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Thread 63983286

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Anonymous No.63983286 >>63983330 >>63984344 >>63984394 >>63984756 >>63985881 >>63986373 >>63986659 >>63987315 >>63990439 >>63994227
Magnum-ifying old cartridges
Which centerfire cartridge from 1870s-1910s would you like to see get a high pressure, smokeless variant?
Personally I'd like to see 38-40 and 32-20 get the magnum treatment.
Anonymous No.63983292 >>63986597
those just look like meme large-caliber AR rounds like 458 socom
Anonymous No.63983305 >>63983318
Got you covered.
Anonymous No.63983318 >>63983324
There's the .41 gnr series of wildcat cartridges. There's even .401 gnr if ur a furty purist.
>>63983305
>357-44 B&D
Don't those have setback issues?
Anonymous No.63983324 >>63983342
>>63983318
So will most bottlenecks at high pressure in revolvers.
Not an issue in a levergun though.
Anonymous No.63983330
>>63983286 (OP)
There isnt one. I hate lever actions and .357 mag is perfect for my revolver needs. I would like to see a .30 carbine resurgence
Anonymous No.63983342
>>63983324
Its rare for bottlenecks that aren't steep enough like 38-40 or .41 gnr. Though the former is likely due to the low max pressure.
Anonymous No.63983446
Iโ€™ve played around a little with higher pressure 32-20 loads but I tend to use my higher pressure .45 Colt loads more than any other. My .44 Magnums now tend to take second chair behind my .45 Colts when taken afield. My pipe dream is a modern smokeless .476 Enfield, but something a touch more moderate than a fully loaded .475 Linebaugh.
Anonymous No.63984344
>>63983286 (OP)
.300 Sherwood. And tweak the bullet diameter to .308 while we're modernizing it.

Also, .500/.450 3-1/2"
That had a factory load of 145 grains of black powder, I want to see what kind of velocity a modern take would get.
Anonymous No.63984394 >>63984435 >>63985896
>>63983286 (OP)
25acp
Anonymous No.63984435
>>63984394
No we can't let Jetfire Jim have that kind of power! Who knows what gats he'll drop at the range?
Anonymous No.63984756 >>63984979
>>63983286 (OP)
.405 Winchesterโ€ฆ. We have 444 marlin.. 45-70, and 500 bushwackerโ€ฆ. A long straight wall 40 caliber round with modern high strength action and matching high pressure loads would be fun as hell.
Anonymous No.63984883
Rocket Balls & Volcanics.
One of the original loads was 6 grains of black powder. While that was weak as hell, 6 grains of smokeless is typical for a 9mm, so it ought to be practical to make them at least that powerful.
Anonymous No.63984979 >>63985007
>>63984756
30-30 should be suitable as a parent case. the tc encore would be a good test mule. the bfr could be a good build as well
Anonymous No.63985007 >>63994383
>>63984979
I think Herter's 401 powermag used 30-30 as a parent case
Anonymous No.63985226
8mm Mauser at 80kpsi sounds neat. Kinda like a 338 RCM but longer and with a smaller case head - fits the envelope of a 30-06.
Anonymous No.63985881 >>63985962 >>63986389
>>63983286 (OP)
.30 Luger +P+, please
Imagine being a barrel swap away from being able to defeat 3A/HG2 armor with your Glock 19, shit
Anonymous No.63985896 >>63985938 >>63985950
>>63984394
>25acp
.17-25ACP MAGNUM.
Anonymous No.63985938
>>63985896
I think that's an actual round.
Anonymous No.63985950 >>63986417
>>63985896
How about a .25APC necked down to .10?

https://firearmwiki.com/wiki/Bill_Eichelberger#.25_ACP
Anonymous No.63985962 >>63986105
>>63985881
Uhhhh. This is already a thing
Anonymous No.63986004 >>63986619
32 acp. I love the idea of a 32 carry piece with more horsepower
Anonymous No.63986105 >>63986347
>>63985962
Can you elaborate on that?
Anonymous No.63986347 >>63986389
>>63986105
7.62x25
Anonymous No.63986373 >>63986454 >>63994074 >>63994459
>>63983286 (OP)
.577/450 Martini-Henry.
Anonymous No.63986389
>>63986347
7.62 Tok requires a .45 ACPโ€“size gun; .30 Luger is 9mm Parabellum's parent cartridge, and (as spelled out in >>63985881) would fit in most existing 9mm guns with a simple barrel swap.
Anonymous No.63986417 >>63987293
>>63985950
>.10 Eich[...] Long Rifle
What the hell is this shit? Why?
Where do you even get .103 caliber bullets? How do you safely manhandle a primed rimfire case to neck it down like that?
Anonymous No.63986454
>>63986373
God i wish
Anonymous No.63986597
>>63983292
Yeah, but think of how great it would be to have performance that already exists, but in a harder to get new proprietary cartridge, with big rims that make magazines not work as smoothly!
Anonymous No.63986619
>>63986004
You want 0.312" bullets like those from 32acp, going a bit faster, from a case a bit longer than 0.68".
How do you feel about 0.827" long cases? How about rimless instead of semi rimless?
Anonymous No.63986659 >>63986666
>>63983286 (OP)
38-40 is literally .40 S&W. Both use a .400 bullet, and are nearly ballistically identical.
The "magnum version" would therefore be 10mm.
Anonymous No.63986666 >>63986983
>>63986659
And before some retard says that the 38-40 uses a .38 cal bullet, go look it up. Look it the fuck up before you make yourself look stupid.
Anonymous No.63986983
>>63986666
38-40 has a 33mm long case, and is moderately bottlenecked, with a full rim.
To magnum-ify 38-40 would be to make a case with those same features, but slightly longer at the neck, and loaded for more pressure. A lot more pressure, since there would be so much case capacity to utilize with modern propellant. The projectile would be the only similarity to the 10mm Auto cartridge, while the 38-40 magnum would shoot at a much higher velocity, and be far worse for feeding through double stack box magazines due to the rim. But also it would be bad for revolvers due to the combination of high pressure and bottleneck. So the 38-40 magnum would be a rather powerful round that isn't particularly well suited for any feed system or long range, but it would work alright in a tube mag or small box mag, and be backwards compatible with 38-40 ammo you have on hand, so there would probably be three, four, or hell, maybe even eight fudds in the world who would like it.
Anonymous No.63987288 >>63987331
17.5mm Dutch Snider.
Anonymous No.63987293 >>63987309
>>63986417
> .22 long rifle case

A simple barrel swap and you could shoot that out of a Calico making you the proud owner of the world's greatest douchbag home defense gun.

>Home invader lying on the floor, needle holes in every part of his body, a half dozen non fatal brain penetrations
>He looks on in drooling horror as you load another 100 hard cast brass rounds
>He points at his dropped Hi Point, begs you to just kill him
>'No'
>You resume firing
Anonymous No.63987309 >>63987356
>>63987293
>A simple barrel swap
There's nothing simple about finding barrel blanks smaller than .17 cal. Unfortunately.

My favorite of the Eichelberger cartridges is the .14 Flea. It is based on .32 ACP and will do well over 3000 fps with those little copper solids.
Anonymous No.63987315 >>63987355 >>63989924
>>63983286 (OP)
I have some ideas
.22 lr magnum
.38 special magnum
.44 special magnum
.380 magnum
.40 s&w magnum
Anonymous No.63987331 >>63987349
>>63987288
Ideal revolver cartridge. Unironically.
Anonymous No.63987349 >>63990428 >>63994409 >>63995277
>>63987331
Ooh, that reminds me. .577 Boxer would be another great one to Magnum-ify.
Anonymous No.63987355 >>63987406
>>63987315
>.38 special magnum
>.44 special magnum
sounds boring. we should double-magnum those.
Anonymous No.63987356
>>63987309
That out of a decent target rifle would be a fantastic gun, you could invent entirely new types of hunting like 500 foot grouse shooting.
Anonymous No.63987406 >>63987422 >>63990388
>>63987355
So we've got Magnum cartridges that are upgraded earlier cartridges. And there are even a handful of "super-magnums" that are upgraded twice, like .357 Maximum, .445 SuperMag and .460 S&W. Are there any that have been upgraded three times?
Anonymous No.63987422 >>63987427 >>63990448 >>63994414
>>63987406

.38 S&W > .38SPC > .357Magnum > .357Maximum

.45Colt > .454 Casull > .460 S&W

.44 Russian > .44Special > .44Magnum > .445SuperMag
Anonymous No.63987425
Zero
Already have enough wildcats to forget
Anonymous No.63987427 >>63987432 >>63994426
>>63987422
>.38 S&W > .38SPC
No, .38 spc came from .38 Colt. But good point, that was upgraded 3 times. And somehow I had forgotten about .44 Russian.
Anonymous No.63987432 >>63994426
>>63987427
Right. So then the correct progression would be:
.38ShortColt > .38LongColt > .38SPC > .357Magnum > .357Maximum
Anonymous No.63989924 >>63990329
>>63987315
Isn't one of these already like a thing?
Anonymous No.63990329
>>63989924
That's the joke; only one of them *isn't* already a thingโ€”.22 WMR doesn't use a heeled bullet so it's not technically a "magnum" .22 LRโ€”the rest are .357 Mag, .44 Mag, 9mm, and 10mm.
Anonymous No.63990388 >>63994431
>>63987406
>Are there any that have been upgraded three times?

.40 S&W, 10mm Auto, 10mm AutoMag.
Anonymous No.63990428
>>63987349
looks like those bullets form roger rabbit.
Anonymous No.63990439 >>63991584 >>63996467
>>63983286 (OP)
None, because black powder cartridges are ill-suited shapes for smokeless powder, and they're bad for reloading. They were made when we knew less, and now we know better, and we don't need to pretend as if we still know less.
>38-40
Get a 405Win.
>32-20
Get a 35Rem or a 348Win.

If you're thinking "all those cartridges are dead", yeah, that's what happens when you try to make a turbo-cowboy cartridge, it fucking flops.
Anonymous No.63990448
>>63987422
.32 S&W > .32 S&W Long > 32H&R Mag. >327Fed Mag
Anonymous No.63991584 >>63993691
>>63990439
>They were made when we knew less, and now we know better,
Interesting, how do you rate the 25-35?
Anonymous No.63993691 >>63993731
>>63991584
Back then? Fine. People needed all the range and trajectory advantage they could get.

Today? Not optimal. Lever actions are now pretty much relegated to being sub-150yd blasters and the tube magazines and action mechanisms favor straight-walled short cartridges. If the legal appeals regarding the now $0 NFA tax for SBRs succeeds and has them removed entirely, I anticipate a shift to ~12" carbines, and a shift away from 30-30 and .357 to .44 and .454. Even with the fingerprinting etc. I think that may still happen to a smaller degree.
Anonymous No.63993731 >>63993929
>>63993691
12" .44 Mag lever gun feels like the optimal durr gun for most people east of the Mississippi
Anonymous No.63993929 >>63994036
>>63993731
Here's a leaf killing a bear with one (after ballistic tests).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PScd4ZI7Gvw
Anonymous No.63994036 >>63994060
>>63993929
It's conclusive, 20" is best performance.
>inb4 but bu but...
20" is best,.SBR a waste of potential.
Anonymous No.63994060 >>63995105
>>63994036
>an extra 8" of barrel for an extra 100 fps of muzzle velocity
show us your 26" 5.56 AR
Anonymous No.63994074
>>63986373
Holy fuck. Iโ€™d rather take an Assegai to the stomach
Anonymous No.63994227
>>63983286 (OP)
.50-140 Sharps
Make it smokeless, build an 8 shot revolver for it.
Anonymous No.63994383
>>63985007
Sounds reasonable. I've heard of reloaders using cut down 30-30 to reload .41 Magnum when brass was scare for it.
Anonymous No.63994409
>>63987349
If .577 Boxer is coming back, I want a new manufacture Bland-Pryse revolver.
Anonymous No.63994414 >>63994430
>>63987422
Magnum Research made a necked down .50AE case to make .429DE.
Anonymous No.63994426
>>63987427
>>63987432
There was also a .44 American that became .44 Russian.
Anonymous No.63994430 >>63994457
>>63994414
I want .224DE
Anonymous No.63994431
>>63990388
I wish they'd make an 10mm Mag Desert Eagle. I think it was briefly chambered in the LAR Grizzly and Automag IV.
Anonymous No.63994457
>>63994430
That would be hilarious.
Anonymous No.63994459 >>63994732 >>63994735
>>63986373
.577 Snider on left, two Martinis in middle, .303 Brit for scale on right.
We will need this with a depleted uranium supercavitating load for the Europan Sepratist Rebellion. Might see service on Titan as well, but too late for Mars I reckon.
Anonymous No.63994732 >>63994735 >>63994767
>>63994459
Would you consider .458 Winchester Short Magnum as an alternative to .577/450?
>.577/400 case length 2.34"
> 480 grains, 1350 fps, 1940 ftlbs
>.458 WSM case length 2.375"
> 480 grains, 2170 fps, 5000 ftlbs (these are at 150 yards, not at the muzzle)
Note that .458WSM can be chambered in AR10 pattern rifles. it can also chamber and fire from any rifle chambered in .458 WinMag.
Anonymous No.63994735 >>63994736
>>63994459
>>63994732
Note also that I want a Howda in .577 Snider some day.
Anonymous No.63994736
>>63994735
forgot pic
Anonymous No.63994767 >>63994833
>>63994732
No, because this thread is about cartridges from the 1870s-1910s, which .458 WSM ain't.
It is pretty cool though. But if I could get an AR-10 in any caliber I'd rather ol' reliable .45-70.
>But the rim
James Paris Lee figured out how to make it work in 1879, why the fuck can't we do the same now?
Anonymous No.63994833 >>63994868
>>63994767
Hell, the reason the Desert Eagle didn't go the way of every other automagnum pistol is because the first three chamberings were for rimmed revolver cartridges. That, and .22lr have taught me rimmed cartridges can feed fine from a detachable box mag if the design is right. Incedentaly, launching .38 Short Colt out of .357 Desert Eagle is one of the silliest things you can do with one. *plap* Anyway, I went looking and there's apparently a rimless .45-70 specifically made for the AR-10. Couldn't find any other examples of semiauto .45-70, but i did discover that a number of Siamese Mausers built by Japan for Siam were chambered for a specific military rimmed cartridge and quite a few were imported to the US and converted to .45-70. Apparently the action can support a 400 grain bullet at 2200 fps. The limit is not the action, but case capacity.
Anonymous No.63994868 >>63995434 >>63996400
>>63994833
>I went looking and there's apparently a rimless .45-70 specifically made for the AR-10.
Yeah, but if you want it, you have to buy a proprietary gun from Phoenix Arms that costs almost 5 grand (without sights) and has no customization options. And good luck getting ammo for it, I'm pretty sure the only one that sells it IS Phoenix Arms, at one hundred fucking dollars per box of 20.
If someone would just make a .45-70 AR-10 bolt + barrel and sell $50 mags for it I could finally stop grumbling about the best big-game cartridge being bottlenecked by literal 1860s technology.
Anonymous No.63995105
>>63994060
>26" 5.56 AR
I wish! Even my .22CM AR10 is only 24".
Anonymous No.63995277
>>63987349
There is historical precedent for that. Charles Lancaster made 2- and 4-barrel break-action pistols back in the day. 88 of those were in .577 Revolver but there was exactly one, serial no. 8047) that was special ordered with a 1 5/8" long case.

And of course you could consider the .577 Nitro Express to be the ultimate super-magnum version of that cartridge since the .577 Revolver was basically just a shortened .577 Express (black powder)
Anonymous No.63995434
>>63994868
Thatโ€™s cheaper than 500 bushwacker.. I think if I remember correctly pheonix arms sells a trimming tool that lets you convert 45-70 brass to the auto 45 rimless. But honestly pretty much any of these rounds mentioned come with the expectation that your gonna reload for themโ€ฆ
Anonymous No.63996400
>>63994868
>If someone would just make a .45-70 AR-10 bolt + barrel
That's not going to fly. The diameter of the AR 10 bolt head is about the same as the rim diameter of the .45-70. Rim is much too big, there's not enough room for the extractor.
Anonymous No.63996467
>>63990439
Thoughts on .401 gnr and 41gnr? They're both necked down from 44mag and possibly shorter from it.