https://theaviationist.com/2025/07/13/dassault-seeks-80percent-fcas-workshare/

Is FCAS DOA?

>>63983228 (OP)
Why are french such subhuman negroids?

>>63983252
>>63983228 (OP)
Yes pay up piggies and don't forget to say Merci beaucoup for providing you with a program that will be NOT crippled by delay and overcost because we must give a salary to pedro in his backwater town called Santa Siesta or some shit like that.
De rien faggots.

They should modernize the stupid Rafale and its anemic engines.

>>63983228 (OP)
>multinational cooperative program
>France reads this as other countries subsidizing it's domestic industry
For a country that blusters so much about "european unity" they sure do a lot to impede it.

>>63983403
When France says "buy european" they mean "buy french or I'm going to shit on the tablè"

>>63983403
Because they keep getting away with it and germany is stupid enough to pay anyways even when they know better.
See the clusterfuck that Iris2 turned out to be

>>63983403
Cooperative means budget cooperation.
France has the competence and doesn't need random retards delay the project because of bureaucracy and whatnot.

>>63983623
>France has the competence
Then explain Iris2 - the peak french competency

>>63983623
> has the competence
*had
the ones designed the rafale were all already well into their retirement ages ago, if not dead.
What competency does french even have with regard to 5G, much less 6G ?

>>63983252
They actually produce stuff

>>63983623
The random retards delaying the projects are the French though. Showing the same run-down mock-up since 2029 doesn`t exactly inspire confidence in french ingenuity.

FCAS development is a system with 7 pillars, France already as the lead in airframe (Dassault) and engines (Safran). Germany leads the development of the remote carrier and battle cloud. Spain takes care of sensors and stealth coating. Dassault seeks 80% workshare, essentially pushing out their partners and violating the memorandum of understanding and the underlying best athlete principle.

the worst part of multinational projects is that they spend a decade talking about how they should do it

just do it!

>>63983809
Okay, anon, we will talk about your idea during the next meeting.

>>63983228 (OP)
Being a European defence contractor is an endless humiliation ritual

>>63983721
>Germany leads the development of the remote carrier and battle cloud.
So this thing will run on German-made software?

>>63983846
The cloud is co-developed by Indra Sistemas, Airbus Defence, Thales, Atos/Eviden and Hensoldt. Being in the lead doesn`t mean doing everything on your own. The French are pushing for Nexium Defence cloud, letting their partners pay for the further evolution of their system.

>>63983839
only when working with the French

>>63983846
SAP Krieg™

Can a frenchman explain to this german why we should still bother with FCAS, rather than buy Tempest off the shelf? In simple words, please.

>>63983846
Just contract it out to some ukies, they actually make shit which works

>>63983228 (OP)
Yeah it probably is dead. What’s the point of investing into a 6th gen fighter that’s inevitably worse than the American and British ones but at the same time you barely get any workshare? Hell I don’t know about the UK but the US would probably do something similar like the F-35 and let others build parts or assemble it.

>>63983846
I hope so.

>>63983933
C'est très simple. Tu me donnes de l'argent pour le développement et tu achètes ensuite mon produit. Win win.

>hon hon hon.

>>63983648
We are talking about fighter jets.

>>63983228 (OP)

That would be a suicide pact for Dassault. As soon as the Germans find out they are not going to get the aircraft they want the will firstly stop paying for the development and then leave the project altogether leaving Dassault and France on the hook.

>>63984201
I haven't read french in almost 20 years and I understood it, good job franon.

>>63984220
Yeah fighter jets, where communication and networking is a(if not the) major new aspect. And yet the french managed to basically kill european attempts for satellite networking in its infancy

>>63983427
I mean, sometimes, but they did just buy GlobalEye.

We should cut the losses and build large jet drones ourselves. License produce GCAP when it's ready, like Japan did with the F-2. Also leave MGCS, we don't need France for a tank.

>>63983427
>When France says "buy european" they mean "buy french and I'm going to shit on the tablèaux"
Ftfy

>>63983933
>rather than buy Tempest off the shelf

The European Defence Fund excludes allied partners. No Refunds.

>>63983309
Based. Tell your mistress I said hi

>>63983228 (OP)
And they wonder why Australia dumped them. Nothing but lies.

>Joining Frogstink programs
when will they ever learn

>>63983403
>For a country that blusters so much about "european unity" they sure do a lot to impede it.
This. There is only two reason include French in defense procurement in European countries, either purchase is too small to be economically important or avoiding lawsuit for not including them in tenders.

>80% of fcas & 50% of mgcs
The fuck

>>63983721
Really it comes down to purchases in the end. France could end up with 80% of the aircraft, everything worked out right. Germs will be fine with their HGV and conventional IRBM buys, Spain will be fine with their naval pivot..

>>63983228 (OP)
France can develop a fighter jet on its own. Germany can't.

>>63985816
If they're facing such limited involvement in it's production then they'd be better off buying an off-the-shelf model from the US or GCAP.

>>63985816
but anon, rafale shat their bed all over punjab, so what's there to be proud of ? Making a failed indigenous 4G with a tiny radar and the worst turbofan out of all 4G jets ?

>>63986363
Even worse than the F-404?

>>63986529
You know what? Yes. Even worse than the F-104.

>>63984300
GCAP is too ahead in the program to accept new developer partners so Germany can either stay in FCAS or skip the 6th gen.
And France might destroy all joint projects, but Germany during the Tornado and Eurofighter development costed the 2 of them hundreds of sales with their stubborness about allowing sales and not wanting to move forward with the project.
We are just lucky that the 2 black sheeps are in a project together

>>63986529
Yes

>>63983721
That’s the lamest and gayest 6th gen I’ve ever seen, even for a preliminary mock-up

how does EU MIC even function if you don't make parts in every single polity and create an incomprehensible logistics chain?

>>63983228 (OP)
Just buy the F-47, it’s going to be better than the competition anyways.

>>63983228 (OP)
>Working with the French
Germany doesn't learn, does it?

>People actually thought that there was competition between FCAS and GCAP on which would be delivered first.

>>63985816
And why would germany want to spend money on learning how to develop 20% of a fighter jet? A jet that will be inferior to buyable GCAP too (for german needs)?

>>63989232
FCAS(or whatever named that it's going to be called) will be equipped with a variable cycle engine which both F-47 or GCAP are not going to have.

>>63990856
GCAP is going to have RR adaptive-cycle engines which are significantly better.

>>63990862
>GCAP is going to have RR adaptive-cycle engines which are significantly better
No, it isn't

>>63985816
Both countries have the ability. It's simply a matter of political will to supply the necessary funds. Which is why European countries are seeking such cooperation agreements in the first place. Because going it alone would require some serious reprioritization of budget items in any European country that it would be a really hard sell to the voter base.

Such backstabbing behaviour like from Dassault will just isolate France more and more from inter-European arms cooperation agreements. This doesn't necessarily mean a blow to France's security or arms procurement. But it will mean a blow to their goverment finances which are already pretty stressed. Someday something's gonna break.

>>63984300
Anon, Dassault is already working on its fifth iteration of the Rafale, with sneaky boi loyal wingmen and integrated AI stuff. I'm pretty sure they don't give a crap at this point, they have sold enough Rafales and support to say fuck off to even the french government. Work has already started on a more powerful engine for the bird, and strenghtened airframe. The stealth job will be ensured by their domestic UCAV and they will call it a day. More than enough to blow russian junk. And you can sell the upgrades to the existing customers.

>>63992062
Yet you lost against the pakis

>meanwhile GCAP

These multi-national programs are fake. They’re not there to actually produce a plane, they’re there to spend a little bit of money to fund MICs and allowing governments to pretend that they are spending on defense, that’s all. They’re not serious.

Airbus Defence&Space and Kratos will collaborate to integrate the XQ-58 Valkyrie for the German air force, the aim is to have it ready by 2029 alongside Eurofighter and F-35A

https://defence-industry.eu/airbus-and-kratos-partner-to-integrate-mission-system-into-xq-58a-valkyrie-for-german-air-force/

>>63994659
Shits get blown in a war, especially when you've been advertising your strike for a full week. Also, you're talking about a nation where two 787 pilots shut down both fuel switches right in the middle of a take off.

>>63995143
>what is tornado
>what is typhoon
>what is GCAP (demonstrator literally being built rn)

>>63995950
https://defence-industry.eu/general-atomics-launches-transatlantic-partnership-to-develop-european-collaborative-combat-aircraft/

https://defence-industry.eu/lockheed-martin-ramps-up-pac-3-missile-production-aims-to-reach-750-units-annually/

https://defence-industry.eu/stephanie-willmann-appointed-as-northrop-grummans-first-country-executive-for-germany/

Why is Germany going all in on American shit now? This was just from me browsing for 30 seconds

Also what does Northrop Grumman even make these days that Germany would be interested to buy?

>>63996760
You don't see the larger picture. We want these shit as soon as possible while building up autonomic capacities in the long term. Only USA is able to deliver the shit that's needed in time and number.

>>63996803
Germany is already working on drones and IRIS-T SLX and both of these are ready the same time those American ones are. Also as mentioned Northrop Grumman has nothing to offer to Germany unless they want the F-15 or F-18

>>63985080
Table is still table en francais though, mon anon. It's just pronounced differently.

>>63996136
>Also, you're talking about a nation where two 787 pilots shut down both fuel switches right in the middle of a take off.
Only the senior pilot. According to the WSJ the co-pilot was panicking asking why the PIC did that. Sounds to me like a murder-suicide on a grand scale like that German pilot that flew into a mountain.

>>63983228 (OP)
This really is going to be the Eurofighter all over again, isn't it?

>>63996960
tuh-blay

>>63997036
this will be dubbed the Euroinfighter

>>63996990
I remember that one, pic related.

Another possible example is China Eastern Flight 5735, which totally wasn't flown into the ground by a suicidal pilot what are you talking about comrade would you like an all-expenses-paid trip to Xinjiang Province?

>>63997036
no, the Eurofighter actually flew in the end

>>63996760
Germany is a US vassal state

>>63997905
if it wasn't for germany opposing all sales it would've sold 2x the amount it did.

>>63998462
sure. give a list of those blocked sales. KSA, Turkey? KSA got lifted, Turkey too before they jailed that opposition candidate. Both don't seem too keen on getting new EF airframes.

europe and uk can't even produce a 5th, let alone a 6th. russia barely gets their 5th (it should be like 4.9th). they're turning into india-tier.

it's a shamfru display.

>>63983228 (OP)
daily reminder that Airbus success was a frog / anglo succes, NOT a german one

The germans havn't built a good airplane since the fucking BF 109 in the 30's, almost 100 years ago

>>63983228 (OP)
>euros set out to make a new plane
>realize that making planes is expensive and decide to pool together
>invite france
>france wants all the money for itself and also complete creative control and also fuck you
>france gets booted
>euros make plane without france, france makes own plane
why does this keep happening? why do they still invite France to these?

>>63998504
The FW-190 was a good plane. Less of a dogfighter than the 109 but a very practical and capable multi-role combat platform that put in an absolute fuckload of work during the war.

>>63998517
Dunno. Maybe because France is the most experienced and competent nation in the aeronautical industry in Europe?
The last warplanes produced 100% nationally by most European nations date back to the First or Second World Wars.
They don't have the industry or the skills to do it today. If you want to build a warplane in Europe, you need France or the UK.

>>63998517
and what plane is better ? The Rafale or the euroinfighter ?

>>63998517
>why do they still invite France to these?
We do it exactly for that reason: to kick them out once the project inevitably goes south. This has the side-effect of creating a common enemy and thus intensifying the cooperation between the remaining project members. France does it for the exact same reason: to get to feel aggrieved when they get kicked out so they intensify their efforts to "I'll show 'm, I'll show all of 'm!"

In absence of an external enemy, we need an internal one.

>>63998487
>lifted
>after they didn't want them anymore

>>63998577
>France is the most experienced and competent nation in the aeronautical industry in Europe?
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

>>63998666
>Emotional overreaction, no argument
Are you a woman? Tits or gtfo.

>>63998646
the eurofighter hasn't been poo'd in the loo so I'd say it wins by default

>>63998666
unfortunately, what he says is true. not because france is so great but because no one else in europe can build a plane.

>>63998666
who else, the english? What kind of fucking cope is this

>>63998666
I mean it is basically them or Sweden i'm pretty sure. It's a low bar

>>63998776
Sweden puts ITAR shit in their planes

>>63998737
yes, UK. RR>Safran and BAE>Dassault.

>>63998797
Anon, when was the last jet fighter 100% designed and built by BAE?

>>63998807
We're talking about quality, otherwise your claim needs to be "France is the only country making stuff fully ITAR free".
And let's face it. We have evidence supporting that the Rafale is just a bunch of hot air that lost to a jf-17.

>>63983228 (OP)
>80%
Pretty fucking bold after that Rafale was put down by some chinksect plane on it's first combat deployment.

>>63998807
not an argument, the EJ200 is superior to the Snecma M88 and the EF is superior to the Rafale. Just because French are autistic about doing everything themselves (ideally paid for by others) doesn't mean it's a value by itself.

>>63998924
>Just because French are autistic about doing everything themselves (ideally paid for by others) doesn't mean it's a value by itself.
This, technically being ITAR free is a bonus, but it doesn't make your jet better by default. The better argument would be "the rafale is less capable than other jets, but at least it has no meme killswitches"

>>63998857
>We're talking about quality
No we don't. My claim was
>France is the most experienced and competent nation in the aeronautical industry in Europe
Because "quality" alone is not enough. There is no doubt some European companies can produce quality jet fighter parts. However if you are not able to produt every part, you just have a shelf full of quality part. Not a jet fighter.

>We have evidence supporting that the Rafale is just a bunch of hot air that lost to a jf-17.
Please share it then. Because the only fact we currently know for sure is one Rafale was down. But the reason remains unknown.
It could have been a JF-17 with a PL-15, but it could also have been Paki SAM, or a friendly fire or a mechanical failure. We don't know.
In general, stop believing the propaganda from the 75 IQ Pakistanis and use OSINT.

>>63998945
show me a single compontent that france makes that has literal zero european alternatives

>>63998807
Fr*nch are truly cretins, all of them down to each effeminate cuckold man. Dassault makes dogshit jets that are failing to find customer support while BAE inserted itself into the most successful 5th Gen program in history. Instead of trying to compete with burgers they joined the club and now have great experience and are applying it to their own project with the Japs while France and Germany once again spiral out and fuck up any semblance of Euro unity kek.

>>63998929
the Eurofighter is ITAR free too, it's just made by 4 euro nations instead of 1.

>another thread full of seething NAFO troons crying about us
feels good to live in your head free of charge

>>63998961
Your low IQ is showing.
Who is the true cuckold here? Is it the one who can build its own jet fighter independently or the one that needs parts and licenses from other nations?
What do you think will happen if (when?) Daddy USA enters a war with China? Do you really think they'll still provide spare parts and maintenance for your F-35? No, they won't. All their production will be for the U.S. only. You'll have very expensive anvils at your airport.

Independence is the key. But it is an alien concept for a cuckold mind like you.

>>63999003
>feels good to live in your head free of charge
>he says posting about nafo in year of our lord 2025

>>63996943
>Germany is already working on drones and IRIS-T SLX and both of these are ready the same time those American ones are
Nope. Certainly not in numbers krauts need 'em right now in case of any variant of IRIS-T SLS.
> Also as mentioned Northrop Grumman has nothing to offer to Germany unless they want the F-15 or F-18
Both of those are Boeing products, originally McDonnell-Douglas.

>>63999006
>one that needs parts and licenses from other nations?
>needs
nope. Feel free to respond to >>63998949

>>63998963
Target pod is locked, inertial and satellite navigation systems are Northrop Grumman, LAD is from Collins aerospace and that's on top of my head

>>63999118
Lockheed* not locked

>>63999080
Hey dum-dum, for example, what is your alternative to the F135 Pratt & Whitney engine (manufactured at the company's main production facility in Middletown, Connecticut) that you don't need for your F-35?

>Feel free to respond to >>63998949 #
>>63998945
>There is no doubt some European companies can produce quality jet fighter parts. However if you are not able to produt every part, you just have a shelf full of quality part. Not a jet fighter.

You're not the sharpest tool in the shed.

>>63999130
>Hey dum-dum, for example, what is your alternative to the F135 Pratt & Whitney engine (manufactured at the company's main production facility in Middletown, Connecticut) that you don't need for your F-35?
>moves the goalpost
lol
>However if you are not able to produt every part, you just have a shelf full of quality part. Not a jet fighter.
Who says we can't? again, show me a single jet component that we can't manufacture here in europe. Or is it that France can produce the F135 engine?

>>63998654
Y'know, it makes a certain kind of sense when you put it like that.

>>63984043
GCAP is probably leaning towards assembly and maintenance facilities for the Saudis as workshare/tech-sharing is pretty much locked in now (UK/JP leading manufacturing and ITA leading integration/training) and and the Saudis have no significant aero industry to speak of.
The Germans/Airbus would have to put up a lot either in cash or CCA tech as well as cede veto rights to GIGO/Edgewing JV for them to be considered as a tier 1 member, IMO the Australians and Canadians are probably in a better spot considering their geopolitical situations, strategic reality as well as having advances in CCA (MQ-28 Ghost Bat) and Satellite/Comms (MDA Space) as well as not having a history of delaying joint projects. Remember it's the Japanese that are pushing hard on the 2035 IOC deadline to counter the PLAN and they wouldn't tolerate delays to that date.
>>63990941
Given that GCAP is planned to be able to cross the Atlantic on internal tanks without refuelling as well as having double the F-35 internal payload with RR being a leader in AC engines, it's a pretty safe bet anon

>>63998504
The Bf109 was dogshit. It was good against LaGGs but once the Russians got the Yak and La out they pushed the 109s shit in.

>>64001311
We'll see I guess but end of the day I think Germany is good because of Americans. Germany's also got projects with Japan and the UK going which might brighten the mood if you know what I’m sayin.

>>64001939
The Bf-109 was good against fighter hunter.
>inb4 its landing gear, the spitfire had the same issue

>>63983252
>the aircraft company who actually makes fighter jets know what they’re doing
>reee they’re mean

>>63986363
>lose 1 jet
>THEY FAILED ITS A FAILURE
I swear everyone on this gets more retarded by the day

>>64002088
Fine but it's the only loss you can take

>>64002051
Learn English. The 109 wasn’t good at anything and a dead end hence why the Fw 190 flew until 1945, was actually liked by its crew and feared by its enemies. Since you mentioned the Spitfire, once the Brits figured out a good engine they also took away the only advantage the 109 had, and don’t get me started on the 110 which did cost Germany the Battle of Britain.

>>64002088
then anon, maybe its about time trappier shut his mouth insteading of bragging about muh french "ingenuity", "superiority" ?
Because there was one thing, their much vaunted SPECTRA got exposed by chinks, contrary to bs that Dassault PR team has been sprouting for years, so claiming what Airbus DEU can or cant do is not something french is currently in a position to do so.
maybe airbus wasn't bs-ing when they were saying that Dassault are only aiming for a silent Rafale, and that doesn't exactly inspire any confidence in french MIC as a whole

>>64002210
Seriously you are retarded. You’re claiming all of the French mic is a failure based on 1 fucking jet going down in which it’s unclear what brought it down. You’ve got to be the most blantant chink I’ve seen touring superiority after no proof has been provided for the cause of the rafale going down

>>64002123
French jets were great against Soviet shitboxes so I don’t why you think I’m even arguing for the Soviets

>>64002195
>dead end
For the anti-bomber role after 1943? sure. All the sub-4-tons fighters had the same problem. But pre-1943 those heavier fighters couldn't compete against the smaller and shorter range fighters without an initial altitude advantage. They became relevant when allies needed good escort fighters, otherwise they're a waste of fuel.

>. Since you mentioned the Spitfire, once the Brits figured out a good engine they also took away the only advantage the 109 had,
Importing and producing 115/145 avgas isn't figuring out the engine, their only improvement was adding the second SC with liquid intercooler. And the Griffon Spitfire wasn't comparable.

> 110 which did cost Germany the Battle of Britain.
Only Japan could have been more successful (if they improve the high altitude perf of the Sakae) in that Battle, the US, England wouldn't have fared better than Germany in 1940.

>>64002241
oh it's that simple
either
> Rafale gone down on its own
> SPECTRA EW failed to jam whatever chinkshits hurled at them
So pick one ?
> t. muh chink
French being arrogant for year and started recoiling the moment someone called out their bs, lmfao

>>64002241
>chink
I doubt that's what it is, under the circumstances. My money's on a Brit or an African, with a remote possibility of German. Those three are my top picks for seething about France.

>>64002369
>oh it’s that simple
>yet I won’t stop crying about French arrogance over nothing and continue to make retarded calculations off of the lack of data available
Did some French man fuck your mother because you’re arguments still have nothing to prove anything about the French MIC other than you’re pathetic seething

>>64002369
So which is it? Since you seem so confident the chink shit did it have you the combat logs or videos of which absolutely no one has seen?

>>64002534
> French man
pic related :^)
>>64002547
> which is it ?
Rafale shat the bed, Dassaultfags coped endlessly for weeks with no end in sight, what more do you need ?

>>64002336
The sad thing is the 109 was only good at its anti bomber roll due to its climb rate until the 152 rolled out. Due to the airframe just being outdated and cramped they couldn’t upgrade it to anything else without it becoming a deathtrap eg the gunpods.

>le high octane fuel and supercharger
Germany has the same high octane fuel and I recon a comparable supercharger since mentioned 152 did later on but I guess the 109 couldn’t like it due to also mentioned dogshit airframe. I'm also talking about the Merlin and how is the Griffin Spit not comparable, it uses just like the 109 the same airframe from the 30s.

I don’t care how Japan or the US would’ve faired, we’re talking about Germany. Look up the FW187, a plane that wasn’t chosen because Kurt Tank wasn’t Bavarian despite being superior to the 110 in every way.

>>64002597
Ah so you have nothing. IAYC

>>64002597
>/pol/ tier responses
Oh I’m dealing with a fucking Paki. Makes sense now since you can’t do anything to prove your claim so you resort to rage bait

>>64002626
> more seething and projecting
first i'm supposed to be chang, then bong/germs, now onto inbred jeets
who'll i be next ? vatnigger ? \
Not everyone who's tired of french BS always has to be bong or germs
But keep seething :^)

>>64002666
Sure pal. Keep seething over you literal no proof or coherent argument chink paki mutant

>>64002666
I only you seething over the French anon.

>>64002599
>e to its climb rate until the 152 rolled out. D
The 152 had worse climb rate than the normal 190D, climb rate isn't the only useful metric. The main problem of the 190-A was the single stage with low critical altitude and the bad range becase Germans didn't develop a long range single engine fighter.

>. I'm also talking about the Merlin and how is the Griffin Spit not comparable
Obviously they weren't comparable, what's why I said "And the Griffon Spitfire wasn't comparable."

> has the same high octane fuel
German kinda could make HO avgas at the cost of an absurd amount of steel. Their main problem wasn't the fuel pre collapse of their industry but the nearly absolute lack and rationing of strategic metals to make things like exhaust valves, even if they could improve the octane of the C3 it would take months for designers to improve the engine to withstand the thermal stress of a higher boost. After 1942 most engineering efforts of Germany were related to ersatz models regardless their reserves of metals, that delayed their industry.

> dogshit airframe.
Unrelated. ASAT

>wasn’t Bavarian despite being superior to the 110 in every way.
I know the German goverment had an absurd favoritism and stupid mistakes, far worse was their lack of real aircraft for anti naval warfare and escorts, less stupid bombers and longer range fighters for their offensive forces. That was unrelated to Messerschmitt. Neither was he related to never adopting a high altitude variant of the BMW 801 or taking advantage of the better FW cowling to adapt larger radials like Japan began to do during the end of the war.

England wasted a lot of time with bad engine designs and the US had their marvelous compartmentalization that gimped the Allison V12, role segmentation is hell.

>>64002599
>e to its climb rate until the 152 rolled out. D
The 152 had worse climb rate than the normal 190D, climb rate isn't the only useful metric. The main problem of the 190-A was the single stage with low critical altitude and the bad range becase Germans didn't develop a long range single engine fighter.

>. I'm also talking about the Merlin and how is the Griffin Spit not comparable
Obviously they weren't comparable, that's why I said "And the Griffon Spitfire wasn't comparable."

> has the same high octane fuel
German kinda could make HO avgas at the cost of an absurd amount of steel. Their main problem wasn't the fuel pre collapse of their industry but the nearly absolute lack and rationing of strategic metals to make things like exhaust valves, even if they could improve the octane of the C3 it would take months for designers to improve the engine to withstand the thermal stress of a higher boost. After 1942 most engineering efforts of Germany were related to ersatz models regardless their reserves of metals, that delayed their industry.

> dogshit airframe.
Unrelated. ASAT

>wasn’t Bavarian despite being superior to the 110 in every way.
I know the German goverment had an absurd favoritism and stupid mistakes, far worse was their lack of real aircraft for anti naval warfare and escorts, less stupid bombers and longer range fighters for their offensive forces. That was unrelated to Messerschmitt. Neither was he related to never adopting a high altitude variant of the BMW 801 or taking advantage of the better FW cowling to adapt larger radials like Japan began to do during the end of the war.

England wasted a lot of time with bad engine designs and the US had their marvelous compartmentalization that gimped the Allison V12, role segmentation is hell.

>>63984220
Pretty sure the Frongs would also claim that they are the only ones in Europe who knows anything about space.

It's funny that the French side didn't say a single word about French also paying 80% of the development.

The way i understand it, if the germans had more than 20% share they would have the ability to block exports, which is why dassult wants 80%. What I don't figure out is why they took so many years to figure this out when that rule was in place before the whole project even started? Wasn't even brought up when the original development percentage was changed to accomodate spain.

>>64004002
Dassault doesn't care where the money comes from, but i'm not sure macron is willing to pay up.

>>64004115
The argumentation is that Germany only has a guaranteed share of 10% but Dassault can decide what the 10% are and they can decide which subsystems are developed by whom so Germany may or may not get more than 10%.

>>63983839
>endless money pit
They draw the projects out and you keep getting paid

>>63992062
At some point they have to realize that France can't subsidize Dassault longer with cheap credits to poor countries so they can order Rafale.

Which also includes somewhere paying 90 billions just for fcas

>>64004115
I think the less share Germany got the more likely they’re vetoing simply out of spite but more importantly because nothing is on the line. Meanwhile Germany went out of their way to drop their veto against Turkey and SA because they’ve got 33% workshare which supports close to 10K jobs and knowledge.

>>63999118
> Example US contractors for the Dassault Rafale:
> HiRel Connectors, Inc.: Electrical & Electronic Connectors
> Collins Aerospace: Pitot probe; ice detectors; air data total air temperature sensors
> The Lee Company: Hydraulic Systems, Restrictors
> Lockheed Martin: Sniper Advanced Targeting Pod
> Aerotech Herman Nelson, Inc.: Portable heaters (Canadian contractor)
b..b..b..but muh ITAR free

>>63983228 (OP)

>Company founded by (((Marcel Dassault)))
>Does Jewish business practices

Color me suprised.

Anyways, it's understandable that they got so cocky. Because the US has become so unreliable and the Russia cannot build jets anymore, the french are the only ones left who'll sell to anyone. The books are now full and (((Dassault))) can probably survive for a bit without la grande nation bailing them out with government contracts.

It's true: aside from the UK France is likely the only one in Europe who can almost entirely build a jet. That might also be true for satellite and rocketry as well. But look at Ariane Aerospace and Eutelsat. Instead of providing value they are basically just fronts to funnel EU subsidies into the failing french nation. Selling the french public the dream that they still matter as a nation and selling german public that they are not just throwing money after another greece.

In typical fashion a project with very unclear definitions was created. Down the line you want goals to be rediscussed an agreements rearranged. Hoping that the financial salami tactics work and Germany gets a case of the sunken cost fallacy.

The project was doomed from the start: frenchies want a carrier fighter and germans want a long range interceptor. They should have talked about communalities and then each contracted whoever wants to built the plane for them.

>>64002088
They actually lost 3 rafales and 1 mirage 2000

>>63999118
>what is rafael
>what are Galileo INAs
>what are Brazilian/Swedish LADs for the MLU

>>64009403
but it was pajeets

>>64010092
It's the same