So what was the reason why Japan and other Asian countries where so behind in the world of firearms development that they used matchlock muskets while Europeans where experimenting with very early bolt action rifles like dreyse needle gun

The Tokugawa Shogunate.

maybe shutting themselves off from the rest of the world for 200 years and restricting trade to like one port with a handful of countries might have had an adverse effect on technological advancement

Isolationism

>>63969018
But why did other non isolated Asian countries suffer from this as well

>>63969064
>other non isolated asian countries
Such as?

>>63969133
China which used matchlocks until the 19th century

>>63969154
Devastatingly poor and backwards, entirely broken bureaucratic system with a monarch seen by most of their own "country" as cucking to the west and thus not worthy of listening to, and an extremely reactionary mindset in those upper classes that actually managed to keep some modicum of wealth which resulted in even more kneejerk violence any time anyone said 'let's adopt this western practice/technology'.

>>63969154
>china
>not isolated
Crack open a history book you dense motherfucker. I'm not going to spoon feed you.

>>63969005 (OP)
technology in a world without smartphones takes time to spread, zoomer
people in africa are still fighting with swords and clubs, and the most advanced of them only use guns that are 60+ years old
and it doesnt help that japan took so damn long to create a unified military, without that unification how in the hell are they gonna issue the latest newest arms? and matchlocks worked for them so why fix something that doesnt need fixed

>>63969005 (OP)
they quickly caught up though, with the Murata 13 and Murata 22

>>63969045
>>63969018
>>63969165
Nah, race. Seriously though 90% of everything is racial. Slants don't like to rock the boat they are highly conservative but also very reactive to outside threats and trends if they are exposed to them. Isolationism in a racially white state doesn't seem to lead to stagnation though actual investment in the military might drop innovation will continue, also it does need to be said that something like American "isolationism" is very different from asian isolationism. The former is essentially just a "fuck you got mine" mentality expressed politically the latter actively excludes foreign merchants even from port cities where they would otherwise freely mingle. One is about disinterest in foreign affairs while the other is motivated by a fear that outside influence while invoke political revolution.

>are still fighting with swords and clubs
Totally nothing to do with the mean IQ of 75 and thus the inability to make cartridges or even powder.

Jap matchlocks were also more like carbines than the heavy arquebus of Europe, probably due to the lack of widespread munition plate. You'll see some "proofed" jap armor which is made out of abutting plates rather than a single cuirasses, which wouldn't stand up to the weapons in use in Europe at the time. Doesn't help they held on to serpentine powder for a long time rather than switch to corned powder.

>>63969005 (OP)
>Why was Japan behind in guns
It was a shithole with primitive almost caveman like society and technolgies in everything from printinng to weaponns to engines and electricity.Admiral perry may has well have been on a fucking spaceship. Reality.

>>63969207
dude come on. Japan took only 44 years to caught up with the west. By the end of the 19th century, they were already an empire comparable to western powers of the time

>>63969005 (OP)
Essentially, white Europeans are genetically superior, intellectually elevated, and morally purer, by nature. Presumably that's the answer you would like to hear.

>>63969221
>they were already an empire comparable to western powers of the time
They had come a long way very fast, but they definitely weren't up to maintaining a global empire, a small regional one, maybe.

>>63969231
not everybody can be the Royal Navy

>>63969221
It's not that they are congenitally dumb, its that they are congenially conformist, thus when da empra or rather the politicians decided it was time to westernize the did so rapidly. But they are inherently "conservative" in the Roman sense of the word, change is slower without outside impetus. While Africans are just densely stupid and thus cannot developed at all.

>>63969227
Japs and whites are roughly equivalent in pattern matching abilities which is what IQ measures, but behavioral proclivities are a real thing. For example the oldest colonial Americans who even today don't interbreed with the wops and micks who were came in post 1890 are highly intelligent and independent. But they are also taciturn, spiteful, miserable, hateful people who can't be happy regardless of their situation and have an aversion to political or even social organization. Which is befitting of a people derived from mercenaries, traitors, exiles, criminals, an those willing to cross an ocean to get away from society. The Japanese would naturally see their more settled society as superior, and it is given their emotional makeup. Conversely and American redneck would hate it just as he hates urbanity in America or the culture of Europe. We see things only as we are constructed to see them.

>>63969237
Or the Marine Nationale and Kriegsmarine, perhaps even the Kooningsfvloochter, or whatever the Dutch called their navy.

>>63969250
>But they are also taciturn, spiteful, miserable, hateful people who can't be happy regardless of their situation and have an aversion to political or even social organization
Purest Anglos.

>>63969018
That wasn't as big of a factor, he dutch did keep them informed about current developments in the world.
Partially it probably was simply a lack of necessity. After the Imjin War there were a handful of small incidents in the early 1600s. That only changed in the 1860s.

>>63969250
>While Africans are just densely stupid and thus cannot developed at all.

You africans homemade and copies of european guns

>>63969250
Some African manufacture improvised or homemade versions of European-designed firearms.

>>63969005 (OP)
Germany didn't exist in 1836. Additionally what you posted under 'Germany' is a Dreyse M62 which was introduced in, you guessed it, 1862. You'll be surprised that the vast majority of soldiers were equipped with muzzle loaded muskets well into the 1860's. Look at the US civil war as an example and you'll see the primary weapon used was the muzzle loaded Springfield M1861

>>63969313
>you'll see the primary weapon used was the muzzle loaded Springfield M1861
To be fair that's because Ordinance Branch were a massive bunch of highly conservative faggots for the entirety of their existence. Which was ultimately why they were effectively disbanded after they were all but confirmed to the deliberately sabotaged the implementation of the m16. The US was often at the bleeding edge of small arms development but the army got shit like trapdoor Springfields because of penny pinching and an ideological commitment to low volume but high accuracy fire. There is keeping shit simple to ease logistical burdens and then there is Ordinance Branch.

>>63969250
I would push back on your view of the Africans. It's not that they are densely stupid, but rather it's the natural result of forcing pre literate iron age peoples into modernity at gunpoint. The pre contact cultures of Africa were shattered, then they were enslaved in their own homeland and then given endless weapons by bloodthirsty commies. That's not a recipe for success. You'd get similar results if you did the same to a migration era Germanic people or early Yamato era Japan.

The reason they were so behind in the first place is that most of Africa was too prone to tropical diseases and/or just not suitable for supporting large urban settlements. Some of the more developed and honestly civilized places in Africa correspond to where there was limited urbanization. Eg. Ghana, and Somalia before the commies destroyed it.

Now the west is so much better any and all talented Africans who get an education flee the wasteland, essentially performing Pakistan tier reserve eugenics. So with that in mind, I'd say that the Africans, much like the Siberians, native Americans and Bronze age Early European farmers, just got a shit draw of the geography card, from which there's little hope of recovering. Especially since the Chinese are going to settle and replace the native population of Africa.

>>63969313
>Germany didn't exist in 1836
The German Confederation was formed during the Congress of Vienna as a replacement for the old empire.

>>63969005 (OP)
Edo period was a time of pretty much peace aside from putting down bandits or the odd small scale rebellion. During the same time Europe was at war an needed constant innovation to get the leg-up on each other

>>63969207
Japs developed better guns than euros before their isolationism pre-unification, war tends to push things along

>>63969344
The Confederation was notably not a country, or even an actually united group.

>>63969344
Neither of which are Germany nor even unified nation states.

>>63969365
It still represented a region and a cultural complex.
Europe wasn't a unified nation state back then either but it still existed as a concept.

>>63969347
This. During the Imjin war the Japanese army was absolutely peer with the western armies, and probably as good as the Tercio. The Japanese got fucked by naval retardation, but they btfo'd the Koreans and Chinese so hard their historiography presents the whole affair as a naval war, because taking a look at what happened, contradicts the notion it was only one century of humiliation. (The Ming fucked China and the Qing had segregation with like 90% Chinese on the same tier as blacks.)

Come to think about it, the national weakness of Japan seems to be their complete unwillingness to convince of naval supply lines

>>63969372
>Europe wasn't a unified nation state back then either
It still isn't.
The German Confederation was an attempt to prevent wars between the hundreds of different cultures present in the region. There was no unification.

>>63969381
>convince of

Meant to say "conceive of". My weakness seems to be typing like I'm esl

>>63969347
The difference between Japan & China vs Europe is that Europe was literally always in a near constant arms race that only escalated after the Renaissance opened the doors on European empires again. Tons of money flowed into the continent, no one power could just say "fuck peasants having guns" like the Tokugawa Shogunate did and none of them wanted to since they could always do with more resources. Japan basically got the island syndrome/what if the UK didn't go colonial and they tried to rectify it 2 centuries later (to great success at first, too)

>>63969383
>between the hundreds of different cultures present in the region
About 35 monarchies and 4 cities.

>>63969396
Government =/= culture

>>63969350
>better
Debatable, it depends on the criteria being applied. The Jap psuedo-carbines were well made and effective within the context in which they were developed. Japan has shitty iron and didn't import much thus the armor was relatively poor so penetrative power wasn't priortized. So pseudo-carbines made sense: more volume of fire, relatively smaller physical stature of the wielders, cheaper to make, ect. While in Europe you'd want more powerful individual arms to counteract the more pervasive armor.

>>63969343
Sorry pal but any oldfag on this site will tell you that race just be real, yo. Seriously though we've spent 70 years and trillions trying to make both the North American Pavement Ape(17% non-African mean IQ 85) and the pure Bantus(mean IQ <75) into something they aren't an can never be. Worse yet most of these efforts have instilled in many a sense of entitlement and a narrative they they were "oppressed". Which means that they can never achieve what limited potential they may possess. Statical outliers exist of course and are lauded an treated well even if regression to the mean results in their kids likely not being as capable.

Also Chinks don't have kids, they ain't replacing anybody. Hell the only demographic of any real size I know of who breed at above replacement rates are rural right wing whites in America, even imported muslims and bantu stop breeding after a single generation of exposure to modernity.

>>63969262
They are the rock of the eternal shore, the only people immune to bread and circuses. Unfortunately they are a race whose entire mentality can be summed up as "excellent recruiting material for Chaos Space Marines" and little else.
It's ironic that the last bastion of civilization hates the very idea of civilization.

>>63969313
>America didn't exist until 1776
That is how dumb you are.
I'm impressed at your ability to tell a 1862 dreyse from a 1836 dreyse though, which looks basically the same.

>>63969424
>>America didn't exist until 1776
it didn't

>>63969426
The continent of America was named after Amerigo Vespuci in 1507.

>>63969381
>the Qing had segregation with like 90% Chinese on the same tier as blacks.
Funny how modern-day Chinese tend to gloss over shit like the Manchu queue, and how cutting it off carried the death penalty.

>>63969196
Based off the French gras and chassepot rifle

>>63969424
>>63969450
You're conflating a word with two different meanings.

>>63969424
America as a nation didn't exist until 1789, before that you just had a Confederation of 13 states.

>>63969481
How is that different from Germany or Italy?
The notion of what exactly constituted Germans and Germany varied over the millennia but it existed since Roman times.

>>63969005 (OP)
>get guns
>ban them
>ok fine, if you live in a palace you can have one
>but they have to be made by my super duper expert craftsman who has a lot on his plate right now
>alright, fine, they're legal, but only for the aristocracy
>they still have to be made by personal artisans
>one guy and his 3 apprentices working in isolation don't make any meaningful progress
>innovations are held as art pieces and not shared with a wider market

>meanwhile, in Europe
>every wealthy metalworker is trying their hand at gunsmithing
>get radical diversity in design philosophy
>combine the best elements and sell them to governments
>they get exported around the world where they inspire colonial metalworkers to become gunsmiths
>send guns back to the Old World with even more diversity of thought
>synthesis of the best design elements spawn a real consumer market
>makes examples of foreign designs easier to acquire and with a lower financial bar to entry
>inspires every two-bit backyard smith with a forge and a dream
>thousands of inventors all working at any one time in a ecosystem of constantly evolving design

I think it's pretty easy to see why.

>>63969313
>Germany didn't exist in 1836
A purely semantic detail. Germany as a concept is old, arguably going back to the treaty of verdun in 843 as term for east francia.
Your "criticsm" is completely devoid of any value for the topic.
>Dreyse M62
Except the dreyse was already in service before that.
And sure if we only consider the M/41 by virtue of actually entering service, a sound argument, and ignore the previous years of development it doesn't change the message behind OP's image.

I'm not sure whether or not I should be astounded that the one calling OP a fag manages to be a bigger gaylord than him.

>>63969227
I mean thats all true however calm down turdie

>>63969485
Technically the USA as it is known now didn't exist until 1796 when Washington voluntarily left office (i.e, not run for a 3rd term) which established the system that exists now.

>>63969608
But what about FDR? Did the US stop existing between 1941 and the 22nd entering force in 1951?

>>63969616
No because there were provisos in place for the suspension of term limits, elections et al during war. The UK didn't cease to exist because they suspended elections during the World Wars.

>>63969260
We call it the royal navy (but in dutch).

>>63969640
>Koninklijke Marine
sounds like something you guys made up to troll people

>>63969632
There were no term limits before 1951. The US wasn't even at war until December 1941, a year after Roosevelt was elected the third time and Roosevelt was regularly re-elected in 1944.

>>63969493
>The notion of what exactly constituted Germans and Germany varied over the millennia but it existed since Roman times.
This is an opinion commonly held by anglophones who make the association between Germanics and Germans because the naming in English is similar and one appeares derived from the other. Germanics and Germans are not the same thing. The former are Germanen and the latter are Deutch in German. Germany is not called 'Germania', its called 'Deutchland'. There is a reason why germanic tribes are called germanic tribes and not german tribes.

Don't worry, you're not the first american to be confused by this. The Pennsylvania Dutch are notably not Dutch but Germans.

Regardless none of this matter because Germany as a state did not exist in 1836 beyond a concept among german liberals. Incidentally they failed to establish such a German state roughly a decade after the timeline we're talking about in the 1848 revolution.

>>63969661
Germany is eternal in the soul of its people and has existed forever and will exist forever, you schwuller Kommunist.

>>63969585
>A purely semantic detail. Germany as a concept is old, arguably going back to the treaty of verdun in 843 as term for east francia.
You're like that guy that claimed the US existed before 1776 because the continent was named America in the 16th century. There's a reason why we're forced to talke about 'German states' until 1871 and the unification of Germany. Which coincidentally is considered a big fucking thing in the history of Europe, something that wouldn't be the case if Germany existed in 1836. Talk about semantics.


>Except the dreyse was already in service before that.
And who claimed otherwise? The picture in the OP is an M62 though which didn't exist in 1836. In short, stop being a dumb faggot.

>>63969313
germany as a concept exists on paper since at least a thousand years. The holy roman empire was founded 1033 and was made up of three major parts. One of which was called "Regnum Teutonicum" which translates to german empire/nation/land. The HRE was even called HRE of the german nation in the 15th century onwards. The german people have lived on the modern german territory for 2000 years+.

Claiming that something like germany did not exists makes you either ignorant or a anti german lefty

>>63969154
China had no foes to incentivize them to innovate. It was too big for its own good and had no peers to fight. There was barren steppe and tundra to the north, desert and mountains in the west, and jungle in the south.

>>63969684
>Germany is eternal in the soul of its people
trvke
>schwuller Kommunist.
both g*rmoid inventions

>>63969661
Dutch were Germans until 1648.

>>63969734
>One of which was called "Regnum Teutonicum" which translates to german empire/nation/land.
No, it does not. Teutons were one of the germanic tribes and they were from Jutland, modern day Denmark, not Germany. Moreover that is an anachronistic 'translation'. What we call 'germans' today were and still are called by a variety of names because there was no Germans in the modern sense. In Romance speaking countries Germans and Germany are/is often called a variation of Allemani, a germanic tribal confederation. In Slavic countries the deregatory term 'svabi' exists, derived from the germanic tribe of Suebi from which Swabia likewise derives its name. Still others use the term derived from the latin Germania which originally reffered to germanic speaking groups beyond gaul and wasn't a designated ethnonym of a single people.

>the HRE was even called HRE of the german nation in the 15th century onwards.
16th* century onwards or, in other words, it wasn't called that for the majority of its existence. Moreover the HRE wasn't a unified state either, wasn't called Germany, and the administrative and religious language was Latin. Note the 'ROMAN' in its name.

>Claiming that something like germany did not exists makes you either ignorant or a anti german lefty
Claiming Germany existed in 1836 makes you a fucking retard.

>>63969856
>both g*rmoid inventions
trvke

>>63969010
/thread
In all fields

>>63969907
>wasn't a unified state either,
>and the administrative and religious language was Latin.
Doesn't that applied to just about everything in Europe?

>>63969184
The ashikaga shogunate shitting itself to irrelevancy and the subsequent sengoku jidai retardation led to them using western styles guns in the 1st place moran
8/8 i responded

lmao @ germutts pretending to be white

>>63969943
To think that guy was considered really fat in his time. What would his contemporanies think of Murrican wallmart scooter drivers.

Oh tempora, oh mores.

>>63969962
Depends on the time period but generally no. England, France, Russia, Spain, Portugal, Hungary, etc.

The HRE was decentralized into a million states, independent cities, duchies, princedomes, kingdoms, bishoprics, etc. There was no real equivalent to Paris or London in Germany. Berlin was a random backwater for most of its history. The closest you'd get is Vienna and that's not even in Germany. The empire was so decentralized that it was an empire in name only.

At the same time Portugal and Spain were colonizing the new world the HRE was in the middle of the 30 years war and protestant Reformation. Ironically Spain was ruled by the Habsburgs at the time, same guys as who 'controlled' the HRE.

>>63970032
There was still a German identity, language etc. That shit wasnt just invented by liberal nationalists in the 1830s.

>>63969005 (OP)
the japs banned basically everyone from their island for like 200 years and only fought each other so they never had to advance

>>63969154
Look at a map. China is isolated as fuck. there is a huge ass mountain range in central asia and siberia to the north.
Go pull up a map of china at night, all of their cities are on the coast

>>63970117
>>63969154
it's fucking empty

>>63969983
>and Swedes,
Huh? What did the swedes do to Benjamin Franklin?

>>63970099
That doesn't mean Germany existed.

>>63970106
They didn't even fight each other. After the sengoku period mostly came to an end they briefly invaded Korea (as you do if you're Japanese) and then basically isolated themselves shortly afterwards putting down a Catholic rebelion. There were no major wars in Japan until the 19th century. The Samurai become an established social class during this period and become massive art faggots because there are no wars for them to fight..

>>63969207
the yuros couldn't really be isolated, even the bongs weren't that far off from the main land and they were lagging behind on rifle tech compared to the nazis and frogs in the later half of the 19th century
the US was never really isolated because injuns existed and trade with yurop existed and the thread of mexico and canada until the mid 19th century.
meanwhile in asia they only really had each other, ie china, japan, korea and maybe like vietnam laos cambodia to have to deal with. they had a lot of land to act as a buffer between them

>>63969424
>>63969585
germany is younger than the US you no gunz yuro retards

>>63969734
no it didn't. Germany and Italy didn't exist until the 1800s
>>63969335
because there wasn't an industrial base to feed the guns

>>63969585
the fucking nazis only had a quarter million dreyses by the start of whatever war they were fighting in 1866. the US had like 200,000 spencer carbines.

>>63969684
literally everyone who currently lives in germany is either of turkish or russian dissent. Germany was founded in like 1949

>>63970117
If they were white they'd have just invented flight and gone over the mountains, ya know like a sentient non brown person would.

>>63969260
>kriegsmarine
>implying the germans were better at maintaining an empire than the japanese
>>63969343
I'm surprised to see a candid take on pre-modern Africa here. Good on you.
I'll add that there are severe issues with each of their most common soil profiles, without the benefit of loessic headwaters to distribute nutrients in West/South Africa, or with overly-saturated soils in Central Africa. The only ones to get a good deal were the Nigerians, Kenyans, Moroccans, and Nile farmers.
Malian/Songhai history becomes really entertaining when you connect the dots to see how, even when they put their all into beating geography, bad dice rolls still managed to frustrate their attempts.

>>63970139
>That doesn't mean Germany existed.
Thats like saying Poland didnt exist between 1800 and 1918 just because it wasnt on a map.

>>63970153
>>63970158
>>63970172
None it matters for what OP was going for! What's with all these non sequitur posts?
It's nothing but performative act to show how "knowledgeable" you are, it doesn't you merely appear less socially capable than your average autist.

Which makes this:
>the fucking nazis
doubly funny considering they didn't exist back then. Which is also why I hope this is just some mediocre attempt at shitposting.

>>63970032
>Vienna and that's not even in Germany
It's not in modern day Germany but historically Austrians were German. Berlin wasn't part of Germany until 1990 either.

>>63969414
>Sorry pal but any oldfag on this site will tell you that race just be real
Lurking since 2007, posting since 2013, blaming race is a coping mechanism used by retards to make up for their inability or unwillingness to look at nuanced data. You are a prime example of this, judging from your previous posts and nonsense like how isolation somehow isn't stifling.

Did Japan exist in 1836? The emperor had no power at all and Tokugawa Ienari's power over the Tozama Daimyo was limited.

>>63970249
calling out the retarded no gunz yuros qho for some reason think naziland is old and that they had tech more advanced than the rest of the world. for some reason nazis think they are always so far ahead when the frogs got to smokeless before them and we (Americans) got to repeaters before them

>>63969010
This. 200 years of peace with laws that basically forbid firearms development .

>>63969983
>"Only this group of germans is white the other ones arent" he types in a germanic language

>>63969983
>>63970370
I've read that he was shitposting and making fun of people that obsessed over white purity when he wrote this.

>>63970117
They still could have traded over the sea. Both with Chinese vessels as well as allowing foreigners into Chinese ports but the Ming dynasty prohibited that.
>siberia to the north.
They rebuilt the wall to ward off the people that lived there.

Japan is the only white country on Earth.

>>63970302
Noone made this about germany vs us except you.

>>63970409
>Both with Chinese vessels as well as allowing foreigners into Chinese ports but the Ming dynasty prohibited that.
The Ming dynasty regulated trade by running it through the bureaucracy. Foreigners still traded, and that even caused the fall of the dynasty. Isolationism only becomes a real factor around the time of the Qing dynasty.

>>63970282
Bullshit, "nuance" is just code fore "i refuse to deal with the statistical data". We'd have to create a thread on another board to get into the details but lets be clear about this, half a century of data has without an doubt proved that heredity is the most important predictor of life outcomes. You might not like that but every single data point supports that model even as all authorities have desperately tried to suppress it. Everybody including you and me is just phenotype which is derived from the interaction of the environment with the genotype, and the genes are the overriding factor here. For example name one black nation which has ever experienced significant economic or military success against a non-African opponent. A rhetorical request of course since no such state exists.

Also as previously stated "isolation" is relative like many other political stances. America was "isolationist" just also a huge mechanistic player. While China was "isolationist" but prevented all but the most minimal trade. Unless terms are rigidly defined they mean nothing, specificity is key to accurate assessment. The Japs were isolated but being a people generally comparable to whites; their political class recognized that internal political stability was secondary to protecting themselves from external political predation thus they adopted a crash course in westernization, followed by a nationalist period as befitted the political trends. For example at first they adopted the French "New School" system but after a poor showing against the Chinks who fielded obsolete limey ironclads they adopted a British "battleline" fleet disposition and then beat the Russians because the first Russian commander was too passive and was caught in dock and the second was commanding a fleet of fools. Still highly competent but I'm pointing out their success was due primarily to enemy incompetence more than their own admittedly significant skill.

>>63970496
>one black nation which has ever experienced significant economic or military success against a non-African opponent
Ethiopia in its conquest of Yemen, Kanem Borno in its restoration of the ruler of Fezzan to power, and the various Berber dynasties that challenged Arab rule in North Africa.

>>63970409
they weren't fighting anyone but like the mongals who were nomads by and shit
>>63970487
you faggots started it by lying about naziland existing.
Also I'm not the guy who originally brought up the fact naziland didn't exist in 1836. I just don't like yurocucks and your fake news history

>>63970515
You're as obsessed with europe as you are retarded. Both more common features in the common burgermutt than one should expect.

>>63970512
Nilotics get a pass, not all blacks are made of the same stuff.

>>63970525
I named a West African state, West/North African desert nomads, and Ethiopians.
You gonna dig up excuses for the first two, or do you not have any?

>>63970524
nah, you are just mad you got called out, faggot. there's a reason why you fags are back to back world war losers

>>63970541
>America didn't exist between 1861 and 1865
Still retarded.

>>63969350
>better guns than euros
HAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHA

>>63970496
>>63970531
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Maroon_War

>>63970545
nah, you are retarded. the US existed in 1861-1865, the constitution wasn't destroyed over that time period

>>63970496
>one black nation which has ever experienced significant economic or military success against a non-African opponent

ok
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mosquito_Coast

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miskito_Sambu

>>63970282
Yeah no. Race is observably real, just look around you. Commie retard.

>>63970512
Black on black doesnt count.

>>63970672
Are you saying Arabs are black, or that the Ottoman empire is a black country?

>>63969005 (OP)
>Why was an isolationist kingdom/kingdoms so late to adopt modern weapon designs more commonly in use by Europe Thailand and Turkey up until Uncle Sam forced them to sell shit to America because weebs were a thing even way back then
Gee golly I wonder, also all things considered I'd say they caught on rather quick. In fact nowadays I'd argue they make some of the best rifle scopes such as the Vortex Razors.

>>63970512
>Ethiopia in its conquest of Yemen
Non-bantu-Africans with a mean IQ of 85 vs arbs with a mean IQ of 85. Seems pretty even odds to me. You know damn well what I meant when I said "black". Are modern Egyptians "black" despite living on the continent of Africa? Partially this is my fault, for which I must apologize after chiding others for not using proper specificity in terminology, so lets be clear "racially sub-Saharan African" is what I meant. But lets not pretend you didn't reach as far afield as possible in a desperate attempt to deny the realty of racism. And even that example was a race of darkies defeating another race of darkies.

>>63970657
>injuns
Not even what I was referring to, you are reaching. Also questionable application of the word "significant" however I didn't define the term so I suppose its my own fault.

>>63969005 (OP)
Japanese warrior classes were primarily archers. Even today, kyudo is culturally important to Japan. Mounted samurai archers were tremendously effective in warfare and it wasn't until cannons that the Japanese learned the errors of their ways.
The Portuguese only sold Japan firearms to try and conquer the island and convert it to Catholicism.

>>63970812
>injuns


According to early accounts, slaves traveling on a slave ship revolted and took the ship over, but wrecked it near Cape Gracias a Dios, though they disagree on the impact the arrival of these Africans had on the local people, and how they were received. When Alexander Exquemelin, the first and earliest visitor (in c 1671) to the coast to describe the origins of the Miskito Sambu believed that the local people enslaved the Africans anew

>>63970525
>>63970672
>>63970812
>3 posts
>all of them choose the "Ethiopians aren't really black" argument
>none address the other two examples in the same post
Man, you've all become boring. Did the evangelists who brought you into this not teach you what to say here?

>>63970831
I keep hearing this but do we have any actual physical evidence of them preferring mounted archery or perhaps a type of dragoon-like mobile archer as their preferred mode of warfare? I've looked all over but haven't been able to find a source for this. Admittedly I can't interpret the moon-runes so I might just be retarded but can anybody actually cite this other than "shit I once read in a book?"

>>63970812
>>63970812
>Not even what I was referring to, you are reaching. Also questionable application of the word "significant" however I didn't define the term so I suppose its my own fault.

They took half of Central America away from the Spanish Empire, ruled it for 200 years, and are the main reason why there are no Coastal cities in Central America and why the region has a high percentage of Black DNA from them raping so much. Yep your just coping I see

>>63969414
>the only people immune to bread and circuses.
>Anglos
As a Pict I can't help but laugh at this. They are literally responsible for the creation of our modern forms of bread and circuses. If you take away an Anglo's BBC and soccer he will burn his own house down.

> took half of Central America away from the Spanish Empire
>not black
>expats and locals vastly outnumber loyalists
> elite classes are mixed to this day

Look you need to try fucking harder. Also these are "weak" Meds not heartless cruel reapers of lives ala >>63969262

I mean could you imagine of Cortez as at the head of 10k Landsknechts rather that a gaggle of Iberian convicts and local auxiliary? They'd be digging up gold dipped skulls to this day.

>>63969343
>Native Americans
>bad draw of the geography card
You can't be serious. Even for a cope this is delusional. Never mind that blaming geography is just meaningless deflection, as peoples with the will and know how migrated to better places. Various migrations in African history, many as late as the early 20th century, demonstrate that they had the intelligence to move around within Africa, just not enough to think of moving out of it.

>>63970857
The historical fact that samurai had armor specifically for defense against arrows while on horseback suggests that in some period in time mounted horseback skirmishers were the META.

>>63970951
That's like looking at a union cavalry officer and saying guns most of not been meta in the civil war as his uniform did nothing to protect him from bullets.

>>63970929
>Look you need to try fucking harder. Also these are "weak" Meds not heartless cruel reapers of lives ala
Done

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Maroon_War

>>63970905
We're referring to hicks in America as the "purest anglos" in a joking manner. Motherfuckers are utterly insane and I weep for the future if they really are the only people still fucking. If they inherent the world; culture, civilization, and humanity ends. And what replaces it is unrelating misery and hate which knows no end. These fuckers just do no care about ordinary human considerations; I watched one discard his own daughter for the crime of contracting cancer. To them everyone is an expendable asset to be burned, especially themselves. I'm convinced they are some type of killer ape which just looks white.

IQs off the charts sure. But deep down they all want to murder the world just to hear the screams.

>>63970929
>>not black
Do even know what a zambo is....

>>63970032
>The empire was so decentralized that it was an empire in name only.
Centralization isn't what makes and empire an empire.

>>63970929
Okay. The Haitian Revolution. They fought the armies of Napoleon, headed by Napoleon's own kin, and won, then immediately turned around and conquered the Spanish side of the island.
This had the effect of removing a significant financial base from France during Napoleon's wars and killed their North American ambitions, causing them to sell the Louisiana territory to the USA.
>>63970946
>Never mind that blaming geography is just meaningless deflection, as peoples with the will and know how migrated to better places. Various migrations in African history, many as late as the early 20th century, demonstrate that they had the intelligence to move around within Africa, just not enough to think of moving out of it.
>Mali, 1312.
>Every Berber group west of the Ayr Massif.
>Aksum.
And moving out isn't even necessary. Immediately after the Brazil colonization attempt failed, Musa went to the heart of the Islamic world and broadcast the country's riches to attract talent, allowing them to get around their own geography's limitations.

>>63970973
>Okay. The Haitian Revolution.
That is a terrible example for your own case as not only did they only succeed when outnumber opponents 20 to 1 the lost to the fucking Dominicans repeatedly even with those odds on their side.

Just give up the ghost please. Ironically enough I don't even want to kill darkies, but after moving to rural America I know hundreds of hick assholes who do, if reality continues to be denied they are going to get off their chains and then nobody will be happy about it except them. That's why I post the joking images of Chaos Marines because I have heard the most vile murderous shit spew from the mouths of men who were just hugging and cuddling half a dozen little kids a moment before. They honestly want to murder billions of people and totally segregate that sentiment from something they did seconds before. They simply do not give a shit, I don't think they are just being edgy I know one of them has killed darkies "just because".

>>63971016
>>63970963
>That is a terrible example for your own case as not only did they only succeed when outnumber opponents 20 to 1

HMMM

>>63971016
>That is a terrible example for your own case as not only did they only succeed when outnumber opponents 20 to 1
Most of those were civilians and irregulars, facing down France's finest soldiers during their military height.
Funny how you only addressed the one where you thought you had a point.
>Just give up the ghost please. Ironically enough I don't even want to kill darkies, but after moving to rural America I know hundreds of hick assholes who do
And? They've always wanted that. They've always been that way. That's not something anything can fix. I'm not impressed.
Instead of begging for us to concede an argument you weren't ready for, reconsider your position and figure out what's wrong with it so you don't job so hard next time.

>>63971028
>hmmm
>civilians fled
>conflict without official accounting
Yeah that isn't the "gotcha" you seem to think it is. That said they were still weak because they weren't monsters who immediately ate the darkies alive like slavering werewolves. How is Hatti doing now bye the way, is this the 9th time the US has rebuilt it with no tangible long term results or the 10th? As much as I lament them sometimes I wish they were unleashed just to watch the leftists, commies, thurdies, ect lament as they are actually cannibalized by human monsters. I really want them to grasp how monstrous real monsters are. Not the adhoc cannibalism of Haitians but to the point where there are marketeers deciding how much a pound of human flesh is worth on a national market, and they are ignored because the law is worth the paper it is printed on.

>>63969414
>They are the rock of the eternal shore, the only people immune to bread and circuses.
Nah dawg, we're all fucktarded and collectively absolutely will fall for the next Glownigger Psy-Op.

>>63971091
>facing down France's finest soldiers during their military height.
Bullshit.

>Instead of begging for us to concede an argument you weren't ready for, reconsider your position and figure out what's wrong with it so you don't job so hard next time.
You're materially incorrect nigger. Your entire posting style speaks of "Yakub marrying the conehead princess from the center of earth" levels of negro alt-history.

>>63971137
>Bullshit.
They were sailed over straight from France proper, having been trained by LeClerc.
Or what, are you going to say they had to have been born, bred, and baptized in Notre Dame specifically to count?
>Your entire posting style
You haven't been able to refute a single thing. Stop posting already. You're an embarrassment.

>>63971091
>They've always wanted that.
Yeah "they" always wanted it and the congenitally liberal whites, jews, ect always inhibited them. When they couldn't they exterminated the aboriginal population of the America's without effort and inspect of active governmental(crown and republic) interference. Those populations are dying while they continue to breed and even you don't. Darkie they will gut you and flay your children while laughing about it. They are racially superior but also monsters, stop antagonizing them. It's like poking a rabid dog, what the fuck is wrong with you? Are you really this prideful or merely retarded?

>>63971105
>>conflict without official accounting

https://digitalcollections.nypl.org/items/510d47da-7152-a3d9-e040-e00a18064a99

You now have painting and the Treaties peace, along with reports from British troops on the island.Yep I think I won

>>63971105
https://digitalcollections.nypl.org/items/510d47da-7152-a3d9-e040-e00a18064a99

You now have paintings and the Peace Treaties, along with reports from British troops on the island. Yep, I think I won.

>gun thread
>look inside
>/pol/ containment thread

>>63971154
>refuting dumb claims on the internet is "antagonizing"
>we're supposed to abandon truth because southerners might get just enough control of the government to do the things they claim they don't
>implying any of this is new

>>63969285
Kino pic

>>63970903
>worst region in the world is the place where africans just raped everyone
lmao
Also, isn't that shit all mountains?

>>63970946
Yeah the Americas had bad geography. Corn is shit without modern irrigation and lead to like multiple famine based collapses across continents, not to mention it's not as nutritional as wheat or rice. This lead to vast swathes of the continent unable to form anything other than seasonally settled civilizations, which all got fucking annihilated by wild pigs. There was barely any livestock, not to mention no resistance to the boatload of old world endemic diseases

I realize this is a /pol/ argument and I'm going to lose by virtue of not being racist. But I do also want to say that there's a world in which certain regions can just have had shittier luck, and that the west has done a lot right. The euros didn't conquer the world because they just had better plants, they also developed the instational and moral frameworks required to advance technologically and socially ahead of the rest of the world. Understanding what held other places back can help us better understand how our society came about and the potential pitfalls that lie ahead. Also just flatly claiming we're better than the rest is how you get into a Russo-Japanese war or end up like China who shut themselves out of the world and squandered their lead.

>>63969350
>better gun than euro
>most of their gun are straight copy from Euro, especially the French
>got obsoleted when the yank came with their Garand and belt-fed machine gun

>>63971749
>JAP WEAPONS DESTROYED
Lame, they shoulda been brought home as war trophies.

>>63969350
They didn’t have flintlocks ,wheelocks or guns that could fire without the use of a burning match cord while Europeans did

>>63971797
My dad gave me an arisaka his dad bought from a vet that sporterized it. Its a piece of shit last ditch rifle that sat in a depot through the whole war. I can tell because they defaced the chrysanthemum emblem on the top which was done at the end to avoid having the symbol of the emperor shamed by being taken by non japs.

>>63969381
If you read primary sources the chink cavalry were unbeatable until the japs holed up in forts. Granted the japs were a mainly infantry force and have always had shitty horses

>>63970857
Read a book faggot. This is basic stuff

>>63970958
Arrows were effective enough that samurai had arrow specific armor to protect them from archers.
In Japan the primary weapons were the Yari and the Yumi and their women could often use both.
Samurai were master archers and in the warring states period and beyond, horseback archery was preferred until the tanegashima but those werent universally adopted.

>>63971797
Don't forget the centuries-old swords they dumped in the ocean because golems have no concept of history or culture.

>>63969598
YWNBW

>>63969231
No one said they were, the fact is the Japanese advanced immensely quickly and became a world power within 2 generations. They were by no means incapable of modernizing like some of southern Asia, they had primitive firearms solely due to the policy of sakoku that closed the country off for 250 straight years.

>>63972932
They became a regional power, but half of that was because China had vacated it's traditional place as regional hegemon in East Asia. The apex of Japanese power was a period of under 4 years, when they went on a smash and grab campaign in 41-45, while the actual world powers were occupied elsewhere, when the actual world powers turned their attention to Japan they were crushed by biblical proportions.

>>63969207
racial determinism is a myth

>>63972945
>but half of that was because China had vacated it's traditional place as regional hegemon in East Asia.
That was centuries earlier. One of the first things the modernized Japan did was kick Chinese butt. First on their own, then as part of the Eight Nation Alliance. Then they humiliated Russia, something the Ottoman Empire had failed to achieve.

>>63972718
shalom

>>63974252
If the preservation of historical artifacts is Jewish then call me rabbi

>>63969064
Asia cannot into flintlock weapons due to a general lack of flint, so they stuck with matchlock weapons instead.

>>63975052
that's not why I posted that and you know it, fag

>>63975070
Asia has chert which, for all intents and purposes, can fulfill the same roles that flint does.
So as interesting as that theory is it can't be the reason.

>>63969010
This.
The Tokugawa Shogunate and its consequences have been a disaster for the Japanese race.

>>63969343
>were enslaved in their own homeland
Africans were enslaving each other before Europeans arrived, selling slaves to Europeans after they arrived, and are still practicing slavery to this day.

>>63969381
>but they btfo'd the Koreans and Chinese
The Chinese kicked them out of Pyongyang so hard they abandoned everything north of Hanseong. By the end of the war they were relegated to a southeast Korea and despite winning defensive sieges they were dead set on withdrawing.

>historiography presents the whole affair as a naval war
Naval warfare has been overstated by modern Korean scholarship, if you examine Yi Sunshin's role in the war you find that he was heavily restricted by limited manpower and did not have the means to harass the main Japanese supply line.

>>63972013
They weren't unbeatable they just had to resort to an overwhelming numerical disparity, considering the bulk of their troops were from Western Japan they neither had the experience nor the cavalry to perform at a higher level. If the Japanese ever got past Korea they were doomed if they had to fight a combined war wagon/cavalry Chinese army that numbered in the low tens of thousands.

>>63969010
>>63969045
Without the tokugawa shogunate japan would have been anexed like the philippines