Thread 64068461

What type of equipment led to the situation in Pokrovsk? Ukraine has some of the most high quality utensils an army could ask (supposedly)

How the fuck is Pokrovsk so defenseless then? The whole situation could've easily been avoided had the forces been spread efficiently to cover the fronts.

That's not even mentioning the constant drone coverage over the whole region, which Ukraine clearly has an advantage in. And yet, Pokrovsk is about to be surrounded.

want me to guess your skin color?

>>64068461 (OP)
>utensils
go bad turdie

>>64068461 (OP)
>Pokrovsk
lmao we all expected it to fall like a year ago. russia is truly worthless

>>64068461 (OP)
Fuck off, NAFO shill.

Pokrovsk is less than an hour's drive from Donestk. Russia took that years ago. You really think the Russian bear would struggle for such an inconsequential objective?

>>64068519
exactly. created a deadly cauldron so that brave z soldiers could randomly drone civilians in pokrovsk and die by the 10s of thousands trying to take open fields to the east of it
all part of the plan

Reducing the russian army to assault ladas and logistics donkies seems to be the kind of equipment it took to force russia to spend a year of concentrated effort to reach the outskirts of a small town 40km from Donetsk. It'll only take another three months and 20-30 thousand casualties before the rag flies over the rubble and the next hyperfortress (10km down the road, prewar population 5300) will come under seige mid 2026. With what? I dunno, bicycles and rusty wheelbarrows would be my guess at a rate of 10 men/m advanced.

>>64068461 (OP)
>How the fuck is Pokrovsk so defenseless then?
What are you talking about? Russia is taking horrific losses taking it, and it has no strategic value. Are you not familiar with defence in depth?

>>64068519
Correct, they took it by the end of last year

>>64068461 (OP)
>How the fuck is Pokrovsk so defenseless then?
Bit over 1 year of daily Chinese cart attacks (buttressed with thousands of KABs and millions of Nork shells, granted) will eventually get you a few miles.
Costs men and carts, leads to a 14:1 loss ratio, but you do get somewhere after a year or so.

"Defenseless" is a bit much, though. The cart-riders would disagree with that.

>>64068461 (OP)
>the most high quality utensils an army could ask
lmao, what a brown thing to say. crawl back to your hole turdie

>>64068578
>ackshually we intended to lose Pokrovsk all along
what a deviously cunning plan the crests have concocted.

>>64068461 (OP)
its 50 km away from the capital of DNR (donetsk people republic)
tis the 44th month of the war, amazing how long it lasted against the "2nd army of the world", are russians even trying? cool drawing

>>64068461 (OP)
I think you might be celebrating a little prematurely, anon

Just in case you wonder what prompted this glavset thread.

>>64068860
>We intended to lose this all along
is not the same as
>You are expending too many resources to take this for what its worth

>>64069825
wait they're STILL stuck in Toretsk?
haven't they been fighting there for years at this point?

>>64068461 (OP)
same time next year then?
I'm beginning to enjoy this annual tradition of posting about the inevitable fall of Pokrovsk

>>64068578
>and it has no strategic value
weird cope but ok
is it because we are entering "porkroast garrison has fulfilled its combat mission" territory?

shitpost troll OP.
but the actual answer to anyone actually interested is zelensky and his stupid not-one-step-back policy not allowing for any form of elastic defense whatsoever + his lack of will to bite the political bullet and ensure a comprehensive mobilization.
which leads to a catastrophic manpower crisis.
which leads to areas of the front being slowly attrited because Ukraine can only spare less than a fireteam's worth to occupy "strongpoints"
which leads to worsening morale which further worsens the manpower crisis, and so on and so forth.

michael kofman is pretty much finally on record stating that Ukraine's military challenges are rooted in policy decisions made above Syrsky, i.e. Zelensky. Drones can only do so much as a defensive force mulitiplier when your political leadership is so fucking incompetent and going against the advice of your military.

>>64069940
>ensure a comprehensive mobilization.

now this is interesting, what were they supposed to do beyond what they already did, which is near total draft from day one three years ago? Add the children 16-21 to the burger patty?

>>64069940
Why are you pretending to be someone else, Alenka? Do the morons at /pol/ normally fall for this shit? You're a waste of a company phone.

What's got the shitskins riled up this time?

>>64069962
>what were they supposed to do beyond what they already did
do a politically unpopular yet necessary general mobilization for your existential war for state survival that ensures all your important positions are getting filled.
all military aged males are inducted into service, throw in females as well at this point for supporting roles, remove most deferments. clamp down on corruption that enables draft dodgers, especially among the elite.

instead Ukraine's political leadership did everything except ensure a general mobilization that only led to further military problems later down the line and left them with an extreme shortage of infantrymen needed to hold defensive lines. shortage means units are unable to rotate out and getting slowly attrited away, further compounding the problem.

Today I will remind them

>>64070039
i don't browse /pol/ nor do I know nor give a shit about this bogeyman of yours that you're seemingly obsessed with going by https://desuarchive.org/_/search/boards/g.k/text/Alenka/. take your meds and don't bother replying to me with your schizophrenia, i'm just gonna hide/filter you if you do.

>>64069940
>elastic defence when your allies will never help you take the territories back
>everything gets destroyed in the process
Morale matters too.

>>64070048
Man these posts are just so retarded. They got starved for weapons for the whole war. Surely filling the trenches with more meat will totally fix everything. It totally won't just lead to more deserters because now there are even more people who don't want to be there.

Maybe their allies need to stop jacking themselves off whenever they send 5 tanks a 18 artillery shells and actually take this war seriously.

>>64068461 (OP)
>How the fuck is Pokrovsk so defenseless then?
Anon the Russians have been attempting to take the city for MORE THAN A YEAR at the cost of tens, perhaps hundreds of thousands of casualties AND THEY STILL HAVEN'T DONE IT
thats about as far from "defenceless" as it gets

>>64068461 (OP)
>How the fuck is Pokrovsk so defenseless
We've gotta be coming up on a year of Pokrovsk-posting and they're still only on the outskirts of the city.

>>64069940
>not allowing for any form of elastic defense whatsoever
>which leads to areas of the front being slowly attired
Anon I think it's possible you're misinterpreting what you're seeing on the map. They've been inflicting WILDLY disproportionate casualties on the Russians in exchange for empty fields and a handful of small cities.

>>64070096
allies not helping enough has no bearing on ukraine's mobilization process being completely dysfunctional nor does it have any bearing on Zelensky's retarded NOT ONE STEP BACK policy that made UA losses in severodonetsk, bakhmut, etc. utterly unnecessary, which leads to further compounding problems later down the line like lack of R&R or thousands of videos of TCC officers basically kidnapping Ukrainian men off the streets because now your manpower situation became so utterly catastrophic due to the political elite not letting the military do its proper job.

THAT is what kills morale over the course of 3 years.
>>64070131
I'm not doubting the ruskies are taking a beating themselves due to their own retardation, but they have a shit ton of meat to throw at the problem and their public is still bloodthirsty some-fucking-how after 3 years of this shit going by their recruitment numbers still going strong, ukraine's the opposite. the attritional math still favors the RU side as far as manpower is concerned

>>64068461 (OP)
>WUNDERWAFFEN NO WIN WARS!?!?!?!?

Lmao retarded nafotroons.

>>64070153
>they have a shit ton of meat to throw at the problem
Right, it's all the other stuff that they're bottlenecking on. BMPs and MT-LBs went from one of the most plentiful armored vehicles in history to critically endangered in the span of a few years.

>>64068578
>no strategic value
This cope never gets old.

>>64070114
They aren't trying to take the city by force you turbo-brainlet, they are encircling it.

Soldiers will NOT stay and fight once they understand they are about to be cutoff from their only line of retreat.

>>64070174
That's what people were saying about Bakhmut before they fought block by block through the city for over a year.

>>64068461 (OP)
>What type of equipment led to the situation in Pokrovsk?
What? What are you even asking?
Ukraine has some of the most high quality utensils an army could ask (supposedly)
No they don't. That's the problem. They with few exceptions recieved cold war scraps. Also
>utensils
>How the fuck is Pokrovsk so defenseless then?
Russians barely reached the suburbs tough.
>The whole situation could've easily been avoided had the forces been spread efficiently to cover the fronts.
No that's bullshit since Russians have more men so logically Ukies can't spread thin but have to held only chokepoints.
>That's not even mentioning the constant drone coverage over the whole region, which Ukraine clearly has an advantage in.
And Russians spam hundreds of mobiks on scooters. Some will get through.
>And yet, Pokrovsk is about to be surrounded.
No, it's very far from that. In fact situation has barely changed during the last month.

>>64068578
Prokorovsk is on the railway iirc so it has very high strategic value for Russians at least.

>>64069825
TZD etc but source would be nice.

>>64069940
Syrsky is a faggot with Soviet doctrines deeply rooted in his mind. I think he has proven to be capable of making bad decisions on his own. He doesn't need Zelensky for that.

>>64070161
BMPs and MT-LBs unironically don't matter when you've got those full blown motorcycle assaults you've been seeing recently.
It sounds crazy as shit but it works for recon teams and quick assaults in a low manpower context, given the threat environment in Ukraine being so drone-heavy
Better speed, better dispersion capability, smaller signature, lower maintenance, lower costs, beats walking.

>>64070181
all those issues predate Syrsky taking Zaluzhnyi's post in early 2024.
bakhmut for an infamous example was a completely avoidable meatgrinder on the UA side. City should've been retreated from once the flanks were lost, but instead political decisions made from Kyiv doubled down on holding bakhmut for months past it made any lick of sense. Cue the casualty ratios going from like 1:10 in Ukraine's favor to something closer to 1:2 at the very end and it still ended with Ukraine losing the damn city.

>>64070178
And? They've encircled dozens of strongpoints and forced dozens of retreats since Bakamutt happened.

>>64070181
A shame Zaluzhny was removed, then again he apparently openly called Sullivan and his team a bunch of stupid faggots, who got ukie soldiers needlessly killed with their bullshit "muh escalashonz" handwringing. The Americans pushed for the summer offensive very hard, only to pretend it was never their idea in the first place once it failed. Once those words got dropped, Zele was presented with an ultimatum from the Americans, and he had to remove potato man, if he wanted the supplies to keep flowing.

>>64070194
It fucking broke Fagner and directly led to Prigo's boogaloo, which gave ukies several months of respite (unfortunately they weren't able to capitalize on that). Pretending Bakhmut was completely worthless is more Sullivan-esque bullshit.

>>64070212
Every city they've taken has been a hamlet compared to Bakhmut or Pokrovsk/Myrnohad
They've still got several months to go at least.

>>64070222
fagner could've been broken down with minimal UA losses had they retreated from a strategically unimportant city like bakhmut and took MUCH better defensive positions in nearby Chasiv Yar once the flanks fell. this was literally obvious to everyone in the know except Zelensky, who decided to make bakhmut's defense politically important for god knows what fucking reason
>which gave ukies several months of respite
your timeline isn't adding up because this was around the same time they launched their counter-offensive. which didn't officially end until later that fall or winter 2023

>>64070183
>full blown motorcycle assaults you've been seeing recently.
The ones that always fail hilariously? What are you even trying for here?

>>64070249
Ukraine also uses those motorcycle assaults extensively, in case you weren't aware.

>>64070237
Bakhmut was winter-2022 - spring-2023. The offensive was summer-autumn 2023. They stopped after a couple months, when they realized they weren't getting anywhere (also the one of the main pushes got blunted by that combined division the Russians sent to stop the breakout around Zaporozhia, IIRC).

>>64070257
Which is why Russia has put out plenty of video evidence of these assaults happening and getting totally fucking annihilated.

>>64070258
Bakhmut officially fell in late May 2023. Ukraine's counteroffensive officially began in early June 2023. There wasn't even a full month's gap in between.

>>64068461 (OP)
Wow, a ruined town mere 35 miles from Donetsk with mere 1500 population and some rail ways. This is what the mighty Puccian was able to accomplish after horrendous losses and irreplaceable equipment lost.

>>64070278
>This is what the mighty Puccian was able to accomplish
Let's not get ahead of ourselves now >>64070114

>>64070283
Which makes it even funnier. The snail probably already went to do a world tour after reaching Paris

>vatniggers made a fake discussion thread about >MUH POKROVSK HYPERFORTRESS (BBC catalog spam gets b& too quickly)
>meanwhile a certain Ukraine-related thread on /pol/ is drowning in CP spamming bots
I hope ziggers do realize that chimpouts like these only confirm Zion Don's words about losses.

>>64070233
>They've still got several months to go at least.
And other hilarious fantasies the kacaps have been telling themselves since the war started.

>>64070114
Aaaaaaaaaaahhhh, I'm cauldroooniing!

>>64070249
you think you saw all of them because you likely only watch ukie vids where they get plowed by FPVs, but some do get through otherwise russians wouldn't be advancing at all

>>64070262
I don't think you understand the concept of survivorship bias.

>>64070263
>officially
Most of the city was already taken over by late March. Only some outskirts remained in ukie control in early April, when Prigo started piecing together his plan. The May announcement was just a confirmation of what had already been known for something like two months.
At any rate, I dislike the idea that Bakhmut was completely useless. It had genuine political ramifications for the Russians (Prigo ultimately getting windowed in the most hilarious way possible, General Armageddon getting sidelined etc.). I consider Sieverodonetsk-Lysychansk to have been much more strategically pointless, especially given the extremely poor defensive situation. Ukies were losing nearly 1k/day during those slaughterfests.

>>64070300
Oh so we're supposed to extrapolate from your wishy feelings, or from their lack of advances? Are you honestly trying to sell dirtbike hail marys as a substitute for mechanized assaults?
Are you taking your AIDS medicine, Marina? You sound like it has finally reached your brain.

>>64070297
Screencapping this to post in January when they're still fighting block by block.

>>64068461 (OP)
>utensils

>>64070323
you are insufferable good luck in your informational bubble where nothing bad ever happens to the team you cheer on
and no, dirtbikes are far from ideal but in an FPV saturated environment it's sensible to trade 1 FPV for 10 guys vs 1 FPV for 1 guy

>>64070330
Kek.

>>64070319
Ukraine was still actively reinforcing Bakhmut up to and even after it fell, they didn't order an actual retreat from that area until it became far, far too late.
Hell they were still counter-attacking towards Bakhmut as part of their summer counteroffensive (they attacked on 3 different axes against the advice of the americans who wanted them to concentrate their forces in the south for a focused assault; Bakhmut direction was one of the 3), they clearly still weren't willing to give up on the damned thing.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_front_of_the_Russian_invasion_of_Ukraine#2023_Ukrainian_counteroffensive_&_renewed_Avdiivka_assaults_(June%E2%80%93October_2023)

Bakhmut WAS useful up until UA loses its flanks in early 2023 & its topographic advantage, supply routes zero'd in on by arty, and the fighting starts happening in the city proper where it was basically a fucking ditch.
There was little sense holding onto the city past arguably february yet that's exactly what Ukraine did (on Zelensky's orders)

>>64069885
>haven't they been fighting there for years at this point?
Standard russian (meat)grindset

>>64070153
>not having enough equipment has no bearing on mobilization
Bold theory, you could have done well in the defense of stalingrad.

>>64070363
insufficient western aid didn't force zelensky and other brown-nosing elites to make dumbfuck feel-good political decisions against the advice of sound military leadership because it was politically inconvenient to them otherwise, that's completely their issue since they can't look beyond re-election prospects or petty power politics

>>64070382
seeing how you're seething ivan, i'd say old zelya made some decent choices all things considered.
russia lost and you should get over it.

>>64070388
russia loses in spite of zelensky, not because of him.
i have less issue with people like zaluzhnyi or brovdi, but they unfortunately aren't the ones making political decisions that supercede everything else

>>64070382
>dumbfuck feel-good political decisions
Except not going for a general mobilization isn't a feel good decision if you have to go:
>One man gets the rifle, the next man gets some bullets. The second man follows the man with the rifle, and when he is shot, picks up the rifle and carries on fighting!
There is nothing to be gained from it.
>re-election prospects
completely irrelevant during the war

>>64070417
ukraine's ammo & aid situation wasn't and isn't as dire nor comparable as some made up movie quote illustrating the immediate chaos of Barbarossa and the red army being caught completely flat-footed due to Stalin being a paranoid retard, don't be stupid.
the biggest issue then and now is lack of infantrymen positions, not issues with supplying them rifles and bullets. don't make me fish out some stupid infographic on how much aid the west and west-aligned states has collectively sent; it's still not enough but it's not literal Enemy At the Gates tier

>>64070335
Good luck avoiding conscription, looking forward to your drone webm debut.

>>64070408
wtf I hate zelensky nao!

>>64070559
>if you don't agree with me you're russian
must be nice to be so simple minded

>>64070434
Are you autistic, or why is using a hyperbole for emphasis such a crazy concept to you?
Yes they do not literally lack small arms to the point that they don't have enough to equip more than half their men. That doesn't mean they have enough to just keep mobilizing more.
Especially because there is more to a division than just giving guys a rifle and a few magazines with rounds.

Your idea of general mobilization is on the same level as saying the Germans should have just produced more StuG IIIs instead of other, let alone heavy, tanks. Completely foolish because it disregards the material situation.

>>64070594
>they don't have enough to equip more than half their men
Categorically false, especially now. The only significant, severe shortage ukraine is facing right now is in regards to air defense.

>>64070603
Then I'm sure you can point me to the numbers/official statements that they now have enough to raise more divisions.