Thread 63986086

>be Hornady
>destroy PCC larpers with 338 ARC
>just a few more steps in manufacturer adoption...
>PSA comes out with Mixtape
>proprietary upper and lower
>bruh
when will this clown world deliver us from evil and forgive us our trespasses

>>63986086 (OP)
338 ARC is shit

>>63986086 (OP)
338 ARC is shit

What does this do that 300 BLK doesn't?

>>63986227
it's 38 bigger

>>63986227
You’re gonna laugh. It’s not advertised as a competitor to 300 blackout - it’s being touted as a competitor to 8.6 blackout.

I can see value in it if you think of it as the 300 blackout version of 6arc or 6.5 grendel. LWRC makes nonstandard receivers and Magpul now makes pmags for that case head, that fit LWRC’s lowers. If that’s the kind of receiver you’re using, maybe it makes sense to have a 338ARC upper, instead of needing a whole new upper and lower to shoot 300 blackout. And as a bonus, 338ARC is a bit more energetic than 300 blackout.

The mixtape looks sick. Say what you want about Q, but their countershaded coloring scheme of the Honey Badger and boombox is sooooo kino.

>>63986086 (OP)
> proprietary upper and lower

If I’m not mistaken. It’s not *really* proprietary. Some years ago, LWRC, in conjunction with Magpul, came out with a non-standard lower receiver and accompanying pmags for the 6.8SPC (picrel). Now Magpul is making pmags for the slightly wider case head of 6mm arc for use in those same receivers. I say it’s not really proprietary because the receiver spec is open source.

>>63986227
getting rid of all that piled up money you have lying around, really fast

>>63986246
Someone please explain to me what all of these calibers even are; I'm too poor to afford any

>>63986303
>1.75 per round
not a problem since people dont shoot their guns around here.

its fun to theorycraft when you dont actually have to go through the pain of buying and shooting that shit, kind of like.... *rubs chin* kind of like what people do with the internet, you know... living their lives on it and all. you know? *stops rubbing chin*

>>63986420
What if instead of rubbing your chin you were rubbing me and instead of this board being /k/ it was frea/k/

>>63986387
Alright, here we go.

6.5 grendel
>7.62x39 (ak47 cartridge) necked down to 6.5mm (.264). A marvelously efficient cartridge - this is what proper cartridge design looks like
6mm arc
>6.5 grendel necked down to 6mm (.243). A pretty popular long-ish range cartridge for the ar15
338ARC
>same case as the above 2 cartridges, necked up to 8.6mm (.338). Its large bore and relatively small powder charge makes it a good SBR cartridge
300 blackout
>5.56 necked up to 7.62mm, and with a shorter case. Again, good SBR cartridge.

So the first 3 have a larger case diameter than 300 blackout. This means they can’t double stack in a polymer magazine and still fit in the ar15’s magwell, hence the need to make a non-standard lower receiver with a wider magwell to accommodate wider polymer magazines (though metal mags with thinner walls will still work in a normal AR)

Picrel. 6mm ARC is the parent case of 338ARC and so you can see why one needs new mags and a new receiver. It’s just too much bigger than 300 blackout (300 AAC).

Did they ever figure out how to make mags that dont fucking suck with those necked down cartridges? They literally all suck dick and dont work

>>63986086 (OP)
>Hey guys you know what the market really needs?
HOW ABOUT THIS GREAT NEW CARTRIDGE THAT COSTS 4X AS MUCH AS THE OLD CARTRIDGE BUT STILL ITS NEW AND RADICAL AND TUBULAR AND AWESOME!?
>Kids: Yeah! Yeah!
TELL YOUR PARENTS TO GO ON THIS WEBSITE AND BUY THIS NEW PROPRIETARY DOG SHIT CARTRIDGE SO THAT I CAN MAKE SOME MONEY

>>63986557
I love spending $50 per magazine, so fvcking bvsed

>>63986086 (OP)
>destroy PCC larpers
>while being 7 times more expensive than 9mm
The only thing they're destroying is their shareholder value when this shit inevitably tanks

>>63986086 (OP)
I think you misunderstand the point of PCCs

>>63987118
the modern meta is to misunderstand everything and label it opposition. The future favors aggressive retards.

>>63986246
Ah yes the famously large and healthy market of 8.6 blackout users. Of course 338 ARC is going to come in at a lower price point and just eat their lunch while drawing in its own crowd of cheaper shooters. Yep, saving that extra 40cpr and only spending 1.30 a round is worth developing another goddamned cartridge nobody asked for and not expanding production of the cartridges people want

Aside from desperate attempts from gun and ammo makers to convince people to buy yet another random ass propriety caliber, what the fuck am I missing about the proposed use case for these wonky ass cartridges? Discounting long range bench rest of course.
>"better" at home defense
Any subsonic round is going to do exactly one thing, and that's fail to expand or fragment. The only loads that will do anything at subsonic velocity are soft lead, ideally wadcutters. You're not going to feed wadcutters or swc through anything not manually operated reliably.
>but the ballistics gel
Is not flesh, nor does it behave like flesh
>but body armor
If you're worried about home invaders with body armor you need to move. I don't care what arguments you have. If you're spending the money it costs for one of these loads because of the possibility of Dindu Shitniggah and his crew of future astronauts coming in with level 3 vests is a credible threat you're an absolute idiot and would be better off spending that money to be literally anywhere else.
>it's cool
The only valid argument I will accept

I worked with a guy who had a 300 BO SBR with a can and the fixings for home defense. He lived 60 miles from the city, in the middle of a community the same skin color and values as his. He was more likely to have a coyote get into his house than anything else. It made no sense, especially considering all the other guns he had with much more common calibers that he was good with. He didn't like shooting the 300 BO because it cost so much. What do I just not get?

They should just make 9mm but with looong bullets and loaded to rifle pressures.

>>63987134
It’s not just that dumb shit like 338arc eats up manufacturing capacity. there are actually good and useful cartridges that can be developed, but instead we get meme bullshit. If they’re gonna make a new chambering, it should Atleast have some merit. 90% of the new cartridges we got over the last decade (or more) do not warrant their own existence. There is a 26, 24, 22, and now a 25 creedmoor. Just filling in that glaring gap in the cartridge lineup that the genius ballisticians identified. The market really NEEDS a 25 sneed, It unlocks new capabilities.

>>63987183
Re: the guy you work with

It’s hard to admit to oneself that guns are toys, so it’s easy to get carried away with the thought experiment that promoted you to build X gun. In his case, “the ideal home defense rig”. Yeah that might be true but the chances you’ll need to use it in your lifetime are close to zero, and the difference between your optimal build and literally any other gun is splitting hairs.

Someone coined the very apt term “gunko-pops” recently. It’s one thing to put guns together cause it’s fun and cool or whatever, it’s another to take the hobby way too seriously, LARP, etc.


Re: why does 338arc exist?

Really the only logical thing I can come up with is if you already have a 6arc gun with the LWRC six-8 spec lower receiver and you really want an SBR upper, then 338arc makes sense.

>>63987289
350 legend. Bullets aren’t long though, except for the super heavy subs.

Picrel
Left: 5.56
Center: 350 legend
Right: 400 legend

>>63987346
Appreciate the effort post. I have a very hard time believing someone at Hornaday who actually knows anything about the market and firearms design looked at a very specific combination of AR parts and said "there's enough market demand to tool up and introduce a new cartridge for this". The whole thing looks like clueless C level design by comittee "totally not going to be the 45GAP/357Sig/30SC flop again".

>>63986227
>What does this do that 300 BLK doesn't?

Subsonic is ironically the time where bigger buller = better.

9mm and .308 is all you need for non 5.56 applications

>>63987316
That or a genuine modern attempt at making a new micro round, basically a 25 and 32 killer that's meant for genuinely tiny pocket guns. 30 SC was a step in the right direction but it fucked up by having a retarded name (MicroMagnum would've been better) and touting it as another 9mm killer (which is like calling your game a Halo/GTA killer) instead of calling it a 380 killer

>>63987361
>Hey guys let's flip that whole 'market looking for a product' nonsense thing on it's head.
I CALL IT THE PRODUCT LOOKING FOR A MARKET
>Kids: Yeah! Yeah!

>>63987938
.22 TCM/.22TCM9R wasn't a bad idea at all, it just never caught on.
I mean who wants to pay more money for less bullet amirite guys?

>>63987938
.22 TCM/.22TCM9R wasn't a bad idea at all, it just never caught on.
The ammo is surprisingly cheap. $15/50 rounds is 9mm prices.

>>63986086 (OP)
>Mixtape
lol so heckin quirky and wholesome chungus 100

>>63986086 (OP)
>388 arc

>>63988528
quit giving them ideas

>>63986227
its heavier thats it
at least w 300 you have the 556 mag compatibility and super/sub option
AND its being used by various units so givernment money will make sure there is ammo supply available
my guess in 5 years you are going to need to load your own 338 arc because nobody will make the ammo

>>63988528
at this point just make a 50 cal subsonic
i remember there was this thing called 510 whisper or something but it failed

>>63988820
https://steinelammo.com/all-available-calibers/rifle-ammo/12-7x42/12-7-x-42mm-600gr-hard-cast-lfngc/
Just run it out of a 10" barrel, or load a super low density powder under those fat fucking pills.

>>63987118
>>63987122
whenever you bring up subsonic 300 blk, larpers like you will say
>9/45 is justasgood
fuck off, 338 subsonic is departure from any excuses pcc larpers might've had, the only thing they could say is that they're range toys for poors then

>>63987183
>and that's fail to expand
anon, you've missed decades of terminal ballistics development

>>63987938
>that or…

Oh you don’t understand, I’m not saying 25 sneed is a good idea lol. I’m criticizing the industry for necking a cartridge down by 0.007” and calling it something new, tooling up to make it, taking up manufacturing capacity from other more worthwhile projects, etc.

>30SC
It doesn’t really matter if anyone makes a cartridge better than 9mm. 9mm has so much inertia behind it that it’s never getting replaced by anything unless this new cartridge is a comprehensive improvement over 9mm in every single way and also wounds like a rifle. Then you maybe have a chance. A 1mm smaller case head allowing +1 or +2 rounds in the mag is not enough to overcome the popularity and industry support of 9mm. If it was, we’d all be shooting 5.7s now.

>>63989028
>he thinks it comes down to justasgood-isms
again, you don't understand the point of a pcc

>>63986227
338 bullet out of a small frame AR is the only benefit. In exchange, you get a weaker bolt, shit mags, and inferior 1:7 twist.

>>63988867
hmmm you know what that is a pretty interesting idea for manufacturing an ar upper
imagine a pistol length gas and integral suppressed style kinda like mp5sd.
suppressed 600.grain subsonic 50cal i think it might even have a practical use as hunting gun for short ranges, hogs or something idk im not a hunter

>>63989778
shieeet they make a 700 grain too

>>63989680
regardless of whatever your personal philosophical stance may be, it's a fucking fact that anons here argue that subsonic 300 blk are ballistically equivalent to 9mm/45acp PCCs. there's no debating this

>>63989817
Argue? As in, there is opposition? You mean to say I share this board with smoothbrains who think 9mm/45 > 300 blackout from a rifle?

>>63989817
ok that is pretty stupid

>>63987346
>Re:
just greentext like a normal person

>>63988309
If you want to be mad about the name you should direct it towards Q as it's an obvious nod to it being a knockoff of their "Boombox".

>>63989484
>I’m criticizing the industry for necking a cartridge down by 0.007” and calling it something new, tooling up to make it, taking up manufacturing capacity from other more worthwhile projects, etc.
You just don't understand bro.
>introduces .30 sc during covid ammo shortages
>we're really trying to get more ammo out guize pls understand =(((
>continues wasting machine time on shit no one wants
>yeah but we just can't get time for .38 you know?

>>63989715
Why has nobody bothered to use a 308 sized bolt for these cartridges? CMMG did it for the Dissent IIRC

>>63990208
.441 vs .470. It’s pretty close.

The POF revolution uses a 5.56-sized bolt bored out to accept a 308 case head. And it can withstand the bolt thrust of a 308. You’re right, it can be done*, but for one reason or another the industry has settled on the .441 case head as the alternative to the .378.

*not that it should be done, because the AR10 and short action cartridges already exist. You want a 338 bullet and 308 case head? 338 federal and 8.6 blackout exist.

>>63990275
pof revolution wonne a bonche of awards and then everyone forgot about it, norboaddy cares. when they'res yet another poaster asking >why haven't theye have makethe thisse, it makes mine eyes rolle.

>>63986227
>>63986246
Doesn't have the high twist rate short barrel big game cachet of 8.6, nor the non-proprietary reloader cachet of 338 Razorback/Spectre.

>>63990324
>338 razorback.

Is that the one where the bullet is like 2x longer than the case? AP2020 on YouTube fangirls over it?

>338 spectre
Right, I forgot about this. 338ARC already existed but hornady went and made a worse version of it anyways.

>>63986460
interdasting. not that anon, but that you.

>>63989484
>It doesn’t really matter if anyone makes a cartridge better than 9mm. 9mm has so much inertia behind it that it’s never getting replaced
That's why anon said it should have been the 380 killer.
The 380 market is divided by subcompacts in pure blowback and locked breech compacts which offer little over the 9mm offer.
If you offer something with more heat than 380 and an extra round at the cost of flash and noise you may have a proposition the market can consider. When trying to compete with 9mm you just lose.
>>63990145
>introduces .30 sc during covid ammo shortages
>continues wasting machine time on shit no one wants
In all fairness it was all put in motion before the coof and by the time they had to make a decision they were too far into the investment to stop the train.

>>63993162
> That's why anon said it should have been the 380 killer.

God I’m retarded. I missed that part, lol.

Isn’t 9mm the 380acp killer? It’s about 1/6” longer. That’s all. Why would anybody opt for a 380 when subcompact short recoil 9mm’s exist?

>>63993222
Effectively it is given how micro 9s have basically eaten up the market for small pistols that will actually kill someone instead of slightly annoy them. It's why I think there's room for something that can play 380s game in a smaller form factor. Just like how 25 and 32 were made to allow guns to get super tiny I think the market has a place for something on the same scale as a P32 but chambered in something not shit

>.338 ARC
Why does this utter nonsense exist? .300 Blackout already fills this role perfectly and you can use normal mags because it's parent isn't the hopeless abortion of a parent known as fucking 6.5 Grendel.
>Hello yes I would like even heavier and more expensive ammo for zero useful benefit
Deranged.

>>63993257
You don’t understand. The geniuses over at hornady went and made a combination of case diameter, case length, and bullet diameter that has never been done before. That’s called innovation. It’s groundbreaking. It will have reverberations in every facet of society akin to the development of the first firearm. All of hornady is just staffed with clones of John browning. Low brow apes like us just can’t comprehend innovation of this magnitude.

>>63993286
You see, what they did was super innovative. They took the .300 Blackout and made it 4x as expensive, and gave it 50% more damage.
The modern warfare people are going to shit their pants when they realize you can just go to the gun store and buy such powerful bullets
Broccoli heads are going to dunk themselves in the velveeta over this.

>>63993286
It will have reverberations in my fucking dick and balls and also the wallets of anyone gullible enough to fall for this crap.

>>63993256
Imagine a P32 in .30 SC. That'd be sick, and an absolute bitch to shoot.

>>63989817
Id rather have a pcc than deal with meme ammo if my life is on the line. Logistics trumps marginal performance gains when 300 Body Odor and others like it lack enough force the guarrantee a one shot stop center of mass like 5.56 or .308 out of a 16" barrel.

>>63987346
re: tarded newfag

>>63994791
I dunno man, my Shield PC shoots like a full size thanks to the porting. Maybe if paired with a rotating barrel you could get a super tiny 30SC gun that doesn't beat the piss oit of your hand

>>63994929
Rotating barrel would make it affter, maybe a little bit shorter longitudinally and vertically but that's it. You'd need to change the link length and lengthen and strengthen the slide and frame a bit, but that's all it would take to adapt the P32 to .30 SC, since both cartridges are dimensionally (apart from COAL) very similar.

>>63986086 (OP)
>destroy PCC larpers with 338 ARC
What kind of brain dead take is this. .300 already BTFOs full size PCCs outside of ammo cost and availability. Some new fotm cartridge with even worse pricing and availability doesn't change anything.

>>63994860
fuck you saar

>>63993222
>Why would anybody opt for a 380 when subcompact short recoil 9mm’s exist?
Because you can't pocket carry those like you can a Bodyguard 2.0 or a LCP.

>>63986157
>>63986160
>>63986227
I think it's cool. Why the hate?

You get 300+ grains, compared to the 300 Blackout's typical 220 grains (not counting cast lead bullets of course).

But that's not the whole story, 338 ARC also has a 20% larger bullet from the front. So 20% more chance to hit vitals or nervous system. 300blk's biggest weakness is that subsonics are essentially guaranteed to overpenetrate due to their unusually high sectional density. A 220grain spitzer 300 blackout will easily go through two blocks of gelatin. In practice this is very wasteful and not what you want.

They didn't use a rarted twist rate like the 8.6 BLK, so handloaders will be able to use plated or cast bullets unlike 8.6 which requires very pricey solid copper bullets particularly for supersonic shooting.

>>64000700
>Unironically using 220grn spitzer subs for HD in current year
It's okay to be poor anon, you can just use Lake City M193 and forget all this. I won't judge you for it. You don't have to get a meme gun in a meme caliber to be cool.

>>64000807
Thanks chatGPT, but my post never mentioned home defense. I was also objectively critical about 300 blackout subsonics. You'll have to do better.

>>64001012
ngmi

>>63990145
they fucked up not using .30 carbine as the parent caase

>>64001707
NTA.

Such a cartridge already exists. The Belgian 7.92x24VBR. It’s a shortened 30 carbine necked up to its true straight-walled caliber of 7.92mm. Picrel: three 7.92x24’s next to a 5.7x28. The capacity of an 18 round 9mm mag would increase to 20 rounds without increasing mag length.

https://military-history.fandom.com/wiki/7.92%C3%9724mm

>>64001707
>>64001922
Here’s another picture of a wider assortment of 7.92 rounds. It’s got two standard overall lengths - one for 9mm/40SW guns, and the other for 45ACP/10mm guns

>>64001930
A neat thing about this round is that it can readily fit in two rows in the space of a single row of .45 acp, allowing easy conversion and also ammowing double stack guns to have grips as thin as a 1911.

>>64001972
Well, they won’t exactly be the same width. The double stacked 7.92 would be 16.8mm wide (case diameter*1.87), and the 45 ACP single stacked is 12.1mm.

the 1911 is wasteful with what it allocates grip width to. Just use slimmer grip panels or reengineer the whole thing to not need grip panels and you can fit like 20 rounds in the grip of a cartridge as potent as 45ACP.

This would work extremely well for subcompacts, where both mag width and length are constrained. Maybe with the smaller case head, double stack double feed is possible? That would add 2 or 3 rounds to the mag without increasing length, that’s on top of a 10% increase in capacity by virtue of a smaller case. You may have to use a hi-power style of trigger and sear since there wouldn’t be any room for a trigger bar. Maybe +3 rounds in a subcompact is worth it.

>>63993286
>>63993545
>>63993672
It's just better than 300, and cost is only a problem for early adopters. People would bitch and moan all day long here about how 6.5cm was too expensive and will never replace .308 for the lack of availability and good prices, but it basically already has. The REAL reason hornady made this was because Kevin is a giant fag and 8.6 was never going to get saami certs. Rather than throwing the baby out with the bath water, they made their own using existing, under utilized lines (6.5 grendel is just not that popular).

>>63993257
>heavier
>zero useful benefit
Is there something about subsonics you aren't aware of, anon?

>>63986086 (OP)
Ok, eternal pcc fags I need help. I have a friend who bought a house. A house with a big fuck off main hall thats maybe 40-50 yards end to end. Friend is also liberal as hell with his liberal wife. Initially made fun of me for owning pistols. Realizes now that his big house in fuck off nowhere is a huge fucking target and he has nothing to stop a passing meth head from becoming his castle's king. He's asked me to teach them to shoot and help with his hd solution.

Started with pistols. He got it real quick wife is struggling. Turns out shes a lefty. Ok cool, happen to have ambi pistols. Turns out recoil scares them. Then I pulled out the sig rattler. She loves it and wants to learn to shoot it. He's hesitant because it looks scary.

I worry the recoil, even with a brake will be too much and put them off. I want to tell them to get a shotgun with 00 shells, but they kenneled their dog right at the opposite end if the hall, so accuracy is a must. Part of me wants to tell them to go 5.7, another stribog, and another is just man up and 300 bo. Thoughts? Training is still progressing. Baby steps.

>>64002089
>it’s just better

I understand every cartridge is a compromise in various metrics and there’s always something a cartridge does better than others. The question is, what exactly is it better at doing? A slight, theoretical improvement on paper is not enough to justify the headache and cost of switching over. You need far more than that. So the 338 arc has like 200 ft*lbs on the 300 blackout (with a worse bullet shape btw). So what? What real world benefit does this yield?

Also, 338 Spectre already exists and does everything 338 arc does, with a higher mag capacity and less bolt thrust. So you know what, I was wrong, there is *nothing* 338 arc does better than 338 spectre, not even on paper. Hornady shouldn’t have even bothered with 338ARC.

Another thing. These short (2.26”) cartridges with a gigantic case head just aren’t meant for the ar15. One makes too many compromises just for the sake of sticking to ar15 pattern receivers and accessories. The industry would do well to cultivate a rich aftermarket around the ar10. If you wanna shoot 300gr .338 subs, you could get a semi-proprietary receiver set with nonstandard mags or you could just get an ar10 in 8.6 blackout, and also be able to shoot 2000+fps supers and (in a hypothetical world where I’m in charge of cartridge development) 100gr VLDs at 3000+fps.

>>64002141
>she loves the sig rattler
>he thinks it looks scary

What the fuck is it with liberals, man? You know the scooby doo movie where the monsters make everybody switch souls, and the guys get girl souls and vice-versa? It’s like that.

Anyways, force your beliefs and preferences on your childlike friends. Simply declare that their home defense gun with be a suppressed 300 blackout SBR, and help them get one or even just put it together yourself.

>ultra light
>ultra short
>ultra quiet

That’s really all that matters. Maybe don’t tell the man about expanding bullets or he might freak out, cite The Hague declaration, and hide behind his wife. “Omg it’s like literally a war crime, and war crimes are for Nazis!”

>>64002141
>worried about recoil
>want to tell them to get a shotgun with 00 shells
???

>>63986460
appreciate the breakdown, it's been tough trying to keep up with the new wildcat calibers for SBR/Suppressed stuff.

>>64002472
Recoil once was the thought process. I worry about follow up shots.

>>64002141
It's pricey as hell and uses a bunch of proprietary parts but if recoil for a PCC is their primary concern about looking into a CMMG Banshee? The recoil system it uses is lower than a standard blowback and it does at least partially work with a bunch of off the shelf AR parts so it'd be the most familiar from a manual of arms perspective at least.

>>64002563
I was actually looking at the dissent, she's a lefty and its fucking me all up to hell when i demo.

>>64002591
gotcha, well hopefully they can find something they like. I have a Scorpion myself, but it definitely needs a lot of tweaking to be an optimal PCC, but I love it, especially suppressed.

It does have a noticeable amount of recoil, but again with enough tweaking it's fairly easily mitigated and it's dirt simple to maintain and run, even before I suppressed it.

>>64002141
>main hall thats maybe 40-50 yards end to end
kek did he move into one of those gay ass barndominiums?

>>63990324
>Doesn't have the high twist rate short barrel big game cachet of 8.6

isn't the high twist rate 'BUZZ SAW EFFECT' shit a giant meme?

>>64002273
>suppressed 300 blackout SBR
i hate this meta, if you can even call it that

>>64003880
>i hate this meta

300blk PDWs haven't been cool for like a decade.

>>64002240
What do .338 spectre supers look like?

>>64002240
>worse bullet shape
What do you mean?

>>64004210
To improve the weight of the subs, they have to add more volume to the ogive, degrading its drag characteristics. I got a little carried away with my rant and didn’t remember that ogive length/shape hardly matters at speed below sound.

>>64003880
>I hate cool guns because I love cocks in my mouth and anus.

Why though?

lol, jokes aside, SBRs are all the rage, and there is a centuries long trend of guns getting shorters, so dedicated SBR calibers we’re bound to happen and become very popular. Really though, what don’t you like about it? (We are talking about home defense, not 100yd+ shooting)

>>64003969
I don’t think 338 spectre supers exist. But since the only nontrivial difference between it and the 338 arc is 0.5mm in case head diameter, their performance ought to be very similar. The 338 spectre can be loaded to higher pressures for the same bolt thrust to make up for this difference.

>>64004359
It took a little digging since most load data I can find is just anecdotal, but I looked up some super loads for .338 spectre. It seems like they are/were 223gr@1600fps. .338 arc has factory loads of 175gr@2045fps. Anecdotally, people seem to be loading supers for spectre with 165gr/175gr to about 1900fps, but there is no saami or cip spec so it's just kind of anyone's idea of "safe" how exactly how it should be done

>>64004359
300blk suppressed SBRs are cool and have their place among enthusiasts and professionals, but pretending they're remotely practical (which includes economic considerations) for simple home defense use cases is insane.
Its like recommending a riced out F250 for a person who might need to pull a trailer on a rare occasion. No sense of appropriately managed risk