>it took the US Army 70 years to admit that the brits were right all along with the .280 british
Better late than never I guess.

>taking any advice about firearms from the British
who could possibly be retarded enough to do that?
oh right, Sig, that figures.

Are these going to randomly explode outside the magazine?

>>64061201
I have 0 faith in the two part construction so maybe

>>64061178 (OP)
Wow, we've really come so far

>>64061178 (OP)
>the more someone advocates .280 British the less they know about it

>>64061178 (OP)
the spear fucking sucks and is/was a stupid idea
>everyone's sperging about the new logic in war being sustainment/logistics
>switch to a service rifle that burns through barrels like 3x as fast, uses heavier and more expensive ammunition, and STILL doesn't consistently defeat level IV
>which is irrelevant because none of our adversaries even issue body armor at scale
they should have just bought some AR-10s in 308 so they don't have to bust the M14s out if they need to plink at tuskens in conflicts where engagement range is long.

>>64061244
Is that a PRC on bottom?

>>64061877
You wrote so much to say so little of merit.

>>64061879
nah, that's .308

>>64061244
>So, you are telling me it's shorter than the DMR cartridge than we're currently using?
No, it's the same size
>Than it's more powerful?
No, it's about the same
>But the higher velocity?
Shorter barrel life
>Looks over to the Sig guy smoking a cigar holding a stack of money
What the fuck

>>64062180
.277 Fury has the same case length as .308. That's either .30 TC or it's sneedmore and the bullet looks fatter than it really is.

>>64061178 (OP)
>.280 british
A round with worse performance than .270 British and 6.5 Grendel.

>>64062195
>Than it's more powerful?
>No, it's about the same
Well this confirms that you know nothing about the .280 British.

>>64062220
https://www.thearmorylife.com/forum/threads/cartridge-of-the-week-the-277-sig-fury.13063/

>>64061899
He's entirely correct, the NGSW is retarded.

>>64062220
.277 is practically a short case .270 winchester running retard pressure to make up for the capacity loss.
But wait they've gone to reduced pressure because of how much it fucks up the gun.
So .277 Fury is nothing but a .270 Winchester in a .308 length case, at 70-72k psi instead of 65.

I can't believe I've lived to see one of the worst small arms mistakes in all of history.

Should have just adopted 6.5CM widely, as its already in use by SOCOM and any 308 can be readily converted to it. With tungsten core penetrators it perfect.

>>64061244
So are these going to be impossible to reload or what?

They wanted 2950fps out of a 16" barrel, which they got. 6.5 sneed out of a 16 inch barrel is pushing barely 2450-2500

6.5 Sneed is a cartridge meant entirely for shooting steel and paper, it has terrible terminal ballistics, at common hunting distances it just zips right through animals. You can't just put a tungsten penetrator on a 6.5 bullet and expect it to do everything.

They wanted a low BC bullet that was cheap to mass produce, which they got. Army says at 500y the .277 has 12 inches less drop than a 6.5 sneed out of a 16" barrel (41 inches vs 53). I don't know how they're calculating this, I'm dubious of their claims on drop with the 135gr training ammo, maybe the actual high pressure hybrid case stuff at 80k psi performs that well.

If the cartridge does what they're saying it does (high velocity high energy low BC and same length as a .308) it's probably really good. Honestly I wouldn't have a problem with it if they decided to just put it in a 16" suppressed bolt action with a folding stock and their gay little ballistic calculator LPVO. It makes more sense as a fire team DMR/SPR than an infantry rifle. I feel like all the problems they're running into are because they're trying to make it a semi automatic. The requirements are just too high and push the weight up to just under an M110A1.

>>64063387
I suspect they already had a 6.8 projectile the eggheads had cooked up and wanted a cartridge and gun to shoot it.

>>64063422
This is exactly correct, there are press releases directly stating it. The improvements that they managed with m855a1 got the ball rolling on more projectile designs in general. They came up with a projectile design in 6.8 that they liked so much that they wanted a new rifle that could utilize it.

>>64063387
>6.5 Sneed is a cartridge meant entirely for shooting steel and paper, it has terrible terminal ballistics, at common hunting distances it just zips right through animals
6.5 sneed has probably killed tens if not hundreds of thousands of deer at this point. People have been using a 243 for deer since before your granddaddy was born

>>64063387
>If the cartridge does what they're saying it does
It doesn't, which makes literally every other discussion about this disaster of a rifle completely irrelevant

>>64061178 (OP)
The 280 British was shit, would require bulky magazines, and has a rainbow arc. 223 is vastly superior as an infantry cartridge, no question about it.

.277furry is shit for different reasons.

>>64061178 (OP)
You're more retarded than the US government.

>>64063627
Thanks for putting my exact thoughts into words.

>the year is 1912
>following 20 years of long-range counterinsurgency fighting in the distant edges of their empire, the British generalship move to adopt a doomed long-range rifle and cartridge on the eve of a major peer war

>the year is 2022
>following 20 years of long-range counterinsurgency fighting in the distant edges of their empire, the American generalship move to adopt a doomed long-range rifle and cartridge on the eve of a major peer war

it's all so tiresome

>>64063387
do you think you're supposed to hunt deer with FMJs or something

>>64063216
Nah, they should be just fine. A bi-metal case is going to add manufacturing complexity, cost, and potential for case separation.
The biggest issue is we already have .308, it has similar performance, and we're already mass producing them on the cheap. This was sold to the public as a replacement for 5.56, but what we're getting isn't .308 which we already have, but "worse .308" that is going to cost a ton of money to develop that we didn't need to spend.

>>64061178 (OP)
>Bongistani firearms design
>Nigel's pissin hot 7.2 mm boolets
Errrrrm no thanks, I prefer AR's AK's not chambered in meme rounds plus whatever the Finish are cookin up nowadays.

>>64063535
With JHPs.
Which are irrelevant for the conversation.
>>64065582
Do you think you're just going to be allowed to switch to JHPs in military service or something?

>>64065583
>A bi-metal case is going to add manufacturing complexity, cost
Unitary cartridge manufacturing is actually absurdly complex.
You need to strike a sheet off brass into a blank-and-cup die or start with a puck, then do multiple rounds of drawing and ironing which causes the metal to work-harden and requires you to send the brass to annealing stations and through a wash cycle to rub the scale off. Then you draw/iron again, anneal and wash again, etc.
We just have an entire economy of scale built around unitary cartridges that allow ammo manufacturers to pump them out for cents. If you were starting from scratch, a bimetal case would actually be cheaper. It's just that you can't beat the bigger players with an already established process.

>>64065582
Hunters back when fmjs were new loved them. Said they fragmented easily and caused quick deaths. I believe them desu as the alternative was lead. FMJs are only "bad" because of an arbitrary lethality standard that was established to measure handgun efficacy. Rifles are a completely different ballgame. Some fmjs toothpick, others are devastating.

>>64062368
From your own link:
>The cartridge uses a case that is the same length and diameter as the .308 Winchester.
He either got a picture from somewhere else and mislabeled it, or grabbed the wrong cartridge when he went to take the picture himself.

>>64063626
t. mad that the bullpup thing didn't win

>>64065583
Isnt it strictly better than .308 in terms of raw ballistic performance? It just costs way more and fucks barrels up way faster

>>64067491
The .277 Furry is only very slightly better performing than M80A1 Ball, but instead is retard loud, burns barrels, and at risk for occasional case head separation.

>>64067491
Don’t listen to the other anon. It’s considerably better. Cost is an issue of economy of scale though. Eventually it’ll gain parity after about a decade.
Same as 6.5 CM.

>>64061178 (OP)
>We tried to tell you
>All you had to do was listen

>>64067491
It is, but the question is always "better enough?"
that's the answer that has kept the M2 in service for a century will keep B-52 airframes built in the 60s in the air until the 2050s.
IMO the answer is no. It was also stupid to spend money reinventing the wheel on sidearms and we've all seen how that went. They could have just bought a bunch of glocks or some other generic strikerslop but they had the classic military making stupid/contradictory requirements around what should be a simple request which had many, many more than adequate existing solutions to get something that offers some useless niche functionality.

The funniest part of that entire contract was glock basically ignored the military requirements out of recognition that they were fucking stupid. SIG tailored a gun to them and priced it super aggressively and we've seen the outcome of that.

>>64061899
And you were able to refute nothing

>>64061178 (OP)
I have yet to hear a good explanation of what the fury does so much better than 762 that we needed to spend retarded amounts of money on replacing what worked just fine.
We replaced 556 with a cartridge that is worse than 308 in terms of power and penetration while taking up the same magazine space.

They should replace 5.56 with 300 blk the average brownoid that is in the US Army will never shoot past 300 yards all of that "markmen" talk is gay shit for mall ninjas.

>>64068232
300blk was a replacement for 9mm smg's, noguns.

>>64068300
I know, it carries more energy out of a shorter barrel and can swap to subs without any gas adjustments.
The average brown female in the US military isn't shooting out to 500 yards.
All of this gay shit is SIG marketing.

>>64068316
>All of this gay shit is SIG marketing.
That we can agree upon

>>64068227
It does the same thing as 7.62 but out of a 13" barrel instead of a 20" barrel. That lets them attach a 7" long suppressor and have a suppressed rifle with the same power as an M110 but still short enough for door kicking.

It makes sense to me why they didn't just issue M110s to every soldier, but it doesn't make sense to me why they feel the need to issue a rifle with the same power as the M110 to every soldier. It's not because of armor, since it doesn't penetrate anything M855A1 doesn't without tungsten, and the tungsten loads are just for SOF. It's not because of range, because it doesn't have the accuracy to capitalize on its extremely high downrange energy.