Thread 63957392

Well anons?
For me it's the flail.

>>63957392 (OP)
I refuse to believe a real person made this thread. You are a bot.

>>63957396
Nah, this is a classic thread.
Would you rather discuss revolvers or Ukraine for the 100000th time?

>>63957392 (OP)
I'm a claymore man myself

>>63957392 (OP)
For me it's the cudgel.
Let me guess, you NEED more?

>>63957396
ITS NOT ABOUT UKRAINE OR AR15 ITS A BOT EVERYONE PANIC

>>63957392 (OP)
I'm a flanged mace sort of guy but pretty much all blunt weapons have their place. Even gay weeaboo shit like tonfa can be useful if you know what you're doing.

>>63957392 (OP)
Lucerne. Quarterstaff too.

Are we going to have another thread where we debate the existence of flails like it's a religion?

>>63957392 (OP)
Gotta go with war hammer. You got the pokey end for some stabby stabby and you got the not so pokey end so you can bash your idiotic cousin's head in when he's had too many fucking IPAs and starts spouting off about how it's perfectly fine for him to ride his fucking bike on the road AND on sidewalks because he can choose to be a pedestrian any time he wants and should always have the right of way and also doesn't have to abide by the rules of the road for some stupid fucking reason that is absolutely beyond logic.

>>63957469
I support shad from afar because he's based while having the most annoying way of speaking ever discovered by man.

>>63957392 (OP)
Flanged Mace or Warhammer personally, but I'm also a huge fan of Bec De Corbin's, Spiked Clubs and for the pure grog choice, Cudgels.
Mauls are great but only in the vidya, blunt weapons are my jam and always will be.

>>63957392 (OP)
Why, my peanus weanus, of course!

>>63957392 (OP)
Classic round-head mace for me. Never gets stuck in a shield, never breaks, never dulls, just good ol' fashioned skull crushing.

nothing beats a proper shillelah, made from blackthorn, weighted with lead, and rubbed down with magpie blood.

zweinhander because it would be funny to see me (5'6) using a weapon a foot taller than me

>>63958340
>never dulls
yeah, because it's already dull, idiot.
solid choice though, I think I'd take it myself even though it has the least intimidation factor compared to all the spikey shit and even the big stick

>>63957803
Ive never really.understood why people act like it impossible they exhisted. Why would artists from the time co tinue to use the same fake weapon in their pics?

>>63958415
Redditors want to feel special and ACKSHUALLY everybody.
Of fucking course the flail existed. Every martial culture used them. The Mongols had their kiścień, the Chinese the meteor hammer, the Persians the kabastin, the Koreans a bunch of different types, the Japanese the chigiriki and others, etc. etc.

>>63957392 (OP)
For me it's the war hammer
>blunt end for ringing someone's bell
>sharp end for poking holes in them to let their water out
>2-handed war hammers have spear tips in case there's a horse needing to be turned into glue

i have thousands of hours playing chiv and mordhau. i approve of this thread.

>>63957392 (OP)
Polehammer

>>63958098
and he's fat

>>63957392 (OP)
polehammers, colloquially also refered to as poleaxes in the period

>>63957392 (OP)
Cudgel, which I'm assuming also includes stuff like war clubs. I am 90% sure I'll get called a weeb for this but my fav is the kanabo.

>>63959611
Not as much as he used to be, in fact I think it's mostly just his face that's still fat. Dude has actual health issues and I think he's in pretty good shape considering that.

I don't like his takes re: AI but I don't think I've ever seen him miss re: weapons.

>>63958098
Shad is a fat retard. He doesn’t know jack about shit.

>>63959662
>I don't like his takes re: AI but I don't think I've ever seen him miss re: weapons.
Then you are retarded. Dude constantly makes shit up.

I get that you want to support le heckin zased mormon chud, but come the fuck on. A fat redditor sperg playing with swords in his backyard is not going to have anything worthwhile to say about the use or history of weaponry.
Imagine the same type of retard making commentary on MMA, having neither studied the sport nor having trained a day in his life. Would you believe a single word he says?

>>63958098
It's bizarre, because Ozzie man reviews' fun and i did a thing posts feet pics all the time.

>>63957402
Like there hasn't been 1000 of these threads as well. At least Ukraine has new stuff happen from time to time.

>>63958415
The spiked iron ball on a chain is the most commonly depicted flail but they actually looked like >>63958437
Not to say the spiked ball on a chain never existed, but its a poor representation of what flails.

>>63959744
The one in >>63958437 is short for one-handed use.

>>63957392 (OP)
I made one of these. It was a fun project, though I didn't sharpen it.

I lost it somewhere, I think its under the bed or near there.

>>63959736
> Noooooo discuss Ukraine more!!
Hahaha, there's no way this isn't a glowie or some other type of complete degenerate.

>>63959755
>no you can't dicuss the biggest war in Europe since ww2 that features all types of weaponry from the cold war and cutting edge modern developments
>it's not /k/ related
This board is fucking boring for the most part, new developments from Ukraine.are the most interesting threads by far, even if some of it is just 'look at how retarded the Russians can be'

>>63959752
The design is basically the same as the two hander and ithe farm equipment though, it's not an iron ball on a chain, that's my point.

for me, the stick

>>63959744
a ball on chain or rope, sometimes without even a handle was a cavalry weapon

you can just hold it on your side as you gallop past and anyone unfortunate enough gets whooped while your hand doesn't have to absorb the blow.

>>63958415
>Of fucking course the flail existed
Just like leather armor
>can you show me it
>no! But it did exist, j-just not a single one survived to this day

>>63959892
Let me guess. The illustration from the 16th century manuscript De Arte Athletica (the one in the post you replied to >>63959744) that clearly depicts two fighters wielding flails doesn't count o algo.

And none of the other historical accounts or illustrations count either. Nor do any surviving museum pieces.

>>63959841
As I thought, a complete degenerate.
> even if some of it is just 'look at how retarded the Russians can be'
Too obvious, anon

>>63959892
Retard-kun, there are dozens or hundreds of them. Picrel is a museum piece.

>>63959892
Here's one that just sold at auction, via Hermann Historica, a couple of months ago.
> https://www.invaluable.com/auction-lot/a-german-horsemans-flail-circa-1600-5430-c-aff469ebf3

And I could show you museum pieces all day.
They're frequently depicted in art, too.

>>63959892
> This retard doesn't know of the buff coat.

For me, is the goedendag
Studded/ferruled quarterstaves are a close second

>>63960066
Those things are great. Simple yet deadly.

Hussite flail (8). Hussite weapons in general.

>>63957396
What's wrong with this thread, in 200 words or less.

>>63958385

godendang all day'ng long

For me, it is the humble bill.
Poke.
Stab.
Hook.
What more could a man need?

>>63960937
The one on the left is practically a halberd

>>63957392 (OP)
I’m a flanged mace man. Especially when paired with a shield.

>>63959633
this anon fucks.
polehammers are pure fuckin sex.
god I love those stupid sexy mother fuckers.

BOOM you get BLUDGEONED
BAM you get GASHED
KaFUCKINCLANM you get STABBED

just fuck anyone up any which way any fuckin time you want anywhere within about 3-4 feet of you all day goddamn long I FUCKING LOVE these mother fuckers.

>>63957392 (OP)
Morningstar is objectively the correct choice.

>>63961438
It's an English bill and they used them instead of halberds, so it's no surprise. The pointier, hookier ones are Italian.

>>63957392 (OP)
Bec De Corbin

>>63960030
>boys night out

>>63959892
Flails exist, there's both art and surviving examples, and in practice they function almost identically to two-handed swords. Leather armor also exists, same as cloth armor. The reason there's no intact surviving examples is because it was poor people shit that no one bothered to preserve. There's not much cloth armor remaining, either. We only have 3 or 4 intact pieces, all from royalty.

>>63959892
>l-leather armor didn't exist!
Here is leather armor. Truly the trifecta of redditcore retards who know absolutely nothing, but think they're smart: leather armor, flails, linothorax. Because below average morons can't help but feel superior in being contrarian.

>>63962286
There were all types of leather armor. The buffcoat was among the most popular forms of armor quite recently, in the 16th and 17th centuries!
And of course the flail also existed. There's a lot of proof in Europe, there are many surviving European examples, and there's mountains of proof for its existence in Asia and Eurasia.
It's smarmy redditcore retards, every single time.

>All these sharp object illiterates
>>63957392 (OP)
For me, it is the Grotesque or Effigy Mace.

>>63962286
>flails didn't exist
>leather armor didn't exist
>fire arrows didn't exist
>romans couldn't see blue
>greeks weren't gay

>>63962336
>romans couldn't see blue
que?

>>63962326
It's such a bizarre thing, and always seems to come from some retard on youtube.

Like no shit leather armor is extremely rare to find historically: leather is rare to find historically. We barely find scraps of it. The only reason that armor I posted exists is because it's been in permafrost for more than 2,000 years. If leather didn't decay to nothing, every time a field was plowed in Europe you'd find nothing but old shoes. Literally just tens of thousands of years of shoes.

>>63962340
I don't understand the rationale, something about there not being a dedicated word for blue and describing things as "sky-colored" or the like. They did call things sky-colored though, and used blue pigments in frescoes and mosaics. Just people being smug about being blatantly wrong, I guess.

>>63962363
it's just a quirk of the language. Not uncommon either. Ancient Greek didn't have a dedicated word for blue either, it was the same word as green.

English didn't have a word for orange either. The color is named for the fruit. Before that if you had to describe orange it'd just be yellow-red.

>>63962361
If the leather didn't decay, people would still be wearing repaired 12th century shoes in the 16th century and people would be claiming that there's no historical evidence that shoes existed in the 12th century.

>>63962373
I'm aware. It's as stupid as all of the other meme claims in >>63962336 and just as trivial to disprove. I don't understand why people continue to choose to believe any of that garbage. At least flat earthers have fun with it.

>>63962378
Because then they get to feel smarter than other people
>hah these retards don't know flails never existed! You'd hit your own hand!
It's what every stupid person who thinks they're smart craves.

>>63957392 (OP)
if you say anything other than cudgel or mace you're actually kind of gay

>>63957392 (OP)
The text from that image is true. Shame

>>63962406
Patrician choice

>>63957392 (OP)
for me, it's the quarterstaff
however I would never want to fight someone who had anything better than that with one.
I would mostly want to just smack beligerants and drunks with it as I mind my own buisness.

>>63962420
comfy post

>>63962373
>Before that if you had to describe orange it'd just be yellow-red.
Even that's a bit of a neologism, mostly Victorian hair-splitting. There's plenty of words adjacent to orange you could use instead. Off the top of my head, there's gold, copper, amber, tawny, dun, chestnut, saffron, ginger, marigold, goldenrod, maybe salmon in a pinch. We don't "need" the word orange any more than the ancients needed a word other than sky or sea to describe blue.

One of these motherfuckers.

The slight curve at the head of this club seems just perfect for a strike to the spot of the head where the brain meets the spine.

>>63957392 (OP)
For me it’s the fantasy stone warhammer
Irl weapons the actual warhammer

>>63962373
They had two words for blue, in fact

>>63957392 (OP)
Flanged mace all day

>>63962782
Neither one directly translates as blue. But it's strange that people will claim that the ancient Greeks had 3-10 words for love where that list includes words better translated as affection, desire, etc, and at the same time complain that there's no words for blue.

>>63957392 (OP)
"The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting." (Sun Tzu)

>>63962410
Thanks, Fren.

>>63962671
>>63962906
Based

>>63957392 (OP)
I have that exact flanged mace!

>>63962968
This is like saying we don’t REALLY have a word for red because we have a word for dark red (red) and light red (pink).

>>63964012
More like saying we didn't have a word for red if the word red actually didn't exist and we had to use scarlet or crimson instead.

>>63960840
That's a "holy water sprinkler" you retard.

>>63957392 (OP)
Born to be a war hammer chad.
Forced to be a flanged macelet.

>>63960752
Aren't those too short?
It would be damn cool to strip the handle and mount them onto a longer haft, though!

>>63957392 (OP)
Bonk stick because it just works, requires no metal and its just macho.
>But armored KNIGHTZ!!
none of you are rambo enough to kill a trained knight in full armor in melee combat, sit down or get your crossbow out like a smart fella

>>63957808
Kek, See this is what happens when you drink GAYPA's. They are those guys at those Colorado bars wearing full cowboy boots, gloves, a hat and none of it is stained, scuffed, worn or even used once. We have a name for them here in Arizona but I cant remember. But good job anon bashing your cousins head in.

>>63967315
> They are those guys at those Colorado bars wearing full cowboy boots, gloves, a hat and none of it is stained, scuffed, worn or even used once.
It's called playing dress-up. Like when I dress up as a knight to attend the RenFaire.

>>63965370
Whats stopping you from modding your flanged macelet so its on a stick?

>>63961569
There's no way that one's a real weapon. It looks like it weighs 20 pounds.
Also, it's incredibly difficult to find a good morningstar reproduction. Nobody makes them!!

>>63959998
>Nor do any surviving museum pieces.
Show one
>The illustration from the 16th century De Arte Athletica
People back then were making shit up just as likely as people now. You will find manuals for scythe fighting and other nonsense.
>And none of the other historical accounts or illustrations
Bunch of illustrations show snail jousting, were those real too? Medieval illustrations are not clueless-people-proofed, monks who knew shit about weaponry, will make depiction of like 10th century battle, with people clad in full plate armour.

So there is one, and quite easy way to prove they existed and were used regularly. Real pieces from medieval time, not some 19/20/21th century replicas, ceremonial weapons, or some gook shit.

>b-but hus-
makeshift weapons do not count too.

>>63960029
>19th century replica

>>63960052
>coat
>armor

>Leather armor also exists, same as cloth armor. The reason there's no intact surviving examples is because it was poor people shit that no one bothered to preserve.
That's the thing, leather armour was created as a concept by people who tried too hard to categorize stuff
>if heavy armour exists (metal armor), and light infantry exists (literally no armor), then there must be a middle ground, and here comes leather armour
But leather is expensive as fuck, and it was expensive as fuck. Making armour from leather, when cloth armour is literally better, cheaper and easier to make, would be stupid as fuck. Leather was already needed for various straps, belts, pouches, shoes, etc.

>>63970745
And what evidence are you basing these opinions on?

>>63957392 (OP)
Spiked clubs, morningstars, and spiked ball flails are all worthless on a battlefield. The maul is too heavy to be an effective weapon. The "mace" and the cudgel are ideal. The flanged mace is nasty against armor. Bec de Corbin is nasty against armor. Quarterstaffs are also nasty against armor.

>>63957402
>Would you rather discuss revolvers or Ukraine for the 100000th time?
Oh man, I wish this board would be flooded with videos of innocent Russian civilians being tortured and killed for the lulz like before Trump shut off Zelensky's propaganda funds.

>>63970706
The iron bits (which show signs of wear and use) are from the 16th century. The shaft was replaced in the 19th. Read the listing.

>>63970801
>Spiked clubs, morningstars, and spiked ball flails are all worthless on a battlefield.
Someone should invent something like a wooden stick with metal in it that can fire projectiles at a fast speed and rate of fire.

You may not like it but this is peak mace technology.

>>63970745
Wait, so you don't think that a 7-10 pound thick leather coat, which was functionally a drop-in replacement for a cloth gambeson, functioned as armor? It's well known that it provided good protection against sabres and other sword cuts.
It's armor.

>>63970924
That's CGI/AI.

>>63970916
Or at least a mace that won't stick into things and complicate a follow-up action.

>>63957392 (OP)
Poleaxe

>>63970934
>Or at least a mace that won't stick into things and complicate a follow-up action.
...huh?
You mean you don't use maces to beat people to death?

>>63957392 (OP)
>what's your favorite medieval blunt weapon
A brick.

>what's your favorite modern blunt weapon
A brick.

>what's your favorite modern weapon
A brick.

>what's your fav-
A. Goddamn. Brick.

>>63970941
Of course not, thilly goose! Why would anyone use weaponth for anything exthept roleplaying?

i want to love the flail so much but i'm pretty sure if i ever used one i'd bonk my own head
agricultural flails are also cool too

>>63970933
KoA has been selling that particular bar mace for like twenty years now.

>>63970941
That would make a good mace design, a bad mace design has nails in it that stick into wood and metal armor.

>>63960066
I came here to post this but it wasn't necessary. Impeccable taste anon.

>>63957392 (OP)
>No weapon better than war club

>>63959857
Here are steppe rider's flails used like you describe.

>>63962336
>>63962340
>>63962363
>>63962373
Caeruleus or coerulus - azure.
The midwitocracy seems to think that unless the word is "blueus" they didn't have a word for it. This is as dumb as saying people dreamed in black and white before color media existed.

>muh armor
not my problem knigger

Where the FUCK can I buy antique arms and armor? Without the "make an offer" bullshit.

>>63957392 (OP)
Flanged mace and buckler are my favorite backup (after polearm) for armoured combat sport. Pic related.

For me, it's the flanged mace, shillelagh or stone head mace.

For me it’s a tough call between the Goedendag and the humble flail. Both are easy to acquire and fairly simple to use. The spike on the ‘dag makes a huge difference for actually killing opponents, also lets you use it as a thrusting weapon in confines where you can’t swing it, but the flail has that chaotic edge to it. It’s a very hard weapon to block and you can wear out an opponent in armored fighting by scoring easy “light” hits on his head and shoulders over and over again. The flail also has that pastoral romanticism to it.
I lean more towards the flail for armored fighting and the Goedendag for unarmored and asymmetrical combat. I also like the Goedendag for fantasy SHTF scenarios because you could craft one today from a baseball bat and a roofing punch.

>>63974470
Here:
> https://antiquearmor.com/
They have some beautiful pieces, like picrel (https://antiquearmor.com/item/1708/)

>>63974959
Fuck this is cool. I wish I had fuck you money so I could fill an entire bigass room full of stuff like this.

>>63967315
You call'em tin horns. And yeah, fuck that guy, he got what he deserved.

>>63974977
Auctions are also good, though they tend to be European.
The two big names are Hermann Historica from Germany (who sold the flail at >>63960029) and Czerny's from Italy.
Hermann sells a lot of old stuff from the 15th-17th centuries. Czerny's is more 17th-19th and especially military sabres. Here's a great one:
> https://www.czernys.com/a-152/?o=118509

>>63957392 (OP)
What distinguishes a cudged from any old lump of wood? That thing barely has a form. Anyway the obvious answer is the war hammer.

>>63974772
Which division and team? West Coast Division, Warburton Warlords, Utah.

>>63957392 (OP)
Hammer, got a pick to punch armor on one side, and the flat side to break bones. The shape of it can also grab at belts, weapons, and chainmail to either disarm or throw an opponent off balance. It's way easier to learn how to use than a sword or a mace.

Obviously every weapon has their pros and cons including the hammer but thats just my opinion.

>>63957392 (OP)
Hammer wins.
I prefer pitchfork, and I'd like to add a short hammer with pick and a boot dagger. That's all pretty affordable common shit.

>>63959841
Fuck off, slav scum.

>>63975660
Based peasant

>>63962406
Ribbed, for my pleasure?

>>63975660
>Peasant loadout
>Boots
Bad news for you, serf....

>>63957392 (OP)
mace or war hammer. the fact that they can be used one handed, and two handed for more precise hits is a plus compared to most of the rest. compared to the cudgel, they are more durable, compared to the spiked club, they are more efficient in terms of applying impact, compared to the flanged mace, they are slightly easier to control, compared to the maul they are one handed, compared to the morningstar see spiked club, compared to the quarterstaff they are one handed, compared to the flail see spiked club, compared to the bec de corbin they are one handed.
easy. you wanna argue about it? how about you try using (most of) them in half sword, a physics based game, before arguing?

>>63959892
low iq contrarian.
https://greatmingmilitary.blogspot.com/2016/04/flails-of-ming-dynasty.html

>>63967315
My best friend is turning into an IPA fag and becoming one of those dudes with mullets, mustaches, and tattoos. Its hard to watch.

>>63981810
Fucking IPAs… Every brewery decided to jump on that bandwagon for some reason, like what happened with Pinot Noir once Sideways came out.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=iNENDQo6hOU&pp=ygUSV2hhdCBpcGFzIGFyZSBsaWtl

>>63981981
IPAs and Stouts are the natural starting point for any small brewery. The Lager and especially the Light Lager is a beer which is unforgiving to make and for which perfected versions are a commodity product sold on a vast scale at low profit margins. More flavorful beers don't just do a better job of masking errors, but even if your product is high quality, if you need to charge a premium for it to stay afloat, people will happily pay 2-3 times the price of a Stevewiser for a flavorful beer, but even if you can perfect your own lager, it's going to be difficult to have enough differentiation to justify the prices you will have to charge compared to a mass market lager.

I don't have anything against beer with more flavor, or even people who order IPAs, but IPA drinkers who make it a core tenant of their personality are the insecure dude version of the women who make "A Nightmare Before Christmas" their religion. Completely insufferable.

Man, i should build a flanged mace. I think it's the best non letal weapon.

>>63982190
> non-lethal
Uh anon...
Anyway, that aside, I support you bro. Go for it.

>>63970777
I'm basing my evidence on the lack of evidence.
>>63970930
No way in hell those things were 5kg or so, not only that, those were 1-3mm thick, not enough to be considered armour. Buff coats were mainly worn by high standing soldiers, so basically a fashion statement, out of reach of your ordinary poor fucking infantryman. Again, I stand by my
>those things were too expensive to be made into armour
because buff coats were expensive as fuck, because leather was (and is) expensive as fuck.
>It's well known that it provided good protection against sabres
I may oversimplify or overexaggerate stuff, but that's straight up nonsense.

>>63962278
>The reason there's no intact surviving examples is because it was poor people shit
leather was rich people shit, so argument is invalid. There is infinity of examples of leather stuff surviving, shoes, belts, pouches et cetera et cetera, because those things actually existed, and as such, will find a way to survive in some fucking ditch.

Hell, we have literally a 5000 years old bodies discovered with intact leather clothing.

>>63957392 (OP)
in fall/winter i carry a milwaukee 16oz ballpean for beating up hobos and schizos which there are plenty where i am

Flanged mace.
reliable, doesn't glance off targets, one handed, it's like the side sword for the armored knight.

And for everyone saying to use some kind of swiss army tool on a pole, there's serious drawbacks.

Having a spike on the end of your hammer makes it very east to block, someone just punches the spike. This is precisely why you see this kind of crude spiked mallet all over Europe, it was the budget fanged mace. And the problem with a polish hammer is that no matter how hard you swing it, it's likely to just glance off a target, smaller point of impact, less point of contact. If the blow won't penetrate 2mm steel plate, you might as well hit the target with a dead weight. in a melee I get the impression the idea is just to beat the other guy onto the ground, trample him, leave him for the guy behind you to stab with a knife.

>>63982802
> reddit parody post
Your entire post is pure bait, extremely low IQ. You don't know the first thing about leather armor, buff coats, flails, or anything.
The average buff coat in the Royal Armouries collection is well over 3mm, and some are far thicker.
Here, this one is 1/4" thick (6.35mm):
> https://www.masshist.org/object-of-the-month/march-2019
I could go on, but you're just trolling so there's no point.

>>63983141
>someone just punches the spike.
Lol

>>63959892
>>63970745
>>63970930
>>63962278
>>63962286
>>63962336
>>63962326
Mesoamerican history autist here, I have it on good authority that of the Conquistadors which had anything more then non-protective normal cloth garments, most of it would have been leather jackets (though I'm not sure it would have been considered "armor" so much as just clothing that was more protective) or mail, with only limited amounts having plate armor.

A lot of people say that they would have had gambeson but apparently it was out of fashion at the time for Spanish forces and leather jackets would have been more common, though obviously many Conquistadors adopted local Mesoamerican gambesons as used by the Aztec, Mixtec, etc (even into the 1540s, 50s etc, possibly beyond, Conquistadors in expeditions up into the US and shit were still using Mesoamerican gambesons, in some cases their helmets and maybe even shields etc, those expeditions were also still mostly allied/subject Mesoamerican armies more then they were Spanish)

>>63985101
Can you dig up the thicknesses or weights of those jackets? They could be proto-buff-coats.
Re: gambesons, something nobody mentions is how insufferably hot they can be to wear, and how they tend to retain moisture. I would NOT want to wear a gambeson in the tropical jungle, that's for sure. It makes sense that the Spaniards would prefer leather.

You are about to witness the power of street knowledge

>>63982802
What evidence is there that anyone that wasn't royalty owned cloth armor?

Linen and wool gambesons would have been fine, cotton would have been hotter and would retain moisture. Linen could be used as an armor by itself, properly layered and waxed linen(read: expensive) would be just as effective as leather as an armor.
Leather was extremely expensive as it is now. Linen was a pain in the ass to work because it was flax and flax could be worked a number of ways that were all laborious, and cotton was much quicker to grow if you could have the village kids pick all the seeds out it could be spun into garments.
Boiled leather was stiff and could absorb blows well, but it was almost like having armor made out of wood.
Boiled leather was good for things like gorgets and pauldrons. We didn't see too many breastplates made of leather.

>>63985159
The Greeks used linothorax, but they were expensive.

>>63985165
>Leather was extremely expensive as it is now
It wasn't and it isn't. The leather mafia wants you to think leather is expensive so they can overcharge you by thousands for shitty car seats that are worse than good cloth.

>>63985169
There's not better evidence for the existence of linothorax than there is for the existence of leather armor. Note that I'm not claiming that linothorax didn't exist, because I'm not a retard.

>>63985176
It's not the actual cowhides that are expensive, it's the tanning and selection process. Good leather is expensive. The stuff they sell that gets made into $3,000 pairs of shoes is really expensive.
Back then, any leather was expensive. People weren't eating their cows, they went to milk and cheese production. When a cow died and they finally got to eat it, that leather was expensive.

>>63985149
2x capture rate

>>63985197
>The stuff they sell that gets made into $3,000 pairs of shoes is really expensive.
not really.
>People weren't eating their cows
gb2hindustan

>>63985132
>>63985165
I can ask the people I know about this from, but my area is the Mesoamerican side of things, not the Spanish side, so I don't know that info myself.

>Re: gambesons, something nobody mentions is how insufferably hot they can be to wear, and how they tend to retain moisture. I would NOT want to wear a gambeson in the tropical jungle, that's for sure. It makes sense that the Spaniards would prefer leather.

Ironically, a lot of people actually ascribe the Conquistadors adopting Mesoamerican gambeson to the fact that it could breath better then metal armor, which as I understand it is true, though the reality is that only the coasts, lowlands, and the Yucatan Peninsula was really jungle: The highlands and most of the inner portions of Central and Western Mexico, Oaxaca, etc was hills and valleys/mountain ranges with temperate to semi arid climates

There are accounts by Conquistadors saying they adopted local gambeson due to the heat/humidity at times, but it was generally probably just because most of them didn't have much if any armor to begin with, and/or what they did have was damaged.

Anyways I'll also try to post about some blunt Mesoamerican weapons if I have time

>>63985465
>adopting
>your proper gear gets fucked up and none of these jungle monkeys know shit about metalworking
>use the crappy local gear because that's what you've got
"Adopting" isn't the word I'd use.

>>63957392 (OP)
Love me hammers so I can never choose between the maul, bec de corbin, and the war hammer.

>>63957392 (OP)
and here I am for 4 decades thinking a "flail" was called a "morning star"

>>63985159
There are other sources, because literally every culture on earth used cloth armour, because you know, it's reasonable to use it, it's cheap, it's super easy to make.

>>63983169
Congratulations, you managed to google out the thickest coat there is, tho it doesn't list all measurements, so I can't laugh properly at it.
>Royal Armouries collection is well over 3mm
Amazing, dare to think for a while how well 3mm of leather will protect? I mean, if you consider the rain as enemy combatant, then sure. 1cm of thickness would be a fucking beginning point to start consider it as armour.
Royal museum pieces list several buff coats at 2.5kg, and boy, medieval knights sure were retards for wearing heavy mail, instead of just 2kg piece of leather, greatly protective against swords, lol lmao

I'm not even gonna comment how those museum pieces all come from the same period(1600-1650), those evil museums must be in some kind of conspiracy, because for sure the world was drowning in leather armor in medieval times. But trying to google out weight of John Leverett's coat sure paid off:
>As noted in a letter from John Tuberville to his father-in-law in 1640: “For your buff-coat I have looked after, and the price they are exceedingly dear, not a good one to be gotten under 10 pounds, a very poor one for five or six pounds.”
In that period a fucking musket would cost ~1 pound, bulletproofed cuirass £1.3, burgonet £0.2, get fucked retard, case closed.

>>63960052
>medieval Paul

>>63985690
easy to see the confusion but theyre wildly different, the morning star is basically the most retard proof way to give someone a lethal weapon while the flail on the other hand is one of the best way for even an experience fighter to badly injure themselves.

>165 posts
>44 Images
>No Cactus flail
Cactus Flail.

>>63987196
> no demoncore flail
Demoncore flail

>>63982802
Leather wasn’t an isn’t expensive
Making clothes out of anything, whether it’s cloth or leather, is where the value add was and is. The actual raw material is affordable.
Consider how a medieval person acquired cloth. I shear my sheep, I pluck the tags, I card the wool, I spin it into yarn, then I either weave or knit, THEN I can make a garment out of it
On the other hand, whenever I trap small game, or larger game depending on time and place, whenever a sheep or cow dies or is slaughtered, I have hide as byproduct, ready to go soak in tannins that are acquired by means of soaked oak bark. It’s less time intensive.
I only have ever tanned hide for fun, and my wife has been spinning and knitting for years, and I can process hide into the equivalent yardage of cloth before she can go from raw wool to knit cloth - as far as active time goes

>>63987325
>Consider how a medieval person acquired cloth.
Raw material literally grows from earth.
>whenever a cow dies
And that leather will be used in shoes, belts, etc, not to mention, cows were stupidly expensive
>I can process hide
Making hide is easy, but tanning requires specialized tools and knowledge, your average medieval peasant won't be able to do it.

>>63985465
I litterally just explained in the post you're replying to that, at best, only about half of Mesoamerica was actually jungles or swamps. And the region had metallurgy, not just of gold, silver, and copper, but also some bronze smelting.

https://forums.sufficientvelocity.com/threads/aztec-bronze-metallurgy-in-mesoamerica.119652/ is a excellent overview of Mesoamerican metallurgy, though I will say that him stating the region didn't have metal weapons is probably incorrect: Yes, most metal axes are axe-monies or are woodworking tools, but there are some depiction of them which are martial in nature, wielded by soldiers or deities in military gear. You could (and some have) argued this is depicting ceremonial use merely with military insignia alongside it, and that is likely true for some of those manuscript depictions, but at least a few seem to be literal depictions of actual historical battles from around contact period, and Bernal Diaz in his account of the Cortes expedition says that a boarding party used metal axes to cut rope and such when attacking their boats. The Relacion de Michoacan also states the Purepecha had morning star like maces with copper or bronze spikes, and some depictions of what may be metal tipped polearms, though I've seen it argued the latter are more insignia/standards rather then functional weapons.

That's not to say I think they could have just had their allies smelt them metal armor, there's really no evidence that was a thing in the region outside of mostly decorative gold/copper/bronze plates and inlays used on shields and helmets, and a few scant descriptions of gilded war jackets/tunics that had gold or silver mail/scales, but that too was more status-indicating/decorative then it was functional .

In any case, the Conquistadors also didn't think local armor (or cities, buildings, art, etc) was "crappy", Spanish accounts pretty consistently praise them. See pic for a Conquistador praising their armor.

>>63987947
shit, meant to reply to >>63985627

>>63987947
>penetrable by a one-handed sword
That's not very good armor, you know.

>>63957392 (OP)
Macechads rise up \m/

>>63988086
>even with swords it is difficult to penetrate through them

>>63960066
I love the metal hat.
Hat. But metal.
I love metal hat.

>>63958098
Australian was not invented by him nor have humans discovered them yet.

>>63987259
Imagine the two maddest cunts alive going at it with these in a nighttime parking lot.

>>63957392 (OP)
Flanged mace for casual, bec de corbin for business.

>>63987325
>The actual raw material is affordable.
This. There is a reason why Asian leather armors are predominantly cow rawhide. A full set of Ming era rawhide armor(2-3 taels) is cheaper than brigandine(4.4 taels) and lamellar(5.6 taels).

>>63985149
>>63985223

>>63959744
Thing thing looks like its at its best when you sweep at someone's feet. Heavy end could knock someone off their feet or break an ankle

>>63957392 (OP)
The Maul always. Something more charming like the Kirkhammer would work too but I like this design. Few things beat a huge fuck you rock on a stick flattening you into a gruesome splatter.

>>63986939
>Royal museum pieces list several buff coats at 2.5kg
There's only two (well, three, there's two near-identical copies of the Lubeck wappenrock) extant coats of cloth armor that are significantly heavier than that.

>>63987259
What is the point of this? Why is it split open? Is the split ball held together by a hinge?
Seems like a lot of trouble

>>63990222
The split ball is held open with a screwdriver. Everyone dies if it closes.

>>63970745
>But leather is expensive as fuck

Not it isn't, it's FAR cheeper than metal and the leather armor being discussed, wasn't a soft buff coat but boiled leather or cuir bouilli.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boiled_leather

>>63990280
Ok it's a meme. Silly me

>>63959848
how do you use the one with the big steel ball as a walking stick?

>>63959892
>no! But it did exist, j-just not a single one survived to this day
because leather is extremely biodegradable, are you fucking retarded? It's like arguing people didn't use wood to build their homes in medieval europe just because wood don't survive the pass of time as good as stone

>>63990790
It's an exercise weight.

>>63970294
>Also, it's incredibly difficult to find a good morningstar reproduction. Nobody makes them!!
the logistics of shipping a pointy morningstar would be hell. You would have to ship them in plastic cases.

>>63990793
kek fair enough

>>63990377
>Ok it's a meme. Silly me
it was an actual thing, some sciencefag died enclosing weapon-grade plutonium in a ball he tried to pry open with a screwdriver

>>63990790
I think the ball is made of wood. If you look closely, there are parts that seem to have a wood grain texture, and the light patches seem like recent wear on wood.
>>63990792
He is retarded

>>63987947
>>63985627
>>63985465
>>63985132
>>63985101
also re: mesoamerican blunt weapons

>>63990950
>>63990950
>>63991023
>>63991023

Warms my heart to see hammer friends ITT

>>63957392 (OP)
For me it's definitely the Flanged Mace. Although I am partial to the War Hammer as well.

>>63957392 (OP)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QpV9UF3AkfI

>>63959736
>OMG GAIZ RUSSIA TOOK 3 SQUARE MILES OF TERRITORY LAST MONTH!!!
>OMG GAIZ RUSSIA FIRED MISSILES AT KIEV FOR THE TEN THOUSANDTH TIME!!!
I could not give less of a shit about the Ukraine war. It's like watching two retards fight. Amusing for about 30 seconds.

>>63990377
Bruh...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demon_core

>>63992410
That guy skipped leg day. Sheeeit, he skipped leg decade.

>>63957808
lmao

>>63982802
>Buff coats were mainly worn by high standing soldiers, so basically a fashion statement

This part is correct but you've gone running off in the wrong direction on this point and just started spouting stupidity. The fact that it was equipment for a soldier in high standing proves unequivocally that it was good and effective armor, since such soldiers not only were universally better skilled and equipped than the rank and file, but also were MUCH more frequently involved in direct hand to hand combat than the average pikeman or arquebusier as a direct result of their station & status, and as such what they chose to equip themselves with can be viewed as with authority as the best choice of the most experienced soldiers. Not to mention that the style of armor was formed as closely as possible to that of the latest courtly fashions in clothing. The noble class was also the warrior class, and they loved their ridiculous frilly clothing so much that they paid their armorers a premium to replicate it in articulated steel. I know it's difficult for a videogame minmaxing slob who wears t-shirts and sweatpants every day of his life to understand why these people prioritized fashion instead of armoring themselves in "Something simple and basic that just works" but you need to understand that reputation was EVERYTHING to these people, and striking a dashing appearance while performing an impressive feat of arms was just as important as splitting the other guy's head in half with your sword because it meant that people knew exactly who you are and knew that you were absolutely not to be fucked with, be it on the battlefield, in their private life or in the courtroom over a land dispute. Further being able to dismember a man with a flick of your wrist lends itself to a certain braggadocio and easy confidence which goes a long way towards explaining some of the more ostentatious fashions of the pre-industrial era

>>63995997
> The fact that it was equipment for a soldier in high standing proves unequivocally that it was good and effective armor, since such soldiers not only were universally better skilled and equipped than the rank and file, but also were MUCH more frequently involved in direct hand to hand combat than the average pikeman or arquebusier as a direct result of their station & status, and as such what they chose to equip themselves with can be viewed as with authority as the best choice of the most experienced soldiers.
Truth

played through all of elden ring with the flail, love it love it love it. I wouldn't trust myself to not kill myself with it in a battle situation, IRL i'd take the morningstar.

>>63997654
for me it's the Urumi, catches those annoying as fuck bats

>>>63957808
>lmao

>>63957392 (OP)
Growing up, obviously the morningstar. But with the passage of time, I have learned that the classic mace is the superior choice.