Thread 64068923

No western military is doing anywhere near enough to either counter or produce weaponised drones.

>>64068923 (OP)
Correct. The only solution right now is to hit the drone factories.

Why do they need to? Drone warfare is for poor countries

>>64068956
t. mutt circa 1940

>>64068954
Wait, so the west doesn't produce long-range terror drones, and this is bad how? This is basically barbarism reserved to low-tech dictatorship armies and cargo cults. I can't see a single western country committing civilian drone terror like Russia does.
Also, Russian numbers? What is the source of that? I certainly hope it's not Russia. Give graph sauce. "Manufacturers, media and other sources" sounds like the Russian MOD, RT and Fighterbomber, or rather what's left of his corpse.

>>64069052
Too much retard coping going on in one reply, slow down

>>64068923 (OP)
What do you want me to do about it

>>64068954
Aside from the overflow kremlin propagandists from /pol/ I somwties wonder if there are people out there actually stupid enough to belieev the numbers given out by those gansters on their economy and military. (You) would have to be borderling vegitative state to actually believe anything the current Russian regime says about anything but if there is a number in it that makes them look good you can always corectly guess its mulriplied by anywhere from 10 to 1000 and if there is a fact that is bad for them like their losses that they will divide it by anywhere from 10 to 1000.

If you think whatever shit you took that from has a hotline to how many guided munitions that are being made in the EU and US then you are not just vegitative, your clinically brain dead. The shaheds are worthless terror bombing crap and the iskanders have been an enormous failure, all that thrash about hypersonic blah kinzhal and the fucking patriots can shoot them down with ease. Neither are they drones.

The EU military forces could erase the enitre Russian ground forces and air force at will. All this shit about Russia being a power when it can't even do its terro invasion of a smaller poorer weaker state right on its border. There are 2000 modern fast jet combat aircraft in Europe, every single one of them superior to anything Rusisa can put in the air and airmed with weapons superior to anything Rusisa has. You can stop tyhe conceration right there because if you think some gropnik hiding in a ditch with an FPV donr on fishing line is going to be able to stop the Russian airforce being erased followed by anything with a thermal signature where Russian forces are deployed your fucking insane.

>>64069233
he's right and your slurping russian bullshit and spamming it, Russia has massively depleted its stocks in the last few years and crap like shaheds and kinzhals is not worth a piss against western air forces and AA and neither is Russia itself, which has lost its mindless war and is finished for a generation. The only people who think otherise are fuckwits in red hats who watch russia today and believe it.

>>64068954
>The only solution right now is to hit the drone factories.
We can do that though.

>>64068954
Turkey, the country that makes the Shahed, is in NATO.

What is it with people acting like the US hasn't been using drones for like 30 fucking years now? It wasn't too long ago that people were giving Obama shit for all the brown people he was droning in the middle east because soldiers in the line of fire was politically unpopular. No shit we aren't stockpiling a billion cheap suicide drones, we don't have any need for a billion cheap suicide drones because we have a bunch of expensive ones we call missiles that we use other drones to call in, and also aren't currently in a ratfucked static trench warfare scenario where that many short ranged munitions are necessary.

>>64068923 (OP)
Oh, no. Us Westerners sure would hate it if our enemies heavily- or even exclusively- invested in building enormous numbers of low-end systems based on how they've performed in an environment almost devoid of countermeasures.

>>64069343
>for like 30 fucking years now
More like 50, for ground-attack drones. 60 for ASW drones. And longer than that for reconnaissance.

>>64069330
Shahed is Iranian, not Turkish.

>>64069362
>Oh, no. Us Westerners sure would hate it if our enemies heavily- or even exclusively- invested in building enormous numbers of low-end systems based on how they've performed in an environment almost devoid of countermeasures.
There is a reason you thord worlders live in the third world and it is what it is. No one needs you muh kremlin jeetistan times on youtube thoughts. Russia is approaching vanishinng point and it may as well take on an advanced interstellar alien species as fight the EU or US. All the brown bleating on eath pining for when the USSR gave their father a job torturing his countrymen in a communist dicatorship won't change that one bit. I sometimes think you thiord worlders worship Russia so much because you are just instantly drawn to failure. A few squadrons of Eurofighters would wipe out the Rusisan airforce without breaking a sweat.

>>64069393
Try working on your reading comprehension bro.

>>64069404
fair enough, pain meds kicking in. I just want to kill ziggers, my apologies

>>64069311
we can recognize the Russians are retards without being dogmatic about it " hur dur russia is running out any day now!" stop being a faggot

>>64069409
>I just want to kill ziggers

>>64068923 (OP)
>why aren't Western nations that have become highly reliant on China to basically do fucking anything affordably modernizing their army faster and doing more to prepare for FPV drones in their back yard and or working on the capability to send them in an enemies back yard for offensive defense?
Hmmmmm that's a real mystery OP, sorry but I don't know how to crack that one.

Anyway that's why I try to buy products from Vietnam and Indonesia instead because at least that diversifies the supply chain which honestly you'd think people would conclude is fucked the first time after Covid 19 ran a muck but people nowadays have short fucking attention spans.

>>64068923 (OP)
More dakka
See also Jeune École, Torpedo boats vs torpedo boat DESTROYERS and WW2 Kamikaze countermeasures
>>64069343
The bongs have been playing (and thinking about) around with naval drones on and off since the 30s with the Queen bee drone.

>>64068923 (OP)
You don't know that

>pov: your sky 12 hours after declaring war
what drone do you use in this situation

>>64069744
something that destroys your gay triangle on the ground lmao, just like Russia's bomber fleet (past tense)

>>64068923 (OP)
The German Sky Ranger 30
America has a hydra 70 rocket based drone deleter and a 300kw laser we're working on
Russia uses noobs with shotguns

>>64068923 (OP)
>to either counter or produce weaponised drones
because most drones are embarrassingly easy to counter
it would be monumentally stupendous to mass produce drones which are obsolete in 2-3y

and there are plenty of companies in Europe / USA that COULD mass produce said drone if needed
but why spend unnecessarily on it?

and there's plenty of drone defense either in development or ready to roll out
it's a shame that Skyranger isn't in regular production yet
but in case of an actual war it'd be easy to crank out hundreds at the current state (which is more then enough to void Gerans)

>>64068954
that's so fucking wrong

there are multiple European companies producing drones in small quantities (test phases) which are all missing
like Helsing in Germany, about 1000/year but with a ready production line for 10k/y
and that's just one

>>64070499
>we're working on
you've been working on lasers for years and nothing good to show for it

>another thread of mutts saying ACKSHUALLY everything is currently perfect, i trust the experts
not even fun to bait people this stupid

>>64068923 (OP)
>During the 12-day Iran-Israel "war" the US has spent 100+ THAAD interceptors.
>AKA 25% of all THAAD interceptors ever produced.
>11 THAAD interceptors were produced in 2024.
>12 are ordered to be produced in 2025.
It's not just drones, no western military does fucking anything to prepare for any fucking kind of future warfare.
There is no rational explanation for this, it's mental illness on a civilizational scale.

Skynex and Gepard solved the drone question

>>64070526
at least pic related worked just fine
I don't think the retrofit it into older ships though
and the new one, that should have it aren't coming until 2028+ with the F226

but again
it works and could be installed
but no one wants to because the risk of it being outdated in just a few years

Israel also used their lasers successfully in the last years
but against stone age tech "missiles"
so I don't know if that counts

>>64070538
>There is no rational explanation for this
if... you ignore that western companies are usually actually competent and can build supply chains VERY quick
if... you ignore that drone related warfare evolves fast and no one want to order big for things that are outdated in 2-3y
if... you ignore that western militaries are much more focused on their air forces

>should they make more air defense?
absolutely!
>is there no explanation?
plenty of good reasons why they didn't until now!

>>64070553
Magyar had a talk on this. tldr
nato bases are indefensible against well trained drone groups, he says 4 of his drone teams can destroy one
you can't protect vilnius or warsaw from 1k shaheds, in fact not even germany or france
nato won't do shit after an attack on say baltics because russia can always threaten to escalate more and western leaders are pussies

>>64070526
The HELIOS works, and we have a few delivered energy weapon systems. They're just really expensive.

>>64070541
This. Just more are needed to cover the skies.
>>64070566
>russia can always threaten to escalate more and western leaders are pussies
Escalate with what, nooks? lol

>>64070566
>he says 4 of his drone teams can destroy one
yeah
if they can get close enough

NATO doctrine was (now slowly changing) heavily focused on air superiority
and if you're technological ahead, that works reasonably well (so it'll work against Russia)

slow, big drones are cheap but really easy to intercept
fast, big drones are expensive and Russia only has missiles in this category anyway (which euro tech can intercept, see 100% effective rate of Iris-T)
and for any small drone you need to come near positions, in which case NATO has a reasonable stockpile of air-to-surface missiles

and again this is missing the biggest point
EU / USA have good supply chains and actual, working defense companies that can quickly scale up anything you could ever want

>>64070575
>They're just really expensive.
the main contra point is
that no one wants to commit to a system that might be obsolete with the next gen of drones