party or Parties so attacked by taking forthwith, individually and in concert with the other Parties, such action as it deems necessary, including the use of armed force, to restore and maintain the security of the North Atlantic area.

>such action as it deems necessary

That's the text of article 5. It's well known that article 5 is NOT any kind of binding commitment to military action. If a member nation does not deem military deployment necessary it can choose not to do so. So if you want to hide behind weasel words about how "Erm ackshully we didn't really mean it when we said we would spend 2% :)" then the United States can say the exact same shit to you when russia invades.

>>63913538
It's still not a guideline.
No amount of goal post moving will change that.

>>63913542
You're right, it isn't a guideline. It's the text of the treaty saying the US doesn't have to do anything at all if it doesn't want to. And why would the US want to do anything for the defense of europe if europe won't do anything for the defense of europe?

See how that works? Arrangements like this are based on trust, if you flagrantly violate that trust by blowing off responsibility for the defense of your own fucking homeland for decades on end don't expect people on the other side of the world to stay motivated to cover your lazy asses.

>>63913538
>no youropoor a terrorist attack means you have to go full in on the sandbox
>oh a full on invasion by russia of a member state of NATO isn't really a merit any military action
I mean the US is free to do so. But no one will ever trust it again and withing 5 years the Koreans and Japanese will ask you to leave.
it would be the end of the US's global domination and the benefits it bring it

>>63913558
>oh a full on invasion by russia of crimea doesn't really a merit any increase in spending

I can play that game too btw.

Guess what, my side is winning. Just watch the video of the NATO meeting where every yurofaggot in a 20 mile radius was all but begging to suck Trump's cock. You lost, and you better get ready to pay up.

>>63913551
>if you flagrantly violate that trust by blowing off responsibility for the defense of your own fucking homeland for decades on end don't expect people on the other side of the world to stay motivated to cover your lazy asses.
IDK man, so far America has been the only NATO member not to honor an Article 5 call that didn't join after 2022.

>>63913569
I do know, very well, that yurofaggots flouted their very own 2% spending commitment for 20 years. That wasn't going to continue forever, you were either going to listen when you were nicely warned, or you were gonna get someone like Trump shoving his cock straight down your throat with no lube. You chose the second option.

>>63913573
why all the homoerotic posturing, sonny

>>63903997 (OP)
>more men overall
European NATO, so excluding Turkey, USA and Canada, has 2.1 million soldiers. Russia is outnumbered even if its only fighting Europe. Our issue is logistics and production, not manpower. There are something like 550 million Europeans, anon.

>>63904152
Europe together can put up several hundred F-35, shitloads of mirages and raphales, grippens. More than enough to handle the ~200 to 300 somewhat modern jets of all types that Russia operates. And in that number I include shit like SU-24, which hasnt been seen operationally since the beginning of the war, as they cant handle even moderate man portable AA

>>63913563
> suck Trump's cock
and there it is the zigger not thinking about gay sex challenge: impossible
has crossed your mind that people treating a countries leader as a kid throwing a tantrum in public isn't a win
sure it might feel validating in the moment but we all know that everyone is shifting way from the US not closer.
ffs the Japanese have re-started talks with the Chinese they stopped holding because Biden asked them to. But Isheda a military otaku and china hawk is falters Trump so it doesn't matter.

>>63913709
>has crossed your mind that people treating a countries leader as a kid throwing a tantrum in public isn't a win
yurofags literally called Trump daddy and bent the knee to his demand they spend 5%.
You queers are so utterly buckbroken, it's unbelievable.
>ffs the Japanese have re-started talks with the Chinese
lmao literal fake news.

>>63912238
>mellow drama
Its Melodrama. For Melodia Dramatica, as in to make a performance to attract attention. You stupid fucking uncultured yankee.

>>63912236
>>63912262
I think you guys are missing that drones are all well and good, but they need to be manufactured. Russia would not have massive capacity to produce them for long, as strategic assets are deployed against them. Its kinda like 1945. Yeah maybe the ME-262 is a great fighter. Shame they can only make like 10 a month (because the factories are all bombed), and the airfields are all bombed.

>>63912355
Cats are literally Egyptian. You dont get more sandnigger than that.

>>63913254
ESL is such a weird insult. Everyone in Europe outside the UK is ESL. And hald this thread is likely Europeans. Just call them niggers and pajeets.

>>63913721
https://www.japantimes.co.jp/business/2025/03/21/japan-china-economic-talks/
https://english.kyodonews.net/news/2025/03/bbfdab9cb10c-japan-china-hold-1st-high-level-economic-dialogue-in-6-yrs.html
but you keep living in your gay fantasy

>>63913277
>Trump's big problem is that he's a human, not a politician, he sees wars as bad and human death as heartbreaking
Are you trying to make me believe that a malignant narcissist cares about other people?
He doesn't even care about his children beyond wanting to fuck one of them.

>>63913240
>the amount of obsequiousness the euros showed to trump at the nato thing was hilarious, bordering on sickening with how pathetic it was
He can't see it though, he's that easily manipulated.

>>63913924
Who is the one doing the manipulating again? Last time I checked europe was the one being browbeaten into submission by the big orange cock.

>>63913878
but most of the European that post here understand basic English grammar and syntax.
while the russians, pajeets ect. don't

>>63913893
literally within days of this event japan said that the chinks were misrepresenting the talks however.
https://chinaglobalsouth.com/2025/03/24/japan-china-in-new-spat-after-three-way-talks/

and also japan has been complaining non-stop this year about china's military movements, and about how their collaboration with the US on security is irreplaceable.

Sorry, but daddy still owns all of you.

why is authoritarianism so gay

>>63913038
>not China
>Korea was a part of NATO
And I'm glad we agree providing air support to warring nations means the US has been responsible for far more wars than it gets credit for causing.

>>63913247
You're gonna give someone an aneurysm

>>63913801
Stop crying like a bitch lol I'm not American, regardless of my typo my point still stands. You are being MELODRAMATIC. As the other anon said Ukraine isn't in NATO, the Baltics are in NATO therefore Russia won't dare invade them but despite that very obvious barrier you want to keep finding reasons to tell people it isn't as simple as that. It's like you want them to actually invade it's so stupid you're so stupid

>>63912331
Flip here, that's cause Duterte was a brain addled retard who was fine selling out to chinks. Most of us never even knew about the stuff going on while he was in charge. Looking forward to the royal buttfucking the ICC is going to hand him.
Also they havent really developed scarborough shoal like the other spratly islands under their control, just been bullying fishermen away from getting inside it.
What I don't get is why China have been so heavy handed when we seemed primed to become an ally of theirs under his presidency, there was legit a moment in time where Duterte was considering ditching the US for the Chinks. Instead they went and chimped out during 2024 and turned public opinion sharply against them, when our populace is dumb as fuck and would ostensibly be easy as all hell to psyop.
Maybe they ran the numbers and came to the conclusion we'd never become an ally or something.

63913105
>rusnigger can only think about "master slave" dynamics because that's all it has known all its life

>>63904546
>Most Russian nukes no longer work,
Thats cool. Bet everyone's life on it.

>>63913826
>egyptian
>sandnigger
retarded nigger doesn't know what egyptians looked like KEK.
cats are the white man's pet, egyptians further proved this.