I'm going to be honest, until the urkaine war, I didnt know these things were so OP. It's almost cheating.
Can planes like the F35 and other stealth new generation fighters go close enough to destroy them?

?
E7 literally just got cancelled because it's not survivable at all. any long-range a2a will be their death. you don't need stealth.

>>63915203
by hegseth, a druggy who doesn't know a thing about military aircraft.

>>63912645 (OP)
>until the urkaine war, I didnt know these things were so OP.
?
russia stopped using awacs because ukraine's patriots outrange them and awacs unlike fighter jets can't evade a patriot missile.

>>63915223
Yeah bud, he did it personally. He is the only guy at the Pentagon. Has the whole building to himself.

>>63915272
he literally did. usaf was against it but secdef overruled them. normally secdefs do not interfere with the service branches.

>>63912645 (OP)
PL-15 can easily shoot this down

>>63912645 (OP)
Long range missiles are the best way to deal with them, this is why ramjet missiles are in fashion.

>>63915272
Hegseth has received widespread criticism from generals of all branches for making these kinds of retarded decisions without (or against) the advice of the general staff. His response to this criticism was the decision to broadly decrease the number of general officer positions, probably targeting those critical of him, so it's doubtful that his habits have improved recently.

>>63915434
who's providing the target lock for those long-range missiles?

Why not AWACS on a stealthy bird instead?

>>63915456
Against a converted airliner? Pretty much any long range radar.

>>63915446
We have literally quotes
>Air Force Chief of Staff Gen. David Allvin responded that the Wedgetail cancelation amounted to a “difficult decision” that was made by the Defense Department.
When CSAF, the military head of the USAF, says Defense Department, he's not talking about Department of the Air Force, but the Office of the Secretary of Defense.
Keep in mind that most procurement decisions get decided within the branch/their department.
Him specifically calling out Defense Department - which is a separate layer of bureaucracy and supervision above the branches - is telling. He didn't say this was a Department of AF decision. He said it was a Defense Department decision, which is where decisions on budgetary disputes get made, and where they can overrule lower decisions.

>>63915457
Cost and lack of need until now.
There was no point making a stealth AWACS that is 300km behind the fighters when the longest range missiles were 50km. Now were are staring to see 300km range missiles the options are stealth AWACS that will cost billions per or put better radars in the fighters.

>>63915457
>>63915477
Please be trolling. You can't possibly be this stupid.

jobs program for spacex

>>63915519
Elaborate, anti-radiation isn't a viable guidance system against an AWACS as they will see it coming and stop emitting so what do you mean?

>>63915446
>received widespread criticism from generals
>His response to this criticism was the decision to broadly decrease the number of general officer positions,
or maybe he's received criticism from people he was going to fire, and then did fire

>>63915627
Omg he is really this retarded.

>>63915756
So you can't elaborate?

>>63915203
>It's not survivable
And yet they think the fucking E-2, which has a weaker radar, a shorter effective flight range, lower speed, and a reduced flight ceiling, is better at that?

>>63915774
Bro long-range awacs killer missiles fly at hypersonic speeds basically outside of the atmosphere and then hammer down on the target.
They cover several 100 miles in a minute or two.
How fucking far do you think a fucking subsonic AWACS heap of shit plane can move in a minute?
Newsflash: Not fucking far.
You could use both really short wavelength radar or optical in thermal band to keep tracking it. Above the clouds optical will be literally flawless, and if the awacs has to not only turn off it's radar, but also dive to the deck and run away, lmao then firing the missile was worth it already because your AWACS is gone and the enemy gets to shit on your blind fighters for free bro.
With modern multiseeker missiles, for which there is a lot of space in a long-range missile, you could easily even chase that down to the deck.
There's plenty of radar frequency ranges against stealth works poorly and you only need a relatively short range for terminal guidance.
Fuck against a target the size of an awacs diving to the deck while a missile rains down on it you could do SAR against the ground and target the mysterious hole in the ground that's moving at a couple 100 knts.
It's like you fucking retards are larping boomers and think in terms of electronics and avonics of the 70's.

Chinks already announced years ago that they're putting datalink, modern GaN AESA and optical all into one missile.
Ain't no hiding from that.

It's like you are totally and utterly clueless of how any of these dynamics work, otherwise you wouldn't be able to come up with these incredibly retarded ideas.

>>63916176
it's an interim solution while they wait for their space based system to come online

>>63916288
Who does anything you just said contradict >>63915477

>>63915223
r-37m literally is named an awacs killer
technically even kinzhal can kill one if its flying "low"
then its pl1
aam 4b or 8b cant remember
and ofc meteor

i was gonna say aim 260 but the way its going its prob gonna get slapped to the ground

>>63912645 (OP)
>I'm going to be honest, until the urkaine war, I didnt know these things were so OP
So you're a tourist.

>>63916448
R37m is a shit missile lol
>khinzal can kill one
right, so you have a toddler's understanding of how missiles work.

>>63916603
>right, so you have a toddler's understanding of how missiles work.

>R37m is a shit missile lol


yeah....

>>63916607
Yep.

>>63915203
Oh right, so when do you guys drop your carriers and all your surface boat because of the Chinks hypersonic wunderwaffen?

>>63916448
You'd have to get within a 100 nm of it, with proper closing angle and speed to even have a tiny window of opportunity to actually splash it... Basically, like in the past, present, and forseeable future. This threat is not new. To have so many sycophante morons surrounding a POTUS is, on another hand, quite new.

>>63916448
>>63915203
>>63916288
this is chinkistani/ziggeroid propaganda

>>63916841
Imagine having such a frail ego that you literally cannot admit that your country isn't top dog in some area lmao.

>>63916864
it's one thing to have a frail ego and to believe that muh R-37 is a good missile on par/better than Western tech, or to hold such fantastical beliefs like cringezhal shooting down an AWACS
just face it, you're a fucking retard who holds some stupid beliefs simply because it allows you dunk on the evil degenerate West or something

>>63915203
>E7 literally just got cancelled because
the Government Accountability Office recently estimated the price of developing the two E-7s had grown to $3.6 billion—a 33 percent increase—and said the U.S. Wedgetail’s first flight had slipped by nine months to May 2027. The first set of combat-ready jets was slated to be in place by 2032

>>63916448
>r-37m literally is named an awacs killer
much like cope cages were literally named Javelin killers once upon a time

>>63916448
my nigga, the "moskva" was the designated carrier killer and it was advertised as the nightmare of every navy and blablablablabla. What happened to it? All I'm saying is don't take these considerations all that seriously. Do not over estimate and ofcourse never under estimate. Now fuck off.

>>63916817
oh god

>you have to be close to 200km from it to have a chance of hitting it
>because if you lock it from 300km away and continue giving data to the missile is a very alien thing to do because somehow a plane with an rcs of a city cant be locked in
>>63916946
and?
what kind of logic is that LOL

>>63917002
the point is don't be a fucking slave of niggers that cry nicknames and buzzwords.

>>63915627
>anti-radiation isn't a viable guidance system against an AWACS as they will see it coming and stop emitting so what do you mean?

so then you defeated the awacs retard
if the awacs turns off, ITS OVER
and its the same "mission kill" all the same

>>63917223
>just turns it back on after 1 minute

>>63916448
>r-37m literally is named an awacs killer
And how many awacs it has killed so far?

>>63917252
>just turns it back on after 1 minute
*fires another missile* rinse, repeat

>>63917268
"No fly zone" status?

>>63916301
Funny thing about stopgaps in military procurement, they tend to become very fucking permanent because the fancy-shmancy system they're waiting on fails to materialise. The satellite system is conceptually retarded and I'm pretty sure anyone in the Air Force command structure knows this.

>>63917280
>flick radar on and off
>in ten minutes enemy runs out of R-37Ms
jej

yeah they're OP for clapping some ziggers but now they're getting close to being obsolete for an actually serious fight. they're going to be replaced by a network of assets. many sensor drones replacing one big plane.

>>63917291
You can't kill our awacs if we have none

>>63916448
>is literally named an awacs killer
by the country that made it, which also tried to fanfic their own NATO callsign for the SU-57 because the real one wouldn't have sounded scary enough and they are literally toddlers.

>>63917320
>You can't kill our awacs if we have none
so why doenst nato just "NO FLY ZONE" the fuck out of ukraine??

seems trivial at this point...right?

>>63915733
Sure? Seems to be justified given how unqualified Mr I'll-Stop-Drinking-If-You-Make-Me-SecDef is.

>>63917570
it is trivial, but nato isn't part of this conflict and doesn't want to be

>>63915457
>i need to see people at night, so I'm going to carry around this huge flashlight
>but i don't want people to see me so I'm going to wear all black
foolproof plan

>>63917724
>"Sir, we're being blinded by a flashlight!"
"Well, what the fuck are you waiting for? Shoot the guy who's holding it!"
>"That's the thing, sir! No one's holding it!"
"My God...a haunted flashlight! Sound the retreat, soldier!"

>>63917719
>it is trivial, but nato isn't part of this conflict and doesn't want to be
hmm nato itself doesnt seem to believe that...

>>63918170
If NATO was involved, the war would have long been over. You seem brown.

>>63917268
>ukraine is knows to have at least 50 awacs

>>63918210
>If NATO was involved, the war would have long been over. You seem brown

it seems nato was involved to the extent its leadership believes that its failure to depose the Putin regime, or force Russia into a "defeat" condition would spell the end for the alliance
nato leadership has repeatedly re-iterated this stance, many time in global media

>>63918227
NATO wargame in 2021 showed how Poland will collapse under zigger offensive in 3 days

>>63916176
>>63916301
>>63917302
Not to be a faggot and mass reply, but I live in an area where they are doing tests with an E-2. I posted it in the flight tracking thread a while back that an ex-ROKAF British Aerospace Hawk Mk.67 is sent up with the E-2 and then a series of exercises are done over the ocean. This has been ongoing for a few years, but I can tell you that the E-2 seems to be modified, but the changes are slight (specifically the tailhook is removed, the intakes have been changed and some tail components have been swapped). No clue if this is the beginning of a new variant of upgrade or not, but it is interesting to see. I have some pictures, if you guys want, but they are low res.

>>63918259
>NATO wargame in 2021 showed how Poland will collapse under zigger offensive in 3 days
sounds about right, the average euro nation would be measured in hours, not days,

there wouldnt be enough brooms / handles to go around in germany or the uk.
garden tools would be seized nationwide to arm the volksturms with *something* to fend off the Russo-shovel corps with

if your "fighter" isnt also its own AWACS....

IT HAS NO FUTURE

so dedicated AWACS like this will eventually be phased out to drones and fighters

>>63915457
the whole point of stealth is so people can't see or detect your plane
awacs can't be stealthy because the whole point of awacs is to be an airborne radar which broadcasts your location to everybody
same reason why submarines don't go around blasting active sonar all the time

>>63918361
>implying that fighters are not going to be replaced

>>63918377
>if your MISSILE TRUCK isnt also its own AWACS
>IT HAS NO FUTURE

ftfy

>>63918334
The point I was making is that NATO wargames do not necessarily represent reality. Poland would not have collapsed against ziggers in 2021.

>>63918371
So why not.. turn the radar off at various intervals or something? Being invisible for 90% of the time is still pretty valuable, no?
On > check for targets > none found > Off for another 30 seconds.
Then just keep the radar on if you find a target and have a platform close enough to launch a missile.

>>63918483
sounds like a 'loitering munitions" target-of-opportunity

>>63917570
it's the opposite of trivial.
what's trivial is for russian gbad and fighters to attack you from russian soil.

>>63918361
do you even know what AWACS stands for?
do you know that most crew in a AWACS does the C part.
a fighter pilot is already busy flying her fighter.

>>63918706
>it's the opposite of trivial.
so nato couldnt force a "no-fly" zone if it wanted???
I mean thats what we saw in reality....

>>63918713
>do you even know what AWACS stands for?
>do you know that most crew in a AWACS does the C part.
>a fighter pilot is already busy flying her fighter.

lmao, wild guess, but you have any idea what the 2nd C-eat *checks notes* i mean SEAT is for?

>>63918727
>lmao, wild guess, but you have any idea what the 2nd C-eat *checks notes* i mean SEAT is for?
so you have no idea

>>63918727
hi helmettard
calm down, shush shush, lower your heartrate.

>>63918762
holy fuck the fighter/awac combo of the future will only need to do a fraction of what the passenger jet-sized AWACS does, and will be equipped with "more advanced and automated" systems that reduce the workload to something the 2nd seater can manage

how fucking stupid are you?

>>63918800
haha, no.
you're not dividing that workload between two people, one of which also needs to fly the aircraft, no matter how much sensor fusion you use.
AWACS isn't just a simple spotter aircraft, it's supposed to be a command and control center that oversees the entire airspace, and deconflicts possible friendly fire as well as directing strategy across the entire battlespace.
you can get away with doing this duty in an F35 if you divy it up between a group of aircraft, 2 people are not gonna pull that off, no matter how hard AI is invoked as a buzzword.

>>63918832
>you're not dividing that workload between two people
except, *YES* they in fact, are

the Mig-31 was an early example of precisely this tactic, which is the essential underlying concept of all competant "6th gen" platforms
>huge,high, fast flying mini-AWACS with enormous missiles (that also AWACS themselves)

>>63918848
>except *yes*
helmettard...you're not, look buddy, i know you're in your manic state right now, so you think you're a genius and anything is possible, but this is not gonna happen and if it did, chinks would not be the ones to pull it off, which is why it's weird that you keep posting images of that shrinkwrap 4.5 gen.
>the mig-31
was not related to anything we were talking about and this is your manic state affecting your ability to see rationally again, you see patterns EVERYWHERE right now because of your mental condition but it's not legitimate, helmettard.

christ, you haven't had it this bad in quite a while, have you bud? i genuinely thought you were improving because i hadn't seen any melties from you in a while, this is sad.

>>63918800
>>63918848
Gronk, is this real?

>>63918899
see: https://desuarchive.org/k/thread/62651493/#62660280
this guy's been diagnosed before.

>>63918910
Holy kek

>>63918910
i will not use the word mindbroken as lightly as i have been ever again.
this helmettard fellow is what a truly broken person looks like.

>>63915223
did you miss how A-50s were performing against a near peer enemy with ancient S-200s?

>>63919069
>a-50's
so old analog soviet shit
>against a neer peer enemy
a russian asset, straying too close to ukrainian defense systems out of arrogance?
say it aint so.

>>63919094
A-50U was more modern than E-3D, not that it matters
>too close
they were in normal patrol areas 200km away from the frontline and 250-300km from air defense units, they detected incoming fire but did not evade in time because those are large, slow, subsonic platforms with limited speeds and descent rates
where do you want to fly instead, at the edge of the lookdown detection range so it contributes absolutely nothing to RAP?

people here keep talking about shit in a vacuum like idiots. can you kill an AWACS with missile x in a 1v1 scenario? sure. will you ever get that scenario? no. next question.

>>63919132
>A-50U was more modern than E-3D
no it wasn't.
>they were in normal patrol areas 200 km away from the frontline and 250-300 km from air-defense units
if they were gonna be there, they should've had some SEAD elements combing around to make sure nothing was sneaking up on them, something russia can't do because they suck at SEAD.

>>63917002
If you lock the AWACS, the AWACS knows it... Even a TWR/RWR track is enough... And Home on Emission launch isn't effective by any means, especially on a moving target, considering the missile's radar. At +150 km, all she has to do is move away from the hostile spike, change heading two or three times, maybe altitude in the worst case scenario, and that should be enough to kill the missile's energy. You still have to get close to dramatically increase your chance.

>>63919260
there is nothing to SEAD, it was a well prepared ADA ambush
no advance intel about deployments, no warning indications and suddenly an illuminator turns on and you're basically dead if you're not a fighter jet that can drop 30kft in a minute
you could argue that semi active seekers are easier to jam but a peer opponent to the US would use active seekers

>>63918483
Could we just settle with "It doesn't work like that"?

uh oh, awacs sisters, things are not looking too good
>E-7 cancelled

>>63919174
you are the idiot ignoring real life

>>63916890
I always chuckle at people that bring you "cost overruns" forgetting that those same dollars are subject to inflation and the true labor price often barely changes.
The bongs keep seething about HS2 increasing after the pandemic too despite the huge covid money printing.

>>63919427
>I always chuckle at people that bring you "cost overruns" forgetting that those same dollars are subject to inflation and the true labor price often barely changes.
actually, you are the one forgetting that procurement costs already include inflation.
gao actually assumed a higher inflation in their initial estimates.

>>63917570
Kiev in two weeks, amirite?

>>63919417
>russian -> english

that's all i needed to read, zigger. keep your schizobabble to yourself.

>>63919506
>Kiev in two weeks, amirite?
lmao, this was keev 48hrs into "no nato"

>>63919515
>usaf doesn't know how to use awacs correctly
>vvs doesn't know how to use awacs correctly
>i do
sure, schizo

>>63919515
this is an opinion of a retired VKS senior officer
your credentials are?

>>63916890
>aim-54 was literally named a bomber killer
ohhh i bet they stopped making bombers because of that

>>63919535
>flexing that you embarrassingly lost the easiest win possible
sad showing helmettard

>>63919285
what on earth are you on about
yes obviously the aircraft data keeps feeding it its not like the awacs poses any threat to the aircraft and it has to bank cold it can maintain lock for much longer

>>63917570
>so why doenst nato just "NO FLY ZONE" the fuck out of ukraine??
Because our leaders are cowards.

>>63919427
as a career beancounter, this sort of thing often makes me just switch off and go away inside
>kinda like what they say rape victims do
it's basically just denial and deflection at a high level
same issues with the Constellation class

>>63919496
>gao actually assumed a higher inflation
son, the footnote spells it out right there: that is only for ONE (1) program out of thirty (30) assessed in your screenshot

>>63915456
When you're dealing with something the suze of a city block eith more radiation than everything else in the sky combined, you can just point a guidance system in its general direction and the missile can lock on on its own.

>>63915457
The amount of signal radiation these things put out makes trying to make them stealthy pointless.