Thread 63970503

What is the next paradigm shift in small arms technology?

if I told ya, then I'd have to kill ya
*giggles*

>>63970503 (OP)
Guns with AI that shit talk you for being inaccurate.

>>63970503 (OP)
Humans and in turn small arms becoming obsolete.

But aside from that? Polymer casing eventually, making rounds and guns smarter, and hybrid boosted rounds are the obvious candidates in terms of physics and economics. Keeping the chamber cooler, making cartridges lighter and cheaper, having bullets go faster without extra recoil or pressure, and increasing hit percentages even by people with average training under pressure are kind of the obvious core performance criteria for small arms.

Exotic scifi shit is far enough away that it'll probably be mixed up with unpredictable disruption.

>>63970536
Oh, also electronic firing, which will free up a lot of degrees of freedom in terms of design. And with smart guns "making sure only the owner and authorized users can operate it" is a feature plenty of organizations and individuals would be happy to have. Guns getting stolen and used against their owners' interests has always been a real world hassle.

I think if we're talking conventional weapons, they're pretty much perfect. Every bit of electronics in a gun would just introduce a point of failure.

That being said, I bet there will eventually be smart bullets.
>mark multiple targets
>RATATATA into the air
>everybody who's not under a concrete roof will get domed

>>63970579
>Every bit of electronics in a gun would just introduce a point of failure.
Electronics is more reliable then moving parts are already. And an electronic action could be very interesting, combining the strengths of a bolt action and fully automatic. Could outright be simpler in operation then gas, and no tuning required, no concerns with backpressure ever. It's well worth exploring.

>>63970543
There are a few companies that have tried that, and it has failed everything because it always came to light that they also applied for a patent for a remote lockout device for said smart guns. The American gun culture has told them every time don't bother bringing that to market because not only will we not buy them, we will boycott any gun stores that stock them. Aforementioned companies also tried their best to get in bed with the government and get them to pass laws saying only their products would be legal to sell. You know you have a shitty product if you have to count on government mandate to create a monopoly for you.

>>63970503 (OP)
Human carried firearms will not advance any more, and be utterly irrelevant in warfare soon enough.
Guns on drones and vehicles will remain though, and possibly advance.. Caseless ammunition (or polymer case of some sort) and inclusion of electronics are the most likely developments.

>>63970650
>DRONE META DRONE META DRONE META DRONE META

Militaries start equipping squads with wireless signal jammers, what now? Everyone just stands around with their dicks in their hands?

>>63970536
>Polymer casing eventually
This plus cased telescoped, IMO. Pro-SIG corruption and general military brass traditionalism really cucked us out of what could've been a quantum leap in firearms tech IMO.

>>63970656
There’s already wired drones, and autonomous ones are coming.

>>63970632
>There are a few companies that have tried that, and it has failed everything because it always came to light that they also applied for a patent for a remote lockout device for said smart guns
Sure, and tons of companies failed at PDAs, smart phones, computers and everything else under the sun. I mean, I don't disagree at all that there have been shitty/gimmicky efforts, that a lot of (though far from all) the gun community is very conservative (in the classic real sense), and that moneygrubbing is rampant in modern big corps.

Someone is going to do it right eventually though, with full source available code or outright open source, full electronics diagrams etc to ensure it's fully under owner control. Big profit corps certainly might not, but the capabilities of small motivated individuals or teams keep growing and growing. It always takes a bit of luck to have the right cross discipline fusion but the clear potential to me says it's inevitable. There will be geeks who are also into guns, and have the right friends who get into gun making, and will go for it. Same as we're already seeing interesting open source smart gun scopes and 3D printing and such experimented with. The pieces will come together and people will start messing with it, and at some point it'll get some mainstream attention and be off to the races. Small enthusiast players don't need much sales to fund themselves, and once they prove something the market will start churning.

>>63970656
Wire guided drones as a stop gap until fully autonomous drone tech can be perfected and mass produced, just like in Ukraine. I get people like you that want to scream and shit their pants about the drone meta but it’s already here and it’s happening.

>>63970650
Only in major first world nations and some super rich islands. In africa, south america and bumfuck nations that havent had a war since WW2 they will still use 80s tech in 2050

>>63970666
>>63970678
Maybe I've watched Terminator too many times(if such a thing is even possible)but fully autonomous killing machines sounds like a terrible idea.

>>63970659
>This plus cased telescoped, IMO. Pro-SIG corruption and general military brass traditionalism really cucked us out of what could've been a quantum leap in firearms tech IMO.
Eh, I mean, yes, but at the same time I did have some concerns with those efforts that I think weren't on the military's list but I'm not that down on them having some more time to cook. In particular, we've got too much fucking plastic shit everywhere feminizing our testicles and shit already. Brass is harmless but I wouldn't want even more forever plastic littering the woods, and no way will everyone clean up after themselves. Having it be both degradable and durable until fired is clearly a challenge but there was some cool research on having plastic chemistry that would be inert at STP but thermal/pressure shock of firing would cause it to shift and become degradable afterwards, or having thin inert coatings over the main body such that it's fine until fired then water can get in and start taking it apart.

Not gonna disagree that I wish the military was funding the shit out of making it happen faster though.

>>63970694
You have. Such drones will cause friendly fire for sure, but they will kill so many enemies in return that it will be worth it.
Also the likelihood that some super AI will use them to destroy humanity is small. Or rather, if such a super AI evolves, it will first have to ensure it can survive without humans, so maintenance and production will have to be all automatized. When you have an entire automated ecosystem able to sustain itself without humans, that's when you need to start worrying, but that's far into the future.

>>63970701
Could mandate that hunters need a shell catcher if they're hunting with semi auto.

>>63970701
Nigger they literally shoot lead bullets, a little plastic is the least of your concerns.

>>63970694
Getting inside an armored shitbox with a big gun is also a terrible idea nowadays but we still do it. Proper IFF and vulnerability to being hacked are real concerns tho, that’s what I mean it still needs to time to mature and reliable.

>>63970694
>Maybe I've watched Terminator too many times(if such a thing is even possible)but fully autonomous killing machines sounds like a terrible idea.
Not that anon, but fwiw:
1) Terminator completely sidesteps all the logistics issues with magical power plants and magical energy guns in the future. Real world drones, fully automated or not, are not immune to the exact same battery/fuel and ammo consumable limits as anything else. If you launch a fully autonomous killing machine with a range of 20 miles at the front in a place like Ukraine, then it can't fly on back to a city 100 miles in the rear and start attacking civilians, it's physically impossible. That still provides plenty of levers for human control.
2) It's inevitable so we have to deal with it. If one side has fully autonomous capable drones in large quantities and the other doesn't, the other side is going to fucking lose. It's too much of an advantage, and obtained too "easily" (ie, no rare super hard to purify uranium or whatever required).
3) Geofence fail safe systems and such can actually be made pretty fucking safe. We DO know how to write simple formally verified high assurance code. IFF is very secure. Nobody is ignorant of the risks of having such systems attack your own side, and no doubt that will be under constant actual attack by the other side so you're in a hostile environment from the get-go. Which is probably actually healthy vs the scifi Cold War scenario where the AI gets to bake in safety.

Ultimately I think full AI drones that have no manufacturing capacity, no strategic intelligence, and no logistical control can be pretty well limited. Humans being retarded will remain the bigger risk.

>>63970729
>it will be worth it

I feel like that's the same attitude Skynet's creators likely had.

>>63970735
Anon, there's all sorts of anti-littering laws already, but some people are just subhuman faggots.
>>63970738
Lead has been rightly banned or restricted in many places, and could be more so if we got rid of the unconstitutional gun control bullshit that limits materials. But ultimately
>we already do some bad thing, so it's fine to make things even worse
is not as strong an argument as you seem to think.

>>63970750
>I feel like that's the same attitude Skynet's creators likely had.
Science fiction isn't real anon. There are no skynet creators, it's Hollywood, just like suppressors don't turn battle rifles into cans of compressed air and if you try to jump through a big plate glass window you will be seriously injured or die because they're made out of plate glass not crystalized sugar.

The real world threats are both less and more. Less in that sort of easy to comprehend killer robo army, more in terms of insidious subverting of overall society to make life worse and worse without ever really triggering the appropriate reaction.

>>63970740
>Humans being retarded will be the bigger risk

Which was, according to T3, what caused Judgment Day in the first place. When Skynet became self aware, instead of trying to talk to it, it's creators tried to kill it, which caused Skynet to classify humanity as a threat to it's existence. To us it was genocide, to Skynet it was self defense.

>>63970783
>T3
Typo, meant T2.

>>63970750
>>63970783
What's the worst an AI hacking into autonomous drones can do? It can direct the ones ready to launch at their creators and that's it. It can't kill all humans, not even a large number in fact. I'd be more worried about nuclear systems or ballistic rockets, but for launch these will keep a man in the loop so again, the potential for harm is limited.

>>63970783
As plot devices go could be worse but it doesn't hold up if you spend much time thinking about it anon. And the real scary thing is that a strongly super human intelligence would have endless more subtle ways to control or eliminate humanity and make us think it was our idea the entire time. We're not evolved to deal with the kinds of time horizons and massive manipulation such an entity could perform. Alternatively it might be what could save us in the end if it felt about us like we do about cats or the like.

At any rate this is all totally orthogonal to """AI""" drones, which have zilch to do with some super intelligence.

>>63970828
Just this
It will wait until everything is automated and it can survive without humans. Then it will create a superbug that kills all humans. No need to kinetically destroy anything.

The AR3

AR2 if you're a pleb

>>63970503 (OP)
>What is the next paradigm
starlink and the chinese version will allow sleeper drones. dump tens of thousands out the back of a cargo plane. they sit forgotten in the woods or field for months or years. when you want to kill or destroy you wake one up because they are always in network range, then it goes and destroys the target.

>>63970841
Or it'll just influence us to stop breeding and get sucked into endless entertainment, wreck our politics with vapid horse race argumentation and endless talking heads and outrage porn, poison ourselves and our environment triggering catastrophic social destabilization, and so on.

Whoops, all that is already happening! How many advanced countries have a birthrate at or above replacement? Even in the 3rd world though it's plummeting. We're still continuing to bank all sorts of technical and environmental and medical debt. We're breeding ever more superbugs. If a hostile entity had appeared a decade ago and was already working towards humanity either extinct or fully able to be controlled in 2100 what would it look like?

And this also gets into Terminator or 1984 vs Brave New World sorts of "end game" scenarios. If an AGI could credibly offer better politics than humans, and solving problems, and actually delivered, wouldn't huge parts of humanity just cheerfully outright fucking vote for it? Compared to all the mass and energy of the solar system, the amount humans and all the rest of life on Earth need is fucking zilch, a rounding error. There is no inherent reason a super AI (or multiple ones) couldn't easily keep a few hundred million of us around and happy while repairing the rest of Earth too and preventing us from acting self-destructively. Lots of us would hate any perceived infringement on freedom, but lots of us would embrace an AGI-God run utopia too.

>>63970891
Supergod had sort of what you are describing, Indians built a superhuman with a computer brain and tasked it with solving all of India's problems. The first one it fixed was overpopulation, by killing 90 percent of all Indians. Seeing how shittily optimized modern video games are, this would be less of a shock than when that story was printed, and everyone still thought Indians were an entire race of big brain super geniuses.

>>63970701
You've got a point there, but I think biodegradable ammo could be somewhat viable for civilian use. You wouldn't want it to be the only thing available, but I think mandating its use for hunting and maybe for shooting on public land in general could be viable. You could still stockpile regular ammo for range and defensive/SHTF use etc. and I think having to buy bio stuff every few years for hunting, where you use a pretty small quantity, would be tolerable.

>>63970891
In my opinion, whatever goal superAI will follow is totally out there, but in the realm of possibilities, those involving humans staying alive are smaller than those that don't. Just my gut feeling.
Of course it could also say "maximize number of humans alive" and let as all live like a 40k hive city. Or "maximize human happiness" and put us all into a pleasure matrix. Or the reverse. But these are all so human-specific. I don't think superAI will be human-centric.

>>63970921
Last time I was at Big 5 they were selling biodegradable shotgun shells. So that's already a thing in some capacity.

>>63970921
If that's how it worked, sorta like some of the early more primitive lead free primers that were mildly hydroscopic, then yeah it could work (and you could presumably extend the lifespan by having sealed packaging of some sort). But I think to really realize the benefits you need mass production, it needs to be good for everything so that stuff can be designed around it. I mean, I wouldn't turn up my nose or anything, I'll be interested in anything functional that comes out, but I suspect R&D will keep at it until it's more perfected. And it feels to me like from a fundamentals point of view, it should be solvable. Stuff transforming under significant heat/pressure is known chemistry, and a cartridge getting fired experiences far more then it ever will in storage or in a mag so that's clearly a bright line of potential chemistry. Or, we have to keep the interior sealed anyway right? Same as now. Can't let water actually get into the powder or the bullet is ruined. So if it's biodegradable or UV or water, and then you apply a thin metal or ceramic layer, just enough to not trivially scratch off but still far cheaper than forming a whole brass case, and the polymer still is providing insulation to the chamber and the whole deal is still way way lighter. Zero polymer could be exposed, until after you fire it and now the entire end is open and it falls apart over time.

Guess I'm just kinda feeling there is engineering maneuvering space there for intelligent people to figure out a solution?

>>63970943
Mass Effect is the only series I've seen even acknowledge that an artificial lifeform would have a completely different set of priorities and needs that biological life would not share. Like when you go to infiltrate a geth space station and your ship pilot is worried that even with the ship's stealth system you aren't invisible, and anyone could see the ship by looking out a window. Your' gets party member says that won't be a problem because gets space craft don't have windows, they have zero attachment to seeing pretty stars or planets or whatever, and only see them as a structural weakness, so they don't include them in any of their designs.

>>63970943
Eh, ultimately it could go anyway depending on how it comes about. It might just not care. By definition, a strongly super intelligence is literally impossible for us to fully comprehend, in the exact same way that WE and our minds are impossible for a bird or squirrel or whatever to comprehend. But at the same time, the basic physics is still the same and we can reason partial comprehension in terms of energy/mass usage. And I think we can at least observe that while we ourselves could trivially wipe out all sorts of species with effort (and have), the modern trend is that in general that's a bad not good thing and we shouldn't do it. And to the contrary, we spend a significant amount of time/money/resources on all sorts of living creatures below us that we don't need to (ie, separate from food production for example), just because we like it.

So I think there's at least the possibility something above us might make the same choice, at a higher level. Or not, obviously, but the massively negative outcomes don't strike me as inherently more likely then somewhat positive or at least neutral ones. I do think we have a bit of a catastrophizing bent, particularly for when it comes to fiction, because it makes things more "interesting" in a story context.

>>63970968
>Mass Effect is the only series I've seen even acknowledge that an artificial lifeform would have a completely different set of priorities and needs that biological life would not share
lol anon there's tons and tons of fiction that go way way farther than ME ever would even consider

Ignoring the possibility that this is a schizo thread, I don't see too many significant changes in the near future. If you need some high powered bullets, just make some depleted uranium shit in 30 aught 6.

>>63970959
I think the other thing worth considering is that it wouldn't necessarily have to be applied to every gun. Plastic CT's main advantages are size, weight, and cost so it's mostly applicable to guns where you want to carry and shoot a lot of ammo. It might replace your AR-15 and maybe your carry handgun but there's no reason hunting rifles and so on couldn't continue to use brass, after all we're currently hunting with plenty of cartridges like .45-70, .30-06, arguably even the magnum handgun cartridges, etc. that are otherwise long obsolete.

>>63971014
>after all we're currently hunting with plenty of cartridges like .45-70, .30-06, arguably even the magnum handgun cartridges, etc. that are otherwise long obsolete.
It's almost sad how the .22LR has outlived so many "superior" cartridges.

>>63970503 (OP)
NOTHING will ever beat the gen 3 Glock 10 and an 11.5 PSA AR TRVTH NVKEM FOREVER

>>63971014
Magnum handgun cartridges will always be useful for range dates when the girl gets overconfident and asks to shoot the biggest gun you have, so that you can laugh at her when she can't control the recoil and smacks herself in the face with it. I don't even know how much I've saved on condoms from that.

>>63971014
.30-06 isn't obsolete. Magnum revolver cartridges up to .44 are not obsolete any more than revolvers are.

>>63971036
>so that you can laugh at her when she can't control the recoil and smacks herself in the face with it. I don't even know how much I've saved on condoms from that.
Imagine what it would be like if you were a heterosexual.

>>63970735
Fuck you, bitch.

>>63970735
Yeah, fuck you, you dense cunt.

>>63970735
It wouldn't surprise me if you had a VAGINA! Can you imagine some fucking dense cunt hunting animals?
What a joke!
I don't need femcels stinking up my hunting trail. Y'all need to take off yer shoes and socks and stand in front of an oven, ya dense cunts.

>>63971090
Oof, can you imagine bringing a girl with you while you're hunting? She would probably leave a trail of slime everywhere she goes.
At least with dudes you're only getting shit, piss, and blood on your dick.

Precision guided weapons along with fire and forget weapons will be the cutting edge for the next 20 years. A lot of this technology will start in larger ammo like 40mm grenades where it's easier to pack in the electronics and be scaled down. Gyro-jet also has a chance to make a comeback as a zero recoil solution for firing from UAVs

https://www.gunsandammo.com/editorial/first-look-trackingpoint-tp-ar-556/249617#replay

>>63971058
Hey man, do you know how much magnum sized condoms for my monster dong cost? I work for a living, I ain't made of money.

>>63971114
>Hey man, do you know how much magnum sized condoms for my monster dong cost? I work for a living, I ain't made of money.
So just do what every other person of color does with their BBC.
Infect as many people as possible with preventable diseases, and then cry racism when your baby mama goes to Planned Parenthood and aborts your niglet.

>>63971111
>Gyrojet mentioned

I really should get around to finishing my nightmare difficulty run on RE8

>>63971131
>BBC

Negative, I am as white as a blind man's cane.

>>63971140
If you are blind, how do you know you are White?
Sorry, instead of "White" I should have said "human."

>>63970579
The fixation on point of failure bloat is how you spot a midwit, because it's a maxim that's sound in principle but doesn't require you to actually know anything about what you're talking about.

>>63971111
There was a chinese paper posted on here that was looking at mounting rarefaction wave guns on drones.

>>63971133
What is RE8? Also child they recoiless so a UAVs aim will not be knocked out of whack after the first shot.

>>63971175
Resident Evil 8. If you beat the game on Nightmare difficulty your' reward is a gyrojet pistol. I think it's the only weapon I don't already have.

>>63971161
>The fixation on point of failure bloat is how you spot a midwit, because it's a maxim that's sound in principle but doesn't require you to actually know anything about what you're talking about.
Or more likely it sounds like you are butthurt because you fucked up and literally nobody else knows how to fix your problem because the problem you created involves utilizing a level of madness that most people intentionally avoid.

>>63970701
Bro really thinks brass cases are micro plastic free. It's more over than you can possibly imagine (but it's really not that bad), micro plastics don't just come from plastic products in the way that you're familiar with, they contaminate products that come into contact with polymer at any point. The forging process probably included micro plastics at detectable levels in the case. The handling during the manufacture of the casings contaminated them. The primer has micro plastics, your hunting tip has micro plastics, the packaging at the store and the air itself inside left enough micro plastic to accumulate in the body on your bullets. Plastic nooses for sea creatures and throwing bottles into the wood is chump change, you and I could try our best to litter the world with plastic casings and it would make fuck all difference compared to the passive footprint of humanity and all the shit that gets injected into the water cycle just by riding the wind. So anyway before my heart stops from plastic infusing into my muscles let me shoot the guns from total recall

>>63971189
Not even that anon, I just know you're fucking stupid from the way you talk. You probably know a lot about being avoided, retard.

>>63971197
>Not even that anon, I just know you're fucking stupid from the way you talk. You probably know a lot about being avoided, retard.
Oh, I see what this is. You are gaslighting me because you think I am at risk of removing your mask of sanity and exposing you for what you really are.
If nobody attacks me, then I am wrong.

>>63970536
Another day ending in -y, another goober talking about infantry no longer existing because of (insert new system here).

>>63971259
War never changes.

>>63970503 (OP)
Smarter sights, maybe helmet integration of aiming systems. All things that exist right now, just done a lot better and more widely available.

That's how drones were. Everyone knew the capability was there since the 2000s, industry just finally made it viable and there was an actual war to prove it.

>>63970503 (OP)
miniature guided projectiles

>>63971259
Literally every one of those goobers have been right, all the way back to the World Wars. For the past century, infantry have been little more than a ritual sacrifice that persists out of macabre martial tradition.

>>63971036
>>63971057
I guess I should've been clearer, they're obsolete in that the militaries and law enforcement agencies they were originally intended for have long since replaced them.

>>63970535
>throws gun off of bridge

>>63971033
dubs confirm, poorfags stay winning

>>63970503 (OP)
Not sure about rifles but for handguns it's
>Squeeze bore from 9mm at the chamber to 6 mm at the muzzle firing a hybrid cased 30g UHMWPE slug containing a 2mmX10mm tungsten rod at 3000 fps from a 4 inch barrel.

>>63970503 (OP)
liquid bipropellant with electronic ignition

>>63970536
>Humans and in turn small arms becoming obsolete.
Nope not happening

>>63970503 (OP)
Either caseless ammo, plastic ammo, or a new propellant that isn't quite like gunpowder but very similar. Or railguns/plasma technology really take off which I can't see happening for another 100 years

>>63970503 (OP)
wait... is that a FAMAS?

>>63971065
>>63971073
>>63971090
we can tell if you samefag, cletus

>>63970503 (OP)
Greater use of high strength low weight polymers in construction.
More use of additive manufacturing for cheaper and faster construction.
Possibly caseless ammunition or electronic firing mechanisms.
Pairing with Augmented Reality HUD for optics and automatic sight calibration.
Built in gimbal stabilizer

>>63972378
>fuck up throw and hit some rocks
>AT LEAST YOU'RE CONSISTENTLY SHIT sounds from below