Thread 64009105

An external extractor is the superior design approach for all pistols, including 1911s, and I'm sick of anyone pretending they aren't. The internal extractor is the #1 weakness of the 1911 design and is by far the most common source of reliability issues across manufacturers. It is universally the first thing that needs to be checked when troubleshooting a 1911 that isn't cycling reliably. This isn't true of almost any other firearm, besides maybe rimfires where the extractor has a particularly challenging job to do. Internal extractors should be relegated to reproductions and niche collectors pieces.

Why haven't external extractors become the standard? Plenty of companies have introduced external extractors, only to either discontinue them or fail to roll it out across their entire lineup.

Is it really just down to boomer retardation, gun owner self loathing, and brandfagging? Is it some form of near-religious ignorance and adherence to 'tradition'? Is it just pure ignorance?

>>64009105 (OP)
Firearms designers and manufacturers are smarter than you (which probably isn't saying much), so there is most definitely a reason other than ignorance.

>>64009105 (OP)
Because people buy a 1911 to get a 1911.
>b-but this is better!
Ok? And? A modern feed angle is better and a trigger that is drop safe is better. Those also aren't 1911 and I don't want them.
>hmm yes this is my classic car, why of course it has a LS and a modern transmission and a touch screen and power windows, why would I want to drive an old car?

The problem is you don't want a 1911 but want the clout of a 1911 for some retarded reason.

>>64009129
>they MUST have a good reason, they design products!!!

>>64009105 (OP)
>Why haven't external extractors become the standard?
Because of all the caterwauling from gatekeepers when Smith put an external on their 1911

>>64009235
Makes perfect sense. That ugly thing isn't a 1911.

>>64009105 (OP)
Some companies do, but this eventually becomes a 1911 of Theseus type of situation. IMO Wilson does it right with the SFX, which also removes the stupid grip safety and switches calibers to 9mm, plus slims the gun down by using a hollow aluminum frame in place of grip panels. Great gun... but is it still a 1911? I'd say no.

>>64009129
>boomer retardation
>>64009152
>self loathing

I'm not a 'purist'. I don't care whether it achieves spiritual pureness as a 1911. There is no 'clout' associated with any firearm, that's retarded. Arguing about what is or isn't a 1911, or 2011, etc is unthinkably moronic semantics. What I do like is the ergonomics, the manual of arms, and the actual firing characteristics of the 1911 that's down to its lockwork and frame geometry.

An external extractor does not affect these characteristics in any way.

>>64009235
Make it stainless like the rest of the slide and boomer cataracts wont see it

>>64009464
that's fine enjoy your sigger trash non-1911 owner lmao

>>64009484
Seems like that solves the issue for the most part. Was never a fan of the S&W fish scales either but that's entirely subjective.

>>64009505
Does having an undercut trigger guard, extended beavertail, double dovetail sights, front serrations, or an ambi safety also make something 'not a 1911'?

>>64009519
No.

>>64009525
Why?

>>64009105 (OP)
What an inane thing to get upset over.
You seem like an overly emotional fag, OP.

>>64009105 (OP)
I'm going down to my LGS and will memorize at least 5 serial numbers of Sig 1911s with external extractors, then plan out a few months worth of Customer Service emails complaining that mine won't extract with any ammo.

>>64009553
During a near-death experience in rural Tajikistan, Ahura Mazda revealed the ultimate truth to me. The 1911 was included and played a prominent role in how mankind is to live a righteous life, the ideal 1911 as specified by the Lord of Wisdom is the Dan Wesson Specialist in .45 ACP specifically.

>>64009563
Do you lack the capacity to answer the question?
>>64009567
Why?

>>64009572
Huh, well I have a Specialist and I think it would be better if it had an external extractor.

>>64009573
>Do you lack the capacity to answer the question?
I don't care either way, because I'm not a fag.
If I had to guess, I'd say it's just some kind of institutional momentum or it's just a known quantity for designers and it's easier to implement in an new design.
Did you bother searching for an answer before making a thread, or are you just lazy?

>>64009580
Man is often blinded by hubris

>>64009633
You felt really wise typing that out and posting it, didn't you?

>>64009638
True wisdom is knowing you know nothing.

>>64009641
I know I banged your momma.
On a separate note, Dan Wesson probably has a good reason for only doing internal extractors on his 1911s.

>>64009484
It's literally a spring Anon. You dont make springs out of stainless.

>>64009666
>Dan Wesson
You expose your ignorance further. "Dan Wesson" hasn't had anything to do with the company in years. It's just a brand name now. Their latest gun, the DWX, which is essentially a mashup of a 1911 and a CZ, does in fact use an external extractor. So obviously they do understand the benefit.
>>64009667
Just stop posting if you know nothing. Internal extractors are springs, external extractors are not. They pivot, and use a separate spring. This is fundamental to why they are a superior design.

>>64009760
Even if it was a spring, i clearly meant to just have it be the same color so boomers wont notice and complain since theyre half blind

>>64009767
I know what you meant anon, it made perfect sense to me. Springs can be silver too, we're just dealing with an incredibly fragile and retarded anon.

>>64009760
HAD, anon. The company still hasn't changed their 1911 design philosophy, as far as I can tell (and we are talking about 19ss after all).
You're so emotional about unimportant things! And your mom still calls me each weekend.

>>64009760
>They pivot, and use a separate spring. This is fundamental to why they are a superior design.
Anon, all extractors have a spring temper because they have to flex to get over the recessed rim of the cartridge. Even if its just a little bit. And anything with a spring temper is by definition a spring. Look at stainless guns with external extractors, you'll find they aren't stainless, because they are springs.
>picrel
Oh look at that fagot, the extractor isn't stainless.
>Just stop posting if you know nothing.
speak for yourself.

>>64009105 (OP)
>having an extractor at all
overbuilt bullshit

>>64009870
>The company still hasn't changed their 1911 design philosophy
Probably because they know how many sub-human IQ level buyers like you there are out there that would throw a hormonal fit over it.

>>64010081
I'm not the guy bitching about a half-inch long piece of metal. Considering that they're one of the better 1911 guys out there and you're some dork I bet you're wrong.
Tell your mom to stop calling me on the Lord's day. Bring that bitch to church,

>>64010098
>I'm not the guy bitching
Actually, you are. More than anyone else in fact.

>>64010132
>No u
You made a whole-ass thread, nigguh?

>>64009105 (OP)
Nobody fucking cares you stupid autist

>>64010162
This is a weapons board. Why does a discussion about firearms upset you so much? You clearly felt compelled to post. The topic was so dear to you that you were unable to resist typing out this seething reply, solving the captcha, and bumping this thread. Make it make sense.

Also, answer the question. Why isn't it the standard?

Even Kimber admitted the internal extractor was the biggest reliability issue with their guns, and both their latest models use an external extractor.

Is the industry finally willing to leave the regressive ignoramuses behind behind?

>>64010215
I reckon the reason it isn't the standard with 1911's is because most 1911 buyers are purists. And complain about changes to the platform. 1911s are funny cause if you want a modern gun you probably aren't looking to buy a 1911. And if you want a 1911 you probably want a pure 1911. 2011s are popular though. So you can get away from that but I guess it needs to make a reason to exist.

>>64009630
You are definitely a fag. And a snarky bitch who cannot defend their postition.

>>64009667
You don't know shit and need to shut the fuck up.

>>64010472
I don't have a point to defend, and again the proof that I'm not gay is in the adult videos I made with your mom.

>>64009105 (OP)
Tisas unironically makes the best 1911

>>64010534
Many are saying this (for the price point).

>>64009235
love my E-Series

>>64010677
Im extremely limited by what guns i can buy but an e series is on the list. Is it worth it? I know my options are limited in my state but its still a hefty amount for a handgun.

>>64009667
>I’ll just post shit without taking 10 seconds to double check what I’m pulling out of my ass
You can make a spring out of just about anything, Anon. Like a spring made out of brittle rock or something would be a really shitty spring, but it would have some springiness before failure. Lets say stainless steel was just a mediocre spring material even though it’s not, well then you just design the system so that the spring doesn’t get over/under compressed/pulled/rotated and Bam! You have a perfectly serviceable spring made out of a material you need to use for reasons.

>>64011710
You'll always get someone finding an exception no matter how irrelevant. Nobody does this. Beretta and CZ used to but stopped because it doesn't work in practice. Sig doesn't put it in their top end stainless P226 either.

>>64010162
>go on website full of autists
>go to the weapons board
>see a thread that is autistically arguing over some minute difference between weapons
>enter thread
>make a post about how this autistic weapon argument is an argument that “nobody” i.e. normies cares about
Yes. And?

>>64009105 (OP)
>Why haven't external extractors become the standard?
Uh...they have.

Anyway it barely matters. Some slides definitely look better with an internal extractor.

>>64011874
>three gun companies stopped using stainless steel springs, therefore it’s a bad idea
Even if this is true there are a number of reasons why a company would do that such as cutting costs, supply issues (especially during/post china virus), a combination of those two, or determining that a spring inside of a grip or under a barrel is most likely oiled or greased and protected from the elements so it doesn’t need to be stainless.
I find the last one most likely. If a spring is exposed to the outside of a gun and likely not oiled, like the Glock trigger safety spring or something then maybe it should be stainless, double so because people touch very near it and their sweat would get wicked into the gap between the trigger and safety bar where the spring is. But something like a detent spring that is in a little hole that will get filled with oil either purposefully during installation or accidentally when the gun is cleaned? No reason for that to be stainless. As far as more important springs in a gun goes, I don’t think something like a recoil spring needs to be stainless. I live in a very humid area, but the only spots I see corrosion on guns (excepting those left in a barn for decades, shot with corrosive ammo, or something else outside of normal use) is on the frame and slide that are exposed so it’s hard and inconvenient to keep a layer of oil on it and people grab those parts which introduces corrosive minerals and moisture from their sweat.

>moving the goal posts
The post I replied to stated “you dont [sic] make springs out of stainless.” That is simply an incorrect statement. The assertion that stainless springs are just a bad idea for use in guns is completely different and likely depends on the function of the spring and its environment. It could also just be an opinion or preference that may or may not be well founded.

>>64011964
>theorycrafting
Anon just show me a stainless external extractor. I gave you two examples where they stopped doing it.
>moving the goalposts
This is reddit tier uhh akkkshully bullshit. You know what I said and you know the discussion is about extractors. I wasn't saying stainless springs dont exist period. But you moved the goal posts thinking it was a gotcha. I dont care about a screenshot you pulled from some steel supplier's website with no context. Show me a stainless steel external extractor Anon. I'll give you another one that used to do it, Smith on their 3rd gens. They don't do it anymore.

>>64012011
I'll do even better. Here's a stainless steel INTERNAL extractor, which as we've established actually functions as a spring as part of its design.

Manufactured by Wilson Combat, long recognized as a leader in performance 1911s, and sold by the Ben Stoeger Pro Shop, a leading champion competitive shooter.

>>64009129
>appeal to authority
boring

Series 80 and 90 are better than 70 idgaf

>>64009105 (OP)
>relying on fragile internal/external pot extractors to eject your spent cases
>*JAM's*
>*DIE*
WheelGunChad's keep on winning.

>>64014171
>gets a speck of gunpowder on the ejector rod

>>64011874
You are still wrong. Stainless is a bitch to work because it is resilient and has memory. This isn't even a coil spring, it's a simple bar, like a diving platform.
The main reason is cost and that it is an expected wear item anyways.

>>64011042
I haven't had a single problem with it. Paid $1,400 for it, a holster, and a few hundred rounds of .45. Super smooth slide and an amazing trigger. Easily my favorite handgun I own. My only gripes are I'm bad with reloading so I need to buy one of the wilson combat flared magwells, and I feel like when I bought it the barrel and bushing were flush, but after the first time shooting and reassembling it, it no longer was. I might just be retarded about it but both are minor gripes. The checkering on the slide and grips are both super nice, super soft grip safety that doesn't press my hand at all, and a nice tactile safety without being inconvenient/hard to press. Buy one.