Thread 64005306

The M16's adoption is a masterpiece of MIC corruption, everything that could have gone wrong did go wrong. Lies, monopolies, coverups and undue blame on the US Army killed a fantastic service rifle (M14) and put a rifle into service that killed US troops and outright led to units avoiding combat.

>ammunition
The M16's ammunition was virtually handmade, with powder that could not be produced in any large quantities, a absolute disaster as the Rounds Per Causality between the M14 (3000) and the M16 (120,000) was absolutely ridiculous. Good for ammunition companies though.
>reeeeee muh chrome
The M1, M1/2/3 carbine, and the M14 had chrome lined barrels and chambers. Colt insisted that their rifle didn't require it to lower costs.
>M14 weight
Was solved by issuing the brown polymer stocks, which put the M14 in the same weight as a AR10.
>muh assault rifle doctrine
Easily solved by issuing "light ball" or the XM198 "green tip" used most famously by MOH winner Robert L. Howard.

The cost overruns, lives lost, and outright malfeasance by Colt should have spelled doom for that company, but unfortunately they would chug along for another 40 years before getting their comeuppance.

>>64005306 (OP)
You’re gay?

>>64005306 (OP)
>The M1, M1/2/3 carbine, and the M14 had chrome lined barrels and chambers.
This is incorrect.

>>64005306 (OP)
the very definition of a low quality post.

>>64005306 (OP)
You should never have been adopted.

>>64005329
>the M1 Garand didn't have CHF
Wrong. In 1944 Chrome lineing was required by all M1's.
>M2/M3
Yes.
>M14
Really?

>>64005306 (OP)
the m14 was a piece of shit and universally hated
the real corrupt thing we did was reject the FAL after telling the designers to switch it to a more powerful cartridge, then move to the m16 which had a cartridge similar to what the FAL's designers originally had in mind
also we'd have gotten curbstomped even harder in vietnam if we kept using the m14 because its such a piece of shit

>>64005318
>>64005352
>>64005379
>>64005385
>can't dispute anything
I thought as much from third worlders.

>>64005387
>universally hated
Yeah the M16 was.

>>64005392
have you even shot either gun?

The M16/AR15 is only good for killing children, which is why Americans and Israelis love them so much.

>>64005393
Yes. Trained with the A4 which is about as heavy as a M14 and used the M21 liberally in Afghanistan.

>>64005405
>no i'm just larping
thanks for the clarification

>>64005424
>seething
I expected as much.

>>64005306 (OP)
Yes you are absolutely correct, the M16 has been a disaster which our enemies are exploiting right now at this very moment. I have some very helpful images presented by the snake oil salesman Jim Schatz

>>64005451
We need something that has longer reach, more power. Something that will have the same weight as the M14 but more power then the dinky little 5.56 that is so harmless.

>>64005391
Says I can’t dispute anything. Doesn’t dispute the fact that he’s gay… yet I’m the brown one

>>64005451
but didnt the m16 shoot fine out to 800 yards with a good marksman? the majority of soldiers will never shoot past 500 regardless of the gun so whats even the point

>>64005451
>>64005460
>M16 is great
Funny how virtually every nation that adopted it (Taiwan/South Korea/UK) abandoned it. The M16 was so game changing that everyone adopted the AR18. The M16 was so great in fact that HK completely cucked it with the G36 and HK416. The M16 was so great that it's being replaced by the M7.

>>64005471
>likes big black metrosexual plastic rifle that you need to tranny 99% of it to be good
>doesn't like real American steel and hardwood that all you need is sling, mags, and ammo
FAGGOT

>>64005405
The cool thing about the internet is that you can say anything. Me personally, I always found the m21 a bit elementary. When I was in Afghanistan and Syria, I was in devgru btw, I would often make fun of the puny grunts carrying m21s. We (all of us in devgru) used to call it a woman’s rifle.

>>64005496
>ar15
>tranny
>new model is literally called the AXE(wound)
https://www.ssusa.org/content/new-smith-wesson-m-p-15-axe-rifles/
YOU CAN'T MAKE THIS SHIT UP

>>64005500
>devgru
>the dudes who literally requested and designed the Mk14
Bruh

>>64005509
Yeah in an attempt to make a shit rifle less shit you fuckin retard

>>64005405
>trust me bro

>>64005523
>less shit
>M16 is gre-
FUCK
>M16A1 is gre-
FUCK
>the M16A2 is gre-
FUCK
>the M4 is great
FUCK
When your rifle during testing has Colt engineers following the troops with spare parts and wouldn't allow troops to do maintenance on them you know you fucked up.

>>64005532
How far do you want to be embarrassed? Because I can provide proof for everything.

>>64005538
A1 and A2 are great though.

Shut up nigger. Go troll on /b/

>>64005543
lol

>>64005538
but the m16 and m4 is literally more reliable than the ak

>>64005538
also dont talk shit about the m14's reliability because if theres one thing it's fucking lacking its exactly that

>>64005306 (OP)
Curtis Lemay was the one who decided to adopt the M16, and Curtis Lemay has never done acting wrong ever.

>>64005552
>believes this
>done by Colt
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

>>64005558
this sounds like massive cope
>NOO STATISTICS AND SURVEYS ARE ONLY REAL WHEN THEY BENEFIT MY VIEWS
i bet you believe in the holocaust too

>>64005555
https://www.thearmorylife.com/m14-and-the-war-on-terror-one-veterans-experience/
>tldr
>The M14 in my experience is a very reliable weapon. It required little care to function properly in the dusty environment, unlike other weapons. Accuracy could be improved by shutting the gas valve off and manually cycling the bolt between rounds
The M110 had to be pulled from service for reliability issues while costing x3 more per unit.

>>64005570
“One veterans experience”
Just one?

>>64005566
>cope
>what is
>M4 dust trials
>M16 vs AUG Australian Defense Force trials
>Israeli Galil trials
>Israeli Tavor trials
Keep going.

>>64005387
The FAL preformed worse in trials then the M14 anon
>>64005306 (OP)
>chrome
Both colt and the army wanted chrome lining but it had n very been applied to a small caliber before and they would be unable to certify it on the timetable the DOD wanted so it would have been M14 or no new rifle

>>64005574
>literally ignores the fact that it had to be adopted at all
>ignores Veitnam
>ignores reality
Yep.

>>64005584
Not to mention they STILL didn't have enough rifles to issue M14s in mass during nam which would have lead to M1s being broken out again and that's just retarded

>>64005584
>FAL
And it choked so hard in the IDF service that they ditched it. Fun fact, they turned M14's into bullpup sniper rifles.
>the Garand/AK receiver gap
Odd how this was never an issue in every theater of warfare those rifles fought...

>>64005592
>not enough
>originally plan for 5 manufactures
>cut it down to 3
>then to one
>then take 70% of the machines to build M16's
I fucking wonder.

>>64005566
>Holocaust
Not really, but to say Jews weren't killed or died in captivity is flat out insane.

>>64005387
>reject the FAL after telling the designers to switch it to a more powerful cartridge
France and Canada also preferred the T65 cartridge, with Canada only agreeing to adopt .280 British if the US did.
>then move to the m16 which had a cartridge similar to what the FAL's designers originally had in mind
Bullshit. The .280 Brit was more in line with 7.62x39.
Which means a SCHV replacement would be issued and the FAL ditched anyway. Even the Brits eventually developed a 4.85mm round based on the 5.56x45 case because of the studies indicating that within typical engagement distances, and before body armor became common, small bullets that yawed could deal almost as much tissue damage as larger but slower bullets that icepicked in and out before yaw.

>should have never been adopted
This should have, instead

>>64005427
>no denial
Figures, consider yourself ignored

>>64005620
>.280 British
>hot 7.62x39mm
It's more a piss weak 7.62x51mm than a hot 7.62x39mm. The adoption of .280 would have been a disaster as the Russians learned that 7.62x39mm REALLY wasn't that good in a MG role and had to issue the SVD and PKM after they found out how badly Arabs fared in the resulting wars against Israel and the Indian Army armed with Lee Enfields absolutely MOGGED the shit out of PLA units armed with Type 56 rifles which caused the PLA to switch over the SKS (Type 56 carbine) in it's infantry.

>>64005648
I'm offering one last chance to back out.

>>64005584
>MUH TRIALZ
literally never met somebody who chose the m14 over the FAL

You're the same battle rifle retard from the sig m7 Hate thread aren't you?

>>64005673
Besides the US military?

>>64005681
yes the same military known for making great decisions like adapting the m1 thompson or using the BAR far after it became obsolete

>>64005674
Actually no.

>>64005690
>Thompson
>bad
Everyone who used them loved them.
>BAR
>obsolete
>1940's-1950's
No. Considering the Bren was a crew served weapon and was awkward as shit to use there was a reason the FN MAG used the BAR as a base.

>>64005460
>LWRC Six8 firing 90gr Speer Gold Dots out to 900m
Who the fuck comes up with this shit?
>>64005509
>the dudes who literally requested and designed the Mk14
Is that why the program was an immense retardation from beginning to end, from the armorers in the field not being notified that disassembling the Sage stock made the accuracy go to shit as everything had to be torqued to spec at the factory, to the Leupold scope being BDC'd for match ammo that was no longer in service instead of current issue M118LR?

>>64005781
>disassemble
Every fucking M14 manual ever says not to disassemble the rifle unless you put 1000 rounds or more through it. All you need to do is undo the plug and run a cleaning rod through the barrel. Unlike a M110 that needs surgical levels of cleaning and a hot line to Knights to get it past 3 mags without it fucking dying.

>>64005673
>>64005690
I love when retards assume that the 1950s were totally the same as today. The fal was brand new, and did not work worth a blue fuck in the sand or the cold. Do you know why they had to add those giant sandcutters on later fal models? Because the guns simply did not run without them, among other problems.
In the late 1950s there were still heated debates between even issuing a weapon that used disposable magazines, let alone an unproven and unreliable belgian gun in an abysmal caliber.

you are not smarter than the men who made these decisions. you are an internet retard who hasn't even read first hand accounts of what happened and why.

>>64005827
I doubt the manual states armorers cannot do armorer level tasks on regular ass M14s when the guns get shipped to the field.
If you were talking about the M21s yeah you don't disturb the bedding until it has to be refurbished. But the Mk14 program was a retread of the M21 program and weirdly enough fell into the same pitfalls.

>>64005876
>you are not smarter than the men who made these decisions
objectively untrue, i refuse to be outshined by a bunch of boomers

>>64005888
are you retarded? the guys running the show in the 50s were all ww2 veterans born at the turn of the century. the boomers were in fucking diapers when the ar15 was going through its original trials

>>64005893
>are you retarded? the guys running the show in the 50s were all ww2 veterans born at the turn of the century. the boomers were in fucking diapers when the ar15 was going through its original trials

>>64005306 (OP)
What the fuck kind of mental disorder do you have, OP?

>>64005570
>>64005587
sorry, so knights personal abortion project, the ar10/m110, is now the same as the m4 carbine? Do you even know why the m4 had problems in early gwot, compared to the completely ones the m16 had in vietnam? this entire line of argument makes no sense
>>64005899
what is this even supposed to mean you millenial oldtroon faggot?

>>64005306 (OP)
Fuck ya
mudda

>64005665
You clearly haven't used yours. The strongest shit takes come from the biggest asses

>>64005693
I doubt it, you have the same dumb takes as him
Battle rifle niggers HATE this one weird fact

>>64005306 (OP)
>fantastic service rifle
>M14
Pick one, and only one.
>>64005538
Because the troops were intentionally fucking them up to get out of testing. Stoner has stories about this.
>>64005570
I'm sure that Springfield Armory was looking for an accurate and unbiased assessment for their article.
>they even got their man to shill wooden stocks
>wooden stocks were totally turning up all the time in the early 2000's
>>64005584
>FAL preformed worse in trials then the M14
In US trials that totally weren't rigged, yes. The rest of the free world adopted the FAL instead out of spite or something, I don't know.>>64005876
>m1903 had problems, were eventually corrected
>m1 had problems, were mostly eventually corrected
>fal had problems, were eventually corrected
>m14 had problems, were sorta eventually corrected
>m16 had problems, were eventually corrected
It's almost like new rifles have problems when first introduced that eventually get fixed.

>>64006265
Go watch Ivan's video on the M14 and the trials. The FAL categorically had more breakages and failures then the 14's prototype did.

>>64005599
They lacked the manufactures because they didn't have the fucking money and the rifle kept having issues in manufacturing because despite Springfield supposed to be a purely technically advisory facility they always ended up trying to make up the shortfall.

>>64005306 (OP)
The M14 was a massive piece of shit, fuck off.

>>64005306 (OP)
M14 turned out to be a lemon which had to be replaced asap and m16 was the only modern alternative at the time. Turned out to be lemon as well, not surprisingly considering a totally out-of-character hasty introduction.
The problem was with sticking with the 7.62 caliber in the first place as this thing was never supposed to perform well in automatic rifles - it was the legacy of bolt - and semi-auto - weapons. 7.62 is too big, 5.56 is too small, no rifle design will overcome those issues and the harder they try the weirdest construction they make.

>>64005393
Yep, own both and shot both, the M14 was absolutely not hated, in fact many vets loved and still love the M14s, and you're a disingenuous faggot for spreading your opinion as fact

>>64006739
And yet it outlived the M14 as a service rifle, and saw service basically everywhere that wasn't the US or the USSR. Must've been a real piece of shit.

>>64006851
It was cheap and easy to produce because FN was handing out tooling like it was candy. I love the FAL but it was by no means a great rifle for a long time, just easy to mass produce

>>64007016
>cheap and easy to produce
LMAO

if the american mic wasn't as retarded as it is we'd never have gotten the pentagon wars so shut your fucking mouth and have some appreciation

I never should have listened to that anon and posted in an NGSW thread. There's going to be so much fucking trolling about this now.

>>64005658
>armed with Type 56 rifles which caused the PLA to switch over the SKS (Type 56 carbine) in it's infantry
what

>>64005306 (OP)
God tier bait, ARtrannies on suicide watch

>>64005658
I like the trials between .280 and 7.62x51. They've managed to establish that 7.62 had more power (kek)

>>64006851
>And yet it outlived the M14 as a service rifle
are you not aware that in the early 60s, the DOD was getting drawn into a hot war in vietnam with no way to produce or procure rifles for the infantry? They had three options.
>rushing ar15 into service without a chromed chamber due to the technology not yet existed to chrome a .22 caliber bore, but otherwise was clearly a technologically advanced design
>retooling for the antiquted m14 (In a shit caliber they didnt want)
>Adopting the fal, a gun which had at the time been adopted by nobody, and didnt work reliably in adverse conditions (in a shit caliber they didnt want)

>>64005306 (OP)
C- bait

>>64009738
The Chinese equipped their soldiers originally with the Type 56 (AK47) but during the India-Chinese border crisis they suffered heavy casualties from Lee Enfield armed Indian troops, and the only soldiers who were capable of returning effective fire were the ones armed with the Type 56 carbine (SKS).
https://youtu.be/onOhbiCL1H4?si=tbvF-QbFtkhzFxds
This channel is top tier.

>>64006766
>>64006800
>M14
>loved by soldiers that used it
>M16
>fucking hated by soldiers that used it
All you have is "nuhuh because I say so!" Verses ACTUAL FUCKING VETERANS who used them in. ACTUAL FUCKING COMBAT. The upcoming civil war is going to wipe out ARetards because they're going to found with jammed rifles or blown the fuck away by 6.8mm from their effective range.

>>64006851
>And yet it outlived the M14 as a service rifle
So did the Krag. The M14 was a piece of shit, no argument there, but the FAL wasn't exactly immaculate. It was heavy, marginally accurate, the HBARs and even the FA capability were largely worthless and it had a well-earned reputation for malfunctions.

>>64010977
>rushing ar15 into service without a chromed chamber due to the technology not yet existed to chrome a .22 caliber bore
The chromed chamber wasn't all that relevant, really. The first AR-15s field tested in Vietnam didn't have chromed chambers but they ran like sewing machines anyway because the ammo provided was hand-picked lots of the ammo that the AR-15 was literally designed for - .223 Rem loaded with IMR 4475 and a Sierra-type bullet. The whole initial adoption was a fucked up bum rush but if I have to point a finger I point it at Olin; the only fucking difference between WC846 - the shitty, gunky powder of urban legend - and the WC844 which is still being used TO THIS DAY is the amount of calcium carbonate.

>>64011218
>a rifle so bad that it can only run on handmade ammunition
>it's purpose is to suppress the enemy through automatic fire
AR faggot doublethink is really something else.
>AR15's are reliable!
>if you clean them frequently
>if you use special ammo for it
>if you don't fire a high volume of ammunition
>if you don't suppress it
>if you don't get it cold
>if you don't get it dusty
>if you don't go near bees
>if you use special lubricant
>if you use the right amount of lubricant

>>64010977
>FAL
>1960's
>adopted by nobody
Were you dropped on your head?

>>64005306 (OP)
5.56 is just better than 7.62
simple as

>>64010977
M14 production ended in 1964, anon. I'm not sure what you're talking about. I don't think that you're sure what you're talking about either.

>>64005306 (OP)
I was unfortunate enough to be issued a m39emr for part of a tour. The second I was able I switched. The only good part of having the m39 was having a good s&b optic. Even still i was usually looking through a soflam. It jammed often due to sand egress and was front heavy as fuck. It hardly more accurate than a m16a4 and you could send 3 rounds from the m16 in the time it took to fire one and reset if the m39 didnt malfunction.

>>64011262
You really shouldn't be allowed to post here without proof of age, gun ownership and American citizenship.

>>64006851
Or maybe a lot of the FAL users that kept them are just broke as fuck and can't afford to buy a replacement. Let's see the list of current FAL users
>Ireland
>Brazil
>South Africa
Do any of these countries strike you as rich with a well funded military?

I don't like the M16 because that and the M4 have been disastrous for gun aesthetics

>>64005306 (OP)
So the weight of the M14 wasn't an issue. Recoil was. Reducing the weight of the M14 made the recoil issue worse with the weapon being entirely uncontrollable when fired fully automatic.

The ammunition issue was just a production one. In time, the 5.56 would become just as cheap as the 7.62. The powder was originally the same powder used in the M14 but got switched out last minute. (IMR 4475). Most of the reliability issues came down to nobody telling Stoner about the new powder until it was in the field and soldiers were being told the rifle didn't need to clean their rifles.

>XM198
The Duplex Bullet, pic related. It didn't solve the recoil issue, didn't solve the ammo efficiency issue, Definitely didn't solve the rate of fire issue, and was generally just a waste of time.

And with the XM198 being a bust the M14 was just being over run by AK-47s laying down more accurate suppressive fire as soon as they were in range.

>>64011010
The M16 jams less than the AK-47 so long as you clean it.

The M14 was actually found to be inferior to the M1 Garand in every way that mattered.

>>64011262
>>if you clean them frequently
obvious bait throughout but I dont clean my PSA M4 clone for about every 1k rounds and no issues. I usually punch the barrel twice with a bore snake, a drop or two or lube in the bolt and call it a day. Conversely, I thoroughly clean all my surp regardless of the shot count

>>64011262
>if you use special ammo for it
You mean non-shit ammo that would jam any gun you used it with
>if you don't fire a high volume of ammunition
Non-issue
>if you don't suppress it
Where did this come from?
>if you don't get it cold
You mean "Iced Over". The safety switch is shorter than the AK-47's but that only matters if the controls are covered in solid ice
>if you don't get it dusty
Actually handles dust better than the AKM
>if you don't go near bees
Firearms are universally useless against bees. It's a Rule of Nature.
>if you use special lubricant
Where is this coming from?
>if you use the right amount of lubricant
Did you submerge your AR in motor oil again?

The U.S. Army M16A1 is considered by many to be the worst assault rifle ever invented. Its overcomplicated mechanism is both difficult to clean and prone to jamming. Adjusting the sight, something that must be done every time a target shifts its range, requires the use of a nail, ballpoint pen, or similar device. What if you didn’t have one, or lost it as several dozen zombies shambled steadily toward you? The delicate plastic stock of the M16A1 obviates bayonet use, and by attempting to use it as such you would risk shattering the hollow, spring-loaded stock. This is a critical flaw. If you were confronted by multiple ghouls and your A1 jammed, you would be unable to use it as a last-ditch hand-to-hand weapon. In the 1960s, the M16 (originally the AR-15) was designed for Air Force base security. For political reasons typical of the military-industrial complex (you buy my weapon, you get my vote and my campaign contribution), it was adopted as the principal infantry weapon for the U.S. Army. So poor was its early battle record that during the Vietnam War, communist guerrillas refused to take them from dead Americans. The newer M16A2, although somewhat of an improvement, is still regarded as a second-class weapon. If given the choice, emulate the Vietcong and ignore the M16 entirely.

>>64012277
Fucking wrong pic. Again.

>>64012320
>What if you didn’t have one, or lost it as several dozen zombies shambled steadily toward you?
...and we can stop reading here.

>>64012320
>MAX YOU SUCK AND YOUR DAD IS COOLER

>>64005386
>Wrong. In 1944 Chrome lineing was required by all M1's.
Wrong again. You should probably stop lying like a faggot now.

>>64013236
>>64005386
Looks like we've got a he said/she said situations. We're not going to get anywhere until y'all break out the citations.

jesus christ this thread is retarded
we wuz in the jungle in vietnam. Volume of fire became profoundly important because you couldn't see fucking 15 feet in front of you, so all you could do was let off 100 rounds into the bushes that were talking and hoped you hit something. Some of those MAC-V SOG guys would carry upwards of 500 to 700 rounds of 5.56 on them, like 20 mags just thrown in a sack. Those guys far preferred the 5.56 guns to the M-14s, and were using them ahead of everyone else. They also kind of predicted the whole M4 situation, by preferring the short CAR-15s. The M-14 was just the wrong gun for that war

>>64012298
Ak action does better in extreme cold + wet scenarios but outside of that your point stands

>>64011010
you're a massive larping retard
soldiers UNIVERSALLY preferred the m16 over the m14 shitstain, and I'm not even an ar guy but I still know this

>>64013300
>like 20 mags just thrown in a sack
please tell me theres images of soldiers doing this

>>64013318
Yeah, having the dust cover double as a safety means you've got a lot of leverage for breaking through solid ice.

somehow the worst thread I have seen in a long time...

>>64013350
NTA but there was a 15% minority that actually preferred the M14. Understandable if you're a sniper or marksman.

>>64013384
Holy drip

>>64005391

If you point out MIC corruption or shit on the USA military (rightfully so) you trigger the shills here.

But you are correct, they could have done the same thing that the Japanese did (and other European countries as well) where they could have just downloaded 7.62 NATO to 7.62x39mm ballistics and then switched to a new round/platform after the war. Any deficiencies with the M14 platform could have been augmented with M2/M3 carbines + various 45/9mm SMGs. Hell, the AR10 was already being used by other countries and could have just been adopted in place of the M14 instead of the M16.

Adopting a new cartridge (and platform) during a major war is retarded but that is the hubris of the USA, thinking they are somehow better than Nazi Germany and the many other failed empires they succeeded.

>>64013415
oh yes

>>64005599
Because the other manufacturers were having serious issues with their rifles, like accuracy, heat treating, and general reliability and parts failures
>>64005673
Well that’s because the FAL got adopted by a fuckton of countries and had its kinks worked out, as well as being a fairly modern design for the time and much easier to operate and clean
>>64006851
See above, at the time of the m14s adoption, the FAL was also brand new and FN hadn’t yet worked out the kinks that it had, which led to the impression that the m14 was better

>>64005387
>also we'd have gotten curbstomped even harder in vietnam if we kept using the m14 because its such a piece of shit

Small arms are literally irrelevant in any modern conflict. The results would have been identical in Vietnam if the USA was still using the M1 Garand instead of the M16 because US doctrine and strategy was shit and Vietnamese were better warriors than the USA boomers were.

>Inb4 assblasted Americans start posting MUH KILL COUNT, you lost the war retards

You retards are supposed to be the most internet savvy people around and you get caught out by the most low effort ragebait. I fucking knew this site was mostly jeets

>>64005592
Why didn't they just copy the BM59?

>>64012320
NOOOOO MAX GET OUT

>>64013438
America won the war, just look at the results after the war.
America remains the greatest country in the world while Vietnam is a shithole.

>>64013438
Okay enough with the meme regurgitation anon. Yes small arms alone don’t win wars but having double the rounds and controllable full auto in a lighter package is a huge advantage for any side and will win firefights. Like yes they don’t just give you some instant victory or anything but they have very tangible benefits that matter too

>>64005379
Great retort

>>64012100
Of course, because that's relevant when we're talking about who adopted what back in the late fifties. Go ahead and post the list of countries that adopted the FAL when the M14 was an option, you disingenuous faggot. I'll wait.

>>64013350
>they preferred it
>have an congressional review over the letters of GI's in Veitnam saying how shit the M16 was
The M16 had a 14% confidence rating in 1966 vs the M14's 96% confidence rating.

Cope and seethe.

>>64013236
>M1 barrel material
>chrome moly mil-spec #6535448
You need your teeth knocked out with a fucking chisel.

>>64013300
>rate of fire
>M14 ROF
>750 rpm
Uhhhhhh
>reeeee
Fire from the fucking hip, AS THE FUCKING MANUAL INSTRUCTS.

>>64014546
>chrome moly
Chrome moly is a type of steel you fucking retard, and chrome lining is a process entirely separate from it.

>>64014528
>M16 had a 14% confidence rating in 1966 vs the M14's 96% confidence rating

During the initial issuance of the original M16 with no clean kits, improper training, wrong type of propellant in ammo, and non-chrome lined barrels. The issues that were made possible by the deliberate sabotage of the program by the Dept. of the Army. The following documents in the subsequent years of '67 and '68 prove this and both are freely available on the internet
>10-19-67: Report of the Special Subcommittee on the M-16 Rifle Program of the Committee on Armed Services House of Representatives
>6-1-68: Report of the M16 Rifle Review Panel

>>64014923
>have you had stoppages while firing
>missing
Hmmmmmmmmmmm

>>64014605
>chrome moly
>added to steel to prevent corrosion
>often on the exterior layers of said steel
Dumbass.

>>64014923
>nO tHe dOD wAS bAD
Funny how this never happened before, almost as if it's a fundamental flaw in the weapon!

>>64015016
I can't imagine having internet access and still being too much of a retard to use it properly.
>Chromium molybdenum steel – frequently shortened to chrome moly – is a kind of low alloy steel used in a number of applications and industries. As the name suggests, the two key alloying elements are molybdenum (Mo) and chromium (Cr). These alloys are normally sorted into one main group, with names such as chrome croalloy, chromalloy, moly and CrMo often used. Industries where the alloy is common include construction, energy, oil and gas, and automotive.
>Each chrome lined Criterion barrel is hand lapped and held to the same finish and uniformity requirements as our match grade stainless steel barrels. This chrome lining process produces a barrel that significantly increases durability through the more consistent and uniform application of the chrome lining while simultaneously offering national record-setting performance.
Again. Chrome moly is the steel type the barrel is made of, chrome lining is a process. I can't make it simpler to understand than this, if you're still too retarded to get it I really can't help you.

>>64015069
>told you that chrome moly is LAYERD on the steel
>REEEEEEEE
You should be hanged.

>>64011001
He's a faggot PLA simp. You don't have to suck the Chicom's dicks to appreciate the SKS.

>>64015122
I'd make fun of you for being incapable of reading or using a search engine but damn dude, you just really don't wanna admit you were wrong about something. All this seething when you could just say you got two things mixed up. Do you even own an M1, let alone one with a GI barrel? I'm gonna assume not because you literally could just look in the barrel and see it's not chrome lined. Here, I actually did find a way to make it even simpler for you.
https://criterionbarrels.com/products/vintage-service/m1-garand/m1-garand-gi-contour-barrel-2/?v=0b3b97fa6688
>Material: 4140/50
>Finish: Phosphate
You can google that steel type, it's chrome moly steel. And then we have another barrel
https://criterionbarrels.com/products/vintage-service/m1-garand/m1-garand-30-06-barrel-chrome-lined/?v=0b3b97fa6688
>Material: 4140/50
>Finish: Chrome lined, Phosphate
Simple enough for you? Or are you gonna keep being stubborn and wrong?

Incredibly low effort shitpost. I wrote up a reply but deleted it because I just don't care. There's like 400 youtube videos and books written about this that prove OP is gay

>>64013423
Calling Vietnam a "major war" for the US is kinda stretching the definition. It was a glorified "police action", much like all of the bullshit War on Terror stuff we did in the 00s.

>>64015010
look at the bottom you illiterate retard

>>64015142
>outright criticizes PLA policy and the government
>he's a shill!
Really.

>>64015184
All the videos I've seen feom him were nothing but praise for the PLA. Please link some where he shits on them, I'm genuinely curious.

>>64015176
vietnam and korea were different, they were defensive wars despite how cruel we might've seemed, and we failed miserably in vietnam (a lot of retards think just going in and killing was the goal so they'll say "akshually we basically won anyways" but that was never the point)
we had far more obligation to defend vietnam than any of these microconflicts, because back in vietnam atleast wars were still started over political reasons, now its about whatever the people with money want

>>64015178
>that answer
>none, 17% >few 70% >many 10% no answer 3%
Reading is hard isn't it?

>>64015197
We had no obligation to defend Vietnam, we only did so because of the domino theory and the French dragging us into their mess (as usual).

>>64015192
The Type 63 video, the Cultural Revolution video, the Type 79 SMG....

>>64015154
>youtube
>vs actual soldiers
Zoomer.

>>64015206
and we had even less obligation to go die for pissrael

>>64015221
I agree.

>>64015221
>die for pissreal
>US soldiers lost:0
>Arab soldiers lost for Palestinians
>hundreds of thousands
They still can't say when the US has ever fought in Gaza or the West Bank.

>>64015220
>even jewtube is smarter than you.
Big oof

>itt
>mixed race future school shooters defend a weapon only good for killing children
Jej

>>64015252
>listening to tidepod eaters vs actual witnesses to events
This is why America is fucked.

>>64005306 (OP)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mby4hOq-DpI

Good rage bait, except Ivan followed suit for good reason. Ordinance nepotist fudds delayed American small arms development by decades. Saboteurs and spies couldn't have done better, especially with forcing non-spec stockpile powder they knew would foul them unduly.

>>64013438
>Inb4 assblasted Americans start posting MUH KILL COUNT, you lost the war retards
so the US losing somehow magically evaporates the fact that the vietnamese got bodied in almost every fight???
>Vietnamese were better warriors than the USA boomers were.
pure delusion like >>64013465

>>64013452
Insane that the Italians managed, in a post-war state, to make a better rifle and faster.

All this talk of long range deficiency sounds like the advent of smokeless powder and the 2000 meter sights on rifles. Again, the Italians figured it out and ended up putting fixed sights on their rifles. How much combat experience of "doesn't shoot far enough" is just a soldier who's accuracy qualification is a target the size of a barn.

>>64005306 (OP)
Literally everybody hated the M14. Still, it was kept in use a full 60 years after it was replaced as a DMR despite it being a horrendously heavy and outdated pile of shit. The Scar shit all over the M14

>>64005505
frog faggot seething about ar15s
what swith the sudden influx of bots/brown goyims

>>64005306 (OP)
Retard: The Post

>>64005306 (OP)
Oh no! They adopted the rifle which eventually evolved into the most successful small arm in world history and has now been adopted by nearly every relevant power on the planet! How could theyyyyyy

>>64005633

I can only imagine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6GIG1PX2RXs

>>64005306 (OP)
Fuck ya
mudda

>>64005387
My grandfather loved his M14, but still thought the M16 was better at killing. He just grew up with a M1 Garand and preferred .308’s performance when shooting through brush.

>>64005633
it was a rickety POS

>>64005306 (OP)
>absolute disaster as the Rounds Per Causality between the M14 (3000) and the M16 (120,000)
That has everything to do with terrain and nothing to do with calibre, when people are getting ambushed in thick jungle they are going to mag dump.

>>64005633
>jams

>>64019402
Was the M14 being used in a different country or something?