Post gear, discuss gear
Talk about earpro
Previous: >>63929644

First for you're all big gay.

>page 1
holy shit relax

Reposting because op was lightning on this bread.
>>63949796
>4800
And reddit was drumming the 4800 as REV. J ESAPI standalone. 3x M2AP or 3x M995. This is why you don't get armor advice from /r/tacticalgear. The new 4801 is around 5.5lb. Major downgrade. Could be SiC with that weight.
>Combat Systems
EU-based outfit, we've discussed them before. No certs, business address is sketchy, their RF2 all-PE is inferior to a Hesco 3810B in virtually every way and costs too much for its advantages. Nice effort but it's not impressive unless positive buoyancy is a must-have and shot spacing limit needs to be tight.
>28855
Two reasons I think.
1. Armor companies rarely make plates bespoke. Models share components with other models. Hesco 3810 is the 3800 with an Alumina strike face added. The L211 is the 4403 with a lot of backer removed. RMA XRT is a Level IV with backer reduced. This simplifies production and saves money.
Accordingly, the LTC 28855, using a new form of PE, is probably just a backer-only, sans-strike-face companion to some badass boron carbide plate - probably gunning for one of the GEN-6B SOCOM contracts. Backer is stronger and can now contend with easy steel cores on its own, so we can thin the strike face a little. PE is lighter than B4C. No ceramics are presently available lighter than B4C.
2. It's a proof of concept for future all-PE plates, and this technology will eventually get us under the weight floor (3.5lb) of ceramic-PE M855 III+. Ceramics aren't moving, so alternate routes have to be taken.

Alright we need some infographics. Other guy's got the earpro one, so time for ones pertinent to le operating.

So I suppose in theory a B.E. Meyers GRI2P can be used as a firestarter.

Lightly refreshed the /bag/ guide, added the VS-PBZSA since it's better than the LTC 28791 Apex-can't-ship Solutions is peddling for five thousand dollars a pair.

Latest version of the magazine pouch infographic. The Condor MA33 got moved to the /pfg/ department.

First aid infographic. Last one for now.

>>63950050
What are some good sources for FP units? I see them on EE and the hide every now and then but is there any where else i should keep an eye on?
Im torn between a mawl and a raid xe. I guess whichever i find for a better price.

>>63950120
Unironically /r/gundeals, reddit GAFS, tacswap, ebay. Ebay has the best return policy, especially for counterfeits (INAD that shit), and the Chinese have persuasive fakes for both Mawls and XEs. It's also lately the hot spot for "hot" stuff like dazzlers, such as the LA-12s discussed two threads ago that were going for $350 a pop.

does anyone have any experience with the fanny sack from spiritus? i had the sack pouch that dangles from my pc but got rid of it since it would just move too much when running. does the fanny sack have the same issue or will it stay still without jumping around?

>>63950295
It's literally just a fanny pack. It will bounce if it's not tight. The end.

>>63950321
right and all made differently, asking if its asking stable enough to have items in it and move around, if you've used the one that connects to a pc it moves around no matter where ive adjusted it

>>63950352
No, there is nothing spiritus does that makes it any different than any other fanny pack. It will be stable if you tighten it around your waist. It will not be stable if you do not tighten it around your waist. It's a fanny pack, they all work the same.

>>63949895
> Accordingly, the LTC 28855, using a new form of PE, is probably just a backer-only, sans-strike-face companion to some badass boron carbide plate - probably gunning for one of the GEN-6B SOCOM contracts. Backer is stronger and can now contend with easy steel cores on its own, so we can thin the strike face a little. PE is lighter than B4C. No ceramics are presently available lighter than B4C.
LTC's backers as per Buffman are 9-10mm thick. An all-PE plate that weighs >3.5 pounds and stops M855 would need to be a hell of a lot thicker. Also the backer to an ultralight boron carbide plate would need to be thin.
I think that imaginary plates like the 28855 should be left off infographics until proof surfaces, otherwise we might end up in the same situation as the old /bag/ infographics, which were full of fake/misleading or misunderstood plates.

>>63950352
Fanny packs are a retarded way of carrying anything. They have fuck all capacity, occupy a wholly inconvenient space on your body, and flop around everywhere even when you walk at a leisurely pace. Fire and movement will immediately dislodge your fanny pack from wherever you think it is securely positioned and it will be an enormous inconvenience to you
>I’ll do the strap up tight
My padded belt used to end up backwards and under my armpits after the first few bounds. If you’ve done fire and movement with a spare barrel in a bag you’ll know that ends up wrapped around your neck or nearly impaling you.
>Fanny pack is good because I can have it in front when I’m in a vehicle and swing it behind me when I’m on foot
When you’re sprinting and crawling doing fire and movement, your fanny pack is going to be doing laps around your torso like a hula hoop or it’s going to be under your crotch scraping into the ground and making crawling and going prone uncomfortable as fuck.

>>63951258
Backers for their existing plates, yes. We don't know the exact PE used in the 28855. It might be able to get away with being thinner.
Since we can't prove the 28855 does or does not exist, I'll keep it in the bullshitto corner as a a way to note it's rumored but possibly fake. Much easier than backtracking in the archive for that plate that was mentioned one time.

>>63951359
> We don't know the exact PE used in the 28855. It might be able to get away with being thinner.
Think about it. That would make it less than two pounds rather than the four pounds or whatever was claimed.
Also, "rumored" by one extremely retarded Redditor? Not exactly a reliable source. Reddit is 95% fake.

>>63950120
eBay has millions of them, and if you buy a fake they'll cover your losses.

>>63951376
There wasn't a claimed weight. The bullshitto specs are safe deductions from the Combat Systems plate.
>less than 2lb
Funny how the recently released Hesco 3801 is well under that. I have my questions about that plate, and it's in no way capable against M855, but LTC's attempt would surely be better. We don't know the exact PE used here.
>>63951396
And they'll make the seller pay for return shipping!

>>63951396
>>63951413
Im not sure if you guys are fucking with me about ebay. Im sure they pop up but it seems like outside of peq 15s there are a couple dozen full power options, most of them being steiner or zentico stuff.
No fp mawls and a few overpriced raid xes.

>>63951542
I was mostly referring to the Chink clone gear which is often, unironically, just as good.
What specs are you actually after?

How padded are Lowas? I like my current high top Salomon quests except for the goretex and how thick and padded they are

A small amount of padding is fine or else I’d just jungle style boots

https://strawpoll.com/61gD93rmvZw

AR15 Barrel length straw poll

>>63952016

>>63951757
Very. Renegades here though. I honestly cannot stand the goretex. They make excellent cold weather boots, but you'll be wishing for cool feet in the summer. Personally keep coming back to a good pair of leather hiking boots.

>>63951542
You kinda have to pull a social game and use completed sales to figure out who "gets" them, then see if they can get more.
>>63951595
Eeeh we'll agree to disagree on the Chinese XEs / Mawls. They're comparable to Somo, tops.
HFXC remains the bar by which all /pfg/ LAMs are measured.

>>63951757
they make these without goretex but they are harder to find

>>63952132
2x dick length

>>63951595
Im planning to put it on a scar so im paranoid about getting a unit and bricking it within a magazine.
I know the mawl is suppose to be ok, i imagine the raid would be as well.
Theres a peq 15 version that has been hardend but im not 100% sure on how to tell by pictures and i dont trust most descriptions.

Ive heard great things about the iris and i wouldnt be super opposed but again im worried it will break.

There are a lot of FP raid xes floating around right now, or at least way more that i could find. Ive also heard its one of the best units around at the moment so i might just pull the trigger on one. Gotta sleep on it.

Here is what I have so far in terms of raw text. Still deciding in how I want to present info. Tentatively thinking base/destitute (plugs) - mid (leights) - high tiers (MSA & 3M). If anyone has suggested changes or things they'd like to see, let me know.

Earplugs
Noise Reduction Rating (NRR): 29 dB
Battery type: None
Estimated life: Disposable, replace when deformed or dirty.
Comms capable: no
Connector (if applicable): N/A
Submersion/Waterproofing: N/A
Compatible suspension methods: N/A
Earmuff (pads) upgrade available: N/A

Howard Leight Impact Sport
Noise Reduction Rating (NRR): 22 dB
Battery type: 2 AAA
Estimated life: 300-350 hours
Comms capable: yes
Connector (if applicable): 3.5mm
Submersion/Waterproofing: None, water resistant.
Compatible suspension methods: Neckband, headband, helmet mount
Earmuff (pads) upgrade available: Yes, Noisefighters

MSA Sordin Supreme Pro-X
Noise Reduction Rating (NRR): 19 dB
Battery type: 2 AAA
Estimated life: 350-400 hours
Comms capable: yes
Connector (if applicable): 3.5mm
Submersion/Waterproofing: Yes, IP67 for base headset
Compatible suspension methods: Neckband, headband, helmet mount
Gel cup upgrade available: Yes, 3M
Earmuff (pads) upgrade available: Yes, MSA and Noisefighters

3M Peltor Comtac V
Noise Reduction Rating (NRR): 23 dB
Battery type: 2 AAA
Estimated life: 150-200 hours
Comms capable: yes
Connector (if applicable): TP-120
Submersion/Waterproofing: Yes, IP67 for base headset
Compatible suspension methods: Neckband, headband, helmet mount
Earmuff (pads) upgrade available: 3M

>>63953546
I'd add a note about the walkers and put a list of "higher end" ear plugs like the surefires

Adding to >>63953546. I happened to see an anon recommend adding a diamond by the sordins and comtacs. I understood that merely in terms of ranking but didn't see any diamonds in existing infographics. I likely missed it. If you meant something else entirely or had a specific example, please send my way.

Also, anyone know much about the warden studio mod for leights? Appears to just replace the jack and permanently attach a mic. Not exactly sure of the use case there.

>>63953562
I was considering listing the walkers, but wasn't sure where we wanted to draw the line on the scope. Can add those no problem. Will do on the plugs.

I buy Condor cause I realize I'm just a larper on a budget. Their stuff is alright for hiking and weekend trips but idk about being battle tested.

>>63953562
Both will be base tier afaik.

Earplugs (Surefire, Decibullz, Walker, etc. Best will be custom from qualified audiologist)
Noise Reduction Rating (NRR): 29 dB (baseline)
Battery type: None
Estimated life: Disposable, replace when deformed or dirty.
Comms capable: no
Connector (if applicable): N/A
Submersion/Waterproofing: N/A
Compatible suspension methods: N/A
Earmuff (pads) upgrade available: N/A

Walker Razor Slim
Noise Reduction Rating (NRR): 23 dB
Battery type: 2 AAA
Estimated life: Estimated 100-150 hours
Comms capable: yes
Connector (if applicable): 3.5mm
Submersion/Waterproofing: None, water resistant.
Compatible suspension methods: headband, helmet mount
Earmuff (pads) upgrade available: Yes, Noisefighters

>>63953546
Don't forget amps
I would add comtacs and amps having integrated mic and a note on sound quality for all of them

>>63953748
Good point. Will add compatibility as best I can find. What did we want in terms of sound quality notes?

>>63953546
Why leave out rangeguards? They have a good bit of aftermarket support too. Those should be the poorfag go-to and frankly you don't need to upgrade unless you are using comms regulary in a group.

>>63953573
Diamonds only show up in a few infographics, they're high-recs above the starred recommended items. Example being the oneleaf thermal. To get a diamond the item has to completely mog the competition or at the very least be "the" go-to.

>>63953789
NTA, but directional ability and "gain" if you can find objective specs on that. The best active earpro is like super hearing.

I'll have a first draft ready soon. Bear with me as it's a busy week.
>>63954172
I'll see what I can find. I recall seeing a snr at least for the comtacs, so that may be what we're looking for.
>>63954104
Ahh I gotcha, thanks.
>>63954081
Lack of caffeine, I guess. Will include those.

>>63954105
Did you make that chest rig yourself out of a tarpaulin? Also, pretty much everything you have on there is completely and utterly retarded.
>3 primary mag pouches are tenspeeds, the collapsible elastic pouches which are impossilbe to re-index and are only really useful when mounted in spaces which are usually flat to give the option of temporarily holding a range of items such as flashbangs or mags
>HSGI Tacos randomly on the sides
>Glock knife
>random surplus canteen pouch on one side
>gigantic textbook sized map pouch
>Ferro Roll 1

>>63954346
Chill bro, he needs that map pouch to store his field copy of Algebra 2 by McGraw Hill.
>>63954219
This sounds like it's going to come together really well, I look forward to the draft.

>>63954346

It’s a matbock RRV I found on eBay. Mag pouches are just extras I had unused for the time being until I get what I really want. Canteen pouch holds a pair of binos, may eventually be something more dedicated.

The “map pouch”is a fairly slim BFG admin pouch. Getting much more than a write in the rain and a multi tool isn’t happening, it’s not that big.

Super-fast one-handed reindexing of empty mags is also not important to me.

>>63953546
Add OTTO NoizeBarrier Tac and add the surefire earplugs as they are the best earplugs on the market

>>63953626
Condor looks like shit and is old designs. It makes you look poor and gay.

backpacks
i need to buy a bag for traveling and it would be good to have one that pulls double duty.
what intersects carryon size and is good for going out?

>>63954598
It's... chadbloc.

>>63954546
>matbock RRV
No shit? that looks surprisingly shitty for a 350 dollar rig. probably why it was being resold on ebay.

>>63954105
Really, really terrible

Crye LV MBAV Where!? :(

>>63955086
tracer is doing a repro, try that. Or you could get one of the 900 dollar ones on ebay, if you like.

>>63951310
well thought out thanks

>>63954105
>when ur mom told you that you can't have RRV for your birthday

>>63954546
>matbock RRV
Why does it look like it's made out of Ikea shopping bag material?

>>63955086
>>63955094
What is the point of this thing?
I mean, if laser-cut molle has any purpose at all, it's to functionalize shit like that.
Is it all a LARP?

>>63955891
>What is the point of this thing?
Wear under a chest rig

>>63950058
I've been seeing never issued late contract SAPIs for under $200 a plate lately. Still very viable and a great deal. SAPIs are light and roughly Level III ICW.

>>63955895
What does that offer that a normal PC setup doesn't?
>>63955900
They're at least "RF2" and possibly better. What's usually called "Level III" is a lot worse.

>>63955902
>What does that offer that a normal PC setup doesn't?
The option to run armor or to not run armor. As opposed to running a PC and moving all his shit over to a chest rig, everything is loaded on a chest rig then worn over the armor. This isn't rocket science.

>>63955891
the clue is in the name, low vis. Its from a time period where the sflcs was still in use some use, so they wanted something less obvious than the full sized mbav carrier for guys who wouldn't be looking for fights. Its notable that the only integral pouches are a pair of radio sleeves, so CCTs or whatever the marine equivalent of that is; and any additional load carriage from the chest rig being an afterthought.

>>63955912
If you want to drop the plates, you can just replace them with foam inserts in your PC? Better and cheaper, isn't it?
> This isn't rocket science.
You're making it more complicated than it needs to be, though? Honestly, it seems like a gimped product. Some low-profile laser-cut molle would improve it, genuinely.

>>63955928
>If you want to drop the plates, you can just replace them with foam inserts in your PC? Better and cheaper, isn't it
Not really. If you're not needing armor, why bother with a PC with inserts when you can just wear the chest rig that goes over your carrier?

>You're making it more complicated than it needs to be, though?
No, you're overthinking it.

>it seems like a gimped product. Some low-profile laser-cut molle would improve it, genuinely.
If you insist.

>>63955900
You have a link handy? That's an excellent price. They're B4C-SiC cermet, very close to state-of-the-art in 1998. 4lb SAPI M, so about 4.8lb with required soft armor. I'd have concerns about M855A1 / BZ API (esp since ISAPI is explicitly required to stop any of the latter while SAPI is not) but for basic starter plates or "crew loaners" this price is unbeatable.
It is only challenged by the "expired" Hesco 3611Cs going around.

Just remember to do your tap, torque, and x-ray if you can.
>>63955902
They have a standoff capability against 7.62x54R LPS (2,400ft/s) that RF2 is not required to have. They otherwise have very similar reqs against M80, M855.

>>63956058
I saw them on catalystsurplus.com. I found that from something else they posted on tacswap.

>>63955902
>What does that offer that a normal PC setup doesn't?
Running a slick PC means you aren't tying specific LBE to armor. So you can setup different chest rigs, belt kits etc to work with the slick PC and grab whichever is most appropriate. Its also more convenient if you just need one or the other. Say going on a long ruck where you need your kit handy but pack your armor in the ruck and not actively wearing. Or the other way around where you want armor but need to conceal it under a jacket. All of these scenarios were things that SOF often did in GWOT.

are there still combat shirts being made in a pattern that isn't multicam?
seems like there just aren't many options besides that and maybe olive or tan

Are Parcil Distribution Respirators any good for SHTF, or should I just opt for an old Soviet Gas Mask? Their on sale right now on Amazon for around $50, so I definitely am thinking about it just to have on hand but idk much about gas masks so I'm asking here first.

>>63956478
>besides olive and tan
Why would you need anything else?

>>63957376
Cause he wants to be kitted in his favorite autistic camo.

>>63956742
>heavy duty and tactical design
>tactical design
Not sure I trust something that is advertising itself as tactical. Where are you located? country?

>>63956742
>Parcil Distribution Respirators
They're rebadged Aliexpress stuff for the most part.

>>63956062
Would appear they're out of stock for typical sizes. Unrelated to them, there's some regular SAPIs on ebay but they're beat to shit looking.
At minimum these are 20yo plates, so the surplus is gonna be pretty dry. ESAPIs are 1.5lb heavier and if REV. G or later cover all your bases except tungsten 5.56 better than M995 @ 3,350ft/s or any tungsten 7.62x51.
A pity the GEN III XSAPIs are a bust.

>>63954105
How you likin the glock knife?

>>63958793
Best poop knife in the world

>>63956478
You can buy airshit chinese costumes in a variety of different patterns from ATACS or Kryptek to tiger stripe and other meme shit like AOR1 or Rhodesian camo. Kids and manchildren wear them to play airsoft and they are durable enough to use running around in a field, but the garments themselves have no flame resistant properties and will 100% melt into your skin if you were to touch a red hot MG barrel or get showered with phos or just be near a fire.

>>63959015
Considering FRACUs are deployment only and even not mass issued outside of garrison; and gucci brands still sell plenty of non-FR clothing, it probably doesn't matter that much.

>>63955086
>>63955094
Or you could just get it when it restocks on optactical later this year for $350

>>63959169
I just hope they do not sell out fast though

No nvg thread up right now so I guess I'll ask here. Are there any knockoff helmets and dovetail mounts that are gtg? I've got a team wendy bump helmet and a wilcox24 that work great for me, but I've got a spare PVS14 that I'll lend to no-nod friends sometimes and its only got a skullcrusher cap. Nobody really likes the skullcrusher and it ruins some of the magic of nods, plus it's much harder to shoot with. Also considering getting a hardhead veterans bump helmet as my new primary helmet and using my team wendy one as the spare.

>>63957450
America, and yeah I was thinking of just buying an old Soviet Gas Mask or a police trade1.
>>63958287
Really???

final results are in

>>63958503
Oddly ive seen SAPIs with contract dates as late as 2013 before. Thats a full decade after they were supposedly replaced by ESAPI.

>>63959640
>America
Okay. There are cheaper alternatives that aren't "tactical" or you can something from kommando store like the MSA millennium or the m95. Are you just larping with it or intend to actually use it? If the latter, maybe the C50 even though it's 10x the cost (you can find it on sale)

>>63960145
AWS also semi regularly gets in batches of serviceable surplus M40s and M50s.

>>63960154
Oh good point, if I recall correctly they run around 100 dollars. Double what anon is willing to spend but why cheap out on something that will literally save your life.

>>63960169
They have large MCU-2's right now for $90. I would just do that and call it a day.

How the fuck do I get Propper to make their FR combat ensemble sets to be commercially available.

>>63960097
What was the text on the upper back of the plate? That's the best tell as to what type it is.

Is there anything good on Amazon I should buy during prime day sale for tactical gear? I dont really have anything other than a chest rig right now.

>>63961093
Typically even when they have legit shit it's way overpriced.

>>63961093
Headlamps, extra batteries, a knife, multitool, med items. There's lots of stuff.

>>63961171
>extra batteries
I quit buying batteries on there when I had a whole 80 pack that died after a few days. Some of them never even worked in the first place.

>>63961093
Maybe a couple water bottles, sleeping gear if you don't have any, tarps and paracord are always good to have extra. Knives can be fine but you're usually better off ordering from somewhere like bladehq. Cammenga compasses were on sale the other day not sure if they are right now. I got some water storage containers and mre's recently. You can also find reloading stuff which is frankly surprising.

>>63961023
They were medium SAPIs, the NSN and labeling matched. The contract date was oddly 2013. I didn't know they were made that late.

I had been putting off some purchases from trex. Got a flap chest rig, seems alright.

>>63961409
Never handled one in person but I really like their design.

>>63961431
Most important thing for me is .308 mag compatibility. But you can also shove it full of MP5 mags. Got their pouch combo, and the wallaby dangler dump pouch. I’m really liking the dangler mount dump pouch.

I'm gear queering my room, moved to the basement so kiddo could have a play room with all the princess shit and elderly mom can sew and be racist someplace.

>>63961503

>>63961503
>>63961507
Never getting laid

>>63961514
and?

>>63961514
"I'm gear queering my room, moved to the basement so kiddo could have a play room with all the princess shit."
Actually correcting she's not that bad lol.

>>63961507
Just going to casually show off your grow op like that?

>>63961536
It's legal and one plant because I'm learning

>>63961507
>pissjug next to bed
Jesus Christ...

>>63961542
Sir that's plant water with magnesium...

>>63961521
>no space for your legs while gaming
>insufficient space for mouse swipes
>furshit sticker
>basically unconfigured RGB peripherals
>single monitor
>one of the cheapest headsets ive seen in years
>itty bitty several generations old graphics card
>>63961507
>grow tent
>biker vest with a hundred random pins
>garage sale tier memorabilia everywhere

i don't even know what to say... have you at least showered some time this week?

>>63961594
I can't walk well anyway.
My mouse is 1900 DPI lol.
RGB goes to pulse red while gaming.
2080ti? Yeah.
Guilty after that. I'm actually kinda metro but mostly biker?

>>63961638
> 2080ti
based

>>63961254
Couple of possibilities. I'd think maybe either a super late batch made for a particular purpose, since they were phased out for ESAPIs in 05, or this was actually something else like an ISAPI.
Notably, another case of reddit Bullshitto has emerged. REV. E ISAPI, 3.5lb ICW, rated for M855A1, BZ API, M80, and LPS at full velocity. Would be about 4.3lb with soft armor.

>>63961655
Yo, he could make fun of me for the other room, it's a surplus store. Total horde of pouches and straps and god, what don't I have? A 1960s navy aviation rescue lifeboat with the dye shit and blinker and survival kit even in there somewhere.

>>63961638
>1900 DPI
so you twist to aim? i remember doing that shit when i was a teenager when i thought higher dpi was automatically better; i was using either 1800 or 2000 dpi before i realized i was retarded. iirc really high sensitivities like that will skip pixels even in fine movement.
400/800 dpi is where you'll actually have control with an X cm/360 swipe, whichever is comfortable. i stepped to 1200 before settling on 800 and i also use one of those huge xxl mousemats. i could go on and on about elbow/wrist aim, light mice, wired/wireless, glass mats, mouse skates and refresh rates but, i digress.. it's one of those things that activates my tism and you probably don't care that much.
>>63961976
the surplus stuff doesnt really bother me but the "plead the 2nd" plaque and band of brothers thing in the windowsill amuses me

>>63949852 (OP)
Is this the thread for slings?

Why don't more sling makers use tubular/thicker webbing like the Magpul MS1 and BFG Vickers?

The Edgar Sherman webbing and plastic feel so cheap I don't know why everyone raves about them. The only bonus is the pocket for tucking in extra sling.

>>63962036
What do you do with stupid gifts? BoB is the DVD set.

>>63962132
>Edgar Sherman
>I don't know why everyone raves about them
First I've ever heard of it.

>>63962132
Ferro concepts is the only sling you'll ever need.

Quick update on hearing protection graphic. Have not forgotten, just dealing with midweek. Stay tuned and if you have anything you want added, throw it here and I'll get to it when I can

>>63962244
Double dubs checked. The digits are with you.
>>63962148
Okay, so I'm thinking earpro, eyepro, gas masks, and slings for the great expansion of the aliexpress side #2 infograph.

>>63950044
I'm itching for a new gun and am torn - haven't bought anything of quality in about a decade.
I'm bouncing from AR-10 to a full sized handgun to something that'd work well with nods.
I have the gun buying itch and a gunz infographic could help me blow my load of cash

>>63962711
A /gq/ redo of the /pfg/ starters guide is definitely in the cards, except less /pfg/.
My current list:
1. Add prescription / other options mentioned by anons to the eyepro infographic.
2. Expand aliexpress side 2 with slings, eyepro, earpro, and gas masks.
3. holster infographic
4. Thermal monocular / binocular infographic
5. Shotgun infographic. I want to show the field on obscure arcana like Russian shotgun brakes and settle the magfed shotgun debate for good, while also keeping it practical. Yes, turkshit will be there. No, it will not pollute the practical section. It will be off to the side like the mag pouch guide's /pfg/ department.
6. Rifle infographic, generalist.
7. Pistol infographic, for daily duty.
8. Bolt-action / large-caliber rifle infographic, with an emphasis on uh... penetrating certain varieties of porcelain.
9. Digital NV /pfg/ infographic
10. Analog NV not-/pfg/ infographic
11. Russian "regional" guide like the Aliexpress / Indiamart infographics.
12. Japanese clooner guide.

If anyone wants to pick from the list, has suggestions, or I forgot something, be my guest.
Also for what it's worth, earpro infograph anon will be making the 30th "new style" infographic. I won't release any new ones until that one's done so he gets the uh... honor.

Hey LA-12 anon, that ebay dude is back with more glizzies. Some dumbass is still trying to sell his for $1,750. I bet if you offer him $450 for the $750 he'll bite.
For those unaware, this is a 200mW green laser (yeah, that's all it does) with high, low, and three pulse modes designed to dazzle people. The beam is too dispersed to be used as an aiming laser, but it's simultaneously lawsuit bait of the highest caliber (since it can and will cause permanent vision loss) and very useful if you larp about running a checkpoint in your boog fantasy.

>>63962754
I just took a cursory glance at this and everything you've put in this infographic is dumb as fuck. If you are poor, save up $300 and buy a Police surplus Glock in 9mm and boom, you never have to buy any other pistol ever again for the rest of your entire life. You're poor because you're a financially illiterate moron who buys new cheap garbage instead of older quality firearms.

>>63963021
>you've
I didn't make this one. It's /pfg/ vintage and aged accordingly.

>>63963106
>I didn’t make this shit useless infographic I just reposted it
arguably worse

>>63963876
Lol, because it needs redoing.

>>63961950
The NSN was 8470-01-497-8710 which is right for a medium sapi. Maybe it was a contract overrun idk. Sometimes you get shit like that where something is obsolete but there's long running contracts for it already signed.

>>63964271
Oh also, the plates were made by Ceradyne. And the contract number was definitely an army one. I guess it could have been a different federal department mooched off that still valid contract for cheap plates?

>>63962754
I appreciate the reply and infographic although I am wanting to develop more into the HK/Sig/? realm as opposed to the Ruger LC9 and Springfield XD Mod 2 Grip Zone® realm.
I could help develop #6 and #7 for you

>>63962754
/bag/ Anon here, I've been mostly away since the winter. You've done an awesome job with the guides. I can help with the generalist rifle and handgun guides when you get around to them. I can probably also contribute to the spicy bolt gun guide some too.

>>63964271
One possibility is that they were intended for foreign buyers and, as they're below Level IV, would not fall under ITAR - just EAR controls. SAPIs are relatively dated and easy to pierce versus REV G. or later ESAPI, so it's much less of a problem if they end up in bad hands.
>>63964333
Digits. I'll open with the shotgun infographic or spicy bolt first out of those.
>>63964384
Welcome back! Now to figure out the best recipes for piercing porcelain and other varieties.

>>63965079
>Welcome back! Now to figure out the best recipes for piercing porcelain and other varieties.
Whats the intent of this one? A list of good modern AP rounds that most Anons cant buy? Or a list of realistic solutions even if they aren't practical?

>>63959589
ive had good luck with a no name mount on aliexpress for like 50$, just get the metal ones not the "nylon" plastic bullshit, if you are willing to spend a little more something like a argus a4 will be way more stable and durable.

if your lending it out honestly something like a crye nightcap is gonna be way more comfortable than a helmet that probilcy isn't even really gonna fit them properly. Emmerson also makes a nock off nightcap that from my experience is basically just as good minus the foam behind the mount. but that is easy to replace so.

>>63965286
Realistic solutions. It is exceedingly difficult to obtain AP rounds beyond 7.62 Swiss P AP, which means reliable plate-busters are half-out, so the remaining solution is brute force and creative reloading of the penetrators you can get into magnum calibers.
I'll still include the unobtanium stuff in a side section so anons have a capability reference for if and when the situation changes. I would think M1158 reloaded into .300 Weatherby would be quite something, but we'll have to settle for M2AP and M993 on a good day.

>>63967383
Sounds good. I don't know if anyone has done load development yet but the new NAS3 cases open up potential for extra spicy rounds.

>>63967389
Agreed. They were a hot topic a few threads back when we were shooting the shit over 9lb Predator steel plates. In theory NAS3 enables M193 out of a 20" as fast as 3,600ft/s. This means even beefed up RF1 .07 steel would be no match. NAS3 M995 would be... something, especially since even pre-REV. G ESAPIs are not rated for M995 at all. REV. G's v0 is 3,350ft/s, so NAS3 M995 would easily be in v50 range at least.
I'd very much like to see this technology applied to magnum calibers.

Rotating in a couple of the rarer infographics in case some anons haven't seen these.

This is not a buyers guide, just a capabilities reference.

>>63967527
based

And the "milsurp" plates supplement to the /bag/ guide. I decided to put the USMC LITE plate in the used plates infographic from last thread, since it's somewhat niche and people don't have its capabilities squared down yet like SAPI / ESAPI / XSAPI, and even the rarer SAPI family members like ECSAPI and ISAPI.

>>63967541
JC, the relationship between signal jammers and radios is ultimately identical to the relationship between laser dazzlers and LAMs. Jammers and dazzlers are the evil dickhead stepbrothers to honest products, made by the MJ-12 bureaucracy to respectively ruin your communications and your eyeballs.

One more for the night, the high-frequency radio guide. This part of the radio spectrum is something I'm surprised /k/ doesn't use more often, especially the "freeband."

>>63967682
LMJ fucked it for everyone else.

>>63967427
Right. M995 is going to be hard to get but hey, with a 308 NAS3 case you could probably recreate 6.8x51 velocities but with M80A1 or M2AP bullets. That has to be worth something. I did recently do some testing of my own and found Liberty 60gr 10mm does reliably pen IIIa at normal handgun ranges.

>>63967791
NAS3 M80A1 would very closely replicate XM1186 GP. Definitely a solid contender against RF2 plates and SRTs, but not a Level IV / RF3 puncher. In theory, M2AP loaded to 3,500ft/s (.300WBY) can pierce usual Level IV (defined as white label Chinese up to budget models like the 4SUS4, 1155, Hesco 4400-4403), but will drop the ball against heavily-overbuilt plates like the Protech 2230 and Adept Colossus. Tungsten needs to be put on the table at some point.
The math for piercing armor is that you should assume the plate is performing at its best. Contra selecting armor, where you should assume worst case.
Liberty's ultralight pistol ammo does give aramid soft armor a run for its money, but can be stopped by some PE panels.

>>63967856
ok the system is being a fag and wont let me post a real reply because "it thinks its spam" I have no idea why

BUTTPACK CONTENTS 24 HRS
WATERPROOF RAINWEAR/PONCHO (WEATHER APPLICABLE) ATTACHED W/ CORDAGE UNDER PACK
ONE MRE, COMPLETE OR STRIPPED
SNACKS (PYP)
ONE / TWO PAIR(S) OF SOCKS
BEANIE (WEATHER APPLICABLE)
HYGIENE WIPES
CAMOUFLAGE FACE PAINT
WEAPON CLEANING KIT (OIL, BORESNAKE, RAG, BRUSH, DENTAL PICK)
FIRE STARTING TOOLS
WATER PURIFICATION TABLETS
ANTI-DIARRHEAL TABLETS
LIFESTRAW FILTER
CANTEEN CUP FOR BOILING WATER
PROPANE/WOOD STOVE
BUG SPRAY

What am I missing?

>>63968098
For 24hrs, you can cut that way down. With all that shit bundled in the bag, your ass will be heavy. Some of it makes no sense to me as to why its sitting in the buttpack and not elsewhere. Do you not have a water bladder backpack with applicable storage?
Poncho/tarp
MRE
Socks
Cleaning kit (if can't be carried elsewhere or in gun)
Meds (meh)
Water tabs/straw, sure if contained/bagged
Canteen cup (sure I guess. Better yet stuff socks & meds in here)
>Fire Gear
Should always be carried on your person and really it only needs to be 1-2 lighters. Ferro rod if you're paranoid,

>>63967856
Alright imma try again. tungsten isn't a realistic option. You can get some M993 and M995 that fell off a truck from specialty ammo dealers and even occasionally SLAP. But its far too few and too expensive to be more than a novelty. I think NAS3 can make 5.56 viable against RF1 and RF2 plates. But for RF3 you'll have to rely on kinetic overmatch from magnum rounds. Maybe a spicier version of Buffman's 300winchad, 300wm with M2AP could work. But a proper magnum like 338lm is more reliable.

>>63969364
RF1 and RF2 depend on the armor composition. Steel (RF1 / RF2) will fold easily to NAS3 M193 and even varmint projectiles. PE will fold easily to NAS3 M855. NAS3 M855A1 will be needed to clear the full field of steel, PE, and ceramics, although it will struggle with the new-old breed of M61-rated III++ like the Hesco 3814 and Highcom 3S9M. It will not clear good RF3 / Level IV.
I think M80A1 / M2AP reloaded hot into .300WM are the starting point, but lack headroom. M2AP should really be going over 3,500ft/s to be consistent here against typical Level IV.
One issue is that as soon as a "solution" is widely adopted by various actors, plates will be developed to beat it.

>>63969744
>RF1 and RF2 depend on the armor composition.
We wont know until the CPL is updated but I wonder how many pure PE or steel plates will actually be rated under 07. PE should meet RF1 still but I think steel plates would have trouble in the weight department.
>PE will fold easily to NAS3 M855.
Pure PE should fold to regular M855
>NAS3 M855A1 will be needed to clear the full field of steel, PE, and ceramics,
I think a handloaded M855A1 NAS3 should be a good general RF1/2 killer for all but the best ++ plates like you said. Hopefully handloading autists will develop some good loads sooner or later.
>One issue is that as soon as a "solution" is widely adopted by various actors, plates will be developed to beat it.
For both NIJ and the military, threats are going to be considered by whats likely not by whats possible. NIJ still considers M2AP the level IV threat even though its obsolete in every way because its by far the most common AP rifle round in the US. Continued.

>>63970033
...You've always been able to get Swiss P or sus military tungsten rounds if you are willing to pay out the ass. But justifiably, they don't consider that a realistic threat for cops. The Army is a bit different, current ESAPI does take a lot of modern Russian threats into account that in reality it turns out they never made enough of to issue to their troops. But I dont think the Army is going to care if autistic civilians start loading old hardened steel bullets in ultra spicy handloads to defeat commercial plates.

All that being said, I think we are in agreement on some good places to start. Use M855A1 and M80A1 bullets when possible, keep up to date on how NAS3 load development evolves. The old rule of thumb about speed beating steel and steel beating PE still holds true.

The real AP question, though this veers into dangerous territory, is how those home-built/handloaded rounds with tungsten "fishing weights" perform.

Testing... Likely a lot to be added to this one, but it's a start. If there's anything info-wise (giving myself an out here for formatting) let me know. If we want diamonds next to some of these, can do.

>>63970033
(1/2)
>I wonder how many pure PE or steel plates will actually be rated under 07
We're gonna see a lot of .06 holdouts with the steel armor crowd. RF1 calls for 3,250ft/s, which is beyond even some 9lb steel plates like those from Predator. You will need to use harder, likely more brittle "alloys" (AR650, AR680, or Tacscorp's AR700) or up the thickness. NAS3 M193 will easily get you past that, so steel's plainly screwed unless you're in an area stuck in 1998 and everybody's running M855 for no reason.
>PE should meet RF1 still
Easier than the NIJ 0101.06 test, since multi-hit against M80 is reduced from six to three and M193 is not a problem for PE. 7.62x39 MSC is only a problem for very old (think 0101.03 era, pre-2000) PE plates.
>steel plates would have trouble in the weight department
We're gonna see 10lb plates with spall coating.

>Pure PE should fold to regular M855
Of course, but you also need to account for various engagement distances and the new breed of "enhanced PE" M855-rated plates. Combat Systems RF2 (4lb) and the rumored LTC 28855 (<4lb).
>Hopefully handloading autists will develop some good loads sooner or later
Whatever happened to the dagny dagger?
>For both NIJ and the military, threats are going to be considered by whats likely not by whats possible
There's a philosophical split between conventional military and SOCOM. The former selected M2AP for the ESAPI, and the NIJ for IV too, because it proxies exceptionally well for the vast majority of common threats. If you can stop M2AP @ 2,880ft/s you can stop just about any steel core 7.62x51 or 7.62x54. SOCOM opts for a less overkill approach (B-32 API).
>NIJ still considers M2AP the level IV threat even though its obsolete in every way
For proxy reasons. If you can stop M2AP you can stop anything CONUS that would be a realistic threat for a SWAT officer. Tungsten really only comes up OCONUS, but murphy's law can be a bitch here n' there.

>>63971371
> Combat Systems RF2 (4lb) and the rumored LTC 28855 (<4lb).
Not this shit again.
There's zero proof that those exist or perform as retards on R*ddit claim. Forget certs, there aren't even any test reports or videos.

>>63970050
>You've always been able to get Swiss P or sus military tungsten rounds if you are willing to pay out the ass
Of course, but "controls" are getting better on everything and it's much harder to get the good stuff. Know anyone with M1158 or the larger M1154? How about the .338 Norma mini-Raufoss, M1214?
Armor is something that has improved dramatically since the 90s, so the old estimates of ~150 meters against IV for M993 and ~350 meters for 7.62 Swiss P AP are not as accurate as they were in 1998, per an old RUAG paper. Of course, this depends on the plate.
>But justifiably, they don't consider that a realistic threat for cops
DocGKR, the old "cop equivalent to Buffman" would differ. Realistically if Waco happened again there would be M993 involved. The FBI rolls standalone XSAPIs (LTC 28601) for a reason. Of course tungsten shit will never show up in day to day affairs, but you never know the day it will.
>The Army is a bit different, current ESAPI does take a lot of modern Russian threats into account
Not quite. 7N1 is the most recent addition to the threat matrix and it's hardly a modern Russian round. ESAPI REV. G-J can likely proxy no problem against 7N24 / 7N24M given their M995 @ 3,350ft/s capability, but nothing more. ESAPI's M2AP / M995 combination just proxies well for all steel-core Russian threats aside from the heavy shit like 9.3 7N33 and 8.6x70 PFO BP, although I'd be a touch leery with 7.62x54 7N26. The new GEN III ESAPIs are actually weaker than the old G-J. Higher BFD tolerance (58mm) to save weight, among other things.
>in reality it turns out they never made enough of to issue to their troops
Might be thinking of XSAPI there, 3x M995 @ 3,350ft/s or 3x M993 @ 3,050ft/s. Does not proxy well for the hardest Russian threats at all. 7N37 was likely purpose-designed to kill XSAPIs.
>Autistic civs
There is enough of a concern that plates such as the Highcom 4SAS12 and Protech 2230 defeat M2AP at much higher velocities. 2230 is ~3,500ft/s.

>>63971413
Correct. I cannot prove to you that they perform as reddit shills are claiming. You cannot prove to me that they definitively suck. Because we're at an impasse, but are looking to gain ways to defeat them, we should err on the side of caution and assume they work as advertised within the limits of what's feasible. Ergo, NAS3 M855, 20" barrel. I doubt either of them have a lot of headroom over RF2 M855 velocity.
Also, we've discussed the Combat Systems plate before and it's totally unremarkable. Gets mogged by the Hesco 3810 aside from being... all-PE. Wowzers.

>>63970050
3/2 I can't count.
>Use M855A1 and M80A1 bullets when possible
M80A1 out of .300wby is the golden ticket for now unless M2AP can be sourced.
>The old rule of thumb about speed beating steel and steel beating PE still holds true
Indeed. The enhanced-PE plates won't be a serious concern until probably 2030 when .07 is firmly entrenched. None of them have any reported ability to defeat M855A1, so even if asshats in 2030 are dicking around with 2lb RF2 plates it makes no difference. M855A1, M80A1, fast as you can make them go without compromising other factors.

>>63970288
APAnon? Is that you? This topic tends to get people vanned, but all I'll say is that the last guy had trouble getting these to not yaw mid-flight. Penetrator geometry. L/D ratio, kinetic energy density, make sure it hits straight and not at an angle. Also err on the side of caution and go with a bigger caliber than you think you'll need. It is not hard to incrementally reinforce plates, and standoff distance is your enemy.
>>63971324
Your formatting is fine, this is simple but gets straight to the point and doesn't overcomplicate things. All it needs really are prices. Great work!

>>63971416
>Know anyone with M1158 or the larger M1154? How about the .338 Norma mini-Raufoss, M1214?
That's my point. Its not realistic or practical. The guide should reflect not what is possible, but what is realistic for Anons to get.
>DocGKR, the old "cop equivalent to Buffman"
That's underselling. He isn't the cop equivalent. He's the NAVSEA equivalent. Doc works/worked for Seals. But SOCOM has a different threat profile than cops or prepared Anons.
>Might be thinking of XSAPI there,
No I meant the Russians never made enough of that special tungsten ammo to matter. Reports from Ukraine indicate it doesn't exist in meaningful numbers. US supplied ESAPIs and commercial level IVs seem to be sufficient.
>>63971371
>For proxy reasons.
Sure, proxy, M2AP covers a lot of high power hunting cartridges etc, but its still the most common AP round. They made so much of that shit and surplused it, its going to be the case for a long time to come. At least until someone comes up with a way to DIY AP rounds reliably.

Good discussion guys.

>>63971324
The Peltor rangeguards have a 3.5mm jack like the Walkers and HLs have. All are technically Comms compatible if you have a speaker mic with an aux out. I know the Moto speaker mic for the XTS2500 and Kenwood speaker mics for the professional radios all have that and it works well enough.

>>63971636
>That's my point. Its not realistic or practical.
Agreed. Moreso, there are no known plates rated to defeat M1158. The Colossus could maybe swing it, but I'd want to review Buffman's upcoming 7N37 / SmkH re-test. M1154 is right out, M1214 is probably unstoppable within ~500 meters. There's a bullshitto "NGSAPI" (6.5lb, 3x M1158 @ whatever velocity) but if it exists it never left the prototype stage, like the LSAPI.
>The guide should reflect not what is possible, but what is realistic for Anons to get.
And that means steel-core penetrators reloaded into the biggest, baddest magnum calibers.
>But SOCOM has a different threat profile than cops or prepared Anons.
Ironically it's SOCOM that has the lower ratings these days. BZ API / M855A1 for the less-than-overt plates, B-32 API for the overt tactical standalones. They have a lineup of standalone XSAPIs allegedly but the wrap is very tight on those.
>Doc works/worked for Seals
Indeed, he's extremely well-qualified. Huge advocate of running at the very least M855A1 / M80A1 protection if near a military base, and then having protection against modern tungsten AP at least in reserve. I have a feeling he'd like the Adept Colossus a lot if it were NIJ certified and the company didn't have so many shenanigans.
>No I meant the Russians never made enough of that special tungsten ammo to matter
It depends on the era in question. 7N37's debut was in 2014 during the little green men episodes, where it easily beat ass because the state of Ukrainian armor was poor at the time. However, Russia cannot in any way produce meaningful amounts of tungsten small arms ammo now in a quasi-total war environment, so while they have even better penetrators (7N37M, 7N51), they're irrelevant.
>Reports from Ukraine indicate it doesn't exist in meaningful numbers
It's also kind of a lost cause. Ukraine got suckered by that "Hyperion" company that promised 30-hit B-32 API / 2-hit 7N37 plates and delivered nothing around 2016.

>>63971636
>US supplied ESAPIs and commercial level IVs seem to be sufficient
ESAPI REV. G-J are tanks. J is probably sufficient for anything CONUS / OCONUS aside from edge scenarios. I think in the event of a shootout with China a plate rated to defeat .338LM APs wholesale would be nice, but we need backer / strike face technology to improve dramatically and shit's been stagnant for fifteen years.
I think they're making a mistake reducing protection to try and appease the VTP weight targets. Dropping a pound, switching to swimmer cut, and raising BFD to 58mm while also thinning the plates out is a recipe for mediocrity, especially when the GEN III XSAPIs are struggling to even meet targets. I think deducting weight from other equipment, such as conceding you're not piercing Chinese level IV with the M7's XM1186, and then raising the protection level is the better route. At least M1158 or XM1184.
>M2AP covers a lot of high power hunting cartridges etc
And it's flexible given the predominance of .30 caliber cartridges. M2AP at 2,910, 3,200, 3,500 can cover a variety of other threats. 3,500ft/s means you're clear against any of the steel-core .300WM APs, but might have trouble still with the WC stuff unless your strike face is up for it.
>its going to be the case for a long time to come
Which is the crux of that part of the guide.
>At least until someone comes up with a way to DIY AP rounds reliably
There's been like 3-4 APAnons at this point with their own efforts, they tend to stop posting after a little while.
A good discussion indeed.

>he finally started making actual somewhat useful infographics after I shamed him for not makingan IFAK one.
>they're still shit with terrible recommendations
What the fuck happened to these threads? People don't even post bathroom selfies with their faces OPSECd out anymore, let alone actual pictures of you outside with your gear. We barely even get layout pics anymore. You guys are lame.

>>63971712
>There's been like 3-4 APAnons at this point with their own efforts, they tend to stop posting after a little while.
Making consistent bullets, especially homogeneous ones is very difficult. Mass produced AP rounds with any degree of accuracy is an engineering marvel.
>a recipe for mediocrity
I like that, well put Anon. I have a lot of problems with the direction US body armor has taken. the IOTV gen4, MSV and USMC PC are the wrong direction. Its taking lessons from high speed guys in GWOT when we should be remembering how frag, regardless of source, are always the biggest casualty generators in war. Large soft armor coverage should be emphasized. There's a mountain of studies from WW2 through to today to back that up. And I think on the civvie side people over emphasize light PCs when they should look at full cut carriers. But that's another discussion.
>>63971686
>no known plates rated to defeat M1158.
SmKH is probably the best analog. The penetrator is obviously an obsolete design but its still WC and 8mm is fucking hot.
>And that means steel-core penetrators reloaded into the biggest, baddest magnum calibers.
Absolutely. I think the focus should be on loading M855A1, M80A1 and M2AP as hot as possible. Those are the realistic options.
>It depends on the era in question.
The takeaway here is WC is a strategic resource so whenever the shit hits the fan, that shit dries up fast cause there are better uses for that limited resource than bullets. Also, most steel penetrators are using older grades of hardened tool steel. Steel has come a long way in the last century. I'm curious how well some newer PM steels would perform. It would be more expensive but you wouldn't be limited by availability like with wolfram.

>>63971653
>>63971460
Thanks, I'll have an updated draft with changes incorporated a bit later.

>>63971788
>But that's another discussion.
Digits, and I agree. I tried to push that side a little with some of the new infographics.
I think a lot of the blame has to do with Ceradyne's delamination issue in 2013. They lost the SOCOM contracts, SOCOM went to LTC, plate technology on that side basically went back 5-10 years. Ceradyne went bust. That is fundamentally why hard armor has stagnated. Soft armor is because Honeywell isn't making any major moves, at least white-side.
The best armor manufacturer is now Tencate and they're having trouble making an XSAPI that weighs under 5.5lb and has a maximum BFD of 58mm against M993 @ 3,050ft/s.
If Tencate has trouble with that, I think there's more than just brain drain as to why Hesco isn't touching their 4520 (5.4lb M993 <44mm BFD ICW IIIA) with a ten foot pole and pretends it didn't exist eleven years ago.
>high speed guys in GWOT
And not to get pedantic, but it's interesting how SOCOM had multi-hit Level IV in 2004 and is currently running lighter, but not too much lighter B-32 API plates that have inferior protection. The very lightest a GEN-6 TSA can be is about 4lb flat for a swimmer medium, and that's pushing it. Only thing it gains over a six year old VS-PBZSA is M61 / B-32 API / M80A1 defeat. With Ceradyne gone we're down a lot of special tech that could be useful for making hard armor lighter and permitting more "weight-bulk budget" for wider-coverage soft armor.
>Large soft armor coverage should be emphasized
Absolutely, and 6000-series Spectra Shield may be the ticket to expanding on that.
>SmKH is probably the best analog.
Best analog in terms of design is 7.62x51 DM151, SmKH is a large-core WHA design that needs different parameters.
>I'm curious how well some newer PM steels would perform
Could you expand on that? I'd like to see if there's alternatives to WC too.

>>63971850
>I tried to push that side a little with some of the new infographics.
Fuck yeah. Anons need to hear of out lord and savior BALCS
>And not to get pedantic,
That might be explained by changing priorities. Its not like the engineers at ceradyne just disappeared. They went to work for someone else.
>Best analog
I meant in terms of availability. SmKH is expensive but can be bought by bougie ammo dealers and fudds at gun shows.
>Could you expand on that?
Yeah so something I've noticed in the gun world is a lot of the steels used are older grades that in a broader context are considered low end or mid grade at best. A good example is barrel steel. Everyone is using 4140 or 4150 and if its stainless its 415. These grades are all over 50 years old and nothing special. Steel has had multiple major generations in tech since then. Ask any knife autist and they'll tell you about it. Tool steels happen to make good barrels, knives and armor penetrators so there's a lot of overlap there. PM is powder metallurgy and describes a process of steel smelting that's much more consistent and cleaner than previous processes. There's a lot of very high end steels that use the process, some guys call them super steels. There's some pretty kickass PM tool steels like Z-Tuff and CPM 3V. I don't know of any testing with those as penetrators. AFAIK most steel penetrators are S7 which isn't bad but it's very old.

>>63971850
Oh yeah, on that guide I would note the LBT 6094 supports custom soft armor that extends beyond the plates and in the cummerbund. LBT sells it but you can probably get someone else to make it. Defense Mechanisms makes the APOC which is a well regarded modern BLACS carrier. On the surplus market, Eagle CIRAS are very affordable and quality BALCS carrier with a quick release. And Velocity LPAC/LPAAC use concealment cut soft armor and EOD Fish had a very positive review of the platform. They are popular with cops and swat.

>>63971912
>That might be explained by changing priorities.
Certainly, but with Ceradyne's loss we're out boron-enriched boron carbide and certain types of crack arresting layers, namely IMP/ACT. They were pushing 4.2lb M2AP-stoppers in 2003 that were good for ten hits of 5.56 M995, namely the MH3 CQB and MH3 HAP. With soft armor, about 5lb flat. Mogs the piss out of anything in LTC's white-side roster, and I'm not even touching the real hot Ceradynes like the 96034 and the zylon freakshow models.
>Its not like the engineers at ceradyne just disappeared.
But to where? My best guess is LTC. I've mentioned this before, but there is a ten year blackout on LTC's latest plates. 28601, 28595, 28791, are all old models even though they're presented as flagships by vendors - they're not even allowed to sell the 28595. Hoplite and Apex have to flip the 2013-vintage 28590 like it's state-of-the-art.
That's why I'm giving the 28855 a lot of flexibility. We don't know LTC past about 2014, besides their budget and frankly mid-range plates.
>SmKH is expensive but can be bought by bougie ammo dealers and fudds at gun shows.
And it's also extremely capable. Beat the Colossus even in Buff's first test, although in the upcoming retest it allegedly handled SmKH and 7N37 fresh. Given the higher BFD in the 2024 test report my guess is that the Colossus changed specs and traded some backer for a thicker strike face. Still no NIJ cert, which is frustrating given if it were certified it would be the best Level IV on the market, no contest. Oneleaf of armor.
>There's some pretty kickass PM tool steels like Z-Tuff and CPM 3V
Very interesting. I wouldn't be surprised if the Russians were looking into some of these to augment 7N26 since their tungsten penetrators, for various reasons, are all unobtainable.

>>63971922
All very good, I'll update it tomorrow, thanks!
This is obviously extreme, but I do like at least on paper some of the setups peddled by the Chinese in pic related. There is a time and a place for high-coverage armor setups even beyond BALCS.

And because I posted side 2 of the aliexpress guide, I am bound to post side 1. Sorry!

>>63971943
>Certainly,
Real talk, how much of this is lost art/patents and how much is the big names just wont sell this shit to normies like us? We know LTC and Hesco have fedboi plates they dont advertise.
>Still no NIJ cert
Thats the frustrating thing with Adept. They claim a lot but wont subject themselves to outside validation beyond youtube. Which, all respect to Matt but a youtuber is not an NIJ lab. We still dont have the 07 CPL yet so maybe they will be certified. But if their colossus changed performance, that tells me they are still on their same sus shit making ringer plates for review.
>I wouldn't be surprised if the Russians were looking into some of these to augment 7N26 since their tungsten penetrators, for various reasons, are all unobtainable.
Perhaps. This shit is expensive and AFAIK Russia doesnt have any forges making steels like these. Nothing stopping them from sanction busting and smuggling Z-Tuff across the border from Zapp (Germany) or Elmax from Bohler (Sweden). But I doubt it would be in amounts needed to mass issue the stuff.
>>63971959
Cool. I like BALCS because its the closest thing we have to an industry standard for a full cut carrier. Its not necessarily the best but it has some degree of adoption which is nice. You can source panels from more than one place and there's a nice selection of carrier that support it. LPAC/LPAAC and the First Spear Crime Suppression Vest use concealment cut which I guess is the next closest to a standard.

>>63972010
Some of it is lost technology, and also the industry being much more closed-off nowadays than twenty years ago. Ceradyne was not the only company with serious shit behind closed doors. Tencate had flexible "Ceraflex" plates like the PL-7300 rated to defeat M995 / M993 as early as 2003. ICW IIIA, around the weight of REV. A XSAPI. Allegedly saw use with Blackwater in the mid-00s. Not to mention LIBA, which while flawed was refined over time and is now a much more competent product. I'd be willing to bet they didn't stop innovating on Ceraflex either.
Point three with Tencate. Their strongest plate is the CX-950 IC, which is about 9lb and needs soft armor. Rated for 7.62x51 Swiss P AP per PM-12, three times. Sounds damn heavy, but the way Tencate's Multi-Light lineup works (CS - low, CX - mid, CXP - high-end) that's a mid-range plate. Where's the CXP-950?
Point is, every OEM except RMA and maybe Highcom has a secret black-side catalog. I'd reckon LTC has improved on the 28601 three times over since it won the FBI XSAPI contract a decade ago.
Hesco's lineup is probably a lot diceier. As the other armor dude mentioned, they really should be using their black-side lineup to shore up their mixed white-side lineup. 4801 is super meh, the 3801 / 3811 need proving, and the 3814 needs to lose some weight. The 3885 would be useful.
>They claim a lot but wont subject themselves to outside validation beyond youtube
There are test reports like pic related, December 2024 4x Swiss P AP. Can Adept or whoever their OEM is make a Swiss P AP stopping plate? Sure. My concern is whether they can do quality control. Zero NIJ certs and Jake's had since 2016 to get some. Plenty of plates went to youtubers.
>But if their colossus changed performance
Maybe, or to give them the benefit of the doubt, they revised the Colossus in anticipation of .07 so they wouldn't have to certify it twice. Then again, you don't know about ringers unless you shoot your own with Swiss P AP.

hesco m210, yeah or nah?

>>63972088
BZ API and M855A1 in a 5lb package for $570 a set. No M80 protection, it doesn't have the backer for .308 / 7.62x54 threats at all. Maybe look at the LTC 19513 instead unless you need a thinner plate or $766 a set from Hoplite spikes the budget. It adds M80, keeps M855A1, is only slightly heavier, and loses BZ API. It's a full fledged "III+" versus the M210 - which will get shwacked by common hunting rifle calibers.

In short, the M210 is a good SRT. It is not a good generalist plate for all situations. SRTs are situational plates.

>>63972099
i can kinda skip the 308 threats, dont think it would be something common in my area (urbanites) and yeah really do like the thinner plates and any type of multicurve just for the comfort. I have 7lb plates now and just gets to be too much after a couple of hours, figure dropping 2-3lb a plate will make a major difference, open to any suggestions, trying to keep the budget for plates around 1k~ max

>>63972116
The important bit here is weight, and also that you're in an urban situation. Urban means M855 (green tip ARPs), so even at lower velocities you have to cast PE plates out. The enhanced PE plates are irrelevant because we need this shit to work and they're not proven yet. They also blow the budget. M193 is the other half of the basic 5.56 stick, and M855A1 is also a problem. We can probably ignore BZ API since that's not a common CONUS threat.
The LTC 19513 is triple curve and 5.4lb, it's much thicker than the M210 at 1.1". M210 covers all your bases but will lose to .308 threats. Alternative option is the D220, which adds .308 back but loses M855A1. Much thinner.
Maybe also look at the "expired" Hesco 3611Cs going on liquidation for super cheap - $330 a pair. Lighter than the M210 or 19513, but you lose M855A1 completely and can only handle M80, M193, M855.
I also think something's fishy with the liquidation sale, but only because I'm jaded by the recent 4SUS4 debacle. With armor there are deals that are too good. You be the judge. I wouldn't do milsurp plates given your priority on thinness unless you get a hell of a deal on 28595s / 28791s.
Last option is Militech. Their SiC RF2 is easily competitive with the 19513 but comes with the caveat of being a Chinese plate.

>>63972144
appreciate it

>>63972170
No problem. Keep in mind that if you can wait until 0101.07 releases, there's probably some models waiting in the wings. I cannot guarantee when the .07 CPL will actually drop.

>>63954636
psa absolutely not. your rifle doesnt need to be fancy but it needs to work.

Any suggestions on closed flap molle pouches for G3 mags?

>>63971968
Which is better Shekkin Gears or Pew Tactical?

I have a Ferro FCPC v5 with Blackbeard plates, but no pouches etc and it's pretty tempting to get Chinesium.

>>63972786
Shekkin IMO, they seem to take pride in their brand.

>>63972786
Why the fuck would you buy a chink airsoft copy of a Ferro Concepts product? Why the fuck are you buying a fucking flashbang back panel? Post all the flashbangs you own and use.

>>63972876
The flashbang pouches are for 5.56 magazines, sped.

>>63972786
You're overpaying on many of those pouches. Hit up Aliexpress.

>>63973529
ew fuck off

>>63973556
It's... the same stuff.

>>63950044
>spend 200 dollars on a pair of glasses

>>63973617
>>>63973573
Or 15

>>63973617
>Or fifteen bucks

Any cool ideas for making use of one of these, besides storing a canteen? Carrying water isn't an issue and it's going to be accompanying a SAW/GP pouch and an IFAK/admin pouch

I bought a bunch of Condor stuff on their independence sale but now I'm sketched out by the post office skipping over my town multiple times between scans. I'm half expecting my shit to be half stolen or possibly never reaching my address now.
>Looked at Condor's site & stated "lol no refunds on sale items", though didn't specify packages being lost in transit

>>63973767
The seller has a contract with the shipper to get the items to you as described. If the shipper fucks up the seller needs to reimburse you and then seek reimbursement themselves from the post office. Not the same thing as a refund.

>>63971922
And here ya go. Updated vest guide, version... 1.03.

>>63973755
add pouches as needed to carry gear
dont add unnecessary gear to make use of pouches

>>63973755
Probably binoculars or gloves, those pouches on the sides are totally useless though only room for a condom or a fun size snickers.

>>63973826
Something Ive been seeing a lot of on ebay and surplus sites lately are Air Warrior FBAVs, i.e. chopper pilot vests. No idea if they're any good, but they're designed to integrate with a specific chest rig so the vest itself has zero provisions to mount any pouches; meaning they're potentially a cheaper option for people looking for slick BALCS carriers. Idk though, they might be shit if they're being surplussed in unissued condition

>>63973826
Looking good Anon
>>63973926
The air warrior vests take a proprietary cut of soft armor but if you get one with the armor included its a cheap way to get a quality slick rig you can easily wear LBE over.

>>63973926
Interesting, or could very well have just been replaced and they don't want to float the extra inventory. Anyone got experience with these?

Unrelated, here's the updated Aliexpress side 2.

Anyone here use thermal binos? Was looking at a pulsar setup.

>>63972965
>airsoft playing faggot
>and a poorfag
>desperately wants Ferro drip but can only afford temu knock-offs
>”The flashbang pouches are for 5.56 magazines I can’t reach, sped”
Post your squad of airsofters who will get the mags off your back for you during ‘“le boog”

>>63974502
>The temu knockoffs are just-as-good

>>63974495
Pulsar is having issues at the moment, it would seem. Buy carefully. RMAs might be difficult to obtain.

>>63974533
Like can't pay bills issues or did they get caught up in something?

>>63974555
>can't pay bills
Probably this, but I don't know for sure. Customer service is abysmal, when it exists. Products are being heavily discounted. Aero-tier stuff.

>>63974676
NTA, but those are all clear signs they aren't making ends meet. The thermal market isn't big enough. Too many companies, not enough consumers to go around. Pulsar has very little to offer over AGM, Oneleaf, Iray / RIX, and they fail to educate people as to why ATN, the RMA of thermals, is an inferior product.
You aren't the only guy saying this. I'll keep Pulsar to a minimum on the monocular / binocular thermal infographic.

>>63950295
Get the ferro concepts or onward research dangler instead. They are wide and short so they won’t slap you in he dick

Quick draft version of the thermal mono & bino infographic.

Mid and low cut ach/mich helmets look cooler than high cuts.

>>63974502
Ass-blasted by pouches?
Many such cases.

>>63975553
iray?

>>63976230
Agreed, high cuts are dorky as hell

>>63976239
They look normal with ear pro.

>>63976247
I stand by what I said; I'd take a full ACH any day over a high-cut helmet

>>63976239
>mogged by PASGT helmet

*excuse my copy of BFC, all I had to prop it up with

>>63976275
>t. someone who doesn’t have to wear electronic earpro under his helmet for hours

High cuts are great

>>63976377
Can wear Sordins under an ACH no problem..

>TFW no all-in-one kevlar + ear pro + headset + removeable ballistic visor + modular mouth piece for either a gas mask or turret gunner facial protection
please respond DOD

>>63976239
Kek

>>63976427
That's what I use, but I think I need to size up to xl. It's a bit tight.

>>63976436
Thats essentially what the full ops core suite is, minus the gas mask. What I don't get is why there aren't IIIA cases for headsets, like people have spent the last decade splitting hairs over high cut for easy earpro use or low cut for frag protection; why not both? Shit like peltor sportacs already have removable shells for color coding, just add a few layers of kevlar to the outside of that and be done with it.

>>63967682
holy shit this infographic sucks fucking ass
>lumps CB radio and HF into the same infographic of HF long distance comms
Which is retarded since CB skip is very unreliable in its hour to hour, day to day and year to year occurence, distance covered or even direction covered. And as mentioned, CB is the 4chan of the air. Are you going to trust what some CB-retard tells you when SHTF? Oh, you want to rely on CB skip to be able to talk to your buddy every day of the week 25 miles outside VHF coverage when SHTF? lmao you ded.
>does not mention NVIS by name or even explain the difference between vertical and horizontal HF antennas
>just retardedly lists whatever best selling antennas are posted in the sales brochure of HRO without ANY explanation whatsoever
This is why people find HF so difficult to grasp, because hamtards usually skip over these super important decisions and criteria, since all they do is retarded DX'ing and don't give a shit where they end up poisoning the airwaves with their diabetes talk. This does not apply to prepper larpers, who are usually only interested in NVIS, and for good reason too.
>"this list is not exhaustive and just some noteworthy options"
anon where are the noteworthy options? The examples are mediocre at best. Retards will then only look for these examples. Just explain the features a basic HF radio should have, and which features are possibly desirable if you want to spend some more coin. Never mix 10/11m radios with 160-10m full band hf rigs. Not mentioning cheap marine 0-30 HF rigs is a disservice too, even if they are channelized.
>amplifiers go from shitty CB afterburners immediately to a 3k ham amp
as if there is nothing in between
>lumps shitty cb handhelds together with a KX2 and X6100, but a G90 is classified a base station/boat anchor
make it make sense nigga
>then has another list specifically for CB handhelds
niggggaaaa
>"freebanders tend to be highly skilled radio operators who value comsec and opsec"
hahahaha

>>63976239
Yeah

>>63967682
>>63976919
>not discussing digital modems at all
shiggy diggy, its 2025 doncha know?
>reading material only lists shitty ham books which are not /k/ oriented in any way
start with recommending the USMC Radio Operator Handbook and USMC Antenna Handbook, jesus christ
>not mentioning VOACAP propagation tools (price: FREE, nigga) to help the reader understand the required bands, power and kind of antennas to have reliable HF comms year round between fixed and known points A & B, aka between you and your wifes bull when SHTF, without even having to buy any radio or install any antenna.
>again, bad band explanations and overall only focuses on going as far as possible, without any direction or fixed intended recipient
More than 50% of preppers who want to get into HF, want to get into NVIS to reach friends and family on the other side of their state or something along those lines, not much more. This terrible infographic does more harm than good against that background.

>>63976919
Guy doesn't know what he's talking about. He didn't even make an ifak one until I shamed him for it a few weeks ago. He'd rather make useless armor infographics of plates no one here will ever see, let alone own. Bitch tits actually put mother fucking Condor on one of the graphics. I don't know why someone who clearly doesn't use gear insists on being such an attention whore about it. He's a fag.

>>63977070
good god then he shouldn't write so authoritatively, this does more harm than good. The eye protection guide was an interesting primer to possibly pick up some laser safe glasses in the near future, but now I don't trust that information anymore.

>>63977192
I'm pretty sure he's just lonely and making the infographics in a thread of like two dozen people tops is really important to him. The info doesn't need to be helpful or right it seems, he just needs to contently post his updates so we all know he made a slight change.

>>63976919
And that's why I post these, so they get feedback and can be improved. This was an old infographic from nearly a year ago.
>>63976962
See above.
>>63977070
You're referencing the mag pouch infographic, which was updated last thread and moved Condor into the /pfg/ department in a side section. I don't see the issue with that, lol. Same for elite spanker and the other /pfg/ standbys.
>>63977192
The purpose of the infographics is group collaboration, if I'm off on something or something needs improvement, then they can be amended. I'm not an authority, just a scribe. The laser eyepro infographic's info is good and well-sourced, albeit I need to update it with other options. Above anon, acting as if he's the mayor of /gq/, takes pride in "shaming" me into making an IFAK infographic when in reality that was a three-anon collab. I actually enjoyed making that one. I put off making that one however because it needed extra QC, which in the end it got.

If anyone else wants to make or update infographics, be my guest. There's no reason why earpro guy, baganon, and myself are the only ones atm.

>>63977397
Thank you again for making me the main character then. It's a pet project because the infographic situation before /bag/anon fixed the armor guide was extremelt sparse. Once the infographs are done and fairly polished, I'll upload them all to an imagehosting site so there's a permanent reference for all of them. That's the end goal at least.

>>63976237
That's the big one, will go in the next update.

>>63977471
You've been doing this for like a year now bro. Either shit or get off the pot.

>>63977544
Once the list above is cleared out and the HF radio guide is updated. If the mayor wants to revise the latter with NVIS and other topics, he's more than welcome.

>>63977458
>The purpose of the infographics is group collaboration
Okay but where is this supposed group sourced from and where is this collaboration happening, since it apparently isn't on this board or with anyone knowledgable on (tactical) HF comms.
Can't rip on other infographs since I'm not an SME in those fields but this HF one is really, really bad. There really isn't any part of this graphic that I could approve in any shape or form for a V2.0.
> I'm not an authority, just a scribe
There are plenty of statements in there that are.... seriously flawed at best. If there is a group that is feeding you this information, seek a better group and do some cross checking with other experts and groups before publicly post this slop, unless your an SME on that particular topic yourself. If this is done on the basis of your own research... then please stop posting, about HF at least.

HF is not a simple topic or capability like buying a LOS VHF/UHF radio or a thermal imager. Once you understand the propagation characteristics of the different HF bands, it usually becomes really apparent what kind of equipment, setup and antennas you need for your goals, which might be entirely different than a ham op trying to DX to wherever. Without understanding the theory, these kind of infographics usually end up being a one-size-fits-none type of deal, doing more harm than good to those poor sods that end up buying into HF based off of these infographics and end up spending a lot of money and getting a lot of frustration in return
>inb4 people need to do their own research
YEAH NIGGA THEY USE SHIT LIKE YOURS AND CALL IT DOING THEIR OWN RESEARCH

>>63977544
>Either shit or get off the pot.
Yeah you owe me a new pair of sides, my old ones just went up in smoke

>>63977581
Alright, it's clear HF is much more your domain than mine. How about I retire the one I made and you make a replacement? Then I can work on the other items, list gets done faster.

>>63977602
I'm too busy with other projects at the moment that I can't commit to this, how much I'd like to.
I'd recommend taking out the CB from the HF guide. While it is true that the 27MHz CB radio frequencies fall within the classical 2-30MHz High Frequency spectrum, its behaviour is too different from the classic HF bands such as 80, 40 and 20 meter. I've already had silly discussions with people that bought into and thought that CB was "just as good" as HF because "they both skip" based of generalistic guides like this and what some folks said on YouTube. I'd recommend explaining this in a small section in the HF guide, why it is missing.

I'd recommend splitting the HF guide in a couple different parts.
Part 1 should go over the potentially different goals a /k/ommando could be interested in with regard to HF. Which could be
1. Just getting news and information (The first goals should actually always be shortwave reception. It's cheap to get into, and the simple wire antennas are very forgiving. I'd recommend getting an SSB-capable radio immediately. First focus on shortwave broadcasters, so multi-kilowatt AM stations on shortwave. What are you able to hear at what times of the day? Same with amateurs, during the day you hear hams from totally different locations than at night, even at the exact same frequency.)
2. beyond-line of sight infrastructureless regional communication (<300mi) glossing over NVIS propagation and accompanying antennas. 20 watt is usually plenty of RF power.
3. national or international communication (>300mi) glossing over vertical antennas and

(cont'd)

>>63977707
Waiting on your part 2, but this is all very good. It's on the list.

>>63977707
Part 2 should go over equipment and general HF antenna theory (horizontal dipoles/inverted Vee's, inverted L antennas, 1/4 wave verticals, horizontal full wave loop antennas and so on. Focus example gear on three categories
- QRP and otherwise manpackable radios, like the x6100, 817nd/818 or that G90
- cheap 100w rigs, like that 735, 718, or just any cheap 100w HF rig, including channelized marine gear
- expensive gear, but not fragile touchscreen ham crap. Get a brand-new 891 or 718 with ATU and a real good 0-30 antenna. Install a good base station RF ground, and lightning arrestors. Or recommend professional HF equipment like Barrett or Codan if someone wants to spend used-car money type of shit.
You cannot compensate a shitty incompatible antenna for your goals or bad ground with a fancy radio or ATU. Skip recommending power amplifiers for the same reason. If you can't make the intended contact on a good day with 100 watts, it won't work either with 1000 watts. The 1000 watts make the number of bad days a bit less, but it is usually exaggerated how much a PA helps.

Part 3 should go over digital modes and related equipment. I don't use digi, since I don't think it has a lot to offer unless you have a specific person you want to contact, you know eachothers setup and such, and made agreements on those. Digital modes can make comms possible where SSB can't reach, but there are too many different modes and configs for reliable & effective contacts with people that you haven't commed with before, and with whom you can't comm with over SSB to make those agreements like which mode.
(cont'd)

>>63977793
Also all very good. This needs to be done right, so I'll retire the existing HF infographic and take care of this multi-part "HF megaguide" when the list is cleared and the infographics are all compiled.
Unrelated, I'll be splitting the turkshit shotguns for the shotgun infographic into their own entirely separate infograph. That way they aren't muddled together.

>>63977793
Same reason why I don't use those modes like winlink or FT8. Their capabilities are insane and irrefutable, but the amount of people that run those modes in emergency situations I don't believe it will be worthwhile. I'm probably not the best person to ask about this. For ARES and MARS, using Winlink to send casualty reports and other large datasets like that across counties to a regional HQ, sure it will be the best solution. But I just need to know if a particular highway 150 miles away is deadlocked with traffic or not, so I'd rather focus on having a good reliable HF manpack with a simple NVIS antenna that I can easily take with me. If I can make SSB contacts from a backpack, that is good enough for me. you don't have to get into digital. It certainly has its technical merits, but I'm not too convinced those merits carry over into a disaster situation

So now, what to with CB. It has its merits and certainly should deserve an infograph by itself. There is nothing wrong with focusing on shortwave reception only (AM/SSB) and getting a CB for long-distance comms in lieu of HF stuff. If you have a farm or live in a rural area, and are not bothered with a large 1/4 or 5/8 CB antenna, go for it. It is cheap and will go far, just not everyday or even one day every week. Just know the caveats, such as that skip does not happen all the time, and that there will be a considerable dead zone beyond your line of sight propagation until the skip comes back down after bouncing off the ionosphere.
Even if there is no skip, on a farm having a base CB and some handheld CB radios, and a CB rig in your truck can be lifesaving comms, even if it is "only" 5 miles of coverage. Having a variable power amp is important, you don't always need 100+ watts. I would recommend a small amp for working CB skip, 100-200 watts should be plenty. Now why CB over VHF? because it's legal (besides the amp), don't have to deal with MURS or business licenses, AND you get skip WHEN it happens.

>>63977892
Forgot to add that cheap CB rigs only have AM or AM/FM. If you want to work skip, your rig should have SSB. Having a base CB with SSB is fine, and you can just have an AM/FM rig in your truck. Just make sure to set the right modulation after you're done working skip. And working skip when someone else is expecting to be able to contact you on your base CB with their AM/FM rig is bound to create problems. So make sure you take stuff like that into account.
There is IMHO little value to the CB freeband, besides creating additional CB channels that are less crowded and less frequently monitored. Their propagation characteristics are not any different from the legal CB channels, unless you drop down to at least 20MHz. When SHTF you can do whatever, but I'd steer clear from freebanding. If your CB channels are that crowded, you might want to invest in rigs that support CTCSS.

>>63977892
>>63977964
Excellent. Thank you for the writeup. I'll probably make the revised HF infographic into about four parts. CB gets its own infographic since it's the red-headed stepchild, akin to the fed-boi armor infographic of plates very few people even have opportunities to buy (going off the archives there's like 3-4 anons with LIBA, only 1-2 with the M993-rated heavy-duty version, tops), and the signal jammer infographic - which nobody here should treat as a buyers guide. It is a capabilities reference.

Wanna buy an assault pack, I'm in a motorized infantry unit.
Im thinking a mystery ranch blackjack 35 because of the organization pockets it's got, I have a 3dap and like it but it's only got a main bag compartment so when i got small items to put in its a pain in the ass, I could attach gp pouches on the molle sides and front tho altough when its not full its saggy as fuck even more so with pouches on it being on the top and not near the base of the pack, otherwise a camelbak bfm, i like the clamshell opening and the pockets for organization, all 3 have the futura Yoke which is very comfortable, problem is the bfm doesn't come in multicam.

The 3dap and bfm can be used as assault packs if chinched down when less loaded or patrol packs given their larger volume, which i like as i don't want to have 100 packs, on the blackjack 35 i like the pocket design but it's a bit smaller so it might not work as a patrol pack especially in cold weather

>>63978136
As for a ruck I was thinking a mystery ranch SATL, which is the right size for carrying sustainment gear mor multiple days without being too huge.
As for a very big ruck, that you won't really almost every use, I like the mystery ranch 6500, mountain ruck, or blackhack 80, the first 2 seem too big for any realistic use, while the blackjack 80 is a little smaller and already has all the external pockets you need on the outside for organizing smaller or quick acces items, and if you need more space you can expand it to the same volume as the others with sust pouches on the side molle.
The 6500 is a very good design just too huge in my opinion so if you don't fill it completely it will sag all over the place.
The mountain ruck is also good but less comfortable bc it's not a tubular design and it's got too little org pockets in my opinion.
while the blackjack is a good middle.ground in terms of volume and got enough external pockets

>>63976237
Here you go, updated version. Infiray is in.

Quick update to the eyepro infographic, knocking this off the list.

Opinions on the otte gear helo jacket as a mid weight puffer jacket?
Will it fit over a pc?

>>63967682

Actual ham radio operator. This radio graphic is ass.

There are a few things I agree with (it's actually good to study for the licenses even for prepper larpers, this teaches a great deal). But there's so much fucked up.

The USMC Radio Operator's Handbook and Antenna Handbook are quite good and should be on here.

How the fuck was the equipment on this graphic selected? Did you just pick random stuff from catalogues? Why the FUCK is the FTDX101 on here but not the FTDX10 or IC-7300, basically the two most popular HF transceivers for several years?

Why do antennas get basically no mention? That's basically the most important part of any radio setup. Why the FUCK is a 1.5 kW amp on here?

Band descriptions are fucked. 10m isn't "the best mix of antenna length and long range,
we're coming off the solar cycle peak and 10m is usually absolute ass now (and will be for years). And I'm someone who has worked 10m CW DX with 100w from CONUS to fucking Japan and South Africa. 40m is not a "less active" band, it's extremely fucking popular, possibly the most-used HF band. 80m is also extremely popular, especially for SSB at night. 160m isn't LF, it's MF.

The band allocations also vary by country, what you've posted here is USA-specific.

Why is there basically no discussion of different radio modes (JS8, SSB, so on).

Honestly HF radio is a huge topic that requires significant investment of time, money, and learning to use with remote chance of effectiveness. It is not a good topic for one of these graphics.

>>63979363
All good info, the HF infographic is admittedly old and a crude first effort. As mentioned above the plan is to retire it, then make a 4-5 part infographic series once the "list" of other shit is cleared up.
The more better info you two throw at me, the more I have to work with once I can get around to the new ones. Keep it coming.

>>63979410
The fact that you take random posts on /k/ as fact is also scary enough. Seriously bro, if you're not actually knowledgeable in these topics, then why are you even bothering putting them together? Where are you getting all this info for these various graphics from? Who are these collaborators you talk about? How do you vet the information provided?

Genuinely it really does feel like your graphics do more harm than good at this point. I'm not expert on any of these topics, but with the knowledge I do have, glancing over a lot of them, the info is outright bad. I ask again, if you aren't yourself knowledgeable on these topics, why are you even bothering?

>>63979465
There's certain topics where I'm much more in my element, others where I'm not (HF radio, as you can tell), but for some reason there's a shortage of people willing to make infographics so I'm up. I'm learning on the weaker topics as I go from anons more in the know than I.
As said before, if you wanna make infographics be my guest. This doesn't have to be a three-man gig.

>>63979479
You didn't answer my questions. Where are you actually getting this info that you put into these infographics from? Who are your collaborators? How do you vet the info they provide? Are you just taking random posts on fucking /k/ at face value workout verifying it? These are all important questions and you've dodged answering them twice now.

>>63979609
Alright, sure.
1. Research on various forums including here and other sites, plus what personal experience I have.
2. Other anons. See first aid infographic back in the archives.
3. Answered in #1 and also a general smell test.
4. Only if it's clear they know more than I. Again, smell test.

>>63979609
NTA but agree with your premise. Tbh the intent is provide base reference info. The expectation is that the reader has a degree of competency and is capable of performing their own research. Outside of that, these are helpful, but are absolutely not to be used as a bible when it comes to these things.

>>63979703
This is all anyone needs to hear about this. Please do everyone a favor and stop because honestly, you're doing more harm than good at this point. We all appreciate the intent, but you need to find a different hobby before someone actually listens to one of these recommendations.

>>63979714
And that's the idea. Anyone is welcome to help.
>>63979717
And your alternative is... nothing?

>>63979721
Honestly, at this point, nothing is better than outright incorrect info. I don't mean to hurt your feelings but some of this info is too bad to ignore and let slide by.

>>63979731
but how else are we going to keep our amazon affiliate money coming in? Let them buy. Those that use their gear will learn. That being said, most could use a fluff & dust. Unfortunately, comes with the territory.

Holosun thermal, yay or nay?
I've been wanting a thermal optic and for $1500 this one seems to be a pretty gud value unless there is something in a similar range I'm not aware of.

>>63959589
I’m gonna be 100% honest, my $16 Aliexpress bump is preferable in most ways to my legit TW bump
>Metal, detachable shroud; bungee retention comes with biners at the end instead of wire c-hooks
>significantly lighter construction (thinner and slightly less rigid plastic, but I’m not jumping out of helicopters and neither are you)
>you can add a Chinee drop-in boa suspension for another 5-8 bucks
>velcro placement’s better (minor but noticeable)
Pads are obviously far better on the TW, but that’s what an aftermarket is for. Protection Group Danmark has better pads than TW and for way cheaper.
Don’t listen to that other anon, nightcaps and the like are for portability and concealment when you’re not wearing them, they’re definitely not for comfort
>t. 50+ hours wearing one under NV

>>63979731
Let's be productive about it. I agree the HF radio guide is a crude first effort, and it's hereby retired until the multi-part "super infographic" is done. I'm not going to defend that one further, I made it about a year ago and it's in desperate, desperate need of total revision - as everyone agrees.
What bad info is in the advanced / basic radio guides, the armor guides I did with baganon - who made the revised bag guide, thermals, the eyepro infographic upthread? LAMs? Spicy radio guide? Breaching? If there's bad info, let everybody hear it so the infographics can be tested, and if something is definitely off corrected.

You're also not hurting my feelings, please, I don't know everything (far from it) and I come here because this is seemingly the last place on the internet where people can be frank with each other. I appreciate the honest feedback as I did from A2 with the breaching guide and others regarding the other guides. Like I said before, if shit's off others are more than welcome to update infographics - I'm just one of the few willing to make infographics currently. These are all free for the taking.

What I'll do going forward is mark new infographics DRAFT as I've previously been doing for about 1-2 weeks. That'll be the time to hit me with the hard feedback, and so people know they aren't polished. As >>63979714 expressed better than I, it's base reference info. I'm showing the field and allowing people to make their own calls, that's all.

>>63979748
I'd pass on that one. The sensor resolution is 256x192, which is awful. For $1,500 the Oneleaf in pic related mogs the absolute shit out of it on specs, although it's a heavier "traditional" thermal that cannot be used as an overlay red dot.

>>63979744
Fluff and dust away, I ain't territorial with these microsoft paint projects. Pic related is the VHF / UHF radio guide, which is IMO much more polished, got posted a lot more, and survived more trial-by-fire than the HF guide.

>>63979775
Honestly man, the biggest issue I and seemingly others have with you is how you speak with such authority on subjects that you clearly aren't that knowledgeable in. This was the case with the IFAK guide until you were corrected on things. I think the DRAFT idea isn't a bad start, but you really need some kind of way of actually vetting the info you get beyond "the smell test". Maybe include citations on some of the material or something. I dunno what else to tell you, but this demonstration just makes me not want to trust anything you've posted. Being a bit shitposty and adding Condor and the like, even if it is for poorfsggotry purposes, doesn't help your case either. This is the last I'll say on the matter.

>>63979814
>how you speak with such authority on subjects that you clearly aren't that knowledgeable in
I do? Wasn't the intention. I try to keep a bland approach with the occasional lame, but funny to me joke in there.
>This was the case with the IFAK guide until you were corrected on things
And that's the idea. The IFAK guide was corrected because anons more knowledgeable than I raised issues.
> I think the DRAFT idea isn't a bad start
And it'll be done going forward.
>but you really need some kind of way of actually vetting the info you get beyond "the smell test"
That's what you people are for, you're excellent at the job. I know when I've been outmatched on something. The hams upthread are clearly beyond me in HF radio knowledge. Anyone can see that.
>Maybe include citations on some of the material or something
I agree. I started doing that with the eyepro infographic since it's technical. See the graphs at the bottom. Going forward I'll include cites on the other infographics.
>Being a bit shitposty and adding Condor and the like
I see my sense of humor is lame. Ah well. Anyways, see >>63950066 for the revised mag pouch guide. Condor is in the explicitly /pfg/ category with other stuff. Putting the MA33 mall ninja pouches in the same box as the "real deal" stuff could be misleading, I agree.

>>63979839
>Trusting random posts on /k/ and plebit without actually verifying them
Ngmi

>>63979786
Oh cool. I wish it had a footprint for a dot on top but I can figure out something else.

>>63979860
Seem to be making it alright, the infographic situation before baganon got this train rolling and I joined in was thin. The old bag infograph was 90% irrelevant, and prior infographs did need updating.
The FAK infograph was a group effort, but it's the best one I think we've had. I'm just a scribe.

>>63979862
It's basically unbeatable at the $1,500 price point if you can tolerate the bulk and weight. People think they're deliberately selling it at a loss for strategic reasons. There's a discount code as well if you buy direct from them, RCMT1000LRF. Should be 5% off.

>>63977397
Most of the infographics suck.
But, they're not all bad, because they stimulate discussion and keep these threads moving.
It's almost like they suck on purpose to get people talking. The old infographics were very sparse and didn't feature any cringe commentary or attempts at humor -- but nobody ever talked about them, either.

>>63980151
>they suck
How so? Referencing FAK, armor, the kit guides, etc. There's twenty nine of them. I keep hearing info is bad but nothing concrete except that FAK needed polishing, which it got, and the HF guide needs a redo - which it does. For example, what's wrong with the armor guides? They're all concrete stuff you can actually buy except for fedboi. VHF / UHF radio guide?
>stimulate discussion
Of course, /gq/ is more active because of them. Before the bag guide was redone there were days without a /gq/ thread.
>almost like they suck on purpose
They aren't an attempt to create some kind of gear bible. They're just improvements on the old, outdated infographics, and also my attempts to cover niche areas no infographic has gone before.

The real issue IMO is that as we lose old heads we lose info. The infographs are an attempt to "crystallize" info so we have a foundation and aren't having the same convos every thread.

>>63979839

Honestly, you should not be posting these infographics as if they're authoritative then relying on people replying with corrections to revise them.

If you want to crowdsource input on infographics, you should make a special thread for that and make it very clear on the infographics themselves that they are rough drafts and not to be relied on.

>>63980209
Hence the use of the word "draft" going forward. I've already explained my intent there. Still waiting on explanations as to how most of the infographics are off.

>>63980216
Bitch we've told you already. I'm not going to list every modicum of information you fucked up. Stop getting so damn defensive about this. Holy shit.

>>63980244
Lol, okay, struck a nerve there. I believe my crowdsourcing method to refining infographics to be effective, and since you can't point to major issues with more than 3/29 infographics I'll assume my methods effective. We'll agree to disagree from here. Now can we get back on track?

>>63980270
You're replying to multiple people telling you your info is shit. Deflecting and acting like a tremendous faggot isn't helping your case as a reliable source of information in the slightest. Stop derailing this thread with your shit, make your own dedicated thread like the other guy suggested and make it dedicated to updating infographics. Posting them here like you do and then waiting for corrections just leads to confusion.

>>63980284
I think I'll pass on the separate thread idea. There won't be any traffic and we don't have the numbers for an /ig/ infograph general. /nvg/ even is practically dead.
I've got no quarrel limiting the infographics, for some reason some anons really like yelling about them at the crack ass of dawn.

>>63980296
For someone claiming not wanting to make this whole thing about you, you've done a really bad job at not making it all about you.

>>63980321
It wasn't about me until some folks made it about me earlier today, lol. The hams have excellent feedback for the HF guide. Everything else has just been... the same convo on repeat.
This is /gq/, not /meq/.

rate gear

>>63980414
like a 7/10

>>63980414
I've noticed the Ukrainians seem to use 40 round Pmags more than anyone else I've seen.

>>63980414
Dickflaps. Approved. Bottom left has a thermal, that's great. MG man looks good. Camo reasonably matches the environment. Poor guy in the middle looks like he couldn't finish his morning jerk in the portapot. 8/10 real fucking based.

>>63980439
Malaysians also use the shit out of them. They fit in most 30 round pouches and are the largest proven magazine. Not a drum, not a torkmag with a weird spring, not a promag, not a schmeisser ARP special. Best option if you need more than a PMAG/30.

>tfw you look at binoculars
>you come across digital quantum NV from Luna Optics, the finest china. Buzzwords!
>Lux value is barely better than a used $200 nvg30 from ebay.
>$950
>you can literally buy a 320x256 taipan or 384x288 RIX monocular for less.
How do these guys make money.

>>63980455
Only surpassed by thermold mags.

>>63980624
Is it true these have rusty spring issues and are a bitch to load to 45?

Gimme H-harness inspo, qveens

>>63980179
They suck because they’re out-of-context slop that eat up half the posts in every thread

>>63980667
Boss, they took up four posts at the beginning of this thread until we got sidetracked.
Unrelated, here's the digital NV infographic - DRAFT edition. This isn't very pertinent outside of /pfg/ scenarios, because these are either incredibly mediocre or cost too much, but it's necessary IMO to address given that they were debated heavily in /nvg/ and, let's face it, /gq/ is /nvg/. The absorption is inevitable.
Fortunately there aren't many of these, so it's not an expansive infographic.

Current list of suggested and proposed infographics, we're halfway done since last week:
1. Holster infographic (Can somebody else take this? Not my strong suit)
2. Shotgun infographic.
3. Turkshit mall ninja shotgun infographic. (my idea, fun side-project)
4. Rifle infographic.
5. Pistol infographic.
6. Bolt-action / large-caliber rifle infographic, with an emphasis on uh... penetrating certain varieties of porcelain. I believe other anons will co-op with this one.
7. Analog NV not-/pfg/ infographic (There are people here who know this field better than I, anybody wanna call dibs?)
I decided to drop the clooner and Russian infographs due to lack of interest. IMO they'd end up like the indiamart guide and be functionally useless attempts at bad humor.

Alright, so my plan for the turkshit mall ninja shotgun infographic is threefold. Full disclosure I own a VRPA-40 that broke in like a piece of shit but cleaned up nicely. Fun range toy.
1. Pick only salvageable models suitable for use as project guns or range toys. VRPA-40, VR-60, VR-80, couple of others.
2. Cover magazines. Shell deformation. What mags suck (Promag, duh) and which ones are less ass.
3. Cover mall ninja accessories, such as muzzle brakes (V6, GK-02, GK-03, other obscure Russian arcana.)
There's a nice youtube guide to these: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qufs6-IngdE. Surprisingly, they do make a difference.

>>63971912
As a follow up to this conversation, if we review Buffman's XSAPI test we'll see the following:
1. M2AP beats it at 3,233ft/s and 3,307ft/s.
2. M2AP at 3,183 beats the plate, is caught in IIIA backer. Note that Buffman used some mystery meat IIIA that may have been insufficient.
Ergo M2AP @ 3,500ft/s should clear XSAPI. You have about a 200-250ft/s window where you're within v50 range at least.

>>63980209
>Reddit spacing
>criticizing community sourced infographics after Anons have been making them for years
Maybe you're on the wrong site?
>>63980898
That's promising then. As much shit as sig is in right now, they did just announce a new version of the 716i meant for 6.8. If they also have a 308 version then that should be a good host for spicy M2AP reloads.

>>63981366
Digits. I am really thinking M2AP at 3,500ft/s is the golden ticket. If you can push past that, perhaps with a .300 RUM or something heavier, that's more headroom. More distance. If you can crack XSAPI that's 99% of the armor out there with strength to spare. LTC 28601, Protech 2230 (which is rated for M2AP @ 3,500ft/s v0) and Adept Colossus as possible exceptions.
I do think the soft armor Buff used was poor, and if the plate were tested right, add 50-100ft/s to the v0 / v50 estimates.
What this goes to show is that no plate is invincible. The old adage holds true. Get the biggest core you can, and make it go as fast as possible.

>>63973755
I have an idea, don't buy that. You don't want it or need it so don't buy it.

>>63973755
USGI canteen pouches can hold just about anything. They make for pretty decent GP pouches, especially when you factor in the cost.
>>63981399
I wonder how much of a difference it makes having a backer behind the plate held up with bungee cords instead of being installed in a carrier?

>>63981469
I needed one for my canteen, bought a pair because it was cheaper and in case I wanted to make a traditional symmetrical belt setup, also look at what thread you're in

more rigamarole for my belt kit
yippieeee

>>63981508
The more rigid the system, the harder it is on the plate. See how hanging steel plates are less vulnerable than rigid ones to some rounds. If the plate is allowed to move backwards, that handles some of the energy.
The carrier + your body is probably more "elastic" (do recall difference betweenP-BFD and T-BFD, a person is composed largely of fluids) and has more give than bungee cords strapping the plate down tight.

>>63983104
Thats why NIJ has to heat the clay up so hot, any colder and its a lot harder.

>>63983116
Absolutely. This is one of the many ways shady armor sellers can cook test reports. Youtube tests too.

>>63950044
I LONG for the day I'm able to get my hands on a pair of eyepro that can fit over/house my government prescriptions

>>63985844
See the updated version of that infographic:

Unrelated, this is your daily reminder that RMA sux.

>>63985844
Good lord I forgot to link it to you. >>63978452
If you need stuff on the cheap sahara goggles will likely fit over your prescription, otherwise inserts from ESS and what not are available.

>>63985895
Appreciated but here's my gripe. I don't wanna deal with the prospect of accidently losing/breaking my inserts and rendering me shortsighted when wearing goggles. Nor am I looking for simple dust protection. Geh, I need to find a special person to manufacture my dream shades that'll not just filter the sun while sitting over my prescriptions, but also have comparable durability/resistance to the average eyepro.

I see a lot of talk about passive aiming with a dot and why you need it mounted so far forward and high. Couldnt you just wear the night vision over your non dominant eye and use the red dot like an occluded sight?
I feel retarded asking this but i cant understand why this wouldnt work. Is it a parallax issue?

>>63985954
Talk to ESS. They probably have something for you.

>>63950066
>Mag pouches
Okay someone explain to me why a double 5.56 mag pouch costs like $5, but if you want a triple 5.56 mag pouch it's suddenly $20-$40?

>>63985961
I think the issue is that it's sensory overload for your eyeballs. First the dot, then the image from your dominant eye around the dot, then the image from the night vision goggle AND your peripheral vision around the nvg.
I think some people (those that can merge bridged thermal and nv in their mind) can probably swing it but not everybody.

>>63985982
Mix of a few things.
1. Some of the options on that infographic are Chinese and enjoy a massive price advantage because 9-9-6 sweatshop.
2. Other options are milsurp, and certain milsurp is much rarer and more desired than other milsurp.
3. Pricing variations for new not-Chinese not-milsurp across sellers.

Draft version of the turkshit shotgun infographic is ready. I left a lot of space in accessories blank, will fill that in later.

>>63985989
Same thing's true at my local surp store, they're giving away double mag pouches but triples are either rare, expensive, or both


>and certain milsurp is much rarer and more desired than other milsurp
Speaking of, that Eagle T041 looks sexy as fuck and it's
>out of stock
everywhere

>>63985998
Same here. I'm rolling Condor MA33s only because I like having the extra... extra capacity and because triple-triples from more serious manufacturers are harder to come by. The Blackhawk AK/M4 is OOS everywhere I looked.

NEW: >>63986029
NEW: >>63986029
NEW: >>63986029
NEW: >>63986029

>>63985844
I need eyepro that will accept my government-issued gas mask inserts.

>>63980439
Delta-approved too

>>63987415
Everybody loves 40 round pmags. Even A2's bastard son, MOEGrip.