Thread 63937392

>Rough mountanois terrain dont allow for Armor
>Take walker
>Make it a lil bit speedy
>Attach 20km laser guided(infantry/drones paint the targets) missiles like an atgm carrier
>Serves as close support and can fuck off once done to reload
>When on flat terrain just have it have regular wheels/threads

God fuck off back to /m/ already you faggot.
>hear me out guys
>FICTIONAL WANK
>what if?
At least come up with something original you cum chugging faggot.

>>63937392 (OP)
Or alternatively, fuck the legs and give it rotor blades so it can hover.

>>63937392 (OP)
50 ton weight
4m2 footprint
> walk up mountain
Physics

>>63937392 (OP)
tell me what makes it superior to an attack helo

>>63937483
Costs less, fuel efficiency, less thermal signature for missiless, doesnt have to expose himself to shoot

>>63937392 (OP)
I do think there is room for walkers in modern war. Something along the lines of infantry support or as fear/suppression of occupied areas. They will be as vulnerable as ever other vehicle on the battlefield.

>>63937392 (OP)
>drones paint the target
The ousted itself. Get purged xenos.

>gorillionth "can we make mek" thread

how about "if you had a gigantic walking war machine, what kind of crazy shit would you put on it?"
>big fuckoff cannon
>racks and racks of missiles
>cover the whole thing with Ma Deuces because fuck infantry

>>63937407
>to /m/
???

>>63937985
>>gorillionth "can we make mek
Its a drone remotly piloted and is basicaly a walking VLS cell/ATGM carrier

>>63937555
vulnerable to arty, can't take evasive maneuvers, mobility killed by toppling over, slower, terrain-gnostic, inverse-square law like >>63937479 said, shall I go on?
stupid fucking mechposters, every time with this shit. even in SPACE there'd be no reason to use one over, say, a ship. the concept itself is dumb.

>>63937392 (OP)
It's a bitch to paint when assembled
t. guard player

>>63937392 (OP)
I'm having a hard time picturing any terrain that a bipedal mech could cross that a tank couldn't.

Six- or eight-legged walkers seem like the only design likely to have a practical advantage on rough terrain.

>>63937392 (OP)
nu-sentiniel, rounded shitty lines, "astra militarum" faggory.
2nd edition sentinel, straight lines, looks so much better. Imperial guard, fuck yeah.

1st creation sentinel is an abomination and should never have been made.

>>63937392 (OP)
Why is every retards idea of why mechs work rough terrain? Have you ever watched a robot try to walk on anything but flat ground? You need tracks even more on rough terrain retard.

>>63938235
Imperial guard was too generic to copyright.

>>63937555
>costs less
lmao
>fuel efficiency
how are you fuelling it anon?
>less thermal signature for missiles
the same way a tank is?
>doesn't have to expose himself to shoot
???

I think mechs are awesome but anyone who unironically defends their use irl is a fucking retard

>>63938569
>Put a vls cell on the thing
>target are painted by drones

>>63938552
I'm aware, as were eldar and whatever else.
My point being is that astra militarum sounds dogshit. Absolute. Total. Dogshit.

>>63938626
zthey got some cool stuff too.
Their main thing is armor from what ive seen.

>>63938626
Aeldari, which are split into Asuryani and Drukhari. Exodites got to keep their old name because it was already copyrightable I guess.

>>63937479
>>63938203
Sentinels, specifically, aren't 20gorillion ton armored behemoths, they're basically the future space equivalent of driving a dirtbike into battle. They have about as much armor as a wet piece of tissue paper and die to basic infantry weapons.
The Sentinel is basically just a scouting/recon vehicle with a gun just barely big enough to make enemy infantry fuck off into cover while it runs away, it's not going to have a significant enough weight issue to bring up the usual square-cube autism.

As for how useful they should be as scouts, I think that depends too much on which specific instance of 40k you choose to use. They can be anywhere from "able to sprint and jump around like an ostrich over fallen trees, boulders, small ravines, up or down short cliffs, etc" to "trundles forward awkwardly, trips on fallen trees, and isn't really any better than a wheeled vehicle off road"

>>63938984
As Space Marine 2 shows they also get used as the imperium's equivalent of the Aliens power loader.

>>63937392 (OP)
>Rough mountanois terrain dont allow for Armor
>Take walker
>trip on a bad spot
>fall down a ravine
FTFY

>>63939011
That's been far older. IIRC the powerlifter Sentinel actually had tabletop game rules rules in Imperial Armour Vol.1 when it released back in 2003.

>>63938984
cool so we replaced "so heavy it falls through concrete" with "so underarmored some dipshit with a rifle can take it out", outstanding
let's also not forget OP presented them as "shoot and scoot" alternatives, not scouts
the question >>63937483 was, how is one of these better than an attack helo, we've yet to hear a proper argument in their favor

>>63939052
Are modern attack helos made out of plassteel? Do they mount plasma weapons?

>>63939081
ok so now we're just completely ignoring the thread premise, cool. >>>/tg/

>>63939085
Are we not discussing the sentinel specifically?

>>63937392 (OP)
Why the fuck does it look so similar to an AT-ST?

>>63939097
did the sentinel ever mount "20km laser guided missiles like an atgm carrier"?

>>63938044
The mecha board, where walkerfags are contained.

>>63939104
I don't collect guard so I am not super familiar with the sentinel's weapon options, but I imagine it has some manner of anti air option, as multiple other imperial faction walker vehicles have said option.

>>63939104
They can take a hunter killer missile. I haven't played recent versions, but back in the day they had unlimited range if memory serves.

>>63939117
>>63939135
then either we ARE discussing the sentinel specifically, the entire thread is off-topic as it doesn't pertain to existing/upcoming weapons/military equipment but instead to a topic better covered on >>>/m/ or >>>/tg/ and it gets moved/deleted, or we're discussing walkers in general, the thread image was simply a placeholder, fictional materials don't apply and the question remains unanswered.

>>63939152
Fuck off, it can be both and there's plenty of fictional weapon discussion on this board.

>>63938984
Except they are multiple ton vehicles. Look at the pictures, the steel plates are 1 inch thick, the legs have thick hydraulic cylinders and the knee hubs are huge. It's built like a caterpillar which is necessary to lift it's own weight, however caterpillars are not fast machines, even lightweight ones, and they do not carry any armor at all.

Look at the IDF's bulldozers that are actually armored up, they have a ridiculously slow speed and are only used to safely demolish people's houses so that they leave.

>>63939152
Just checked the sticky, nothing about a weapon being fictional or not. You know, you could go not have fun elsewhere.

>>63939174
>steel plates

Plassteel plates.

>>63939182
>Plassteel
Isn't it supposed to be lost technology?

How light is it compared to steel? If it is lighter it will be more vulnerable to some weapons.

The bearings and hydraulic cylinders will be made out of real steel anyway and the legs alone will weight as much as an excavator arm, meaning about 8 tons for the legs alone. In order to move so much metal you'll need a heavy engine, especially if you need it to move fast and since it's intended for scouting it needs a lot of fuel.

Without any armor or weapons we're at 12 tons already.

What I find stupid is that this is a universe where antigravity engines are commonplace, you could use one such engine to lift 90% of the machine's weight off the ground and then use much lighter legs. But then it'd look too much like a bug and not enough like the Star Wars walkers they copied it from.

>>63939257
Well, if you want a "realistic" 40k walker with bug legs and presumably some anti-grav tech, there's always the Adeptus Mechanicus walkers.

>>63939257
The imperium functions like the inner sphere from Battletech, in that they know enough to keep the machines running, they just can't build more of them. Plassteel is one example of such, the imperium might not know how it's made exactly, but the machines do, and they know how to run and maintain the machines. As for it's properties, plassteel has the advantages of the materials it's a portmanteau of, it is as strong as steel, but has the weight of plastic.

>>63939282
>description says the onager uses the Mars universal land engine(M.U.L.E.)for locomotion, and that is based on the creatures their ancestors domesticated and rode on ancient Terra before they left to colonize Mars

I know it's probably referring to actual mules, but I think it would be funnier that so much of humanities ancient history has been lost that the tech priests actually think humans domesticated and rode around on giant crabs.

>>63938222
The previous incarnation was superior anyways.
No I will never not be mad that our big revamp included one unnecessary replacement (Sentinel) and one unnecessary addition (Dorn; we already had the Macharius and Malcador) instead of something useful like a light vehicle or trukk-equivalent or some kind of modular infantry kit to do regiments other than Cadia/Krieg/Catachan/specific Ghosts (fuck's sake, even just a *regular* Ghosts squad would have been an improvement).
Birmingham delenda est.

>>63937392 (OP)
>Rough mountanois terrain

So what IS over there?

Why do you need to go there?

>>63939257
There is zero explanation of plassteel actually is or how light it is. Any talk about how light it is is just fanwanking. But 40k is a setting of degraded technology where a suit of "feudal plate" is both lighter and stronger than the supposedly highly advanced carapace armor (Dark Heresy), so I guess that's your confirmed baseline lmao.

>>63939327
I 'm guessing you're also mad Straken and Harker have been squatted. Hopefully that means them and the rest of the catachans are getting new minis. But seeing as they killed Creed and replaced him with his daughter...

>>63939333
Heretics, to kill them.

>>63939337
Rogue trader, the vidya, says it has the strength of steel while weighing as much as plastic. So until GW contradicts that, it's the closest to official stats we have.

>>63939117
>I don't collect guard
Good so shut up.

>so I am not super familiar with the sentinel's weapon options
Well at least you're self-aware (I hope) of how stupid you are.

>but I imagine it has some manner of anti air option
It doesn't.

>as multiple other imperial faction walker vehicles have said option
Which are mostly bullet and shell based, with guided weapons being either archeotech or rare weapons with rare ammo guided by human brains harvested from loyal serfs who volunteer.

And also ATGMs aren't anti air weapons unless you happen to be fighting Russia in 2022.

>>63939340
On second thought, if that ends up with us getting an entire regiment of tank top wearing muscle girls, I am fine with it. Cata-Chan will finally be real.

>>63939351
Videogames aren't canon. Until they are. But they're not.

>>63939363
Abelard, tell this anon that Rogue Trader counts because of how awesome it is!

>>63939052
Attack Helicopter price tag=$52 million USD
Attack Helicopters also require pilots with extensive training and shitloads of maintenance

Cardboard armor robort walker price tag= a lot less than $52 million. You can't really attach USD prices to 40k shit because of various issues including "shit writing", but one way to look at it is that in the video games a Sentinel costs less than a basic IFV, APC, light tank, etc by a significant margin.
Shitty recon walker also require pilots with training on par with "here's how it goes forwards, here's how it goes backwards, ok go get em champ!"

A dirt cheap scouting/recon/hit and run vehicle that's able to be piloted by any old conscript seems useful to me.

>>63939174
Anon it's the future. That armor could be made from tungsten to aerogel or anything in between, but the simple fact is that regardless of what it's made of it's both light enough to be defeated by cultists using guns equivalent to .556 modern rifles in multiple games and is explicitly described as "lightweight" by characters in different sources.
>caterpillars are not fast machines, even lightweight ones
Caterpillars are not bipedal walkers. They are also explicitly not allowed to move as fast as they could for safety reasons, but that's utterly irrelevant because other than being a similar size the two vehicles are completely different.
It's irrelevant anyways, since there is no indication that the "hydraulics" are anything but pneumatic suspension, and if anything, looking closer the design would imply that it's servo powered as there is nothing for the "hydraulics" to actuate in the first place.

>>63939340
Kinda, Guard special characters always felt a bit weird to me. I don't mind them, and I do feel a pang when they're gone, but I'm not *too* torn up since it's the Guard - to me, Capt. Al'Rahem is less "Capt. Al'Rahem, the man himself and only the man himself" and more "Capt. Al'Rahem, the archetypal Tallarn light infantry commander and all the shenanigans that entails (but also the man himself if that's your thing)". I'm more salty that GW has effectively given up on the variety of the Guard infantry, even if we still have Victoria and Mad Robot and Anvil Industries and Wargames Atlantic and Mortian and all the rest to pick up the slack.

>>63939291
The thing is, you cannot combine all the qualities of both materials because some things can be good or bad.

Is plasteel as light as plastic? If it is that would be a good thing for weight consideration, but a bad thing for armor, because any weapon that relies on burning it now has to burn only a fraction of the material. Energy weapons should tear right trough it.

>>63939282
I like this one better, but I like the big necron scarab even better. With anti grav tech you can just design any vehicle like a zeppelin without the balloon, which would be pretty boring. But you could have arms and claws on the front to move easier when close to the ground.

>>63939291
Yeah I know it's lazily written. Reminds me of Harry Potter.

>>63939432
The legs of the sentinel are clearly just arms from heavy equipment. You can see the big bearings and the hydraulic cylinders. You know excavator arms move slowly and are heavy, especially compared to wheels.

I know the artists that designed it don't know how their inspiration sources work, again it's supposed to look cool not be realistic. That universe has anti gravity tech, it makes no sense not to use it here.

>>63937392 (OP)
>>When on flat terrain just have it have regular wheels/threads
Why not have it have wheels (in place of the silly feet) from the start?

>>63937392 (OP)
It's called a helicopter buddy.

>>63939174
>>63939182
Probably more importantly, you can't really judge thickness of the plates by the models, they're small and there are limits to how thin they can make them. Lore and rules make it seem about on par with 3/8" AR500 or something like that.

>>63937407
>I Hate Fun

>>63939624
Antigrav that could be applied to anything smaller than a Thunderhawk was losttech until Daddy Cawl got permission from Bobby G to take things apart to figure out how they work.

>>63938984
Dirt bikes clock in at like 300 lbs anon, any equivalent mech would be power armor.

>>63939660
Instructions unclear, dick stuck in beam rotor

>>63939686
Yes, I do. What now you whimpering boywhore?

>>63941332
300lbs is a fat fuck dirtbike, that's what my dual sport weighs. That anon means that it's a very mobile but unprotected vehicle though, maybe more like an unarmored humvee or one of those glorified side by sides they carry in Ospreys. That said the Sentinels in this thread are the uparmored versions that are supposedly pretty resistant against infantry weapons though, the dirtbike comparison makes more sense with the classic base Sentinel that's basically a sheet metal tub with an open top.

>>63937407
>>63939112
>>63941365
People are obviously engaging with this thread though aren't they retard. I don't get why self righteous idiots like you think you get to decide how the board is ran, I can't stand all the /pol/luters, anime and furry degeneracy that plagues this board but I'm an actual grown up and avoid it instead of crying like a bitch

Iron Rebellion is 1.0 now (after nearly 8 years of beta).

It's neat, but there's no non-mech units since it's all PVP.

>>63937392 (OP)

Any revolution in manufacturing process or material composition that would allow for "Mechs" would be applied to existing tanks and jets making them far more superior and more practical than these Mechs.
Mechs will never happen.

>>63942513
I don't know how long you've been here, but random anime shit has literally always been a part of this site, and this board.

>>63942823
Nice mech, bro.

>>63941455
Enduro bikes.

For me, it's good ol' Awesome.
Stalker is also welcome.
Clanner scum can fuck off.

>>63943171
Based and SenisterDennister pilled.

>>63939152
Fuck off you level 2.

>>63938222
well paint it before assembling like you should

>>63937392 (OP)
Even as a /m/an I've never understood the fascination with "proving" mecha.
It's missing the point a bit I think.
Especially with something as silly as 40k

>>63942822
>NOOOO STOP SHARING 40K GO AWAY I HATE YOU NO FUN ALLOWED
>a-anime belongs here guys even if it's literal degeneracy that's got even less to do with weapons
How surprising

>>63944593
Stop blaspheming

>>63946987
Anime website.
Cry more faggot.

>>63947158
>Anime website.
>Cry more faggot.

>>63947162
Seethe

>>63946994
40k was at it's best when it didn't take itself too seriously and I will die on that hill

>>63947176
>comes into a thread to cry about the topic
>reveals himself to be a degenerate paedophile
>SEETHE SEETHE CRY MORE

>>63947190
Don't care SM2 was a huge success

>>63947202
I don't know why you think I'd consider that a bad thing. More 40k content is good even if it's not the tone I prefer

>>63939102
Small Indie Company pls no bully

>>63939102
Because pedipulator style walkers with regular knees look funny

>>63947859
Also in case you've ever wondered where Lucas got the inspiration for the AT-AT from.
No shame in the game though, shit's cool

>>63937392 (OP)
Mechs were outdated before they were ever invented. The only way battletech is able to justify mechs is by having 1980's era technology that never advanced in terms of sensors or stand-off weapons.

>>63947884
That's like all scifi combat isn't it?
No one wants BVR missile dronehell in their fiction

>>63947884
>Deepstrikes with Terminators on your airbase
What now?

>>63939624
>Is plasteel as light as plastic?
No, it's as heavy as steel and as strong as plastic.

>>63938569
>>fuel efficiency
>how are you fuelling it anon?
Doesn't really matter.
It should be blatantly obvious that bipedal locomotion is far more energy efficient than having to constantly counter gravity with aerodynamic lift force.
Still nowhere near as efficient as wheels.

>>63949398
>wraithcannons your terminators
nothing personnel, mon'keigh

>>63949666
YWNBAE

>>63939327
Watching them release the plastic Malcador and refusing to update its rules despite changing their game every three fucking months made me snap. 10th is such a miserable pile of slop I can’t believe got out of its testing phase, assuming it had one.

>>63938228
It's a shame pic related got bought by john deere and promptly forgot about

>>63937392 (OP)
>Falls over because it has the center of balance of a toddler

>>63937555
>Costs less

>>63937555
>doesnt have to expose himself to shoot
It's 20 feet fucking feet tall nigger

>>63937392 (OP)
>games workshop: we wiil sue you for everthing
>also games workshop:

>>63942822
gundam is an anime
gundam is about mechs
Therefore, mechs are /k/

>>63951054
But ZZ gundam explicitly told me it wasn't an anime!

Why does 40k hate rotary flight so much?

>>63939102
earily 40k was a handful of star wars jokes together with a trench coat thrown on

>>63939282
>fatter
>knife feet literally stabbing into the dirt
I don't get how people say bipeds sink into the ground before turning around and praising shit like this. Are quadrupeds really that much better even when the actual surface area in contact with the ground is way smaller?

Mecks are retarded even in universe therenare better options.

>>63955549
Whirlybirds are an abomination in the eyes of God and nature and nothing good can come of them.

>>63955549
orks use deffkoptas and warkopptas and ork kommandos(Special forces ork) use chinorks to get in and out of the killzone.

>>63938984
>the future space equivalent of driving a dirtbike into battle

No, those are the dirtbikes

>>63955984
and colonies have access to armored reconnaissance vehicles that the IG doesn't use for some reason, preferring chicken walkers

>>63955549
Not futuristic enough. Also, the blades tend to snap off.

>>63955549
>that mold line on the bolter

>>63956788
Why does sci-fi hate helicopters so much.
It's gay

>>63958632
Sci-fi lit has fuck tons of choppers

>>63958632
RULE 1 OF MECHFAGGOTRY
YOU AIRLIFT SHIT WITH HELICOPTERS

>>63958910
I need to watch dougram already.
The mechanical design is something else

>>63943171
Need to go chonkier.

>>63937392 (OP)
God I hate the new Sentinels so much. Fucking roundy ass egg shits. Why the fuck can't Guard be angular anymore?

>>63938984
>T8 7W 2+
>dying to S3
Haha no

>>63959120
>marik
>ppcs
Lol, lamo.

>>63958936
it's not even a mecha show, it's 4-10 dudes smoking in some board room plotting shit most of the time, with robot battles to keep ratings up and the board room plotting sometimes effecting the robot battles
makes for a really good military/political drama anime, but it's held back from being a good /k/ anime because there's a lack of real guns in it.

>>63959149
Canonicaly killed a titan on its own btw.

>>63959720
Fuck yeah

>>63955984
Damn that's cool. Reasonable motorcycles are a rarity in sci-fi in general, I had no idea GSCs of all things had a pretty plausible dirtbike. (Actually more of a dual sport, maybe.)

>>63958632
Most SF I can think of eschews any sort of dedicated atmospheric aircraft in favor of stuff that can fly in both space and atmo. Depending on franchise it might not make a lot of sense to have helos even when there ARE atmo craft because a lot of planets and moons don't have the right atmospheric density or whatever, while a jet or rocket (or space magic ion engine or whatever) VTOL could deal with a much wider range of conditions.

>>63938984
>as much armor as wet tissue paper
Depending on the armored or scout variant they are toughness 7 or 8 so the infantry weapons you need are the specifically anti-armor weapons like plasma or melta.
>gun is just to scare infantry while it runs away
No, your sentinels should be armed with heavy flamers and sentinel chainsaws and run into melee where it gets 3 S6 AP-1 melee attacks and d6 autohitting heavy flamer attacks. Unless your opponent is melee focused, then they should have a missile launcher and hunter-killer missile and be a highly mobile heavy weapons platform that skirmishes or targets units from far away.

>>63939117
In 8th and 9th edition you didn’t need anti-air weapons because the flyers were so low toughness and wounds and hard to hit that flame weapons were a really good choice against them. Even better if you were Orks and had a shitty ballistic skill.

>>63955549
Helicopters are archeotech and lost technology, please understand. But you can fanwank a headcanon it by saying that the Imperial Guard are retarded on purpose to make coups (very) slightly harder, and part of that retardation is having air power be space navy-based. In which case rotary ring has everything wrong from a political and technical perspective.

>>63961167
>Depending on franchise it might not make a lot of sense to have helos even when there ARE atmo craft because a lot of planets and moons don't have the right atmospheric density
I like SF with a wide variety of craft. Avoiding rotors is something specific, because early 20th C SF had plenty of whirlygig aircraft.
>>63958632
Your pic alludes to why. Much of the SF of the past few decades was written by Boomers with Huey trauma.
>cue Fortunate Son surf remix

>>63961320
Just use a Mek gunz with Shook attack gun

>>63961167
GSC's whole aesthetic is populist uprising, so they use lower tech vehicles and weaponry, theie heavy vehicle option is a tunnel borer that the imperium uses for mining.

>>63961244
>as much armor as wet tissue paper
Anon might've also been referring to the old AV system where Scouts were 10/10/10 Open-Topped (ie, could be glanced to death by standard bolters) and Armoured Sentinels were...12/10/10, IIRC (better, to be sure, but still not great).

>>63959718
Yeah I think that's where it lost me last time.
Don't get me wrong I like that kind of thing but one needs to be in the right mood.
Gotta get around to watching patlabor too.

>>63961412
Yeah, I'm just surprised by how close it is to a normal modern bike, it actually looks rideable (at least in terms of proportions and geometry) which is really rare in SF. Most franchises tend to make dumb oversized Akira bikes even when they're trying to look "low tech" by their settings' standards.

>>63959120
too chonk. Igleasias' AWS is the best AWS, imo.

>>63961401
Excuse me sir, the Turtlecopter® is clearly a jetranger

>>63937392 (OP)
>tries to walk up a mountain
>trips

>>63966693
That's me but without the mech

>>63963468
>dumb Akira bikes
what is that even supposed to mean? the bikes in Akira were all sick. Akira is the greatest motorcycle gang movie of all time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULKYRkYwrHQ
volume all the way up

>>63963468
Spaess mehreens have bikes too, they just look really weird because they're made to support a guy in hundreds of pounds of power armor. Orks have bikes that look like a pile of trash on wheels, but again, that's their aesthetic; we are a bunch of green retards that were born yesterday, who built all our gear from the trash you guys throw away, but we are still a credible threat because of our instinctual knowledge of combat and technology.

>>63937392 (OP)
>*gets blown up by a 600$ chinese drone*

>>63966767
Ain't no China in the year 40,000. There are space mongols though, thus proving once again that they are superior to chinksects.