Thread 63910115

Why is Iran planning on buying J-10CEs?
Shouldn't they be urgently investing in modern AD given the recent poor performance against Israeli AF?

>>63910115 (OP)
>why is [middle eastern country] doing something stupid instead of doing something smart?

>>63910122
True, but some things they do are so stupid that even a certified retard wouldn't do it.

>Why is Iran pivoting to the sino-mic after Russia demonstrated they're materially incapable of fulfilling defense needs in a crisis

C'est mysterioso. Indubitably.

>>63910115 (OP)
Why would the Chinese government allow Iran to buy any of their jets, knowing full well they'll face sanctions from the people half their economy is dependent on? Iran can plan on whatever it wants, reality will proceed otherwise.

>>63910147
>knowing full well they'll face sanctions
Sanctions? useless without magnets.

>>63910149
>only the Chinese can make magnets
The Chinese couldn't make shitty ball point pens until a few years ago.

>>63910156
>couldn't
Yes and the US still can't
For most of the world China can replace the US but not vice versa. And guess what, China already is sanctioned to oblivion because the US couldn't compete.

>>63910115 (OP)
Can't use an S400 to bomb Kurds, Azeris, Balochs, or (most dangerous of all) Liberals.

>>63910164
Invade Taiwan then chang.

>>63910164
Is it chink posting hours already?

>>63910177
I'm pretty sure S-400 should have inherited S-300's surface to surface mode, you can in fact bomb civilians with them as Russia has demonstrated

>>63910198
Okay so you technically can but Russian JDAMs are FAR more economical even after the jet totes them to altitude.

>>63910115 (OP)
>Why is Iran planning on buying J-10CEs?
airfields need more sitting ducks

>>63910215
this is the kind of thing F-35's make trivial, they can paint targets for any US AD missiles.

>>63910164
i like Chinese, they only come up to my knees

>>63910232
Irrelevant, Iran's armed forces are primarily for crushing internal rebellions not fighting external conflicts.

>>63910115 (OP)
>Why is Iran planning on buying J-10CEs?
source that's not a random tweet?

>>63910115 (OP)
iran hasnt said anything
if iran does buy J10CEs they would never take off the airfield in a war, israel would eliminate them in the airfield before the war starts.

>>63910232
>for any US AD missiles
how's that going to work for stingers?

>>63910288
delusional.
israel only managed to destroy 15 iranian planes in the 12-day war.

>>63910290
You joke but modern stingers do have datalink that allows for external guidance.

>>63910334
True. They remain undefeated in their tunnels.

>>63910115 (OP)
What modern air defense? The only ones that work as advertised are not available to Iran.
More Russian garbage? Completely untested Chinese systems based on Russian garbage?

>>63910115 (OP)
Lol I can’t wait till the brownskins on /pol/ start seething when these bug jets get mulched before they even take off.

>>63910413
meanwhile in ukraine

>>63910334
when it comes to AD it is indeed delusional there

>>63910287
https://theasialive.com/iran-weighs-j-10c-fighter-acquisition-from-china-as-prolonged-su-35-delays-from-russia-test-tehrans-patience/2025/06/28/

>>63910420
Is this real?

>>63910447
yes
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/04/09/us/politics/leaked-documents-ukrainian-air-defense.html

They're laundering money for whatever it is they bought last week.

It's easy to hide things in the books with procurement because everyone negotiates their own price and you have a lot of add-ons that never make sense cost wise even when you're not engaged in fraud. It must be a fun job trying to hit the magic number by throwing in screw kits and special tires like you work for a US senator campaign for re-election.

>>63910420
>have 82x S-300s instead of Iran's 4x S-300
>S-300 starts to work when actually used as a IADS
color me surprised

>>63910466
wrong.
Iran doesn't have any hard currency left.
Iran would trade oil with China or drones with Russia.

>>63910115 (OP)
Thanks for Rafale.

>>63910115 (OP)

Modern air defence isn't cheap either. A Chinese HQ-9 has about the same unit cost as a J-10CE. If Israel has just proven they can dismantle your ground based air defence, adding another layer isn't an entirely bad idea.

>>63910147
Nobody is going to sanction China. Trust me. They can be genociding what little minorities they have in the open and nothing will happen

>>63910115 (OP)
it's just that russia is unlikely to deliver the su-35s they bought any time soon

>>63910115 (OP)
Fighter jet is also AD

Hell fighter jet is the best AD

>>63910420
imagine going to federal penitentiary for discord clout

>>63910714
>supposedly leading in so much tech fields
>still has to copy everything
kek

>>63910115 (OP)
Because they are retarded. They don't have the technology infrastructure to support them, the security apparatus to keep them safe, or the intelligence network to make them effective. Israel doesn't even need their F-35s for this, watching the Sufas buttfuck them on the runway will be hysterical.

>>63910147
China isn't going to sell them jets, but not because of sanctions fears. China isn't going to sell them jets because they don't want their jets getting destroyed and becoming the latest cope for why Israel is able to clown on Iran.

>>63910115 (OP)
Because they are under sanctions and the only thing they have access to is slavshit (that failed them miserably)? Not that poor copy of (ironically) an Israeli plane from the 80s made in Chyna will help mullahs much.

>>63910115 (OP)
>>63910147
>>63911480
>Trade oil for jets to the only country willing to trade with them
It's called the ONLY OPTION.

>>63910643
>>63911307
You seem to think that China copying is bad for China. They are literally skipping developmental costs. Theres a reason why Hegseth's primary focus is Chinese containment, similar to all previous SecDef's primary focus.

>>63911493
It's the most retarded option. An outdated plane, built on a design of your main enemy, (meaning they know its quirks and limitations) is worse than worthless. With an economy a tenth of Israel, and nowhere near the industrial and technological base, their only realistic option is to deescalate, capitulate and normalize relationships before they end up like Lebanon, Iraq or Syria. That's their only actual sensible option.

>>63911480
False.
Under the terms agreed in the Iran nuclear deal framework, the UN arms embargo expired on 18 October 2020, following which Iran was permitted to purchase foreign weapons and military equipment.

>>63911529
>the UN
Whatever the UN says is worthless and irrelevant. It's the U.S. that determines that through the largest industrial arms complex on the planet, to which all advanced weapons manufacturers are coupled to in some way, shape or form through dependence on critical and non critical systems made or designed in the U.S. and subject to U.S. approval. That's why their only option narrows to slavshit or copies of slavshit, which have failed them miserably, not that Pidorlarnd has any spare capacity to begin with.

>>63911546
UN arms embargo meant that Russia didn't sell to Iran either

>>63911553
That's a non-issue considering that Pidorland can't even supply themselves at the moment. Even if they somehow could, it's still a non-issue since all their kit is demonstrably worthless.

>>63911496
secdef just cancelled new awacs because they aren't survivable against pl-15. china won.

>>63910115 (OP)
Not sure why they would be buying jets, except for conflicts with near-neighbors. Against Israel, asymmetric warfare works much better. Missile spam against an enemy operating under a more restrictive ROE and it is a strategy that Israel is unable to counter long term if Iran can make launchers more survivable.

>>63910115 (OP)
Without a proper air force, all your IADS are just sitting ducks waiting to be SEADed and DEADed

>>63910413
>Completely untested Chinese systems based on Russian garbage?
https://youtu.be/aWk2bsIa3EE?si=O4_LGWS1SFBGpvX7
https://www.twz.com/air/chinas-j-10c-fighter-separating-myth-from-reality

>>63911805
lies.
Ukraine did fine.

>>63910115 (OP)
Because non-totally obsolete(and flyable) fighters are part of a an effective multi-layered air-defense network. They're probably also looking to buy Chinese SAM systems to. Based on how the Pakistani's used both moderately well against India.

The retarded part is that panic buying more modern shit only after you get BTFO'ed is a god awful strategy. And it ignores that the entire regular Iranian military (the Artesh) is horrifically underfunded compared to the Iranian Revolutionary Guard. It turns out that letting your Praetorian Guard play at being JSOC and missile command is pricey, and doesn't leave much for actual conventional warfare.

>>63911840
I bet you are the same retard faggot who posted this >>63912059

>>63910714
That's what they do in their own backyard and in all fairness, why should we give a shit when not even the other muslims do?

What they do outside their borders is a different matter entirely.

>>63910115 (OP)
It doesn't matter because Iran won't let them fly in a conflict. Once a pilot gets into the air, they're able to defect.

>>63911840
against a country that can't do proper SEAD and doesn't have the complex doctrinal expertise, training technology and munitions to carry out a real SEAD campaign.
this argument was already destroyed in that other thread.
air defense in the modern age is complementary to an airforce that can contest the skies for you, in isolation it will always eventually crack and break under an enemy SEAD campaign if it is allowed to continue.
to a defender in a modern conflict, contesting the air from the air is not an option, it is mandatory.
to an attacker in a modern conflict, proper SEAD doctrine and technology are not an option, it is mandatory.

>>63911812
>white monkey propagandist tells me china scary
implessive

>>63910249
>Irrelevant, Iran's armed forces are primarily for crushing internal rebellions not fighting external conflicts.
When was the last time they crushed an internal rebellion?

>>63913786
>Once a pilot gets into the air, they're able to defect.
You know iranians can just leave if they want to, right?

>>63914002
If we're talking full-blown militarized uprisings: 1979, but we see internal unrest every 5 years or so; and the potential for Azeri, Kurdish, Baluch, or Arab separatism is always there.

>>63910334
Note that Israel has provided zero evidence of actually destroying any active Iranian fighters.

Like it was said in the other thread, they should've done that 10 years ago at least.

Pakistan did that and now they have an entire air-defense network and trained personell to use their new Chinese equipment. Which already proven to give great results against a peer adversary.

Iran just now will start doing that and it might not even come into fruition if Israel decided to bomb and their shiny new toys in the airfields.

If they manage to buy an AWACS and J-10C's, it's already a good start, but still not nearly enough to deal with shit like F-35's and F-15EX's.

>>63911496
>You seem to think that China copying is bad for China
it is when your development of fundamentals gets pushed to wayside

>>63915591
>r development of fundamentals gets pushed to wayside
that argument in current year? lmao, go back to the 1990s

>>63915604
why does china still get once in century floods and droughts every year?

>>63915621
Idk anon, maybe hurricanes and storms, that didn't stop them from building the largest HSR network
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Floods_in_the_United_States_(2000%E2%80%93present)

>>63915591
As a kino connoisseur i can attest to this in the medium of film and animation. China, unlike their other neighbours from the stuff I watched their style or implementation of editing and pacing were simply off and were the rare occurrences I’d give up watching and move on. Someone suggested it was the language and culture difference but I’d blame poor fundamentals as other places don’t seem to have that issue.

>>63910334
they destroyed a lot more
also pic related is the iranian airfield in tabriz right now. all their military airfield runways were blown up before the planes could take off this is one of the reason none of their military planes were in the air at any point in the war

>>63910115 (OP)
Your pic is a J-10A though.

>>63915072
the vehicule move so much, how could that thing be accurate?

>>63910334
>Airforce so outdated you have it retreat or hide on contact with the enemy
>They bomb you with impunity
>But most of your barely flight worthy and combat ineffectual airforce is preserved

>>63916938
The gun is stabilized, you can see on the video.

>>63910115 (OP)
they want to give israel some poetic justice

>>63910115 (OP)
AD is not enough, you can just saturate it with large number of weapons
>why J-10
their only other option is russia and they won't get modern shit because they are an unreliable ally, refused to sign a defense treaty and provide substantial aid, ripped russia off on shahed tech transfer, also their counterintelligence is such a joke 53rd TEG would probably get an airworthy Su-57 within a few years of delivery
and china is just willing to stir the shitstorm a bit because it keeps the US engaged and way from Taiwan

>>63910164
Parker-Jotter is half american idiot.

>>63916678
Airfields are extremely difficult to knockout from the air, its why the Ukies still have airfields. Iranians didn't use their planes because they knew they were severely outmatched and that's why the Israelis didn't down any of their fighters.

>>63911307
>still has to copy everything
Chinese researchers in the West passing notes to their cousins back home isn't exactly copying. Even so, your stereotypes are like a decade out of date.

>>63919386
>using imported tips
And probably imported dies to make the plastics parts because the US can't into that kind of things.

>>63910147
>from the people half their economy is dependent on
Nigger, what decade did you time travel from? That hasn't been true since 2015, when the US half-assed sanctions and China took it seriously, and became world class at almost everything over the next decade. And frankly US R&D couldn't work without Chinese grad students grinding as science coolies nonetheless attracted to the US standard of living (which is going to shit). They can fuck off any time.

>>63910115 (OP)
We're watching the equivalent of an Arma 3 Warlords match where CSAT bombs AAC airfield and NATO keeps spawning aircraft only for it to be destroyed before leaving the runway.

>>63919897
Gotta love the balancing they did on that.
>Oh just give one side total air superiority from the get go, in a game where a single jet can kill 4 tanks in 30 seconds, while never being in the engagement zone of the AA. They'll figure it out

>>63919397
The Ukranians still have airfields because Russian "guided" weapons have an abysmal CEP. for any proper modern airforce hitting a large static object with high precision is a solved problem. double, triple and quadropoly so with modern munitions like SDBs, you basically close and airfield in one single pass from stand off ranges.

>>63910115 (OP)
>sells jets to iran
>gets matched against pissed off kike f35
>gets absolutely btfo
>we get our first footage of chinkshit plane getting shot down

please do china

>>63920643
>chinkshit plane getting shot down
That would require it ever getting in the air in the first place, which Israel, being not-Arab, isn't retarded enough to let happen.

>>63910164
>For most of the world China can replace the US but not vice versa
Other than as a source of purchasing finished products, China's economy is a dead end for a lot of countries, which is why the US dwarfs China in terms of FDI inflows. China isn't as attractive or safe a place to do business as the US.

>>63919397
they couldnt take off given the large hole in the runway done by a mk84 bomb