This is not a thread asking what technologies could make mechs feasible. Quite the opposite. This is a thread asking...what technologies have rendered mechs already obsolete before they ever got a chance to take off? Much like how advancements in gun technology rendered knights obsolete, what technology killed the mech before the mech could even become a thing?

Gunships being the more mobile and agile weapons platform, tanks being the more stable and armor-to-weight efficient, the very action of locomotion being needlessly traumatic and violent, and also mechanically complex; and I guess these days you could add drones to the list as being as dangerous to mechs as they are to anybody else; with the qualifier that a mission or mobility kill against a mech would be much easier than against a conventional armored box. It should be noted that powered armor is a near certainty for infantry given enough time, but they're distinct from mechs IMO.

>>63926321 (OP)

>>63926321 (OP)
Man...I love Macross...so...much...

If you count artillery + legs as mech it could have a use in the mountainous regions purely for artillery.

>>63926360
Spbp
BT needs multiple peak fantasy techs to make them better than wheeled and tracked vehicles.
Wheel is king.

>63926502
falseflag frogposter
>>63926321 (OP)
i don't think it's a specific tech thing
it's more like the budget to properly develop this stuff is way too costly

>>63926321 (OP)
Square cube law

>>63926321 (OP)
This exact conversation has happened dozens of times in the last 15 years and the answer is any mech is going to take up the cost, maintenance, and personnel resources of a fighter jet for the performance of a Soviet IFV, .50 cal vulnerability and all.

>>63926321 (OP)
low gravity impassible terrain scenario is the only reason a walker will work

because there's no or too little material(air) to use a winged or prop vehicle with

>>63926595
Would they help with souls that are weighed down by gravity though?

>>63926321 (OP)
Modern ATGM and possibly drone swarms make classic anime-style frontline Mech combat unlikely.
There are feasible exceptions but they immediately stretch the definition of a Mech.

>>63926321 (OP)
Medieval mechs ala Escaflowne make the most sense. Being taller while handling a giant sword makes sense, but sadly gunpowder made everything lame and gay. And don't start me on drones buzzing everywhere. Even less honorable than snipers.

>>63926321 (OP)
lack of giant zentradi wives

>>63926321 (OP)

>what technologies have rendered mechs already obsolete before they ever got a chance to take off?
The term "mechs" is vague. Are we talking VOTOMS? Wanzers? Gundams? ACs? Battlemechs? Valkyries?

It's always assumed that any "mech" meant for combat was specifically made for that intended purpose and nothing else. The question of "why bother?" immediately comes up in terms of procurement. Yet, the chariot, a weapon that defined human warfare for millennia arose out of the need for a horse-drawn cart. The goal wasn't to make the chariot itself, rather the goal was to be able to travel longer distances.

If mechs were to come about, it wouldn't be because they're a better weapon of war but because they were already in use for something else. Construction, Heavy Engineering, and Mining make more sense, along with Urban Pacification (take that hippies). It would be less about "why" and more about "why not" when you have factories pumping them out by the thousands for various projects. The logistics are already there. Sure, for the first few decades they'll be dedicated to mega-projects and expensive as hell but someone will eventually slap guns on them and try to use them for combat. How well that endeavor goes would depend on the nature of the conflict they're used for and their capabilities.

If mechs did get used for war, it would be the Toyota Hilux of the future. It's what you'd use when you don't have tanks, artillery, or air defense platforms but can steal and jury-rig equipment meant for industrial purposes.

>Much like how advancements in gun technology rendered knights obsolete, what technology killed the mech before the mech could even become a thing?

Arguably ATGMs and other anti-armor weapons. This however, assumes that the mech is so much more expensive than a normal tank or APC and just as if not more vulnerable because of its legs. Even then, that's not the whole story.

(1/2)

>>63930204
max should never have micronized miria

Mechs would be great as combat units in gigantic space colonies

>>63926321 (OP)
All the other problems aside, I feel like mechs would be especially vulnerable to drones because of the way they target specific vulnerabilities and weakpoints
That said, I('m working my way through Gundam UC right now and the weapons and tactics (wire guided munitions, reliance on LOS for targeting and so on) seem to imply the heavy use of almost perfect EWAR in most combat situations which would surely impact the viability of drones in that context

>>63926321 (OP)
>>63931172

If mechs were used, it wouldn't be a weapon for peer forces but rather a counter-insurgency (or insurgency) weapons system. Their advantage is the ability to mount multiple weapons on hard points and swap them out on the fly, the ability to maneuver and travel over adverse terrain, and their height which would give them an edge in MOUT environments, despite making them a bigger target in an open area. There is also an often ignored 4th advantage and that is morale.

I don't care how "hard" a man is, seeing a multi-meter tall giant robot carrying a big gun would make him shit his pants in fear. And if the ambient noise and sounds of this thing walking around is as intense as I think it would be, the sheer rumble of the thing coming towards you would give any soldier pause. Hell, the rattle and report of heavy weapons systems is enough to cause long term damage to a soldier in various ways, a stompy robot would be even worse. By the same logic, it would also make it perfect for stopping riots and crowd control.

All of those factors make mechs perfect for crushing insurgencies and revolutionaries.

If there was a real timeline for mech development, it wouldn't be a large high-tech military using them to fight other peer forces, it would be a private company using tech they already have to crush uppity villagers who try to throw molotovs at their company vehicles or set oil wells on fire. The versatility of the mech being able to drop its rifle and dig a set of ditches in a urban environment to keep any heavy vehicles from closing in is something to consider as well, along with a mech being able to maneuver past said defenses much more easily than a vehicle or tank.

Or just kicking an insurgent or protestor into the stratosphere with its foot.

I think a better question is, what advancements in technology would the average person be able to utilize to stop a mech? And the answer to that is jack and shit.

(2/2)

What people don't ever get right in these conversations is the unfathomable power of the sensor fusion BattleTech brings to the table with the neuro helmet. Battlemechs can see you first and fire on you with an impulse, while already calculating how to deal with the next threat.

Launching LRMs down a trenchline while suppressing an ATGM position it saw clear as day with its through its magnified thermals with its arm mounted weapons all the while melting a tank with the torso ones is taxing on the mechwarrior but utterly doable. They are tall which is advantageous when you have an F-35 sensor suite capabilities on the terrestrial level.

So to answer the question... air assets and cruise missiles. They are huge fuck off machines that cost what today would be billions and while they have a lot of sustainment they have a big (literal) footprint and can be seen from space. Hiding in trees and buildings is difficult, so the second it stopped moving it would be shwacked. Also, modern attack helicopters get pretty close with the detection and reaction time, all the while being able to fly and hide. A real world Apache could probably hard kill a lore accurate Timberwolf with only a pinch of luck.

So even with the sci-fi power up of neuohelmets, myomer, AP resistant armor, and lasers... mechs aren't going to hit the battlefield in any foreseeable way.

>>63926574
Shut the fuck up retard.

>>63931246
UC has literal anti-EM radiation that forces everyone to use LoS and wire-guided. I'm not sure of any notable mecha series that goes with supergood EW as an explanation for anything.

>>63926321 (OP)
Smart weapons and ISR

>>63926321 (OP)
>macross/battletech crossover
>un spacy sees battlemechs
>WHY ARE THOSE DESTROIDS SO FUCKING SLOW
>battletech
>HOW IN THE FUCK ARE THOSE LAMS EVEN POSSIBLE!?!
>jpop intensifies
>then the LBX/AC2/pulse lasers get pulled out
>jpop stops

>>63931293
>battletech sensors
Are terrible.
>battletech weapon ranges
Are 1:1.
>reeeee
Go play ANY Mechwarrior game. With the exception of MW5/MW5 clans the weapon ranges were 1:1 to the tabletop.
>MW5
Is more Battletech:The RPG than Mechwarrior, and is good for what it is. However mods completely transform the game from alright to fucking amazing.

>>63931489
The official stance has always been that tabletop rules and ranges are abstractions for the sake of gameplay.

>>63931246
>which would surely impact the viability of drones in that context
Well, actually... they start using drones that are controlled by supernatural psychic powers instead

>>63928899
1983 in space doesnt have drone swarms, theyre running on 300 year old computers after a psyche shattering galactic civil war that was so bad the soldiers left over being disgusted and betrayed by the govt and useless shitbag retard "nobles".

filthy dumb clanner scum should have had them, but theyre too busy yiffing their child soldiers to build them. Comstar and blakists would have rocked them HARD

>>63931172
>>63931279
youre describing heavy gear.

>>63931499
>believes this
Congratulations you just made meele virtually impossible or every mech move at near supersonic to keep their movement profiles. OR, I like to believe that the ranges listed are the EFFECTIVE RANGES for battletech, not the absolute. For PBI/nonBAR10 armored units I'd have Biblically Accurate Ranges, making Combat Group Loss make much more sense. When a Machine gun suddenly gains AC2 ranges and can turn infantry into mush from 8 hexes out the amount of mechs and vehicles carrying them turns into a invaluable tool.

this discussion always ignores the fact that in battletech itself, mechs haven't replaced tanks. The mechs get all the glory, but in the actual lore they're just a small part of any army. Kind of like how knights get all the attention for medieval shit, but in reality the humble spear man was doing 99% of the work. the mechs are just the shock and awe special forces type things that get all the attention because they're cool

>So to answer the question... air assets and cruise missiles.
there's dedicated anti air mechs like the jaegermech that will fuck your air assets up, and as for cruise missiles, mechs can be fitted with literal laser CIWS pods so I don't know about that.

>>63931246
>because of the way they target specific vulnerabilities and weakpoints
this is actually a good point. Mech combat only works the way it does because the targeting systems are all 500 years old and barely functioning and running on vacuum tubes and nobody knows how any of it works. Any sort of modern targeting system would fuck a mech up

>>63931525
Battletech computers weigh a fucking ton. They are full retard tough (you can shoot them and they just lose some effectiveness rather than completely destroyed) and have batshit insane levels of storage but beyond that they are grossly inferior to irl computers.

>>63931346
battletech had them during the Amaris war in the 2700's before the A.I.s died killing each other to either go SKYNET, but across all known space, or to protect mankind and the SLDF.
>>63931547
and their shit is 300 years old and they couldnt even fix them properly or properly reset them in some cases, until the Grey Death legion found the Helm core and then the clanner invasion. they only started to really advance just as the dark age began, and even then they got better and more efficient HPGs and computers. its all comstars kooky shitheaded fault for that though. they were down to melee combat in 3015, and properly outfitting a mech cost the equivalent of entire planets GDP. just one.

also clanner Laser AMS is more than sufficient for drones.

>>63931547
it's fuckin bizarre their computers are so shit they need a guy with a neurohelmet on to keep the mech from tipping over, but meanwhile they're charting FTL jumps between stars and running delicate fusion reactors. Make it make sense

>>63931532
there is literally no universe in which the tabletop game ranges make sense. An AC-20 that can't hit anything after half a kilometer? that's like 1/4th as good as a modern tank shooting a smaller round. "Long range" missiles that only reach out to 1km? that's less range than some modern small arms snipers. The lasers are the only weapons that have somewhat believable ranges

>>63931543
>mechs haven't replaced tanks
Fuck if anything tanks have gotten more valuable, a gunline of Shrecks or Partisans protected by Mantacors's or Demolishers's will put the fear of god into mech jocks. Unlike mechs, CV's can alpha EVERY TURN.

>>63931581
>ranges
See "effective range".
>AC20
Battletech autocannons are WERID AS FUCK. They can be everything from burst fire, single shot (though Rifles get fucked over by this though) and the number designation is for gameplay only. A AC20 would either have to fire a long ass burst of smaller rounds or fire half a Volkswagen at you in round the size of a small child. Also those barrels are fucking short.

>>63926321 (OP)
In Gundam at least, the settings Minovski physics jam radars and long-range lock-on abilities thus necessitating closer range battles. This doesn't mean mechs are automatically optimal but that something is necessary so we don't just nuke each other from afar or have long-range space fleet battles.

>>63931489
>>63931293

The answer IRL is also usually the answer in MWLL and BT tabletop: artillery/air support

The pitiful ranges given to missiles in this setting are supposedly due to using trinary computing, which allowed for truly retarded levels of jamming/counter jamming for guided weapons systems. It's the only reason anybody bothers to break out ballistic and beam weapons, since the missile ranges are bad enough to make direct fire a viable alternative. And due to the crazy future armor tech, only the stupidest, most powerful (and and short ranged) weapons are deployed.

Unfortunately, loading an artillery battery with cubane-based high explosives and just blind firing them at a map grid that a spotter calls in is a great way to kill billions of C-bills with impunity. Similarly, the heavier aerospace units mount ludicrous alpha strikes and are only targetable in a narrow window during their dives (all BT air to ground combat is basically dive bombing because JDAMs are lostec). But there is no reason a heavy bomber wing can't just paste a lance from outside any mech's sensor range.

>>63931581
>but meanwhile they're charting FTL jumps between stars
Battletech and Wing Commander have similar jump node FTL where there are both stable and transient FTL locations that sometimes serve as a natural chokepoint. The unstable nodes of course have a chance to go somewhere unintended or destroy the jumping vessel.

Zenith/Nadir are the primary jump points of most systems in battletech.

>>63931700
>Gundam
And "anti laser coating" which makes lasers useless.
>minovsky particals
I love how it outright violates virtually every law of thermodynamics and electromagnetic principles.
>turn on m-reactor
>it either emp's itself or the resulting interference makes the pilot blind
It's like Dune shields, any wearer would be blind, passing out from heat exhaustion or C02 poisoning within a minute.

>>63931525
Kerensky and Blake are major reasons why the BT universe is so fucked up. Given the power he wielded Kerensky could have guided the galaxy out of the mess Amaris created but instead ceded authority to the Great Houses despite knowing they would be unable to form a new government and all would try to take over the Star League for themselves. Then when the Great Houses inevitably started the war he knew they would start if he did what he did, he immediately rounded up the only forces that could serve as a stabilizing factor and fucked off. And not to the Periphery where the SLDF could have protected and developed the minor powers and colonies while the Inner Sphere fucked itself bloody but to the middle of fucking nowhere. At which point they decided to immediately have their own civil war and turn themselves into totally not!Great Houses with totem animals and batchalls. And Blake, knowing that interstellar communication was the cornerstone of galactic civilization, decided the best course of action would be a campaign of self-serving political maneuvering to invest himself an exceptional amount of soft power by sucking off the Great Houses. That in turn meant that ComStar was not only functionally sacrosanct and immune to conflict, but also that the Great Houses were the best equipped to maintain long campaigns of interstellar warfare thanks to your local ComStar representative at the cost of the Periphery getting fucked. Oh, and they also intentionally exacerbated and facilitated centuries of conflict to weaken the military power of literally everyone while engaging in an intentional campaign of technological repression and regression of everyone not named ComStar because in addition to being an exploitative telecom company they were also Scientology, Blackwater, and JP Morgan playing the long game to take over the known universe.

>>63931246
>seem to imply the heavy use of almost perfect EWAR in most combat situations
UC has the fictional Minovsky particle which render radio waves and other forms of long range communications and tracking ineffective. Ships can scatter them and increase the density, hence why combat situations are all close in.

>>63926368
>shidddddd :D

Because mechas are gay

>>63926587
That's why the world should invest into making aeromorphs to make it less gay

>>63931946
>Kerensky
Bingo. That fucker FAILED on every account, failed as a steward, failed as a general, failed as a leader, failed as a father, and finally his heart failed. If Kerensky stayed and kept the Hegemony intact, the Succession Wars would have never have happened.
>if the SW kicked off
Kerensky would have told the House Lords to knock that shit off-
>Kentares happens
Let's just say House Kurita gets the Amaris Treatment.

Battletech literally had to make nuke ships illegal because they were too good and limit direct combat to prevent nuke chimpouts in order to get mechs to be viable, mechs aren't viable, nothing big and not easily maneuverable is viable until they can dodge big boy missiles.

>>63931723
Super advanced coding sounds cool, but insulated machine learning you program and put into missiles is already a thing and makes jamming obsolete, you'd have to optically confuse the machine learning computer in the missile.

>>63932126
>Let's just say House Kurita gets the Amaris Treatment.
my body is ready

>>63932126
If I were doing BT, I'd probably have a minor retcon where Kerensky did try to bring the Great Houses to heel but underestimated just how loyal people would be to the Great Houses. So when the Great Houses began recalling their forces and people from the SLDF he lost far more personnel, equipment, and the logistics to supply and maintain both than he accounted for. Meanwhile I'd have Blake's establishment of ComStar's neutrality combined with their monopoly on FTL comms and mapping plus creating a de facto universal currency gutted his ability to have any other influence beyond his military forces. That'd make him come off as less of an idiot and more a guy whose hand was weaker than he assumed. Also for extra irony I'd have Operation Exodus' original goal be the Periphery, only to find no one in the Periphery wanted them there because Kerensky was emblematic of SLDF policy to keep the Periphery weak, poor, and underdeveloped for the benefit of the Inner Sphere and saw him no different than another Great House come to exploit them.

>>63932126
>hat fucker FAILED on every account
exactly. lil Kerensky should have been smothered in his sleep by the SLDF leadership during the exodus.

>>63932244
No, they should have immediately arrested him for attempting desertion.

>>63932227
It was a fucking wonder that they didn't after the shit they pulled during the Amaris Coup.

>>63931172
The mobile suits in Gundam were originally designed for space warfare (and assaulting colonies).
They only went through with the invasion of Earth when the spacers initial shock & awe assault of WMD warcrimes failed to make the Federation surrender.

>>63931468
>>then the LBX/AC2/pulse lasers get pulled out
Wouldn't make a difference.

>>63931489
The sensors are fictional, simultaniously capable of impossible space magic while also being laughably blind.

You are just wrong about the lore.