Thread 63964814

How much does manuveurability matter in BVR combat?

>4 weak engines
pukes

>>63964814 (OP)
zigger ally trash does not matter when mogged by drone

>immediate thirdie seething in thread
>reverse image search brings back a russian forum
interesting

Can I get some half decent replies that aren't bot niggerbabble? People emphasize that dogfighting is over and scoff at airshow displays, but I think being able to rapidly switch between having your radar on target (before missile goes pitbull) and the notch position without losing too much energy would be very valuable.

>>63964847
>t. doesn't know how to use google
the pics comes from twz

Maneuverability doesn't matter in a straightforward BVR fight, but energy retention (the ability to efficiently turn speed into altitude and then back again) and engine power do. A fair BVR fight looks like jousting, with both aircraft going hot to fire and then going cold to defend the others' missile.
A good BVR aircraft should have decent energy retention and should be able to repeatedly speed into the engagement envelope and then swoop away.

Most BVR fights aren't fair, however. Usually they involve a couple of aircraft following straight headings, one party sees the other first, and blows them out of the sky before the target understands what's happening. In that context: stealth, AWACs, radar power, and other factors are more important than aerodynamics.

>>63964864
It doesn’t matter. And you know that. Nice thread retard

>>63965018
>Maneuverability doesn't matter in a straightforward BVR fight, but energy retention (the ability to efficiently turn speed into altitude and then back again) and engine power do.
But all of that is a part of maneuverability.

>How much does it matter being able to dodges missiles
Yes

>>63964864
It just isn't important. Modern Western air-to-air missiles are essentially unnotchable, move at Mach 4, and can pull up to 40g in the terminal phase.

>Retard frog poster
And this is why the f16 remains the superior weapon platform.
An experienced pilot could simply zip past russian BVR missiles and get inti dog fighting range.
Sigh, couldnt post the frog

>>63964814 (OP)
SEEEEEEEXXXXX!!!!!!!

>>63965051
maneuverability generally refers to the ability of an aircraft to perform turns within small circles and maintain nose authority, both at low speeds. those features are not used in BVR combat.

>>63965111
>maneuverability generally refers
Then they should change that and start using words properly.

>>63965122
change what? what are you talking about?

>>63965122
How 'bout you learn English instead.

>>63964814 (OP)
You need enough to evade missiles or survive/escape engagements. Goofy thirdie cobra maneuvers is not maneuvering. Also piloted aircraft get g-limited by their pilot anyways.

Going fast is most important.

>>63965111
>both at low speeds.
Aircraft V speeds are what you forgot. You've got:
>Never Exceed (airframe damage if exceeded)
>Maximum (generally fastest horizontal w/wo afterburner)
>Cruise (recommended)
>A (maximum speed for safe maneuvering)
>Maneuvering speeds to include optimal, highest rate, tightest turn
>Vx, Vy climb speeds; landing speeds; etc
Multiple speeds in each category, also altitude and conditions will change the both the target speed and what works and what will get you shot down. Do note that I listed three maneuvering speeds, because you have a balance of turn radius, turn rate and energy retention.

>>63965311
Maneuverability is a general term that can apply to the tactical, operational and strategic spheres.
It's not my fault that people don't recognize this reality in general, and only use it in the tactical sphere.

>>63965630
ESL. Mobility and other terms related to initiative and flexibility more common. Also the thread is clearly about aerodynamic performance of a fighter aircraft.

nowadays, it doesn't. missiles are too fast and too maneuverable, and if one is guiding and you're in no escape zone, it's best to punch out. speed + stealth is generally the two most important factors when it comes to the aircraft's body now.

a stealthy (in shape, not materials) and reliable flying dart is meta. a modern f-104 that can go around mach 5+ up high is what you'd want to go for if making a new bird.