Thread 64010646

Why haven't the Russians and Ukrainians been using the "Terminator" T-72 tank variant, or have they and they all got destroyed?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMPT_Terminator

>>64010646 (OP)
nigerian

>>64010646 (OP)
>>64010662
>>64010667
Drone. Those are already outdated. Like French heavy tanks in WW2.

>BMPT
Someone post the footage of the BMPT firing and you can see how much the barrel flexes while firing.

>>64010723
The barrel wobbles and the turret also traverses, hitting something is impossible.

>>64010646 (OP)
Russians couldn't into stabilization >>64010744
Plants responsible for these refits are more busy trying to make T-72s run at all.

>>64010744
but comrade, more barrel wobble mean more spread for suppression of infantry, дa? perfect system

>>64010723
>>64010744
>>64011379
>>64011383
For context, the Russian 30mm autocannon wobbles so much that their helicopters can actually shoot holes in themselves unless there is a big steel block to impede barrel movement.
There's WW2 autocannons that would outperform it.

>Why doesnt the Imperium Or CSM use terminator power armor.
Lost technology

>>64010744
bootiful

Is the lack of recoil absorption an inherent problem with lightweight turrets and mounts?

Because they made like 20, and the rest of the funds got turned into yachts. Then they tried to use them with much chest thumping and it turns out they die to atgms and drones like any other t-72 variant, and they're shit for anything but indiscriminantly spraying commie blocks with 30mm at close range.

but the russians DID deploy the BMP-T already
https://files.catbox.moe/ia2rwt.mp4

>>64011553
In the case of the BMPT it has a list of issues
1: Lightweight aircraft-grade barrel that is bendy as a noodle
2: muzzle brakes interfere with each other so more wobble, making them diagonal would've fixed this with basically no cost BTW
3: fuckhuge rate of fire for no reason, there's reasons why every other 30mm only fires like 150-300 RPM instead of fucking 600-800
4: Gas operated instead of being a chaingun, so instead of functionally zero reciprocating mass, this fucker is throwing a shitload of mass back and forth

>>64010744
>>64011383
>>64011392
Also pay note: only 1 barrel shoots at a time.
Functionally this isn't even a dualie.

>>64011653
>The cannon when mounted in other vehicles is dual-feed
>For some stupid fucking reason they made it single-feed for the BMPT so you need 2x the guns???
WHY

>>64011495
2.0 minute of oblast

>>64010646 (OP)
Because it's an absolute steaming pile of shit. Neat idea executed Russianly. Would have been SIGNIFICANTLY better off with one gun that is reinforced to prevent that god awful barrel wobble and make sure recoil doesn't take the whole thing completely off target after the first or second shot.

You would legitimately be better off just with a Tunguska that has had it's radar removed or replaced with a smaller system and it's SAMs replaced with ATGMs or rockets.

>>64011697
So basically, a modern version of Tunguska/Gepard with rapidly swappable ammo, would be an efficient battlefield asset for both short range air defence and anti-infantry/anti-materiel use?

>>64010744
desu, I dont think this matters at all. the expressed purpose of the BMPT is to dust Chechen rooftops for RPG teams so its safe for tanks to pass, so it only really needs be able to pepper the side of a residential building.

>>64011700
Not for AA as he described it or the BMPT was intended. The idea was being able to suppress or reduce fighting positions on top of buildings from the road. A major problem for armor in urban environments is not being able to traverse main guns high enough to engage like, the second or third floor from a hundred meters away or whatever, let alone a roof or skyscraper in muh megacity. BMPT was the fake solution to this real problem by a very corrupt and incompetent country. The other anon's solution is fine except that those vehicles don't have the top armor to do the job well, and they're too expensive to be disposable enough to commit to a dicey urban fight by choice (even without RADAR, presumably). Real solutions to the problem described have taken the form of RWS with 40mm attached to whatever the infantry would have been riding into the city anyway ie cheap and really just as good.

tldr it's just chronic grozny nightmares + russian incompetence + russian corruption

>>64011700
A regular tank is an efficient battlefield asset for anti-infatry role and is basically the best anti-fortification weapon bar precision guided artillery and bombs.

Even a ww2 era 3" cannon can blast groups infantry to smithereens better than any autocannon with the coaxial and pintle mounted machine guns clearing the rest.

The whole idea of making a vehicle as heavy, expensive and big as a tank without a correspondingly big cannon or other roles is a waste of money. Using modern AAA for direct fire outside of emergencies is a bad idea too because of all the electronics packed into it ballooning the cost to several tanks' worth for very little benefit in direct fire role.

>>64011700
Better than a "terminator" at least. Biggest thing for a SPAAG refit for the job would be fine control on rate of fire and burst size. Don't really need thousands of rounds per minute to suppress a treeline and emptying the ammo bay every time you tickle the trigger would be bad. If you could limit each gun to 400 rounds per minute for a combined 800 that'd probably do it.

Ideally though you just send an IFV which already generally meets those goals and also has the bonus of being able to carry troops too.

>>64011712
Apparently your average Bradley has better max gun elevation than the BMPT by 29 degrees. The BMP-2 and BMP-3 do better as well, issue there is armor. The BMPT is just an all around shitty platform. They seem to have already done the job fairly well with the ZSU-23-4M2 as far as repurposing SPAAGs goes. Honestly surprised they didn't just figure out how to slap Afghanskii turrets on older T-72, T-64, or T-62 hulls with extra turret armor and an ATGM pod for good measure. Probably would have saved a buck or two and ended up being a much better weapon for the job.

I want an inexpensive AFV that can receive firing data via data link when used for anti-aircraft purposes.

>>64011759
Also, the Shilka/Afghanskii has almost double the max gun elevation of the BMPT. MUCH better for fucking up rooftops in a tight urban environment.

>>64011708
That's bullshit too. Look up the elevation of a BMP-2 vs BMP-T. The BMP-T has less elevation.

>>64011759
>>64011764
kek finally hit these posts. Don't know why the vatniks fooled everyone into thinking BMP-Ts weren't just heavy infantry support vehicles of all things. They always had shittier elevation and the dual gun configuration was because they fucked up the 2A42 installation to somehow preclude the dual feed capability it always had. Somehow they regressed from dual feed 2A42s and went full copium with one gun one feed and forgot to slant the brakes so the blast reflects off the other barrel.

All barrel harmonics and shittiness all the way down with the 2A42:
>Since GRAU was still insisting on their preferred weapon (the 73mm Zarnitsa) and wanted to have nothing to do with the development of a new 30mm cannon in order not to have to admit their own mistake, B.N.Yakovlev was forced to look for help elsewhere, contacting the air force design bureau CKB-14 commanded by A.G.Shipunov and V.P.Gryazev and asking them whether they’d develop the automatic gun for him. In order to keep the deadline for the project, the gun would have to be ready in six months – this deadline was met with very negative reaction, V.P.Gryazev stated that developing a gun that fast was unheard of and with proper testing it would take at least five years. In the end however, Yakovlev managed to convince him since there was an ongoing rivalry between Gryazov and GRAU from the time when GRAU engineers proposed to remove all the guns from the airplanes and use only missiles instead, which was something he as a gun designer did not like for obvious reasons. Needless to say, by turning to Gryazov instead of complying with the use of the Zarnitsa gun, KMZ did not make any new friends in GRAU either.

>>64011759
>In order to design the new gun for the BMP, Gryazov took the GSh-6-30 rotary aircraft cannon that used the powerful 30x165mm round, propelling the 400g projectile to 800 m/s. He basically removed one of the six guns along with the chamber and breech system and used it as a single-barrel weapon. While the solution was viable, GRAU interfered yet again with the development – the gun was fired electrically, but the chief of GRAU technical department, A.A.Grigoriev, insisted on mechanical firing mechanism.

>The argument for this was that the gun „must be possible to be fired even if there is one last man alive in the vehicle with nothing left but his bare hands“.

>>64010744
>>64011379
>>64011759
>As a result of this demand the breech had to be redesigned. While at it, GRAU demanded yet another modification of the gun – it had to have variable rate of fire (specifically for the soldiers to be able to fire only at half RPM – 300 instead of 600) „in order to conserve the ammunition“ This request completely ignored the fact that the gun rate of fire was limited by 8 round bursts anyway and the real reason for it was not as much ammo conservation as it was an attempt to bury – or at least delay – the development. Even without the GRAU interference the development was problematic as it was with the mechanical firing mechanism quite unreliable and the gun overheating. GRAU officers frequently joked: „What’s the rate of fire of that gun? 600 rounds per minute, but only once a month“

>Another issue with the gun was its low accuracy. The gun, installed in the BMP turret, was simply incapable of hitting anything. It took three design bureaus and several GBTU experts to finally figure out in the end that the gun was completely fine, the real problem was in the stabilization of the entire turret: the stabilizing mechanism was incorrectly calibrated and the gun oscillation – instead of being negated by the stabilizer – actually added to it, causing abysmal loss of accuracy when using the stabilizer. This problem was finally fixed by certain modifications to the stabilizer itself (non-linear stabilizing).

>>64010744
>>64011379
>>64011759
>The final – and most annoying – issue with the gun came from an unexpected source: the ammunition. Simply put, it was creating too much gunpowder residue and the gasses quickly filled the crew compartment. When the vehicle was trialed in front of a GRAU committee, the KZM testers switched the compartment ventilators off in order to try to prevent vehicle power grid fluctuations that could interfere with turret controls. As a result, the soldiers present had to drag them out of the vehicle half-suffocated to death from the fumes and had to take them to a local hospital, much to the cynical amusement of the GRAU officials overseeing the tests. The gun designers proposed to use a mechanism that would use secondary burn of the gunpowder fumes after each shot. The only result of this initiative was that after the mechanism was implemented, backfire blasts were coming from the breech after every shot, covering half of the combat compartment in flames – the testing crews were not amused a single bit.

>In the end, the situation was so bad that the developers actually considered mounting the gun externally, creating a vehicle called Object 680, which had a very flat turret with the gun mounted on the rear part of the turret roof. The ammunition feed was located inside the turret. This solution had to be scrapped as well, as the turret could not be protected from WMD’s due to the leaky ammunition feed shaft and it was also not possible to run a powerful ventilator, required to keep the fumes from firing the gun from suffocating the crew, as it interfered with the compartment overpressure and the vehicle was no longer gas-protected. In the end, a rather complicated solution was invented, involving the ventilator running only when the gun was firing, but this caused more delays and the development ran well into 1975.

>>64011659
comrade general wanted more gun, but redesigning the 2A42 so one of the guns would have the dual feed on the left would have cut into the funds everyone was embezzling. this way everyone is happy)))))

>>64011653
>>64011659

According to Wiki, one gun is for AP and the other HE.

>>64010744
>two fuckhuge muzzle brakes
>blasting directly at one another

The designers have clearly never been to a rifle range or they would have known how retarded this is.

>>64015037
>But cumrade, symmetry is more important than accuracy!
The designers of the Ka-52 knew that but it wasn't enough to avoid picrel.

>>64014880
A dual-feed can load both AP and HE just fine though.

>>64010646 (OP)
They have all been destroyed and were less accurate than Shilkas. Those two barrels wiggled and wobbled all over the place during prolonged fire, not a faintest hope of any accuracy whatsoever.

>>64015066
>notoriously wobbly gun on the side of the chopper
russians truely are orks. safety doesn't matter, only dakka is important

>>64015066
>gun is notoriously wobbly
>install it in a side mount blyad
russians truely are orks. sensible design is unimportant, only dakka matters.