Thread 64046082

Hello /k/ommandoes, I've recently come into possession of something insanely cool. This pre war German drilling, and I dunno shit about it. Anyone with any information would be helpful, the shotgun barrels are 15.75mm, which I think is 20 gauge? Rifle barrel is 7.8mm and straight walled, I've got no fucking clue what that could be. I've got pictures of some roll marks, stamps, and numbering I'll post below.

How the fuck do I find a gunsmith that can handle this?

>>64046086
Better one than this

>>64046082 (OP)
>Rifle barrel is 7.8mm and straight walled, I've got no fucking clue what that could be.
8x72R maybe

>>64046117
NPf should be nitro proof mark from Ferlach of Austria. Anything in the receiver rails?

>>64046150
Same npf and same 39.38.27 that's under the barrel

Oh and these are outside each barrel but from what I've seen this is on every barrel made by Krupp in the period, which is pretty much every German/Austrian gun.

>>64046082 (OP)
WALMART shotgun MSRP $129.99

>>64046149
Very possible. Does have a slight taper but wouldn't be immediately noticeable to the eye
Have you measured the rifle chamber for depth, OP?
>>64046117
That is definitely the Ferlach 1st proof to the upper right.
Remnants of an Eagle beneath? Not doing much as to maker though.

>>64046082 (OP)
Very cool, link this thread to the autists in /msg/

>>64046082 (OP)
You might have to take rubbings to identify some of that.

>>64046082 (OP)
>pre war
Pre WHICH war

>>64046286
Pre Butlerian Jihad, post Finno-Korean Hyperwar
That's the most I can narrow it down.

>>64046231
>Have you measured the rifle chamber for depth, OP?
I'm currently struggling with that, when I shine a light from the muzzle it looks like there's a lip before the rifling starts, but I can't catch it with the tail on my calipers, just feels smooth.

>Remnants of an Eagle beneath?
Looking at it real closely I think you're correct, that looks like a Weimar eagle.

>>64046259
First thing I did, those guys are the best

>>64046302
Get yourself some cerrosafe.
It's a requirement when dealing with older Euro guns.

>>64046331
>cerrosafe.
I'll put that on the list, but it's already a long list, one hammer is broken and 2 firing pins are stuck, missing, or damaged. Even if I can figure out who made it I doubt parts for it exist.

>>64046082 (OP)
>15.75mm
Remeasure. They should be 15.9mm according to the barrel markings ("15,9"). I'm not really a collector of German guns, but I'll have a bit more of a look and read through the thread, and post if I notice anything.

>>64046331
>>64046389
For a chamber a taper candle might work.

>>64046390
>They should be 15.9mm
You are correct, got the caliper centered better and found another 1/10th mm

>>64046286
Is that a pre-war thing or a pre-pre-war thing?

>>64046389
IDK how much you know about guns but firing pins can get stuck with dried out oil or grease. I've also heard a lot of old shotguns get oil down through that area as they're stored muzzle-up and it slowly runs back down. Could be a wives'-err, smith tale but the logic is sound as to how plenty of shotguns get their stock wrists oil-soaked. How's the stock look? Pics?

>>64046466
Interesting, the firing pin was a little sticky but what was actually happening was me not understanding the switching between rifle and shotgun, so both shotgun firing pins work (if you can pull back the broken hammer) but I'm still not getting anything from the rifle firing pin.

Also here's the stock, it looks rather nice to me.

>>64046082 (OP)
That IS cool!

>How the fuck do I find a gunsmith that can handle this?
Does it need work done to it?

>>64046149
Seems plausible, and that's a long bitch of a round too. I guess getting a chamber cast done by a gunsmith would be a good thing actually, to be sure.

>>64046225
I appreciate the aesthetic, though with a real nuclear detonation most of those towers in Manhattan would be mostly rubble before the cloud had reached that far up into the sky.
Man, vidya ads were cool once. Also now I kinda wanna play some Duke.

>>64046231
If its a Ferlach gun, the serial number also contains maker ID. I cannot find it right now, but there is a list with the gun smith codes.

>>64046528
Looks good from here. Normal wear. I was more worried about something like this. Note the excessive darkness around the wrist of the stock where it interacts with the receiver.

>>64046541
Another view of the same stock. Yours seems to have been taken very good care of; no gun oil soaking that I can see.

>>64046541
>yeah I think we need a little more case length, just to be sure

>>64046572
Correction:
Found the list and it is only valid post 45. you might want to call/send email to the Beschussamt Ferlach, they can ID the maker from the serial number.

>>64046580
>>yeah I think we need a little more case length, just to be sure
I'm assuming that part of the idea is so that you can load extra fucking long bullets if you wanted to.

>>64046541
>Does it need work done to it?
At minimum the broken hammer needs to be replaced or repaired, but I'm mostly paranoid about taking it apart, I can only imagine the clockwork shit inside.

>>64046572
>>64046590
Thanks for that, I shot them an email so we'll see what they say, if anything.

>>64046578
Okay yea that's what I was imagining when you said oil soaked.

Thanks your all your help everyone, I'm going to bed but I'll be back tomorrow hopefully with information and more pictures. For now have this, note the real tortoiseshell butt plate that is currently disintegrating a bit.

>>64046082 (OP)
fun fact, it's only called a drilling if there are 3 barrels. I thought all combo guns were drillings but apparently drilling means something related to 3 in nazi

>>64046625
Drilling comes from Drei, German for 3, this would be a Vierling, Vier=four. I have no idea why they spell it that way though, even Germans don't spell it Dreiling.

>>64046631
yeah I had thought drilling was just a term for any combo gun

>>64046621
>but I'm mostly paranoid about taking it apart, I can only imagine the clockwork shit inside.
Even the Germans have a hard time fucking up a hammer-fired side by side and I'd be willing to bet that it operates in one of two configurations:
>First trigger operates both shotgun barrels (barrel 1 -> spring reset -> barrel 2) and the rear trigger operates the rifle
>One trigger per barrel for the shotgun plus a switch/toggle/etc. that allows one of the triggers to fire the rifle

Either way it's a long way from "clockwork" and I'd bet that any gunsmith comfortable working on antique shotguns would be comfortable working on this thing; the guts aren't as complex as you might assume from how fancy the exterior is. I would be more worried about getting it cleaned competently, and for that you definitely might want to find someone who specializes in antiques.

>>64046414
Ok so, there are conflicting marks:
>>64046117
On the left and from the top (underside of rifle chamber?):
NPF: 1891-1928 Ferlach smokeless proof
3938.27 (7 overwrites 6) serial and date marking, but conflicting sources: First source (all Austria): 3 (proof house 3, Weipart or Czech), 938 (938th gun proofed in year), (19)27 year. Other source (Ferlach only): 3938 (3938th gun in year), (19)27 year.

On the right and from the top (underside right shotgun chamber?):
spiral thing: 1891-1928 Ferlach proof mark, post 1945 Ferlach first powder proof
eagle thing (3 in the center): 1891-1931 Weipart, 1918-1931 also mark for Czeckslovakian proof.

>>64046131
side of shotgun barrel: 2 x rando markings I can't really work out, then:
shotgun barrel flat: 15.9(mm) cal of shotgun
rifle barrel flat: 2968.27.15.8.75. : 2968 (unknown) .27. (year, definitely known) 15.8.75 (I have seen conflicting formats for this marking and there might be an omitted or removed dot in the 75 for 7.5)
bottom of rifle barrel: 1733.9 possibly 1733g (weight of the barrel in grams?)
>>64046131
28 on lug, possibly a maker code for Peter Mischitz (both pre and post war)

See attached pic, can you get a better shot of the bit in the red box. I am nearly certain there is lettering there, but I can't make it out. There is definitely an 8 and a 1 or a 7. The spacing makes me think there are other characters there too. The 1 or 7 is clearly visible as text in another picture.

>>64046716
Looks like SJS but reversed.

>>64046728
What does?
>>64046716
Ok I found the proper format for 2968.27.15.8.75.

It's a preliminary proof mark for the shotgun barrel, applied before finishing. The 27 in it could actually be 21 as well, all the 7s and 1s are murky, see below.

>2968.27
In the same format as 3938.27 Ferlach above (2968th gun of 27, or 21)
>.15.8.75.
Passed at 15.8mm and 7.5mm prior to finishing. Possibly 15.8 and 1.5mm.

The 1 and 7 thing is a bit dubious in this example because all the 7s could be ones and vice versa, although 6 years between preliminary proof and finishing a barrel seems a lot.

>>64046631
>I have no idea why they spell it that way though, even Germans don't spell it Dreiling.
Why do you call them twins and triplets and not twolets and threelets?

Stimulating OC, it's nice seeing someone dig up a cool curiosity such as this.

>>64046728
>>64046737
Oh wait yeah I see what you mean now. The 2r 2 that's the same way up as the 1733g could actually be SJS mirrored. Alternatively it could be 2J2 in oriented the same way as the R m

Anyway, I think my money is on a guild gun. The lack of any easy to spot maker's mark makes me think that.

>>64046590
The list pre 1945, and apparently derived directly from proofhouse records, is:
20 Stefan Dusel
25 Martin Kruschitz
27 Simon Kalishnik
28 Peter Mischitz
29 Josef Mischitz
30 Josef Orasche
31 Michael Pegam
32 Anton Sodia
43 Johann Sigott
44 Walter Gratzer
45 Erich Achatz
46 Josef Schonlieb
47 Lorenz Schaschl
48 Josef Fanzo

>>64046716
I've thought about it more and I think it got proofed at least three different times. There's no evident first proof marking, but there are three separate final proof marks:

Ferlach final proof on the shotgun/rifle? flat

Weipart final proof on the shotgun/rifle? flat.

Ferlach nitro proof on the underside of rifle chamber.

The serial with the nitro proof has been overwritten; It appears to have been proofed and serialised in 1926 in some capacity, and then reserialised in 1927 (unless it was the very first gun they proofed in 1927 and they hadn't changed the die over yet until they realised their mistake). The format of this serial fits both Ferlach and Weipart, the only two Austrian houses which can match like this (leading 3).

Finally there is a preliminary proof serial that is possibly from 1921, but also possibly from 1927 on the rifle barrel flat. It can be a Prague or Ferlach serial, but it's for the shotgun (so it seems like they were already together by then).

So it gets a preliminary shotgun proof in 1921 or 1927 in Ferlach/Prague - and it seems like the rifle is with it at this point.
It gets the rifle final proofed in Ferlach in 1927, but is possibly first proofed in Weipart in 1926.
The shotgun gets final proofed in Weipart, but also gets a Ferlach final proof mark - was it final proofed twice? Once when it was first finished and then a second time when it got nitro proofed?

Actually pretty fucking interesting. Keep us posted OP.

what's the reason that yuro guns have proof marks and numbers everywhere even for commercial guns but a lot of old american guns didn't even have serial numbers if they weren't for military use? is it just krautism?

>>64046801
Proof marks means the guns were proofed, which means you can be pretty sure they won't blow up in your face.
Wild west yeehaw frontier types didn't care about any of that sissy shit.

>>64046801
Proofmark means they prooftested the gun with a strong overcharge or two, to make sure that it holds up for even that.

Typically this was mandated by laws in European countries, and how it was done (don't know if it's still done), is that any weapon for sale was sent to an independent proofing house, where they would prooftest the gun and then stamp it.
Countries like Britain would also mandate that any gun imported to the country had to be proofed, even if it was already proofed elsewhere, so on some antique guns which ended up in Britain, or once were in Britain, you may find that additional British proofmark along the original proofmark from its country of origin.

In the U.S of A, proofing was never legally mandated in the same way, but just about every single manufacturer just did it themselves in-house anyway. Any Colt, Ruger, Smith & Wesson, etc, gets proofed at their factory, because A) nobody wants any undue liabilities, and B), it's just a good practice in general from both a societal perspective and from a commercial perspective.

If you make a new gun and it actually fails the proofing, boy, that means there's probably something wrong somewhere on the production line and you gotta go look that up and fix it. Guns doing wrong shit like exploding is pretty bad for business, that WILL catch up to you (see the Sig P320, though that's not for explosive reasons).

>>64046848
American guns were usually proofed even back then because people would ream your asshole if you didn't and your handbomb took their fingers, which they would do either legally or through frontier justice.
Remember, these are places where they would hang you for stealing cattle (as well they fucking should).

>>64046801
>but a lot of old american guns didn't even have serial numbers if they weren't for military use?
Serial numbers is a separate thing.

Until 1968, having a serial number on a gun wasn't legally required in America, but unless the weapon was on the cheaper end, manufacturers still usually WOULD serialize firearms, as it's just convenient and practical for manufacturing and commerce purposes. When a product like a firearm has a serial number, you can identify when and where any given gun was made, which can help resolve issues on warranty and recalls.

Say you discover that, oh fuck, certain examples of your pistol made in a certain time period have a tendency to explode or shoot by themselves, then you can more quickly and easily narrow down where that problem is coming from so you can fix it, ideally before any legal cases even happen. Some tooling or machine is worn, not properly calibrated, out of coolant/lube/both, or damaged, some formula isn't adhered to, a new employee turns out to be smoking crack in his car on coffee brakes and he's doing his job wrong, etc.
Then you can send out information telling customers who have these guns to check the serials and then send them in if they match, and they can send them in for fixes or replacements. Handling this quickly is generally good for PR, people like it when you take responsibility for things like these and fix it for them.

A side benefit is that if someone steals your gun from you, then it may be possible for police to return it to you if they recover it. Along those lines, serials are also there to help with criminal investigation, for when guns are used in crime.
Since people who do violent crime are usually pretty fucking stupid, something as simple as serial number on the gun in question can sometimes be pretty helpful for that. Sometimes not though.

>>64046801
Seems that it's required in a lot of countries. I believe certain guns have to be proofed before sale if they weren't. There may also be a point a gun has to be re-proofed before sale but my euro gun laws are rusty. Even American guns get proofed in some countries; take my re-import 10/22 for example. British proofed.

>>64046891
>and how it was done (don't know if it's still done), is that any weapon for sale was sent to an independent proofing house, where they would prooftest the gun and then stamp it.
Countries like Britain would also mandate that any gun imported to the country had to be proofed, even if it was already proofed elsewhere
It's 5AM so maybe I'm misreading but unless things have changed since 1990-something, then yes they still have to be prooftested in the UK. See pic. Bolt, receiver, and barrel are marked.

At least in Germany proofing is required for every gun that is supposed to be shot (e.g. collector's items can be exempt).
The proof also needs to be a "valid" one, though I don't know how exactly that is regulated, though I think too old and too foreign proof marks are void.
For example I have a 60s TOZ sxs shotgun, which has all the soviet proofmarks, but had to be re-proofed for sale in Germany, so it also has the importer and german proof marks.

Say, OP, does it have a set trigger? If you push the front trigger forward, does it click into place?
Also, don't know if anyone has mentioned it already, but with the two triggers generally the front trigger is for the right shot barrel and bullet barrel and the back one for the left.
It's basically the same as if you took an OU shotgun and rotated it to the left.

bump

Okay, I'm up now and I have fresh pictures, thanks for keeping the thread going all night, glad to see there's still some real niggas left on /k/.

>>64046716
Here's a pic of the red box, it seems to have an 8.1 and nothing else. Also all of your question marked guesses on which barrel is which are correct.

I'm gonna say your guess of 1733g being the barrel weight is correct, I threw it on my little kitchen scale and it said 1725 grams, on a cheap amazonium scale id say 8 grams on nearly 4 lbs is within margin of error.

>>64046728
>>64046773
This I'm really not sure about, because those stamps clearly look more like S than 2, but they're mirrored S, I do think you're right that they are contiguous with the RM, those are much sloppier stamps than the rest of them, not as nicely laid out and with strange font. What is a guild gun?

>>64046798
Pretty sure it's a 27, the 7 stamps are at a funny angle that makes them look like 1s but theres a light top line on both of them.

>>64046966
It does not, however it does have this funny little screw in the front trigger, maybe just to adjust pull?

And you're correct, back trigger fires left barrel, front trigger fires right barrel, and when you hit the switch on the back of the wrist a little block comes out that sits between the hammer and rifle firing pin, preventing the hammer from touching the shotgun pin, while pushing on the rifle firing pin.

And finally, got a response from Ferlach, not very useful though, I'll ask if they know a manufacturer.

>>64047965
It's a set trigger screw, push the trigger forwards to greatly reduce the weight of the trigger pull.
To safely unset the Trigger, engage the safety, break the weapon and then pull back the trigger until it clicks.
In german it's called a "Rückstecher" and it's to enable more accurate shots.

>>64048148
Ope, you are correct, it just took a lot more force to set it than I expected. And god damn is that touchy, maybe a pound pull, probably less.

Took it outside for some nice pics, bumping.

>>64048257
breh a 1lb trigger pull is like the da on a revolver. a set trigger is likely to be under 3 ounces.

That is a beautiful heirloom. Ferlach makes some of the best guns in the world.

>>64048875
wait nevermind I'm retarded

>>64048875
>>64048890
You could be right, it's incredibly light.

>>64048881
I can't believe how nicely made it is and how well it's held up. WWII bring back by a family friend and kept by them for the last 70 ish years. Imma keep it forever, it's too cool.

>>64048257
>And god damn is that touchy
Yep, that's what a set trigger is supposed to do

>>64048148
Ah yes, the good old SSBE (you just forgot to set to shot). Just done your Jägerprüfung, I take?

>>64049009
recently yes, but never switched to shot to un-set. Not necessary and not taught here in SH.

>>64049059
Interesting, we actually spent a bit of time on that because IN CASE A SHOT MIGHT GO OFF it's better for it to be shot than bullet, so that was as important as the other things.
Then again, there are no people in SH, so it probably doesn't matter if the bullet flies a bit farther :^)

Bump

>>64047947
>8.1
I think that's your rifle caliber. There's no marking anywhere else for it and it's in the right ballpark for a rifle caliber. Also losing 8g of mass over 100 years to polishing and wear is probably not outside the realm of possibility, even discounting chinesium scale error.
>>64047947
>What is a guild gun?
Gunsmiths would sometimes make guns where a few different people made different parts of it, for example John's apprentice might make the barrel but the inlay and furniture might be done by Frank and John just bought it for his apprentice to finish the project. In cases like this, none of the people who made it would put their trademarks on it. It was also one of the ways that gunsmiths stayed in business despite mechanisation and mass production making huge amounts of generally better guns than them much cheaper, since it means that they could get a little bit of scale efficiency now and again (like, if I've set all my tools to cut a single piece for a commission, maybe just save a bit of effort and make 2 or 3 at once, and organise for other people in the Guild to do the same with other parts to bang together a few guild guns while we're at it). In the case of Ferlach gunsmiths, guild guns also wouldn't get a manufacturer code until postwar, so you'd get a gun with no manufacturer code and possibly no trademarks at all. In the case of a gun like yours that was quite possibly made in multiple regions, and proofed in multiple regions, it's not clear to me how Ferlach manufacturer's codes would even be applied (but again, I don't collect German guns, or Austrian ones so maybe someone who knows about this stuff would know).

Having said all that, I think your gun does/did have trademarks (picrel). I think they're on the outside of the shotgun barrels and the rifle barrel, but they're quite worn so it's very hard to make any sense of them. I'm not familiar with Austrian trademarks so it's not like I'd recognise them even if they were clearer.

>>64050473
>>64047947
err, picrel

>>64046759
>twins and triplets and not twolets and threelets?
Because of the -lets suffix. If we used a -lings suffix for a noun it would be twolings and threelings, to my ear at least, although the verb form is tripling.

>>64048941
>WWII bring back by a family friend
Wtf, this isn't a military weapon, your friend just stole some farmer's family heirloom.

it's interesting how the engraving is fairly nice but the wood finishing is completely unremarkable. maybe the stock was done by a lazy apprentice like
>>64050473
described

>>64050655
vae victus or something

>>64050655
These things happen.

>>64050473
>>64050481
So what could 8.1 caliber be? 8.15x46mmR? Also thank you so much for all the information, I'm gonna try to take some rubbings of those marks and maybe post them around to a few other forums.

>>64051004
>So what could 8.1 caliber be?
8.1x57mmR, a very obsolete load, which you would need to get custom catridges made for unless you have been practicing your reloading-foo and can actually find drawings and specs for it.

>>64050553
That was not the point you silly person

>>64051082
>a very obsolete load
You can say that again, it literally comes up with no results on Google. Off to German Google I guess.

>>64046777
Thank you. Have a Ferlach sidelock for your troubles.

>>64051082
Are you sure it's not just a regular fucking 8x57IR(S)?

>>64052391
Nta but that would also be my first guess. Either the 8x57 IRS or the 8x57 IR based on the OG M/88. Especially because the latter is a rimmed version of 8mm I.

>>64052391
>>64052561
Pretty sure it's not as there is no neck in the chamber, it's a straight walled cartridge.

>>64052572
So just plain 8x57mm I?

8mm I could fit the time period because afaik 8mm IS wasn't allowed for civilian use after Versailles.

>>64052633
That's still bottlenecked isn't it?

>>64046891
>Typically this was mandated by laws in European countries, and how it was done (don't know if it's still done),
Still is, you have to get everything proofed but historical guns generally avoid the ugly proof mark

>>64049450
>interesting, we actually spent a bit of time on that because IN CASE A SHOT MIGHT GO OFF it's better for it to be shot than bullet, so that was as important as the other things.
That's retarded - just point it at the ground

>>64052633
Dude, 8x57mm is just shorthand for 7.92x57mm, and that's bottlenecked. The shorthand was probably made up by people to quickly differentiate it from the 7x57mm Mauser cartridge.

>>64053935
Yea I don't know why people keep saying 8mm Mauser, it 100% isn't. 8x72mmR is a good guess, I don't really know any other 8mm straight wall cartridges off the top of my head.

>>64052239
I read a little more into Austrian proofing and it also might be 8x57R, because those degenerates measured from the grooves. 8x57R (not to be confused with IR, JR or an unrelated bottleneck R from Holland) is only a little less obscure than 8.1, but at least it can be looked up and dimensions for it are definitely extant lol.

You need to take a cast. The markings are ambiguous and there are way too many possibilities, most of which are not even close to safely interchangeable. It needs to go to a gunsmith anyway, so they can do it while it's there anyway.

>>64046225
THEY KNEW

>>64046541
It really was a beautiful world we left behind

>>64055321
>>64055159
The neck is pretty subtle on 8x57R. I don't think I'd discount it, because I think you could miss it going by feel instead of casting.

>>64055374
>>64055321
>>64055159
A lot of the pictures labelled as 8x57r that come up from a search are actually jr or ir, so you could get the impression that it's very similar to them, but actual 8x57r looks closer to a straight walled round than a military bottleneck.

>>64055321
Diagram.

>>64055159
8x48 Saur

>>64055159
8x58R

>>64046082 (OP)
Wow, very pretty engraving.

(because you did say somewhere above that it might have some taper)
>>64055159
8x58R Sauer and 8x57R Express (not to be confused with leisurely 57R).

I'm enjoying this thread. Weird hunting cartridges are extremely civilized.

>>64055159
If the casting is in the range of these 8x57-58 or has a 360 Nitro parent in general then you're in for a little more research, because the there are a handful of obscure loads that dimensionally overlap. If that happens it unironically might be worth picking one that's dimensionally compatible and reproofing in it for piece of mind. Nearly all of them are also out of production and most are so rare that individual catridges are collectors items, some of which only single digit numbers are known to exist.

A bit of an oof for shootability, and afaik it also hits sale value a bit. You'd have thought it would prove collectability, but who am I to say.

>>64055536
>piece of mind
Is what I give people who disagree with me. Here I meant "peace of mind".

>>64055321
>You need to take a cast.
The Cerrosafe is in the mail, but I'm going racing this weekend so I won't have time until next weekend.

>>64055374
>>64055417
>>64055472
>>64055480
>>64055536
Thanks for these, once I have the casting at least i'll have options to compare it too.

>>64055159
>I don't know why people keep saying 8mm Mauser
And like, I don't want to shake your faith in humanity, but they're saying it because it's the only 8mm round they know other than 8mm short, and most people at the edge of an enthusiast activity like militaria grossly overestimate the extent of their domain knowledge.

You know enough to say "This seems like a good guess, since I don't know other possibilities without looking." Ie, I don't know and know there are options I don't know of, but this seems compatible with the cartridge type and rough caliber.

I know enough to say "I don't know, it needs a chamber cast. Even getting the way Austrians measure the width of something wrong already made me make a bad guess once, here are a bunch more options that might be compatible with what we know."

They don't know enough to say that. They know more than people who know nothing about the topic, so they know everything. They know Germany and Austria are somewhere near each other and they know of a German catridge that has 8mm in the name, so they know enough to confidently contribute.

And this is what it's like on most topics on most hobby boards. Not ripping on dudes, but I do wish they'd phrase more of their uncertain statements with caveats about their level of expertise, or introspect and then post as a question instead.

>>64055566
>racing
Oh cool, what kind of racing?

>>64055609
Vintage motorcycle roadracing, because guns weren't nearly an expensive enough hobby.

>>64055566
Oh, also 32-40 Winchester (8.1x54mmR). Huge W if it's that, since I think it's still pretty widely commercially available in America because of stupid durr hunting laws. Unsure if anyone ever made any in Europe though, let alone in obscure mountain villages, but hey it would be cool and very lucky.

>>64055656
Tasteful. Does everyone wear period appropriate motorcycling attire as well? That would be incredibly cool.

>>64055671
Some of the older guys still run the same leather suits from decades ago but that's as close as it gets, modern helmets are required and most people have airbags, either built in or over their old suits. Crashing hurts enough in modern gear, I wouldn't go out there with a cork filled helmet.

>>64055668
32 Ballard Extra Long. Might even be the best candidate.

>>64055668
>>64055701
I would actually cum if it's something I can buy for $3 per round from a mfr, I've pretty much been planning on having a really cool double barrel shotgun and never shooting the rifle.

>>64055708
I found a source that says an 8.1 marking was used in Ferlach to denote 8.15X46R, so I actually think you're rogered lol. Better start getting into handloading. I need to stop looking into this, let us all know how you go with it.

>>64055791
I'll make a thread once I cast the chamber and look into repairing/replacing the hammer. Keep an eye out in a couple weeks.

You're a scholar and a gentleman.

>>64046528
The style of the engravings really, really, really, looks like Krieghoff, but the proofs are definitely Austrian. Really weird. Whack shit.

>>64050655
More likely it was a surrender gift from a German officer.

>>64056014
Wait nvm, Ferlach drillings have the same style.

>>64046082 (OP)
Ok, my autistry has peaked. I reckon it's a Johan Sigott drilling, in fact I'd bet my left nut. 19ga SxS, unsure on rifle caliber. The circumstances of the multiple proofs are still very curious. The unidentified and heavily worn markings presumed to be trademarks match very closely in location and form for Johan, to my eye at least, but they're way too worn to be certain. The dude seems also to be a semi enigma because it seems like he didn't do a great job of consistently marking his work. Had a colorful family life too: His son was a fraudster and he had to send letters to everyone in whole regions warning them not to lend him money and shit, and his daughter killed herself at age 27 or so in 1921 (which could help account for possibly starting a gun and getting the barrel preliminary proofed in 1921, then finishing it in 1926/1927).

A similar Sigott hammer drilling from 1925 in 9.3x72R and 16ga sold at Morphies (lot 938, closed in 2017) for $1200: It really looks for all the world like a big brother to what you have.

I still can't work out the Weipart bit and I'm dying to know.

>>64056280
>>64046082 (OP)
Uncannily similar in style and craft to >>64046528

>>64056320
Another Sigott drilling in 20x70 and 7x70R from 1931.

>>64056348
Closup of engravings on that one.

>>64056354
Sigott gun showing the 2r2 marking, along with one of his known trademarks.

>>64056280
>>64056320
>>64056348
>>64056354
>>64056405
Based autismo.

I salute you.

>>64056440
>I salute you.
My procrastination knows no bounds rn.

>>64056521
Basically I think the dude did his CC trademark over the top of something pretty close to a Ferlach proofmark, maybe even an actual Ferlach proofmark, instead of just doing it normally. Who the fuck knows why, maybe he'd lost his marbles by that point. The style is just way too similar to his other work to ignore though. While there were lots of gunsmiths using common engravers, joiners etc, OP's and the Morphy's gun are more similar to each other than to any two other Ferlach guns I've glanced at while tisming this afternoon.

>>64046389
Very nice rifle you gut there, it must once have been the rifle of a rich man.
Imperial proofs and stamps were used in Austria til ca. 1928.

Im from Austria and I live 20 mins from Ferlach.
Your problem is, you dont.
Because if you did, you could go to the gunmaker guild or proof house in Ferlach, where they can look up your gun, 99% chance they have it in their books which go back to the 18th century. but only the post 1945 are digital afaik. every gun ever made in Ferlach is there (exept those made for our former ustasha friends in craotia, when they needed guns to get rid of the serb pests in the 1990s, but thats a different story)

if they dont have documents, they measure the calibers and broken parts to remake it.
they can make every screw, hammer, receiver, stock etc. from scratch. for every gun known to man. and it doesnt cost a fortune.
but im afraid, you are on the wrong continent.
BUT: send pics to the proofhouse in Ferlach, maybe they can help, usually they are very cooperative.

The guns in Ferlach were never made by one single guy it was a manufacturing industry:
usually system / receiver and completion of the whole gun was done by the big name gunsmith. but he had one subcompany doing stocks, another doing screws and triggers, another blueing and someone doing the engravings etc. depending on calibers barrels were made in house or bought from suppliers.
one rifle can have parts from 10 fifferent proffesionals.

>>64055604
8x57 is just Occam's razor in this case because it was and still is a very popular hunting cartridge in central Europe.
Of fucking course it could be any other funny obscure cartridge, but if your pants smell like shit you won't check your chair for dog poop first.

>>64056665
He already has. They were kind of useless. See:
>>64046590
>>64046621
>>64047970

>>64056745
8x57JR etc isn't Occam's Razor, because it's not the right type of cartridge for the chamber. It is a bottlenecked cartridge and this is a straight walled chamber.

Your post is almost literally word for word a perfect demonstration of what I was talking about in the post you replied to.

>>64056821
thats the viennese email adress, he asked in vienna, not ferlach.
they have to go into the paper lists before '45 which are in ferlach...

or, now is holiday time, maybe hes writing with some internship incel who doesnt give a fuck.

office-ferlach@beschussamt.gv.at

>>64046082 (OP)
Oh, neat, never expected to see one of those here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LnHW3-aDP30

9.3x74R

>>64056828
Oops, missed the straight wall part lol sorry, my point still stands and you're a faggot who is way less clever than he thinks he is.

>>64056871
>office-ferlach@beschussamt.gv.at
That's exactly the email I contacted, and got no response, maybe someday it'll be worth a trip out there in person, maybe I could get a better answer another day from another person. But I think this >>64056280 gigachad is correct.

Also I may be retarded (forgive me it is my first shotgun) but it's definitely a 16 gauge, not a 20 gauge. Ask me how I know.

This is a very good thread.

>>64057549
Feels like the old days doesn't it?

>>64057410
>definitely a 16 gauge
Totally expected, that is by far the most common caliber for shotgun barrels in a drilling.

>>64046631
>have no idea why they spell it that way though, even Germans don't spell it Dreiling.
Diphtongs are long and more clunky by nature so in fast spoken or complex words they tend to get replaced by their closest related vowel that is the easiest to pronounce.
The English schwa is incredibly common, maybe the most common vowel of the language, but most people don't even know it exists and it came about for similar reasons.

t. Linguist

>>64057410
I don't think I've ever actually seen a drilling with 20s over anything other than a 5.6mm bore, so that is not a surprise

>>64059774
Damn that subject line really brought out allllllll the autists. Nice.

Bump

hoping 2 see this go somewhere neat

>>64046082 (OP)
Interesting thread bump. What's it chambered in op

>>64046082 (OP)
Finally, a decent thread.

>>64069011
Shotgun is 16 gauge, rifle is up in the air, a lot of possibilities have been posted but I won't know until I take a chamber cast this coming weekend. Thanks for bumping though I'm in bumfuck nowhere and I need this thread to survive until I get home and can screencap the whole thing.

Bump

>>64071236
>I need this thread to survive until I get home and can screencap the whole thing.
desuarchive.