Back in November, the German army put in a tender for a new service pistol in 9×19mm as the successor to the P8. CZ has been selected this month to produce up to 186000 of the replacement pistol P13. They beat out Glock and Arex in the final round. Everyone in the guessing thread was wrong! Congrats.

Tender
https://desuarchive.org/k/thread/62829745

Hartpunkt
https://archive.is/5NtsJ

Calibre (english version of hartpunk article)
https://archive.is/zBrUR

>>64004709 (OP)
Why didn’t they go for Walther or HK?

>>64004734
All submissions met the technical requirements so cost was the deciding factor

>>64004748
Wew. German companies going bankrupt like hay in a field yet they go for the cheapest option instead of saving money elsewhere like Achmed and his 20 children

>I put the fucking title in the name field
Wow. This is the first time I've fucked this up, ever, in my entire history of creating threads. There's gotta be a special award for that. Far more special than a Posted It Again award, so I won't delete and remake the thread.

>>64004781
>There's gotta be a special award for that.
How about you namefag as bundeswehr selects CZ for new pistol P13 for 1 month on 4chan?
Think of it as a special kind of punishment.

>>64004767
Walther got the pistol contract for the folks who actually need them and HK is literally swimming in money - GraPi, P8, MP7, G36, MG4, MG5, G28 + all the other 416/417 variants in service, UBGLs etc.
They'll be fine

>>64004709 (OP)
>bundeswehr doesn't use HK pistols anymore
>they don't even use a German manufacturer
Fuck this gay globohomo world.

>>64004799
Time for Germany to invade Czechia again!

>>64004734
Czech's are honorary Germans, it's fine.

>>64004799
america's standard issue infantry rifle is made by a swiss company and lots of M4s are made by FN

>>64004816
2025 SIG Sauer is german owned and produces in america.

What's the CZ model? All their polymer handguns look so cheap and ugly. This is sad.

>>64004808
I think every European nation is so terminally cucked that none of them have the means to invade any other one.

>>64004820
>none of them have the means to invade any other one
Some of the more ready armies definitely have the means. It would be an absolute clusterfuck in several regards, but the capabilties are there.

>>64004767
lmao retard

>>64004709 (OP)
Congratulations to CZ!

>>64004820
>What's the CZ model?
Some P10 version, probably close to the one that lost against Glock in the French pistol contract

>>64004709 (OP)
>>64004767
fucking grim man

doesnt even make sense
Arex is a german company so a lot of the money spent will just flow back into the economy

>>64004865
Arex is Slovenian

>>64004887
a fugg

>>64004748
>We saved at best $20million out of a multi trillion dollar budget.
It's literally nothing. Especially over a 20+ year lifecycle of a weapon. Walther deserved to win it.

>>64004899
but was Walther even part of the final round?
maybe it was just straight up worse?

>>64004748
>year is 2125
>all world products produced in one neutral city-factory optimized for cost efficiency and maximizing shareholder value
>all products shipped to respective countries after traveling across the globe multiple times because AI has optimized shipping routes required for every country
>drones have absolutely topped military strategy for a century, completely topples existing military strategy
>all world militaries have made the tactical decision to shift to the cheapest options available due to the extreme capitalist society forced upon us
>all infantry issued with single use plastic small arms, once you run through the magazine you just toss the whole gun because the plastic barrel is shot out and manufacturing means it's cheaper to produce a new complete rifle than to reload one
>value of human life at all time low, all armored vehicles replaced with plastic shells on motors with the goal of moving as many bodies to the front as possible
>wars decided based on financial loss, you win if you can save .05 more cents on every one of the millions of drones you ship out than the opponent
>robots are more expensive than human life, they operate all backline operations to free up more meat for the Frontline
Photocopy this post, physical media is the only thing worth anything after the collapse of the internet

>>64004865
>a lot of the money spent will just flow back into the economy

how?

>>64004816
>>64004819
https://www.spiegel.de/wirtschaft/unternehmen/sig-sauer-waffenhersteller-schliesst-deutschen-produktionsstandort-a-a5b94214-cb8f-4fad-a5da-ed906eb1aa8c
Sig Sauer Inc is a completely different company than the German and Swiss ones. Sig Sauer inc has 10 times the employees than either the German or Swiss ones. In fact both the German and Swiss are legacy at this point and don’t produce or design anything.

>>64004791
Fuck. I'm gonna kms (in meinkraft).

>>64004887
I like them.

>>64004913
No:
>The framework agreement will run for seven years and only the three most cost-effective offers will be shortlisted. Proposed models must have been introduced in a NATO country in quantities of over 5000 in the last five years, or such an introduction must be pending. Comparative testing is not planned; instead, documentation and test reports are required. The only award criterion is the price.

The top three shortlist was Arex, CZ, Glock.

>>64004899
The bundeswehr needs to beg for permission, individually, from parliament for every procurement over 25 million euros.

So they have a perverse incentive to structure contracts as an initial (tiny) award followed by a primary, multi-year award. The main award's tender is initiated right at the end of the fiscal year preceding an election, then it's actually awarded in the year of the election (post-election). It's timed to run as long as possible without lapsing two election cycles (7 years).

That's exactly what was done here. This maximizes their odds of actually managing to fund the whole program. And it means that lowest-cost-wins is often the easiest way to get the ball rolling.

>>64004921
absolute /k/ienma

>>64004922
people usually spend most of the money in the country they live in

>>64004965
Owned by L&O Holding, as in Michael Lüke and Thomas Ortmeier (lmao) based in Emsdetten, Germany

what chance is there they'll sell the P8s as surplus in the US?

Good choice
>Keeps costs down
>Reminds HK they're replaceable if they fuck up
>Doesn't matter if the gun is a bit subpar because pistol

>>64004734
One article says HK doesn't even bother due to price requirement. Walther got the P14 i.e. PDO) tender for German special forces.

>>64005096
Walther PDP, my bad for phoneposting

>>64004816
Sig Sauer Incorporated and FN America are US companies. It’s a requirement for getting these contracts. Retards don’t understand how moving most of your manufacturing overseas is a national security issue, but even your dumbest, most doorbell humping retard understands that other countries shouldn’t make your weaponry.

>>64004965
German sig sauer is totally defunct. Swiss sig sauer still produces for the swiss army.
>>64005011
They also own J.P. Sauer (where the sauer name comes from), Mauser, Blaser, German Sports Guns, and several textile companies for some reason.

>>64004816
moron

>>64004709 (OP)

Some of those soldiers look so old they may have previously been issued with Reichsrevolvers.

>>64005493
>The average age in Germany is 46.8 years according to CIA World Factbook data.

>>64005493
Reservists
https://www.dbwv.de/aktuelle-themen/service-recht/beitrag/mindestleistungen-fuer-reservedienst-leistende-werden-angepasst

>>64005493
East "German" excellency

According to the specifications, the firearm must have a barrel with an external thread (M13.5×1) to allow for the attachment of muzzle devices, including suppressors. Additionally, the pistol’s slide must be compatible with micro red dot sights (Optics Ready, OR). The firearm is also required to have a universal mounting rail (Picatinny/MIL-STD-1913 standard) under the barrel at the front of the frame. This setup allows for the attachment of flashlights or laser aiming devices.

>At the opening of the tender, price was listed as the sole award criterion with a 100 percent weighting.

So, a new and modular, but cheap. Sounds very much like some version of CZ P-10.
A cheap but perfectly functional glock-clone.
Yeah, about exactly what the gun was meant to be: For military//Law enforcement contracts in large scale.

And I think that CZ can provide that last requirement (CHEAP) better than any german manufacturers.

>>64004709 (OP)
I am truly sorry.
t. Czech

>>64005493
Some of the German MG3 receivers are reclaimed MG42 receivers from WWII. I wonder if there's anything else from WWII that's still in Bundeswehr service or storage today.

>>64009208
Honestly i'd be surprised if there weren't.
Pic semi rel and it's probably not even of the oldest equipment Binland has in its inventory

>>64009228
that might be the design year but I'd be surprised if the can itself has held up that long

>>64010591

>>64010920
i saw

>>64005021
low

>>64009228
ah hell naw the wehrmacht using comic sans

>>64009208
The K98 Karabiner of the Wachbattallion come to mind.
There actually was a huge scandal a few years ago bc they still had the windmill of peace markings.

They also use WWII US howitzers for ceremonial purposes.

>>64009148
Some german gunblogger (yes, they exist) claimed that these guns are obsolete because they require you to pull the trigger for disassembly, which will statistically kill people because idiots will do it with a round in the chamber. He'd rather have them order HK. Wonder whether that would statistically be worth the cost though.

Reminder that since the US Civil War the choice of individual small arms has never had any meaningful effect on the outcome of any peer conflict and pistols are an active hazard to the troops who are issued them.

>>64004816
>'''swiss''' company
Yes yes sarrrr, Microsoft tech support is now honorary Mountain Jew indeed. Pls do not redeem XM7 because it's perfectly fine infantry weapon.

>>64004709 (OP)
>>64004748
>no nonsense or gimmicks Czech made Glock but with better Ergo's that JUST WERKS
Yeah that's fine. Investing in bomb proof shelters, air superiority, and NV's is more worth wild than worrying about designing a new handgun from the ground up.

>>64004734
>Why didn’t they go for Walther or HK?
Good but over priced guns, they'll still likely get contracts from special forces and private sales anyway.

>>64013234
Generalize it to all small arms or you're an unprincipled pussy.

>>64004798
HK reported 81M in revenue last quarter, I would assume for such a historic company thats pretty low. Might my own bias however. 343M total in 2024.
Idk whats the norm for small arms manufacturers, CZ/Colt reported 262M for last quarter (right before colt it was around 96.5M).

>>64013311
>Lowered the grade of steel to Western standards
I wonder if this is true, and the Commies really did place that much emphasis on their execution-poppers, or if this is just another contrarian Jap yearning for Nippon Teikoku's return...

>>64015174
>I wonder if this is true
It’s bullshit. Czechoslovak material science was ass.
>execution-poppers
CZ75 was meant to be purely an export article from the beginning of the project.

>>64014631
Literally already does which you would have realized if you could actually read.

Grim. The P10 is fucking gross.

>>64004816
Singh Sewer (USA) is an Indo-Israeli company and FN USA is based in the US, and even if it wasn't it's still using the Colt TDP for the M4 and M16A4.
>>64013311
>make some of the levers bigger
This is the only reason I would never buy a CZ75. I like how it shoots and everything about it but my fingers/hands are too small to hit the slide catch.
>>64015636
Meh. Most polymer strikers look equally ugly to me so I'm not fazed by it.

>>64004799
>>64004865
>let's prefer ideology over practicality
This is why Dolfi lost, anon.
Besides, our economy (and nearly everything else) is so intertwined with Germany that we might as well be part of it. I know that my money definitely go back to German economy, because I'm regularly paying for a milf dominatrix there.
t. Sudeten Czech

>Czech company provides a completely serviceable handgun that is cheaper than overdesigned, overpriced German autism

Imagine my surprise.

>>64016111
If it was about practicality they would just keep the P8 and call it a day since they’re built to last but I guess the reason why they have to be cheap is so they are easy to replace, especially after the scandal of Muslims in Germany having both police and Bundeswehr pistols at their disposal through infiltration.

>>64016471
>better than the P8
>cheaper, too
>this is not a practical solution

>>64016499
>better
Source?
>cheaper
Highly doubt buying new ones is cheaper than maintaining the ones you already have, especially with HK which are as mentioned built to last to begin with.

>>64016622
>lighter
>ready to take all the modern attachments out of the box (this is another venture where it gets a lot cheaper when we are talking about thousands of units)
>just as well made as HK stuff
>~30 years of improvements
P8 is not a bad gun, but it is also an old design. If you think adopting a cheaper and better gun is somehow an ideological choice, you should be explaining why.

>>64015605
>pistols are an active hazard to the troops who are issued them.
There were two claims, megabrain.
>0KMYS
You're right, captcha. Never kill myself.

>>64015695
>Singh Sewer vs. Sikh Saar
Who wins the civil war?

This is a tough one. Have to root for the Sikhs for historical /k/ reasons, but the non-Sikhs have the numbers.

>>64017322
Both of which are correct:

>Individual small arms do not determine peer outcomes
>Pistols are a net negative force multiplier for the military and are a hazard to the troops

The anon in question didn't properly read the statement before he responded.

>>64017342
>small arms are an active hazard to the troops who are issued them.
Come on, man. It was supposed to be simple bantz.

>>64017569
Not all small arms, pistols specifically. Besides very limited special duties they have no place in a typical soldiers hands in a real military. They cause more losses from intentional misuse, accidents and suicides than they inflict on the enemy. Every penny spent on them and every moment spent training with them is wasted.

>>64016111
>because I'm regularly paying for a milf dominatrix there.
Where ? How much ? How good ? How expensive would an SNCF + Deutsche Bahn trip to the place be ?

>>64004709 (OP)
>Czech superiority recognized
I'm warm and fuzzy inside anons.

>>64018895
I would prefer for said superiority to be acknowledged by adopting a gun that isn't dogshit tbqhkamaráde.

>>64017612
>They cause more losses from intentional misuse, accidents and suicides than they inflict on the enemy.
This is almost certainly true of all small arms. Ordnance and intelligence do all the work.

>>64004921
>robots are more expensive than human life