Thread 63972119

Oh no no no it happened again sigger sisters!

buy me a new dick ron cohen

no i didn't shoot it off but my moms dr jewed my foreskin

>>63972119 (OP)
I know it's always two more weeks with sig but i think we're really gonna see some fallout/further crashout soon
there's rumblings of them holding up 320 shipments and don't forget about the FBI study releasing too
The "big one" would be the military contract getting pulled. Those losers base their entire identity on mhs. I would love to see it happen this year
P320s are already about $300 used, the internet is absolutely littered with them. lol lmao

>>63972194
Beretta may have fixed the M9 tests but at least the guns worked. Sig thought they could do the same AND cut corners but no, they flew too close to the sun and their wings had a unexpected detachment.

>>63972119 (OP)
Sig can't keep getting away with this. How the fuck are people still defending that (((firearms manufacturer)))?

I'm faping to you in your dreams!

>>63972119 (OP)
>bullet trajectory upwards
ND is right

>>63972289
I missed this bot the most. Now if only the custard mouth sherbet Egyptian goose schizo comes back

>>63972292
It's well with you within your doubts.

>>63972119 (OP)
off topic post, what blew up this ti-
>it happened again
>rumors of shipments cancelled
>another retard blew their balls off a few days ago
oh, that's what blew up!

>>63972119 (OP)
Siggers have 109 NDs but it's always the user's fault.

>>63972290
The guy says in a subsequent tweet that he removed the pistol in the holster from his pants when he sat down and thinks brushing or hitting his seatbelt with it made it go off.

>>63972325
I will accept every sigger having an IQ of less than 30 as a concession

>>63972383
Yeah sure

Surely someone can point out the obvious defect that links all these incidents by now

>>63972119 (OP)
how come theres been this gigantic wave of 320 discharges recently, we've known about the problems with the 320 for years now but i feel like recently its gotten worse

>>63972526
I don't want to be a conspiracy nutjob, but I do think a lot of people are doing it for attention and/or to spite Sig. Not even the FBI could figure out how it was happening, which doesn't really add up. Like, we can make jokes all day but there's no way that we just can't tell how it's happening.

>>63972519
Ian McCollum did it in his video about the sig issue. Basically, the p320 hammer is always under full tension. This means that if the gun has any other problem that makes the hammer drop, it will always cause an uncommanded discharge. Glocks don't have this problem because their internal hammer is under half tension; the user brings it up to full tension with a trigger pull. Sig made the p320 have a full tension hammer all the time because it made the trigger nicer.

>>63972546
Practically every other striker fired pistol on the market is fully cocked, that's just straight up a lie Also the Glock's striker is already tensioned enough to ignite primers without the additional cocking of the trigger pull, that's been tested and proven.

>>63972546
Timney triggers fully cock the Glock striker and it doesn't go off that's cap

>>63972292
Lol I remember that guy.

>>63972526
Maybe more people know about it and therefore people who would previously be embarrassed thinking it was their fault are now posting their incidents instead of keeping quiet? Just a theory, maybe a longshot.

>>63972546
>Internal hammer

>>63972557
Stop lying, man. Glocks will only light strike if the hammer drops. Glock specifically tensions their hammer springs so that they cannot hit the primer with enough force to fire in the event of a malfunction.

>>63972587
1. It's not a hammer
2. Glocks are intentionally oversprung to make them make more ammo go bang.
3. You can easily find idiots monkeying with these parts and setting bullets off without additional cocking.

>>63972587
Even if what you're saying about the safe action trigger was true, and it's not, Timney and other aftermarket triggers change how the Glock cocks in order to improve the feel of the trigger. It explicitly says that too, and yet this doesn't happen. Btw the PDP is also fully cocked and has a better trigger than both

>>63972604
>Glocks are intentionally oversprung
No, they are half sprung. I told you this already. Ian will tell you the same thing in his excellent video that explains the design deficiency of the p320.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3iWVs2uD1XY
>Glock strikers are half tension
>A malfunction that releases the striker will result in a light primer strike.
>A trigger pull will fully tension the striker and fire the bullet, as intended.
>Sig p320 triggers are full tension all the time
>So any striker release caused by loose tolerances or dropping the gun will always cause a discharge
>The p320 is a fundamentally less safe design than a glock because it lacks failsafe mechanisms to prevent a discharge when the striker drops without the trigger being pulled.

Sig ND's are proven user error. They don't ND by themselves, it's a complete myth.

>>63972631
Then he is also wrong in his assessment, not just in this particular instance, but in his understanding of striker fired pistols in general

>>63972631
>>63972546
The PDP, the M&P, the Echelon, the 509, and even shitty bargin brands like Rugers and Tauruses are fully cocked. I don't care what that mother fucker said, his theory doesn't hold water

>>63972537
I honestly don't think people are doing it for attention. First of all if you own a gun and fuck around with it in a dumb fuck way to get social media famous you're begging to have your boomer sheriff, the fbi or the left wing DA take your guns away these days just because. That's even with stating the obvious of potentially killing yourself or someone around you. I do think that more people are likely to report it now especially since there's a video of a sheriff having one go off in his holster in the precinct.

The reason morons keep buying this gun is because yes the trigger does feel good. Most people here I am sure have fired one at this point. Once you think about it though it's like owning a fucking pitbull and not worth the danger to you or your family.

>>63972119 (OP)
At this point why is anyone still carrying a P320 that they haven't had a gunsmith check / fix?

>>63972738
Probably because they're stupid. If I owned a p320, I would sell it immediately and get a p365, or a glock. Hell, I'd get a PSA Dagger over a p320.

Why do they keep buying this piece of shit and then complain ?

>>63972744
It's a tolerance stacking issue so I would trust one that has been toleranced / had replacement parts made.
There is no way I would just cross my fingers and hope I didn't get a bad one.

>>63972716
What's weird to me is that it's coming in waves, but no investigation of the weapons ever reveals any actual defect or malfunction having occurred. Like that's the really big one, nobody can say what is failing. It should be so easy to find out what's going on and to have forensic evidence of what failed, but nothing is showing

>>63972760
Like the other anon said, it's a result of multiple tolerances being at just the right level to cause the problem. Every part is allowed to be a micron too wide. No one part causes it. It's the result of the tolerance lottery making multiple parts in a P320 exceed a critical threshold that results in NDs.

>>63972766
But even that would be obvious on an investigation of the weapons in question. We would be able to see on a given weapon that the sear lacked engagement or the trigger bar moved independently or something. It doesn't matter how it got there, what happened would be evident. But it isn't, which is why we have 9001 amateur gunsmiths sticking pins into and hammering on their 320s

>>63972526
>how come theres been this gigantic wave of 320 discharges recently, we've known about the problems with the 320 for years now but i feel like recently its gotten worse
The pistols are starting to wear in, and more of them are hitting the critical out-of-spec point that lets the gun go off on its own. The first problems cropped up in police and military armory guns that were pushing lots of rounds or reassembled with parts swaps that hit the tolerance limits, or more rarely factory-fresh guns with the tolerance stacked wrong out of the gate.

>>63972519
Sure. The sear that holds the striker in place is not directly connected to the trigger bar. What is supposed to keep it in place are two springs and the tension from the striker. The FBI test showed that vibration can slowly creep the sear out of place without pulling the trigger. That's why you can partially pull the trigger and bang on the gun and sometimes it will go off. By slightly pressing the trigger you release the striker block, then the impact shakes the sear loose. Sig knows this and designed a secondary sear that is supposed to catch the striker in the "unlikely event" that the sear slips. The next problem is the striker block failing, which I've head everything from out of spec parts to things just breaking. Sig even has a video showing the sear disengaging without the trigger being pulled. https://www.sigsauer.com/p320-truth
Glocks for example have the sear held in place by the trigger bar, which requires the trigger to be pulled in order to release the striker. Glocks striker block is also much more robust than Sigs.

chinamen are sabotaging the american service handgun so that your political officers can't execute dissenters when push comes to shove

NDs are just a part of gun ownership.

>>63972891
what the fuck did I just watch?

>>63972292
I miss that guy.

>>63972898
second army of the third world at work

>>63972891
ricochet?

>>63972898
>what the fuck did I just watch?
It seems like he dragged his rifle by the sling and it went full-auto.
I *think* the consequence of that was either some ricochet that maybe hit him in the face and leg, or that was a quad (the blue blur) sitting on the ground near him and he accidentally detonated it but the smoke doesn't seem big enough for that.

>>63972911
>ricochet?
I think so.
There's probably other interpretations available too.

>>63972858
Cool theory but the problem I have is that it's still only theorized because the pistols always have to be modified to produce UDs in post. If it's already broken, it should stay broken. We shouldn't have to rebreak it to see how it failed

>>63972942
>If it's already broken, it should stay broken. We shouldn't have to rebreak it to see how it failed
What?

>>63972958
The 320s investigated almost universally have issues reproducing the failure they were involved in, which is baffling as almost all of them were delivered to the authorities in the exact state they discharged in. The failures should leave explicit physical evidence or, at the very least, the pistol should be in a condition to where UDs are easily reproduced. But they aren't and virtually every single post report Ive seen says that it showed no signs of malfunction and function tests require them to somehow modify the 320 to produce UDs

>>63972967
It's possible that your source, or you, made all that shit up to defend Sig. This is why everything should be sourced with relentless rigor.

>>63972557
True but why do you care so hard about defending a gun company

>>63972977
I have yet to see one that has definitively diagnosed what caused the failure. The FBI report, which was the most thorough that I am aware of, basically said they couldn't tell if it was an uncommanded discharge or not and if it was that they didn't know how it happened. And that's the very best we got, which fucking sucks.
>>63972991
I want the truth about it, not some feel good jack off shit about my favorite gun. They're too many 320s out in the wild to just shrug our shoulders, it's got to get fixed. Plus I get autistically pissed off when people pretend like the partially cocked striker isn't just a placebo

>siggers malding
get a real goddamn gun next time instead of this tupperware crap

>>63972119 (OP)
Where did the bullet go after it hit the steering wheel?

>>63972119 (OP)
could someone remind me what was so wrong about classic sa/da hammer setup that everyone wants to have strikers?

I mean ok, pulling trigger in DA is kind of shit - but you literally just the first shoot, and you never shoot DA outside emergency situation when somebody jumps you at literal punching range.

>>63973045
Average serviceman is an incompetent mouth breather who shoots less than 100 rounds a year. Striker fire has one trigger pull and are usually cheaper

>>63973045
them paper pushers need to pass those qualifications with as little effort as possible which is why we NEED a light single action trigger on everything.

also they need to be like them tactical high speed swat units and quickdraw the gun at any moment which is why a manual safety is a total no-go. it also requires extra training while carrying condition zero has no downsides and anyone can do it without any risk or safety issues.

>>63973045
Cops started failing qualifications when they moved from double action revolvers to DA/SA semiautomatics like 3rd gen Smiths. The Glock's shitty trigger is meant to be reminiscent of that stupidly long revolver pull, and yes, they made it worse after release because it still wasn't mushy and heavy enough for dumb cops.

>>63973222
>My source is I made it the fuck up

>>63972557
>Also the Glock's striker is already tensioned enough to ignite primers without the additional cocking of the trigger pull
Completely irrelevant since the striker spring itself resists the trigger shoe motion. It is inherently safer than any fully-cocked striker system in the same way a double-action trigger is safer than a single-action.

>>63972604
>3. You can easily find idiots monkeying with these parts and setting bullets off without additional cocking.
It is mechanically impossible to make a Glock trigger system set off a primer without completing it's rearward travel unless you literally snap the trigger bar. If you snap the trigger bar then the firing pin block spring needs to fail, AND the block needs to go against gravity AND set there.

There are kits which essentially turn the Glock's trigger into a single-action, including one from Glock themselves (Glock Performance Trigger). The trigger in this configuration is about as safe as an M&P, which is pretty safe, but not as safe as the factory Glock configuration, or even the ghost connectors.

>>63972526
>gun goes off uncommanded
>holy shit that was scary and embarrassing I wonder what I did wrong? I'm never telling anyone I feel so stupid
>years pass
>multiple nationwide news stories and controversies surrounding a particular firearm discharging uncommanded
>gun goes off uncommanded
>fuck mine did it too I'm pissed off they can't keep getting away with it

>>63973362
He went on a show called (of all things) "honesty box" and only mentioned his two daughters.

Don senior's a saint for giving the kid a good childhood, bless him.

>>63973465
What is this actual lies? My guy have you seen any of these trigger kits? Did you completely drink the koolaid?

>>63973222
>cops should go back to revolvers!!

oh its this guy

>>63972212
>fixed the test
Beretta and Sig were both deemed adequate at the end of the service pistol trials, Beretta just came in cheaper than Sig.

>>63973511
I was calling 1980s cops woefully undertrained, yes.

>>63973465
Higher round count glocks can start doing doubles from wear and fouling. They can also release without using the trigger if/when the rails start to misalign.

>>63972546
The Glock striker has enough tension to initiate a primer.
However due to the way the trigger bar interacts with the FCU, the sear can't physically drop because of a shelf keeping it in line with the striker shoe. Only when the trigger gets pulled to a certain point does the trigger bar clear the shelf and become able to drop down.

>>63972631
>Ian will tell you
Ian is just making an educated guess, but educated guesses are worthless sometimes.
https://youtu.be/DBCGdxmILDY?si=qb3MTfSpua0H5ETH&t=239
Glocks will deliver a full primer strike on half cock. It just so happens the FCU and trigger bar physically prevent the striker from being released without a trigger pull (apart from striker breakage).

>>63973045
>what was so wrong about classic sa/da hammer setup

>>63974052
he ain't wrong though

>>63972760
It's actually extremely complicated.
If there was a parts breakage, it would be open and shut. You'd analyze the gun and see the striker went home because there's a chunk of metal missing. Easy.
There's rumors of 10mm/.45 parts getting put into 9mm guns at the factory due to a mixup. The striker itself rotates on its own axis. The striker safety can get caught in the fire position and not return to safe. The play between frame and slide can lead to the FCU and striker shoe to move in relation to one another and change the engagement surface geometry.
The Remington 700 trigger issue took DECADES to figure out and it has one single mode of failure. The 320 may have actually have multiple failure modes and they're only leading to uncommanded discharge when everything aligns.
Even if you can get a weapon to UD under lab conditions, you can't actually tell if that failure mode was what caused the UD. It leaves no evidence on the gun itself, it looks as if it had been fired normally.

>>63972258
It's a sad state of affairs.
There was nothing wrong with sig before they started manufacturing in us, for us market.

>>63972942
>If it's already broken, it should stay broken
>>63972967
>The 320s investigated almost universally have issues reproducing the failure they were involved in, which is baffling
Your incredulity is not an argument.
After the uncommanded discharge happens, either the slide is allowed to cycle and the weapon resets everything, or the slide gets stuck due to it going off inside a holster and the gun will have a dead trigger due to dropping the striker and not being cycled.
This erases the "evidence". The weapon either recocks the striker and returns to a normal sear engagement, or doesn't reengage at all. You'd have to send the gun through the TENET turnstile if you wanted to figure out what the fuck happened to it.

the real problem with the p320 is that the sear and firing pin block are linked so closely that if the sear slipped then the firing pin block is also defeated.
most designs put the firing pin block actuator on the trigger bar, so even if the sear slipped the trigger bar isn't where it needs to be to deactivate the block.

sig put it as a lever on the sear. Sear moves, firing pin block moves. Sear moves enough to let the pin go, the block is already out of the way.

>>63972898
Could it be he was shot when he got up?

>>63974107
What the fuck is the point

>>63974067
Engineer here. Absolutely impossible. Engineering is simply math. If the mistake happened once while a guy was just carrying the gun. It will happen again under lab conditions. If ony you knew about the testing machines we use

>>63972760
That's because the only thing causing the NDs are the flat light triggers without a safety shoe. That's literally it. If Sig dropped a trigger dingus upgrade the issues would stop for the most part

>>63974186
>If the mistake happened once while a guy was just carrying the gun. It will happen again under lab conditions.
That's not true.
If the striker rotates on every cycle you'll need countless re-tries to get the same sear engagement as it had during the UD.
If the frame moving in relation to the slide is the cause for sear disengagement while the striker safety is stuck, then you need to push/pull the frame through the exact same range of motion while the striker is rotated off center the correct amount to slip.
Or it could be relative movement between frame and slide during impact causing the striker shoe to miss the secondary sear that's supposed to arrest striker motion if the primary sear is bumped off.
Or it could be relative movment, striker rotation and impact at the same time.
If impact is the cause you'll need to do it from the correct angle while the FCU parts are sitting at rest under the exact same conditions as during the UD event. It's a statistical problem to have to reset the gun to the "correct" conditions that lead to UD and then impose the stimulus that sets off the UD, when you don't even know what the correct conditions are.

>>63974186
you're a fucking retarded engineer then holy shit

>>63974193
>If Sig dropped a trigger dingus upgrade the issues would stop for the most part
There's been UDs in the military while the safety was on. The safety prevents trigger manipulation but not sear movement.
The sears are moving or the strikers are slipping off the engagement on their own, without trigger motion. A trigger dingus prevents a gun dropped muzzle up from pulling its own trigger via inertia. A sear that drops on its own or a striker with insufficient engagement will not be affected by the dingus.

>>63972537
It’s genuinely this. Not to mention everyone who has a genuine fucky wucky with their trigger is now going to have an “out” by saying “noooooo! It went off by itself!”. Tale as old as time, see: Glock leg.

>>63973544
>implying you've been properly trained in surviving edged weapons

>>63972383
He pulled the trigger with his finger like I said.

>>63974245
Show the Chinese pocket knife ninja.

>>63972546
>hammer is always under full tension
isnt't that the case for.. all pistols?

>>63974151
sig had to fit a new striker system that didn't infringe on any existing patents into the slide of their double action only hammer fired p250 slides so they can save money and use existing tooling

>>63974186
>Engineering is simply math
get a job before calling yourself an engineer bud

>>63974016
what if the trigger bar fails

isn't pic related basically the safest design out there? Why doesn't everyone just use that

>>63974186
>If ony you knew about the testing machines we use
If only you knew how tolerance stacking and environmental testing works.
It could very well take a sequence of very specific accelerations at very specific angles to bias the parts in the right way for an even to happen.
That's why Sig couldn't predict the drop safe problem, because they hadn't tested that specific angle, or the cross trigger. Look at aviation incidents and what it takes for all the holes in the swiss cheese to align. Lab tests usually cover one slice of cheese at a time.

Go back to school and don't come back with that "I'm an engineer" bullshit.
What kind of engineer says "Absolutely impossible, it's just math" when it comes to testing..

>>63974332
>That's why Sig couldn't predict the drop safe problem
This is such bullshit. I guarantee Sig had engineers crying foul on this design from the jump and upper management told them to shut up and get with the program.

>>63974364
>This is such bullshit. I guarantee Sig had engineers crying foul on this design from the jump and upper management told them to shut up and get with the program.
Not only can you not guarantee that, but that's not likely. Some failure modes, management would be willing to force through to get MVP to launch, but something as dumb as not being drop safe, unlikely. Not to mention the risk of one of these engineers being subpoenaed.

>>63974311
Useless against future astronauts and meth warriors hopped up on drugs, unless you nail them square in the head.

>>63972126
You didn't even need that shit.

>>63974543
>gets jewed out of a foreskin by cultural US norms (a.k.a jewish trickery)
>O..oh it's fine, you don't need it. Genital mutilation is modern and valid.

Good goyim

>>63972898
In spite of other comments, im pretty sure there was unexploded ordinance on the downed drone
When he was flopping around he managed to set it off

>>63974550
No no no, I’m saying (You) weren’t going to need it. Nobody’s gonna see yours.

>>63972546
>Ian McCollum
Is a sig shill. He wants so bad to be le measured intellectual voice of reason on this topic but he's dead fucking wrong at every turn. He's release multiple videos stating the 320 doesn't have a problem when it clearly does. He's just as bad as GBRS.

>>63974636
Name one thing he wasn't a "measured intellectual voice of reason" about based on the information available at the time the video was posted.

>>63973024
Into the dashboard? Are you thick or just pretending to be retarded?

>>63974651
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QusWrho19zE&t=470s

This is entire video is him making baseless assumptions without evidence. He starts the video by poisoning the well. No one has ever suggested that the 320 will go off sitting on the shelf. The GBRS retards said the same exact thing and were rightfully ridiculed for it.

The second thing he does is obfuscate his relationship with sig by lying by omission. If you don't believe he has not received money from sig to "review" their guns and shoot them at matches, you're an idiot. Sigs not going to let him review the XM7 if he says the p320 has problems.

@9:00 he starts making assumptions about a lawsuit he hasn't even looked into, just repeating shit he heard. There's no "allegedly" about the gun in question being in a holster. It was, this was available for him to read at the time he released this video.

The entire video is embarrassing. Its nearly 20 minutes of blame shifting and him making assumptions. "Umm actually there's a lot of p320s so it couldn't possibly be that the gun has manufacturing defects. Why don't we hear about people with glocks shooting themselves? Shut up that's why. "

If he wanted to be measured and reasonable he would have waited to make this video. Or said something along the lines of "Yea it looks like theirs be alot of reports of issues with P320s between the non-mandatory "upgrade" and the reported uncommanded discharges. This is something that should be investigated further."

>>63974825
Gun Judas

>>63974311
pic related is probably the safest design. Ironically, it was developed by Sig Sauer. SIG deemed it too expensive to continue to produce and assemble on a large scale so they developed a cheaper striker fired handgun to compete directly with Block (the P320) and failed miserably.

>>63974825
touch grass.

My uneducated guess is Sig designed the pistol with too tight of tolerances for the MIM parts made in India. I bet if the Germans made the parts the AD/NDs would drop significantly.

>>63974924
He's running cover for a gun that maims and kills its users and you hurl insults at me? P320 user brain at work.

>>63974825
>If you don't believe he has not received money from sig to "review" their guns and shoot them at matches, you're an idiot.
He doesn't need Sig money, you dumb fuck. You allege shit with no evidence, and I'm the idiot? His videos are never sponsored but somehow he would've gotten Sig money for...doing what?
>Sigs not going to let him review the XM7 if he says the p320 has problems.
He had his hands on the XM7 way before he addressed P320 UDs.

>No one has ever suggested that the 320 will go off sitting on the shelf.
You're missing his point. He's saying, much like GBRS, that until there's no external factors involved, there's plausible deniability. It's not a matter of opinion. Is it likely the P320 has an issue, yes. Is there factual evidence that any of these discharges conclusively cannot be attributed to an external factor? No. When a person moves or bends over and the gun goes off, and you can't see the trigger area in detail , you can't prove the trigger wasn't pulled. As of today, nobody has been able to recreate the issue by isolating the gun. Literally all it would take to prove the issue would be to take one of the P320s that had an UD, load a round in it, put it in a holster on video with nothing in the trigger guard, and putting it on a shaker table for a month in various orientations until it goes off. And no one has done so.
As for the 9:00, he's saying when a gun is in a handbag swung around, there's a plausible scenario where the gun slides out enough for shit to get in the trigger guard. Seems logical.

>If he wanted to be measured and reasonable he would have waited to make this video. Or said [...]
There's an ulterior video that boils down to "I don't know, it's possible there's a QC issue". He does admit to getting guns for free, but it's Ian. He gets free guns from the entire industry.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3iWVs2uD1XY

>>63974952
If the whole gun was manufactured and designed in Germany we wouldn't even have this thread

>>63972546
>glock
>internal hammer

>>63974956
>Sig sends stuff to Israel entity
>Israel entity gives it to China
Okay?

>>63974984
"he get free guns."

The guns aren't "free" dummy. Do you think the flow of free guns will continue to come if he says the P320 is shooting it's users? Simple question. Why do you think he has yet to update his position and why is the video I linked still up?

He says he stands by his old video in the one you posted lol. And he also says he says he doesn't know what's going on with the 320. Lmao pick a fucking lane. He's doing a really bad job persuading me why I should care about what he says for the remaining 98% of this video.

Sorry, Ian is a mid wit. It's been proven time and time again. I've been watching him since the original federov video. Between this the HMG STG glazing, the H9, no Boer genocide, and the Azov book he has a history of bad takes when he plants his flag in something.

A shaker table would be an "external force/factor" that your are so desperately trying to isolate from. lol Glad to know I'm talking to a retard. Par for the course for Ian apologists I suppose.

>>63974311
DA/SA is the safest trigger action, but too many people get immediately pleb filtered by the double action pull so it has fallen out of style.

>>63975018
>eerm okay??
It's illegal for one. For 2 sig claims that their guns are 100% made in America.

>>63975044
>A shaker table would be an "external force/factor" that your are so desperately trying to isolate from. lol Glad to know I'm talking to a retard. Par for the course for Ian apologists I suppose.
You're the retard if you think "external factor" and "subjected to acceleration" are the same. If you shake the gun in a bag full of various objects, you're introducing external factors. If you fixture the gun on a shaker table and let inertia do its thing, it's a test in isolation.
I expected you'd be arguing in bad faith, but holy shit.

>>63975044
>HMG STG glazing, the H9, no Boer genocide, and the Azov book
Oh so you're that guy who just has a hate boner for Ian and kept making these threads a while back. Rent free, eh?

>>63972119 (OP)
P320s absolutely do just go off but this dude 100% ND'd lmao

>>63972557
Fully cocked is not necessarily full tension on the bar/connector/release/sear

>>63973511
They should Cips who don't train would get killed and less innocent bystanders would die.

>>63974654
You're not even really sure where it went as evidenced by your use of a question mark. Dashboard is a good guess, but then where did it go after that? It could do a lot more damage after going through "the dashboard" that would make a damaged steering wheel seem small. So, why isn't that the main issue? A dashboard isn't made to be shot or made of sand bags. You think you're a smart guy but you're actually pretty dumb.

>>63975305
No, I'm not missing the point, you are. Both GBRS and Ian made the same argument ad absurdum that people are claiming that the P320 goes of sitting on its own, unmolested. Which no one is actually claiming. Which is not the same as placing it on a "shaker table" in scenario you are setting up. You're the one being duplicitous.

>you cant prove the tigger wasn't pull
>no one has done so
It's been proven time and time again the p320 can go off with out the trigger being pulled. IDK what your obsession with the shaker table is. I think someone shook your brain as a baby.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7H4Ri409-5I

Don't believe me that's fine. How about the FBI?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LfnhTYeVHHE

Feel free to look up the myriad of drop test videos too which have been common knowledge for years.

I haven't posted in years so idk who you're talking about but it sounds like he got under your skin. And you failed to even address my other responses. And you don't know what ulterior means, you used the word wrong in your previous post. :)

>>63975700
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7H4Ri409-5I
Relies on the safety lever being intentionally disabled. On top of wrong parts being in the gun (10mm takedown bar in a 9mm FCU)
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LfnhTYeVHHE
Per their findings, the only way to make the safety lever fail is to purposefully making the primary sear drop, which is analogous to moving the trigger bar because of sympathetic movement between the sear and the trigger bar (see ThreeP320sinatrenchcoat video). At no point does the FBI explain what "manually releasing the primary sear" means. If it's not by pulling the trigger, then it's by forcefully pushing on the sear, which isn't a realistic failure mode. You'd need a needle punch to get in there.
Additionally they proved the secondary notch works. So for a gun to fail, per their own report, you'd need a faulty safety lever (admittedly a possibility, as evidenced by the fact that it wasn't properly assembled in the subject gun), and something that makes the primary sear drop (no scenario provided except a somewhat plausible key story, in a separate section of the report).
>ulterior
=further /future
A further/future video after the one you posted. I see no issue here.

> And you failed to even address my other responses
What, this shit?
>HMG STG glazing, the H9, no Boer genocide, and the Azov book
He got burned on the STG like everyone else. I don't see how you can blame the H9's debacle on him, crying about what is or what isn't a genocide is a literal shitskin issue (see turkey, armenia, israel and palestine), and I have no opinion about Azov, I don't really care if a book by an alleged nazi is published or not. You're free to dislike him for that, I support your right to do so.
> IDK what your obsession with the shaker table is
You're being obtuse again. Pathetically transparent. Fine, I'll play. If you fixture the gun to a shaker table and submit it to a battery of shocks and vibration, Sig can't blame anything other than the gun

>>63974186
>engineer doesn't know about real life yet

>>63975771
You just watched it go off before your eyes and you don't believe it for some reason and act like it's impossible for sig, who has notoriously bad QC, to put the wrong parts in the gun.

>point does the FBI explain what "manually releasing the primary sear" means
Bro, who cares. No matter how hard I try no matter how many punches I stick into my PDPs and glocks they will not discharge. You're bending over backwards to defend a gun that clearly has manufacturing problems.

I didn't ask what your personal feelings were about Azov or the Boer genocide. lol

>>63974477
I have no evidence yes that's true but it is the cosmic truth all the same.

>Not to mention the risk of one of these engineers being subpoenaed

This is theoretically possible, but never actually happens There is no profit to be had in holding corporations accountable, only in settling the claims of victims.

>something as dumb as not being drop safe

But that's what happened. I think you are giving SIG too much credit. The modern corporation is capable of remarkable feats of mismanagement.

>>63975938
>Bro, who cares
Oh my bad, you're right. I now hate Ian and the P320's UD are 100% explained.

>>63975955
>This is theoretically possible, but never actually happens
There's record of Sean Toner and David Steimke, both Sig engineers, being dragged to court during trials involving Sig.

>But that's what happened
What happened is that the gun was released without being drop safe. What you're saying happened is that the engineers knew about it, advised against launching, and management told them to fall in line. But you have no way to prove that it's anything but supposition.
Boeing had whistleblowers who knew about the issues, knew management knew about the issues, and were overruled. Where are Sig's?

>>63972546
>>63972557
the Sig issue has to do with idiots at theh factory putting the wrong caliber FCU or something. i saw a video where they replicated the problem perfectly and it had to do with a single component in the trigger mechanism that was made for the wrong caliber and so the tolerances were different and makes the gun fire randomly when subjected to movement or dropped. maybe some other autist here can find the video i dont remmeber what the channel was called

>>63972898
>>63972891
his barrels facing the opposite direction so he didnt shoot himself

>>63974311
unironically I love my cz99, or Crvena Zastava p226 clone, the only thing bad about it is magazine availability.
I really like how solidly it recoils in my hand in a straight line and doesn't shift like lighter pistols like a previously owned ruger p89

>>63974897
>DA/SA trigger

Ah. My old P220. That's why I didn't complain or have NDs.

>>63975321
that maymay doesn't make sense

USP has nice hammer fired trigger
Glock has a gushy striker trigger

For years and years, everyone and their mother were dropping P320's on the ground, whacking them with hammers. twisting them in holsters, etc. to try and figure out what was happening with them.
Then some nerds at the FBI get their hands on one that went off in a holster and discover that if you partially pull the the trigger and gently tape the top of the slide, you can get the pistol to send the striker flying forward and potentially fire the gun
lol

>>63974234
100% willing to bet the two Marines who had NDs (one at home while finger fucking his gun as obviously by it going through the TV top kek) put their safeties back on and said that's how the gun shot

>>63976290
It makes the poorfags feel better. The meme doesn't need to.make sense

>>63973465
bro hasn't seen unc's glock go burst fire because he hasnt cleaned it since Bush Sr. was in office.

>>63975321
>usp
get a mk23, poorfag

>>63974186
This is why real people despise your kind.

>>63972738
>>63972759
Even if you had a gunsmith check to make sure your parts are good, I still wouldn't trust carrying one. SIG has been skimping out on small parts QC across the board, and on top of that, it's just not a good mechanical design. Carry anything else anon

>>63972759
>I would trust one that has been toleranced
If it came out of the factory, it's within tolerances lmao
Motherfuckers never been in a machine shop in they entire lives and act like they know what the fuck words mean

I think a lot of people have also not being owning up to how much theyve been fucking with it.

>>63974825
I agree his video was utterly worthless. The only reason to bring up his relationship with SIG would be to qualify him saying "the gun has problems" not his weird confused response, which just makes him look obviously like a shill(which he is). Ian's problem is that he wants to always look like the smart guy in the room, but he isn't actually smart enough to have a word on every gun related situation. He clearly did zero research into the topic and made a video half cocked which you can tell because he brought up the prospect of P320s going off while randomly laying around, something that nobody is claiming. He basically just puts out white noise meant to confuse you for 20 minutes, which was a waste of time. He should have at best put out a community post saying the short version of what he said in the video and then finishing it out by saying he will monitor the situation to its completion, wherein he will make a comprehensive video on it. That would have been a smart thing to say instead of just de facto shilling for SIG like a retard

Let's be honest here: like three quarters of the outrage about this has nothing to do with whether or not this gun is safe, people made excuses for other guns for years, some of which were just as bad and went unresolved. It's just another excuse to thump our chests and say we were right or be fucking dramatic, because the 2A community is nothing if not dramatic and self righteous.

>>63974311
As bizarre and weird as it is, the Landstad-type 2-chamber revolver system is safer.
The striker always rests on an empty chamber until the trigger is pulled.
An ND or AD is literally impossible unless the trigger is pulled.

>>63977318
>If it came out of the factory, it's within tolerances lmao
Fuck no it ain't. Only aerospace runs 100% QC. Rest is AQL. Chances are they run the first article through 100% QC (all dims) after setup, run the batch, maybe check a few critical dims during the run, do a final 100% QC on the last part , and if it's good, they call it a day.
If the last part isn't good, they'll probably do a manual check on what they think is wrong (tool broke, etc..) and purge the bad parts. Except humans are terrible at doing this.

>>63977318
>If it came out of the factory, it's within tolerances lmao
So when Bear Creek or PSA send out uppers with the gas block misaligned with the gas port it's within spec? It came from factories, not your uncle Bubba's shed.
Factories can fuck up, and there's a thing called "batch testing". Testing every single component you subcontracted out for every geometric and dimensional tolerance is not feasible unless you already figured out your subcontractor fucked you over and now you have to make lemonade out of lemons.
In theory you test a statistically significant number of parts, assemble with the ones you made in house, and then do a functions check. The functions check will catch obviously flawed guns but will allow edge cases such as the initial 320 drop test (the drop with muzzle up was not part of testing) or the current 320 mystery issue.

>>63977908
>>63977970
This is correct, but "tolerance stacking" is kind of a bullshit response. We would see wider, more disparate issues if everything was just mildly out of spec. Take a look at saturday night specials, literally everything goes wrong on them. That is what it would actually look like.

>>63976290
The USP has one of the worst mushy DA/SA triggers I've ever felt

>>63977467
Its a widely adopted gun, and of the adopters is the US military. It is a massive problem when it's discovered to be a massive piece of shit. It makes the US as a whole look bad. 320 apologists are the dumbest faggots in the world lmao

>>63978103
Tolerance stacking is just the layman term for what happens when multiple manufacturers are not using the same spec. You know it's not an accurate engineering term but you understand what it means to normies.
>We would see wider, more disparate issues if everything was just mildly out of spec
Not true, though. You can see that in the AR market and how "tolerance stacking" became widespread as a term. Basically most combinations of parts are functionally OK, but they're not accurately within milspec. Depending on how widely these parts deviate from the standard you can have off spec parts that happen to function well with each other or ARs that seem to malfunction more often but not enough for the hobbyist to really care about it.
The fact that people are using 3d printed frames and lowers and they're *mostly* reliable despite being squirted plastic and finished by hand indicates that deviating from the original spec tolerances isn't immediately catastrophic.
Look at for example picrel. That striker safety tab is three degrees off. Is it gonna lead to instant UD? Probably not. It may work right 9999 times out of 10,000. Instead of home builders mixing AR parts and risking off spec parts getting in the build, it's SIG getting shit components from their subcontractors overseas. The other striker safety tabs with an 89º, 91º and 92º angles have an even lower failure rate. You're only gonna get the UD when the stars align. That's how you can have a widespread problem result in isolated UD incidents.

>>63977318
How do you not knot what tolerance stacking is?
>part A has ±10 thou tolerance
>part B has ±10 thou tolerance
>part A is 9 thou under spec
>part B is 9 thou under spec
>both are within tolerances
>combined they are 18 thou out of spec
>some retard in engineering or QC never tested to see if 18 thou was acceptable in that area

>>63978291
>2A community is nothing if not dramatic and self righteous

>>63978103
>This is correct, but "tolerance stacking" is kind of a bullshit response. We would see wider, more disparate issues if everything was just mildly out of spec. Take a look at saturday night specials, literally everything goes wrong on them. That is what it would actually look like.
You misunderstand what is meant by "tolerance stacking". Tolerance stacking doesn't mean your shit is all over the place AND/OR out of its tolerance band.
Tolerance stacking is just the layman term for what happens when multiple manufacturers are not using the same spec.
You're wrong too.

Tolerance stacking is when multiple tolerance bands end up creating a worst case scenario, and how acceptable that scenario is. Typically, you'd add tolerances, see how much tolerance you need to give each dim for a certain value (in this case, sear overlap) to be within a certain range. In most cases, you don't get 100%, you'll end up with something like 99.99% and a certain CPk, which allows for a small number of parts to be wrong (aka "yields X wrong parts per million").
You do NOT do a tolerance stack assuming that parts aren't in tolerance because that would be outside of design intent. What you can do is notionally increase tolerance and see what that does to your worst case scenario.

People blaming "tolerance stacking" imply that the tolerance stack wasn't properly done, which is fair considering you can half press the trigger and bump the striker off the sear on seemingly a lot of P320s. But that's not the same issue as parts being out of spec.

>>63978362
Sorry, I did not format that properly.

>>63978297
>Tolerance stacking is just the layman term for what happens when multiple manufacturers are not using the same spec. You know it's not an accurate engineering term but you understand what it means to normies.
You're wrong too.

>>63978326
This guy has it

Reminder.

>>63978371
lmao "you're wrong" with no explanation, I accept your concession

I still have my doubts about a lot of what's going on because it's never widely reproducible without intentionally fucking something else on the gun up.

>>63978435
I didn't ping you correctly here >>63978362, so I pinged you here >>63978371 and linked it to the above post.

No concession

>>63977318
You don't know shit.
t. Classically trained machinist

>>63972546
To be fair fully cocked strikers aren't the issue as plenty of other guns have them without the safety incidents like PDPs, M&Ps, etc (I think). It's the fact the P320 is poorly designed and made in India that is the cause of the Sigcidents.

>>63978386
I remember being 18 and needing a personality

>>63980473
more like a fully KEKED striker

>>63980608
Was that before or after you started sucking cock?

>>63972194
>P320s are already about $300 used, the internet is absolutely littered with them. lol lmao
just wait until niggers start using them because they are a cheaper option. the real siggers arent even here yet.

>>63974984
FBI report says that a brand new unfired gun went off just by wiggling the frame off the slide, on the second attempt. Siggers BTFO

>>63975771
>being intentionally disabled. On top of wrong parts being in the gun (10mm takedown bar in a 9mm FCU)
Certainly possible. This is Sikh Saaar we're talking about behind the manufacture of every gun. If they can fuck up the design they can fuck up the production too. And it is replicable :^)

>Per their findings, the only way to make the safety lever fail
...is to wiggle the frame off the slide a bit while holstered, which can easily happen naturally to a user in the field from natural movement. All it takes is the primary sear to slip off at random while that wiggling happens, and due to shitty Indian (but I repeat myself) MIM parts, rounding and excess material called "rollover" can increase the chances of that.

>which is analogous to moving the trigger bar
Sure, but the point is that the user is not actuating it himself, which is bad.

>At no point does the FBI explain what "manually releasing the primary sear" means. If it's not by pulling the trigger, then it's by forcefully pushing on the sear, which isn't a realistic failure mode. You'd need a needle punch to get in there.
I see a punch in the hands of the user in the picture which seems to be how the FBI are releasing the sear manually while testing the other safety measures. The punch test may have been inspired by Three P320s In A Trenchcoat's punch test.

>So for a gun to fail, per their own report, you'd need a faulty safety lever (admittedly a possibility, as evidenced by the fact that it wasn't properly assembled in the subject gun), and something that makes the primary sear drop
Again, faulty safety lever caused by frame/slide tension and sear slippage caused by shitty MIM parts, with a shock or two applied for good measure. The sear showed irregular wear and crappy machining on the critical sear faces FYI.

>>63972526
They've always been going off, it's just that you're paying attention to it now.

>>63974186
I fully agree. The problem is knowing what the exact conditions that caused the discharge are. Maybe the gun needs to be bumped here and prodded there. Maybe a butterfly has to flap it's wings in Brazil. And a new sigcident occurs

>>63976722
You'd lose that bet because security footage mentioned in the report confirms the gun had the safety on and the user was not at fault. There was only 1 marine incident involving the safety being on. What else are you talking about?

>>63981425
Bitch you can make a fuckin glock go off if you achieve enough rail separation, who gives a fuck

>>63977318
But what if the factory is Indian?

>>63981178
Do you mean fully cucked?

>>63981821
>>63981425
>>63981898
Nigga is mad he can't get any indian pussy apparently

>>63978435
Not that guy but tolerance stacking doesn't inherently have anything to do with manufacturers not using the same spec. A tolerance stackup will happen in any assembly, period, regardless of whether there are many manufacturers or one manufacturer. All parts have a tolerance so it's unavoidable. I assume this is what that other anon was semantically triggered about.

>>63981897
And yet we don't have multiple videos of Glocks going off in secured duty type holsters. Or really any other major brand of duty gun. Just the P320.
Wild.

>>63981930
But if manual manipulation of the slide to frame is what allows for enough disengagement, a good holster won't let that happen. So, again, who gives a fuck? Not to mention people immediately tried this test and they couldn't replicate it

>>63978339
No denial from me. But no denial from you either

>>63978458
What if the jeets working at Sig intentionally fucked the gun up? The jews did for sure.

>>63982002
Unlikely. While that would be an embarrassment, it has no real strategic value

>>63981897
>>63981990
Well fuck Glocks. This post made by Beretta gang. Holsters are not meant to keep the slide and frame together btw. The FBI tried the test on a brand new gun and it UD the second try.

>63981911
I don't want you you Indian pussy. Go back to the assembly lines, Sig isn't paying you nothing for nothing.

>>63981990
>a good holster won't let that happen
what makes you think that?
all holsters let the slide and frame move inside them. without play it would be impossible to draw.

>>63982021
>>63982018
Bro "a little play" is not grabbing and twisting the slide and frame apart from each other. The other thing is that no pistol tested in that dumb report was able to UD without them milling out the secondary catch. That's why nobody can reproduce this near useless report

>>63981911
Indian women have cloacas.

>>63977908
>Only aerospace runs 100% QC.
I worked in oil well robotics. We did 100% QC on anything more advanced than a washer or bolt. And comple functions check of everything that left the factory. So not only aerospace, but definitely only high end products get that kind of oversight.

>Chances are they run the first article through 100% QC (all dims) after setup, run the batch, maybe check a few critical dims during the run, do a final 100% QC on the last part

You are not all wrong. I work in a general sub contracting shop now. When we get orders from medical tech it's also 100% qc.

For shit like industrial washing machine components and the like it's the first 2-5 pieces that get 100% inspections, so you can estimate tool wear under functional conditions, then once daily it's 100% inspected.

>If the last part isn't good, they'll probably do a manual check on what they think is wrong (tool broke, etc..) and purge the bad parts. Except humans are terrible at doing this.

Unless your CNC guys program like fucking cowboys with no oversight, it's easy as fuck. A broken tool could be determined by a literal retard.

>>63981911
who the fuck would want indian pussy? the fuck?

>>63983947
>>63982515
Spoken like fags who haven't had any

>>63972526
Over longer periods of time more events will occur. Also, the big issue is there is stacking tolerances due to the chassis system and dogshit QC. A part may marginally be in spec when it rolls of the assembly line in Mumbai, but after someone shoots a couple hundred rounds there is a little bit of wear, and now the sear can easily slip off.

Same reason why triggers usually feel a bit better after a couple hundred rounds, but in this case it leads to NDs

>>63974186
I hope you don't work for any company I buy shit from because you couldn't engineer yourself out of your own bathroom.

>>63972967
>But they aren't and virtually every single post report
Which ones and from whom?

>ITT people who based their entire personality around owning SIG products seethe and have melties over SIG's garbage products going under
You love to see it.

>>63974186
Yes because there have never been faulty guns, vehicles, engines, appliances, or any other badly designed product ever.

Holy shit I hope you are still in undergrad and haven't been weeded out yet.

>>63974477
>but something as dumb as not being drop safe
You dumb nigger. The first generation of guns they gave to the FUCKING MILITARY weren't drop safe. That was their flagship, made in the USA version and they still had known issues.

>>63976722
What about this one?

>>63976722
>>63985466
Or this one

>>63976722
>>63985471
Or this one? Are you going to say they all clearly touched the triggers too?

>>63977318
>If it came out of the factory, it's within tolerances lmao
First off, lol. Lmao even.

Second, what about when that factory is in India?

>>63985405
Who would that be?

>>63981911
Why would anyone want that? They are on average even more hideous and smelly than niggresses.

>>63985074
You argue like a woman. Sign of an intellectual lightweight
>t had enough pussy to know it's overrated

>>63985577
Very cool and convincing

>>63972738
> haven't had a gunsmith check / fix?
You can't fix an inherently dogshit design, the P320 is literally just the failed P250 with a retarded striker system shoved into it. It's obvious because they made absolutely zero effort to reprofile the slide.

>>63985593
>literally the second best selling handgun in all human history despite only being 10 years old is a dogshit design
What is it like being retarded?

>>63985571
This thought brought to you by backwater bumfuck.

>>63985074
yeah im quite glad i havent had any indian pussy gross gypsy people

>>63985645
Go on Ranjeesh. Please do the needful and tell me about how superior Indian women are. I need a laugh.

>>63985782
>Thinking I'm Indian
I just like to sample everything. Pussy is largely pussy, but generally a bigger bank account means they're clean and less weird regardless of race.
>>63985725
Indians are indians. Gypsies are gypsies. Both have good pussy

>>63985826
alright the acts up now, funny man

>>63974299
The striker safety is only disengaged when the trigger is pulled regardless of whether the bar itself is intact.

>>63985422
>You dumb nigger.
No, you dumb fuck. The argument isn't whether the gun was drop safe or not. It's whether the engineers knew about it and management told them to STFU. Seriously, learn how to read.

>>63985603
Ask a P320 owner. Just because McDonalds sells the most doesn't mean it's the best.

>>63981425
>FBI report says that a brand new unfired gun went off just by wiggling the frame off the slide, on the second attempt
What part of "the sear was manually released from the primary notch" do you not understand?

>All it takes is the primary sear to slip off
>Sure, but the point is that the user is not actuating it himself, which is bad.
So far the only way to do this is to drive a small punch deep from the rear of the gun, which is not a plausible scenario.

>>63982673
>Unless your CNC guys program like fucking cowboys with no oversight, it's easy as fuck. A broken tool could be determined by a literal retard.
Depends on the feature and the toolpath that was supposed to create it. If a finishing pass is missing, good luck identifying that unless you're intimately familiar with the part or you have a hard gauge.

>>63985826
>but generally a bigger bank account means they're clean and less weird regardless of race.
Ranjeesh please. Indians aren't any of those.
>indians
>clean
Thank you for this. I haven't laughed this hard in a couple days.

>>63985603
>the second best selling handgun in all human history
I can guarantee this is either bullshit, or whoever's making this claim gets there by counting common designs made by different companies as different guns.

Anyway it's shit. The FBI made it go off by bumping the slide, and there are at least two assembly steps which can be done incorrectly while still keeping the firearm functional yet unsafe. It is not possible to assemble a Glock into a functional yet unsafe configuration aside from installing a fully-cocked adjustable trigger and dialling it to a hair.

It's not possible to assemble a Glock's striker block incorrectly and have the gun still function, it's not possible to assemble the trigger bar incorrectly, it's not possible to install the takedown lever in a manner which causes sear engagement without a trigger pull. All of the contingencies of user error are accounted for in the Glock's basic mechanical design.

The same is (to everyone's current knowledge) true of the S&W's, CZ's, HK's etc. it's a problem which right now is only known to the sig P320.

Only 85 or so more post before this thread starts to die and the Anti-Sig schizo makes another.
At least he(she) has learned his(her) lesson (via getting banned) and quit shitting up legit threads.

>>63985925
Man there's no need to rely on half truths to get your point out. The 320s in that test had the secondary sear removed and they actuated the primary sear with a punch, which is a far cry from just wiggling the slide. When assembled with the wrong lever, it's not really fully functional either; it relies on the operator never doing an actual function test after reassembly. These are still situations that produced UDs, and that is concerning, but tell the whole story

>>63972383

he was paid 2.5 mil to day it probably

>>63982033
>Bro "a little play" is not grabbing and twisting the slide and frame apart from each other.
You clearly don't operate son. You don't even go outside with a gun on your hip.
>The intent of the manipulation and pressure was to mimic what might occur to a holstered weapon during an
officer's duties, such as running, jumping, climbing, fighting, pressing a weapon against a wall or vehicle, or obtaining a master grip on the pistol prior to drawing, etc.

>The other thing is that no pistol tested in that dumb report was able to UD without them milling out the secondary catch. That's why nobody can reproduce this near useless report
The FBI reproduced an ND with a brand new P320 using the same wiggle test. They did not mill out anything in that pistol yet it fired the second time. See >>63981425

>>63985074
You can redeeem it all Sandeep, it's your problem.

>>63985941
The shitposting will continue until Sig Sauer quality control improves. Though to tell you the truth, "I" didn't make this one. It's the many others that did. We are many, we are one

>>63972496
>>63974254
I don't think these guys did tho

>>63986471
saved, total sigger death.

>>63986313
The report says the secondary sear has a 100% catch rate in the sampled pistols and the conclusion of the report at large is that they cannot determine how UDs are actually happening, which would be a direct contradiction of your assumption that they were able to use an unmodified M18 to produce it. Given those two statements in the report, the additional M18 used for control must have also been modified

>>63973511
But they should, you dicksucking niggerfaggot retard.

>>63985905
>What part of "the sear was manually released from the primary notch" do you not understand
I understood every word. Now what part of the report where it says that
>the sears' primary and secondary notch and striker foot of the suspect P320 was worn down
>the sear bounces under recoil and the sear faces can get chipped as a result
>the primary sear notch can fail if the gun is tapped with a mallet, especially if it's poorly made and worn down (hence the sear being milled to mimic just that)
>and the striker safety lock (the last thing stopping a P320 from shooting your dick off) can fail and cause the gun to UD if the gun's frame and slide are wiggled off each other a bit during normal movement
did you not understand?

>only way to do this is to drive a small punch deep from the rear of the gun
Or a deadblow mallet or similar impact to a holstered p320.

Let me recap, all that is needed for the gun to UD is:
>1 - a poorly machined, worn down sear (both primary and secondary notch) and striker foot,
>2 - an impact to a holstered P320 big enough to cause the striker foot to slip off the sear (both primary and secondary notches must fail)
>3 - tension between the slide and frame to defeat the striker safety lock.(assuming the spring holding it in place doesn't just slip off or break)

And that's assuming the gun doesn't just fire from a partial trigger press and a rack of the slide

>>63985892
It's completely likely, look up the (((early life history))) of the CEO

>>63985323
Indeed, people break in the P320... until it breaks them.

>>63973362
Is that fucking Ron Cohen?

>>63985603
>[Citation needed]
Wow, people are getting rid of theirs that fast huh?

They say the two best days in a Sigger's life is when he buys a P320 and when he sells his P320.

>>63986224
You tell others not to use half truths but use some yourself? The primary sear notch was cut down, not the secondary, which was to test the secondary sear notch for function. You forgot to mention that an impact with a mallet to the holstered gun caused the cut down notch to fail 10/10 times (though the secondary sear worked every time). Then they wiggled the slide and used the punch but that caused the striker safety lock to fail.

If the primary and secondary sear notches wore down naturally (which did occur to the subject gun), all it takes is an impact to a gun with the frame wiggled off the slide a bit to UD.

>>63985826
Why are you sleeping with Gypsies, Ramesh? Have some standards. Your virginity isn't the only thing she stole.

>>63986498
Indeed, though they only tested it 10 times. However the FBI report states that:
>A brand-new unfired Sig Sauer M18 pistol was obtained from MSP to determine if the test could be repeated on another weapon.

Since they used a punch to depress the sear I believe that caused both the primary and secondary notches to be moved away from the striker foot, and since the striker lock failed due to frame wiggling, the striker flew forward and caused the gun to UD. But then again, a well placed impact and worn down sear faces can also result in the same failure. That scenario was what the FBI modifications were trying to replicate IMO.

>>63985912
Are you not using dynamic roughing? The finish left is visibly different from a finish pass in that case.

If it's a contour used for roughing, it can be hard, but that rarely makes sense for anything but soft material, and in that case the stock left is like 0.1 mm or more. Not really a problem to measure, even with simple tools.

And let me clarify. Determining the direct cause of a problem on a part (like the broken tool >>63977908 mentioned) is what i am saying is easy. Measuring a defect can still be hard.

>>63985941
There is no anti-Sig schizo. You are the pro-Sig schizo who has his self esteem tied up in a company that you have no involvement with.

>>63986471
God that one at 21 seconds is damming. It's clearly in the holster and you can clearly see his index finger extended the whole time.

>>63986485
>total sigger death

>>63985892
>management told them to STFU
Yes because no company has ever, in the history of man, brought a product to market with known defects. Nope not even once.

Ahem
>https://www.americanrifleman.org/content/safety-recall-sig-sauer-cross-bolt-action-rifles/
Reminder 320s are brought to you by the company that made a bolt action rifle in the 21st century that was capable of firing with the safety on and without the trigger being pulled. So either (((Sig's))) management is corrupt and greedy, or their engineers are retarded. Possibly both.

Feels good to be a hammerchad every time a strikerbabby gives himself involuntary gender affirmation surgery.

>>63987319
Sig is just the Boeing of guns at this point

>>63975321
>IT'S THAT ANIME GUN!!!!

>>63975321
>s*y image

>>63974080
fpbp

>>63981369
>just wait until niggers start using them
Holy shit boys
>320 floods the nigger market because they are 100$ used
>ADs left and right will be thinning the population because niggers won't even maintain and definitely won't holster them properly
Is SIG actually based?!?!

>>63972119 (OP)
It's okay, NDs are a normal part of gun ownership.

>At friends apartment at college. Just bought my first pistol from a gun show (I was 18)
>Drinking with friends
>Show them my new Jericho
>Try to manually decock
>Thumb slips on hammer, ND into celling
>Upstairs neighbors too high and drunk (underage and illegal drugs) to call the police.

> Second time
>At range
>Showing friend pistol
>Think gun is unloaded
>Point at ground show him how to wrack and pull the trigger.
>Forgot loaded mag in
>Shoot between his feet

>Third time
>At parents house.
>Just bought a sig from a guy
>Get home
>Try swapping slides with another sig I had
>Forgot the other sig slide was chambered.
>Pull trigger
>Shoot parents wall

>Fourth time
>Showing a friend how to use it
>No idea how but a round got chambered
>Show him how the trigger works,
>Pull trigger
>Shoots round into floor in the same place as before

>>63973045
>what’s wrong with DA/SA
It’s worse than what it replaced, cocked and locked single action carry

>>63987630
You can cock and lock a da/sa and its fine. Not 1911 tier because of the transfer bar, but not bad.

>>63987665
If you’re gonna do this, then it just makes the trigger worse for no real benefit.
It’s a shit system that should have never caught on, and it’s good that it died, and it’s good that cocked and locked is coming back into the forefront.

>>63987630
There's no way it's worse. It's like the legit safest firing system and has a lot of advantages over SAO or DAO. What is this absolute brainlet take

>>63972325
Don’t be anti sigitic

>>63977318
This is a guy that trusts the experts.

What is even the appeal of the Sig P320 assuming it was a perfectly safe gun that always functioned exactly as intended? Its just another 9mm handgun. I don't understand why it got so popular in the first place.

>>63988555
marketing.
mil/leo contracts, which are basically just marketing with extra steps.

>>63988606
SIG is literally shipping some of their special edition guns with challenge coins. It's blatantly marketing to motards and the "I would have joined but..." idiots.

>>63981911
Oh god

>>63986471
The way the cop apprehends the suspect firearm and treats it like any other unpredictable nigger is hilarious

>>63976101
Big it true

>>63988555
I am a sucker for modularity and gimmicks personally

Thankfully i also have a fetish for shitty failure guns. I am always looking out for a zip22 whenever I go to pawnshops. I wish I had bought one when I saw them come out but I was in a gay state at the time

>>63988892
*if*
>facepalms

>>63981911
Your psyop to get people to sleep with indian women isn't going to work, too many people have seen them. And they've seen how they age. No thanks.

>>63988896
Big and true

>>63972119 (OP)
Why would you even carry a single action only pistol with zero safeties for personal protection? For 150 years we’ve known that double action guns are the best option for carrying a self defense weapon.

>>63988688
After not paying attention for gun releases and news for a couple of years I noticed there was suddenly a SIG cult and I was like wtf???

>>63987319
>Yes because no company has ever, in the history of man, brought a product to market with known defects. Nope not even once.
how is that a fucking argument?

>>63977970
>So when Bear Creek or PSA send out uppers with the gas block misaligned with the gas port it's within spec?
I've seen BCA ship barrels without ant rifling or without a gas port at all.

>>63989550
Are you unaware of sarcasm?

>>63987617
Anon clear your weapons before messing with them, don't let it take a friends life before you take it seriously.

>>63992098
I think you need to brush up on your gun safety anon

>>63989315
>>63988688
YOU WILL NEVER UNDERSTAND WHAT IT MEANS TO BE A LEGION OWNER .A MEMBER OF A SMALL AND ELITE GROUP OF EXTRAORDINARY GENTLEMEN, THAT COIN IS MORE THAN JUST A COIN.LIVE UP TO LEGION VALUES.HONOR IS A MATTER OF CARRYING OUT, ACTING, AND LIVING THE VALUES OF RESPECT, DUTY, LOYALTY, SELFLESS SERVICE, INTEGRITY AND PERSONAL COURAGE IN EVERYTHING YOU DO.HISTORY, SACRIFICE, AND COMMON HERITAGE IN THE HEART OF EVERY SIG LEGION OWNER.SIG SAUER LEGION OWNERS BORN READY.THE FEW, THE PROUD THE OWNERS OF SIG LEGION PRODUCTS.LEGION STRONG.LEGION OWNERS ARE FORGED BY THE SEA.LEGION OWNERS BE LIKE I WILL NEVER QUIT. I PERSEVERE AND THRIVE ON ADVERSITY. MY NATION EXPECTS ME TO BE PHYSICALLY HARDER AND MENTALLY STRONGER THAN MY ENEMIES. IF KNOCKED DOWN, I WILL GET BACK UP, EVERY TIME.TO LIVE EVERY DAY AS A SIG LEGION OWNER IS BEYOND JUST LIVING IT'S A LIFE OF DUTY PASSION AND PATRIOTISM WHEN YOU'RE A SIG LEGION OWNER THE ONLY EASY DAY WAS YESTERDAY.

>>63986471
Non american here, are these people forced to used the 320 ? Is it service related ? Can't you push you dept. to allow them to change your service firearm ?

Also you should swap to m9 / 92s amazing pistols. Most of the downsides don't really apply for police duty.

>>63985826
>>63986561
>Why are you sleeping with Gypsies
Franco-Irish muttboy here, there's nothing quite like hot, sweaty, filthy, guilty Cradle-Catholic buttfucking while hiding unsuccessfully from the Eyes of God under her parents' truck at 0300. Can't keep her from stealing your heart along with enough nut to drown a camel, but at least don't be a chucklefuck and take a full wallet on the date..

>>63994526
You can sometimes change your service weapon, but it's usually a privilege of rank, expensive as shit because of all the new gear required, and exposes you to extra liability if something goes wrong.

>>63972119 (OP)
imagine if someone buys up all the cheap sigs that are flooding the market, then brings them to gang infested areas and give them to criminals
then watch the criminals ND on themselves and each other

>>63981911
>indian pussy

no thanks

>>63978326
>Not checking overall dimensions after final assembly with a CMM or the like

Lots like you don't manufacture

>>63972891
Lmao what a retard

>>63994526
>are these people forced to used the 320 ?
kind of. they use what the department gives them, and the department 1) gets discounts for buying enough to supply the entire department and 2) are suckered in by "muh military"
>Can't you push you dept. to allow them to change your service firearm ?
I imagine that's difficult due to the paperwork involved, and I'd bet there's insurance coverage considerations for letting an officer bring a gun from home
at best, you're probably allowed to keep the handgun you were already issued if the department is making the switch