Thread 64052562

>Germany is ordering 3500 AMV XP

Why?

>all that money to finland
thank you

Pretty sure it's XA-300 they're buying, not AMV
It's a Fuchs and M113 replacement

The Puma rides again.

>>64052562 (OP)
germany has a donkey shortage

>>64052562 (OP)
No Fuchs were given.

>>64052596
90% of the production is dove in Germany.

>>64052598
That was the earlier CAVS program they entered. This is a new package where they also buy about 5000 Boxers.

they really have no clue at all

Another finnish win

>>64052562 (OP)
>Why?
Did you miss the memo about the largest land war in Europe since 1945 going on right now?

>>64052643
It's still worth many billions and increases Patria's sales for the future.

>>64052647
It's being quoted at 5Bn for 3500 patrias and 25Bn for 5000 boxers
Boxers are not 5x the price of AMV. This is the production order for CAVS being scaled up from 1000 vehicles to 3500

>>64052562 (OP)
>AMV XP
no, CAVS
>why
Fuchs replacement

>>64052897
No. CAVS is s different program that has been already inked. This is a new one.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2025-07-29/germany-readies-military-order-for-8-500-armored-vehicles

>In addition, the country intends to procure at least 3,500 Patria AMV armored vehicles from the Finnish company Patria. These will replace the outdated Fuchs armored personnel carriers.

Without crazy anti drove stuff on these I don't understand buying them desu

Damn, how many vehicles are now on germanys shopping list?

>>64052562 (OP)
have they signed the contract, or is this another
>intends to do it any day now
because if it's the latter you can fuck off and not come back until the contract is inked

>>64053066
I've always wondered why Patria was allowed to just make a Fuchs 2.0. And why the Germans never made one.

>>64053086
Because Patria focused on developing low cost equipment while german snd French companies focus on high tech low product run wunderwaffe that have high unit cost.

>>64053086
>why the Germans never made one
part Fukuyama, part Boxer
because of the former, they thought they could downsize the army so far that they could all drive Boxers - if you're only operating 1,000 vehicles anyway, you can afford to buy nothing but the best
now that they are upsizing the army, they need to go back to a hi-lo mix - maybe 1,000 Boxers and 1,000 Patria

*numbers here are purely notional of course for analogy's sake

>>64053107
I'm talking about why they never made a new Fuchs, since they made the old one and since it's a very basic vehicle. Like, why let the fins snap up that section of the market.

>>64052562 (OP)
Because their economy is in a nosedive and they're running out of money to 'stimulate' it so they figure they'd better take advantage of their new found debt issuance while there are still suckers willing to buy it.

>>64053115
Waste of R&D and other time if there's a competing product on the market and it's already well known

>>64053115
and I gave you the answer
read it again
>why let the fins snap up that section of the market
European socialism, no joke
it's hard work selling APCs your own country doesn't buy, why bother?

>>64052562 (OP)
Good, it’s about time Anime Music Videos made a comeback

>>64053066
I doubt it. Probably a mistake in the article. Germany is buying Boxer, CAVS and Piranha, adding another platform would make no sense.

>>64053115
Finns wanted a Pasi (XA-180) replacement before Germans decided they wanted a Fuchs replacement

>>64052562 (OP)
>Why?
It is high quality and modern vehicle design, has been more or less battle tested, and Patria is pretty open about letting other countries to do the actual manufacturing.

>>64052618
underrated kek

>>64053139
This sort of makes sense. Let others have the IFV and APC market and capitalize on being the go to MBT producer for most of Europe already.

>>64052562 (OP)
Standardized vehicle fleets in Europe. You know, the logistics thing.

>>64052562 (OP)
They very well could be buying these for Ukraine or something like that.

>>64052562 (OP)
>Replacing 1000 Fuchs with 3500 XA-300s
On what planet is it reasonable to triple the fleet over cold war numbers? I get the BDS wants to expand, but what retard thought this would be a good buy? How long until this number inevitably gets slashed by 90%. I can't believe that Russia is still this massive boogeyman for retarded geriatric European politicians after 3 years into the 2 week SMO. All of this was a kneejerk reaction, but by the time this shit is going into effect, the threat is no longer there.

>>64053152
MAD > AMV

>>64052869
>Boxers are not 5x the price of AMV
You would be surprised. Besides, that's only 3.5x.

>>64053152
I'VE BECOME SO NUMB

>>64052562 (OP)
they are already getting Boxers isn't that redundant?

it is Patria 6x6, they're not buying something that is the exact same as the Boxer
https://www.patriagroup.com/newsroom/news/2022/germany-signs-a-statement-of-intent-to-join-cavs-6x6-vehicle-programme

>>64055428
Who says it's just for russia?

>>64056099
You're gonna tell me that Germany's gonna join some Pacific conflict? With what expeditionary force? Most Euro nations would struggle to deploy their own forces to that conflict, let alone themselves and another nation. Or are you gonna say that Germany and Poland are gonna get into a hot war? This was always about Russia as that's what sparked this euro rearmament drive, but the problem is by the time equipment gets budgeted and deliveries happen, like 4 years have passed and whatever threat is gone.

>>64056153
>but the problem is by the time equipment gets budgeted and deliveries happen, like 4 years have passed and whatever threat is gone.
The US is making an obvious shift towards the Pacific and will be withdrawing its resources from Europe as that crisis unfolds. Could be years, could be decades but the end result is US security guarantees (the purpose of NATO's existence post 1991) are no longer guaranteed. Europe needs to re-arm regardless of wether Russia is or is not an imminent threat because we live in a multipolar world now regardless of what the talking heads say.

>>64056304
Also by rearming Europe is more shielded from random schizo episodes that the failed "democracy" of the USA tends to produce every so often. The dependency on USA was always a strategic mistake, USA is not EU-lite. It's a pseudo-democratic oligarchy full of schizoid religious retards.

>>64056368
while I agree that dependency on any nation other than yourself is a mistake, you're still a seething yurocuck

>>64056368
>The dependency on USA was always a strategic mistake, USA is not EU-lite.
Don't pretend there was a choice in the matter. Europe hasn't had independence sine 1945. It is getting it thanks to 30 years of geopolitical fuck ups. Just be happy it is happening.
>It's a pseudo-democratic oligarchy full of schizoid religious retards.
"Democracy" is just oligarchy but with some facades put up. But yes we are a failed experiment in self government and will be undergoing some radical changes here soon.

>>64056408
>Don't pretend there was a choice
lying yurofags

>>64052562 (OP)
same reason why CDU ordered a gorillion overpriced masks during covid

>>64056153
>like 4 years have passed and whatever threat is gone.
Just like Russia never went to war after the collapse of the USSR, oh wait...

>>64056408
>"Democracy" is just oligarchy but with some facades put up.
It works somewhat when it is a parliamentary system with plurality of parties, not a duopoly.

>>64056304
>we live in a multipolar world now
This is so retarded it can only come from a perspectiveless doomer-burger who can't see his cunt from the outside

Panicking easterlings in this thread
>why
>who allowed
>is it reasonable
Hope you all burn, TZD
PRO PATRIA FINLAND, PERKELE

>>64055428
This isn't gonna stop after the russia is defeated in Ukraine, we now know the russia is too dangerous to be left united. After the young russian demographics have been destroyed in Ukraine, European APCs will enter the russia and balkanize and demilitarize it permanently.

>>64052562 (OP)
Remember when these faggots teamed up 80 years ago? That ended real well.
Both of these people are such despicable cunts.

>>64056460
>It works somewhat when it is a parliamentary system with plurality of parties
Not a single European country has ever voted for more immigration, and yet we just keep getting more and more of it. Stop the coping, "democracy" isn't real.

>>64057307
What was the country that beat them?

Oh wait, it crumpled into corruption and prostitution before splitting into a dozen or so smaller countries.

>>64053115
there is a second gen fuchs but it costs a bit more and has a greater capability range. They choose the cheaper option as we are actually preparing for a massive war and not for an health infusion

>>64056390
cope ameritard

>>64057307
> teamed up
huh, don't recall having rear echelon troops in the like of italy, romania or hungary is much of a "team".
And let's not pretend that modern russia is in any form or shape even resemble stalin ussr.
That's even without mentioning britain continental blockade certainly didn't help germs war effort in any way whatsover.
And strategic bombings gradually worn down luftwaffe reserve, without it, the whole eastern front was a free turkey shoot for the germs

>>64057324
You lost.
>>64057489
>We would have won if we didn't lose

>>64057309
Nah, we get immigration because one side of the chamber thinks of their bleeding heart voter base and the other thinks of free slaves

>>64057544
Yeah, and not a single motherfucking person has ever voted for it, just like no-one's ever voted for more gun control or off-shoring all manufacturing to third world countries, nor has anyone voted for the new totalitarian real ID spyware the EU is cooking up. The monoparty pretends to fight every couple of years to fool retards like you, and then goes right back to doing whatever the fuck they want.

>>64057529
> we
is this 'we' currently in this room with us ?

>>64057578
You are most likely some form of salty kraut.

>>64055428
It’s about giving europe a hammer to smash things with again in general, the sentiment has been that we’re awakening from the post cold-war delusion that everyone’s as civilised as we are and we could just get our way using mutual agreements and economic influence, this was clearly a massive mistake. Europe has enough soft power, we need hard power, whether for russia or any issues that might arise in the future.
Europe’s re-armanent is not a short-term thing, it’s not just here for the immediate threat.

>>64057529
>You lost.
How can we lose when my country hasen't been in a war for like 200+ years?

>>64057596
> more projecting
> muh kraut
sounds more and more like you are a mad vatnik who brought up the ussr out of nowhere in modern era where it has nothing to do with them
Or perhaps, you were from some frozen shithole in russia, and failed to get the memo that the ussr is long dead ?
But no worry, the glory of the 80s and 90s is coming back, my dear :^)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=USbIqTNMkLk

>>64052562 (OP)
because russia lost too many armored vehicles in ukraine and ww3 demands APCs to attack NATO. Oh yeah heads up germany flips sides over nordstream 2, that's why you're going to fight them alongside russia again

>>64057720
Germany will never abandon its project with EU

>>64057562
They voted for less immigrants in Denmark and got it from a social democratic coalition. Curious!

>>64057720
Either a retarded schizopost or an attention-craving baitpost.
Pathetic in either case

>>64057739
>Yeah, the Danish said "0 niggers please" and instead of 600 000 arabs, niggers and streetshitters they only imported a 100 000 foreigners a year. Checkmate, chud

>>64057764
It's pointless to continue this discussion because you're clearly inside your black-and-white worldview where the only acceptable outcome is total, not anything else in-between. That's not gonna happen in a parliamentary system with a plurality of parties, and it's a good thing simply because it curtails retarded schizos into their own fringe parties that will never get any power. But have a nice day Sir, hope you get over your hatred and rage some day.

>>64057814
>ermh, the monoparty doing whatever the fuck it wants and ignoring the mandate of the people is a good thing actually, chud
Well, at least you went mask off and just came out and said it plain as day

>>64057785
Hi warriortard

>>64057825
Look, you can ignore all evidence that runs contrary to your pet conspiracy, but it won't make it any less true. Yes, parties coordinate. Yes, institutions have plans for decades. No, that does not mean that voting for SDP gets the same results as voting for some schizoid vatnik party.

>>64052562 (OP)
National debt needs to grow to make excuses for future government policies. Need to create a crisis so we can ignore the peoples will again.

>>64056153
It's adorable how you think russia is just going to vanish off the planet after their state collapses.
Or maybe you think the same place run by the same vodka-addled slav retards is going to get better in the future if it changes its name on paper.

>>64057720
>>64057730
>>64057751
you will find yourself very surprised when an economically failing germany suddenly decides to hold the US accountable for destroying the infrastructure of a country that did nothing wrong. I expect such discussions to begin after a temporary ceasefire between Ukraine and Russia, which Russia will agree to only after capturing Odesa.

>>64057307
meat waves, and such
>45+ million dead bolsheviks

>>64058022
>y-you will find yourself very surprised when my schizo fantasy finally comes true!
Sure bud.

>>64052618
Even for their mountain troops ?

>>64059469
They taste good

>>64052562 (OP)
They already have Boxer, why buy another APC?

>>64059520
Boxer is AFV not APC, and costs about six times more.

>>64059678
>and costs about six times more.
ah, is see.
zee german engineering strikes again

>>64057739
That’s like when Steve Jobs finally started doing real cancer treatment when he was past the point of no return

>>64058022
The US tends to bomb Muslim countries as opposed to being intimidated by them Germ*n

>>64057347
thanks for buying american after 6 months of seething yuropoor

>>64056304
>>64056457
>>64057274
>>64057602
>>64057893
>Russia might attack again = we need to buy over 3x the number of wheeled APCs than the height of cold war tensions.
This isn't even counting Boxers either. You retards don't even understand what I'm saying. They pushed this buy order back when Russia was still le 2nd military of the world and now we know that things turned out different. Even a 1:1 replacement of the Fuchs would likely be plenty, 1.5-2x if you want to keep a reserve, but on what fucking planet do you need 3,500 XA-300s and like 800 Boxers to fight against Russia especially in a full NATO conflict? This order is absolutely going to be downscaled in some capacity. Germany is being retarded going all in on a ground war when FCAS is dead in the water and the ENTIRETY of the their navy has around the same VLS cells as a single Tico. They could halve this order and spend whats left on more Patriot or IRIS-T batteries which are infinitely more useful.

>>64060337
nobody is buying XA-300s even if retards ITT insist on it. It's the Patria 6x6, Fuchs replacement for all kinds of tasks. Boxers are needed for all kinds of tasks too, short-range air defense with Skyranger and IRIS-T SLS turrets alone will require 100+ vehicles. And no, that isn't over the top if you don't want your army to be defenseless drone food.

>>64060454
>nobody is buying XA-300s
>It's the Patria 6x6
You're the retard, you could at least google what the XA-300 designation is first.
>Boxers are needed for all kinds of tasks too, short-range air defense with Skyranger and IRIS-T SLS turrets alone will require 100+ vehicles.
The final order is shaping up to be 3,500 XA-300 and around 800 Boxers across variants. It's definitely over the top when you have a 3rd rate air force and a 4th rate navy when you have a minimum of 2 other countries between you and your largest threat. Again the entire German navy has a bout the same firepower as a single Tico while the largest current threat is strategic bombers flying down the North Sea.

>>64060514
right, my bad about the designation. Earlier in the thread everyone was talking about the AMV.
20 additional Eurofighters, 35 additional F-35A, F127 air defense frigates, more IRIS-T SLM will likely be ordered too.
>minimum of 2 other countries between you and your largest threat
you are aware there are alliance committments, right?

>>64053086
>I've always wondered why Patria was allowed to just make a Fuchs 2.0.
Because they made it as private project. Because essentially all western new APC's were simply too expensive to replace all older APC's. Add habbening in Ukraine, suddenly a lot of western governments were interested such cheaper APC.
>And why the Germans never made one.
I'd assume kraut industry just bet on government getting fuckload of Boxers. I'd also assume German industry wanted German government to pay for development.

>>64057602
When will europe recolonize Africa? And south America? East-India maybe?
Asking for a friend in mining industry.

>>64052562 (OP)
>>64052647
Source, newfag