Thread 63972284

>New U.S. Army tank platoon doctrine is out.
>Includes instructions for targeting quadcopters with the main gun of an M1A2 Abrams MBT.
Why are Ukrainians and Russian tankers so retarded? Just shoot the quadcopter drones with the tanks machineguns duh:
https://x.com/Osinttechnical/status/1943876049802064248?

Does Abram's fire control lock uav?

>>63972284 (OP)
Not the machine guns but the main gun firing canister shots

>>63972307
No.

I guess Ukrainian and Russian tankers have just been too stupid to do this 3 years into the war and just like getting blown up by FPV drones...

>>63972284 (OP)
>ONE-HALF FOOTBALL FIELD IN FRONT OF NOSE
lol, lmao even.

>>63972523
>John Madden

>ONE-HALF FOOTBALL FIELD
>ONE-HALF FOOTBALL FIELD
>ONE-HALF FOOTBALL FIELD

sometimes i wonder if em chinese use rice field as mean of measuring like how we do with football field.

>>63972580
They use metric even on their aircrafts

>>63972523
>he mean reave?
>oh ro-

>>63972284 (OP)
The military would rather put out dumb advice that doesn't hurt than tell their men "lol IDK, good luck".
I'm sure canister would have decent odds against an FPV you have seen that's low enough to get elevation on but leading fixed wings or using the HMG seems like cope.
>inb4 the bradley that hit the drone
I have seen photos of a guy that survived a 23mm to the head, this doesn't mean taking a 23mm to the head is often survivable.

>>63972284 (OP)
>one hallf football field in front

How much will the salvo cost in US eggs?

>>63972284 (OP)
Jesus this is going to get a lot of young tankers killed horribly.

>>63972621
No it's not, it doesn't make their odds any worse than telling them nothing.

>>63972626
Doctrine should basically not be using tanks on the frontline anymore.

>>63972606
The main problem with quadcopters has always been detecting them in time, as they can approach from any direction. By the time you see them, it’s already too late.

>>63972311
Just the other year the US Army was pushing a two-round doctrine, KE and AMP. Maybe they found a need to keep the shotgun-round in inventory after all

In fact, the instructions make sense. When a platoon follows the instructions and fires in sync so that the shells meet at the same point, they annihilate with such force that the cloud of shrapnel destroys everything in range.

>>63972635
>don't use the best tip of assaults for assaults
Where should they be used, keep in mind they have ~3km range on perfect terrain and fibre drones have 10 to 30 km range.

The reality is getting 2 tank crew killed so a platoon can take an objective was historically the cost of doing business and it's only after decades of air wars and low intensity conflict that people expect tank crews to survive a war.
Casualties happen and until there is a better way to get a spot to shot killchain down to second or deliver a lot of hate to garrisoned buildings tanks will remain in service despite a return to WW2 loss rates.

>>63972639
Yep, it wouldn't take many drones getting shot down for the enemy to just fly higher above the cannons elevation.

>>63972646
Longer term it's going to have to be either APS or integrated point defence dealing with drones because driving around with canister loaded all the time just in case will reduce combat effectiveness.
I can't imagine a shitter situation than seeing a drone charging you with APFSDS loaded or having armour crest when you have canister loaded.

>>63972662
Why not make purpose built breakthrough tanks, with a casemate mounted gun, covered in all directions with like 6 layers of spaced armor slathered in ERA with an APS on top (that has instructions to detect the rapid spinning of drone propellors), and 2+ mine flails in front to remove mines? Such assault vehicles would probably be very survivable against anything short of an airdropped bomb, 300mm rocket, or missile.

>>63972669
You would then use traditional tanks to exploit the breakthrough. They would also have APS to shrug off a few drone shots, but APS alone could get saturated by sheer volume of drones during an assault.

>>63972662
>>63972673
I don't see APS being a silver bullet because FPV drones with fiber optics can fly extremely close to the ground.

>>63972673
no current APS can handle any top attack threats, including drones

you'd just jam every single frequency in the attacked sector instead

>>63972676
And?

>>63972669
Their tracks can still be blown up by mines and drones. Once immobilised, the crew leaves the tank, then It gets finished off by FPV drones for propaganda footage. That's how most "turtle tanks" have been destroyed in Ukraine.

>>63972676
It’s not a silver bullet, but it helps, and the breakthrough vehicle would have tons of spaced armor as well.

You can also force ground-hugging drones to rise using a layer of dangling chains over ERA-coated sideskirts. With such precautions, even a side or rear hit to the hull would probably not penetrate or detrack the tank, so drones would have to go for top attacks and expose themselves to APS. There can be overhead cages and ERA as well.

>>63972669
I'm all for a return to assault guns and I have been saying I think the future is high calibre / low velocity HE throwers for urban warfare.
As >>63972673 says you are still going to need a MBT because they have the versatility to exploit breakthroughs but maybe a light tank would be viable in this role.

As for defence it could ultimately be a return to SPAA being integrated into armour units same as protected them from ground attack planes in WW2.
I think APS is worth while because it can intercept high speed missiles, rockets and shells. That alone makes them worth while so expanding them as drone defences even if it is just the final layer after SPAA / lasers would be worth it.

>>63972679
Jamming has been defeated by fibre drones, longer term autonomous target finding and guidance will replace the fibre.
Hard kill is the only viable option but that could be microwave, laser, AA or even anti-drone drones.

>>63972680
It bypasses APS radar coverage

>>63972679
I think the Israelis have tried to make Trophy capable of stopping drones. It should not be that hard of a fix. Even if the drone is slow, the propellors move quickly and probably have a fairly distinctive radar signature.

And jamming isn’t going to work against wired or autonomous drones.

>>63972681
The Turtle tanks in Ukraine are kind of haphazardly built, with just a handful of layers of armor, not much spacing, and no ERA. They also tend to attack in small numbers. Ideally, you’d launch a massed attack with purpose built turtle tanks and IFVs, escorted by interceptor drones. They would have a lot more layers of spaced armor (perhaps sacrificing frontal armor to accomodate this), with like 50-100 cm between each layer, APS, and multiple mine flails in front to destroy mines. Some might get disabled, but some should be able to make it through.

>>63972699
This is the latest iteration of turtle tank. According to Ukrainian Telegram channels, It took 60 FPV drones to finish It off. But It was initially immobilised by a mine.

>>63972696
Im not sure that's true

>>63972699
>perhaps sacrificing frontal armor to accomodate this
That's a good point, we could see KE armour go out of fashion and more HEAT optimized armour take it's place. You likely aren't surviving a APFSDS hit anyway so why armour for kinetics over autocannon size.

So why aren't the tanks drones themselves, yet? (wired, radio, laser point-to-point, whatever, probably all 3)

>>63972708
>sitting in your immobilized tank for an hour getting hit by an FPV every minute until it finally catches fire
I think I would rather get cooked off without blast doors.

>>63972679
>no current APS can handle any top attack threats, including drones
Yes and no, because "top attack" is such a wide term
A TOW with Top-attack is well within the APS capability, same goes for a FGM-148 being fired from long range due to the glide angle. Nothing as of now can counter a drone dropping something vertically, but there is also the matter of engaging the drone during the fly-in

>>63972726
The crew already left the tank the moment they got immobilised. That's why in 99% of the drone footage coming from this war where they're attacking an immobilised tank, the hatches are always open. But the video of the tank being blown up can still be used for propaganda purposes for both sides.

>>63972745
Fair enough, I don't know if I would run or sit given what happens to those that try to outrun FPVs.

>>63972635
>>63972662
>>63972669
>>63972676
Military boomers should be tied and brought by force to the future.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W18JC1-Okj4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIIQuTU3RmE

>>63972802
That's what I was talking about when I said "integrated point defence"

>>63972284 (OP)
Main gun and coax have a FCS which means kentucky windage is not required.

Are there any vehicle-mounted sensors that can capture quadcopters?

>>63972311
That's going to need a whole new production line

>>63972580
>3 rice bowls at arms legth
Sounds unironically legit.

This is just to give them something to do before they die isn't it. Like who is going to fly so low an Abrams has enough elevation to shoot it?

>>63972311
>Auto loaders get pushed through for the next MBT gen to help canister drone swarms
Maybe the French were right.

>>63972662
>tanks will remain in service despite a return to WW2 loss rates
Without tanks, armies would rapidly return to WW1 loss rates. Lookin' at you, Russia.

Wow, absolutely nigger-tier reading comprehension or just seething thirdies.
>You see a drone, wat do?
>Engage with all weapons
Holy shit who would've thought, guess the slavic homos rather sit there and take it.
>>63974499
There is a large group of retards who have painted themselves in to a corner where all offensives are "obsolete" because you might actually suffer casualties

>>63972284 (OP)
This isnt even the funniest part.
The "tank commander gets out of the hatch nad starts doing the hand signals" is the most funny part.

>>63972669
I remember being eight years old.

>>63974572
What's funny about that?

non-americans really trying to act like "half a football field' is some esoteric measurement

Why is everyone ITT assuming they mean FPV attack drones? Quadcopters are used for ISTAR too.

>>63974711
>FPV incoming
>get in the open hatch and start waving around

>>63974712
Imagine a football field against the background of sky as reference and drone of arbitrary size that had never been seen on football field is indeed an ass pull of a target leading.

>>63975255
did you not go to highschool? how have you never seen a football field?

>>63975270
I never seen a drone on a football field and those drones can go from wing span 1m to 10m. Did you not study math in highschool?

>>63972646
Just detonate AMP right past the barrel and it's canister.

>>63975475
Or you can command set off era.

>>63975739
Dual function ERA/APS would be a neat invention.

>>63972523
>>63972569
>>63972612
>turdies cannot understand that anyone is US combat arms immediately and instinctively knows the approximate distance that this represents
>>63972635
>Laughs in US air superiority and EW
This is a worst case scenario for US troops, not "reality on the ground"

>>63972662
>3km range on perfect terrain
Are you genuinely ignorant or just like to lie?

How the fuck is it so difficult to create some kind of simplified CIWS for tanks. Like nigger it's your RCWS with some "AI" that'll target a flying object and then leave it up for the commander's discretion to shoot or not rather than murder every pigeon in the area.

This can't be advanced alien tech. It's not as if a carrier's CIWS is manually aimed. Drone signature is a lot smaller but it's the same principle (and they are slower than what a CIWS will target, too).

>>63975988
Meant to say I am asking seriously, is this a miniaturization issue? A desire to play by the book and only use authorized TO&E systems? I can understand in the US nobody jerry-rigging something but with the creative ingenuity of the Ukrainians you'd expect them to have something to handle the DJI drones.

>>63975988
You don't want all of your tanks radiating constantly so they go from hard to find to easy to find. Ships aren't trying to hide in the brush and so can run their radar 24/7 because lolwhocares outside of a couple of rare situtations.

>>63975993
You aren't hiding a tank's thermal signature anyways, not without next gen surface coatings, swapping to hybrid or all electric and deleting the crew and using the crew support systems and space originally intended for them to run extra coolant and electrical systems.

>>63976031
There is a massive difference in needing to look at a tank vs being able to pinpoint it from just looking at EM emissions

>>63975403
you dont need to know the size of the drone. aim half a football field ahead of it and start shooting.

>>63972699
>Ideally, you’d launch a massed attack with purpose built turtle tanks and IFVs
The drones first concentrate on the IFVs and ignore the turtle tanks. Then what?
Also you don't need to waste 60 drones to fully destroy a turtle tank, you can waste just a couple to immobilize it first and thus no breakthrough capability.

>>63972745
>But the video of the tank being blown up can still be used for propaganda purposes
My negro in Christ, the tank is destroyed not for propaganda, but to deny it being towed back and reused.

>>63975993
How about passive targeting? Visible spectrum + thermals?

>>63975403
Did you eat breakfast this morning?

>>63975975
The effective range is generally listed at 3 to 4 km, lets say 5km, does that change the argument?
https://www.inetres.com/gp/military/cv/weapon/M256.html

>>63976157
My mistake, you are even stupider than I thought.
The effective range of an FPV drone is almost contact distance. Standoff is maybe pic related if you get super fancy.

>>63972284 (OP)
>One-half football field
Really not beating the allegations that they'll measure in literally anything but metric huh
This is some fuckin ACME shit though for real, what in God's name are they thinking lol

>>63976175
Do you think a group of military age males in Argentina, Brazil or Mexico would not immediately and intuitively know how to judge
>half a futbol field?
You are just insecure because you don't understand what it means. And you desperately need A N Y excuse to criticize the US, since you know you are inferior in every way

>>63976173
Holy reading comprehnetion batman, I was saying the Abrams has ~3km range here >>63972662

>>63976185
No, it's just funny. Seethe harder + dilate.

>>63976175
There isn't an American who wouldn't know what "half a football field" meant, so what's the problem?

>>63972284 (OP)
>bringing back canister shot after trying to get rid of it
>expecting tankers to look out for drones and target them with the main cannon
>none of the tanks have cope cages or side protection
Man the war in Iran is going to be a big wakeup call huh...

>>63976033
If you’re worried about emissions, you can have some sort of camera with image recognition that is constantly passively scanning for drones, and which turns on a targeting radar that looks for both extremely fast movement and the radar signature of propellors when a possible target is detected. Though most new tanks coming out have APS fitted, so their emissions probably aren’t that much of a concern.

>>63972284 (OP)
Hegseth is such a fucking retard. This reeks of boomers knowing drones are a big deal but have no clue about how they actually work in a battle. All they need to do is replace the loaders 240 with a minigun on one tank in each platoon

>>63976336
what an interesting idea

>>63975988
>>63975992
>>63975992
Already done.
>>63972802

But US mil would better stick to good ol football field, thank you very much.

>>63976341
>he thinks he can hit drone with eyeball lead aiming

>>63972708
The stupid fucked up wire things.... work?

There's no fucking way we don't live in the clown timeline. Fucking hell.

>>63978514
The drones propellers get entangled by them

>>63978514
>Translated Luftwaffe officer's response upon learning about chaff deployment by the British

>>63978514
This is just a mine clearing vehicle with no ammo onboard. If HEAT jet doesn't hit anything that can blow then it does nothing. I don't know why they wasted 60 drones on something already detracked by mine with no weapon.

>>63978605
So it won't be recovered.

>>63976481
>he thinks that was what was being implied
keep trying

>>63976173
Anon, are you a fucking moron?

>Hey guys, in the unlikely event you come across a drone that gets within gunrange, here's some basic instructions on how to shoot it down until we can get some more appropriate assets to deal with that shit
>"AHAHAHA, FOOLISH BURGERS, YOU ARE HELPLESS IN THE FACE OF WISH.COM PRODUCT AND ARE ALSO STUPID AND DUMB"
Someone help me understand this line of thought

>>63979001
It's 100% insecurity

>>63979001
It's just retards being retards who do not understand the chaos of the war.
You just gotta do what you gotta do, with what you have even in the shittiest of the situations.

>>63979001
Not only that, the previous versions of the manual covered how to engage aerial targets, and it's not like quadcopters are any more resistant to tungsten buckshot than attack helicopters or fixed-wing UAVs are.

>on the zero line
>with confirmed enemy FPV threat
>just open your hatch and wave bro
tactical advantage?

>>63972311
Tank round skeet shooting when?

>>63972523
>Don't be measuring them using your little dicks for reference or we'll be here all day

Meanwhile Russia has perfected modern antidrone tactics
>see drone
>magdump your comrade as an offering
Try to keep up hato

Why don't we already have CROWS autonomously tracking drones and shoot them down/have the operator press the trigger.

>>63982006
What level of Ork BS have we reached

>>63979001
>Hey guys, in the unlikely event you come across a drone that gets within gunrange,
You will come across one or fifty every time you go over a hill. The reality of modern warfare is that even with perfect air dominance a Chinese squad can pop out of a tunnel and deploy 12 fiber optics.

The doctrine is 100% retarded and both Ukrainians and Russians had a laugh about it.

>>63979001
Nice cope, just ask Russian and Ukrainian mechanised and motorised units who've had to cross an open field in Ukraine

>>63982462
>>63982483
You are brown.

>>63982755
t.

>>63982462
you will never have your dreadnought event, bugman

>>63976034
you need to know the size of the drone to know what a "football field" ahead of it means. Is it a tiny drone close? Or big drone far away?

>>63972639
so why do most of them get shot down in Ukraine and they have to spam them?

>>63972635
Go overdose on drugs, Elon.

>>63978514
it works against AliExpress drones, yes.

>>63974754
cause they're internet addicts

>>63976481
why do they shoot down your precious dink drones with machine guns and rifles in Ukraine then if you can't

>>63979001
it's called being a /int/ gooner who can't see a white woman without cumming in his pants

>>63972284 (OP)
>Just shoot the quadcopter drones with the tanks machineguns duh:
the solution was so obvious and always there right in front of me. how did i not see it?

>>63972311
>Not the machine guns but the main gun firing canister shots

Read the text on the image nigga, the coaxial or cannister.

>>63972284 (OP)
>ONE-HALF FOOTBALL FIELD
I'm dying kek

>>63984865
is there something amusing/nonsensical I don't get about this because I'm not a turdie?

>>63984905
one-half short bus in front of nose gridiron metric system

>>63984905
Retard foreigners cannot grasp that your typical American tanker has probably seen a football field before and that these basic field manuals have historically used layman concepts to convey instruction, going back over a century. Don't try to understand them, just know they're fucking dumb.

>A field with built in measurements is not a good on the fly reference.
Sorry you are too dumb to figure out what a yard is.

>>63984973
calling other people dumb and retarded while you're advocating for "one half football field" as unit of measure. craziest shit I've seen today and really tells why modern america has to import hundreds of thousands of h1b jeets to think for them.

>>63985016
Like I said, you're just dumb, but that comes with the territory of your skin color.

>>63985008
seriously, imagine how dense you have to be to get filtered by a fucking military field manual.

these threads have been absolutely eye-opening, it shows that your typical foreigner tourist here doesn't understand the concepts for quick visual references, redundancies, or contingency plans. is it any wonder that they have managed to remain irrelevant on the global stage, and will continue to be so?

>>63985016
>anon is shocked and confused why military would want to make things understandable to the lowest common denominator
Are you fucking with me?

Translated for delicate non-american minds.

>>63985016
>advocating for "one half football field" as unit of measure.
IT LITERALLY IS MADE UP OF UNITS OF MEASUREMENT YOU SWARTHY RETARD

>>63972284 (OP)
>ONE-HALF FOOTBALL FIELD
fuck niggerball people

it's 100% a total disgust for the cultural decay of this gay ass country

>>63985133
>50 YARDS
>ONE-HALF FOOTBALL FIELD
dear lowest common denominator, which of the above sentences is simpler to read, type and use less ink in a physical manual?

>>63985338
You're not American. If you were, using a football field as unit of measurement would sound perfectly natural.

>>63985342
You are such a stupid, irrelevant brown monkey that I'm delighted you have zero bearing on what constitutes an effective military here. You deserve to be where and what you are.

>>63985389
Can you draw a fixed wing drone on this field?

>>63985318
"Football field" is not a standard unit of measurement. In some countries they're 100 meters long, in other countries they're 110. And in Australia they can get as long as 150 meters. It's a completely arbitrary statement.

>>63972284 (OP)
Imagine how hard your boys will pop off if you hit this shot though.

>>63985596
>in other countries
Shitholeistan can use whatever shitholeball sportfield they want in their manuals.
In US manuals we use American football fields which are all (standardized) at 100 yards. Any American who has graduated high school and can point a rifle the right direction knows what a US football field looks like

>>63985668
Thanks for proving my point, retard.
What if someone doesn't watch or play "American" football, but instead regular football? What then, faggot?

>>63985596
>In some countries
>in other countries
this is a manual for American fucking tankers you absolute waste of semen

Guys I think this was it. After years and years, this was the thread that finally made me fully realize how abjectly retarded the third-worlders that come here are. They just aren't ready for exposure to the outside world and, honestly, shouldn't have been allowed to have smartphones. It's for their benefit as much as it is ours. They just aren't ready.

>>63985596
>"Football field" is not a standard unit of measurement
For 99.5% of the kind of people who join the military, especially the Army, and double especially the Armor Branch, it might as well be. Nigger.

>>63985707
Then that person will be shot by someone reading a US Army manual, not reading it themselves.

Amazing how much goalpost moving and outright seething the suggestion of just using regular measurements causes an American.

>>63972523
>Russians mindlessly copy doctrine
>it says shoot 1/2 football field!
>do so
>because they think soccer is football they fucking miss
>get sent to the moon by imperial measurements (again)
We won inchbros.

>>63976261
>when Europeons use French measurements of the vibrations of dildoium measured at the north pole for .000001 of a second (3rd revision)
>STILL CAN'T GET TO THE FUCKING MOON
Metric peasants stay losing.

>>63979001
It's unironically 3rd world retardation. Look at the IQ map and you'll understand.

>>63981989
Visibility. A FPV would lose effect going down the hatch.
>reeee
M1's don't have a ammo bomb in their fucking crew compartment.

>>63982800
>shows pictures of Mexicans
Sigh.

>>63985016
>shitskin can't understand simplicity
WEW

>>63985110
WHY DO YOU THINK WHERE THEY LIVE ARE SUCH UTTER SHITHOLES. They are legitimately retarded, the threshold of mental retardation used to be 90, but that made 3/4ths of the planet mentally retarded and leftists bitched about it.

>>63985807
Metric peasants are what got you to the moon, dummy, til this very day NASA and other aerospace firms use metric and not your silly little measuring system

>>63975403
Sorry but you're the retarded one in this conversation.

>>63985544
>misses the other guidebooks that shows how to do this
Bruh

>>63979001
Basing your shit on a non-standard non-universal unit of measurement is retarded. It's based on assumptions that 100% of your military played american football for years. Which might have been close to truth like 50-100 years ago, but these days? Doubtful. A ton of those soldiers are nerds who'd never played shit or played soccer instead or god forbid some gay shit like lacrosse. A ton of your soldiers these days are women, asians and other migrant browns.

>>63985318
All units of measurement are made up thirdie

>>63985596
>thinks soccer is football
YOU. ARE BROWN.
>such a racemixed sport that they can't have a standard field
Lol, lamo.

>>63985721
Nah it's actually great to laugh at them.

>>63985785
>regular
>completely fictional and arbitrary measurements
What's metric on, like it's 4th revision?

>>63985846
>dosen't know
>aviation
LAMO
>dosen't know about firearms either
They still use grains because it's a finer system.

>>63985853
>being this wrong about everything
Wew.

>>63985880
Bruh, you're delusional as a russian. Similar to those who'd compile these instructions. They aren't too different from russian pic related.P

>>63985888
>coping and seething this hard
>F117
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

>>63985904
>HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
You haven't seen nothing yet

>>63985914
>shovels
That's for RPG's you drooling moron.
>>63985919
For sabotage and destruction on the runway this is actually correct. Seethe more.

>>63985184
A hectometre is 80m
on half of an american football field is 55m, which does not have a special word to describe it

>>63985086
>>63985133
>>63985318
>>63985833
Like flies to the shit, dumb fucks.

>>63985867
I'll have you know using the speed of light in a vacuum and the natural frequency of a Cesium-133 atom to measure everyday distances is both natural and intuitive.

>>63985846
Not seeing any kilometers or decipascals here...

This is it. This is the thread that will be referenced in history books as the exact point where the USA became a brown third-world nation browner than China and Russia (possibly browner than Iran and North Korea).

>>63979001
>making any attempt to rationalize the ramblings of streetshitters and slav(e)groids
Don't