Thread 63995153

In the most recent Osprey book, called " Tanks in Ukraine 2022" there is this map, picrel.
I personally don't especially remember VDV units being used at the South front. Does anybody know more?

I also don't agree with this author's statement:
>"While armour played a very limited role in various NATO out-of-area operations in the Middle East and Africa, the closest thing to real tank-on-tank actions involving European forces took place in the context of the 1990–91 Iraq War."
i think that engagements like the Battle of 73 Easting were full on tank battles, not just "the closest thing to real tank-on-tank actions".

>>63995153 (OP)
73 Easting is a "true" tank battle, correct.

I think I see his angle. Yeah 73 Easting is categorically tank-on-tank, but 36 M1s taking out 160 T62s without any losses feels a little too one-sided to count as a genuine battle.

>>63995153 (OP)
>not just "the closest thing to real tank-on-tank actions".
The last time NATO tanks fired at another tank in combat was during the 2003 invasion of Iraq. I dont know about any other time after the Iraq invasion.

>>63995153 (OP)
The full paragraph:
>The full-scale invasion of Ukraine in February 2022 saw mechanized war return to Europe. Beyond the Balkan Wars and 2008 invasion of Georgia, European conflicts had been small-scale and ‘hybrid’ (such as in Crimea1) or scarcely-mechanized (including the undeclared war in the Donbas).
>While
armour played a very limited role in various NATO out-of-area operations in the Middle East and Africa, the closest thing to real tank-on-tank actions involving European forces took place in the context of the 1990–91 Iraq War,
some 30 years prior.

>>63995153 (OP)
The full paragraph:
>The full-scale invasion of Ukraine in February 2022 saw mechanized war return to Europe. Beyond the Balkan Wars and 2008 invasion of Georgia, European conflicts had been small-scale and ‘hybrid’ (such as in Crimea1) or scarcely-mechanized (including the undeclared war in the Donbas).
>While armour played a very limited role in various NATO out-of-area operations in the Middle East and Africa, the closest thing to real tank-on-tank actions involving European forces took place in the context of the 1990–91 Iraq War,
some 30 years prior.

>>63995153 (OP)
>I personally don't especially remember VDV units being used at the South front. Does anybody know more?
A lot of little tactical stuff, not as dramatic as Hostomel. They'd drop a company or two 5 or 10 kliks behind the line to grab a bridge or other chokepoint. Generally, it was effective at forcing a withdraw, but it also meant that the Ukies ran them the fuck over on their way out.

>>63995153 (OP)
It's hard to call 73 Easting a real tank battle when it was a complete turkey shoot for the Americans thanks to their superior optics.
Iraqis couldn't even see the vehicles blowing them to pieces in the sandstorm, and the battle only happened between tanks because of the poor weather to begin with. Without that sand, the air force would've resolved the situation before the armor rolled in.

>>63995153 (OP)
>engagements like the Battle of 73 Easting were full on tank battles
a line of M1 Abrams rolling through the desert and wallhaxing a bunch of stationary obsolete soviet junk that can't even shoot back is not a "battle"

>>63996289
>You will never reach the level of Euphoria those tank crews experienced
Why even bother

>>63995153 (OP)
Neither Russia or Ukraine can field armored units much beyond a company level, Russia has access to exactly one real major armored unit and that isn't leaving Pyongyang unless Putin coughs up the Norks GDP in gold bars.

>>63996350

Have the Russians effectively lost all their armour and their only real shot at having tanks for the foreseeable future is whatever to Norks have in storage?

Recommend me some good books on the war.

>>63996372
More or less yes but i was specifically talking about armored units with the structure and logistics to carry out large scale operations. The unit i was thinking of was the KPA 105th Armored Division and it's support units, it might very well be the last real Armored Division on earth. The majority of them (including the US) are administrative structures that are divisions only in name, the 105th is a proper full scale division.

It wouldn't even work anyway, with proper support it could break any line Ukraine (or probably even NATO) and even take a major city but it would be annihilated doing it and there would be no way to exploit it or even hold what they took. Theoretically if they sent their two modern Mech Infantry divisions they could even do a two pronged attack across the river in the south but that would just make the aftermath a even worse disaster.

Putin couldn't afford it anyway, something like that would cost 20-25% of their gold reserves and it simply would not be effective besides a few weeks of mayhem. Since they couldn't reinforce or exploit it the effort would probably lead to a collapse of the entire Russian front. Even if they took Sumy and Kherson they would immediately lose them.

>>63996468
>with proper support it could break any line Ukraine (or probably even NATO) and even take a major city but it would be annihilated doing it
It could not. That concentration of force would be identified well before it actually managed to be ready for that operation, and it would be attrited well beyond mission capability far before it actually set off.
Modern ISTAR and indirect fires are capable enough to where the only way to actually break through them is to destroy them. The 105th has no ability to do so, so it would fall prey to whatever long-range fires its enemies bring to bear on it.

This entire dynamic is the core focus of modern warfare.
>you will be seen
>you will be hit
So the only way to win is to see the enemy more than they see you and to hit them harder than they hit you. Nothing the Norks have is anywhere near even capable of this.

>>63996547
The Pyongyang Defense Corps absolutely could do it, they are probably the only army group on earth that still acts like a Corps level army group with divisional level command and control.

They would be destroyed doing it but the 105th Armored Division can put a hole in any defensive line on earth. Them and their two mechanized support divisions can break any defensive line, anywhere on the planet.

They would be slaughtered as soon as anyone figured out what was going on but they could do it, they would be sacrificing themselves to break the line.

Putin can't afford them and i seriously doubt Kim will sell them no matter what Putin offers.

>>63997093

You say that because your family back in North Korea is being held at gunpoint.

>>63996547
While i acknowledge that 40,000+ Norks plus 1000+ armored vehicles would be noticed, would anyone be able to do anything about it, try to stop it or even be capable of doing so?

If they were in rear areas and there were enough of them they would has a mass of firepower that could not be stopped, we are talking about divisions not the company level shit that goes on right now.

They could hammer a hole in almost any line at the cost of themselves. They could do it, the problem is they would die doing it for no real gain.

Putin can't afford it and even if he could, Kim isn't selling them.

>>63997161
The fact that you don't know who i am immediately marks you as a shill, tourist or bot.

>>63996468
I don’t know how military formations work but I just googled it and Wikipedia says it has 6000 men and 120 tanks. Googling similar units for other countries, an American armored brigade has 84 tanks and 4000 men and a Chinese heavy brigade has 114 tanks and 5000 men. So they’re not too far off in size but 1000x more advance technology. What makes the North Korean unit so much better?

>>63997252
Almost all 'divisions' are administrative units and combat units in the modern era are companies, brigades or battalions. They are administrative units, not operational ones. To get a full Armored Division working as one unit takes a huge amount of effort.

It is very rare to be able to organize a full Armored Division in this era, the Nork 105th Armored Division is one of those rare cases.

>>63995199
>While armour played a very limited role in various NATO out-of-area operations in the Middle East and Africa, the closest thing to real tank-on-tank actions involving European forces took place in the context of the 1990–91 Iraq War,
>some 30 years prior.
Was there no tank on tank violence in Yugoslavia?

>>63996341
It was a maneuver warfare symphony even if the opponent was retarded and blind. Quite a nice drill exhibition.

>>63997093
That's why you give them a "pocket" to collapse in, they do more harm to themselves in failing to "break" anything, over step, and find themselves in a planned killbox.

>>63997214
You're not even the trip caliber that Lady was and she was a whacked out cunt. Get over being annoying.

>>63997318
It would be the 105th, 2 Nork mech infantry divisions and around 75-125K Russian mobniks to do it not to mention giving the DPRK total control over all theater fire support and tactical air assets.

It would not be enough. The Norks could punch the hole in the lines and could even take a few objectives (cities even) but they would have no support, they would waste their best units for no gain. The Nork units would be destroyed achieving the objectives and Russia would not be able to hold them.

Unless Putin shows up in Pyongyang with 1000 tons of gold bars and 100 tons of 90% enriched weapons grade uranium it isn't happening.

>>63997214
>Triptard has a massive ego and can't handle it when reality hits
Shocking!

>>63997396
>OMG he uses a tripcode!

Fuck off shill, i know who i am and who real /k/ posters are. I may have my faults but you are obviously a tourist/troll.

https://www.criticalthreats.org/analysis/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-february-25-2022
https://medium.com/@x_TomCooper_x/ukraine-war-4-5-april-2022-c48bc3767176
This units:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7th_Guards_Mountain_Air_Assault_Division
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/11th_Guards_Air_Assault_Brigade

>>63997441
I always find it hilarious how tripfags always respond in exactly this way when they find out the truth.

>>63997528
Please tell me what 'truth' that is supposed to be, you accused me of being a North Korean which is clearly untrue. Perhaps you are jealous of the swag that DPRK appreciators like myself have?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NjkcjueR4k&list=RD2NjkcjueR4k&start_radio=1

>>63997571
Shut up Nork.

>>63997571
I'm not him, I'm just laughing because you're doing the typical "don't you know who I am?" tripfaggotry. Sorry, but if you want people to do anything but roll their eyes and scroll down as soon as they see your trip, your dumb gimmick isn't going to work. You'll need to get caught fucking a dog or something.

>>63997583
Do you really think that telling a obsessive autistic egotistical tripfag to 'shut up Nork'' on /k/ will have the desired result? You are embarrassing yourself, please cease for your own mental health.

>>63997598
Self replying isn't going to avoid the fact that you are arguing with a person that it is impossible to win a argument with given your current opinions.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QdrYCgVv0iA&t=5s

>>63997623
I don't see the point of being rude to those who you have a irreconcilable difference of opinion with, just get over it and have a polite conversation about other things.

Everyone should indeed 'keep on trucking'

Or boating if you have ever seen Gator:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aTizhIX7X2o