Skynex downing 7 Sharthead drone

These thirdie cope drones have always been obviously countered by (western) SHORAD. 4000 dollars per interception vs. 50k dollars per drone not incl. personnel and logistics costs

Holy kino, how many of these things do Ukraine have?

>>63977262 (OP)
AHEAD (and similar flak rounds) is extremely lethal against any type of drone. Only issue is short range, requiring large numbers of units.

>>63977262 (OP)
/K/INO

>>63977262 (OP)
>73 mil € for one system
kinda high innit? stationary too seems easy to take out with a decent amount of drones

>>63977291
We all already knew this right?
AHEAD predates the Ukraine war and Gepards have been downing drones nonstop since the entered the fray
It has always been obvious that programmable airburst shells were a hard counter to drones, and it has always been obvious that this was the direction hard kill capability would take, at least to me

>>63977330
The turret can be mounted on a chassis (see Skyranger), however the trugg-based version is easier to build and crew.

>>63977330
>stationary
its a modular technical, the whole system is palletised and mounted to the back of a truck

>>63977334
>We all already knew this right?
The melanated individuals on this website didn't get the memo.

>>63977334
>AHEAD predates the Ukraine war
By well over a decade. It was developed circa early-mid '00s, though, amusingly, nobody knew what to do with it, and the couple militaries who bought the system were considered suckers.

>>63977262 (OP)
I use the ZSU-37-2 in war thunder to kill sharthead recon micro drones. The game aims for you as that is how the radar gun system is in game. The shells for the yenisei are just HE so its not advanced munitions like the skynex. Similar caliber and rate of fire though to the skynex.

>>63977346
Mid 90s.

>>63977330
Isn't that the cost for a battery with fire control?

>>63977374
no idea just checked a source real quick
https://breakingdefense.com/2025/01/italy-sets-up-289-million-skynex-air-defense-deal-with-rheinmetall/

>>63977371
I'd always assumed it had emerged with (or a bit before) that paywave credit card tech since as I understand it that's the same technology the gun uses to program its shells

>>63977344
>the whole system is palletised and mounted to the back of a truck
now I want to see skyranger on a pickup truck

>>63977398
I want to see someone rig the thing to fire on the move
Like a PT boat for the road

>>63977390
IIRC it's an early application of NFC tech.

>>63977383
Maybe read your source first before posting nigger
>Each Skynex system comprises of a sensor and tracking unit for air surveillance, a control station and four Revolver Gun Mk3 35mm firing units.

>>63977421
>radar post, control station, and 4 MGS turrets for €73 million
Pretty cheap, tbdesu.

>>63977390
I have a source for the system dated 1994 with it available for export, so that's the latest it could have been.

Imagine ziggers showing a gun that can hit a cessna.

>>63977527
Saar have you considered Pantsaar

>>63977516
>>63977390

>>63977527
>Imagine ziggers showing a gun that can hit a cessna.
the worthwhile news here is, that Skynex reliably shot those down for pennies

if you spend ~5k€ downing a ~$48k drone, that's pretty good
even better if you can do so really reliably with a high success rate

and that's skynex
a couple more systems invalidate basically the whole Shahed production Russia and Iran build

>>63977553
Here's a color photo of that AIM-4 missile used as a target.

>>63977587
Neato. Where'd that come from? How'd you correlate your pic and what I posted so fast?

>>63977601
I had it in my random military equipment photo archive for some while. You can see the background image is the same as the b&w repro in the article.

>>63977587
noice

>>63977262 (OP)
Germanic warcrime

>>63977311
According to Wiki they've just got two from Germany. If one managed to hit 7 in a day then 100 of these should be able to daily mitigate the shasneed spam from Russia.

>>63977609
Nice, good spot. I didn't doubt they were they same missile, that was clear, I was just curious how you pulled another photo of the right missile up so fast.

>>63977638
Shartsneeds have >90% failure rate so they only need ten systems.

>>63977344
>the whole system is palletised
We can put it on a forklift

>>63977311
Two batteries I think, so around 8 guns.

>>63977638
>>63977845
The whole battery system is retarded.
They should have singular turrets with independent fire control system so that for the same price you can protect more targets.
Let me guess, the reason is some German retardation about having 200% guarantee of not letting anything through of a massive wave. Simply wasteful.

>>63977948
Having a big powerful radar on every gun would make it a lot more expensive, this way instead you can have just one main radar to track every target, while every gun has a cheaper one for fire control. You also need a control system, so you can slot in new systems like missile defence or lasers depending on your needs.

>>63977948
>for the same cost
How are 4x the radar systems supposed to be cheaper than 1x?

>>63977948
>the reason is some German retardation about having 200% guarantee of not letting anything through of a massive wave
yeah
but with very good reason

Skynex was specifically developed to protect highly critical infrastructure
and the Bundeswehr ordered them for exactly this

Ukraine is now using them as general purpose, wide area drone protection
which works... flawlessly
but as you said, is over the top and somewhat wasteful

still doesn't matter for Ukraine
because it's that or nothing

curious how this thread is ignored by shaheed shills

>>63977834
Great idea. I know just the guy for the job

>>63977994
They should use camera + IR + laser rangefinder for targeting anyway.
Radars are gay and retarded

>>63977995
>>63978546

>>63978456
It's a btr-4 module with some plywood around it.

You can't forget this crosshair jumping all over the place, or the image disappearing, when it is firing.

>literally some 30mm autocannon
>omg omg omg gamechanger

>>63977262 (OP)
Wew, shit, those are some beeg explosions.
No wonder the F-16 guy bought it, after trying to nail one of those with his gun.

>>63978568
>this is your brain on melanin and pervasive smell of open sewage

>>63977553
>>63977587
>Fire a 10 round burst with a legacy anti air system with traditional impact fuze rounds
>You have 10 rounds in the air with a 20% hit chance translates into only 2 rounds hitting the target

But with AHEAD ammo
>Fire 10 round burst
>Have 1000-2000 projectiles in the air with a 20% hit chance meaning 200-400 projectiles hitting the target
>Even with a reduced 5% hit chance it still translates into 50-100 hits on target

How is this not NATO standard yet? It is such a obvious upgrade to anti air capability. Everyone should have it if they are serious about shooting anything that flies. On the wiki it says that the PMD428 round has 675 sub-projectiles, with a 10 round burst that is 6750 projectiles in the air. No drone or UAV can dodge that or tank it.

>>63978673
>Fire a 10 round burst with a legacy anti air system with traditional impact fuze rounds
>You have 10 rounds in the air with a 20% hit chance translates into only 2 rounds hitting the target
IIRC it's actually worse than that. Classic direct impact rounds have sub-10% hit rates.

Man I've missed some actual kino from
Ukraine. Long gone are the days of 4K clips of (unsupported) tanks and TOS-1 being blown to smithereens on country roads

>>63977344
>palletised
confirmed super weapon. Also, outed as bong. Still waiting for you to send Boris Johnson to eliminate donbas

>>63977810
they have such a high failure rate because of stuff like this shooting them down retard

>>63978568
>the weapon that currently represents the vast majority of Russia's long range strike capability is hard countered by literally some 30mm autocannon
grim
they'll be completely negated once people start fielding actual cost effective systems
the most impotent fighting force in the world

>>63977262 (OP)
Hollywood gorgeous
what a time to be alive

>>63978801
And EW
And rifles
And ZSUs
And their retarded and unreliable design
And their shitty CEP
And so on

>>63978885
Is this supposed to be a gotcha?
My point is that the failure rate is because they are being made to fail.

>>63978892
Why would you design a weapon system thats built to fail? Are Russians and Iranians fucking retarded?

>>63978924
>Are Russians and Iranians fucking retarded?
Yes, actually. Almost as retarded as (You)

>>63978924
>Why would you design a weapon system thats built to fail?
why indeed

>>63979010
>defensive weapon system doing what it's supposed to (confusing offesinve weapons)
vs.
>offensive weapon system not doing what it's supposed to (reach its target and explode)

>>63979029
they're using Shasneeds to decoy for Kalibrs now

>>63977291
>4000 dollars per interception
given that the system intercepted 7 drones, that would mean the system plus ammo used and operating costs is $28000 (assuming it's one system and not several)

>>63979058
Cope
Your shitty inacurrate moped drone is a complete waste of time and neutered by a cheap SHORAD
Kalibr is also complete garbage

too bad skynet couldn't stop a geran from blowing up this ukrainian radar lmao https://files.catbox.moe/gq3an5.mp4

>>63977291
>>63979081
>4000 dollars per interception
Really? some of those interceptions are literally just a short burst. Gepard shoots way more rounds than Skynex.
I mean, its cost effective positve but looks expensive for just a few he rounds.

>>63979137
Impressiev!

With this most recent achievement, fate has in a single stroke, marked the final decline of the west and spelled a new era of wondrous prosperity and peaceful global dominance for the Russian bear, which promises to firmly stand in sharp contrast to the historically degenerate and homosexual ascent of western powers and the cruel subjugation it brought to the humbler nations of the world. With the blessings of Russian T-90M's, Kinzhal missiles and tireless work of FSB and its Russo-Indian internet operatives, these and many more will be the instruments with which Russia affirms its noble place among equals in the 21st century geopolitics and with which it also offers the non-western world a different option; a Duginist alternative to the depredations of Western leadership and the opportunity for a more multipolar world alignment.

>>63977948
Making your gun way more expensive when you're going to want multiple gun in any given location worth protecting anyways is beyond retarded

>>63979170
35mm AHEAD isn't the most cheapest ammo, but it's steadily going down in price as EU ammo manufacturing capacity increases

>>63977330
Now I'm imagining a few of those mounted on trains patrolling around cities.

>>63977334
What's interesting with drones is that they filled a niche where their low cost and long range meant that they could overwhelm AD systems that were intended for higher quality, lower quantity attacks.

That niche was not gonna last forever, but still drone spam allowed Iran to make it trough Israeli AD which is an achievement. Had they made decent missiles they could've done some real damage.

>>63977262 (OP)
>screen shaking when firing
Bruh Germans still in 1945 mode while everyone moved onto stabilization.

>>63978568
You say this yet how many threads have we had of people freaking out about very basic guided munitions and how they're rendered everything else obsolete?

>>63979058
Why would you put warheads on them if they're just decoys?

>>63979313
snownigs can't afford the microelectronics to make them more effective as decoys, and putting a warhead means you can't ignore them entirely, they might still hit something and kill it

>>63979232
>screen shaking when firing
you'll notice that part that matters, the gun, is stabilized though.
tf are you talking about.

>>63979232
Nigger what
Have you seen this thing firing? It's stable as fuck.

>>63979362
Superior german engineering makes the common zigger cope and seethe.

>>63979407
kek,you just reminded me of the wobbling guns on the "terminator" and ka helicopters.

>>63977291
God fucking dammit, war ain't a financial contest. The actual cost is in lives not money. it's all bullshit printed fiat currency anyway.

>>63979498
In the western world, a human life is generally valued at some several million dollars when it comes to health care, accident prevention etc.

>>63979514
Actually the value of a life is not the money that is spent on it, you jew motherfucker. Not even the most Israeli, Chabad, black pimp hat wearing gun-tooting West Bank settler would think that shit. Go back to the US Federal Reserve.

>>63979483
That's on purpose, it spreads out the fire and leads to larger suppression.

>>63979498
>Kindergarten full of kids
vs.
>Retirement home full of old babushkas

Lives aren't equal. If a missile is gonna kill a 90 year old babushka's house are you gonna use a million dollar missile to protect it?

>>63979520
NTA but I assure you that human lives can and ARE costed by economists
we don't make moral decisions on the basis of that costing, but we do calculate how much a person costs, consumes and produces, and use that to make macroeconomic decisions

>>63979362
>>63979367
>clearly talk about the screen (and optronics by extension)
>but da gun
Ever tried to decouple the optics from the gun for less vibration eg what the Americans do?

>>63979772
I don't see the screen rattle much either. You don't know shit about this system.
>eg what the Americans do
Nice try ivan, americans don't feel threatened by german engineering like that.

>>63979780
It clearly rattles after every shot because someone thought mounting the oprtronics on the gun was a good idea. Rheinmetall later even revisioned it on the 30mm version
> Nice try ivan, americans don't feel threatened by german engineering like that.
Implying Russians are scared of Germans lol. You can’t even send Taurus, there is a reason why the enemy of Russia is le Anglo Saxon while Germany is just an old dog barking.

>>63979849
why you mad zigger

>>63977291
Single 35mm AHEAD round costs $1000 and this looks like 30 rds burst. So 30000 dollars per interception not 4000. Not terrible but not great either.

>>63977810
>>63977638
no its because the russians send a bunch of shitty decoy shaheds that dont go boom, which inflates the numbers

>>63978568
Thanks anon, your joke went over their heads but I chuckled at your zigger retardation act.

>>63978834
>literally some 30mm autocannon
35mm, please.

>>63979849
trying too hard with the D&C there vanya

>>63980269
correct the anon I quoted, then

>>63977311
>>63977325

/k/id word

>>63977545
No, that can only hit airliners (so long as it gets a warm up shot first)

>>63977262 (OP)
>sharthead
It's SHATHEED

>>63979498
A russian soldier's life is worth 1 point via the Army of Drones program, which directly translates to $120 USD on the Brave1 marketplace, therefore a russian life is worth around $120 USD. The whole cost is in money

>>63979170
NATO is known for vastly overpaying for shit. honestly the primary cost is the gun if it's only used to shoot down a handful of gerans. note that russia can defeat this air defense simply by flying around it or even just programming gerans to fly high (the effective range of the cannon is 3km while gerans have a service ceiling of 5km)
>>63980720
suppose a high explosive fpv drone costs $1000 and you need 5 of them on average per enemy killed (due to jamming, running out of battery, etc) then this program covers 2.4% of the cost.
all this proves is that hohols are greedy/stingy enough to make a jew blush yet somehow also poor as fuck. granted this was already common knowledge well before the war

>>63980772
>gerans have a service ceiling of 5km
source? The shitty 2S engine would lose nearly half its power at that altitude.

AA shells are inevitably expensive because falling objects pose a danger unless they have a self-destruct function, especially if they are used to defend urban areas.
Cheap direct-hit shells cannot be used even if we want to.

>>63980772
If you destroy a tank it's worth 40 points tho, you can almost buy a baba yaga drone with that (43 points)

>>63980786
the "self-destruct function" is just a few mg of primary explosive at the end of the tracer tail. The pyrotechnic charge is used as a simple fuse. It the closets thing to 'free launch' because shells without tracers for AA are incredibly rare.

>>63978568
btr-4 is ukietech and ukies can't into plywood

>>63980772
>note that russia can defeat this air defense simply by flying around it or even just programming gerans to fly high (the effective range of the cannon is 3km while gerans have a service ceiling of 5km
If by defeat you mean not hitting and being unable to attack whatever they are protecting... yes.

>>63981039
then they fly into some city and kill some civilians. its a win either way.

>>63977311
Just a few for now IIRC

>>63977398
We all do

>>63977948
>for the same price
yeah

>>63980785
Ukraine claims a ceiling of 4km for the geran. Still more than 3km https://war-sanctions.gur.gov.ua/en/uav/336
>>63981039
ukraine generally doesn’t place AA defenses right over the target they’re protecting, probably because there’s too many potential targets. Instead the AA is placed hopefully in the way so that it can shoot at drones as they fly by. So Ukraine has to cover a massive perimeter with AA turrets and Russia gets to choose where the drones break through (while the AA is busy targeting one drone, 10 others fly past it). Classic attackers advantage

>>63978673
>traditional impact fuze rounds
>how is ahead not NATO standard yet?
Because impct fuzes aren't standard, timed or prox fuzes are and have been since shortly after WWII. AHEAD is just improved time fuzing, where the velocity of the round is measured before the timer is set, instead of using the stated or average velocity of the rounds.

>>63980099
zigger liar

>>63981342
>https://war-sanctions.gur.gov.ua/en/uav/336
>length: 3.5m
I still don't understand why someone with access to the real drones would repeat the same, old and incorrect figure, the aspect ratio L:W of those drones is around 1.15:1 for all their variants, the leaked specs of Alabuga shows that only the considerably larger Shahed 236/7 is 3.5m long.
>pic rel shows the 'squarish' ratio

>>63981428
>Because impct fuzes aren't standard, timed or prox fuzes are and have been since shortly after WWII
Yes but isn't mostly the various navies of the world that actually use mainly VT fuze rounds? For ground systems isn't old school impact fuze rounds what is actually being fired and exist in inventori for pretty much everyone?

>Pretty much all 20mm guns are using impact fuze
>Only a few nations for example south africa and Taiwan have adopted AHEAD rounds for it's 35mm guns and they did it before 2022 (Taiwan did it in 2011)
>Every single nation stuck with slav shit 23mm, 30mm guns are still using impact fuze rounds.


I know 40mm bofors systems have been sent to ukraine and I might be retarded but I have not seen any videos of said bofors firing vt fuze rounds at all.

>>63980772
>>63979849
>>63979772
>>63979498
Damn you mad lol

>>63981527
I could be wrong and I don't know stock levels for different countries, but I wouldn't expect to see them on 20mm rounds either way. There's not really enough room or explosives for it to be worth it. Every significant medium and up AA cannon has programmable timed fuzing options for their ammo though. Oerlikon/RM 30mm and 35mm have AHEAD, and I think a vanilla programmable HE-I, Bofors has 3P for 40 and 57mm, Norinco has 35mm PTFP (originally stolen from 80 or 90s Oerlikon tech). Idk what Russia or America have, presumably something.

>>63981440
Go ahead.
What part is wrong?

>>63977262 (OP)
Rheinmetall stock status?

>>63981781
YTD +199%
not memeing

>>63979498
yet geran is the best drone on earth simply because it's cheap and forces the opponent to expend high-cost ammunition to down it, curious!

>>63980099
>this looks like 30 rds burst
IIRC Skynex/Skyranger uses either 10 or 15 round burst (switchable).

>>63981807
That is 2-3 seconds bursts at 1000rds/min cyclic rate.

>>63981800
>reliably countered by munitions a fraction of its own cost
>best
No, the best weapons are still the ones that are not countered or unreliably countered by weapons of any cost.

>>63981813
The rate of fire is adjustable between 200 and 1000RPM. That didn't look like 1000rpm cyclic to me at all, much, much slower.

>>63979498
It's very cute how naive you are. War is 100% a financial contest

>>63981834
that's what I was implying, as suddenly the economics of war doesn't matter when muh geran is countered at a fraction of the drone's cost per interception, but when muh geran is shot down by a 100k+ $ interceptor it's epic ownage because a 50k$ lawnmower drone is shot down by jewed NATOshit or something

>>63981745
Everything, both the cost per round and the number of rounds used.

>>63979849
high triple digits delivery of long range cruise missile analogs (probably some rocket or jet drone shit) in the next days and weeks btw

>>63981241
If the AD system was near the city the drone would be shot down while descending on it's target. You place your short range AD systems close to what you want to protect to begin with.

>>63980772
NATO overpay because they underproduce. Developing next gen high tech wtuff is expensive, and that R&D cost has to be recovered on the units you sell. If you sell very few units their price will seem absurd.

This is like the B2, originally the US govt. intended to purchase 125 of those planes so they spent about a hundred billion dollars developing it. By the time it was done the USSR had collapsed and only about 20 were made, making one of these planes costs 2 Billion.

At some point Congress was upset when they saw that the total cost of the program per airplane was so high, which is normal since that cost was intended to be spread out over five times as many units.

In the end, the US and the West in general can afford it anyway, Russia and the rest of the third world simply can't, which is why they expend their people with dumb tactics and inadequate equipment.

>>63981527
most nations use timed fuzes, not VT

>>63978673
>How is this not NATO standard yet?
combination of
>we want free healthcare and gibs, not guns
and
>end of history, European War never again for the nth time
and
>missiles not guns
and also that AHEAD-type systems are expensive not (just) because of the ammunition, but also because of the gun and radar needed to make best use of the system
otherwise, just use timed fuzes like everyone does
ever heard the saying, to get the last 20% of performance, that's where you spend the 80% of cost?

>>63981725
>Idk what Russia or America have
the Russians just use timed fuzes I think. do they look like they can afford to spend microelectronics on complicated gun systems?

the Americans are the ones who subcontracted Bofors to develop 3P, as well as BAE Systems for ORKA and L3Harris for ALAMO

but the acronym that really takes the cake is DARPA's Multi-Azimuth Defence Fast Intercept Round Engagement System, or MAD-FIRES
as per Navy Lookout,
>Multi-Azimuth Defence Fast Intercept Round Engagement System (MAD-FIRES) also has a rocket motor to extend range and speed. MAD-FIRES is predominately designed to counter the modern missile threat and guides itself onto the target. The seeker can continuously track and engage very fast approaching targets and re-engage any targets that survive the initial engagement. MAD-FIRES will be significantly more expensive than 3P or ALaMO rounds but much cheaper than a Sea Ceptor missile

Having reached the point where it is functionally a tube-launched missile, I think it's not unlikely that it probably goes for like $50,000 a shot

>>63982618
> the Russians just use timed fuzes I think.
They don’t from what we’ve seen they fire dumb rounds without anything, even timed or proximity fuzed

>>63982631
>proximity
those are only used in missiles nowadays
>dumb rounds
when I say "timed" I mean that they have self-destruct fuzes, which is what you would call "dumb" rounds, and for AA shells it's common as dirt

Since the shaheed wunderwaffles are easily defeated by WW2 era AA guns, what'd be the next ziggerstanian "victory weapon"?

>>63981879
You can’t even elect a judge lol

>>63981039
What the fuck are you talking about?
Cruise altitude does not affect the dive into target.

I'm firmly convinced that Moscow is funding retards to say stupid shit like
>>63981039
>not hitting and being unable to attack
in order to convince people that Ukraine doesn't need assistance, so that they can finish the job

Why don't they just fly them to targets that don't have any AAA, like Ukraine always does to their airfields?

>>63979623
In the west they are equal ya dingdong.
I saw my grandpa get airlifted from bumfuck to a metro hospital because of a heart attack. Also, he has old fart friends that were transported either with a helicopter or plane for the same purpose.

>>63977262 (OP)
Based, I want to see these on technicals ASAP.

>>63977291
>>63977334
Most of the world doesn't field SPAA anymore, it's making a rapid comeback thanks to drones but there was a capability gap.
Drones will get higher in responce and interceptor drones will counter them. The race never ends.

>>63977638
Not how reality works anon, these things only have a few km range and if the ziggers see their sneeds not getting though they'll repath them.

>>63978509
Klaus doesn't need a weapons system, just his trusty forklift.

>>63978673
AHEAD is one of many options, I like the BAE 3P 40mm myself.

>>63981800
The geran is not nearly as cheap as Russian propaganda claims. They are now using 12 core GPS chips to reduce vulnerability to jamming, for instance, and the 4 core chip they started with was $28,000 alone in 2023. The idea that the Geran now costs less than $200,000 per shot is a good fucking joke.

>>63982883
>They are now using 12 core GPS chips to reduce vulnerability to jamming
You're out of date, the electronics platform Gerbers use 16.

>>63982883
>>63983006
how does the number of cores reduce GPS jamming

>>63983156
Each can have a different frequency so enemy has to jam 16 different frequencies instead of one or something idk

>>63983160
>idk
That's all you needed to say, or perhaps nothing at all.

>>63983156
>how does the number of cores reduce GPS jamming
It's roughly equivalent to AESA radar but on the reception side, of course AESA does something like this too but for radar rather than GPS.

The keyword to research this is CRPA.
Because you have lots of elements, you can figure out stuff like what direction a signal is coming from, you can also untangle multiple signals and select which ones you like the look of.
You can use it to discard signals coming from the wrong direction (i.e. a GPS signal coming from the ground is an EW platform, dump it), you can also create voids in your reception pattern that exclude jammers and spoofers too.
And you can use it to select just GPS sources that are overhead instead of ones that are on the ground or low in the sky (an aerial EW platform).
The more elements you have, the better you can do this though it's not as simple as just slapping more modules on.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Controlled_reception_pattern_antenna

>>63983156
By "cores" he meant antennas.
With 4 antennas working together (coherent array) you can make an antenna that can detect angle of arrival for any signal (except for blind areas). GPS works by detecting 4 or more signals and lock-in the receiver to all of them, if you can tell apart the approximate location of each transmitter you'll able to tell apart a jammer/spoofer working at ground level vs a satellite in orbit.
That's the basic principle, the algorithm to do that is the important thing.

>inb4 just 4 antennas
You can keep adding more antennas to the same array to improve signal rejection of hostile transmitter or add more bands, some 12 antennas array are actually 2 arrays, 7+5 antennas working for L1 and L2 respectively. Other arrays can have more antennas for different reasons, like track more signals simultaneously. Of course neither side will talk about the topic, not even after the war, it's too autistic and sensitive

>>63983256
> L1 and L2 respectively.
L2 and L1*

>>63978673
My nigger in Christ, every german vehicle that comes with an AC shoots this and can double as CUAS/VSHORAD.

>>63983230
Wouldn't it be easier to just orient the receiver pointing up?

>>63983310
>Wouldn't it be easier to just orient the receiver pointing up?
Apparently not or that's what they'd do and save themselves a load of money.

That said, I think the Gerber's antenna array is in fact oriented up but antenna shapes and directions is pure black magic to me, it's a whole discipline unto itself and you'd need to do a bunch of research.

When considering the costs of these things, keep in mind that those antennas are just the face that you see, there's a load of electronics behind them for signal processing, stuff to do modulating phases and all sorts of bullshit.

>>63982883
>200k for a suicide drone with dubious destructive application, but perfect for terrorizing and saturating vs a AA gun that shoots with €750-1000 per shot
>average salvo is around 8-12 rounds
Skynex keeps winning

>>63982883
Yeah, it’s hilarious how ziggers pretend Shahed price keep dropping as they add more stuff to it
>lets add thermal camera, 16 core gps chip, AI tracking, 40 kg extra warhead, increase size, engine, fuel
>oh price dropped by 50%!!!!

>>63977421
Still not cheap, but I guess they are going to go down alot when more orders come in.

>>63984402
if the whole system with 4 guns and radar costs 90 million and we assume an average salvo of 10 shots making 10k, in around 500 Gerans it would reach parity in cost.
that is if Gerans actually cost 200k.

>>63984413
It's not really about how much the weapons you blow up cost.
It's more about how much the shit you're protecting costs.

>>63984440
oh of course, but its funny to calculate sometimes.
obviously protecting infrastructure and life is important, but just thinking that in 500 Gerans the whole system reached parity is a funny thing. something that can apparently be easily achieved if you look how efficient the burst just rapes the drones.
I wonder how good they are against ballistic missiles

>>63984452
>I wonder how good they are against ballistic missiles
Very poor, due to shit range.
In terms of destructive potential, they're quite capable, see >>63977553, >>63977587, terminal effects with the 152-pellet warhead.
But range is extremely limited, due to them being regular projectiles.
Something like the 76 mm STRALES Dart has an air range of almost 10 km, but there's no land-based version. Leonardo should really get going with that modern-day Skysweeper.

>>63984481
I think the major problem of translating those large caliber naval guns is, that they have actually a whole lot of space beneath them, because they are on a fucking boat. land based systems just can't effectively carry the ammo

>>63984518
Sovraponte (the most compact 76 mm turret, designed for superstructure emplacement) only has 76 rounds anyway.
But each round is equivalent to a missile, since they're fully-maneuvrable.

>>63982831
Not when you don't have the luxury of saving both

>>63981878
>cost per round and the number of rounds used.
last I checked 155mm was 8k per round so his asertion that 35mm is 1k is laughable.

>>63984623
according to kyivindependant, Skynex requires around $4k ammo per target and that article is from September last year

>>63979081
>>63978709
>>63978673
>>63977575
>>63977334
Gepard was stated to need 3-10 rounds to down the sneed drones. Why would skynext use 10 round burst with ammo that has a much higher hit probability.

The whole implementation of those drones is a utter failure. They were supposed to overwhelm soviet radar stations and radar guided AA with masses of drones while NATO low flying bombers commited war crimes. What are russians doing with it? MUH V1 MUH Civilian targets.

The biggest crime europe did in its history was share its technology with the rest of the world. Should have watched more star trek

>>63984668
>skynext uses 10 rounds
>gepard needs 3 to 10 rounds
Are you retarded?

>implementation of those drones is a utter failure. They were supposed to overwhelm soviet radar stations

The German Dornier DAR Dorito was never implemented at scale. Some were made and some were tested, but Germans shelved the concept until the semites did what semites do.

>>63984707
>German Dornier DAR Dorito
GDR D

>>63984668
>Gepard was stated to need 3-10 rounds to down the sneed drones. Why would skynext use 10 round burst with ammo that has a much higher hit probability.
Depends on range.
1 km and 3 km ammo expenditure can differ 10 times.

>>63984623
Check US mil budget. 30mm apache HE point detonation round costs $80. 30x173mm timed airburst HE costs $3000 (RFLMAO). 57mm prox fuse cost $6000.

>>63984623
>155mm was 8k per round
And that only because of demand which shot up. It was less than 2k per round before 2022.

>>63977262 (OP)
effective range - 4km, pretty much useless

>>63984824
It's point defence, you put it next to power plants, sub stations or what ever Putin is throwing drones at today.
Outside of Ukraine expect these to cover every military airfield that isn't in the middle of a city after Spiderweb scared the shit out of everyone.

>>63984804
>Check US mil budget.
Share with all of us a link to where you sourced these figures. I can't find those line items in the last few years.
>30x173mm timed airburst HE costs $3000 (RFLMAO).
That's a developmental program, not even in LRIP production, and I still don't know what the actual CPR is.
>57mm prox fuse cost $6000.
I don't think so, but I can't find an itemised cost. For all intermediate cal gun ammo, the USN spends about $30-40mil per year.

>>63986601
>>63984804
NVM I found an itemised cost for 57mm guided programmable timed/prox fused ammo, and it's $1200/round.

What the fuck are you talking about?

>>63984707
DON'T YOU DARE
compare the magnificent & beautiful Dornier DAR to trashy shahed / geran

Dornier DAR was significantly more advanced and capable
... in 1985

longer range, higher speed, can fly higher, better sensors, can operate actually autonomous
even the Dornier "AI" from the 80s was better than whatever the fuck Iran does

the only "improvement" is that they strapped slightly more explosives onto it
for the price of like only 80% less range kek

>>63986609
sometimes I really wonder how these funky numbers for the calibre sizes come to fruition like
57mm, 76mm

>>63986853
Volume drastically increases with a small increase in diameter so I think it's just deciding on a warhead weight and then deriving the dimensions from there.

>>63986657
One is successful design used in actual war made in thousands, other scrapped prototype made by company that went bankrupt
¯\_(ツ)_/¯

>>63986853
It's caused by converting from an older measurement system.

57mm comes from using the weight of shot as a measurement of the cannon and started life as the 6 pounder designation (specifically the 6lb 7cwt designation, at 2.24 inches). The weight of the shot was more useful for tracking the role of a gun even while the systems for firing them changed. So a 6 pdr was a light-intermediate cannon (of around 3.4in shot diameter) in the late age of sail and the RN carried on allocating guns to ships on the basis of poundage after rifled naval guns became common, because their basic role was the same for the poundage (in the case of the 6pdrs that were the predecessor to the 57mm M1 and 57mm Bofors that we're talking about here, for killing torpedo boats and the predecessors to destroyers).

76mm comes from 3 inches. Nearly all 76mm guns are 76.2mm, exactly 3 inches in diameter.

>>63986982
right, I forgot about meme weight measurements from back in the days.

>>63986982
come to think of it, the 57mm calibre probably is related to the British 6lber which was in use as recently as WW2

>>63986864
it's a tradeoff between these key factors:
lethality, which is most influenced by weight (whether of HE filler or penetrator design)
loading machinery size and weight, which is mainly influenced by both volume and weight of shell
desired rate of fire, which is mainly influenced by loading machinery
and
ballistics, because different shapes, diameters, lengths and weights can perform differently at different ranges and trajectories
if that sounds like very very VERY many combinations of shell design can be cooked up with all these factors, well, YES, that's why it's a long process to find an "optimal" shell, and many users just buy what's available

certain special considerations include provisions for emergency manual reloading

>>63986982
come to think of it, the 57mm calibre probably is related to the British 6lber which was in use as recently as WW2

>>63986864
it's a tradeoff between these key factors:
lethality, which is most influenced by volume (whether of HE filler or penetrator design)
loading machinery size and weight, which is mainly influenced by both volume and weight of shell
desired rate of fire, which is mainly influenced by loading machinery
and
ballistics, because different shapes, diameters, lengths and weights can perform differently at different ranges and trajectories
if that sounds like very very VERY many combinations of shell design can be cooked up with all these factors, well, YES, that's why it's a long process to find an "optimal" shell, and many users just buy what's available

certain special considerations include provisions for emergency manual reloading

>>63979637
Focus on what the other anon said:
>the value of a life is not the money that is spent on it,
the economic value of lives comes from what that person can be expected to earn/supply on average as a member of society

>>63987772
>the economic value of lives comes from what that person can be expected to earn/supply on average as a member of society
Don't you see that your own words imply that a person must contribute through work at least the same amount that was spent raising the person in order to not be a net loss of resources? thus, don't you see that some idea of how much was spent raising the person must be calculated in order to determine the "breakeven" figure?

>>63979637
>we don't make moral decisions on the basis of that costing
This is the key fact in your post.
The zigger anon who believes Ukraine will lose because they save "worthless" lives does not agree with the words you posted there. That's what is being "debated".

Of course there are dollar values you can assign to a life for various purposes; life insurance, some forms of welfare, compensation payments...we're on the same page about how those things work, the reply chain you're commenting on isn't about those things, it's about whether you bother saving people or not.
We're probably on the same page about the obvious and inherent value in saving people's grandparents too.

>>63987783
What was spent matters only so much. A lot more has been spent on old people but the value they still have is lower which often leads to them being evaluated as not as "valuable"
>In 2000, Canada employed a VSL for the over 65-year-olds population that is 25 percent lower than the VSL for the under 65-year-olds population (Hara Associates Inc. 2000).
>In 2001, the European Commission recommended that member countries use a VSL that declines with age (European Commission 2001). In 2002, the US Environmental Protection Agency (EPA), which has traditionally employed a constant value of a statistical life to monetize the benefit value of mortality risk reductions irrespective of the age of the affected population, conducted analyses of the Clear Skies initiative that included a ‘‘senior discount.’’1

>>63986879
>used in actual war made in thousands,
I think that speaks more of the party using that weapon than the weapon itself.

>>63986879
>used in actual war made in thousands
true.
>successful design
kek.

>>63988369
Based Finns, Polacks, Frogs, Swedes, Pastas and so on, not giving a single fuck about how many ziggers were about to die that night, and wishing for more.

>>63987717
>come to think of it, the 57mm calibre probably is related to the British 6lber which was in use as recently as WW2
Yes, that was in my post:
>(in the case of the 6pdrs that were the predecessor to the 57mm M1 and 57mm Bofors that we're talking about here, for killing torpedo boats and the predecessors to destroyers)
The 57mm M1 is just an American made version of the British QF 6pdr.

>>63986601
30x173MM XM1182 HEAB (timed fuse) $966
57MM, 3P MK295 (BA22) (prox fuse) $4695
57MM ALaMO (HE-4G) (guided round prox fuse) $21275

>>63991869
>30x173MM XM1182 HEAB (timed fuse) $966
I think it's cheaper, but less effective, than a 30 mm AHEAD round.
>57MM, 3P MK295 (BA22) (prox fuse) $4695
The 40 mm 3P version is just under $4000, IIRC, so the 57 mm is better here.
>57MM ALaMO (HE-4G) (guided round prox fuse) $21275
Oof, that's kinda pricy. Does anybody know how much a STRALES 76 mm Dart costs?