Thread 63972335

SOCOM Halves OA-1K Armed Overwatch Buy for 2026

>U.S. Special Operations Command is once again slowing its purchases of the new OA-1K Skyraider II multipurpose counterinsurgency plane, as the Pentagon pivots its budget to prepare for a high-end conflict following two decades of wars in the Middle East, officials told Air & Space Forces Magazine.

>The command is planning on cutting its fiscal 2026 buy by half, from 12 aircraft to just six. That move follows on a cut in fiscal 2025, from 15 to 12.

Looks like AFSOC really hates the Air Tractor

https://www.airandspaceforces.com/socom-oa-1k-armed-overwatch-cut-2026/

Fucking hell, will you burgers ever actually follow through with an order?

>>63972375
in this case it actually makes sense, the USAF never wanted the Air Tractor, they wanted the A-29

>>63972335 (OP)
>I'm CANCELLING
the canceeeeeelloor

>>63972335 (OP)
Its 12 fucking cropdusters, cant you just leave them on a backlot? Its not like counter insurgencies are going to have a collective pause if things kick off with China.

>>63972335 (OP)
either get the tucano or the cheapest jet trainer/lca

>>63972389
>Its 12 fucking cropdusters
6 now

>>63972375
I always follow through with my mcdonalds order

>>63972389
By the time we get into another counter insurgency slog we'll likely be deploying drones.

>>63973303
We already have been for 20 years. Pilots eyes on the ground is a cope for infantry thinking having a dude up there makes them more effective. It doesn't. Anything the infantry the see the drone can engage. A drone also has a top down view of stuff infantry can't see and some crop duster doing WW2 style bomb drops is peak STUPID when you can have an essentially unlimited duration drone on station covering you the whole time.

The problem is authorizing drones to bomb shit which takes more time than a pilot on station but that's not an equipment issue.

>>63972335 (OP)
whomst persons with a function brain above 2% capability
thought this was nothing more than a scam to pilfer tax dollars?

1.6 million dollar plane available on the civ market
stick a FLIR, some armored glass and hardpoints on the wings
That'll be 50 million dollars Mr Taxpayer

>>63973338
It was actually forced upon SOCOM by a bunch of congresscritters.
Initially, they wanted the Super Taco >>63972379 (as the least worst option). However, either through deliberate sabotage, or virulent retardation, Sierra Nevada Corp never offered it, going instead with an armed version of the PZL M28, despite the tender being for a single-engine plane.

I suspect whomever was in charge at Sierra Nevada got paid off by Beechcraft to throw the contest, so the T-6 II would win instead. Thing is, Beechcraft likely underestimated how utterly hated they actually were (by the service guys), end result being that the crappiest option won, just because it wasn't Beechcraft.

>>63973338
>to pilfer tax dollars?
It was chosen because it wasn't the AT-6, AFSOC wanted the A-29 since it did win every competition

>>63973402
>either through deliberate sabotage, or virulent retardation, Sierra Nevada Corp never offered it
It was, the A-29 won every competition, but then the competition would end with no one selected, eventually Sierra Nevada saw the writing on the wall and didn't enter the A-29 in the most recent one. There was 3 different competitions

>>63973518
But that's dumb. If you think you're getting stonewalled, force them to kick you out, so you can sue them for the tasty legal gibs.
Don't just smack your own nuts with a hammer.

>>63973457
how does a country of monkeys make pretty good aircraft?

>>63973329
Pilots eyes on the ground is a long dead excuse today, but it was a valid reason in its own original era of the early 2000s when drones meant a Predator with a shitty 2000s camera jerking around while a glowie peered down the straw from behind a series of different radio interfaces and bureacratic layers.

>>63973641
If I had to guess it's just due to their geography and economy, you're greatest trade deals are probably by air

>>63973457
>it did win every competition
in the previous bids, not in the one that actually awarded a contract.

If they had submitted the A-29 again they at least could've tried going to court, instead they just look retarded.

>>63973732
It was going on for 10 plus years, all due to Beechcraft being retarded. The A-29 won back in like 2011 after it won the Afghan contract

>In 2011 the House Armed Services Committee moved to block funding for the program until the requirements and acquisition were validated.[12]

>In November 2011 it was revealed that the Beechcraft AT-6B had been excluded from the competition by the USAF, leaving the Embraer A-29 the probable winner, with a contract expected to be awarded in December 2011.[13] According to GAO: “the Air Force concluded that HBDC [Hawker Beechcraft Defense Company] had not adequately corrected deficiencies in its proposal. In this regard, the agency concluded that multiple deficiencies and significant weaknesses found in HBDC’s proposal make it technically unacceptable and results in unacceptable mission capability risk”. Hawker Beechcraft's protest against its exclusion was dismissed.[14]

>On December 30, 2011, the USAF announced that the A-29 had been awarded the contract.[15] But the contract award was disputed and a stop-work was issued the following January.[16] All motions will be due to U.S. Court of Federal Claim by March 6, 2012.[17]

>A re-awarding of the contract was expected in January 2013,[18] but was delayed a few months.[19] The A-29 was reawarded the contract on February 27, 2013.[20][21] And Beechcraft again challenged the contract.[22] But the USAF ordered that the construction start anyway.[23] Beechcraft's allies in the Kansas Republican congressional delegation then called for the work to be stopped,[24] while Embraer's Floridan congressional allies praised the USAF's move.[25] The USAF has instructed for work to continue unless a federal court orders otherwise.[26] The United States Court of Federal Claims upheld the USAF's decision to proceed with the contract work.[27]

>>63973759
Im well aware of the full picture, it still doesn't excuse Sierra Nevada from submitting their own bullshit design instead of submitting the A-29 again.

>>63973773
A subvariant of the PZL M28 had been previously used by SOCOM for a while, so it wasn't *completely* retarded.
But it's pretty obvious SNC were being heavily jebaited to re-enter the A-29, and they fell for it, instead of just going "YOLO, MA NIGGAZ", and keeping the show on until Beechcraft's political backers eventually/invariably made a mistake.

>>63972335 (OP)
>as the Pentagon pivots its budget to prepare for a high-end conflict
>by cancelling every procurement program undertaken in the past decade
cool, thanks pete
>>63972375

>>63973303
USAFRICOM would be involved in counter-insurgency operations 24/7/365 if the US political system wasn't fucking retarded.

>>63973329
Situational awareness is vastly inferior for drones. Having dedicated optics as well as eyeballs Mk. 1 in the cockpit will always be superior to having some guy jerk himself off in a container in Texas while he's trying to figure out what's going on on the ground through the drone's eyes alone.

>>63972379
USAF never wanted a COIN light attack aircraft.That is why they went on jihad to prevent one from being selected until wars that shit was supposed to be for and were needed for as URGENT OPERATIONAL REQUIREMENT ended. USAF fought for tooth and nail to not provide boots on the ground to close air support they needed. It involved both USAF and selected US politicians from Kansas to make that reality,

>>63972389
Those crop dusters each cost 1/3rd of F-35

>>63973641
>how does a country of monkeys make pretty good aircraft?
Embraer knows exactly what they need to design/build without the US's infamously design-creep-infested defense industry fucking over things like funding and timelines. Brazil supposedly made a really good tank back in the 80s/90s, but got forced out of the Saudi contract by the US with its Abrams. Being a poor nation at the time, Brazil couldn't afford local production by themselves and needed at least one international buyer in order to collect the funding needed to build the tanks

>>63974962
This, the A-29 has economies of scale and almost no one uses the air tractor

>>63973338
No way it's 50 million. The M346FA and the FA-50 are both less than that while being jets with AESA radar and other fancer stuff.

>>63978942
some how the contract has a ceiling of $3billion

>The initial contract is for $170 million, with a ceiling of $3 billion for purchase of the full fleet. The plan is for five squadrons of 15 planes, one deployed at a time, three undergoing maintenance, and one for training. Initial service entry is expected in 2026, with all delivered and full operating capability reached in 2029.[15][16][17] The AT-802U was given the military designation OA-1K.[18][19]

>>63976809
There are over 1000 AT-802s vs ~300 Super Toucans

>>63979003
Does the OA1 really use the avionics from the crop duster? That seems unlikely to me.

>>63978982
How is that not money laundering

>>63979038
I can't imagine the retrofit process is all that complicated. Hardest part is probably running the wiring for the targeting pod and hardpoints.

>>63979077
Hint: it is.

>>63979038
>>63979088
Aircraft like this are designed to be modular/reconfigurable to some extent.
>>63979077
>>63979119
buying something isn't money laundering

>>63979038
>>63979088
>>63979134

>>63979134
Buying something at an overpriced price is literally the easiest form of money laundering

>>63979088
>COIN plane
>vulnerable to small arm fire
Lmao

>>63979193
Money laundering is funneling money you already have through a legitimate business (that you own) in order to conceal its true origin. Paying someone in exchange for goods or services is just a normal fucking transaction.
>>63979201
Find me any modern combat aircraft that wouldn't mind getting lit up by small arms. You're not going to be able to hit it when it's dropping JDAMs on you from 10k feet.

>>63979235
True, it's most likely corruption

>>63972335 (OP)
Should have bought Brazilian or the Textron jet

>>63973303
>midwit nerd drone fetishism
The US already has, they were the first ones to do it. Go play with silverware with Elon.

>>63973329
>essentially unlimited duration
Doesn't exist. Do you work as a lobbyist?

>>63975536
It's a bit deeper than that, Engesa had filled itself up with debt because the CEO thought the Cold War was never going to end and when the Cold War ended and there was no more demand for weapons they couldn't pay the debts and shut down. Being a relatively small company compared to all the massive big US and European conglomerates, they didn't have much of a choice.

>>63979003
The A-29 has been adopted by like 20 countries, this specific variant of the air tractor has only been adopted by the US and it's initial order is half now

>>63980078
>this specific variant of the air tractor has only been adopted by the US
You have to specify that because otherwise you'd have to admit that there are more than 3 times as many air tractors out there, and they're built in the US instead of Brasil.

I personally like the Super Tucano more

>>63974936
Hear me out: merge USAF with the Army, let them be free after they learn to behave
uppity niggers for 80 years straight

>>63979557
>Referencing Elon unprompted
Here's the only reply you're gonna get

>>63972335 (OP)
It's a shitbox WITH NO EJECTION SEAT which is completely retarded.

>>63980340
>Hear me out
End the Key West Agreement, give Army Warrant Officers A-29s

>>63980249
>3 times as many air tractors out there
Yes actual crop dusters, not AT-802Us

>>63981292
The parts that would need regular maintenance are the same.

>>63981322
Anon, the brunt of the cost is coming from the avionics

>>63981548
Ok, and?

>>63981275
Shit, that alone ought to disqualify it. USAF pilots are worth tens, even hundreds of millions, needlessly losing one to avoidable operational causes like an engine-out is the epitome of chasing pennies in front of a steamroller.

>>63981275
By comparison, the A-29 uses Martin-Baker zero-zero ejection seats.

>>63981275
Damn that’s retarded. I would NOT want to fly into an active warzone with no ejection seat. Then again, rotortards do just that.

>clearly the only one who checked all the boxes
>still didn't win because >hurr durr not american
>even though it uses an American engine and they have an assembly line of the aircraft in Florida

And i'm telling it now, it's gonna be the same shit when they finally decide to replace the C-130.

>>63980249
>and they're built in the US instead of Brasil.
They're assembled in the US by Sierra Nevada

>>63983746
How hard is it to grasp the idea that they want the spare parts made cheaply and domestically? They don't want to have to rely on importing landing gear or radiator hoses or whatever the fuck from Brasil.
Air Tractor is the better option for that reason. The supply chain is all US and has been running for close to 30 years.

I still think the A-29 is the cooler plane.

Cancel this whole thing and buy Textron Scorpions in vast numbers instead.

>>63972335 (OP)
Could they short-field land an OA-1K (or an A-29 for that matter) on a carrier, or even an LHD?

>>63984142
Navy Specwar did it with their A-29B test bed

>>63981285
This.

>>63981275
this is the reformers dream plane lmao

>>63972379
The airforce wants nothing to do with Close Air Support. My boss flew A-10s and has explained this to me. the CAS mission detracts away from the core, sexy missions like strategic bombing, air superiority, and strategic airlift. The "bomber generals" mentality runs deep.

>>63981285
So much this. Have a Skyraider

>>63972335 (OP)
Ground pound

>>63981285
I would try to go (sneak, medical issues) through the street to seat program to fly it.

This is emblematic of problems with all of US armed forces.
Tiny numbers at extreme prices. Even for systems with very basic capabilities the cost is always through the roof. And then everyone is surprised how China can build a bigger force for a fraction of the price.

>>63972379

The Air Force is actually insulted if the Army asks for forward air support. They think it's SO blue collar.

>>63991755
>And then everyone is surprised how China can build a bigger force
China can't, there's a reason why China's vessels can't leave it's territorial waters. It's why everyone talks about their shipbuilding "capabilities" and not its actualities

>>63992490
Not the anon that you were talking to. But I am worried if there ever was a cinflict with China most of our equipment is tired from our time during GWOT. Time on airframes dropping bombs on Hajis is still time on the airframes. I mean look at the B-2 fleet. They performed well over Iran, but one of the earlier block B-2s that was being used as a decoy had issues. Also I worry about what the other anon worried about with us is the ability to replace losses. But there are honestly still to many unknowns with Chinas military. Like sure Pakistan did splash at least one Rafale, but India has pretty much always gotten dabbed on by China in conflicts so that isn't really anything to go by.

>>63972335 (OP)
>>63972363
what are those even good for? dropping bombs on undefended middle eastern kindergartens? just strap a barrel bomb to the bottom of a cessna, it'll be exactly as effective at killing unarmed brown children

>>63992782
If there is a war with China, I'm guessing most of it will be in the air and the sea.

>>63992917
>what are those even good for?
Cartels and IS affiliate groups in Africa

>>63983778
>cheaply and domestically
>after you overpaid 50 million usd each for a propduster

>>63972375
>Cold War ends, cancel projects because we're already unbeatable
>Begin planning for future wars
>GWOT begins and we throw all of that out to bomb camel herders
>Begin planning for forever wars
>China rearms and Ukraine gets invaded
>Begin planning for conventional wars
>drones go BZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
>HOLY SHIT BUY DRONES
>DRONES DRONES DRONES

I blame Donald Rumsfeld.

Slow aircraft will be less and less useful as manpads and drones become common.
After the fall of the Soviets there was a reduction in proxy armed rebels equipped with the latest equipment of a enemy power.
Now with Russia, North Korea, Iran, and maybe China, all ready to supply manpads to anyone the US faces, the days of lazily straffing third worlders in an ultra cost effective prop plane are about over.
We had a mostly one world government during gwot. With most equipment made after the 1980s on one side. After the Ukraine conflict that is changed.
The Houthis are a great example of what basic future rebel opponents will be.
Armed with drones, manpads, etc