russo ukrainian war art

>>63925783 (OP)
(2/10)

3/10
the white borders are because i couldn't be bothered to convert the pictures from webp format properly so i just took a screenshot

4/10

5/10

6/10

7/10

8/10

9/10

>>63925783 (OP)

10/10. that's all from me

>>63925783 (OP)
This picture from very early on is so on-the-nose I thought it was on purpose.

>>63925830
of course it was on purpose. someone had to frame that shot - camera pictures don't appear out of thin air you know

>>63925837
Well, yeah. But I mean everything looked staged. Even so it's a great picture.

>>63925811
>david_bowie_stealing_animals.jpg

Who's the artist?

>>63925881
apparently https://t.me/s/desastresguerra

>>63925901
>zigger artist
Of course it is. He's even selling patches. I thought that the paintings looked really "Russian" (for the lack of a better adjective) at the first glance, that's why I asked. It's these themes:
>Gloomy and depressive colors
>Suffering and death (literal dance with the death in one painting)
>Decay and adversity
>Mysterious subject whose soul is bright who endures the darkness and pain (MVH RVSSIAN SOVL VGH...)
>Subject(s) shown as enduring
>Subject(s) shown caring for animals
>Subject(s) shown as brave/mighty/strong

It's so on the nose. You can really tell how the artist wanted to make the juxtaposition between suffering and moments of light in his work but fuck it's so painfully Russian and on the nose. Not to mention that the paintings are really fucking boring.

>>63925945
cringe post

>>63925945
>nooo you cant like it a russian made it nooooooooooo
>>63926029
shuplyak draws well. what you posted, on the other hand, looks like AI slop
I found this work by him on his website (https://shupliak.art/gallery/2022) where you can actually make out what's going on. maybe this is the original?

>>63925815

>>63926108
here is another one by him. i like this one more personally; it's more like what he usually draws, and it isn't cringe.

>>63926108
>>63926126
as an aside, if you look at shuplyak's gallery from 2023 onward, it's like he either forgot about the war or stopped caring about it. or maybe he decided that he had made enough "slava ukraini" art and decided to go back to his regular stuff

>>63925791
>>63925811
>Donbabwian dinner

rybar has a fuckload of z art, apparently commemorating every town and city captured: https://rybar.ru/art/epizody-pobedy/#
picrel is artemovsk formerly bahmut
my guess is that these were put together in photoshop with heavy use of filters and retouching to make them look more "artistic" and less like photographs, if that makes sense. i don't think it's ai because ai doesnt draw guns that well

>>63926193
this one is mariupol. i wonder whether someone made art about mariupol's reconstruction yet

>>63926208
apparently not. however there are monuments to russian soldiers (here is one being unveiled)
>>63926193
>>63926208
i am indifferent to these. there's not really much artistic value - the pieces exist simply to have a high-res artistic-looking image to go along with the statement "we captured ukrainian city xyz"

>>63926208
>>63926193
>unironically posting trashy propaganda posters as "art"
kek

>>63926108
>>nooo you cant like it a russian made it nooooooooooo
It's not that. It's just shit art, and terribly Russian at that. One must ask why you created this thread to dump "cool" Russian war art on /k/. To epically troll le /k/opers with an underhanded tactic or something? You even have another anon ITT who reposts Rybar's propaganda posters (unless it's you yourself).

>>63926345
>and terirbly russian at that
Just stop, dude.

>>63925823
I have a really hard time if this guy is pro or anti russia/pro or anti the war

>>63925783 (OP)

>>63925783 (OP)
OP I have this one webm, I consider it a really great art as itself. And it's also Russian!

>>63926384
kek

>>63926350
Stop what, my critique of poorly executed and shit art? Don't think I will.

>>63926108
get this angsty teen shit (ziggers) outta here

>>63926350
He's right you know, this art is pretentious and boring
t. russian

>>63926327
the same can be said about these:
>63926134
>63926139
>63926144
>63926147
>63926386
>63926391
they're all a declaration of "event xyz happened! slava <our team>" thinly veiled as art. it has about the same artistic value as your average basedjak (one literally is a basedjak)
honorable mention goes to
>>63926029
>>63926108
it's not about a particular event but there is no message except "we good they bad".

>>63926345
>It's just shit art,
meanwhile just about everything else itt is glorified 'jakking
>and terribly Russian at that
the things you listed as being "russian" also apply to the pro-ua art:
>>63926126
>>63926152
you are a cretin masquerading as a highbrow art critic

>>63926431
where's the line between propaganda posters and true art? there's definitely a lot of great art that's just commemorating a victory of one kind or another, and it would be unfair to dismiss it just for that being its primary message

>>63926431
>they're all a declaration of "event xyz happened! slava <our team>" thinly veiled as art. it has about the same artistic value as your average basedjak
Bit ironic. I hope you have the self-awareness and analytical skills to realize it.
>t's not about a particular event but there is no message except "we good they bad"
Your "art", it it can even be called that, has the message of
>muh russian soul...
in the first 10 pics you posted and
>look how we conquered these towns aren't we based and cool
in the case of the Rybar reposts. Don't throw stones when you live in a glass house.

>meanwhile just about everything else itt is glorified 'jakking
BUT WHATABOUT THIS!!???!!!??
We're discussing pretentious and shitty art that you posted. It's your fucking thread. I don't care about what other anons post ITT to rile you up.

>the things you listed as being "russian" also apply to the pro-ua art:
BUT WHATABOUT THIS???!!!! x2
Just kill yourself. You wouldn't know good art if it hit you in the head, not that you had any bona fide want to show /k/ cool war art you just happened to fond on telegram from a zigger artist. You're a zigger and your thread is really transparent.

The only good art itt is this >>63926139 because I love planes

>random traffic cam manages to capture perfect photograph worthy of being turned into a painting

>>63926445
>where's the line between propaganda posters and true art?
Certainly not in trashy propaganda posters that were most likely produced by retouching a photograph in Photoshop to make it look like a pseudo-painting. Intent also matters in art (some argue that it matters the most). I'll leave it to you to figure out the intent behind the Rybar posters and why they were posted ITT in the first place.

>>63926466
okay this one is art for sure

>>63926466
>But then....

>>63926455
>>muh russian soul...
expressing oneself and one's culture is one of the primary purposes of art. if this art expresses the "russian soul" then that would be a good thing and not a bad thing in this case, since a russian made that art
>muh whataboutism
this is already gay as fuck, and you bringing up "pot calling the kettle black" earlier makes it 3 times gayer

>>63926523
>expressing oneself and one's culture is one of the primary purposes of art.
Very, very debatable.

>if this art expresses the "russian soul" then that would be a good thing and not a bad thing in this case, since a russian made that art
It does it very lazily. It's not clever, it's not surprising, it's just fucking boring and bland. It's done by various forms of ziggerstanians since 1600s. It's shit and boring art.

>this is already gay as fuck, and you bringing up "pot calling the kettle black" earlier makes it 3 times gayer
You really have no self-awareness, do you? You're such a fucking faggot. Whataboutism is a type of zigger argument in which the zigger, that is (You), accuses the other side of hypocrisy. "Why do you criticize me of shit art when le heckin' hohols post shit art?!?!?!? There's even hekkin basedjaks?!?!?". Calling whataboutist arguments out might make me triple-gay, but you defaulting to a retarded whataboutist defense in the first place is the act of a flamboyant hypocritical faggot.

How about we keep posting art? Rather than criticism of art?

>>63926247
statues should have stopped at greco-roman style

>>63926487
>>63926491

Honestly if Thomas Kinkade was still alive, I'd seriously consider starting a crowdfunding campaign to get him to try his hand at war/military art for once and reproduce (his commissions could cost >$10,000 at the height of his career).

>>63926552
>It's not clever, it's not surprising, it's just fucking boring and bland
asserted 3 times with ZERO justification. sure sign of a midwit pretending to be an art critic

>Whataboutism is a type of argument in which the one side accuses the other side of hypocrisy
you said
>Don't throw stones when you live in a glass house.
THAT is a whataboutism [WHATABOUT YOUR STUFF]
you are a walking contradiction and a retarded faggot
>>63926562
whatever value this could have had was ruined by it being low-value ai slop unfortunately

>>63926599
>asserted 3 times with ZERO justification.
I justified my view in my very first post, you retarded doublefaggot.
>you are a walking contradiction and a retarded faggot
You're again incredibly ironic and you still don't realize it. Fuck you're stupid, and you even have the gall to call others midwits.
>whatever value this could have had was ruined by it being low-value ai slop unfortunately
It's much cleverer than the boring shit that you've posted so far. Imagine posting so fucking bad art that even someone prompting an AI can do better than your bland and boring trash that you just so happened to find on telegram that just so happened to be from a pro-RU artist.

>>63925783 (OP)

>>63926608
>I justified my view in my very first post
only a very gullible or feeble-minded person would call that justification.
>It's much cleverer than the boring shit that you've posted so far
is it? but more importantly, it doesn't matter which piece is more "clever". cleverness isn't the metric by which the vast majority of people judge art. indeed, pieces like the black square by whoeverthefuck and the preserved shark in the box by whoeverthefuck_2 are generally ridiculed rather than praised

>>63926633
>only a very gullible or feeble-minded person would call that justification.
Look, you can try to play these wordgames, but I justified my critical view of this shitty art in my very post. We can disagree or agree with the critique's merits or the quality of my arguments, but I will not accept this thirdie-tier relativistic play with words. Words have meaning.
>cleverness isn't the metric by which the vast majority of people judge art.
Yeah, they judge it by aesthetics and craftmanship, which the bland and boring shit you gobble up also lacks.

>>63925783 (OP)
Oleg Shupliak, The Great Battle of Ukraine with Mordor, 2022

>>63926562
>>63926608
>>63926654
You've been posting the same lazy ai dogshit in recent art threads and cried like a little bitch when called out
>aesthetics and craftsmanship
404 not found. post real art and not some dogshit a soulless machine shit out for you

did the op artist even serve or is he just some guro fag making le dark and grim art! war is hell, did you not know?

Angelina (12), Where my thoughts are when I am safe

>>63926670
Shit is too blurry to understand, 0/10

Diana (10), For our freedom!

A Ukrainian child's artwork depicting a tank and a house on fire in the "Children of War" exhibit at the Ukrainian Institute of Modern Art in Chicago, Illinois.

>>63926681
>You've been posting the same lazy ai dogshit in recent art
>You
I've not posted a single fucking art pic in this thread or in other art threads. Stop thinking that your hallucinations are real you stupid faggot.
>404 not found. post real art and not some dogshit a soulless machine shit out for you
Exactly, post art that has worth and good aesthetics, not this bland and boring shit that you've posted so far, you seething little bitch. Baby can't even handle a bit of criticism, is your ego that frail?

It's zigger art but pretty impressive considering it was made within like a week of the start of the invasion.

>>63926695
It's also hilarious that the zigger piece's message got BTFO as fast. I can't take these Russian army hype pieces seriously anymore. Not after three and half years of special needs operation.

Unknown Ukrainan child artist

>>63926701

Got a bunch of the details wrong too. Mi-24s haven't been used in the transport role in decades. To my recollection, they weren't even present during the initial landing at Hostomel, the assault was made with Mi-17s escorted by Ka-52s.

>>63926706

Same aura

>>63926721

This one's one of my favorites.

The “Mom, I Don’t Want War” exhibit is part of a joint Polish-Ukrainian project, featuring children’s art made in Poland during World War II and the German occupation from 1939 – 1944, compared to children’s art from Ukraine created during its current war with Russia. (WTTW News)

>>63925783 (OP)
Thanks for sharing, OP.

>>63926740
He can share his zigger shit in Hell

>>63926694
Sounds like you're the one that had his ego bruised and is crying like a little baby. you wouldn't have this problem if you posted real art instead of trash you fed to an image generator aspie-kun :)

Maria Moskalyova's secondary school reported her drawings to authorities

A Russian girl who made international headlines for her anti-war drawings has been removed from a group home by her estranged mother, authorities said on Thursday.

In early March, officials sent 13-year-old Maria Moskalyova to an orphanage and separated her from her single father, Alexei Moskalyov.

Her father was convicted of discrediting the Russian armed forces and sentenced to two years in prison after his daughter drew a sketch at school in support of Ukraine.

Russia's children's rights commissioner, Maria Lvova-Belova, who is wanted by the International Criminal Court (ICC), said that she had spoken to the girl's mother who had collected her from social care. The move happened just hours before a court was due to hold a hearing over depriving Moskalyov of the custody of his child.

"[Maria] did not want to go to her mother at first, and her opinion is legally required to be taken into account. Now her position has changed – she told me this herself on the phone," Lvova-Belova said.
Maria's father, Alexei Moskalyov, fled house arrest last week after Russian court handed him a two-year sentence for discrediting the Russian army. He was detained in in the Belarusian capital Minsk two days after he fled "upon request of the Russian police".

Last year, Maria drew a picture in a school art class last year that showed Russian missiles flying towards Ukraine and the slogans "Glory to Ukraine" and "No to Putin, no to war".

https://www.dw.com/en/russian-girl-in-anti-war-art-case-given-to-mother-official/a-65245673

>>63926767
>Maria Moskalyova's secondary school reported her drawings to authorities

winrar

>>63925830

>>63926750
Jesus, do you know how to post anything else except projection?
>:)
lol u mad

>>63926695
simple drawings by ukranian kids smack the shit out of this xigger militarist garbage

And people keep saying that balkanization of pidorsan would be a bad thing, imagine all the gloomy and soulful art after 15 years of civil war

Humiliation ritual. Would make for an interesting patch also.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTjjj0JN5i4

Many such cases.

>>63927009
bye bye serbnigger

>>63927012

>>63925783 (OP)
>>63925786
>>63925791
>>63925797
>>63925801
>>63925804
>>63925807
>>63925811
>>63925814
>>63925823
this is actually excellent art, but the message is fundamentally hollow because it expects you to feel pity for individuals whose fate is entirely their own fault. TZD and fuck off

>>63926654
I took an effort to read through your retarded 30iq spergout that pretends to be a cohesive breakdown. Both ukie and zigger artpieces are gloomily fascinating and introspective conveying a certain context and giving an insight on the creator’s way of thinking and the cultural context he draws ideas from. Stifle your feefees and go cry on /ic/ for what I care you feeble faggot

I like this one

>>63925783 (OP)

This is art too

>>63927076
bye bye

>>63927150

>>63927113
Mariupolstatus? Saved!

>>63927180
you forgot to namefag serbnigger

>>63927181
Liberated?

>>63925830
/thread (but do continue)

>>63927186
Not your boogeyman my nigga. Ask janny for my ip

>>63927057
Its okay, its just an IQ thing. Generally, low iq individuals have a harder time understanding empathy or complex situations such as a large scale war. If I was in the same boat as you, I should cheer on the deaths of Americans that invaded Iraq on false evidence. I dont, because even though it was an unjust war I feel pity and empathy for people tricked into it by their government.
-Dimitri, midwest oblast

>>63926730
Needs a BBC.

>>63927068
Isn't there one like this with the Mryia flying in the sky over a little girl? I swear I saw it but I've never been able to find it

>>63925783 (OP)
holy cunt r*ssian art is so cringe
>oh woe is me (((((((

>>63926695
>https://danbooru.donmai.us/posts?tags=jeffholy+&z=5

sharing some stuff etc i love and would like to have as high res posters

>>63927397

>>63927406

>>63926108
>nooo you cant like it a russian made it nooooooooooo
Correct, 99% of russian-made stuff is propaganda. Simple as. Even people who aren't directly paid by the state (most in fact are), often reproduce the propaganda because they were brought up in it and don't even notice the fucked up crap they broadcast onto the world.

>>63927415

>>63927422
>russkiy mir

>>63925801
Good luck on the next iteration boys, hope you get a waifu and something other than this fucking clownworld
>wonders how to keep sales after highers up jacked up tariffs and put a karen in charge of the unit.

>>63927428

>>63927440

>>63927444

>>63927450

>>63926733
Thanks, Doc.

>>63927458

>>63927469

>>63927458
It's telling that they aren't depicted as being the same height anymore. They've accepted their position as the junior partner, finally.

>>63927482
lol, lmao

>>63927068
is real

>>63927501
original

>>63927482
>We have the power to stop the war
russian FSB arrested Andrei Zhvakin immediately after this. he died in detention March 2024

>>63927509
>DELTA
last for today

>>63927519
>I'll never a girl like that
why even exist

>>63926730
OnlyFans? So I can contribute to the Ukrainian war fund.

>>63927301
I feel empathy for the russian soldiers anon. I just don't feel compassion, because as I said, they chose their fate.
>muh iq
suck my dick lol

>>63927489

>>63926563
Fuck that. Late medieval, Renaissance and Gothic stone work slaps too.

>>63926363
It's very much just the usual "oh, the horror, the tragedy, the immuable fate..." without ever acting appropriately on it. Even the most self-aware Russian is still just cattle, cursed to witness his suffering but never truly understand it, why it happens and how it relates to his own actions (or lack thereof).

You'll see it's extremely popular with mouthbreathers because it leaves the impression of self-conscience, as if it's some divine, grand plan assumed with sacred humility, not just another subhuman too idiotic and buck-broken to figure out even the most in-your-face of realities. The fetish of misery, masquerading as profoundness.

The civilian version of these abominations are the soldiers and wives of soldiers who complain about the ordeals their husbands are going through but never because they actually want the madness to end, but just because they demand more payment and benefits for it.

>>63927467

>>63927853

>>63927575
>Slavs from backwater villages with no money and no hope of ever escaping being conscripted get sent to die in droves
>"lol they chose their fate"
I remember when I was 17 too. By that logic, we should all despise Vietnam draftees, no?
When you get older, you'll realize that war is tragedy on an incomprehensible scale for everyone involved, whether they chose to be there or not.

>>63927853
bye bye serbnigger

>>63927880
>conscripted
99% of vatniks in Ukraine are contract soldiers, they go there for money or ideological reasons.
Muh poor suffering men does not apply here.

>>63926798
>safety on

>>63927875
>>63927882

>>63927880
I fucking despise you thinking you're better than me because you think you know more than me
I know exactly what you're talking about and I agree anon. War is a senseless tragedy, an abomination, and all jokes aside I derive no real spiritual joy from seeing humans brutally slaughtering other humans. That said
"MUH CONSCRIPTION" just isn't true anymore. The majority of the frontline right now is people who volunteered, whether for money, a sentence reduction, or fucked up beliefs. Either way, they're mostly volunteers, and they're volunteers to invade ukraine. So fuck 'em. I feel empathy but not compassion. Stop assuming you're smarter than people just because they disagree with you, faggot.

>>63927880
>WHY DON'T YOU CRY FOR THE INVADER(((( THEY ARE HUMAN JUST LIKE YOU(((( CYKA((((
They sign contracts. They are contractors, soldiers of fortune. They absolutely choose to be there. They nake the conscious choice to sign the papers, to deploy to Ukraine and then point weapons at Ukrainians. This sympathy-baiting zigger tactic got old in the first six months of the war.

>>63927880
You can't be a raping, murdering and torturing faggot by accident. Simple as.

>>63926733
Graçias Doctor

>>63927301
>complex situations
Complex? It's an invader vs the invaded. I'm not gonna lose sleep over a criminal getting shot for breaking into someone else's home.
>b-but they are forced
No, they voted Putin and they'll die by Putin.

>>63927570
>zigger projects his pedophiliac tendecies onto human beings
not sure what you were trying to do there, it doesn't work and makes people want to kill you even more.

I still don't understand what the endgame here is for Russia. Even if Zelensky gave up the entirety of Ukraine today, this war will haunt the Russians for YEARS to come in all parts of Russian society.

>>63928352
>Implying it matters in MOSKOVA that siberians lost thousands of males

>>63928352
Its about playing video games irl. Jokes aside, Russia cant influence their neighbors with cheap gas and weapons forever. Their only tool is war.

>>63928356

>>63927926
>serbnigger is having another melty
lol

>>63928385
>newspaper's name literally begins with cope
serbnigger, the jokes write themselves.
have you found a new job yet? if you put this much effort into a real career you probably wouldn't be a fucking loser right now lmao.

>>63925904
I'm sure this is supposed to be one of those 'biblically accurate angels' but I can't help but associate it with the constant gaze of drones on the battlefield

>>63928394
>>63928402

>>63928065
No you can not.

>>63928437
It took him 3 years to badly copy a meme lmao

I'm surprised Man Penis even knows what's going on in this thread

>>63928437
>i am not mad
>let me show you by making an angry, dejected post
lol mad

>>63926695
>BBC POC CNN
>Jeff Holy
lol lmaos
Also memes is art as well

>>63927301
Rot in hell Dimon take as well your Pidorashkas

>>63927542
>I'll never a girl like that
you just did grenade

>>63926422
THIS IS ART

>>63928767
The best I can do is develop pic related

>>63928024
Tarkovski's stalker vibe

>>63926147
>discount dragonteeth not hollow
sus

>>63927057
They are interesting because it shows the perspective of those involved on their side, in these you don't see a triumphant superhuman race of unstoppable heros conquering everything in their path.
Most of the men in these images are broken, disillusioned, afraid, or just dead, shown before visuals akin to hellfire.
The most vivid images are those made of things between battle, when there is some semblance of peace, made vivid as to capture the desire to soak up every last detail before being plunged back into the nightmare they survive.
The men in these images are in the process of realizing the hell they walked into, and for how little their lives matter in the grand scheme of it all to those that asked them to do so.

These are the men that will look back on this war in 20 years time and see it as little more than a senseless waste of life, tormented by the images burned into their mind of their friends bleeding out in the snow or burning to death in a BTR, all for a war that never made any sense in the first place, one that they were all too naive and eager to jump into without a second thought.

>>63929630
>Most of the men
You sure you looked same pictures? There is no men but zigurs
Fine example >>63925811
Awwww poor kitty and dogus... they are so small and so vulnerable, glad that zigure saved them from FUCKING HIMSELF... it's only his actions that bring destruction to home of said kitty, doggerinos, etc
TZD btw

>>63927880
>war is bad
>get nearly a dozen replies sperging out justifying their rapid hatred with whatever rationalization they can gurgle out
Ah

>>63929817
>zigur doesn't know what dozen mean or simply can't count
checks out

>>63929847
Thanks for not refuting anything I said lmfao

>>63929850
I didn't read your slop, I stopped at dozen

>>63928374
They had Ukraine as a puppet until the US/NATO couped their regime with the Maidan protests. The war is their only logical option to prevent Ukraine from becoming fully incorporated in NATO & having American bases dotting their geographically weakest frontier, if you concede that the Russians have their own geopolitical interests and motivations.

>>63929875
> their only logical option
their only zigur logic option you mean?
How about to fuck off and live own lives?
> Ukraine as a puppet until the US/NATO couped their regime
what r retarded zigur

>>63926384
Why the sims3?

>>63926562
if you are unable to enforce silence then do not presume to demand it

>>63925945
The alleged RVSSIAN SOVL is literally just a hangover. Although ziggers themselves believe in some sort of pan-ruzzian subconscious connection. See: "Natasha's Dance" by Figes.

>>63929875
>until the US/NATO couped their regime with the Maidan protests

>>63929630
Perhaps I was overly harsh. This side of the art I certainly recognise the quality of, and it's certainly thought provoking. Part of what I was trying to say on a deeper level is that I find it difficult to engage in artwork that depicts russian soldiers as victims of tragedy, no matter how authentic or moving these artworks are, when I know that most russian soldiers currently are volunteers, and that if the ukrainians had put up less of a fight in a few years it would be me and my brothers on the firing line before them. That said I do find russian lamentations of war uniquely moving; In particular, looking into the russian experience of afghanistan, and then chechnya after the breakup of the USSR, has often moved me to the point of tears. This video in particular always fuck me up https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NnA552tMV8g
I guess what I'm trying to say is that I will never not sympathise on a fundamental level with soldiers who are just trying to do their job and follow orders they believe to be lawful, because had I been born on their side of the wire, I know I probably could have ended up in their shoes, but in the specific case of ukraine -
the goals of the war, the prosecution thereof by the russians, the fact that the russian army is not made up of unwilling conscript but now mostly of volunteers, and the fact that it is not only the ukrainians but free europe as a whole on the line, my europe, makes me unwilling to sympathise too much with them in this specific conflict. But even still there is some level of empathy in my heart.

>>63930124
>looking into the russian experience of afghanistan, and then chechnya
The USSR army wasn't contracted and was in fact forced conscription similar to Vietnam, so your point does make sense there. But those pictures is about war in Ukraine... nor it's USSR nor it's forced conscription... it's just dumb zigers go in voluntarily and destroy neighbor (who also was on their side during afghanistan, and chechnya lol) and then cry about OH THE CRUELTY OF WAR

>>63925801
This image shows a familiarity with old art and culture that's out of the reach of the average conscript. More likely this was drawn by someone in Moscow obsessed with war footage.

>>63930195
right that's what I'm saying (albeit more loquatiously). I know that the soldiers on the frontline in ukraine are not poor victims of history but rather, mostly, greedy bastards who'd kill me without hesitating if it was my turn to man the trench. So it's not very easy to sympathsie. I also am acutely aware of the infowar aspect of this conflict and how much the russians try to manipulate online narratives about the war; one of their key narratives is the whole "both sides bad, this war is a tragedy on both sides" which sways retarded fifth columnists into supporting less aid for ukraine, and these paintings help that narratives, so I am forced to say: fuck off zigger

>>63930261
*I know that the RUSSIAN soldiers on the frontline in ukraine

the ukrainian soldiers are all heroes as far as I'm concerned

>>63928024
straight out some nightmare
>you legs are heavy you can't move
>when you do move you are sluggish
>wherever you look everything is the same
>strangers come by but you don't recognize them
>there's no sense of time or place

>>63927880
>By that logic, we should all despise Vietnam draftees, no?
They engaged in wide scale fragging so no. Once I see Russian officers getting ventilated by their troops regularly I'll agree Russians aren't all bad.

>>63929817
>war is... le bad!
>gets pointed out numerous times the invaders can just leave then & defending your home and kin is, in fact, honorable
>ignores it as always and instead tries to muddy the waters and whines again about muh poor conscripts fairy-tales and pidors with seemingly no self-agency trapped by le evil fate (which they willingly partake in and perpetuate, but you should nonetheless feel bad about such dumb creatures because you too might also somehow suddenly find yourself being a subhuman on a remunerated holy bolshevik crusade to rape, loot and spread glorious gulaghomo to your racist, Nazi brethren who lost the way and now want to indulge in the sin of indoor plumbing and clean drinking water)

Were you only a little less of a such a humongous cretin, you'd understand why rabid hatred is more than justified. Especially for you, you're more disgusting than any foot-soldier.

>>63927386
>chinese make some art of themselves being badass
>it looks like regular NATO fanart thanks to every chinese design being a copy

>>63928839
you sneaky nigger

>>63929911

Russian made a lame false flag op where they framed "nazi" agents operating in Russia. Of course they had a fresh-from-printer swastika t-shirt, a green wig and three Sims games. Because the false flagger didn't understand his instructions. They needed Sim-cards for phones, not Sim games, for the evidence pics of the raid.

https://www.vice.com/en/article/russia-sims-3/

I don’t think art for this war has really hit past the propaganda stage. Now another 2 years or ceasefire when vets start to open up a bit then you’ll see some real progress

>>63927301
>false pretenses
>Saddam Hussain wasn't a brutal dictator who never used chemical weapons and totally wasn't buying precursors
Retard.

>>63930500
Pretty kino ngl.

>>63930446
btw the video from the "arrest" is hillarious
>FSB agent knocks on he door
>"assassin" instantlly opens the door
>everybody is a retard dinosaur

>>63926386
That video is probably the funniest thing I've seen from this war, even funnier than either of the gay blowjob interruption videos.
Why did he run him over?

>>63926693
I've seen this in person. Quite moving

>>63930380
>the invaders can just leave then
>defending your home and kin is, in fact, honorable
Russians think that they are the defenders and that the Ukrainian junta is invading and genociding the poor innocent dpr and lnr. Thus they’re not any less honorable or less deserving of sympathy than ukrainian volunteers, even if they are misled and deceived by their government. (Ukrainians are deceived by their government too, btw, and are still deserving of sympathy)

>>63928053
The new ones are but the old ones were drafted and/or had no idea that the russian invasion of ukraine would ever happen.
One could also argue that people in shitty backwater regions of russia are basically forced to the front because the money offered is just about the only way for them to get out of generational poverty

>>63931487
>Russians think that they are the defenders and that the Ukrainian junta is invading and genociding the poor innocent dpr and lnr.
We know that they are lying, they know that they are lying, they even know that we know they are lying, we also know that they know we know they are lying too, they of course know that we certainly know they know we know they are lying too as well, but they are still lying. In our country, the lie has become not just moral category, but the pillar industry of this country.

>>63927073
>posting brownies on /k/
i think i know what the white spots are referencing

>>63931487
>Russians think that they are the defenders and that the Ukrainian junta is invading and genociding the poor innocent dpr and lnr.
Do any Russians actually believe that, though? Like, I know they're stereotyped as dumb but surely they're not THAT stupid.

I think this deserves a painting

>>63931505
>One could also argue that people in shitty backwater regions of russia are basically forced to the front because the money offered is just about the only way for them to get out of generational poverty
No one forces them. They make the conscious choice to go murder and pillage. It's immoral and wrong to go kill and invade for pay. I have no sympathy for any of these Russians who die or get naimed in Ukraine, no natter how fucking poor and dumb they were in life. Poverty, ignorance and stupidity don't proscribe you from making moral choices. Going to partake in a war of invasion because it pays a lot is not a fucking moral choice.

>>63931487
>BOTH SIDES BAD(((( POOR LITTLE RUSSIAN ALSO HONORABLE EVEN IF MISLED((( LIKE HOHOL(((( PLEASE FEEL SYMPATHY FOR POOR INVADER(((( HE THINKS HE IS DOING GOOD THING((((
Russians are invading. That's bad and immoral.
Ukrainians are defending their homes and kin. That's honorable and good.
You immediately expose yourself as a zigger when you do this retarded "muh both sides" dance.

>>63926695
>It's zigger art but pretty impressive considering it was made within like a week of the start of the invasion.

Woah almost like it's state funded propaganda

>>63929325
This is much more Tarr than it is Tarkovski, Tarkovski focuses on the beauty and comfort of melancholy in his shots.

>>63931990
i do love tarkovskis water motif https://youtu.be/Q3hBLv-HLEc?t=8388
also https://youtu.be/Q3hBLv-HLEc?t=2638 for pretty grass
i have tried to show stalker to other people but they do not seem to understand how beautiful this film is. the sound effects, the score by Eduard Artemyef, the shots, the actors, the water the fog, the abandonedness. like a foggy morning dripping with morning dew, feels like childhood, exploring, something beyond you, something unknowable, like that of the zone.

Why make excuses for the vile subhuman filth taking part in Putins land grab? Invaders are monsters who deserve to be tortured to death, you might as well pretend home invaders deserve sympathy or moral and legal rights.

I don't believe this was has had its Otto Dix yet

>>63931832
You aren't a participant, you're a spectator. It's absolutely right to feel that Ukraine is being ravaged by an uncaring external nation. Don't go pretending that civilians or soldiers, either side, truly deserve any of this shit. I highly doubt some kid in the Ural goes "I wanna get dismembered and set on fire in Ukraine, please." They seem to go because they're either being lied to and believe that what they're doing is right (question how one must feel if they saw their enemies screeching about how they want to nuke your capital cities and eradicate your culture, all because some fat retard you don't even like, decided to sharpen his pedigree with a broke-dick invasion.) or are, of course, a gaggle of genuine psychos who want to get in on the killing.
I've seen people go on full rants about how they wish every zigger and their offspring would be done in and wiped out. I've seen the same said about Ukrainians. About Americans. About Israelis. About Palestinians. About even fucking Poles, for some reason.

And I'm sure if some bucktoothed, purple eyed, arthritic zigger came here slapping his keyboard about how you, and your family, your culture, your everything should be destroyed because of the transgressions of My Lai, or some other historic warcrime, you'd feel compelled to kill him. TZD will make the zigger AND the average Russian feel the same way.

War is a fool's game. The only part that matters is yourself, and if you look at it wisely, it's complete trash. It's sending men, good and bad, to the slaughterhouse. That's anon's point. You *can* fight for yourself but still acknowledge it's all wrong, that everything about what is being done to you, and what you must do to others, is twisted.
Show mercy, and those who believe in humanity will accept it. It will filter the violent and depraved from those who feel what they are doing is "right".

>>63932037
Most legible heavy metal font

>>63931522
Its the shapes

>>63932049
>I highly doubt some kid in the Ural goes "I wanna get dismembered and set on fire in Ukraine, please."
No, he goes
>Jesus christ khokhols are such fucking degenerates holy shit thats fucking it im going there myself
The vast majority make it back by the way, enjoying their new money and a sense of satisfaction for having trampled that sorry ass nation. Its a harsh war but not remotely as bad for Russians as you're trying to pretend. I know because I speak to SVO veterans regularly.

Enjoy your reddit fairytales while russia trades 6000 to 300 in terms of bodies. Whatever helps you sleep at night.

>>63932049
Anon, the average russian is a zigger. Even those who have born and lived their whole lives outside of russia tend to be. Exceptions are rare. I wish they werent, I wish they werent my ancestral enemy but russia is russia, has been russia and will be russia for the foreseeable future. Every one that Ukraine kills makes the world a slightly better places to live for all us all, ziggers themselves included.

>>63932053
How are the milk prices?

>>63932049
>(question how one must feel if they saw their enemies screeching about how they want to nuke your capital cities and eradicate your culture, all because some fat retard you don't even like, decided to sharpen his pedigree with a broke-dick invasion.)
Enemy nations that they themselves antagonize, who they have enslaved and oppressed and warred with over the centuries, that they themselves consider subhumans only worthy of oppression? I will not feel sorry for Russians. Their fates are wholly of their own making. Question why everyone in Eastern Europe hate them and want them dead.

By the way, for what it's worth, I have no trouble picturing the scenario you describe which I greentexted, because Russians literally screech about nooking Washington DC, New York and other big cities every fucking day, on social media, on the TV, in the newspapers. If I were in the shoes of a Russian, I'd completely understand why people have an axe to grind with Russians.

>>63932053
Did you even read my post past the first paragraph?
>>63932057
>The average Russian is a zigger
>TZD
Damn I wonder why Russians will join the war effort. You just immediately justified why they still come to Ukraine, why they still kill young men for their "just cause" despite having their teeth smashed over and over and over again.
This is my entire argument. Do not stoop to be a retarded zigger who blames the whole scope of the enemy culture and population for everything. What reason would they have to ever change their ways if any attempt to show them mercy or what makes us "better" than them is irrelevant. Don't behave like a zigger. Replace your words with hohol or ukronazi and see how insane you begin to sound

>>63932069
Your problem is that you assume that russians think that they fight for justice. They dont think their cause is "just". They think they must conquer and pillage and enslave or someone does the same for them. The men fighting dont think so either, theyre there for money and loot just like in good old times

>>63932049
>You *can* fight for yourself but still acknowledge it's all wrong, that everything about what is being done to you, and what you must do to others, is twisted.
Yet this war would not even be fought currently if not for Russians. This is the fact you and other "muh both sides" posters refuse to acknowledge. Russians started the war. Russians fuel the war. Russians support the war. The blame lies solely at the feet of Russians. Ukrainians wouldn't have to choose to do twisted violence against other humans if not for Russians, but because Russians decided that Ukraine belongs to them, they have to kill in defense of themselves and their close ones. Why is this so hard to fucking get? There is no relativism here. Russians are to blame for this war and they could stop it, yet they refuse.

>>63932065
>Enemy nations that they themselves antagonize
Yeah, because the Russian state chose that, not some 16 year old who hasn't thought for himself yet. You think Zinin was thinking about how he wants to slaughter a bunch of NATO nations when he popped a hole through a conscription officer? You think some sod who's sitting in a ditch, squirming in a puddle of his own gore is thinking about Dugin's idea of Rusky Mir?

War is fucked *specifically* because good people are lied to about what's "right", and what I'm trying to tell anon here, is that it's understandable, but incredibly stupid to encourage undue callousness when that's what the ziggers are preying upon as ammo for their cause.

>>63932079
>You think some sod who's sitting in a ditch, squirming in a puddle of his own gore is thinking about Dugin's idea of Rusky Mir?
Probably not, yet he made the conscious choice to join a war that Dugin and his idea of Russkiy Mir demanded. Or are we to assume that Russians are mindless cattle who are incapable of making moral choices?

>>63932069
>post explained the mindset here >>63932053
>ignored that completely and still yapping about "muh poor innocent zigzogs"
I think you're an imbecile.

>>63932087
the other anon there is stepping on the metaphorical mine of thinking that there is a peaceful freedom loving democratic westerner under the surface of every human, and its going to come out if only given opportunity to. Unfortunately millions of westerners think like him and they are all wrong.

>>63925811
they are eating the cats and dogs!

>>63932069
No one would hate Russians if they'd stay on their own side of the border. No one would invade them, no one would want to genocide them and no one would fuck with them. All of the hate and bloodlist against Russians is IN REACTION TO RUSSIAN ACTS.

>>63932100
The puccians have done these acts for hundreds of years. They earned their reputation and it's about time they get annihilated. 1 million is not enoughj

>>63927880
Every second they spend on the front is a second they could have spent leaving.

>>63927482
the worst part, and most ironic considering the vatnik paranoia, about the zigger cancer is that america is their ultimate life insurance. ever time these faggots get into deep shit they storm head over heels to bail them out. they tried that post ww1 in saving the tzarist regime, they straight up bailed them out in ww2, tried to stop ussr implosion and now, once again, are trying to simp for them straight in the middle of a naked imperialist chimp out

>>63932091
What makes us any better than a zigger if the best we can do for people is kill them for differences that they had barely anything to do with. They were born, and now they must die, not because of Putin, but because they are from his lands.
You act like there wasn't almost 30 years where Russia could behave, where it's citizens were travelling and interacting with us like normal. I want to see their leadership smashed and humiliated, I want their armies gone and for the remainder to demonstrate that they can shake hands or at least leave the country behind them.
I know a Ukrainian, I know a Russian. He lived as both, in the USSR and came to the US because he was a learned philosopher. He travelled the world and it opened his eyes, he read banned books because what knowledge could truly be forbidden?
If that man exists, I know others like him exist. I've seen people from Russia try to subtly display their dislike of the government. Most of them can only do this because they don't live there anymore, but they still want the betterment of their people, because they're still Russian. There is a difference between Russians and ziggers. Call me a hippie or whatever, but that difference exists.
I want good people to not be punished because those around them made horrific choices, and live to harm. Sorry I refuse to stoop to the level of a braindead, telegram swilling zigger and just deny that good people are still trapped in that country.

>>63926431
>they're all a declaration of "event xyz happened! slava <our team>" thinly veiled as art.
That's the majority of all art. What do you think pic related is?

>>63932087
>Or are we to assume that Russians are mindless cattle who are incapable of making moral choices?
Is this a rhetorical question?

>>63928444
>but le both sides

>>63932069
>What reason would they have to ever change their ways if any attempt to show them mercy or what makes us "better" than them is irrelevant.
West showed them mercy starting from the 1990's (USA and EU provided food aid to them) , did business with them and tried to act amicably with them. Then in the following decades they invaded Chechnya twice, Georgia next, then Ukraine, shot down a civilian airliner full of innocents, paid off politicians, laundered money and corrupted national decision making, and took full advantage of the bonafide goodwill that was being shown to them by the West. My question to you is: If they did not change while we in the West showed them mercy and gave them the benefit of the doubt, why would they change in the future as we naively continue to act as if they're deserving of our goodwill?

>>63931506
but does the lobster singing upon the hill, whose eyebrow may or may not be raised, know that they know that he knows that they are lying?

Arguably a form of folk art
Perhaps also a form of warcrime

>>63932113
So what are you saying is, the only way to make russians behave is a total collapse of the regime, occupation and buck breaking like post ww2 Germany? I approve but it's impossible without TZD.

>>63932049
>I highly doubt some kid in the Ural goes "I wanna get dismembered and set on fire in Ukraine, please."
You are wrong and don't understand Russia is a totalitarian state where children are brainwashed. This is tyranny. You are so coddled and spoilt you can't even imagine what reality is in much of the world. Children in rural russia are uttely brainwashed by fake crap like victory day and Putin just as their grandparents were by stailin

>>63932053
>The vast majority make it back by the way, enjoying their new money and a sense of satisfaction for having trampled that sorry ass nation. Its a harsh war but not remotely as bad for Russians as you're trying to pretend. I know because I speak to SVO veterans regularly.
Nice job you have there flying your propaganda cublicle.

>>63930500
>>63930508
>By my deeds I honor him, Hesco

>>63932113
>You act like there wasn't almost 30 years where Russia could behave, where it's citizens were travelling and interacting with us like normal.
Despite the apparent peacefulness of russia and russians this never happened. russians have different understanding of what is peace and what is war or conflict. 1991 to 2008 were simply an era of weakness for them where they could not wage war openly but had to be more covert, and they think they are very good in both ways of war

I dont say all russians are evil. I never will. But vast majority of them are and those few good russians still in russia who resist and try to change their home to the better are very brave indeed. This goes to Iranians too, for what but bravery can be riskings ones life to resist the darkness of these death cults of russism and jihadism?

>>63932131
>URAWR!

>>63932123
>Then in the following decades they invaded chechnya twice, georgia next, then Ukraine..
"They" explicitly meaning the government of Russia. There will constituents that carried out the actions without thought, because they justified it.
But this was not the kids born in 2003, this wasn't women and babushkas lining up chechens and killing them. Russians are NOT in control of their state. Just how Americans were not in control of Afghanistan, or Iraq. Like how Israelis aren't in control of Palestine and likewise, the Palestinians were not in control of Hamas. Complacency is a universal trait when you're just a guy trying to make your family happy. Geopolitics and radical action to unseat it, is not the no. 1 mental goal of human beings living in a nation. This is a uniquely American perspective but even still I've seen Americans be wholly complacent in wars that even the government would up saying, were malfunctional.

>>63932130
Oh yeah! So lets just be the boogeymen they're told about and kill them? Show no mercy! Just like the ziggers!!!

>>63932129
Finally a post that comprehends what I'm saying through something that isn't genuinely horrific self-irony. Their government and heraldry should be dismantled and their national state replaced with something explicitly western. Ziggers and their ilk should be severely punished, and those who, either intelligently or unknowingly adopt to Western ideals rewarded with prosperity that their state formerly forbade them from enjoying.

>>63932141
>Despite the apparent peacefulness of russia and russians this never happened. russians have different understanding of what is peace and what is war
They are full of shit and braiwashed by bullshit relating mainly to ww2 by Putin. While they also ban history books about WW2 and tell children it started in 1941

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dPi7onqVBJM

>>63932141
Considering their ability to be complacent, and the cultural conditions they live in which they cannot rise up, no matter how much their tzar will shove a boot into their mouth, I believe it's entirely possible for a highly western biased government, *without such open democracy*, to make Russians bend to something much more like our ideals of moral interaction and geopolitics. But that can only happen by showing that by dealing with the West, they will be shown mercy their leaders wouldn't, and simultaneously by destroying the truly radical and violent elements so swiftly that there remains no question of might makes right.

>>63927880
>I remember when I was 17 too. By that logic, we should all despise Vietnam draftees, no?
Yes? And?

>>63932155
indeed, russia has regressed to be a ww2 death cult that worships suffering, sacrifice and might making right. There are many similarities to ww2 Japan except russians dont know any shame or honor.

>>63927880
>When you get older, you'll realize that war is tragedy on an incomprehensible scale for everyone involved, whether they chose to be there or not.
I am older and I recognise that communism which was fought in Vietnam was promoted by Russia which has been for 100 years the world premier sponsor of lies, terror, tyranny and murder. Its's not all the same. There is right and wrong. There is no comparison between teh Ukranians just war of defense and Putins annexation, terror and knidapping. It is not all the same. Many wars are not just, but some are. You stink of Russian propaganda.

>>63932156
We agree. Unfortunately I cant see any way for that to happen unless maaaybe if putin starts nuclear war and we have to strip russia of both its arsenal and red button pushers.

>>63932156
>But that can only happen by showing that by dealing with the West, they will be shown mercy their leaders wouldn't,
Thsi didn't happen for the first 80+ years sonce the end of the WW2, why should this work in the future? No, the impetus is on the Russians to fix their shit. They are not fucking hapless children.

>>63932146
>Russians are NOT in control of their state.
They elected Putin and co.
Putin and co. are Russians
Russians support the regime
Russians are in control of Russia the state
>Just how Americans were not in control of Afghanistan, or Iraq.
At least Americans protested the unjust invasions, something that can't be said about Russians

>>63932156
>But that can only happen by showing that by dealing with the West, they will be shown mercy their leaders wouldn't, and simultaneously by destroying the truly radical and violent elements so swiftly that there remains no question of might makes right.
So it will never happen? You're just wasting everyone time with your idealistic ideas grandpa

>>63928024
I never cared much about the T-55s but that M-55S in the rain is sexo.

>>63932167
>for 100 years
Eh, arguably russia has been that way since the grand principality of moscow formed the russian tsardom.

>>63928024
One of those Slovenian modernized T-55s up-armored by ukies?
Kino footage nevertheless!

>>63932192
Imperial russia was well integrated into Europe with boyars speaking french and tsars being german. This whole "da ebul wect is trying to destroy us" propaganda is a creation of bolsheviks

>>63932186
>Elected Putin and co
The loudest voices among them, the demagogues, swayed them onto this path. Hence why my other post emphasized a significantly more controlled "democracy" than what they got before. Not that all democracies around the world succumb to the exact same shit Putin exploited. It's not just the asiatic nations. Don't forget how fascism rose from democratic societies.
>Americans protested the unjust invasion, something that can't be said about Russians
Damn, so we're doing revisionism now? Are you a newfag who forgot how protests in Russia started with the invasion, then the government freaked out and banned it. Are you forgetting Zinin? Did you even see this post in this very thread >>63926767

>>63932191
>You're just wasting everyone's time
...By trying to raise attention about how *total* zigger death, as in some kind of Russian genocide, is going to make the war so, so much worse. And will only drag in people who have no reason to be involved, to start flapping their gums about destroying the West. Clearly it worked with how controversial my post *somehow* has been
>Display basic human morality about war being an atrocious mockery of human dignity
>Countless posts about how I'm an idiot, and ackshually Russians deserve it because of some totally legit blanket statements about every Russian ever
>Points about how this kind of mentality is the exact shit that Russians are being brainwashed into believing is true (conveniently ignored)
Somehow all of these posts and we still haven't left my basic thesis: behaving like ziggers, toward Russians, is what zigger propaganda is telling Russians is true, thus converting them into ziggers.

>>63932214
>>Display basic human morality about war being an atrocious mockery of human dignity
War started by the Russians and which keeps going due to Russians
>Countless posts about how I'm an idiot, and ackshually Russians deserve it because of some totally legit blanket statements about every Russian ever
>Points about how this kind of mentality is the exact shit that Russians are being brainwashed into believing is true (conveniently ignored)
If you bothered to read what is being written, this is not at all what is being said. People call you naive because everyone else here has Russian Fatigue Syndrome due to Russian fuckery and violence. You somehow try to divorce this Russian fuckery from the Russians themselves, as if the ones doing the raping and pillaging and murdering are just some weird ghostly projections of Russians. Also the ultranationalist ziggers would still keep on calling for the death of various ethnic groups from Poles to the French to Ukrainians. Like I said, everything Russians have to endure, the TZD calls, the nasty insults and so on, ARE REACTIONS TO RUSSIAN VIOLENCE, TO RUSSIAN ULTRANATIONALIST RHETORIC AND TO RUSSIAN WARA OF INVASION. GET THIS THROUGH YOUR FUCKING SKULL.

>>63932214
>Are you a newfag who forgot how protests in Russia
There were some small ones that HOMO quickly broke up. There have been none since. One wonders if Russians are truly peaceful beings in general, or if they're few and far between like Zinin and that little girl. Because if they truly loved justice and peace, they would've started a proper riot. HOMO can't break up a millions-strong demonstration, yet Russians stayed home, still stay home and go to die in Ukraine or apathetically shrug their shoulders, or post on telegram how those Ukronazis deserve it and Baltic peoples will be genocided next.

>>63932226
Russians outside Russia are usually somewhat alright, although many suffer from the immigrant attitude towards their homecountry; becoming quite jingoistic.
But there's something with russian society that absolutely breaks people, absolutely buckbreaking them to passivity.

>>63932049
>You aren't a participant, you're a spectator.
More than $10K of my donations to direct front line units prove that your are wrong

>>63932079
>Yeah, because the Russian state chose that
Russian state is people. The problem isn't putin, but russians themselves. Russians are a "collective putin" and that's the issue.

>>63932214
Your whole argument seems to hinge on the assumption that Russians are not in control of what they do and are therefore not culpable for what harm they individually cause. This is a very paternalistic argument that ironically considers Russians subhumans who have no agency and no inner concept of morality and justice.
Whereas the other side lays blame where it belongs: at the feet of the aggressor state and its people, Russia and Russians.

>>63932241
>Your whole argument seems to hinge on the assumption that Russians are not in control of what they do and are therefore not culpable for what harm they individually cause. This is a very paternalistic argument that ironically considers Russians subhumans who have no agency and no inner concept of morality and justice.
Yea it kinda reads like I should feel sympathy for Russians similarly like I feel sympathy for a violent and misbehaving animal, as it is a creature acting on its basest instincts and not in control of the wrong scts it does

>>63932229
Was I talking to you?

>>63932222
>If you actually read what was being written
Nobody else was saying that. Other than some insults towards me. My point is being ignored again. By not divorcing Russians from ziggers, you justify the conversion to ziggerdom. If it's "all Russians" and "dude it's just Russia Fatigue Syndrome", then why would they think about being different. You wont *let* them be different.
>It's all just reactions to Russians bro
I'm not saying Ukraine should lay the fuck down and eat shit. Far from it. I'm saying that when you yap and throw spittle about "muh TZD", you are conceding to a self-fulfilling prophecy. God forbid I see this and think that some shit like >>63932130 doesn't sound fucking DERANGED. What is the logical outcome of this point, if you show no mercy to the brainwashed, and give them a reason to question what they were told, you are doing exactly what they *want* you to do.

>>63932235
And still, if a Russian fence sitter saw this he would go "well if this is how the West feels, I'm going to try and kill them, hard."
This was, and is, and always will be the point I was making. You are becoming the western version of a zigger. Replace your use of Russians with Ukrainians.
>Ukrainian state is people. The problem isn't Zelensky, but Ukrainians themselves. Ukrainians are a "collective Zelensky" and that's the issue
You'd fit right in on some vatnik slop forum.

>>63932241
Because they HAVE no agency, it's a totalitarian dictatorship on par with North Korea. If Russian culture is all about the boot and complacency towards the boot, destroying the state and replacing it with something that will instruct them on mercy will fix that. What, are they suddenly gonna grow a spine and commit terror attacks when you can bring the stick out for ziggers specifically, and those Russians already know to shut the fuck up, lest they get the gulag?

>>63932146
>Russians are NOT in control of their state
- it's not putin who fights at the front lines;
- It's not putin who tortures and kills POWs;
- it's not putin who fires artillery and missiles are cities;
- it's not putin who flies the bombers;
- it's not putin who brings the ammo;
- it's not putin who makes ammo and weapons;
- it's not putin who flies FPV drones at random civilians at cities close to the frontline as a part of "human safari", and then posts the videos for other pidors to gloat and do fundraisers for more human safaris;
- it's not putin who makes propaganda;
- it's not putin who builds out their war and propaganda infrastructure;
- it's not putin who tried to assassinate westerners, e.g. the CEO of Rheinmetall;
- etc, etc, etc;
Please tell me about the poor russians who are the victim in all of this, faggot.
There's this famous quote, which goes something like this "yes, we obviously hate stalin for many right reasons, but who actually wrote those five million denunciations?", as in people are always the ones who actually implement those fucked up things.

>>63932146
>Just how Americans were not in control of Afghanistan, or Iraq
Americans were predominantly for war because muh 9/11, stop the revisionism.

>>63932250
sorry but russians must prove that they are worthy of compassion, worth of humanity. russians dont act on instinct, russians are not children, russians are not like you and me. russians are collectively responsible for russism and their actions

>>63932214
>Are you forgetting Zinin?
One man in a country of 140+ million. I think this says a lot more than you'd like to point out to.

>>63932228
>Russians outside Russia are usually somewhat alright
Bruh, the amount of random attacks on ukies abroad by russians (often those whom emigrated 10+ years ago) proves this to be a lie.

>>63932250
>And still, if a Russian fence sitter saw this he would go "well if this is how the West feels, I'm going to try and kill them, hard."
If a person goes all in for a murdering psychopath side because of internet comments of a victim, then he never was a fence sitter, but a closeted zigger who just waited for an excuse. Simple as. I don't go around raping and killing women, despite seeing fucked up shit posted by retarded feminists and roasties each day. Because I'm not in fact some retard.

>>63932250
>Because they HAVE no agency,
If they truly have no agency, then why care for them? We care for ukies specifically because they are normal civilized people who want their freedom and lives.

>it's a totalitarian dictatorship on par with North Korea
No, it's not.
For starters, it's trivial to access unfiltered internet, you literally have random russians even on 4chang and most of them are ziggers.
Also, please point me to millions arrested and jailed at protests. Oh right, that never happened. Because there never were any mass protests. Because only like 0.5% of the russian society even thought about protesting (because they are in fact against the war bullshit) and just a part of that 0.5% even tried something.
Don't get me started that nobody is chaining russians to stay inside russia. Yet those who emigrated are also mostly pro-regime imperialists.

>>63932250
>Ukrainians are a "collective Zelensky" and that's the issue
ukies had how many presidents since 1991? how about russia? simple as

>>63932248
>Feel sympathy for a violent and misbehaving animal
Much like how the rabid posters I've been replying to make me feel. Utterly blind by a dogma that they made in their heads of all Russians = pure evil. And to tell them otherwise, is to get a bunch of meandering arguments about how I'm somehow just wrong and their headcanon of the world says that Russians are evil because they exist.

No thought, only something to justify the cognitive dissonance surrounding war itself. Being upset over Ukraine is perfectly justified. Being the little demons that Russia is *using* to continue to justify it's antagonism towards the world is idiotic. And pointing this out is somehow not an option because to be born in the nation called Russia, is apparently to be evil.

>>63932252
>It's not Putin, etc.,
But it wasn't fucking Ivan Ivanovic who went out one day and said "okay, now we're doing the war, now we're taking Crimea"
That was Putin. Putin has the power to make it stop but doesn't. Again, the Russians are not in control, they are pawns, and SPECIFICALLY what I'm arguing is absolutist TZD, extending to Russia as a whole, not just actual ziggers, will be justification for people to act as his pawns
>Look, the west talks about completely murdering you, your family, and your culture!
Wow I wonder what they'll do, maybe sit down and just accept death or something bizarre.

>>63932257
Oh yeah, so we can justify broad strokes, bro! Zinin was just one guy, the rest are trash, it's not that he's infamous for being a violent, solo rebel who wanted the war to stop above his own life.

>>63932260
>Goes all in for a murdering psychopath side because of internet comments of a victim, then he was never a fencesitter
Why would a Russian find the cause psychotic when, in this very thread, there is people behaving exactly how Russian propaganda wants Russians to think Westerners are.

>>63932250
>Because they HAVE no agency
Poor little Ivan who just suddenly was teleported to Ukraine and mindcontrolled by his leaders to rape, torture and murder. He certainly did not consciously sign a contract to do it and he certainly could not choose otherwise while on the way to Ukraine. No, no, he's a hapless little zombie who the state orders to its bidding.

>>63932270
>Why would a Russian find the cause psychotic
because it's the objective reality, no matter how hard you try to push moral relativism propaganda talking points here faggot

>>63932270
>But it wasn't fucking Ivan Ivanovic who went out one day and said "okay, now we're doing the war, now we're taking Crimea"
Life isn't a video game, retard. Things don't happen because someone wants them to or says things. Things happens because large systems with millions of people involved make them so.

>>63932264
>Then why care for them
Because they are still humans. Shoot one and he will scream just like anyone else. It matters because unless we actually are better than them, what fucking point is there anymore other than nationalism of one nation over another. Millions of innocents live so that millions of innocents may die. Children are still children, old women are still old women. Humans are entitled to the beauty of life, they forfeit that when they choose violence, but people often don't make that choice. Reality is a bitch, violence chooses you. That's what both the Russians and Ukrainians are suffering from

>>63932265
Got you covered bro

>>63932272
poor russia always bullied :´(( russophobia everywhere((

>>63932279
>Because they are still humans
Nah, they are closer to those demons in Frieren. They mimic and ape humanity and culture to get close to you, to make you think that they can be reason with, only for them to attack you.

>>63932278
Wow a gross simplification is... a gross simplification. You pretend like people cannot be lied to. Like they have this magical super agency above people manipulating them, telling them that they should go die in a foreign country to save their own from "genociders".
>>63932275
>Moral relativism is now propaganda
Do not say that having some moral backbone is the same as abiding Russia's cause. My whole specific argument is that behaving like ziggers, begets the ziggers. I want Ukraine free. I want Russia to stop existing as it's current government exists. And to eradicate an entire people to get this done, is an atrocity. Justify it all you want, you are exactly like a vatnik if you think killing an entire people because they exist is good.
>>63932272
You haven't been paying attention.
>Screech about wanting to genocide Russians because they're in Ukraine
>Ivan is told "the West wants to genocide you because we're in Ukraine"
>Ivan thinks about his family
>Ivan decides to go fight rather than lay down and die
>Ivan is now killing innocents in Ukraine for his notion of "the greater good"
>Screech about wanting to genocide Russians because they're *still* in Ukraine
That is what I have been trying to argue the entire time. TZD is good as long as it stays targeted towards ziggers, but I've had nothing but proto-vatniks come in and tell me that no, genocide is justified because it's towards Russia.

>>63932270
>Why would a Russian find the cause psychotic when, in this very thread, there is people behaving exactly how Russian propaganda wants Russians to think Westerners are.
Are you implying the West started this war with its calls for genocide of Russians? I remind you that it was Russia that invaded Crimea and Eastern Ukraine first. Even after Crimean and Eastern Ukraine's invasion, the West tried to play ball and give them the benefit of the doubt. The TZD calls came after 2022. It's also fucking nasty that you imply that a victim of a violent invasion insulting the oppressor is on the same level as the oppressor committing wanton rape, murder and destruction.

>>63932279
I agree with you, but if I were you I wouldn't even waste your time and effort trying to tell people this. A nuanced take will just get you loads of replies calling you a Russian.

>>63932292
>calling you a Russian
Because he literally is

>>63932291
>Are you implying the West started this war with it's calls for genocide of Russians
??? Where are you *even getting this*?
No. But if you respond to Russia behaving like violent niggers, by behaving like the violent niggers that Russia *really, really wants the West to be, in their little Rusky Mir wet dream*

You will beget them.
>Insulting the oppressor
No. That's fine. Ukies can kill Russian soldiers when they place their boots over the border. But don't be stupid. Don't sit there and essentially justify them with stupid shit like "oooh it's ALL the Russians that caused the war!!!" Sympathy is a human trait. Ziggers lack sympathy. The proto-vatniks, the kinds of niggers here who I can see would justify shooting children and women against a wall because "eh they're culturally evil", lack sympathy. You can hate ziggers. And you can have sympathy.

Somehow, being human and displaying this uniquely human capacity, means you're a Russian. Absolutely ironic.

>>63932288
>My whole specific argument is that behaving like ziggers, begets the ziggers
Nope, cool it with hippie shit faggot. One side is the aggressor in this whole situation, once they open up that door there's no going back, no playing "muh both sides", no stopping the reapers. Anything done and said about russians in response is fair game. Yes, that's how things work.

>>63932288
>Ivan is now killing innocents in Ukraine for his notion of "the greater good"
dude theyre not. They know they are the bad guys and they are endlessly proud of it. Even the norks or ISIS goatfuckers are more human than the russist asiatic horde of thieves and gay rapists

>>63932295
>oooh it's ALL the Russians that caused the war!!!
In matters of objective reality the presence of 0.25% of "other russians" can be ignored. That's how life works. Just because some germans were against the Nazis in WW2 doesn't magically change the fact that germans overall were the ones at fault for their shit.

>>63932288
>You haven't been paying attention.
>>Screech about wanting to genocide Russians because they're in Ukraine
Can you prove that this happened before 2014? It must have, otherwise poor little Ivan had no reason to invade Crimea. Can you prove that it happened after 2014? Because if not, then poor little Ivan had no reason to invade Ukraine in 2022 again. Can you prove that TZD and other Russian genocide memes are aufficiently mainstream in Western society beyond 4chan for Ivan to feel scared? Because if not, then Ivan has no reason to fight.

I also remind you, that Russian TV and media since the 2010's has called for genocide of Ukrainians, genocide of Balts, genocide of Finns, of Poles and Romanians, Checnyans, Georgians and other ethnic groups. And yet it is *I* who is at fault and norally reprehensible when I don't give them the benefit of the doubt anymore?

>>63932279
Russians chose violence and forced it upon Ukrainians.

>>63932281
and two out of the three are paragons of stability while one of them is torn between political revolutions and war

>>63932288
>Ivan is now killing innocents in Ukraine for his notion of "the greater good"
Yeah, blowing up civilians for the greater good, raping and torturing POWs for the greater good, kidnapping chilldren for the greater good, doing human safaris for the greater good.
Just because you actually manage to spew such bullshit and nothing clicks in your subhuman mind is enough of a reason of kill you IMO.

>>63932294
I am a russian here. That guy sounds like a limp wristed US hippie and it's fun to listen to his "let me tell you about your people" rants.

>>63932299
>They are the badguys and endlessly proud of it
Real life isn't a video game. They do it because they know it will piss you off, and make you do stupid shit. "Blind with rage" isn't as poetic as you may think it is.
>pic related
They do shit like this because they own the insults. When they own the insults, it makes people more irate. When they become irate, they say more shit that can work towards Russia's little propaganda machine.

>>63932304
Yeah, and it was worth destroying the German government completely, and introducing a new leg of their culture that appreciated parts of their German history while, in my opinion, going far too hard on suppressing the nastier parts of that history.

>>63932307
>Can you prove this happened before 2014
Wow, guess what, it didn't, and I never said it did. Stop assuming, you get nowhere.
>Poor little Ivan had no reason to invade in Ukraine in 2022 again.
No, except what state media told them, and what their officers commanded, and what the volunteers who were already in were tasked with doing. Even if they knew it was stupid, they already signed the papers. Just the same as it is now, just as anons have argued to me, and I've ignored, when their boots touch Ukrainian soil, their lives are forfeit. That's war.
>Russian state TV has called for the genocide of [other NATO nations, etc]
Wow, so we should behave exactly like that! The Russians sure are evil, let's genocide them too!
If you again, were paying any attention, you'd remember me saying that we should be better than Russians, not English speaking clones of ziggers and vatniks. If the Russians are so evil and immoral, why the hell are we peddling some of the insanity they preach?

>>63932316
Hmmm yes taking my statements seriously despite explicit quotations and repeated dislike of Russia's invasion. Very cool. I *totallllyyyy* think that Russia is doing it for a just cause bro.
You are still a different flavor of zigger if you think genocide will solve this, and not ruin the West.

>>63932324
>Real life isn't a video game. They do it because they know it will piss you off, and make you do stupid shit. "Blind with rage" isn't as poetic as you may think it is.
Its not an online thing, its real inter-russia thing. And it has been for CENTURIES. Dont assume everyone here is American or lives in Internet only.

>>63932334
>Don't assume everyone here is American or lives in the internet only
...We are on /k/.
But fair enough, I'll concede to that.
Nonetheless, if Russians are somehow this brainwashed, this maleable to the will of their despot, does this not mean that they could be changed for the better, if you had the right kind of strongman who will punish the rampant vatniks, and work for the mercy and prosperity of those who don't try to step up and ruin it for everyone? Russian culture, I've been told many, many times, hinges on the prison mentality, slave/master dynamics and all that. Someone who isn't Russian would have to take control, perhaps, to make sure their cultural tendencies or whatever don't override their basic humanity. If their little boner for "evil" truly exists, and this is coming from the apathetic prison culture of Russia, and like with all cultures in all of history, that shit can be bent till it's broke.

>>63932330
He's putting your statement in their true context, to remind you what ordinary Russian men are doing in Ukraine
>>63932324
>If the Russians are so evil and immoral, why the hell are we peddling some of the insanity they preach?
Where do you see this beyond 4chan that it's got you so riled up? Is CNN calling for genocide of Russians like ROSSIYA1 does for various ethnic groups? Is France1 propagandizing Europeans to want to murder Russians? You are equating two completely different things that are separated by massive order of magnitude.

By the way, as for me, Russians can stay on their side of the border. I will not dehumanize them, but I inow how their culture is and how they think. IN GENERAL, NOT *ALL* RUSSIANS. They invade? They will be killed, and I will feel not one ounce of sympathy for them, just like I don't cry after dead Russian invaders now either. They chose their fates. They chose violence. They chose war. These objective facts do not change despite all of the moral relativism.

>>63932318
Yep, those subhumans need to be deported to russia to enjoy the people they run to protect so much. Just like socialists and commies should be deported to DPRK.

>>63932358
>Is CNN calling for genocide of Russians like ROSSIYA1 does for various ethnic groups? Is France1 propagandizing Europeans to want to murder Russians?
Just imagine that based world

>>63932353
Finally you're fucking getting it.

>>63932324
You try to say that we shouldnt corner russia but should give them a chance to change. russians will laugh at that idea. They think the West was bunch of unbelievable morons for not destroying them when they were weak in the 90s. We talk about people who believe that even in international treaties mutually beneficial deals are possible, no they think that even in them there is winner and loser, subjucated and master. Imperialism, Muscowite exceptionalism, aggressive expansionism and constant conflict at its borders is so integral to russia and its culture that without them russia wouldnt be russia anymore.

To think that russia can be changed from the outside with diplomacy is so naive it needs a new word

>>63932353
Yes russians could be changed if we were to occupy them and give them the nazi Germany treatment but a hundred fold that. I will cheer if it happens but I dont think it will or can.

>>63932353
Nah, theoretical possibility doesn't translate to actual possibility of changing russians. Germans and Japanese had normal culture to fall back on while under occupation. Not only nobody would bother to occupy russia, but also there is no other russian culture. The fucked up shit you see is in fact the only thing which exists. Everything else is a think veneer they use for propaganda.

>>63932358
>Where do you see this beyond 4chan?
The context is here and now, specifically this ENTIRE thing started because I went ahead and elaborated on a post another anon made, that had some really poorly though reply basically just calling him a zigger for having an understanding of moral relativism. Don't put words in my mouth or assume this is CNN and shit. This is the morality of dumbasses on 4chan.
>True context
Fuck right off. And telling me to go get shot because I don't want to see children die, independent of their retarded nation or retarded culture is not exactly the most kind way of getting me to understand his objective.

Yes, I know what Russians are doing, I saw Bucha, I saw Izium, I saw that horrifying vid of a Ukrainian family getting shot by barrier troops, and then thrown into a ditch.
But you still need to understand what might make a man do that. Again, there are people in this thread utterly rabid for Russia and they don't even belong to Ukraine. Russians have the problem of falling for lies, people here do not. HOWEVER, that hasn't stopped them from apparently trying to justify similar behavior to the warcrimes Russia committed, because at least it's against Russians.

>>63932368
>f-f-finally you're fucking getting it!
I already said that the optimal form of government for Russia before, and some guy was making some weird pseudo-argument that I'm treating Russians like humans but contradicting myself by treating them like animals, and not catching the nuance of that. It is a culture that *can do better with the right kind of leader.* That is why it's not worth behaving like a zigger and just killing them all upfront. I already got it, no need to get your panties in a twist.

>>63932369
>Shouldn't corner Russia
God no. They need to be bullied into behaving in a civilized manner. I keep stating this, my problem is anons will get all hyper over wanting to utterly obliterate Russia when I believe this to be immoral.

>>63932383
>but also there is no other russian culture
One can always invent a new one. This whole WW2 VICTORY death cult hysteria was constructed in the last 25 years.

>>63932369
Well is anybody really surprised at their ziggerness when all they get is slaps on the wrist and the leaders of their enemies are softies like dementia joe or agent orange or bureaucratic compromisers like scholz or stahmer on the other side of the ocean. Not to mention this behaviour not being an anomaly but US in particular consistently coddling and excusing vatniks for close to a century now

When you put softies and gopniks in a confrontation, softies are always going to be taken advantage off

>>63932395
It traces its origins back to brezhnev who got nostalgic for the good old days in his elderly years. That is also when monke was in his 20s and impressionable

>>63932385
>God no. They need to be bullied into behaving in a civilized manner
To elaborate a little more, they follow the strongman. They cannot be allowed to *pick* a strongman, democracy is an enabler for dictatorships. Demagogues and the like thrive in democracies, and Russia's culture obsession with the strongman is a heavy enabler. Their history tells us this, and you don't need to keep restating that to me.

What I want to happen as a realistic form of TZD, is to overwhelm any potential military capacity they have so swiftly and so mightily, that they bend to an external strongman, some kind of Western mind who will act with the utmost regard for the lowest castes of Russians, and destroy the vatnik/zigger elements of their society when they arise with terrific brutality. They need a carrot, not just the stick. The more you show them the carrot, and the more you beat the unruly with the stick, the more that their cultural predispositions will start to align with your goals. This is what I know of Russian culture.

Irredemptionism is appealing as an easy solution that doesn't contain troublesome complexity with essentially doing nation building, but we converted Japan from a humanistic/animistic culture that infatuated itself with idealism and spirit, to a colder capitalistic machine, that simultaneously managed to convert it's (previously extremely might-makes-right) culture into a product.

>>63932385
>But you still need to understand what might make a man do that.
Right. Incessant propaganda for decades and buckbroke apathetic culture of prison rules will do that. Arrogant and uniquely antagonistic attitude toward the neighboring ethnicities will do that. Thinking that cooperation and mercy are weaknesses to be exploited will do that. That is Russian culture. It will not change. It will never change, a complete and total collapse of Russia notwithstanding. It is pragmatic to realize that, and to arm oneself if ziggers decide that one's place in the world ought to be part of the Russkiy Mir.

Liek I've said and will say again: it is Russian Fatigue Syndrome. Everything anons say about Russians, every vile dehumanization, is a reaction to Russian acts. They chose violence and war first. They've been talking about genociding various ethnic groups first. I will not be sympathetic to them. I will not be compassionate to them. I can empathize, but their plight is wholly and completely their own fault, not some anon's who posts "TZD!" on /k/.

>>63932385
>they just need a better *western* leader and culture
Bruh you're literally paraphrasing Hitler, for average ruzzian your rhetoric is essentially the same as *kill them all and take their resources* putler's media is pushing.

>>63932395
>One can always invent a new one
Just like US was able to invent one for afghanis during a 20 year long occupation, right?

>This whole WW2 VICTORY death cult hysteria was constructed in the last 25 years.
That's a bit reductionist, it started to be built up in later soviet years (e.g. from 1970s) because the state had nothing to fall back on.

>>63932397
>When all they get is slaps on the wrist
That's the problem. But genocide is the excuse they use to maul people. "They're hurting us poor lil Russians oohhhhh we're the victims :("
Shatter their ability to wage war completely. Break them. But don't stoop to the level a Russian would stoop to. That will set an example for them. Make them a nation that's been cucked because of their stately transgressions. Again, like Germany or Japan.

>>63932424
>Their plight is wholly their fault.
Sure. You still look like, and smell like a zigger for turning into a rabid dog who just yaps about slaughtering every Russian ever. They are mentally dominating you. Their propaganda wants people like you to exist. You can be nuanced and still wish for their military to catch every class of explosive device known to man. That is what I said in my first post ITT, that's what I will continue to stand by.
They live on lies, and get their little genocide fantasies from those lies. You, however, know the truth of what they've done, but you are still better than them, are you not? You can feel sympathy, but you don't need to feel empathy. That's the nuance I have spent this entire thread arguing for.

>>63932426
But, they hear that shit and what comes of it, in this hypothetical? The beatdown of their military and reactionary elements, and the mercy towards those who align to the west. What will run through their minds other than a subtle cognitive dissonance and a questioning of their reality. The mistake of the West after 1992 was thinking USSR collapsing meant we could be hands free, and instead not immediately move in to dictate their future, so they wouldn't do this to themselves, and start attacking their neighbors like an untrained pitbull.
>Paraphrasing Hitler
Historical basis for how to solve Russia, too bad that, as the first anon I replied to said, people in power ain't treating Russia as sternly as they should.

>>63932449
>Just like US was able to invent one for afghanis during a 20 year long occupation, right?
Except they didn't really try? They just said you're a democracy now lol and then proceeded to launder MIC money.
I am thinking about Germany and best (South) Korea

>>63932464
>Except they didn't really try?
That's russia-tier revisionism. Hurr-durr we didn't shit the bed, we didn't even try.

>I am thinking about Germany and best (South) Korea
Both had other culture to fall back on, it didn't have to be invented.

>>63932456
>Sure. You still look like, and smell like a zigger for turning into a rabid dog who just yaps about slaughtering every Russian ever. They are mentally dominating you. Their propaganda wants people like you to exist
I've not done this. I'm just tired of Russians. I will kill them if I must, but I don't think they should be slaughtered wholesale. I wish that shithole would not exist as it currently does. I wish it was an amicable neighbor. At the same time, I am not naive enough (like you seem to be) to think that we can comprehensively destroy their wicked culture and mold them again, or that they will change on their own volition.

They are humans with agency - this is my root point. They actively choose violence. They actively choose to spout and believe in ultranationalist propaganda. Russians must choose to be better people who do better choices until I will start giving them the benefit of the doubt again. Until that day I will not feel sorry for them, I will not sympathize with them and I will prepare myself to fight them, unless it's some child, which it rarely is.

>>63932496
This I agree with. The only point which I just personally contend (because as I and other anons have said, am some hippie faggot) is the level of agency they have.
Otherwise? I understand your point.

>>63932472
>Hurr-durr we didn't shit the bed, we didn't even try.
I am not an expert on the Afghan question so you may be right here, just it didn't look like an attempt at nation building in my opinion.
Germans during interbellum and ww2 were exactly like ziggers but they got transformed into most disgusting peace loving ponies you could ever find through occupation and education, seems like a pretty new culture to me

>>63932516
NTA. They have agency. They actively support russian imperialism and consider their country superior, even those that hate putin. I met a bunch of russians outside of russia, they ALL spout the same bullshit and promote kremlin narratives. And infect westerners with it. And it's not even patriotism. They'll steal from their country and do what's best solely for them at the expense of other russians, but they'll still claim they love russia and tell everyone how great it is. The state russia currently is in, is not an anomaly. It is its normal and perfect state.

Until russia stops existing, this shit will continue. But it'll never stop existing. So putin is great for us normal people - he will keep russia isolated, and they can't invent or produce by themselves. Best case scenario is russia is a chink oil colony, completely isolated from west by its own volition (because otherwise there'll be some bleeding hearts that will give nuke secrets to it, again)

>>63932456
For japan and germany they needed complete defeat with occupation. What you describe was achieved with germany in ww1 and the lack of outright visible militaey defeat lead to the backstabbing myth.

That and you can't ignore that at their core germans and japanese were cultured and intelligent people. Mayerial that could be civilized no matter the dictatorships that encased them. Ziggers are the direct result of centuries upon centuries of dysgenic selection by schizophrenic tyrants. They are the direct opposite of who in behavior and intelligence are closer to muslims then europeans

>>63932369
>You try to say that we shouldnt corner russia but should give them a chance to change
Dont forget that this was actual european policy pre-2014, hell even afterwards it was still a big thing. Fat lot it did.

>>63932128
>>63932131
>Perhaps also a form of warcrime
those r crimes against humanity

>>63932288
>TZD is good as long as it stays targeted towards ziggers
but you r ziger tho so TZD
What there so hard to understand?

>>63932318
IT would be hippie if not the fucking time when he posts tho.... 5 fucking am at EST
All le hippies already at the bad in US, so he is 100% Pussiasianian

>>63933173
>What's so hard to understand
Nothing? TZD is TZD, civilians need not be involved
>>63933204
The concept of staying up all night is foreign to you, eh? Of course, I must be a zigger because I'm not sleeping like a good boy.

>>63932049

All Russians must die.

Simple as.

>>63933258
>civilians need not be involved
There no civilians, anyone who supports zigur ideology is potential combatant (including not only Pussisianians)
>The concept of staying up all night is foreign to you, eh?
Yeah sure Ivan

>>63927509

>>63932214
'Basic human morality' requires recognising that national borders should be sacred and that invading someone else's homeland is an unforgivable crime that permanently strips you of your rights as a human., If you do not unconditionally support native rule free of foreign interference you're an apologist for imperialism.

>>63932008
Yes, exactly, that webm is much closer to the absolute desolation or dread of Bela Tarr or even the reveling in disgust of Aleksei German. The tank in the water really doesn't give me Tarkovsky/stalker vibes.

>>63932292
Pretending invaders deserve anything but death isn't 'nuance'.
Invasders are not humsddnb, trhryu'tre trying to vioklste som eoner e;ses dacreddd ghoimnerklasnf sop tyhety dersxereve 6to rd9ie in

>>63932008
>>63933729
I like the book and games, but I don't like this boring Torkovski movie

>>63926733
Vielen Dank Herr Doktor.

>>63932119
they've really been trying to force this meme for a while, huh?